Chris and Jen SEALS

Okay, I'm going nuts and I have NO clue how to handle it! We JUST bought
this house 1 April and the kids (the little ones 3, 2, 1) are tearing off my
wallpaper! Not just a little. In the kitchen, my bathroom AND in the
office. At first, I understood the kitchen problem. The wallpaper met at a
corner and was slightly pulling away from the wall. Chloe (19mo) was the
first to start pulling. In my bathroom, Caeleb and Chloe were in the
bathtub and I was cleaning the bathroom. In the same dang room with them
but scrubbing the shower and didn't catch what they were doing until it was
far too late. Office, no one watches them in there...I *thought* there was
no need because the room is empty save two bookcases. That room's not bad
but still torn in a few places.

I need suggestions before I rip their hair out! RIght now that seems like a
logical consequence to me (they ripped off the wallpaper, I rip out their
hair...fair, right???) so obviously I've gone off the deep end. lol

Jennifer
For those of you not used to my sarcasm, I have no plans to pull out their
hair, nor do I feel it would be logical to do so.

I'll keep telling myself that anyway until someone gives me a better idea.
;)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kate Sitzman

Well, if it were me, I'd help them finish the job and then paint the room -
but I'm not a wallpaper person!

Kate

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris and Jen SEALS [mailto:jmcseals@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Need some gentle parenting help here!!!

Okay, I'm going nuts and I have NO clue how to handle it! We JUST bought
this house 1 April and the kids (the little ones 3, 2, 1) are tearing off my

wallpaper! Not just a little. In the kitchen, my bathroom AND in the
office. At first, I understood the kitchen problem. The wallpaper met at a

corner and was slightly pulling away from the wall. Chloe (19mo) was the
first to start pulling. In my bathroom, Caeleb and Chloe were in the
bathtub and I was cleaning the bathroom. In the same dang room with them
but scrubbing the shower and didn't catch what they were doing until it was
far too late. Office, no one watches them in there...I *thought* there was
no need because the room is empty save two bookcases. That room's not bad
but still torn in a few places.

I need suggestions before I rip their hair out! RIght now that seems like a

logical consequence to me (they ripped off the wallpaper, I rip out their
hair...fair, right???) so obviously I've gone off the deep end. lol

Jennifer
For those of you not used to my sarcasm, I have no plans to pull out their
hair, nor do I feel it would be logical to do so.

I'll keep telling myself that anyway until someone gives me a better idea.
;)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com

Yahoo! Groups Links

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/22/04 10:58:30 AM, jmcseals@... writes:

<< We JUST bought
this house 1 April >>

April fool's?

No.

Well at least you bought it and you aren't renting! <g>

In New Mexico there's a tradition of painting the bottom half of a room a
different color, or just repainting that part, and sometimes up and around a
door. I don't know if it's common in plastered-house cultures or not. But maybe
you could do that. Paint over where they've torn, in some artistic-sense
way, with an edge between the paint and the wallpaper they can't get to.

They make corner-keeper things out of plastic, like molding for corners.
Maybe you could get some of that for the kitchen corner.

Maybe save all your cardboard boxes that have corrugated cardboard with a
glossy-printed outside paper, and let them peel and peel and peel!

Holly's rats like to peel cardboard.
I like to peel cardboard.

Sandra

the_clevengers

Your kids are so young, probably too young to really be able to
resist doing something as fun as peeling wallpaper for the sake of
some nebulous goal like "keeping the house looking nice". I'm with
the person who said they'd help peel it all off and then paint. but
then, I'm not a wallpaper person either :-) Short of doing that, it's
like anything else at this age that you don't want them to get into,
you either have to find a way to make it impossible or you have to
supervise them while they're around it. They're not at the ages, and
might not be for awhile, where you can expect their impulse control
to stop them from it. You might also think about offering some
similar sensory experiences as distractions. My daughter really likes
me to put Elmer's glue on her hands and then she can peel it off.
Tearing paper into strips is also fun, or peeling cardboard apart.

