Reintroduction and our problem over here
Backstrom kelli
Hi, my name is Kelli and I am mom to Molly (11), Sadie (3, almost 4) and Nora (18 months). I was on this list serve last summer and throughout part of last year but went back to graduate school and took a break from being involved in anything but maintainance and school. So we are all rediscovering unschooling (we have been pretty much unschooling this year too) but I am back here again looking for support and hearing all of your great ideas. So our problem here, and the reason I reintroduce myself today, is that my little Sadie who will be 4 on July 4th is so hard on herself it is startling to me and dh. We are trying to be supportive of things she wants to leave about with no pressure for perfection or for anything but that she enjoys herself but she always aims to achieve perfection and will try something over and over again until it is perfect to a startling degree. For example, she and I are learning sign language (it started with an episode of Cailou many months ago and has
developed in to quite a knowledge of this way of communicating) so she decided that she wants to learn how to sign the entire song of ABCs ( you know, with the "next time wont you sing with me" part and everything) so I showed it to her and she has spent an entire week going over and over and over it and if I suggest maybe we should take a break and try something else because she looks discouraged she says "NO" she wants to "get it right" and she wants to do it all by herself (oh she always says that ) I can understand the wanting to do it all by herself but tonight when she was trying to learn how to draw a heart and not being able to figure out how to do it she was a crying mess. I was trying to encourage her to trace mine or to keep practicing because that makes you better. I just felt like the poor thing is not even in a high pressure situation and she creates these things for herself. I also am looking for simple suggestions on how to teach her something like how to make a
heart without actually drawing the heart because then she is just trying to do what I did and also she gets frustrated when I help in anyway. Thanks Kelli
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
developed in to quite a knowledge of this way of communicating) so she decided that she wants to learn how to sign the entire song of ABCs ( you know, with the "next time wont you sing with me" part and everything) so I showed it to her and she has spent an entire week going over and over and over it and if I suggest maybe we should take a break and try something else because she looks discouraged she says "NO" she wants to "get it right" and she wants to do it all by herself (oh she always says that ) I can understand the wanting to do it all by herself but tonight when she was trying to learn how to draw a heart and not being able to figure out how to do it she was a crying mess. I was trying to encourage her to trace mine or to keep practicing because that makes you better. I just felt like the poor thing is not even in a high pressure situation and she creates these things for herself. I also am looking for simple suggestions on how to teach her something like how to make a
heart without actually drawing the heart because then she is just trying to do what I did and also she gets frustrated when I help in anyway. Thanks Kelli
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
Kelli --
I was JUST like her!! And I was like that at 4 years old, too. My mom
told me so many stories. One was about me getting new roller skates for
Christmas. ALL the kids in the neighborhood were out skating, but I was
in the garage, practicing over and over and over for hours and hours,
before I'd go out and skate with other kids.
And when I was 5 our local children's librarian came to our school to
talk about books and the library. She said if we could write our own
name we could get a library card of our own. My mom gave me a
stenographer's notebook and wrote my name at the top of the first page
so I could practice. I carried that notebook with me for several days
and wrote my name over and over and over and over until I'd filled the
ENTIRE notebook - I'd written my name over a thousand times. I didn't
want to DO anything else except write my name during that time. I
remember this - I remember sitting in our treehouse writing my name and
sitting in the back seat of our big car, writing my name, and cuddled
up in a big chair in the living room, writing my name, trying to make
it just absolutely "right."
I don't think this is so awful, first of all. The desire to do good
work never left me and I've done a lot of good work because of that
urge.
Moderating it a little, so it isn't so upsetting when she really can't
get something right - will come over time.
The very best thing you can do is make sure you and other people around
her try things that you're not great at and show that you're okay with
outcomes less than perfect.
When I was in college, my grandmother felt it was necessary to tell me,
"Pam, we'll still love you just as much even if you don't get all
'A's'" So clearly she was still seeing that in me.
It's okay - I still like to be good at what I do, but I figured out
sometime along the way that there are times to relax and just muddle
through and times when "good enough" is good enough <G>.
-pam
I was JUST like her!! And I was like that at 4 years old, too. My mom
told me so many stories. One was about me getting new roller skates for
Christmas. ALL the kids in the neighborhood were out skating, but I was
in the garage, practicing over and over and over for hours and hours,
before I'd go out and skate with other kids.
