Ok, real problem here
Have a Nice Day!
Ok here goes. You guys always say you want to discuss "real" situations.
Well, here is a real situation for you that involves a real unschooler who practices real unschooling and mindful parenting.
My 12 year old daughter (remember her, the one with the friend issues and the one who has started smoking?) has gotten into some BIG trouble this time.
I won't go into the details but its big enough to be taken out of my hands if the offended party chooses to go that route.
At this point I feel she is forcing me to restrict her freedom. Honestly, I don't know what else to do. She is deliberately doing things that she *knows* are wrong. Its not a matter of not knowing or being confused. She *does* know. There is no question about it.
Why she is doing this I cannot guess, other than she wants to it in with the people she is hanging out with.
On the other hand, it doesn't make much difference who she is hanging out with. SHE has to be able to draw the line when she knows something is wrong.
The problem is she doesn't *want* to say "no".
She has freedom, unconditional love, and parents who are involved in her life. She has been encouraged and supported in every single one of her interests. Why does she need to "fit in" with this kind of crowd? And in fact, I think she wants to be the ringleader.
Can anyone really tell me that they would not step in and set limits on freedom in this situation for their child's own protection and long term well being?
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well, here is a real situation for you that involves a real unschooler who practices real unschooling and mindful parenting.
My 12 year old daughter (remember her, the one with the friend issues and the one who has started smoking?) has gotten into some BIG trouble this time.
I won't go into the details but its big enough to be taken out of my hands if the offended party chooses to go that route.
At this point I feel she is forcing me to restrict her freedom. Honestly, I don't know what else to do. She is deliberately doing things that she *knows* are wrong. Its not a matter of not knowing or being confused. She *does* know. There is no question about it.
Why she is doing this I cannot guess, other than she wants to it in with the people she is hanging out with.
On the other hand, it doesn't make much difference who she is hanging out with. SHE has to be able to draw the line when she knows something is wrong.
The problem is she doesn't *want* to say "no".
She has freedom, unconditional love, and parents who are involved in her life. She has been encouraged and supported in every single one of her interests. Why does she need to "fit in" with this kind of crowd? And in fact, I think she wants to be the ringleader.
Can anyone really tell me that they would not step in and set limits on freedom in this situation for their child's own protection and long term well being?
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On May 7, 2004, at 6:44 PM, Have a Nice Day! wrote:
Have you read "Parent-Teen Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach," by
Mira Kirshenbaum? If not, I think you should RUSH out and get it
quickly and read it immediately. Sounds like you have some rough times
ahead and I really really really really think this book will be
extremely useful!
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> Can anyone really tell me that they would not step in and set limitsI would, Kristen, if I felt she was in danger.
> on freedom in this situation for their child's own protection and long
> term well being?
Have you read "Parent-Teen Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach," by
Mira Kirshenbaum? If not, I think you should RUSH out and get it
quickly and read it immediately. Sounds like you have some rough times
ahead and I really really really really think this book will be
extremely useful!
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Fetteroll
on 5/7/04 9:44 PM, Have a Nice Day! at litlrooh@... wrote:
can tackle the symptoms but will it fix what's causing the symptoms?
I know that's not much help!
But I'd definitely second Pam's recommendation of Parent/Teen Breakthrough.
Joyce
> Why she is doing this I cannot guessWithout a reason, the advice probably can't be much more than general. You
can tackle the symptoms but will it fix what's causing the symptoms?
I know that's not much help!
But I'd definitely second Pam's recommendation of Parent/Teen Breakthrough.
Joyce
Have a Nice Day!
THank you so much Pam.
I will do that.
Kristen
I will do that.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: pam sorooshian
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Ok, real problem here
On May 7, 2004, at 6:44 PM, Have a Nice Day! wrote:
> Can anyone really tell me that they would not step in and set limits
> on freedom in this situation for their child's own protection and long
> term well being?
I would, Kristen, if I felt she was in danger.