Blue Skies,
-Robin-


--- In [email protected], "Chris and Jen SEALS"
<jmcseals@m...> wrote:
> Okay, I'm going nuts and I have NO clue how to handle it! We JUST
bought
> this house 1 April and the kids (the little ones 3, 2, 1) are
tearing off my
> wallpaper! Not just a little. In the kitchen, my bathroom AND in
the
> office. At first, I understood the kitchen problem. The wallpaper
met at a
> corner and was slightly pulling away from the wall. Chloe (19mo)
was the
> first to start pulling. In my bathroom, Caeleb and Chloe were in
the
> bathtub and I was cleaning the bathroom. In the same dang room
with them
> but scrubbing the shower and didn't catch what they were doing
until it was
> far too late.

Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema

Ripped wallpaper *can* be fixed.

If it's just a small tear, use thin elmers glue (don't gob it on!) and
smooth the edges. If it's vinyl wallpaper, sometimes you can tape the
ripped edges together while the glue is drying - but if it's thinner or
less-scrubbable wallpaper, the tape will peel off the top layer of paper,
making a bigger mess. Be careful.

If it's a big piece of wallpaper that was peeled and you don't have spare
samples of the wallpaper out in the garage to repair the full strip, then
you have to do a little more. Smooth the scrap so it doesn't
curl. Thin-elmers the entire back of the scrap and paste it carefully back
on the wall. If you're lucky, the wallpaper will be colored and the scrap
edges will show white. This is where you get crafty.

When the scrap is dried and adhered to the wall (a couple of days?), grab a
(watercolor) marker with a very fine tip (get some nice ones!) and
color-match. If you don't have quite the right color, go a little
lighter. Lightly color in that white edge. The secret is to do a good job
color matching the paper!

I had a wonderful paperhanger who showed me that bacon-saving
technique. He carries a whole pallette of different watercolor
artist-quality markers. I've repaired kid-dings in all of my wallpaper'd
rooms. Honestly, you can't pick out the damage.

Take your time and relax. Think of it as an arts and crafts project! (grin)
HeidiWD

[email protected]

If it is worth fixing...if the paper is coming up that easily, and was already peeling off in lots of places, perhaps it has come to the end of it's useful life. What about using it as a drawing board and then pulling it up. Of course if it then sticks you have to steam it off or risk dammage to the wall.

Of course that is home decorating instead of gentle parenting advice. ;) With Jayn painting on the wall and cupboards in the bathroom, I decided the conflict wasn't worth it. I clean it periodically, and we will repaint before we move (renters). However I did ask her to restrict her painting to the one place - the bathroom - and not to paint on the unfinished wood, explaining why. So far she has been so happy to paint in one place, that she has not gone anywhere else. Also she loves to help me clean, scrubbing with a nail brush and rinsing with a wet cloth.

Robyn L. Coburn


> Ripped wallpaper *can* be fixed.
>

Chris and Jen SEALS

Well, if it were me, I'd help them finish the job and then paint the room -
but I'm not a wallpaper person!


That's what I'd like to do, but there's no texture on any of the walls under
the paper. Ugh. I have no idea where to begin. I HATE wallpaper. Guess
that's what you get for buying a house built in the 80's. Wallpaper heaven.
Sheesh...

Jennifer



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alyce

--- In [email protected], "Chris and Jen SEALS"
<jmcseals@m...> wrote:
Guess
> that's what you get for buying a house built in the 80's.
Wallpaper heaven.
> Sheesh...


We had a couple similar situations... most recently, the paint in a
place we lived prior peeled off in sheets. I ended up peeling right
along with the kids. It's very addictive. All was well in the
end. The former paintjob was still there. lol.

As for wallpaper- we owned a house some years ago in VA. We had a
blast peeling the wallpaper... then we repainted. The kids had a
whole wall with which they could do anything they wanted. Give them
some paint and paintbrushes and let them go nuts. Maybe they could
even paint over and update every few months... I don't know.
Fortunately, you don't like the wallpaper anyway, do what you can to
make it fun. Once it's gone there won't be anything to peel?

