[email protected]

Jen and all,
I have to laugh at this whole thread! Not laughing at you, just at the idea
because I love to peel wallpaper, and pick at other things too Sandra!
My parents bought a house about 10 years ago with pink flowered wallpaper in
several different rooms downstairs. My mom hates the wallpaper but had never
done anything about it. She also hates the look of ripped off wallpaper, so
last year I started peeling the wallpaper off in tiny sections in the corner of
rooms when I went to visit. It started innocently enough, I swear, a corner
was coming off by itself and I just "couldn't help myself", and peeled a
little off.
Anyways, now we've started redoing all those rooms one at a time and it's so
nice to be rid of the ugly wallpaper! One room left to go, and it only has a
border on top with pink walls.
But I AM helping her to redo those rooms and she's wanted to for a long time-
so please no one give me too hard a time about my wallpaper peeling. Her
house is looking much nicer now!
My kids have never peeled at it while we were there, but they are always busy
playing with grandma!
As for keeping them from coloring on the walls and what-not, my kids (4 and
1) are welcome to use crayons and markers whenever they want, but they are not
kept where they can get to them, so I don't have to worry too much about the
youngest coloring the wall when I''m not around. We also have an easel and are
planning on getting a large dry erase board that is magnetic too so they can
color and play magnets as well.
Good luck.
Amanda


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Legislative Monitor

I must confess, it's all I can when I visit my sisters house, not to rip off
the loose wallpaper, it drives me crazy. Any little pucker or ripple gives
me this uncontrollable urge to grab and pull. LOL

We took a similar approach with our son. We kept the crayons, markers,
scissors, glitter and glue up high in a closed plastic container. He had a
high chair with a large tray, that was the ONLY place he was allowed to use
those items. It turned into a table and chair, so as he got older he was
allowed to sit at the table with them.

Only once did he ever use his crayons on the wall in his room. He had
scribbled on a huge wall behind his bed. So, if we make a mess, we clean it
up. He and I spent the entire day in his room cleaning the wall. He did
most of the work. :) He never made that mistake again either.

I have a friend who has crayon marks everywhere in his house, walls, doors,
dressers, mirrors...literally everywhere. He doesn't want to hinder his
children's creativity. Now that to me is unacceptable and could never be
tolerated. That child would learn the lesson of his life. LOL

I'm new to this list btw and having a terrible time keeping up with all the
posts and various threads. Interesting reading but the posts just keep
rolling in. How does anyone keep up?


~Annette M. Hall
http://ReliableAnswers.com/
People should be free to find or make for themselves the kinds
of educational experience they want their children to have.
-- John Holt

___________________________


-----Original Message-----
From: Mattamandab@... [mailto:Mattamandab@...]
I started peeling the wallpaper off in tiny sections in the corner of
rooms when I went to visit. It started innocently enough, I swear, a corner
was coming off by itself and I just "couldn't help myself", and peeled a
little off.
As for keeping them from coloring on the walls and what-not, my kids (4 and
1) are welcome to use crayons and markers whenever they want, but they are
not
kept where they can get to them, so I don't have to worry too much about the
youngest coloring the wall when I''m not around. We also have an easel and
are
planning on getting a large dry erase board that is magnetic too so they can
color and play magnets as well.

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/24/2004 1:01:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
LegWatch@... writes:
That child would learn the lesson of his life. LOL<<<<

What would you do?

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

I was wondering the same thing....
~Rebecca


> In a message dated 5/24/2004 1:01:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> LegWatch@... writes:
> That child would learn the lesson of his life. LOL<<<<
>
> What would you do?
>
> ~Kelly

Jon and Rue Kream

>>He and I spent the entire day in his room cleaning the wall. He did
most of the work.

**Wow. How old was he? I bet that's something he'll always remember.

>>That child would learn the lesson of his life. LOL

**If my kids are going to 'learn a lesson' from me I hope it will be that
kindness and compassion are more important than any thing can ever be.
~Rue



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dawn Adams

Annette writes:
Only once did he ever use his crayons on the wall in his room. He had
scribbled on a huge wall behind his bed. So, if we make a mess, we clean it
up. He and I spent the entire day in his room cleaning the wall. He did
most of the work. :) He never made that mistake again either.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I went in my daughters room last summer to find scribbles all over one wall. I was steamed because we'd talked about this. Thankfully she was away and so an hour later while I was washing dishes I finally cooled down. And then I did a delayed double take on the scribbles. They were all geometric shapes with lines drawn through in attempts to find lines of symmetry and/or divide them into fractions (she'd pulled down a workbook and eaten up the fractions section a few days before). She was writing into her space what she'd learned and on second viewing the doodles were beautiful to me. It' s her room, her walls (well, she shares with her brother now) and her joy and knowledge that she wanted to express. We still had a talk and though the occasional doodle is found on the computer tower or kitchen floor she's been careful to keep her doodles to paper. The doodles are still in her room.