Have you read "Parent-Teen Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach," by
Mira Kirshenbaum? If not, I think you should RUSH out and get it
quickly and read it immediately. Sounds like you have some rough times
ahead and I really really really really think this book will be
extremely useful!
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
Without a reason, the advice probably can't be much more than general. You
can tackle the symptoms but will it fix what's causing the symptoms?
***********************************
The reason is what eludes me, but here is what I think is happening. I think the internal restlessness she feels (maybe its boredom but it seems like more than that) is something that is uncomfortable for her (as it is with most people).
But rather than explore who she is, and become comfortable with herself, she is avoiding it altogether and burying herself in the identity of her "friends".
I was a lot like her when I was her age. I remember the feelings. And I did the same thing. But, I had a positive peer group and that kept me safe until I finally *did* work through my feelings and my identity.
My plan is to get more positive people into her life but that will take some time.
In the meantime, I want her to spend more time with me and her dad and less time with her "friends".
I don't intend this as a punishment, but I'm sure she'll see it that way. I do intend it to be a safety net, and a way for her to proactively work through her feelings with guidance and support.
Kristen
can tackle the symptoms but will it fix what's causing the symptoms?
***********************************
The reason is what eludes me, but here is what I think is happening. I think the internal restlessness she feels (maybe its boredom but it seems like more than that) is something that is uncomfortable for her (as it is with most people).
But rather than explore who she is, and become comfortable with herself, she is avoiding it altogether and burying herself in the identity of her "friends".
I was a lot like her when I was her age. I remember the feelings. And I did the same thing. But, I had a positive peer group and that kept me safe until I finally *did* work through my feelings and my identity.
My plan is to get more positive people into her life but that will take some time.
In the meantime, I want her to spend more time with me and her dad and less time with her "friends".
I don't intend this as a punishment, but I'm sure she'll see it that way. I do intend it to be a safety net, and a way for her to proactively work through her feelings with guidance and support.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Fetteroll
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Ok, real problem here
on 5/7/04 9:44 PM, Have a Nice Day! at litlrooh@... wrote:
> Why she is doing this I cannot guess
Without a reason, the advice probably can't be much more than general. You
can tackle the symptoms but will it fix what's causing the symptoms?
I know that's not much help!
But I'd definitely second Pam's recommendation of Parent/Teen Breakthrough.
Joyce
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Danielle Conger
The reason is what eludes me, but here is what I think is happening. I
think the internal restlessness she feels (maybe its boredom but it seems
like more than that) is something that is uncomfortable for her (as it is
with most people).
"friends".
==============
Maybe that *is* her way of exploring who she is--by trying on other kinds of
identities to see which fit and which don't. I think it's a legitimate
(albeit potentially dangerous) way of figuring out who we want to be. Maybe
try acknowledging that instead of dismissing it as an escape or easy way
out. Try talking to her about the different kinds of identities out there
and the logical extension of those identities. "Rebel" or "bad girl" are two
very attractive identities in our culture for various reasons. Perhaps try
to find better ways for her to try out those modes of being.
Maybe you could buy several different teen magazines, go through them with
her and help her identify what kinds of people she sees in there and which
traits she finds attractive. I'm thinking that the more positive ways you
can interact with her through this the better. Let her think you're helping
her figure out and become who she is rather than preventing her from
becoming who she thinks she wants to be. Know what I mean?
Of course it's tricky. And my girls are still young, so this is all
hypothetical advice based on what I remember having gone through and what
might have helped me. My mom pretty much did it all wrong. Don't make that
mistake or you might end up pushing her in the exact directions you wish to
avoid.
Good luck!
--Danielle
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
think the internal restlessness she feels (maybe its boredom but it seems
like more than that) is something that is uncomfortable for her (as it is
with most people).
>she is avoiding it altogether and burying herself in the identity of her
> But rather than explore who she is, and become comfortable with herself,
"friends".