Alyce

Kristi

I've peeled a lot of wallpaper in my time. Sometimes, but not
always, a strong solution of either vinegar or fabric softener will
help. As far as repainting, when my kids were really little (well
littler) and we were renting they were happy to paint water onto the
walls with a small brush -- it's "magic paint" that turns the same
color as whatever you paint it.

Have fun!
Kristi

--- In [email protected], "Chris and Jen SEALS"
<jmcseals@m...> wrote:
> Well, if it were me, I'd help them finish the job and then paint
the room -
> but I'm not a wallpaper person!
>
>
> That's what I'd like to do, but there's no texture on any of the
walls under
> the paper. Ugh. I have no idea where to begin. I HATE
wallpaper. Guess
> that's what you get for buying a house built in the 80's.
Wallpaper heaven.
> Sheesh...
>
> Jennifer
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Chris and Jen SEALS

In the kitchen and bathroom, it is not fixable. They tore it off in
shreads. The other room I will fix but I guess I have some
mudding/texturing to do in the other two rooms. I think my main anxiety
over this is what my husband will do. He is far less gentle and
understanding than I am and he has no concept that they are just curious and
hey, it's fun to do! One area we do NOT see eye to eye on. Thankfully, I
have another month before he gets home so I guess he can just gripe at me
for redecorating. ;)

Jen



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

J. Stauffer

<<<<That's what I'd like to do, but there's no texture on any of the walls
under
> the paper. Ugh. I have no idea where to begin. >>>

Our house had the ugliest wallpaper I had ever seen in the master bath when
we moved in. Dark paneling and bright, vivid, eye-watering blue wallpaper,
bathtub, sink, toilet and tile. Dh about barfed.

When we took off the wallpaper and paneling, the walls had no texture. Dh
got the texture you put on ceilings and we slathered the walls with it with
a trowel. Then we painted the walls a creamy yellow and sponged on a misty
green. It is a lovely room.

Go talk to the guys at Home Depot, watch Changing Rooms or Trading Spaces,
check out the interior of ethnic restaurants.

Perhaps your kids were just letting you know that they didn't like the wall
paper either.

Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris and Jen SEALS" <jmcseals@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 5:29 PM
Subject: RE: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Need some gentle parenting help here!!!


> Well, if it were me, I'd help them finish the job and then paint the
room -
> but I'm not a wallpaper person!
>
>
> That's what I'd like to do, but there's no texture on any of the walls
under
> the paper. Ugh. I have no idea where to begin. I HATE wallpaper. Guess
> that's what you get for buying a house built in the 80's. Wallpaper
heaven.
> Sheesh...
>
> Jennifer
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[email protected]

My little ones did the same thing in their bedroom.
Was my favorite wallpaper....was gorgeous....put up by my parents....
Nice HUGE piece ripped off.
We just let them rip off the rest....! This was a great video. You should have seen the smiles on those faces.
Then we painted. Took a long time, but was fine when done.
:)
Keep smiling!
Ann


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

queenjane555

--- In [email protected], "Chris and Jen SEALS"
<jmcseals@m...> wrote:
> That's what I'd like to do, but there's no texture on any of the
walls under
> the paper. Ugh. I have no idea where to begin. I HATE
wallpaper. Guess
> that's what you get for buying a house built in the 80's.
Wallpaper heaven.
> Sheesh...
>
> Jennifer


I saw something really cool in a decorating magazine, i *think* it
was Martha Stewart but not sure. I got the mag at Home Depot a week
or two ago. You can get lots and lots of pegboard (i think thats what
its called...like you'd find tools hanging on in a garage), paint it
cool funky colors, or whatever color goes with the room, and cover
the walls (or part of a wall)with it. They showed a kitchen, and had
baskets hanging on the pegboard to hold kitchen supplies, food like
onions or potatoes, etc. The one in the bathroom had baskets hanging
to hold towels and a mesh bag with bath toys. The coolest one was for
a family room, and they displayed kids' artwork on it. All
changeable, very versatile and would hide an ugly wall. I can't wait
to to this when i get my own place. And you can always take it down
if you get sick of it.

