J. Stauffer

All this talk about parents demeaning their children makes me wonder if many people move to unschooling and respectful parenting as a reaction against abuses they received as a child.

I wonder if a disproportionate number of unschoolers come from dysfunctional childhoods.

The childhoods many people describe on this list are horrendous....I just can't imagine the "Miss Aster" stuff....and I'm very sad that anyone had to go through that.

But it seems much more common on this list than in real life....or at least my real life. Any thoughts?

Julie S.

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pam sorooshian

My parents were kind and would never have said such things to us. They
also never spanked us and the worst punishment we ever got was being
told to go into our room until we calmed down.

But, thinking about the neighborhood where I grew up, I can very
quickly name off a number of parents who said these kinds of things
regularly to their kids. I was a very sensitive kid and I was sometimes
in agony worrying they'd say something mean directly to me. When Sandra
talks about her mother, I always picture our next-door neighbor who
used all those same phrases on her kids. There was also a neighbor man
who had mounted a belt above a hall doorway and he'd point to it and
everybody in the family would go silent. It really creeped my sister
and me out a lot. There were a number of other parents who seemed
"mean" to me and my sisters. We were scared of quite a few of them.

-pam

On May 16, 2004, at 9:48 PM, J. Stauffer wrote:

> But it seems much more common on this list than in real life....or at
> least my real life. Any thoughts?
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

Alyce

--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
> > But it seems much more common on this list than in real
life....or at
> > least my real life. Any thoughts?


Interesting this would come up. I'm having the same discussion with
my writer's group. So might such and upbringing create unschoolers
or might it breed writers or might it just be that there's a lot
more maltreatment across the board going on than any of us realize?

My experience growing up would qualify more under the horrifying
category. :) So I write (not just the cheesy articles, but dark
fiction that as yet has been unpublished - I've been ambivalent
about exposing that side of myself, frankly) and I unschool... and
try for all the world to make sure my kids know how worthwhile and
wonderful they are.

Alyce

Fetteroll

on 5/17/04 12:48 AM, J. Stauffer at jnjstau@... wrote:

> All this talk about parents demeaning their children makes me wonder if many
> people move to unschooling and respectful parenting as a reaction against
> abuses they received as a child.

Not me. I had nice parents. I don't remember anything traumatizing or even
disturbing. Obviously I must have been thwarted at times but nothing that
sticks out in my memory. I was a "good" kid (read convenient for parents ;-)
so there wasn't much need for us to clash.

And I basically liked school too :-)

Joyce

kayb85

> All this talk about parents demeaning their children makes me
wonder if many people move to unschooling and respectful parenting as
a reaction against abuses they received as a child.

I've been realizing that there are just a lot more people in this
world who came from dysfunctional or emotionally abusive families
than I ever would have imagined. Not just on this list, but
everywhere.

I think one difference is that on this list, people tend to recognize
what the not so good parts about their childhoods were, realize that
they weren't right or normal, and determine to not pass them on to
their kids. Maybe the awareness comes from mindful parenting. I'm
not sure if you have to be more aware in order to get unschooling, or
if being more aware leads you to unschooling. A little of both
maybe. I think it's really sad when people treat their children
poorly just because that's what was done to them. They never
realized that there was anything wrong with it when it was done to
them, so they continue the behavior because that's what they think is
normal.

Sheila

catherine aceto

I had nice, functional parents, who never even said "because I said so." But I can't say that I liked school (even though I was *very* good at it).

-Cat


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[email protected]

In a message dated 5/17/2004 7:50:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sheran@...
writes:
They never realized that there was anything wrong with it when it was done to
them, so they continue the behavior because that's what they think is normal.
<<<<


Right. "And *I* turned out just fine" seems to be the mantra.

Ben and hear it from our siblings all the time.....well, when we talk of
these things any more....which is never.

~Kelly


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J. Stauffer

<<<And I basically liked school too :-)>>>>

Now that's just weird. <grin>

I wasn't convenient for my parents. I was basically an anarchist, following
only my own sense of right or wrong. When I think back on it, I am amazed
at their patience and wisdom.