==============
Maybe that *is* her way of exploring who she is--by trying on other kinds of
identities to see which fit and which don't. I think it's a legitimate
(albeit potentially dangerous) way of figuring out who we want to be. Maybe
try acknowledging that instead of dismissing it as an escape or easy way
out. Try talking to her about the different kinds of identities out there
and the logical extension of those identities. "Rebel" or "bad girl" are two
very attractive identities in our culture for various reasons. Perhaps try
to find better ways for her to try out those modes of being.
Maybe you could buy several different teen magazines, go through them with
her and help her identify what kinds of people she sees in there and which
traits she finds attractive. I'm thinking that the more positive ways you
can interact with her through this the better. Let her think you're helping
her figure out and become who she is rather than preventing her from
becoming who she thinks she wants to be. Know what I mean?
Of course it's tricky. And my girls are still young, so this is all
hypothetical advice based on what I remember having gone through and what
might have helped me. My mom pretty much did it all wrong. Don't make that
mistake or you might end up pushing her in the exact directions you wish to
avoid.
Good luck!
--Danielle
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
Elizabeth Hill
** But rather than explore who she is, and become comfortable with
herself, she is avoiding it altogether and burying herself in the
identity of her "friends".**
I understand that you think some of her friends are risky.
From some of your posts earlier this week (?) my perception is that you
don't want to allow her to just hang out with friends (or with these
friends). I feel that you may have some disapproval issues about
"hanging out".
Maybe her age is one of those brain reorganization ages when kids don't
focus well and may need lots of idle time to "find themselves". You and
she seem to be in conflict about whether hanging out type socializing is
okay.
If you can't allow her to hang out with her current friends, please try
to support other hanging out options. Don't make the mistake of
pressuring her to use her time "constructively".
Betsy
herself, she is avoiding it altogether and burying herself in the
identity of her "friends".**
I understand that you think some of her friends are risky.
From some of your posts earlier this week (?) my perception is that you
don't want to allow her to just hang out with friends (or with these
friends). I feel that you may have some disapproval issues about
"hanging out".
Maybe her age is one of those brain reorganization ages when kids don't
focus well and may need lots of idle time to "find themselves". You and
she seem to be in conflict about whether hanging out type socializing is
okay.
If you can't allow her to hang out with her current friends, please try
to support other hanging out options. Don't make the mistake of
pressuring her to use her time "constructively".
Betsy
Have a Nice Day!
Betsy,
I have absolutely no problem with 'hanging out'. What I object to is what they are doing *while* they are hanging out.
I absolutely agree that kids go through a period of "idle time" and I would never insist on interrupting that to do "constructive" things.
However, "idle time" is not what is happening here. They aren't idly hanging out. They are actively being destructive in a way that hurts themselves and others. My daughter feels the need to be "busy" with things, so I will help her stay busy by "strewing new things in her path", but the goal isn't so much to "do constructive things". The goal is just to help her find herself.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have absolutely no problem with 'hanging out'. What I object to is what they are doing *while* they are hanging out.
I absolutely agree that kids go through a period of "idle time" and I would never insist on interrupting that to do "constructive" things.
However, "idle time" is not what is happening here. They aren't idly hanging out. They are actively being destructive in a way that hurts themselves and others. My daughter feels the need to be "busy" with things, so I will help her stay busy by "strewing new things in her path", but the goal isn't so much to "do constructive things". The goal is just to help her find herself.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J. Stauffer
<<<<Can anyone really tell me that they would not step in and set limits on
freedom in this situation for their child's own protection and long term
well being?>>>
What is it that you think setting limits is going to accomplish? If she
isn't interested in following the limits set by the law, if she isn't
interested in doing what she knows is right, if she isn't interested in
listening to the people who love her......what is locking her in her room
going to do?
My bet would be she would just sneak out as soon as you weren't looking (at
best) or she would no longer be willing to have a working relationship with
you (at worst).