I have a friend who has crayon marks everywhere in his house, walls, doors,
dressers, mirrors...literally everywhere. He doesn't want to hinder his
children's creativity. Now that to me is unacceptable and could never be
tolerated. That child would learn the lesson of his life. LOL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well shucks, there is a middle ground is there not? Somewhere between your extreme and his? And yes, you are at one end of the extreme if not even a child's own wall is allowed to be doodled on. Your extreme sees any doodle as a mess, his sees every doodle as art.
Your last sentence, that was a little scary.
Dawn (in NS)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

<< I have a friend who has crayon marks everywhere in his house, walls, doors,
dressers, mirrors...literally everywhere. He doesn't want to hinder his
children's creativity. Now that to me is unacceptable and could never be
tolerated. That child would learn the lesson of his life. LOL >>

Mindful parenting means being careful even of what you think.

Thinking a thought like " That child would learn the lesson of his life. "
is something you might want to even guard against.

But writing it down is a step further than thinking.
Posting it to a list of 1500+ people is a step further than writing it.

If you wrote it without really thinking about what it meant, you might REALLY
want to think about the dangers of not really thinking.

Sandra

queenjane555

--- In [email protected], "Legislative Monitor"
<LegWatch@r...> wrote:
> I'm new to this list btw and having a terrible time keeping up with
>all the posts and various threads. Interesting reading but the
>posts just keep rolling in. How does anyone keep up?

I read the posts online, instead of having them come into my inbox.
That way i can take my time reading them, and skip the ones i dont
need to read...i dont have to worry about deleting anything, or
saving good posts, because its all right here at the website. I am
away from my computer from Monday until Thurs each week, so it
usually takes me a couple days to catch up on all the posts i missed.


Katherine

Deb Lewis

***Only once did he ever use his crayons on the wall in his room. He had
scribbled on a huge wall behind his bed. So, if we make a mess, we clean
it
up. He and I spent the entire day in his room cleaning the wall. He did
most of the work. :) He never made that mistake again either.***

I was twenty nine when I had Dylan and I'd tried for babies a few times
before. I had a lot of time to think about what kind of baby I would
get, <g> what kind of mom I would be, what kind of relationship I hoped
we could have. I decided at some point along the way that a wall would
never be more important than my son's feelings and never more important
than my relationship with him.

***I have a friend who has crayon marks everywhere in his house, walls,
doors,
dressers, mirrors...literally everywhere. He doesn't want to hinder his
children's creativity. Now that to me is unacceptable and could never be
tolerated. That child would learn the lesson of his life. LOL***

I don't know what the "lesson" of my son's life will be, but I know it
will never be that I thought more of a wall than I did of him. I know it
won't be that I thought it was amusing if he was shamed or unhappy.

If I had a wallpaper puller I'd probably help pull. My theory is if the
paper is loose enough to be pulled up then it's already in bad shape and
needs to come off. There was a recent thread about Indigo children
being more sensitive and whatever, I forget... but maybe ~Wallpaper
Children~ are born with the knowledge wallpaper was a terrible idea in
the first place and needs to be eradicated.<g> Hey, if there are Star
children and Crystal children there might as well be Wallpaper children.
Watch for the book.

***That child would learn the lesson of his life. LOL***

People who think they're teaching a child a lesson are almost never
teaching the lesson they think.