Just an idea! I never wouldve been able to have wallpaper when Seamus
was a toddler.

Katherine

Danielle Conger

I'm with all those who've said peel it and paint instead. My kids are little
(6, 5 and 4) and my father in law thought I was nuts 3 years ago when I
refused to paint my walls with anything less than satin. But let me tell you
how easy those walls are to wipe down! Flat doesn't wipe at all. Satin picks
up the light and reflects it nicely, making the room appear a bit bigger,
though it does reveal imperfections more readily because of this.

Why do the walls need to be textured? I'm not sure what this really means.
Lots of plaster walls had no texture--the "orange peel" texture of walls in
newer houses is a pretty new thing. Or maybe it's a regional thing?

At any rate, I'm totally anti-wallpaper unless you have some major problems
that need to be covered up. There are just so many really neat things that
can be done with paint these days. Check out the faux rough plaster finishes
if you're looking for some texture--those are pretty cool, especially when
done in Mediterranean colors.

--Danielle

http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/23/04 7:16:05 AM, danielle.conger@... writes:

<< Lots of plaster walls had no texture--the "orange peel" texture of walls in

newer houses is a pretty new thing. Or maybe it's a regional thing? >>

Could be regional, but the lack of texture of plastered walls (when someone
had consciously tried to make the wall look as flat as possible) is nothing
like the lack of texture of sheetrock/dry wall.

There are thicker paints, and some people add sand or stuff to the paint.
Someone will probably come and explain it better.

Sandra

the_clevengers

--- In [email protected], "Danielle Conger"
<danielle.conger@c...> wrote:
> Why do the walls need to be textured? I'm not sure what this really
means.
> Lots of plaster walls had no texture--the "orange peel" texture of
walls in
> newer houses is a pretty new thing. Or maybe it's a regional thing?

In our house, the texture in the walls helps enormously with
acoustical dampening. We have high ceilings and an open floor plan.
The house tends to be noisy as it is, but the guy who built our house
says it's nothing like what it was like before they put the texture
on the walls, it absorbs a lot of noise. Unfortunately, ours is very
rough and also takes the skin off of our elbows on a regular basis.
You don't want to fall against one of our walls! It's also nearly
impossible to hammer a nail through, so there aren't many pictures
hanging up at our house, which is a bummer. If it was my decision,
I'd have texture, but not one so rough!

Blue Skies,
-Robin-

Elizabeth Hill

** Just an idea! I never wouldve been able to have wallpaper when Seamus
was a toddler.**

I'm sympathetic to the toddlers because I remember the compulsion that I
had to lightly scratch away my son's cradle cap when he was an infant.
It was pretty clear he didn't like me scritching it off of him. And yet
I would try to sneakily continue rubbing it off of him when he was
asleep in my arms. My defense is that the grooming impulse is a strong
biological pull in primates. Peeling off wallpaper might be appealing
in the same way.

Betsy

Shannon

I don't know if it's regional or not. But our whole house has smooth walls
and we love it. We built the house almost 5 years ago and consciencly made
the decision for smooth walls. We live in Arizona and here you can find all
kinds of textures on the walls depending on the age of the house.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sandra


In a message dated 5/23/04 7:16:05 AM, danielle.conger@... writes:

<< Lots of plaster walls had no texture--the "orange peel" texture of
walls in

newer houses is a pretty new thing. Or maybe it's a regional thing? >>

Could be regional, but the lack of texture of plastered walls (when
someone
had consciously tried to make the wall look as flat as possible) is
nothing
like the lack of texture of sheetrock/dry wall.

There are thicker paints, and some people add sand or stuff to the paint.
Someone will probably come and explain it better.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mamaaj2000

--- In [email protected], "Chris and Jen SEALS"
<jmcseals@m...> wrote:
> Well, if it were me, I'd help them finish the job and then paint
the room -
> but I'm not a wallpaper person!
>
>
> That's what I'd like to do, but there's no texture on any of the
walls under
> the paper. Ugh. I have no idea where to begin.