Julie S.---who had a great family but consistently broke the law throughout
her teen years just because she wanted to
freedom in this situation for their child's own protection and long term
well being?>>>
What is it that you think setting limits is going to accomplish? If she
isn't interested in following the limits set by the law, if she isn't
interested in doing what she knows is right, if she isn't interested in
listening to the people who love her......what is locking her in her room
going to do?
My bet would be she would just sneak out as soon as you weren't looking (at
best) or she would no longer be willing to have a working relationship with
you (at worst).
Julie S.---who had a great family but consistently broke the law throughout
her teen years just because she wanted to
----- Original Message -----
From: "Have a Nice Day!" <litlrooh@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:44 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Ok, real problem here
> Ok here goes. You guys always say you want to discuss "real" situations.
>
> Well, here is a real situation for you that involves a real unschooler who
practices real unschooling and mindful parenting.
>
> My 12 year old daughter (remember her, the one with the friend issues and
the one who has started smoking?) has gotten into some BIG trouble this
time.
>
> I won't go into the details but its big enough to be taken out of my hands
if the offended party chooses to go that route.
>
> At this point I feel she is forcing me to restrict her freedom. Honestly,
I don't know what else to do. She is deliberately doing things that she
*knows* are wrong. Its not a matter of not knowing or being confused. She
*does* know. There is no question about it.
>
> Why she is doing this I cannot guess, other than she wants to it in with
the people she is hanging out with.
>
> On the other hand, it doesn't make much difference who she is hanging out
with. SHE has to be able to draw the line when she knows something is
wrong.
>
> The problem is she doesn't *want* to say "no".
>
> She has freedom, unconditional love, and parents who are involved in her
life. She has been encouraged and supported in every single one of her
interests. Why does she need to "fit in" with this kind of crowd? And in
fact, I think she wants to be the ringleader.
>
> Can anyone really tell me that they would not step in and set limits on
freedom in this situation for their child's own protection and long term
well being?
>
> Kristen
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Elizabeth Hill
**My daughter feels the need to be "busy" with things, so I will help
her stay busy by "strewing new things in her path"...**
Okay. I noticed that you were suggesting activities and she was
shooting down your suggestions. That, suggested to me that she doesn't
want to take suggestions. I'm still kind of contrary when my mom
suggests things to me, and I'm 44. (Still a teenager at heart, apparently.)
Betsy
her stay busy by "strewing new things in her path"...**
Okay. I noticed that you were suggesting activities and she was
shooting down your suggestions. That, suggested to me that she doesn't
want to take suggestions. I'm still kind of contrary when my mom
suggests things to me, and I'm 44. (Still a teenager at heart, apparently.)
Betsy
pam sorooshian
On May 8, 2004, at 9:37 AM, Danielle Conger wrote:
I haven't read it yet, but the current issue of Time Magazine is about
teenager's brains.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> Maybe that *is* her way of exploring who she is--by trying on otherKristen, does this strike you as a possibility?
> kinds of
> identities to see which fit and which don't. I think it's a legitimate
> (albeit potentially dangerous) way of figuring out who we want to be.
I haven't read it yet, but the current issue of Time Magazine is about
teenager's brains.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Mary
From: "Have a Nice Day!" <litlrooh@...>
<<I have absolutely no problem with 'hanging out'. What I object to is what
they are doing *while* they are hanging out.
I absolutely agree that kids go through a period of "idle time" and I would
never insist on interrupting that to do "constructive" things.
However, "idle time" is not what is happening here. They aren't idly
hanging out. They are actively being destructive in a way that hurts
themselves and others. My daughter feels the need to be "busy" with things,
so I will help her stay busy by "strewing new things in her path", but the
goal isn't so much to "do constructive things". The goal is just to help
her find herself.>>
I would imagine that everyone's circumstances concerning teenagers who seem
to rebel are different. No two families are alike, and that makes advice
hard to work into personal situations.
