melissazietlow

Hello

I am a SAHM to 2 girls(almost 3 & 5yo). I have been researching
homeschooling and have been very interested in/drawn to/comfortable
with unschooling as a way of life for my family. I feel I understand
the philospophy, but I still feel a little fear about completely
letting go and doing it (or NOT doing what everyone else is doing,
expects, etc.). I have an open-minded husband, and a few
homeschooling friends (traditional parenting, curriculum-users) but
little support otherwise. I joined this list and have been re-
visiting Unschooling.com for some reassurance, as I am somewhat
nervous about taking the first 'official step' into hs, by not
sending dd to kindergarten. I also have been needing some help with
communication & mindful parenting (thanks for the referral to
NoMoreSpanking -- great people).

>Here's what I am afraid of with the preschool idea.
>What I'm worried >about is that Scotty will love it so much (all the
>toys, art supplies, playground equipment) that when he gets too old
>for it he will still want to go to "school" like all his friends
>(and all of their parents are calling preschool "school", I guess to
>get them used to the idea), even though kindergarten is much more
>structured.

We sent Orion to preschool when she was 3yo, because it was what
everyone recommended and what everyone was doing, as well as to give
ourselves a break as we adjusted to life with younger dd. The
program was quality (if you agree with acadmeics at young ages), the
teachers were nice, and Orion loved it, but we chose not to send her
back for the second year for the same concerns as above. As we
strengthened our resolve to pursue hs, we did not want her
brainwashed into what 'school' is, and confused when she did not go
to that wonderful place when her friends do... We got a lot of crap
(and still are) from family but we really feel we made the right
decision. I have always seen learning, and my dh is coming to
understand the concept of learning from life. For 'preschool at
home' we are providing dds many opportunities and fostering their
interests as we see them develop. We tried being more structured, but
older dd is very independant, and we soon saw that she learns best on
her own terms. So, our (dh & I) private catch-phrase after getting
questioned or harrassed as to how preschool at home is going, or when
we see dds doing/saying something impressive is "guess the
homeschooling is going well"!

I will admit that while I feel unschooling is the way for our family,
I have been exploring different materials (ie for phonics/math), and
methods like Charlotte Mason, mostly out of fear. We don't even have
to notify in Ohio until age 6 but the kindergarten thing is freaking
me out a little...

Thanks for the inspiration this group provides.
Melissa Z.

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/13/04 6:16:05 PM, Zietlowfamily@... writes:

<< I will admit that while I feel unschooling is the way for our family,

I have been exploring different materials (ie for phonics/math), and

methods like Charlotte Mason, mostly out of fear. >>

Fear is contagious.
Don't make your kids afraid of phonics and math, nor afraid that they can
fail at unschooling. Try to overcome your fears so the kids can grow up in the
absence of them!

Sandra

pam sorooshian

Melissa --

I'm an unschooling mom, through and through, but I have always enjoyed
looking at different kinds of curriculum materials - it is MY hobby,
though, I don't impose it on my kids <G>.

Well, to be honest, sometimes, over the years, I've become so enamored
with some program or another that I've presented it to my kids and a
couple of times one of THEM caught my enthusiasm and said they wanted
to try it. Yeah -until something better came along, which was almost
immediately!

-pam
On May 13, 2004, at 4:30 PM, melissazietlow wrote:

> I will admit that while I feel unschooling is the way for our family,
> I have been exploring different materials (ie for phonics/math), and
> methods like Charlotte Mason, mostly out of fear. We don't even have
> to notify in Ohio until age 6 but the kindergarten thing is freaking
> me out a little...
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

melissazietlow

Well, hearing that that helps me. Not with the fear, neccessarily,
but to hear that others do sometimes try out materials/curriculum to
see how it will go. I am not an unschooling flunk-out!
At this point that is where I am at...I have been looking at few
things for phonics and math that seem to be gentle and relaxed (as
close to unschooling as curriculum can get?) because thinking about
helping dd explore these things makes me feel inept... And I also
think she might really enjoy them. But I am well aware that she may
not go for them at all, and I am okay with that.