Julie S.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fetteroll" <fetteroll@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 5:27 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Family History


> on 5/17/04 12:48 AM, J. Stauffer at jnjstau@... wrote:
>
> > All this talk about parents demeaning their children makes me wonder if
many
> > people move to unschooling and respectful parenting as a reaction
against
> > abuses they received as a child.
>
> Not me. I had nice parents. I don't remember anything traumatizing or even
> disturbing. Obviously I must have been thwarted at times but nothing that
> sticks out in my memory. I was a "good" kid (read convenient for parents
;-)
> so there wasn't much need for us to clash.
>
> And I basically liked school too :-)
>
> Joyce
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

24hrmom

<< I wonder if a disproportionate number of unschoolers come from
dysfunctional childhoods. >>

Not me either. My childhood was pretty typical with school, bedtimes,
finish your plate, and do what you're told but no spanking (maybe one or two
swats in frustration that I can remember). I remember it happily with lots
of summers spent swimming in our pool, quite a few family vacations, and
being actively involved in dancing for all my childhood. And I was
definitely a "good" student.

Pam L

Jason & Stephanie

<<<All this talk about parents demeaning their children makes me wonder if many people move to unschooling and respectful parenting as a reaction against abuses they received as a child.

I wonder if a disproportionate number of unschoolers come from dysfunctional childhoods.>>>>>>
****It is definitely a big reason why we chose this life. I grew up very angry and rebellious, broken home, step parents, verbal abuse and step father punched me and I ran away, lots of stuff. We chose to have me stay home and be here with the kids, we chose home ed before we had kids. We naturally followed a path to unschooling about 2 years ago. I just usually read and absorb on lots of these lists.
Stephanie in PA(first time posting)

mom to 4


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pam sorooshian

On May 17, 2004, at 5:52 AM, catherine aceto wrote:

> I had nice, functional parents, who never even said "because I said
> so."

> But I can't say that I liked school (even though I was *very* good at
> it).

I think I liked it - I got excited every year when summer vacation was
over, anticipating the new school year. BUT - I can't really think
clearly about it. We didn't have a choice. I never even considered the
possibility of not going. I LOVED summer vacation and I loved weekends.
I certainly do remember watching the clock and waiting for those last
minutes of the day to click off and feeling like I was just exploding
into the freedom of "after school." Every day! I never regretted the
school day ending, that's for sure. So in spite of the fact that I
remember thinking I liked school, I think I was simply a positive
optimistic kind of kid who bloomed where she was planted.

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

Kate Sitzman

>>"I wonder if a disproportionate number of unschoolers come from
dysfunctional childhoods."<<


I Don't think my childhood was dysfunctional, though it was fairly unusual.
and I think it had a lot to do with what led me to unschooling. My mom
worked in Education - teaching, college admissions, then school
administration. We moved a LOT when I was growing up so I had the
opportunity to attend a lot of different kinds of schools - large, small,
public, private, even boarding school. I learned quickly that schools were
just a game to be played and they just had different rules. I abandoned the
myth of the 'good school'. I mastered the rules and even used them to skip 2
grades and graduate at 16 (I wanted OUT). I was also in the habit of missing
about 30 days of school every semester. My mom let me stay home almost any
time I wanted, and she would also pull me out to take me on business trips
with her whenever she could, because she felt I'd get a lot more out of it
than the school was offering me. My mom would even have done my homework for
me if I had let her (pretty funny for someone who later became a school
principal). My mom would have been a perfect unschooling mom, but she never
realized it. I was treated with a lot of respect and given a lot of freedom
and responsibility. I think it was the taste of freedom and adventure I had
growing up that lead me to seek it out more for my kids - I wanted them to
have the complete experience - that for me, was only hinted at.

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/16/04 11:11:10 PM, jnjstau@... writes:

<< All this talk about parents demeaning their children makes me wonder if
many people move to unschooling and respectful parenting as a reaction against
abuses they received as a child. >>

I wanted to be a teacher and I did that, and from that I saw LOTS of familes,
worse than mine. I saw how a child who's had a REALLY crappy overnight at
home can't even think or stay awake or care. Some people's parents are
dull-eyed and evil. My mom was just ignorant and thoughtless.

-=-I wonder if a disproportionate number of unschoolers come from
dysfunctional childhoods.-=-

Not that I know of. It seems the proporion of dysfunctional people is about
normal for the times.

-=-The childhoods many people describe on this list are horrendous....I just
can't imagine the "Miss Aster" stuff....and I'm very sad that anyone had to go
through that.-=-

Oh no, that's not horrendous. Horrendous is two alcoholic parents, not just
one. Violence between parents, which I never had. Incest or other sexual
abuse, which I never had. Being forced to lie to cover family crap, which I
never had.