So you can all go to Home Depot or wherever and ask what to do! Maybe
if the kids are involved with picking new wallpaper and putting it
up, they won't tear it off again...or get the cheapest wallpaper they
have and tell yourself it's 'art supplies' when they rip it off again.
Can you get wall paper odds and ends??

--aj

I HATE wallpaper. Guess
> that's what you get for buying a house built in the 80's.
Wallpaper heaven.
> Sheesh...
>
> Jennifer
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/23/04 10:16:28 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:

<< Peeling off wallpaper might be appealing >>

"The walls they are a-peeling."

People do have the grooming instinct, and it's one of those
socially-incorrect instincts we try to extinguish. My kids are good at finding ticks or scabs
on dogs and cats. Holly likes to scratch my back and have hers scratched.
She likes to paint her fingernails and then chip the polish back off.

Sandra

Chris and Jen SEALS

While I agree with much of what is being said here, I feel like I should
chime in on one point that bothers me. I'm all for having the kids help me
repair the damage, and I understand and agree that there is nothing wrong
with *their* reasons for what they did. However, as much as I want to
believe that allowing them complete freedom to explore their wallpaper
peeling is this great project we can all go on together, when exactly do
they understand respect for other people's property? I mean afterall, I
didn't like the wallpaper to begin with, right?

Let's say this were someone else's home we were visiting? In my home, when
the kids draw on the walls I can grab the Mr. Clean eraser and we can clean
it off together. My family or friends probably won't feel like it's okay if
my kids do that in their homes. This has actually happened before with a
marker at Grandma's house. I'm sorry but at some point there does come a
time when it's NOT ok for the kids to do whatever they wish in the name of
artistic expression, instinct or whatever.

When I hear answers like this I have to wonder if these are just ideals that
some people here hold or things you actually practice in your home??? At
what point does it become important to you that you not have to choose
between having your walls look like shit and dad getting mad or spending
money to replace wallpaper or paint that you may or may not have on a
recurring basis?

Some of the answers I've read to this thread seem a bit lofty to me and
frankly, I have a hard time believing them, which is why I'm asking thse
questions.

I have no problem having my kids help me replace the wallpaper or paint the
wall, etc. I do think there is something odd about just encouraging them to
tear up the walls in the entire house just because I don't like the
wallpaper and they think it's fun, interesting or whatever.

I do think that they started this whole mess because there were a few places
where the wallpaper was bubbling away from the wall. Chloe's only 19 months
old! Then the boys see what fun it is and there ya go. But I also know
that given a very similar situation, there is a very strong likelyhood that
the kids will now do this somehwere else. It's happened before with drawing
on walls and pulling books off shelves.

The bottom line is that regardless of how I feel about the wallpaper...and I
DO hate it...we just bought this house two months ago and I want a house
that looks nice. So does my husband, so do my older girls. Is it really
okay (for those of you who said as much) with you to continue to buy
wallpaper? Is it really okay with you if they tear things up in your house
because they like to peel things? I mean, what if we were talking about a
child popping holes in the wall with a hammer because he likes to and he has
seen you hammering nails into the fence and decides he can try that out on
your living room wall...or your dinner plates, or your tv???

I'm really confused.

Jen



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Chris and Jen SEALS

Danielle,

The reason I'd have to texture the walls is there is nothing under the paper
but drywall paper. Looks like a paper sack from the grocery store. It
would be like putting up paper sacks and trying to paint them. When they
had this house built they never painted, just put up wallpaper. I'm
definitely getting rid of it and painting but its going to be a huge job!

I do like the stucco(?) idea for my kitchen. I love the old world/tuscan
look that is so popular right now. Not sure about my bathroom. I may
actually end up repapering it and bathing the kids upstairs. I really loved
the way my bathroom looks, even with the paper.

Jennifer



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Chris and Jen SEALS

I'm trying to be sympathetic, honestly! I just don't want my kids tearing
up the walls! LOL

I think the only reason I haven't lost it is that I can think of several
examples of things I do like scratching at cradle cap or scratching off
those little pin dot scabs on my son' head.