Deb L

Priscilla Martinez

**If my kids are going to 'learn a lesson' from me I hope it will be that kindness and compassion are more important than any thing can ever be.
~Rue

you are so right. my husband and i feel that way about our parenting as well as our interactions with people in general. my kids are dd6, ds4, ds3, and ds1.

almost two weeks ago, i put together a trip to a dairy farm for a homeschooling group i'm semi-active in. some activities were structured so that we could participate as a group and when our host was transitioning over to the next activity she was setting up, there were unstructured things for them to do -- pet farm animals, ride trikes around a small track, have some ice cream, etc.

well, between two activities, most of the kids were riding the trikes around the track. when our host said she was ready for the next activity, one of the moms in our group yelled out to the kids (they were about 100 feet away) to come back under the canopy for the butter-churning. she waited about ten seconds, yelled out to them again, and maybe two or three kids (out of about 20) started coming in. i thought these two responded moreso because they saw her stand and wave them in and because she had sent one kid out to get the rest. in any case, about fifteen seconds after the second yell-out, she yelled, "you all have ten seconds to get here and if you're not here by the count of ten, you owe me ten push-ups!" for the record, i felt that 1. her voice wasn't really loud enough to hear all the way over there and 2. the track was between a highway and us and at the moment of her push-up threat, a number of loud 18-wheelers were driving behind where the kids were. so i felt that
they probably didn't hear her. i was within about six feet of her and she sounded slightly louder than loud talking. but sure enough, only 2 or 3 more kids made it within the time, and even those kids just barely made it and had started to run as soon as she finished the threat. so the rest "owed" her push-ups. my kids didn't make it, and although she didn't specifically mention any kids (including hers) by name, i told them to come have a seat with me as they walked up, and definitely was not about to have them participating in her push-up punishment. other moms whose kids were "late" said to their kids, "you heard her -- you owe her ten push-ups. get to it." in that situation, i felt that giving them the benefit of the doubt (ie having compassion) that they didn't hear her was fair. i also don't use corporal punishment with my own kids, let alone anyone else's. and bottom line, who cares?! so it took a whole minute for everyone to come in! so what?! it didn't have to be
a show of power, but became one.



"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day,
that my child may have peace."
Thomas Paine
(1737-1809, Anglo-American political theorist and writer)



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

ummhjm

>>Now that to me is unacceptable and could never be
>> tolerated.

is there nothing our children "tolerate" from or about us? i, for
one, assume that i'm just as
quirky/annoying/whiny/loud/moody/messy/picky/whatever
as my children are. i'm human, and i'm guessing my kids "tolerate"
just about as much from me as i do from them, although i don't feel
as if i'm "tolerating" them in the negative connotation of that word -
- they're my kids and we're a family, so learning to live together is
part of our lives.

peace,
priscilla martinez

Legislative Monitor

Dear Dawn,

It's hard to give a complete run down of events in a short e-mail, they just
are not compatible. :) My son had huge rolls of paper that would pin up on
the wall or lay out on the floor or table for him to use. He had and easel,
and several large dry erase boards, not to mention lots and lots of other
things to write and color on. Our walls were textured, so it was not an
easy job getting the crayon off.

He wasn't yelled at and it wasn't treated as a punishment, I just matter of
factly, told him that since he decide to make the mess he would have to
clean it. I of course did the lions share of the work.

I wish that he had been doing geometry (my favorite) or something else that
made sense but it was just really long squiggly marks the entire length of a
14 foot wall. My son had a huge room with a ball pit, tent, sponge mats,
tubes, computer and more.

My son was being watched by a local homeschool mom for a short time. One
day he complained that he wasn't allowed to chew his gum. I thought it
strange and inquired. The mom didn't like to see gum chewing and didn't
allow it. Now I thought that was unusual...she had 7 kids.

I was raised by southerners, we use a lot of expressions, most of them are
harmless. :)

~Annette M. Hall
http://ReliableAnswers.com/
Education is not merely a means for earning a living or an
instrument for the acquisition of wealth. It is an initiation
into life of spirit, a training of the human soul in the pursuit
of truth and the practice of virtue.
-- Vijaya Lakshmi Pandit

___________________________


-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Adams [mailto:Wishbone@...]

I went in my daughters room last summer to find scribbles all over one
wall. I was steamed because we'd talked about this. Thankfully she was away
and so an hour later while I was washing dishes I finally cooled down. And
then I did a delayed double take on the scribbles. They were all geometric
shapes with lines drawn through in attempts to find lines of symmetry and/or
divide them into fractions (she'd pulled down a workbook and eaten up the
fractions section a few days before). She was writing into her space what
she'd learned and on second viewing the doodles were beautiful to me. It' s
her room, her walls (well, she shares with her brother now) and her joy and
knowledge that she wanted to express.