I had a lot of problems with my daughter when she was younger. Mine with her
were due to depression, divorce and school situations, not to mention family
that did everything wrong when it came to loving her. Myself included.
BUT, we did find our way and now she's 18, and for quite awhile, we have had
a wonderful relationship. I still have people marvel at how she is with me.
In fact, she's coming along on our next big homeschool picnic just to hang
out with me and the other kids. But it wasn't easy getting here. Just know
it is possible.
When the problems came at 12 and 13 with her, I was into taking away
priveleges. Didn't phase her in the least. Just made her more angry. She was
never grounded for long but had at one time, everything taken away from her.
That made her good around the house, just hell on wheels when she was away
from us.
We went through her sneaking out. (not at our house, at her cousins) She
hung out with all the wrong kids. We've been called by the police to come
and get her. She's lied about where she was, who she was with and what she
was doing. She's had physical problems of her own because of her actions.
Nothing we were actually "doing" was working at all. So we stopped doing
anything. She came and went as she pleased while we all calmed down. Then we
talked. A lot! About how we felt, what we were scared of and what could
possibly happen. We made a game plan, all 3 of us, as to alternatives in her
life. Different paths she could take. She was free to chose any one she
wanted. We made it clear that what we would not allow was for her behavior
to interfere with the safety of the other people in this house. That we
still did have a legal responsibility for her because of her age. That there
were things she did that would cost us our comfort here at home.
Depending on what was going on at the time, we let her know exactly what we
would do to help and what we wouldn't or couldn't do. Then we left it all up
to her. That was the defining point in her life and our relationship.
She also had told us that as much as she listened to what we had to say, and
as much as she valued our opionions, she had the need to find out for
herself. That was her way of learning and finding herself. She learns by
doing and a lot of the times, it's the hard way.
So as much as I wished she would have waited to do all sorts of things,
she's so much more grounded now than kids her age. I also have to say we
didn't freak out over what a lot of kids do. (for this example I'm talking
school kids) The sex, drugs, drinking and smoking had to not be a major big
deal in order to be able to talk to her about these things. If I freaked at
the mention of sex or smoking, then talking about it would be out of the
question.
She still makes choices that I would prefer were different. But it's not my
life, it's hers.
I will also say too that when it came to a matter of safety, we did what we
could. But even at that, we talked about the choices, what our fears were,
what could happen to her, and when we would step in and make a decision. We
did have 3 smaller kids to consider.
We would do things so differently if we had it all over again. But we did
what we knew at the time. For us it worked out well. We're not only very
proud of how far she's come, and love her dearly, but we also really like
her a lot!!!
If you want to talk further about anything, feel free to email me.
Mary B
<<I have absolutely no problem with 'hanging out'. What I object to is what
they are doing *while* they are hanging out.
I absolutely agree that kids go through a period of "idle time" and I would
never insist on interrupting that to do "constructive" things.
However, "idle time" is not what is happening here. They aren't idly
hanging out. They are actively being destructive in a way that hurts
themselves and others. My daughter feels the need to be "busy" with things,
so I will help her stay busy by "strewing new things in her path", but the
goal isn't so much to "do constructive things". The goal is just to help
her find herself.>>
I would imagine that everyone's circumstances concerning teenagers who seem
to rebel are different. No two families are alike, and that makes advice
hard to work into personal situations.
I had a lot of problems with my daughter when she was younger. Mine with her
were due to depression, divorce and school situations, not to mention family
that did everything wrong when it came to loving her. Myself included.
BUT, we did find our way and now she's 18, and for quite awhile, we have had
a wonderful relationship. I still have people marvel at how she is with me.
In fact, she's coming along on our next big homeschool picnic just to hang
out with me and the other kids. But it wasn't easy getting here. Just know
it is possible.
When the problems came at 12 and 13 with her, I was into taking away
priveleges. Didn't phase her in the least. Just made her more angry. She was
never grounded for long but had at one time, everything taken away from her.