-=-But it seems much more common on this list than in real life....or at
least my real life. Any thoughts?-=-

I think it's much LESS common on this list than in real life.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/17/04 5:50:27 AM, sheran@... writes:

<< I think one difference is that on this list, people tend to recognize

what the not so good parts about their childhoods were, realize that

they weren't right or normal, and determine to not pass them on to

their kids. >>

Good point.

There are people in ear shot of our house who were raised badly and are
passing it right along, phrases verbatim, hateful screaming and shaming that the
neighbors can hear. Our house is trying to NOT pass on those same kinds of
behaviors.

At Keith's house it was all very quiet. His mother's meanness was more
likely to be silence or a snort than a phrase. Similarly cruel, just not as
quotable. A more high-class, civilized kind of put-down.

Sandra

[email protected]

They never realized that there was anything wrong with it when it was done to

them, so they continue the behavior because that's what they think is normal.

<<<<


Right. "And *I* turned out just fine" seems to be the mantra.


*****************

DD14 just told me about a conversation along these lines.

She performed in a recital/musical theatre revue on Saturday. It
involved all ages, but her own peer group within the "company" is six or seven
girls and a couple of boys, age 13-16 or so. (A couple are homeschooled, none is
unschooled except DD, but a few others do have thoughtful, mindful parents.)
They'd been together in the theatre almost around the clock, what with dress
rehearsal and an earlier show that day, and they were cooling their heels in the
wings in costume, before the first number of the second show.

As DD tells it, someone mentioned what a brat one of the youngest
dancers was, what a pain, why didn't her parents make her behave better, be
quieter and less of a prima donna. DD helps work with the younger ones and knows
them pretty well, so she said oh, no, really they're all great kids.

Several of the others turned on her and said not this one, this one
needs lots more discipline, her parents spank her but apparently not hard enough
or often enough (shocking the few who it seems, like DD, had never been
spanked or slapped or even given a "time-out.".)

One of these girls suggested maybe all the spanking and swatting could
be part of the problem rather than the answer, to a chorus of angry denial
from those who grew up being hit by their parents. They started telling stories
to show being spanked was necessary to being raised right, saying "DUH -
that's why they call it *discipline*!" and that it had made them moral and
well-behaved -- if ganging up to make mean remarks about some smaller child in your
circle can be considered moral or well-behaved <grrr>

What was really interesting though, and the reason I bring it up now,
is that DD said she realized at that point there was nothing to say. At least
there was nothing anyone who'd never been hit or punished could say. Her few
gently parented peers there just seemed to sense that anything they said would
sound like a put-down of someone else's parents. And that it wouldn't help
anybody, anyway.

Here is the Power of Story I see in this. By the teen years, being
spanked and smacked becomes something its victims must either internalize and
defend, or break from their family's teachings to reject (two really poor life
choices for a young teen, imo). But NOT being smacked and spanked seems by the
teen years to foster a natural, internal kind of moral, well-behaved
sensitivity (one that even the girls themselves weren't conscious of).

These lovely, thoughtful, beautifully mannered, compassionate and
happy girls were just sad and felt sorry about what others had been taught to
believe, and so today I'm thinking of this as one of the first world windows
through which DD and her similarly parented peers are seeing for themselves the
logical results of how humans treat each other -- and DD and I both are
despairing of how to ever share this with those who've had other sensibilities beaten
into (or out of) them. JJ


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[email protected]

In a message dated 5/17/04 11:20:54 AM, jrossedd@... writes:

<< Here is the Power of Story I see in this. By the teen years, being
spanked and smacked becomes something its victims must either internalize and
defend, or break from their family's teachings to reject (two really poor
life
choices for a young teen, imo). >>

When I was a teenager and in college, I defended my mom's spanking of my baby
brother, figuring that he wouldn't remember and so she could train him so
that when he was older she would never need to spank him.