My problem is while I understand, and I do, I also don't want this to be a
continual problem. We've been dealing with this for over a year now. In
our last house (rented) they pulled the paper of their room and the kitchen.
We put up wallpaper in their room SEVEN times. (border actually). I had
no choice because it was a rental. When we moved out in April, they charged
us $796.49 to replace the kitchen paper!! I kid you not! So this isn't
just a one time thing and it's not cute anymore. I like the idea of
offering the something they can tear up. I'll have to try that. Totally
forgot about the glue thing, too. I used to LOVE to peel glue off my hands.
Still do if I spill a little! :)

Thanks,
Jen





I'm sympathetic to the toddlers because I remember the compulsion that I
had to lightly scratch away my son's cradle cap when he was an infant.
It was pretty clear he didn't like me scritching it off of him. And yet
I would try to sneakily continue rubbing it off of him when he was
asleep in my arms. My defense is that the grooming impulse is a strong
biological pull in primates. Peeling off wallpaper might be appealing
in the same way.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/23/2004 12:16:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:
>>My defense is that the grooming impulse is a strong
biological pull in primates. Peeling off wallpaper might be appealing
in the same way.<<
*********************************************
I am always having to resist picking zits on my husband and kids. Sometimes
they'll lay down on my lap and ask me to, especially on their backs, and I'm
in heaven....I know, wierd...funny thing is, through the years, they've come to
love having me do it! Even my husband who was majorly anti-zit picking when
we first met.

I also get a lot of satisfaction from flea-combing our dogs, or picking ticks
off of them. :o)

Nancy B.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/23/2004 1:43:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jmcseals@... writes:
>>>When I hear answers like this I have to wonder if these are just ideals
that
some people here hold or things you actually practice in your home??? At
what point does it become important to you that you not have to choose
between having your walls look like shit and dad getting mad or spending
money to replace wallpaper or paint that you may or may not have on a
recurring basis?

Some of the answers I've read to this thread seem a bit lofty to me and
frankly, I have a hard time believing them, which is why I'm asking thse
questions.<<<
Jen - honestly, it has never mattered to me to have a really nice house. We
built our house ourselves, and purposely bought most of the fixtures used, or
made them ourselves with rough wood or scraps. There's almost nothing new in
our home, I shop at garage sales or out of the paper, and I accept things
people give me gladly. I made up my mind a LONG time ago when we bought a brand
new couch and 2 days later my 1 year old (now 18) drew all over it with
crayon, that there will be a day when my house will be very clean, very neat, and
possibly a little more stylish (though I don't really care), but that time is
not now while I've got kids in the home. This attitude has helped tremendously
since we started doing foster care. I'd rather do my best to have it clean,
somewhat organized, and comfortable.

Years ago I was good friends with a very conservative Mennonite family, and
ever since then, I've never cared much about "things" or appearances. Their
home was so plain, their furniture was old, but it was comfortable and clean. I
admire St. Francis a lot, too, and his simplicity, and wish I could live my
life more like he did.

If someone in our home purposely destroyed something that belonged to someone
else, we would expect them to replace it, or fix it, as best they
can,...that's just kindness and caring. We talk about how it makes each other feel when
we don't take care of something that belongs to someone else. I guess if
someone punched a hole in a wall, I'd have them patch it. One of our kids tore
the side off a mattress, and I had them sew it back up with a needle and thread.
I have a few keepsakes from my grandparents and parents that I keep put up.
I don't know how to do that with a wall though! I think I'd get rid of the
wallpaper and put up washable paint.

Nancy B.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elizabeth Hill

** Some of the answers I've read to this thread seem a bit lofty to me and
frankly, I have a hard time believing them, which is why I'm asking thse
questions.**

I think you tend to get the "higher" and "loftier" answers suggested
because the people who had the lower answers, for example those who
"lost it" when their kids messed up walls are not proud of themselves
won't probably recommend that path to others. And that's
understandable. Thus, the answers that are posted ARE "better than
average" or higher or loftier than, say, run of the mill parenting.
We're all trying to be better. And it's natural for the posts here to
be skewed towards the better answers.

