Robyn Coburn

Has anyone read the article on pre-school age computer use in the latest
Life Learning magazine? I am pretty disappointed in it, but am having
trouble organizing my thoughts for a dissenting Letter to the Editor (also
the writer). It seems like the author is extrapolating the results of a
study on schooled and pre-schooled children on to unschooled children (as
often occurs).



The quote I like least:



�it is safe to say that very early computer use � like early television
exposure � should be avoided or limited�



I want to say something about the experience of unschooling families being
the opposite of every problem that is quoted in the article, without
sounding peevish. It is almost offensive to me that it is implied that if
your young child uses a computer for games or learning, that s/he is being
neglected and the parents are not actively engaged with her/him. This
doesn�t happen with unschoolers.



Aside from that broad idea, my other criticism of the statement is that it
is not �safe to say� any of that, but rather it is the subject of ongoing
debate - as the article makes clear.



Later in the magazine, in a short piece on anti-consumerism, there is a
second recommendation to parents to limit TV exposure.



Gee, the more I write the more I feel like canceling my subscription
(although on balance I�m not going to). I�m troubled partly because this
magazine is pretty much �the only game in town� other than on line. I just
ignore the �necessary evil� of the advertising - curriculum vendors and math
lessons programs.



I guess what I really want to do here is just share my disillusionment about
what had hitherto been a terrific publication with enlightening articles,
particularly Naomi and Jan�s columns.



Robyn L. Coburn






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[email protected]

In a message dated 5/19/04 2:58:27 PM, dezigna@... writes:

<< I want to say something about the experience of unschooling families being

the opposite of every problem that is quoted in the article, without

sounding peevish. >>

I haven't read it yet, but those ARE unschooling families. Maybe not the
author, but the magazine. And if the editor didn't think it was a good thing to
publish... I hadn't noticed it being an anti-media magazine, but it might
be.

-=- It is almost offensive to me that it is implied that if

your young child uses a computer for games or learning, that s/he is being

neglected and the parents are not actively engaged with her/him. This

doesn’t happen with unschoolers. -=-

I have that magazine around here somewhere close. I saw it yesterday. Was
the author not a parent?

-=- I’m troubled partly because this

magazine is pretty much “the only game in town” other than on line.-=-

Well there's my column in Home Education Magazine!

(Maybe if I didn't spew forth so freely here, more people would buy that to
read what I wrote. LOL. The current column is called "Jubilation and
Triangulation," and the next one will be "Playing."

The latest one is here:

http://sandradodd.com/schoolinmyhead

One of the articles from the newest Life Learning was sent to me after the
magazine came out for website use, and it here (Thank you Pam Laricchia!!):

http://sandradodd.com/r/alyssa

Sandra

kayb85

--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
> Has anyone read the article on pre-school age computer use in the
latest
> Life Learning magazine? I am pretty disappointed in it, but am
having
> trouble organizing my thoughts for a dissenting Letter to the
Editor (also
> the writer).

Yep, and I felt the same way you did. I wasn't just disappointed, I
was VERY surprised. Btw, the author was the editor, Wendy
Priesnitz. :(

Sheila

Jason & Stephanie

-----

Has anyone read the article on pre-school age computer use in the latest
Life Learning magazine? I am pretty disappointed in it, but am having
trouble organizing my thoughts for a dissenting Letter to the Editor (also
the writer). It seems like the author is extrapolating the results of a
study on schooled and pre-schooled children on to unschooled children (as
often occurs).>>>>

****I just got that as a sample issue and was very disappointed in the articles that you mentioned. I didn't think of writing a letter to the editor though, I just figured I may not subscribe. I'm assuming that it usually doesn't go that route? I do have a subscription to HEM and I did enjoy your article Sandra :)
Stephanie





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<<I haven't read it yet, but those ARE unschooling families. Maybe not the

author, but the magazine. And if the editor didn't think it was a good
thing to publish... I hadn't noticed it being an anti-media magazine,
but it might be.>>

The article was addressing a couple of recent studies about childhood
computer use, but the author/editor Wendy Priesnitz clearly has an
anti-electronic media opinion and is pro parental limiting and controlling
in this area, judging by what she writes springing from the reporting of the
study. She sees computers as a distraction from "interaction with caring
adults and from the hands-on exploration and play that lay the true
foundations for learning." (Not in my house.) She also wrote a lot about
what seems to be life divided into academic subjects and discussions of
"academic achievement". At best this is writing about stuff that is entirely
irrelevant to unschoolers.