That made her good around the house, just hell on wheels when she was away
from us.
We went through her sneaking out. (not at our house, at her cousins) She
hung out with all the wrong kids. We've been called by the police to come
and get her. She's lied about where she was, who she was with and what she
was doing. She's had physical problems of her own because of her actions.
Nothing we were actually "doing" was working at all. So we stopped doing
anything. She came and went as she pleased while we all calmed down. Then we
talked. A lot! About how we felt, what we were scared of and what could
possibly happen. We made a game plan, all 3 of us, as to alternatives in her
life. Different paths she could take. She was free to chose any one she
wanted. We made it clear that what we would not allow was for her behavior
to interfere with the safety of the other people in this house. That we
still did have a legal responsibility for her because of her age. That there
were things she did that would cost us our comfort here at home.
Depending on what was going on at the time, we let her know exactly what we
would do to help and what we wouldn't or couldn't do. Then we left it all up
to her. That was the defining point in her life and our relationship.
She also had told us that as much as she listened to what we had to say, and
as much as she valued our opionions, she had the need to find out for
herself. That was her way of learning and finding herself. She learns by
doing and a lot of the times, it's the hard way.
So as much as I wished she would have waited to do all sorts of things,
she's so much more grounded now than kids her age. I also have to say we
didn't freak out over what a lot of kids do. (for this example I'm talking
school kids) The sex, drugs, drinking and smoking had to not be a major big
deal in order to be able to talk to her about these things. If I freaked at
the mention of sex or smoking, then talking about it would be out of the
question.
She still makes choices that I would prefer were different. But it's not my
life, it's hers.
I will also say too that when it came to a matter of safety, we did what we
could. But even at that, we talked about the choices, what our fears were,
what could happen to her, and when we would step in and make a decision. We
did have 3 smaller kids to consider.
We would do things so differently if we had it all over again. But we did
what we knew at the time. For us it worked out well. We're not only very
proud of how far she's come, and love her dearly, but we also really like
her a lot!!!
If you want to talk further about anything, feel free to email me.
Mary B
mamaaj2000
--- In [email protected], "Mary" <mummy124@b...>
wrote:
and just listening? I'm guessing it's not easy to get her to talk.
You might have to come out and tell her that you're not going to
talk/lecture/comment about this situation or her life in general
until she asks your opinion. Let her think about it, have the option
to talk to go without judgement, etc.
The reason I say this is because of an experience of mine as a
teenager. Some other kids were doing something mean to one girl and
for some reason I told my parents about it and was laughing. I was
trying to work out how it could be so mean and yet be funny at the
same time. I also was thinking about telling the girl that she was
being tricked, so it's not like all my thoughts were evil, ya know!
Anywho, my parents jumped all over me and lectured me, never letting
me get a word in. Needless to say, I never said another word about
it. If they had tried to have a conversation or just asked me what I
thought or gave me space to figure out what I thought, it would have
been great.
So I find myself wondering what your daughter thinks about what she'd
done. She might be telling you she doesn't feel guilty and enjoys
being bad, but there's a good chance that's just her arguing with
you. Can't count the times I said I didn't feel bad when I sure did
inside. I just think there's a chance that if you aren't telling her
she's being bad, she might turn around and tell you that.
Okay, I don't think you told us what your reaction has been, so
forgive me for assuming you've said something along those lines!
Best of luck, Kristen. I can only imagine how scared I would be in
your place.
--aj
wrote:
> Nothing we were actually "doing" was working at all. So we stoppeddoing
> anything. She came and went as she pleased while we all calmeddown. Then we
> talked. A lot! About how we felt, what we were scared of and whatcould
> possibly happen. We made a game plan, all 3 of us, as toalternatives in her
> life.At the risk of saying something simplistic, what about not talking
and just listening? I'm guessing it's not easy to get her to talk.