And when I was 5 our local children's librarian came to our school to
talk about books and the library. She said if we could write our own
name we could get a library card of our own. My mom gave me a
stenographer's notebook and wrote my name at the top of the first page
so I could practice. I carried that notebook with me for several days
and wrote my name over and over and over and over until I'd filled the
ENTIRE notebook - I'd written my name over a thousand times. I didn't
want to DO anything else except write my name during that time. I
remember this - I remember sitting in our treehouse writing my name and
sitting in the back seat of our big car, writing my name, and cuddled
up in a big chair in the living room, writing my name, trying to make
it just absolutely "right."
I don't think this is so awful, first of all. The desire to do good
work never left me and I've done a lot of good work because of that
urge.
Moderating it a little, so it isn't so upsetting when she really can't
get something right - will come over time.
The very best thing you can do is make sure you and other people around
her try things that you're not great at and show that you're okay with
outcomes less than perfect.
When I was in college, my grandmother felt it was necessary to tell me,
"Pam, we'll still love you just as much even if you don't get all
'A's'" So clearly she was still seeing that in me.
It's okay - I still like to be good at what I do, but I figured out
sometime along the way that there are times to relax and just muddle
through and times when "good enough" is good enough <G>.
-pam
On May 11, 2004, at 6:09 PM, Backstrom kelli wrote:
> For example, she and I are learning sign language (it started with an
> episode of Cailou many months ago and has
> developed in to quite a knowledge of this way of communicating) so
> she decided that she wants to learn how to sign the entire song of
> ABCs ( you know, with the "next time wont you sing with me" part and
> everything) so I showed it to her and she has spent an entire week
> going over and over and over it and if I suggest maybe we should take
> a break and try something else because she looks discouraged she says
> "NO" she wants to "get it right" and she wants to do it all by herself
> (oh she always says that )
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Pam Hartley
--- In [email protected], Backstrom
kelli <kellibac@y...> wrote:
support and hearing all of your great ideas. So our problem here,
and the reason I reintroduce myself today, is that my little Sadie
who will be 4 on July 4th is so hard on herself it is startling to me
and dh.
----------
When Brit was 4 she spent what seemed like an entire year
crying about everything, nothing, and occasionally something. As
you can imagine, this was fairly nerve-shattering for my husband
and I, who had had a calm and easy parenting journey,
comparatively, up to that point.
I mentioned this to a group of online friends and Paula Sjogy
sent me a copy of "Your Four Year Old" by Louise Ames (who
should be canonized) and it saved my sanity.
Sometimes, four year olds just have a really, really hard year and
being calm and rational and holding them and helping them the
best you can IS the best you can.
When our second daughter turned four, well, we braced
ourselves. <g> She never seemed to fall into the pit of
perfectionism that Brit did, though -- or at least didn't respond to
it the same.
Pam
kelli <kellibac@y...> wrote:
support and hearing all of your great ideas. So our problem here,
and the reason I reintroduce myself today, is that my little Sadie
who will be 4 on July 4th is so hard on herself it is startling to me
and dh.
----------
When Brit was 4 she spent what seemed like an entire year
crying about everything, nothing, and occasionally something. As
you can imagine, this was fairly nerve-shattering for my husband
and I, who had had a calm and easy parenting journey,
comparatively, up to that point.
I mentioned this to a group of online friends and Paula Sjogy
sent me a copy of "Your Four Year Old" by Louise Ames (who
should be canonized) and it saved my sanity.
Sometimes, four year olds just have a really, really hard year and
being calm and rational and holding them and helping them the
best you can IS the best you can.
When our second daughter turned four, well, we braced
ourselves. <g> She never seemed to fall into the pit of
perfectionism that Brit did, though -- or at least didn't respond to
it the same.
Pam
Backstrom kelli
thanks for the advise. I just found that book again (I read it with my 11 year old when she was four) Did that particular daughter ease up on herself once she got older? K
Pam Hartley <pamhartley@...> wrote:--- In [email protected], Backstrom
kelli <kellibac@y...> wrote:
support and hearing all of your great ideas. So our problem here,
and the reason I reintroduce myself today, is that my little Sadie
who will be 4 on July 4th is so hard on herself it is startling to me
and dh.
----------
When Brit was 4 she spent what seemed like an entire year
crying about everything, nothing, and occasionally something. As
you can imagine, this was fairly nerve-shattering for my husband
and I, who had had a calm and easy parenting journey,
comparatively, up to that point.
I mentioned this to a group of online friends and Paula Sjogy
sent me a copy of "Your Four Year Old" by Louise Ames (who
should be canonized) and it saved my sanity.
Sometimes, four year olds just have a really, really hard year and
being calm and rational and holding them and helping them the
best you can IS the best you can.