I'm vaguely concerned that she is going to bring that anti-media agenda to
the Conference, but if that is the case, since I don't want to be grumping
and harrumphing unpleasantly in my seat, I am not obliged to attend her
particular presentation. I would have no expectation of being able to change
her view with my anecdotal evidence (the foundation of this list after all
is the combined anecdotal evidence of those who have gone before),
especially since she is very impressed by the list of child advocates and
experts who appended themselves onto a group promoting these anti-computer
findings.

The fact that this was such a different point of view from any of the others
I have read about in that magazine, with so much schoolish jargon thrown in,
was what made it such a startling disappointment.

<<Well there's my column in Home Education Magazine!>>>

Thanks for reminding me that this publication exists. What proportion of the
magazine is actually about unschooling issues (other than Sandra's
contributions)? I don't need heaps more info flying at me about how to
combine curriculums or "make math fun!" I can get that junk for free at Park
Days.

<<One of the articles from the newest Life Learning was sent to me after the

magazine came out for website use, and it here (Thank you Pam Laricchia!!)>>

I loved Pam Laricchia's article both times I read it - on line and in the LL
magazine. I would love to see her daughter's list about the clues linking up
through the HP books. Wondering what is a clue for a yet to come installment
has given me many happy moments of contemplation.

Robyn L. Coburn

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Andrea

At 06:06 PM 5/19/04, Sandra wrote:
>I haven't read it yet, but those ARE unschooling families. Maybe not the
>author, but the magazine. And if the editor didn't think it was a good
>thing to
>publish... I hadn't noticed it being an anti-media magazine, but it might
>be.

In my limited real-life experience, parents may say they are unschooling
but still limit activities, especially media, and attempt to control their
children's experiences.

Donna in Nova Scotia

24hrmom

<< And if the editor didn't think it was a good thing to publish... I
hadn't noticed it being an anti-media magazine, but it might
be. >>

This is the first really anti-media article - we'll have to wait and see.
The editor also publishes a magazine called "Natural Life", though I checked
out the website and it's not really anti-TV, more anti-advertising. And
there's a cool article there by Jan Hunt about how much her son learned from
"I Love Lucy".

<< One of the articles from the newest Life Learning was sent to me after
the magazine came out for website use, and it here (Thank you Pam
Laricchia!!) >>

You're welcome! <g>

And just as a bit more of an update - it's just so fun to watch her! I
mentioned in the update to the article that she was reading Harry Potter fan
fiction on the net. Lately she's been posting reviews. Last night she came
to tell me that one of the authors had posted a note saying hers was the
best review she received. She thought that was pretty cool.

And last weekend she and her laptop were hanging out in the family room and
I guess she pulled up the first story she wrote (only two months ago). She
was laughing and commented on how bad her spelling was. Too funny! <g> And
she hasn't offered to let me read anything yet!

Last week she started her latest story. She told me that she came up with
chapter titles (21 chapters) and then wrote a paragraph or two for each
describing what it's about. Now she's writing the story itself. Cool.

Talk about learning on your own ... the only thing she's ever asked me was
how to spell a few words!

And as an aside, she mentioned that she likes her chapters to have 8 pages
and she had figured out that that would mean her latest story would be 168
pages long. She talked about the length of some of the fan fiction chapters
and stories she's read and I mentioned averages and we worked out the
average number of pages per chapter for a couple of her fave stories.

Did I mention I love unschooling?!

Pam L
http://www.livingjoyfully.ca

24hrmom

<< The fact that this was such a different point of view from any of the
others I have read about in that magazine, with so much schoolish jargon
thrown in, was what made it such a startling disappointment. >>

I was really quite shocked as I read that particular article as well. The
study being discussed had nothing to do with an unschooling / life learning
approach to computer use. It seemed to me that they looked at young kids
who were being encouraged to use preschool "edutainment" software for
learning purposes only (i.e. "to get ahead") or preschool / kindy classes
using this "learning software" as part of their curriculum. Very far from
an unschooling approach to multimedia.