--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
> Melissa --
>
> I'm an unschooling mom, through and through, but I have always
enjoyed
> looking at different kinds of curriculum materials - it is MY
hobby,
> though, I don't impose it on my kids <G>.
>
> Well, to be honest, sometimes, over the years, I've become so
enamored
> with some program or another that I've presented it to my kids and
a
> couple of times one of THEM caught my enthusiasm and said they
wanted
> to try it. Yeah -until something better came along, which was
almost
> immediately!
>
> -pam
> On May 13, 2004, at 4:30 PM, melissazietlow wrote:
>
> > I will admit that while I feel unschooling is the way for our
family,
> > I have been exploring different materials (ie for phonics/math),
and
> > methods like Charlotte Mason, mostly out of fear. We don't even
have
> > to notify in Ohio until age 6 but the kindergarten thing is
freaking
> > me out a little...
> National Home Education Network
> <www.NHEN.org>
> Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
> through information, networking and public relations.

melissazietlow

You're right, and that's why I decided to hang with you guys!

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> Fear is contagious.
> Don't make your kids afraid of phonics and math, nor afraid that
they can fail at unschooling. Try to overcome your fears so the
kids can grow up in the absence of them!
>
> Sandra

pam sorooshian

You can learn from my experience, though, and not waste your time or
money or risk that she'll feel bad about not liking something you seem
to think is important.

Instead, to satisfy that urge, I suggest you have a look at Anna
Kealoha's book, "Trust the Children," and Peggy Kaye's books, "Games
for Learning," "Games for Math," and "Games for Reading."

Have fun with those instead of thinking of them as "phonics" and "math"
- they're filled with interesting fun things to do - just fool around
with them.

Also - I need to say that I NEVER considered using any kind of phonics
program, I don't want to leave you misunderstanding me about that. I am
firmly convinced, based on many years of experience and interest in how
children learn, that early phonics is a serious risk to a child's
long-term reading and learning ability. I wouldn't take the risk. It
pushes one particular way of learning on a kid that may be in conflict
with that child's own individual learning style and that can really be
harmful to do to a young child. Look at what the schools are turning
out with all their early emphasis on phonics/reading. It isn't
necessary - let your child learn when she's good and ready to do it her
own way. In the meantime, surround her with a print-rich environment
and lots and lots of opportunity to play with pencils and paper and
crayons and markers and paint and stickers and stamps and post-it notes
and tape and staplers and paper of all kinds and maybe restaurant pads
and little tiny pads of paper and big giant sheets of paper and
scissors of all kinds and on and on with whatever interests her. And
read aloud all the absolutely wonderful picture books there are out
there - don't be in a hurry to move past those - and play stories and
music on cd's/tapes including storytellers and musicals and include
books with lots of repetition like Patty Wolcott's "The Marvelous Mud
Washing Machine" and "The Cake Story." Put your energy into high
quality books - every dollar spent on a very very special picture book
instead of some phonics program is a dollar VERY well spent. Please
don't hurry her.

For math - spend your money, instead, on puzzles and building materials
like lego and Kapla blocks and pattern blocks and geoboards and games,
especially games using dice and cards and strategy games like Othello
and Pente and visual games like SET.

I'm serious - I do like looking at what other homeschoolers are doing
as far as curriculum, but it is an interest of mine, I'm curious. But I
don't recommend trying them out on young children.

-pam
On May 13, 2004, at 7:08 PM, melissazietlow wrote:

> Well, hearing that that helps me. Not with the fear, neccessarily,
> but to hear that others do sometimes try out materials/curriculum to
> see how it will go. I am not an unschooling flunk-out!
> At this point that is where I am at...I have been looking at few
> things for phonics and math that seem to be gentle and relaxed (as
> close to unschooling as curriculum can get?) because thinking about
> helping dd explore these things makes me feel inept... And I also
> think she might really enjoy them. But I am well aware that she may
> not go for them at all, and I am okay with that.
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

melissazietlow

--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
> You can learn from my experience, though, and not waste your time
or money or risk that she'll feel bad about not liking something you
seem to think is important.


Pam,

Thank you for the book and game recommendations... I will be looking
them. I was very interested to read your thoughts on phonics and
math (had to laugh at your long list of materials but I get the
point). I have felt somewhat uncomfortable with almost all
approaches I've looked at, until I came across the Simply Phonics &
Math Series. It seems to be very relaxed and could be used very
loosely. I thought, just what **I** need to help when she seems
ready! But I have hesitated in buying, because deep down, I feel
like they might be unneccessary, and most likely go largely unused
(bought first two volumes of Five in a Row for preschool with same
idea and that's what happened with them. Now I have this twinge to
try again with them, because I spent the $$).