It didn't take too long for me to change my mind, but I remember I defended
that position IN WRITING, in a journal for a professor to read, and I have it
somewhere. And the professor didn't say "Are you nuts?" to me. Maybe
should've. <g>

I'm glad I got over defending my mom. But even then I could tell it was a
justification or a soothing of my own life. I was explaining why MY life was as
it was, and I wasn't prepared mentally or emotionally to start deconstructing
it to look carefully. Some people never want to be. Or maybe they don't
have that intrapersonal thing Gardner talks about and so no interest, no
wish/ability (wishability! <g>)

Sandra

[email protected]

I think that everybody probably knows way more people who had crappy
childhoods than they realize. Most people don't go around telling other people about
their childhood traumas unless there's a good reason to share, for instance
parents trying to figure out how to make their children's lives better. So it
stands to reason you hear more about this on unschooling lists, and parenting
lists, (and even on writers lists where folks are getting in touch with their
inner selves).

It's not that more unschoolers came from dysfunctional families, it's that
the conversations unschoolers have about children and respect allow those who
did have crappy childhoods to talk about them and encourage others and
themselves to consider how not to mess up their childrens lives without thought.

Deborah in IL


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Jennifer Altenbach

About dysfunctional childhoods, Sandra wrote:

<<<<-=-But it seems much more common on this list than in real
life....or at
least my real life. Any thoughts?-=-

I think it's much LESS common on this list than in real life.

Sandra>>>>>

Sadly, I also think this is true. We recently had a spammer get past
the moderators on the positive discipline list I am on. He invited us
to a yahoo group that he had set up that was basically a forum for
discussing a disturbing fetish involving children. I checked out his
group, and the scary thing was that there were over 300 members already,
and it was a new group! And the moderators said that they get at least
one of these every month (because the word "discipline" is in the name
of the group). Then you look at some of those daytime talk shows, or
watch the news, and you can't help but think that there are a LOT of
messed up people out there, and few people are able to rise above the
continuing cycle of abuse and neglect, for whatever reason. I even have
a friend who uses all the attachment parenting practices with her babies
and seems very progressive in her parenting philosophy, but who stunned
me the other day by saying that she thinks that spanking is necessary
sometimes.

I actually don't know ANYONE in real life who I would feel comfortable
appointing as a guardian for my kids if anything were to happen to Chris
and me(a dilemma that has been bugging me lately). None of my friends
or family members really "get" the way we are trying to raise our kids,
although they do support my efforts. Not that they all had horrendous
childhoods, but they were raised with a system of punishments and
rewards, some were spanked, some were emotionally abused, they all went
to school, and very few of them seem to be open to alternatives to the
above.

OK, so before you all get the impression that I am always this gloomy, I
also want to say how totally mind-blowing and inspiring I am finding
this list! Last night as I did the dishes my mind was racing as I
thought about several of the recent topics. I just love it when I think
I know it all and then I find out that so very much more is out there.
You all are amazing!!!!

Gotta go, my son needs me...

Jenny




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[email protected]

In a message dated 5/17/2004 1:11:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jnjstau@... writes:
All this talk about parents demeaning their children makes me wonder if many
people move to unschooling and respectful parenting as a reaction against
abuses they received as a child.

I wonder if a disproportionate number of unschoolers come from dysfunctional
childhoods.

The childhoods many people describe on this list are horrendous....I just
can't imagine the "Miss Aster" stuff....and I'm very sad that anyone had to go
through that.

But it seems much more common on this list than in real life....or at least
my real life. Any thoughts?<<<<<


My parents spanked. A lot. It's still *my* first reaction when extremely
stressed. It takes everything I have sometimes not to strike out. Just the way I
was brought up. I was hit with hands, belts, switches, hairbrushes---probably
other things I can't quite recall. Cameron was spanked a little. Duncan, not at
all.

I was eleven before I knew someone who was NOT spanked! Really. Just the way
things were/are here. I was floored when I learned that she hadn't been
spanked. And SHE turned out just fine too! <g>

But I wasn't shamed, that I remember. I was always told that I was
loved----and frequently. I was also told I was beautiful, smart, and that I could be/do
anything I wanted. I was given everything I asked for---within reason ( I
never got that black Arabian stallion! <g>). Sometimes I had to wait, though. My
father would go without in order to make sure Johnny and I had everything we
needed/wanted. I honestly can't remember being told "no" by my father.

I was always held to higher expectations. I was fine in school. Liked it
mostly, though I had no options. Homeschooling was illegal here in SC until 1985
(and I was married by then!).

I know of a few families that were kinder, gentler than mine and a whole lot
of families that were meaner. Ben's family comes to mind. They're just MEAN!