Well shucks, there is a middle ground is there not? Somewhere between your
extreme and his? And yes, you are at one end of the extreme if not even a
child's own wall is allowed to be doodled on. Your extreme sees any doodle
as a mess, his sees every doodle as art.
Your last sentence, that was a little scary.
Dawn (in NS)

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/24/2004 10:52:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
LegWatch@... writes:
I was raised by southerners, we use a lot of expressions, most of them are
harmless. :)<<<<

I AM a Southerner, And I can assure you that many expressions can be quite
harmful----whether they're from the South or anywhere else. Words are powerful.

Which expression do you feel are harmless?

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dawn Adams

Annette writes:

It's hard to give a complete run down of events in a short e-mail, they just
are not compatible. :) My son had huge rolls of paper that would pin up on
the wall or lay out on the floor or table for him to use. He had and easel,
and several large dry erase boards, not to mention lots and lots of other
things to write and color on. Our walls were textured, so it was not an
easy job getting the crayon off.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
My daughter had lots of alternatives as well, but decorating her wall made it 'bootiful'. It was about decorating and lcaiming her space. I could live with that, especially if it was hard to get off. Whether it came off right then or ten years done the road when he himself wanted it gone would make little difference to me. Not my room.


He wasn't yelled at and it wasn't treated as a punishment, I just matter of
factly, told him that since he decide to make the mess he would have to
clean it. I of course did the lions share of the work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I thought you said he did most of the work? Anyway, I'm still stuck on the mess. For him it was likely not a mess.

I wish that he had been doing geometry (my favorite) or something else that
made sense but it was just really long squiggly marks the entire length of a
14 foot wall. My son had a huge room with a ball pit, tent, sponge mats,
tubes, computer and more.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

But my point was that my daughter's marks had meaning to HER, I just had to recognize it. Whether they were geometry or squiggles they were her work and art in her room and for me to come in, call it a mess and get rid of it would have been disrespectful to say the least. My daughter's room is her room. Her squiggles are her squiggles. You crossed boundaries both by insulting his work by calling it a mess and by excercising complete control over his space (Most kids only get their rooms as their personal space, is it fair to control that in light of the fact that you have the whole house?)


I was raised by southerners, we use a lot of expressions, most of them are
harmless. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I was raised in Nova Scotia, a place famous for its colourful language as well. But I don't use that colourful language online because it's a different medium and misunderstandings are common when the language isn't clear. If you're using expressions instead of saying what you really mean maybe you should rethink that.

Dawn (in NS)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

on 5/24/04 8:21 PM, Legislative Monitor at LegWatch@...
wrote:

> I wish that he had been doing geometry (my favorite) or something else that
> made sense but it was just really long squiggly marks the entire length of a
> 14 foot wall. My son had a huge room with a ball pit, tent, sponge mats,
> tubes, computer and more.

It was important enough for him to do it, regardless of what else he had.

If it was done out of boredom, it was a way of communicating that regardless
of what he had around him, there was something missing. Often it's one on
one attention. But it takes being able to *listen* to what they're "saying"
(with words and actions) to figure out what they need. To set aside what we
want them to think and believe and feel. And listen to what they're actually
saying.

Joyce

J. Stauffer

<<<< I of course did the lions share of the work.>>>>

I thought you posted he did most of the work. How did your doing the work
teach him "the lesson of his life?"

I'm confused.

Julie S.---also from the South
----- Original Message -----
From: "Legislative Monitor" <LegWatch@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 7:21 PM
Subject: RE: [UnschoolingDiscussion] wallpaper peelers, was gentle parenting