Betsy

PS
** Is it really
okay (for those of you who said as much) with you to continue to buy
wallpaper?**

Go back and read the responses again. I think most people suggested
that you replace the wallpaper with something like paint that would be
less tempting for little fingers to destroy.

** I mean, what if we were talking about a
child popping holes in the wall with a hammer because he likes to and he
has
seen you hammering nails into the fence and decides he can try that out on
your living room wall...or your dinner plates, or your tv???**

That wasn't the question that you posted. Let's stay away from the
hypotheticals. It's a lot more beneficial to talk about real behavior.

mamaaj2000

I'm very new to even thinking about unschooling, but since I
suggested buying lots of wallpaper and letting them rip, I'll chime
in.

I'm learning to let my kids do things that I wouldn't have considered
a couple months ago. Seeing situations as opportunities to explore.
You posted about wallpaper you don't like on an unschooling group, so
you got unschooling answers that weren't about trying to stop the
kids.

--- In [email protected], "Chris and Jen SEALS"
<jmcseals@m...> wrote:
when exactly do
> they understand respect for other people's property?

Not at 3, 2, and 1, IMHO.


> When I hear answers like this I have to wonder if these are just
ideals that
> some people here hold or things you actually practice in your
home??? At
> what point does it become important to you that you not have to
choose
> between having your walls look like shit and dad getting mad or
spending
> money to replace wallpaper or paint that you may or may not have on
a
> recurring basis?

Since we don't own our house, I couldn't let my kids do much that was
destructive. So I'd distract, divert, involve them in the clean up
and see if we could come up with something similar that they would
enjoy. Maybe wallpapering some plywood and ripping it off. Maybe
something completely different.

>
> Some of the answers I've read to this thread seem a bit lofty to me
and
> frankly, I have a hard time believing them, which is why I'm asking
thse
> questions.

Is it really
> okay (for those of you who said as much) with you to continue to
buy
> wallpaper? Is it really okay with you if they tear things up in
your house
> because they like to peel things?

It wouldn't be okay with me today, but learning about unschooling is
encouraging me to open my eyes to look at each situation from the
kids' point of view and to see if we can find an answer that's okay
with both of us. My daughter is 17 mo. and really likes to use pens
and crayons. I don't let her draw on the walls, but have broadened my
list of places to draw. She now gets all the junk mail, I've taped
paper to the underside of the table, to the walls, etc. Given her art
supplies that she's "too young" for. I still make sure she's not
destroying anything important or valuable or eating stuff.

I mean, what if we were talking about a
> child popping holes in the wall with a hammer because he likes to
and he has
> seen you hammering nails into the fence and decides he can try that
out on
> your living room wall...or your dinner plates, or your tv???

But we weren't. And that's why we have lots of toy tools!

--aj

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/23/04 11:42:41 AM, jmcseals@... writes:

<< My family or friends probably won't feel like it's okay if
my kids do that in their homes. This has actually happened before with a
marker at Grandma's house. I'm sorry but at some point there does come a
time when it's NOT ok for the kids to do whatever they wish in the name of
artistic expression, instinct or whatever. >>

My kids have never done damage to other people's houses or cars.

They have sometimes kicked a wall or opened a door too hard and made a
doorknob dent or accidentally done some damage here in our house.

Picking at loose wallpaper is something that even some adults will do.
I know few to none who would do it at someone else's house.

-=-some people here hold or things you actually practice in your home??? At
what point does it become important to you that you not have to choose
between having your walls look like shit and dad getting mad or spending
money to replace wallpaper or paint that you may or may not have on a
recurring basis?-=-

When we were looking at houses to buy when we outgrew the old one, I nixed
immediately the one with the 12" wooden baseboards and the stencilled walls.
And the one with 3/4" carpet. No. I had/have no interest in having a house
that's so nice that an accidental mark on the wall is a disaster. We're trying
to spend our days here with playdoh and rock'n'roll and drinking juice and
soda.

Our house isn't just a place to meet at the end of the day. It's the all
day, all life site.