~Kelly


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Angela

Is seems likely that the people who question norms enough to consider
unschooling have spent a considerable amount of time reflecting on other
societal norms like mainstream parenting. I think these people are just
more likely to understand that the way they were parented affects their
adult lives because they've spent more time thinking about it.

Most of the people I know in real life were parented the way most mainstream
parents parent. They were shamed (at least to some degree), made to follow
rules blindly (because I said so), and talked down to because they were only
children. Most were spanked and dealt self- defeating comments of a regular
basis.

I know that my own parents, although not perfect parents, did better than
their own parents. I, in turn, have already improved upon their parenting
and I hope my own children improve upon my parenting.

I don't think that more unschoolers come from dysfunctional homes. I agree
with Deborah, I think they are just more aware of it and more willing to
talk about it in order to improve upon their own lives and the lives of
their children.

Angela
<mailto:game-enthusiast@...> game-enthusiast@...


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[email protected]

In a message dated 5/17/2004 5:26:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:

> But I wasn't shamed, that I remember.

Wow, I got that, big time. After a while, I refused to play the shame
game-like the time my mother came down to my track practice and tried to goad me into
running faster by "out running" me (and she was quite a bit older and quite
fat). I just kept joggin along at my pace, even though all the other girls were
yelling for me to "run! beat her!"-because I was damned if I was going to let
her win-which was what would have happened if I had let her goad me into
playing her game. That was her way of "controlling" me whenever there was someone
around to shame me in front of. Otherwise, she just beat me. I think that's
why I don't embarrass, now. I was completely humiliated as a kid and a teen
(puberty was a horror), so not much can bother me, now-except my own dumb
mistakes! LOL It also affects the way I parent. I go out of my way to make sure I
don't humiliate him in public-well, anywhere. Which would be easy to do with
probably any other kid, since I'm such a goof! LOL But he's so much like me, that
really isn't an issue, much.
I was also told I was beautiful, smart, and that I could be/do
anything I wanted.
I got called fat (I wasn't-but the power of a mother's words convinced me I
was), and got those "backhanded" compliments: you have such a pretty face-if
only you'd lose weight! Got told I could never be ____ (such as a vet) because
_____ (I could NEVER get good enough grades-even though I was SMART enough to
get them-I was just LAZY)... but that just helps to influence my parenting.
Unfortunately, when I'm upset or frustrated, sometimes my mother's parenting
surfaces. I hate that. It doesn't happen often, and so far, it hasn't been "the
worst" of it-and it gets better as time goes by and I make my own way. I think
that is my greatest fear-is becoming my mother. (as a parent.) That's one of
the reasons I like this group so much! I get positive reinforcement for that
good, gentle, supportive parenting that I am aiming for and working at! :~)

Síocháin ar domhan,
Sang


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Sylvia Toyama

A quick intro first -- I'm Sylvia, an unschooling Mom to 3 boys (one grown & gone), living in Albuquerque, with my husband Gary and our two younger boys. Andy's almost 8, and Dan is 3.

I grew up in a house where my parents spanked, grounded, confiscated stuff, and the like -- but that was pretty much the way everyone I know was raised to some degree. I don't know anyone who was never spanked. I was also told often (by my Mom) that I was loved, beautiful, smart, and so on, and wasn't really shamed. Never heard it from my Dad, but I'm pretty sure he's incapable of actually feeling love in the way I do (he's just way too damaged), so I've been able to move past that. Sure, our house was dysfunctional, but I knew lots of kids whose homes were much worse than mine -- kids in foster care because their parents abused them horribly, kids still in a home where Dad got drunk and beat everyone in sight. Some of them turned out okay, some not so okay.

Looking back, I know my Mom did a better job than her parents did. Even my Dad did a better job (he was actually tied to chairs as a young child to make him behave!). I've improved on that -- even my siblings who still spank and ground, have improved on our parents' methods.

Like Jenny, one thing that really troubles me is that we don't have anyone in our family who could be trusted to raise our kids should something happen to us. The inlaws aren't abusive, but guilt and shame are their favorite parenting tools, and everyone is very school-oriented. I've actually thought I'd choose my oldest son -- even with the usual challenges of being 19 -- to raise his brothers before anyone else. Being a firstborn myself, I shudder to think of asking him to ever take on such a responsibility. He's enough like me to want better for the boys, just way too young to have to do it. I guess I'll just hold to my conviction that we'll both be just fine.