You might have to come out and tell her that you're not going to
talk/lecture/comment about this situation or her life in general
until she asks your opinion. Let her think about it, have the option
to talk to go without judgement, etc.
The reason I say this is because of an experience of mine as a
teenager. Some other kids were doing something mean to one girl and
for some reason I told my parents about it and was laughing. I was
trying to work out how it could be so mean and yet be funny at the
same time. I also was thinking about telling the girl that she was
being tricked, so it's not like all my thoughts were evil, ya know!
Anywho, my parents jumped all over me and lectured me, never letting
me get a word in. Needless to say, I never said another word about
it. If they had tried to have a conversation or just asked me what I
thought or gave me space to figure out what I thought, it would have
been great.
So I find myself wondering what your daughter thinks about what she'd
done. She might be telling you she doesn't feel guilty and enjoys
being bad, but there's a good chance that's just her arguing with
you. Can't count the times I said I didn't feel bad when I sure did
inside. I just think there's a chance that if you aren't telling her
she's being bad, she might turn around and tell you that.
Okay, I don't think you told us what your reaction has been, so
forgive me for assuming you've said something along those lines!
Best of luck, Kristen. I can only imagine how scared I would be in
your place.
--aj
[email protected]
aj wrote:
***** I'm guessing it's not easy to get her to talk.
You might have to come out and tell her that you're not going to
talk/lecture/comment about this situation or her life in general
until she asks your opinion. Let her think about it, have the option
to talk to go without judgment, etc. *****
Kirsten,
I really feel for you.
Some of the best conversations I've had with Madelyn dd13 have
started by me reading her things from this list or unschooling.com
and asking her opinion on what the best advice would be.
This has done at least 2 things for us:
1. allowed us to discuss what-could-be-heated topics in a non-charged
atmosphere
2. let her in on exactly what mindful parenting is and what the
alternative could be
Guess I'm just trying to give you some ideas for conversation
starters that might allow you to listen to where your dd is coming
from and what her perspectives are. . . . . and at the same time let
her know (without directly telling her) where you are trying to go in
your relationship with her.
I second (or third) the
"Parent/Teen Breakthrough: the Relationship Approach"
recommendation - really helped me in my journey to mindful
parenting.
Mercedes
***** I'm guessing it's not easy to get her to talk.
You might have to come out and tell her that you're not going to
talk/lecture/comment about this situation or her life in general
until she asks your opinion. Let her think about it, have the option
to talk to go without judgment, etc. *****
Kirsten,
I really feel for you.
Some of the best conversations I've had with Madelyn dd13 have
started by me reading her things from this list or unschooling.com
and asking her opinion on what the best advice would be.
This has done at least 2 things for us:
1. allowed us to discuss what-could-be-heated topics in a non-charged
atmosphere
2. let her in on exactly what mindful parenting is and what the
alternative could be
Guess I'm just trying to give you some ideas for conversation
starters that might allow you to listen to where your dd is coming
from and what her perspectives are. . . . . and at the same time let
her know (without directly telling her) where you are trying to go in
your relationship with her.
I second (or third) the
"Parent/Teen Breakthrough: the Relationship Approach"
recommendation - really helped me in my journey to mindful
parenting.
Mercedes
Have a Nice Day!
Thanks Mary.
Your story is very encouraging. I believe in her. And I believe this will all work out. I know what you mean about not freaking out.
We had an incident a year ago that caught me so totally off guard that I *did* freak out. I think that was the beginning of growing pains for me, realizing that she was becoming her own person *already*. I wasn't ready like I was with my son.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your story is very encouraging. I believe in her. And I believe this will all work out. I know what you mean about not freaking out.
We had an incident a year ago that caught me so totally off guard that I *did* freak out. I think that was the beginning of growing pains for me, realizing that she was becoming her own person *already*. I wasn't ready like I was with my son.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
On May 8, 2004, at 9:37 AM, Danielle Conger wrote:
I haven't read it yet, but the current issue of Time Magazine is about
teenager's brains.