When our second daughter turned four, well, we braced
ourselves. <g> She never seemed to fall into the pit of
perfectionism that Brit did, though -- or at least didn't respond to
it the same.
Pam
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Hartley <pamhartley@...> wrote:--- In [email protected], Backstrom
kelli <kellibac@y...> wrote:
support and hearing all of your great ideas. So our problem here,
and the reason I reintroduce myself today, is that my little Sadie
who will be 4 on July 4th is so hard on herself it is startling to me
and dh.
----------
When Brit was 4 she spent what seemed like an entire year
crying about everything, nothing, and occasionally something. As
you can imagine, this was fairly nerve-shattering for my husband
and I, who had had a calm and easy parenting journey,
comparatively, up to that point.
I mentioned this to a group of online friends and Paula Sjogy
sent me a copy of "Your Four Year Old" by Louise Ames (who
should be canonized) and it saved my sanity.
Sometimes, four year olds just have a really, really hard year and
being calm and rational and holding them and helping them the
best you can IS the best you can.
When our second daughter turned four, well, we braced
ourselves. <g> She never seemed to fall into the pit of
perfectionism that Brit did, though -- or at least didn't respond to
it the same.
Pam
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J. Stauffer
<<<<I also am looking for simple suggestions on how to teach her something
like how to make a
language". Are these things you are actively trying to teach her? Or is
she ditty-bopping around and on her own is trying to make a heart for one of
her pictures?
makes a huge difference in the advice you will get.
julie S.
like how to make a
> heart without actually drawing the heart >>>>Got a question to start....you mention "teach" her and "learning sign
language". Are these things you are actively trying to teach her? Or is
she ditty-bopping around and on her own is trying to make a heart for one of
her pictures?
makes a huge difference in the advice you will get.
julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Backstrom kelli" <kellibac@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 8:09 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Reintroduction and our problem over here
> Hi, my name is Kelli and I am mom to Molly (11), Sadie (3, almost 4) and
Nora (18 months). I was on this list serve last summer and throughout part
of last year but went back to graduate school and took a break from being
involved in anything but maintainance and school. So we are all
rediscovering unschooling (we have been pretty much unschooling this year
too) but I am back here again looking for support and hearing all of your
great ideas. So our problem here, and the reason I reintroduce myself today,
is that my little Sadie who will be 4 on July 4th is so hard on herself it
is startling to me and dh. We are trying to be supportive of things she
wants to leave about with no pressure for perfection or for anything but
that she enjoys herself but she always aims to achieve perfection and will
try something over and over again until it is perfect to a startling degree.
For example, she and I are learning sign language (it started with an
episode of Cailou many months ago and has
> developed in to quite a knowledge of this way of communicating) so she
decided that she wants to learn how to sign the entire song of ABCs ( you
know, with the "next time wont you sing with me" part and everything) so I
showed it to her and she has spent an entire week going over and over and
over it and if I suggest maybe we should take a break and try something else
because she looks discouraged she says "NO" she wants to "get it right" and
she wants to do it all by herself (oh she always says that ) I can
understand the wanting to do it all by herself but tonight when she was
trying to learn how to draw a heart and not being able to figure out how to
do it she was a crying mess. I was trying to encourage her to trace mine or
to keep practicing because that makes you better. I just felt like the poor
thing is not even in a high pressure situation and she creates these things
for herself. I also am looking for simple suggestions on how to teach her
something like how to make a
> heart without actually drawing the heart because then she is just trying
to do what I did and also she gets frustrated when I help in anyway. Thanks
Kelli
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/12/04 11:51:12 AM, jnjstau@... writes:
<< <<<<I also am looking for simple suggestions on how to teach her something
like how to make a
I showed my kids by getting construction paper and cutting some strips wider
than the hearts should be, folding them in half, and showing them the motion
of the cut, and making some that weren't perfect to show them how to make the
narrower or wider.
Then they just messed with it. We practiced making diamonds and circles from
the folded paper too, by cutting on the folded side.
Not many words, more watching and trying and laughing.
Sandra
<< <<<<I also am looking for simple suggestions on how to teach her something
like how to make a
> heart without actually drawing the heart >>>> >>Like a Valentine's heart? A stylized heart?
I showed my kids by getting construction paper and cutting some strips wider
than the hearts should be, folding them in half, and showing them the motion
of the cut, and making some that weren't perfect to show them how to make the
narrower or wider.
Then they just messed with it. We practiced making diamonds and circles from
the folded paper too, by cutting on the folded side.
Not many words, more watching and trying and laughing.