And the Alliance for Childhood's "Call to Action" which was signed by many
"children's advocates, educators" etc encourages: "a refocusing in
education, at home and school, on the essentials of a healthy childhood:
strong bonds with caring adults; time for spontaneous, creative play; a
curriculum rich in music and the other arts; reading books aloud;
storytelling and poetry; rhythm and movement; cooking, building things and
other handcrafts; and gardening and other hands-on experiences of nature and
the physical world."

Well, that sure sounds good. Sounds like many of the interesting activities
that a young unschooling kid would come into contact with! They just left
out TV and computers. :-( It seems they are definitely talking to
mainstream parents who they are concerned are using multimedia outlets (TV
and computers) to keep their kids occupied at the expense of exploring the
"real" world and to avoid building meaningful relationships with them. That
is just not an unschooling approach to multimedia.

<< I loved Pam Laricchia's article both times I read it - on line and in the
LL magazine.

Thanks!

<< I would love to see her daughter's list about the clues linking up
through the HP books. Wondering what is a clue for a yet to come installment
has given me many happy moments of contemplation. >>

I'll ask her if she'd like to put up a page about it on our website.

In the meantime, have you checked out JK Rowling's new and improved
website?! Alyssa was so excited Sunday when she found out what Molly
Weasley's maiden name was - I won't spoil it but it was another cool
connection. Lots of other interesting tidbits as well I hear. I can't wait
to find an hour to poke around myself!

http://www.jkrowling.com


Pam L
http://www.livingjoyfully.ca

24hrmom

Well this thread got me going and I've spent some time this morning finding
and reading the "Zero to Six" study and the Alliance for Childhood's "Call
to Action", as well as writing a short letter to the Life Learning editor.
This may be a bit off topic since it's based on a "mainstream" study, but I
thought I'd pass it on since the article is being discussed.

For anyone interested you can find the "Zero to Six" study (pdf file) at:

http://www.kff.org/entmedia/loader.cfm?url=/commonspot/security/getfile.cfm&PageID=22754

and the Alliance for Childhood's "Call for Action" statement at:

http://www.allianceforchildhood.net/projects/computers/computers_articles_call_for_action.htm

Here's the email to the editor I've written. I do really enjoy the magazine
(not to mention that they just published my article!) so I don't want to
come across as bitter but I did want to point out that a lot of the concerns
expressed are not applicable to unschoolers (or life learners, as is their
naming preference).
___________________________________________________

Dear Life Learning,

The article "Computers for Kids - Learning Tools or Imagination Stunters"
did not seem to fit in well with the overall life learning approach of the
magazine. I would imagine that with the random-digit dial telephone survery
of 1,000 parents that they conducted for the study "Zero to Six: Electronic
Media in the Lives of Infants, Toddlers and Preschoolers" they did not come
in contact with very many (if any) parents taking an unschooling or life
learning approach to computers, or multimedia in general.

The article states that "critics of early computer use are concerned that
computers will replace opportunities for hands-on manipulation in real-life,
real-time situations." And this seems to be the motivation behind the
Alliance for Childhood's "Call for Action" calling for, among other actions:
"a refocusing in education, at home and school, on the essentials of a
healthy childhood: strong bonds with caring adults; time for spontaneous,
creative play; a curriculum rich in music and the other arts; reading books
aloud; storytelling and poetry; rhythm and movement; cooking, building
things and other handcrafts; and gardening and other hands-on experiences of
nature and the physical world." It seems they are talking about mainstream
parents who they are concerned are using multimedia outlets (TV and
computers) to keep their kids occupied at the expense of exploring the
"real" world and building meaningful relationships with them.

Interestingly the Zero to Six study did *not* find that electronic media is
frequently being used as a "babysitter", with young kids being left alone
for many hours with no adult presence or guidance. "The vast majority of
parents (85%) reported that most of the time, the child was watching with
someone else. Moreover, 69% of parents reported that they were in the room
either all or most of the time their child was watching." They do concede
that they don't know whether the parent was actually watching the show with
with their child.

However, the majority of the readers of this magazine do not have kids in
daycare or school. And their life learning kids are living real-life
hands-on with the full active participation of caring parents. The "Call
for Action" list sounds like many of the activities a young life learner
would come into contact with regularly! And without the burden of a daycare
or school schedule a life learning child does not have to wait until
evenings and weekends to pursue these real-life interests so it's not an
either-or situation. I agree with Seymour Papert that problems with
computer use arise when it is "isolated from the learning process and from
life, rather than integrated into the whole." Time that our kids spend with
computers and the TV does not take away from real life, it's just another
part of it. Life learners are uniquely able to pursue their interests and
learning by living freely every day using any and all avenues available.
_____________________________________________________

Pam L
http://www.livingjoyfully.ca

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/20/04 4:45:31 AM, andrea@... writes:

<< n my limited real-life experience, parents may say they are unschooling
but still limit activities, especially media, and attempt to control their
children's experiences. >>

Lots do.