Funny you should mention the TIME article. I didn't get a chance to read it, but I saw it sitting on the desk at work. If I have time tonight, I'll read it.
And yes, I do think its a real possibility that she is "trying on identities". In fact, that was my first thought. I am just perplexed that she would feel the need to try on such "dangerous" personalities when we really haven't given her any reason to. That was what made me think there might be more to it, like trying to escape oneself.
I have read about half of the book you recommended (Forgot I actually had a copy!). I'm coming up with other possibilities for why this might be happening. I won't really know though till I talk with her.
The good news is that she *does* talk to me. We've been working on that for quite awhile now. I guess we'll just have to keep at it.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Maybe that *is* her way of exploring who she is--by trying on otherKristen, does this strike you as a possibility?
> kinds of
> identities to see which fit and which don't. I think it's a legitimate
> (albeit potentially dangerous) way of figuring out who we want to be.
I haven't read it yet, but the current issue of Time Magazine is about
teenager's brains.
Funny you should mention the TIME article. I didn't get a chance to read it, but I saw it sitting on the desk at work. If I have time tonight, I'll read it.
And yes, I do think its a real possibility that she is "trying on identities". In fact, that was my first thought. I am just perplexed that she would feel the need to try on such "dangerous" personalities when we really haven't given her any reason to. That was what made me think there might be more to it, like trying to escape oneself.
I have read about half of the book you recommended (Forgot I actually had a copy!). I'm coming up with other possibilities for why this might be happening. I won't really know though till I talk with her.
The good news is that she *does* talk to me. We've been working on that for quite awhile now. I guess we'll just have to keep at it.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
What is it that you think setting limits is going to accomplish? If she
isn't interested in following the limits set by the law, if she isn't
interested in doing what she knows is right, if she isn't interested in
listening to the people who love her......what is locking her in her room
going to do?************
Good point.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
isn't interested in following the limits set by the law, if she isn't
interested in doing what she knows is right, if she isn't interested in
listening to the people who love her......what is locking her in her room
going to do?************
Good point.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
Thanks Mercedes. I'll keep your suggestions in mind. I know I've done that for other things. It might be good though to try it.
I could use the suggestion for the teen magazine thing, and maybe go to the teen question and answer section. We could talk about that too.
Kristen
Kirsten,
I really feel for you.
Some of the best conversations I've had with Madelyn dd13 have
started by me reading her things from this list or unschooling.com
and asking her opinion on what the best advice would be.
This has done at least 2 things for us:
1. allowed us to discuss what-could-be-heated topics in a non-charged
atmosphere
2. let her in on exactly what mindful parenting is and what the
alternative could be
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I could use the suggestion for the teen magazine thing, and maybe go to the teen question and answer section. We could talk about that too.
Kristen
Kirsten,
I really feel for you.
Some of the best conversations I've had with Madelyn dd13 have
started by me reading her things from this list or unschooling.com
and asking her opinion on what the best advice would be.
This has done at least 2 things for us:
1. allowed us to discuss what-could-be-heated topics in a non-charged
atmosphere
2. let her in on exactly what mindful parenting is and what the
alternative could be
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/8/04 7:47:09 PM, mulwiler@... writes:
<< Some of the best conversations I've had with Madelyn dd13 have
started by me reading her things from this list or unschooling.com
and asking her opinion on what the best advice would be. >>
That is a really brilliant suggestion.
It might not work in the primary situation under discussion but I bet there
are a few dozen others here who might add that to their options/ideas list for
next time!
Sandra
<< Some of the best conversations I've had with Madelyn dd13 have
started by me reading her things from this list or unschooling.com
and asking her opinion on what the best advice would be. >>
That is a really brilliant suggestion.
It might not work in the primary situation under discussion but I bet there
are a few dozen others here who might add that to their options/ideas list for
next time!
Sandra