-=-Some of the answers I've read to this thread seem a bit lofty to me and
frankly, I have a hard time believing them, which is why I'm asking thse
questions.-=-

The damage was already them and making them feel better, or thinking of how
to repair it in such a way that they don't continue to peel it (which is what
my suggestions involved--ways to seal off the edges with molding or paint).

-=- I do think there is something odd about just encouraging them to
tear up the walls in the entire house just because I don't like the
wallpaper and they think it's fun, interesting or whatever.-=-

The wallpaper in our bathroom is sad and not well. One place, I just
box-taped it back. When we decide to undo it, it would be WAY more fun to let Holly
tear it off gleefully than to take it off in somber, business-like fashion.

-=-The bottom line is that regardless of how I feel about the wallpaper...and
I
DO hate it...we just bought this house two months ago and I want a house
that looks nice. So does my husband, so do my older girls. -=-

The question was for gentle help. So people answered in favor of the
children rather than of the wallpaper.

-=-Is it really okay with you if they tear things up in your house
because they like to peel things? -=-

I made a suggestion about finding them other things to peel.

-=- I mean, what if we were talking about a
child popping holes in the wall with a hammer because he likes to and he has
seen you hammering nails into the fence and decides he can try that out on
your living room wall...or your dinner plates, or your tv???-=-

If a child wanted to use a hammer, wouldn't you give him a safe opportunity
to do so?

Should the children have been better supervised? Should the wallpaper be
stablilzed as soon as possible, if you want to keep it? Then do that. That's
not a parenting question, it's a wall finishing question, and you were given
several suggestions about that too.

-=-I'm really confused.-=-

It's not consensus. It's brainstorming.
Not all answers are equally valid or even equally serious, in brainstorming.
Take what you need and leave the rest.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/23/04 12:12:42 PM, CelticFrau@... writes:

<< Jen - honestly, it has never mattered to me to have a really nice house.
>>

Interestingly, Kirby had three other kids spend the night after a very late
Magic tournament where he works. One is altogether new here; the others are
repeats.

That boy came through about five minutes ago and said "You have a really nice
house!"

I looked over at him, over the pile of stuff on the counter, over the two
chairs nearest me (one with an unfinished upholstery repair on the back and an
ice cream maker in the seat, the other with a pile of airling itinerary
printouts and circles and arrows). I noticed this morning that the couch downstairs
is like a big sculpture of partially sorted and folded laundry, with a couple
of basket-shaped dumps piled on top artsily.

I said "Thanks. We really like it. We tried to have a kid house, where the
kids could be comfortable."

He said he liked the confusion of the various levels. I do too.

Our house isn't "nice" but it struck a visiting kid as a nice place to be.
That's more important to me than most other things in life.

Sandra

Fetteroll

on 5/23/04 1:20 PM, Chris and Jen SEALS at jmcseals@... wrote:

> I have no problem having my kids help me replace the wallpaper or paint the
> wall, etc. I do think there is something odd about just encouraging them to
> tear up the walls in the entire house just because I don't like the
> wallpaper and they think it's fun, interesting or whatever.

I think you got the responses you did because you said you didn't like the
wallpaper and it sounds like the damage has already been done. People did
suggest corner protectors and how to paste it back on.

When we were at my aunt's house with my then 4 yo (or so) daughter, another
child came by. There was a bit of the wallpaper torn. The other girl wanted
to pull at it. My daughter wanted to smooth it out and stick it back down
the way it was supposed to be.

Was that because her mom let her rip wallpaper at home? Because I taught
mine not to?

No. Different personalities. Different desires.

If Betsy (and lots and lots of other people undoubtedly! ;-) couldn't resist
picking as an adult, is it reasonable to expect to be able to (gently) teach
a child to supress a desire to pick?

You'll need to watch them when they're at homes with wallpaper and say no.
And say no to writing on walls at other people's houses. They'll eventually
get it that there are different behaviors for home and away.

My daughter used to eat sprawled across the kitchen table. She never did it
at anyone else's home. She never did it at a restaurant. And she eventually
outgrew it.

Maybe pulling off all the wallpaper will give them their lifetime fill of
picking and they won't pick at their kids' cradle cap ;-)

Joyce