I browsed a few books at the library on helping children learn to
read using literature, reading readiness activities etc. Can you
recommend any more specific parent resources like this? And any other
math games for young children? And sites where I can find
intelligent resources/games? I really would rather spend the money on
quality items that have been recommended by those with experience.

I know I will feel better if I can trust myself more. Perhaps that
is the basis of my 'fear' more than trusting my kids to learn at the
right time for them -- that **I** will not be prepared to adequately
help them when that time comes. I am, after all, a product of public
schools! There is so much I don't know, and I need to become more
comfortable with the idea that I can/will learn right along with
them, and that is OKAY.

Thanks,
MZ

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/14/04 10:52:49 AM, Zietlowfamily@... writes:

<< But I have hesitated in buying, because deep down, I feel

like they might be unneccessary >>

Go with that feeling. <g>

<<Now I have this twinge to

try again with them, because I spent the $$). >>

If you bought a dozen donuts and only wanted six, would you eat the other six
"to save money"?

If they gave you two dozen for the price of one and you only wanted six,
would you eat the other 18?

What if someone gave you a good dal on a pickupload of donuts?

<<I browsed a few books at the library on helping children learn to

read using literature, reading readiness activities etc. Can you

recommend any more specific parent resources like this?>>

Too structured. Just read to them, watch movies with them, talk to them, if
they want to write a story maybe type it up for them, save it, print it, read
it to them sometimes.

Gradually they can learn naturally.

http://sandradodd.com/reading

lots of stories there.

-=-And any other math games for young children? -=-

You don't have to play games that are specifically "math games," especially
if they're young.

There are a couple of games my kids liked, though, that are HEAVILY
mathematical without using a single numeral and if you can find them, you should. Even
really young children can play them, and they best thing about them is they
will give you the mom a greater of understanding of what math looks like when
it's not numbers on paper.

A board game, maybe out of print, but maybe you'll find it at a garage sale
or thrift store or online somewhere: Bazaar. If you only get a partial set,
write and I'll tell you what you need to get to play it. It's doable, to
play with a partial set.

A card game called Set.

A computer game called Zoombinis.

-=- And sites where I can find

intelligent resources/games?-=-

Don't just look for "intelligent resources." You'll miss most of the best
stuff.

Here's an article to help you change the focus of what you're looking for:

http://sandradodd.com/seeingit

-=-I know I will feel better if I can trust myself more. Perhaps that

is the basis of my 'fear' more than trusting my kids to learn at the

right time for them -- that **I** will not be prepared to adequately

help them when that time comes. I am, after all, a product of public

schools! -=-

There are several deschooling articles linked after my own here:

http://sandradodd.com/deschooling

And as to other math ideas, here:

http://sandradodd.com/math

There are links to things Pam Sorooshian has on her site, too.

Sandra

Have a Nice Day!

If they gave you two dozen for the price of one and you only wanted six,
would you eat the other 18?***

I would!!!! LOL.

Just kidding, I couldn't resist!

Kristen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

catherine aceto

In a message dated 5/14/04 10:52:49 AM, Zietlowfamily@... writes:


<<Now I have this twinge to

try again with them, because I spent the $$). >>


Sell them on ebay or the homeschooling board at VegSource (I think that is what it is called). You can recoup a little money and get them out of your house.

We also like Set and Zoombinis here (my dd is 6.5).

-Cat




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pam sorooshian

On May 14, 2004, at 7:43 AM, melissazietlow wrote:

> Can you
> recommend any more specific parent resources like this? And any other
> math games for young children? And sites where I can find
> intelligent resources/games? I really would rather spend the money on
> quality items that have been recommended by those with experience.

Those books I always recommend are: "Trust the Children" by Anna
Kealoha and the learning books by Peggy Kaye. Those contain lots of
actual activities and games and are perfect for you having ideas at
your fingertips.

For helping you be more confident and secure, nothing beats reading
"The Book of Learning and Forgetting" by Frank Smith.

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

melissazietlow

--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
> Those books I always recommend are: "Trust the Children" by Anna
> Kealoha and the learning books by Peggy Kaye. Those contain lots of
> actual activities and games and are perfect for you having ideas at
> your fingertips.

I did look into the Peggy Kaye books on Amazon, and want to show them
to dh. Seem much easier and more fun than the relaxed curriculum...


> For helping you be more confident and secure, nothing beats reading
> "The Book of Learning and Forgetting" by Frank Smith.

I actually just put this one on hold at the library. Hopefully I can
find Trust the Children and order it too.