Sandra
Backstrom kelli
thanks, having had a good nights sleep, I think she was very overtired too last night. Today we were able to talk about the hearts and she told me that sometimes she doesn't do things right but that she will when she gets older and then I was able to tell her that at 31 I still dont do a lot of things right but I do them right for "me" and she liked that. She had a great day at the park today, she is dirty and suntanned and sweaty and laying on her playroom floor immersed in dolls and her sisters:) Kelli
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 5/12/04 11:51:12 AM, jnjstau@... writes:
<< <<<<I also am looking for simple suggestions on how to teach her something
like how to make a
I showed my kids by getting construction paper and cutting some strips wider
than the hearts should be, folding them in half, and showing them the motion
of the cut, and making some that weren't perfect to show them how to make the
narrower or wider.
Then they just messed with it. We practiced making diamonds and circles from
the folded paper too, by cutting on the folded side.
Not many words, more watching and trying and laughing.
Sandra
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 5/12/04 11:51:12 AM, jnjstau@... writes:
<< <<<<I also am looking for simple suggestions on how to teach her something
like how to make a
> heart without actually drawing the heart >>>> >>Like a Valentine's heart? A stylized heart?
I showed my kids by getting construction paper and cutting some strips wider
than the hearts should be, folding them in half, and showing them the motion
of the cut, and making some that weren't perfect to show them how to make the
narrower or wider.
Then they just messed with it. We practiced making diamonds and circles from
the folded paper too, by cutting on the folded side.
Not many words, more watching and trying and laughing.
Sandra
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Backstrom kelli
This is definitely something she wanted to do. I really have little to do with both scenarios other than providing some help when needed and asked for. Kelli
"J. Stauffer" <jnjstau@...> wrote:<<<<I also am looking for simple suggestions on how to teach her something
like how to make a
language". Are these things you are actively trying to teach her? Or is
she ditty-bopping around and on her own is trying to make a heart for one of
her pictures?
makes a huge difference in the advice you will get.
julie S.
"J. Stauffer" <jnjstau@...> wrote:<<<<I also am looking for simple suggestions on how to teach her something
like how to make a
> heart without actually drawing the heart >>>>Got a question to start....you mention "teach" her and "learning sign
language". Are these things you are actively trying to teach her? Or is
she ditty-bopping around and on her own is trying to make a heart for one of
her pictures?
makes a huge difference in the advice you will get.
julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Backstrom kelli" <kellibac@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 8:09 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Reintroduction and our problem over here
> Hi, my name is Kelli and I am mom to Molly (11), Sadie (3, almost 4) and
Nora (18 months). I was on this list serve last summer and throughout part
of last year but went back to graduate school and took a break from being
involved in anything but maintainance and school. So we are all
rediscovering unschooling (we have been pretty much unschooling this year
too) but I am back here again looking for support and hearing all of your
great ideas. So our problem here, and the reason I reintroduce myself today,
is that my little Sadie who will be 4 on July 4th is so hard on herself it
is startling to me and dh. We are trying to be supportive of things she
wants to leave about with no pressure for perfection or for anything but
that she enjoys herself but she always aims to achieve perfection and will
try something over and over again until it is perfect to a startling degree.
For example, she and I are learning sign language (it started with an
episode of Cailou many months ago and has
> developed in to quite a knowledge of this way of communicating) so she
decided that she wants to learn how to sign the entire song of ABCs ( you
know, with the "next time wont you sing with me" part and everything) so I
showed it to her and she has spent an entire week going over and over and
over it and if I suggest maybe we should take a break and try something else
because she looks discouraged she says "NO" she wants to "get it right" and
she wants to do it all by herself (oh she always says that ) I can
understand the wanting to do it all by herself but tonight when she was
trying to learn how to draw a heart and not being able to figure out how to
do it she was a crying mess. I was trying to encourage her to trace mine or
to keep practicing because that makes you better. I just felt like the poor
thing is not even in a high pressure situation and she creates these things
for herself. I also am looking for simple suggestions on how to teach her
something like how to make a
> heart without actually drawing the heart because then she is just trying
to do what I did and also she gets frustrated when I help in anyway. Thanks
Kelli
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa H
How about giving her room to express her frustration without you having to do more than that. It is hard for a 4 year old to draw a heart, especially one that is "perfectly" symmetrical. Most adults can't do it. Let her have her full range of feelings and support her in that as much as you support her in learning sign language. Her feelings and emotional expressions are as important as what she can do. If you remain calm and accepting she can get strength from you.
Lisa H.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa H.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]