Anyway, I don't know anyone who didn't have a dysfunctional childhood when I was a kid (it was the 70's after all) and no one I knew then unschools, or even homeschools.

Syl







---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.

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Crystal

> Like Jenny, one thing that really troubles me is that we don't have
anyone in our family who could be trusted to raise our kids should
something happen to us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree. I've instructed my daughter to get online to my unschooling
message boards and request a new family should something happen to
me. There is no one in my family now that would want her even for
overnight, never mind the rest of her life. She has Aspberger's and
could never make it in school. My family just thinks she's spoiled.
Also, she's had the taste of freedom. I doubt she would be capable
of giving that mindset up to go along with the flow of school.

Crystal

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/20/04 7:17:46 AM, crystal.pina@... writes:

<< I agree. I've instructed my daughter to get online to my unschooling

message boards and request a new family should something happen to

me. >>

I have thought that too. Fantasy/daydream kind of way, like.... "Hmmmm.
Maybe the Sorooshians could take Holly, and Marty could move in with Anne for a
while; he's nearly grown... "

I had someone chosen before I knew I was pregnant with Holly, but now I
wouldn't like that deal anymore. We had paperwork, too. But since then he
married and has two younger kids, and his wife has a master's in early childhood Ed
(one of the rush-jobs the NEA is pushing through so they can get stats on how
many unemployed MAs there are and how the government NEEDS to have public
school for toddlers). They spank, too. Blah.

Then there's Wendy, who lived here a while and would have kept them, but
she's moved to Denver with a girlfriend, and so it wouldn't quite work. They're
buying a house there. But for a while they were our backup plan. They would
come and live here and let things procede as usual until the kids were grown
or got other plans, and then help them divie up assets.

Kirby will turn 18 this summer. He would be fine. He could probably help
take care of the other two, or the three of them could agree on an adult someone
to live in the house with them and be guardian.

The courts would turn to my sister or Keith's parents. Keith's parents are
too old and the kids wouldn't want to live with them anyway. My sister would
flutter around panic-like and ask the kids what they wanted to do, and help
them do it.

I should talk to the kids.

The one panicky thing I personally have is having too many of my kids in one
automobile on road trips. We went on a family trip, all five, with Kirby and
Marty doing some of the driving. I had to breathe deeply and think other
thoughts sometimes not to have visions of wondering whether a flaming rollover
would take some of us out, cripple some physically, cripple survivors mentally to
the point they couldn't take care of the surviving cripples. Bad, bad
visions. Too many of us in one car at once.

Though it wasn't a homeschooling situation, I married a friend of mine when
I was 21 so that his 10 and 7 year old siblings wouldn't be taken away. Their
dad died and less than three years later their mom died. The brother (#2 of
6 siblings) who had already been taking care of them even when she was living
was 23 and the only thing keeping the courts from approving him as guardian
was that he was unmarried. So I married him.

The "ranking" relatives on both sides of the family had to agree to Jimbo
being guardian. They were glad to. The state required that we both be bonded
for three years, because of the money management involved. We were physical
guardians (as a couple), an uncle was financial guardian.

So of all the weird reasons to get married, I got married to help babysit.

It lasted three years and some, and I learned some things that help me now.
I could've done better, as a foster mother, but I did better than either
alternative family would've done. I did better with the girl than the boy (younger
kid) who, poor guy, was traumatized. We went with the therapist his
financial-guardian uncle had chosen, and I regret that. The guy was a long-term
Freudian guy. We did every other session Andy and the others another family member
or combo. He gave us a few pieces of useful advice, but mostly it was TOO
slow to do us any practical good. We needed something QUICK and helpful and
useful. Now "how do you feel when" but "here's what might help between now and
next week."

Then for a while my mom and brother lived there. She went away and left him
with us for most of a year. He was 4 and 5 in those days. So I was 21-24 and
had two and three kids for a few years (without the benefit of personal
childbirth experience), and was teaching Jr. High the whole time. Trial by fire.

I don't talk about that much. It's so complicated, and I have wishes for
having done some things better. Other things were great.

That's the house and the relatives of the story of the little girl raised
without sugar who took a sack of sugar into the garden, squatted between rows of
vegetables and was eating sugar out of the bag with both hands as fast as she
could before she got caught.

Sandra