Thanks.

melissazietlow

>>If you bought a dozen donuts and only wanted six, would you eat the
other six "to save money"?>>
>>If they gave you two dozen for the price of one and you only wanted
six, would you eat the other 18?<<

My husband would, no joke. LOL!!



>>Just read to them, watch movies with them, talk to them, if they
want to write a story maybe type it up for them, save it, print it,
read it to them sometimes. Gradually they can learn naturally.<<

>>Don't just look for "intelligent resources." You'll miss most of
the best stuff.<<


Thanks for the links. Hope I can work out my hang-ups!

MZ

Have a Nice Day!

I keep meaning to write this. Peggy Kaye also has an email list. You could get a lot of her ideas for free right there.

Its on Yahoo. I'll look it up and see if I can find it.

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: melissazietlow
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:48 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Intro/Re: new with question


--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
> Those books I always recommend are: "Trust the Children" by Anna
> Kealoha and the learning books by Peggy Kaye. Those contain lots of
> actual activities and games and are perfect for you having ideas at
> your fingertips.

I did look into the Peggy Kaye books on Amazon, and want to show them
to dh. Seem much easier and more fun than the relaxed curriculum...


> For helping you be more confident and secure, nothing beats reading
> "The Book of Learning and Forgetting" by Frank Smith.

I actually just put this one on hold at the library. Hopefully I can
find Trust the Children and order it too.

Thanks.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/14/04 2:59:39 PM, Zietlowfamily@... writes:

<< >>If they gave you two dozen for the price of one and you only wanted

six, would you eat the other 18?<<



My husband would, no joke. LOL!! >>

I'm guessing his parents limited his sweets access.

My kids could buy two with their own money, and only eat one if they decided
their eyes had been bigger than their stomachs. They'd give the other away or
throw it in the trash.

The whole principle of what creates neediness and fear is at the root of
unschooling.

Parents fear that children won't learn math, so they teach them math, but in
the process they teach them to avoid it, to fear it, to only do it when they
have to.

Sometimes I think the side parenting stuff is not crucial to unschooling, and
other times I think it is.

Sandra

Fetteroll

on 5/14/04 5:56 PM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:

> I'm guessing his parents limited his sweets access.

Or he's self limiting. I don't remember any food limits at home but I can
pig out on foods that I don't buy because I "shouldn't". Like donuts and
potato chips. Giving myself permission to buy those foods has helped. I
still don't buy them much, but knowing that I could go buy a dozen donuts
helps me not scarf down a half dozen that someone else has brought to share.
;-)

Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/15/04 4:59:42 AM, fetteroll@... writes:

<< > I'm guessing his parents limited his sweets access.

Or he's self limiting. >>

The guy who would eat 18 donuts he didn't want wasn't ANYlimiting.

Sandra

melissazietlow

--- In [email protected], Fetteroll
<fetteroll@e...> wrote:
> on 5/14/04 5:56 PM, SandraDodd@a... at SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> > I'm guessing his parents limited his sweets access.
>
> Or he's self limiting. I don't remember any food limits at home but
I can
> pig out on foods that I don't buy because I "shouldn't". Like
donuts and
> potato chips. Giving myself permission to buy those foods has
helped. I
> still don't buy them much, but knowing that I could go buy a dozen
donuts
> helps me not scarf down a half dozen that someone else has brought
to share.
> ;-)

Actually, his thing is all about not wasting food. He gets really
hung up on finishing something so it does not go to waste. I point
out to him that it then goes to his WAIST!

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/15/04 4:49:15 PM, Zietlowfamily@... writes:

<< Actually, his thing is all about not wasting food. He gets really

hung up on finishing something so it does not go to waste. I point

out to him that it then goes to his WAIST! >>

Yeah, my husband used to be that way too.

I said it was less waste to put it straight down the sink than to run it
through his system and then down the toilet, or maybe some stuck. Same answer,
grosser version. <bwg>

Sandra

melissazietlow

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/15/04 4:49:15 PM, Zietlowfamily@w... writes:
>
<< Actually, his thing is all about not wasting food. He gets really
hung up on finishing something so it does not go to waste. I point
out to him that it then goes to his WAIST! >>
>
> Yeah, my husband used to be that way too.
>
> I said it was less waste to put it straight down the sink than to
run it through his system and then down the toilet, or maybe some
stuck. Same answer, grosser version. <bwg>
>
> Sandra

Guffaw! Snort! I will use this one on him. He appreciates gross!

MZ