And if the editor of the only current natural learning magazine does so,
there will be thousands more who are willing to settle there.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/19/04 9:01:21 PM, dezigna@... writes:

<< Thanks for reminding me that this publication exists. What proportion of
the
magazine is actually about unschooling issues (other than Sandra's
contributions)? I don't need heaps more info flying at me about how to
combine curriculums or "make math fun!" I can get that junk for free at Park
Days. >>

I think more people from here should send things to Home Education Magazine!
They've published Mary Gold (Zenmomma) and Ren, so there was some more
unschooling stuff!

Carol Narigon has a column and she's an unschooler. The "curriculum"
description I recommend to people is hers (and now there are links to Pam
Sorooshian's similarly useful descriptions too):

http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum

Sandra

Danielle Conger

Sandra wrote: I think more people from here should send things to Home
Education Magazine!
> They've published Mary Gold (Zenmomma) and Ren, so there was some more
> unschooling stuff!
============

I agree that would be great! But, I wonder how many would make it in because
the editors seem to try to keep a balance of approaches. Even if they
received more unschooling articles, they might not publish them because they
don't want to be an unschooling magazine. I don't know--that's just my
perception.

I like LL because it does seem to focus on unschooling and non-coercive
parenting while HEM is more comprehensive of homeschooling in general. LL
also strikes me as more philosophical/ theoretical while HEM is more
practical/ day in the life kind kind of stuff. I get them both and look
forward to both arriving in the mail. I probably prefer the articles overall
in HEM--they seem more real to me somehow, probably because of the practical
bent.

These are, of course, only my impressions. . .

--Danielle

http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/20/04 12:01:46 PM, danielle.conger@... writes:

<< But, I wonder how many would make it in because

the editors seem to try to keep a balance of approaches. Even if they

received more unschooling articles, they might not publish them because they

don't want to be an unschooling magazine. >>

I don't think HALF would be too much! <g>

Also I think (but can't prove or guarantee) that they'll choose inspiring,
sweet articles over dry technical stuff. Even school-at-homers can benefit from
inspiring/sweet, but hardly anyone benefits from dry. But if dry homer stuff
is all they get, that's what they'll publish.

Sandra

[email protected]

I have to say that as a new homeschooler Life Learning helped me see the
benefit of unschooling. I would give it alot of credit hepling me make the
radical change from CLASSICAL homeschooling to radical unschooling. It usually gives
clear and reassuring explainations of life learning/ unschooling. I leave it
in the bathroom for my DH to read in an attempt to expain unschooling and
reassure him that we are doing okay. He liked the article in this issue which
was an excerpt from the Unprocessed Child. I was very reassuring to him that
someone who decided to persue college could succeed without 13 years of school
behind them.

Cheryl


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nellebelle

I buy it!

I'm on a tight budget, as are many. In my early homeschooling years, I
didn't subscribe to HEM or my state homeschool group. I do now, because I
want those resources to be around.

Of course not every article in HEM fits me, but I always find several
articles that seem to be just what I needed for inspiration, motivation, or
information.

Our state group, Washington Homeschool Organization, is a great clearing
house for Home Based Instruction (legal term in our state). They help
homeschoolers network and keep up with local legislation. They provide a
forum for all homeschoolers, regardless of style or other values.

Mary Ellen

----- Original Message -----
Well there's my column in Home Education Magazine!

(Maybe if I didn't spew forth so freely here, more people would buy that to
read what I wrote. LOL. The current column is called "Jubilation and
Triangulation," and the next one will be "Playing."

24hrmom

Just thought I'd close the loop on this one. I heard back from Wendy
Priesnitz (the editor of Life Learning) regarding my comments about the
Computer for Kids article. She mentioned that they had received a number of
letters, both critical and praising about the article, and she was glad to
see that the magazine was "generating such thoughtful and eloquent
responses!"

Mine arrived too late but she is publishing a couple of them in the next
issue.

Pam L