> Dear Dawn,
>
> It's hard to give a complete run down of events in a short e-mail, they
just
> are not compatible. :) My son had huge rolls of paper that would pin up
on
> the wall or lay out on the floor or table for him to use. He had and
easel,
> and several large dry erase boards, not to mention lots and lots of other
> things to write and color on. Our walls were textured, so it was not an
> easy job getting the crayon off.
>
> He wasn't yelled at and it wasn't treated as a punishment, I just matter
of
> factly, told him that since he decide to make the mess he would have to
> clean it. I of course did the lions share of the work.
>
> I wish that he had been doing geometry (my favorite) or something else
that
> made sense but it was just really long squiggly marks the entire length of
a
> 14 foot wall. My son had a huge room with a ball pit, tent, sponge mats,
> tubes, computer and more.
>
> My son was being watched by a local homeschool mom for a short time. One
> day he complained that he wasn't allowed to chew his gum. I thought it
> strange and inquired. The mom didn't like to see gum chewing and didn't
> allow it. Now I thought that was unusual...she had 7 kids.
>
> I was raised by southerners, we use a lot of expressions, most of them are
> harmless. :)
>
> ~Annette M. Hall
> http://ReliableAnswers.com/
> Education is not merely a means for earning a living or an
> instrument for the acquisition of wealth. It is an initiation
> into life of spirit, a training of the human soul in the pursuit
> of truth and the practice of virtue.
> -- Vijaya Lakshmi Pandit
>
> ___________________________
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dawn Adams [mailto:Wishbone@...]
>
> I went in my daughters room last summer to find scribbles all over one
> wall. I was steamed because we'd talked about this. Thankfully she was
away
> and so an hour later while I was washing dishes I finally cooled down. And
> then I did a delayed double take on the scribbles. They were all geometric
> shapes with lines drawn through in attempts to find lines of symmetry
and/or
> divide them into fractions (she'd pulled down a workbook and eaten up the
> fractions section a few days before). She was writing into her space what
> she'd learned and on second viewing the doodles were beautiful to me. It'
s
> her room, her walls (well, she shares with her brother now) and her joy
and
> knowledge that she wanted to express.
>
> Well shucks, there is a middle ground is there not? Somewhere between
your
> extreme and his? And yes, you are at one end of the extreme if not even a
> child's own wall is allowed to be doodled on. Your extreme sees any doodle
> as a mess, his sees every doodle as art.
> Your last sentence, that was a little scary.
> Dawn (in NS)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/24/04 8:52:35 PM, LegWatch@... writes:

<< I wish that he had been doing geometry (my favorite) or something else that
made sense but it was just really long squiggly marks the entire length of a
14 foot wall. >>

It's a hard but vital thing for unschoolers to accept that just because
something doesn't make sense to the parent doesn't mean it's senseless. And just
because the child is doing our favorite thing doesn't mean he's "finally" doing
something worthwhile.

An interesting aspect of attachment parenting is recognizing the profound
difference between the child and the parent at the same time.

Marty was listening to John Roberts and Tony Barrand, some of my favorite
traditional musicians, having found a homemade tape (I made for my husband years
ago from albums) somewhere around the house. Traditional English Christmas
stuff. I had a little thrill, and told him we had more of their stuff if he
wanted.

But if I had written this on this list:
"I wish that he had been listening to English folk music (my favorite) or
something else that made sense but it was just modern stuff I didn't recognize
the entire audio-length of a14 foot room, "
people would be pretty quick to pint out that just because I didn't recognize
it didn't mean it didn't make sense.

-=-My son was being watched by a local homeschool mom for a short time. One
day he complained that he wasn't allowed to chew his gum. I thought it
strange and inquired. The mom didn't like to see gum chewing and didn't
allow it. Now I thought that was unusual...she had 7 kids.-=-

Is this about an unschooler?
If not, why bring the story here?

-=-I was raised by southerners, we use a lot of expressions, most of them are
harmless. :)-=-

I was raised by Texans whose own grandparents had at various points moved
there from places like Alabama and Virginia. They used a lot of expressions
designed to keep children small and powerless and afraid.

Sandra

Jon and Rue Kream

>>He did
most of the work. :)

and

>>I of course did the lions share of the work.

**Which is it?

>>I wish that he had been doing geometry (my favorite) or something else
that
made sense

**It must have made sense to him. ~Rue



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kimberly Fry

You might try faux finishes on the walls in place of paper. Sponging is really easy. And it can look like paper. The easiest way would be to use one color in three different shades (light, medium, and darker). I would stay away from ultra-deep colors.

At 3 yrs. my son helped me to sponge a bedroom and a bathroom. We even put his handprint on the wall, but you had to know where to look to see it with the sponging.

Let me know if you'd like "how-to" info.



---------------------------------
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Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

> I'm new to this list btw and having a terrible time keeping up with
>all the posts and various threads. Interesting reading but the
>posts just keep rolling in. How does anyone keep up?>>


The list can get a lot busier than this! I keep up by keeping this list at
the heart of my journey to being a better parent.
Sure, I'm on the CaliUnschooling list, but we only get about one post a
month, and often even those are duplicated here being announcement types.
I'm on my local group's list but that is usually about upcoming events or
"did anyone pick up my....". With other interests, I do as someone else
suggested and stay "No-Mail" until I want to visit their websites.
There have been times when I am overwhelmed with other things to do, and
deadlines, so I go no-mail temporarily.

Robyn L. Coburn


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