Deb Lewis

I'm watering the lawn in my pajamas.

Astounding. Not only is there room in my pajamas for a 14 foot
trampoline but now it seems an entire backyard.

Still not an emperor of anything as far as I can tell, but if I can stay
in my pajamas long enough (and dang, it's starting to get crowded in
here) maybe things will change.


Deb L, pajama'd smart ass.

[email protected]

<< I'm watering the lawn in my pajamas.

Astounding. Not only is there room in my pajamas for a 14 foot
trampoline but now it seems an entire backyard. >>


My kids have gone to the bathroom in their pants.
(Not lately, but having a whole bathroom there was impressive.)

-=-Still not an emperor of anything as far as I can tell, but if I can stay
in my pajamas long enough (and dang, it's starting to get crowded in
here) maybe things will change. -=-

Things change inside people, if the people want to change.

Word play is central to our unschooling.

Meanness seems to be central to other peoples' Look at this electronic sack
of flaming virtual dogshit I got a week and some back:

-=-You're a total dork! I can only imagine how unpleasant looking you are. I
hear that you are mean to extremely nice people because you are a pig! It
must be horrible to be you. There is no way that you are even close to thin. I
would bet everything that I know that you are homely and nasty looking. Good
luck you gross pathetic piece of of poor genes.
-=-

"SKAJacobson@..." is where it came from. Anyone know who that is? If
it's the husband or son of anyone here, please consider NOT obsessing about
homeschooling insecurities at home in front of your unstable relatives. Thanks.

I'm guessing it's someone from a family where weight is made a big issue.
Wasn't there someone here (or at the forum?) going on (and off) about an
overweight child with behavior issues?

Well, whoever it was, it hurt him (or her) more than it did me.
And his mom, or whoever told him someone had been mean to her didn't do me
any harm, but did the peace of her family some big damage.

Kind of, someone tried to use the bathroom in his pants on my porch, but
since it was only e-mail, all the real shit stayed at his house!

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/5/2004 2:31:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
-=-You're a total dork! I can only imagine how unpleasant looking you are. I
hear that you are mean to extremely nice people because you are a pig! It
must be horrible to be you. There is no way that you are even close to thin.
I
would bet everything that I know that you are homely and nasty looking. Good
luck you gross pathetic piece of of poor genes.
-=-<<<<<

Strange how much looks play a part.

I've known some skinny, ugly, nice people
and some fat, ugly, nice people
and some skinny, ugly, mean people
and some fat, ugly, mean people
and some skinny, pretty, nice people
and some fat, pretty, nice people
and some skinny, pretty, mean people
and some fat, pretty, mean people
and some.....

Someone's maybe too hung up on looks?

Odd.

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

averyschmidt

> Things change inside people, if the people want to change.

On another list some people were ranting about unrealistic "lofty
ideals" when it comes to unschooling (in other words not wanting to
make any uncomfortable changes and so calling those
changes "unrealistic" even when many people manage joyfully).
I said something to the effect of: I don't always live up to my
ideals, but I do stay focused on what my ideals are and work toward
them. Someone posted something huffy like- but don't you see a
difference between living up to your own ideals and living up to
ideals that someone else has *put* on you? I don't get how someone
can put an ideal on me and make me live it.

I think mabye what she meant was that if someone opens our eyes to
something that makes sense but we aren't ready to make the paradigm
shift we now have to live with the guilt of knowing a better way and
still not living it.
It reminds me of a friend (whose kids are in school) who started
reading Dumbing Us Down out of curiosity but quickly put it down
since it made so much sense and she didn't want to feel guilty about
sending them. So... is that it? I don't want to feel guilty so I
don't want to hear it? I can't imagine any other meaning
of "putting one's ideals" on someone else.

I also can't imagine someone using the phrase "putting your ideals
on me" if those ideals *didn't* resonate with them.
I guess it's much more comfortable to turn away, cover your ears,
(or censor the posts so nobody has to take an uncomfortable closer
look at what they're saying).

Patti





>
> Word play is central to our unschooling.
>
> Meanness seems to be central to other peoples' Look at this
electronic sack
> of flaming virtual dogshit I got a week and some back:
>
> -=-You're a total dork! I can only imagine how unpleasant looking
you are. I
> hear that you are mean to extremely nice people because you are a
pig! It
> must be horrible to be you. There is no way that you are even
close to thin. I
> would bet everything that I know that you are homely and nasty
looking. Good
> luck you gross pathetic piece of of poor genes.
> -=-
>
> "SKAJacobson@m..." is where it came from. Anyone know who that
is? If
> it's the husband or son of anyone here, please consider NOT
obsessing about
> homeschooling insecurities at home in front of your unstable
relatives. Thanks.
>
> I'm guessing it's someone from a family where weight is made a big
issue.
> Wasn't there someone here (or at the forum?) going on (and off)
about an
> overweight child with behavior issues?
>
> Well, whoever it was, it hurt him (or her) more than it did me.
> And his mom, or whoever told him someone had been mean to her
didn't do me
> any harm, but did the peace of her family some big damage.
>
> Kind of, someone tried to use the bathroom in his pants on my
porch, but
> since it was only e-mail, all the real shit stayed at his house!
>
> Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/5/2004 2:31:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> Look at this electronic sack
> of flaming virtual dogshit I got a week and some back:
>

I am completely baffled as to WHY people who differ in opinions must make it
personal?! There are many people with whom I don't agree on some things,
sometimes lots of things (some of them good friends!), but I still don't see the
need to hate or even dislike them-much less disparage or attack them. Sheesh-its
that same old "if everyone were exactly the same..." thing. I have some
pretty good friends that have ideas radically different from my ideas, they are
still good people and I can learn things from them and have fun with them... I
just don't get it...

Peace,
Sang


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/5/04 5:16:56 PM, patti.schmidt2@... writes:

<< I also can't imagine someone using the phrase "putting your ideals

on me" if those ideals *didn't* resonate with them.

I guess it's much more comfortable to turn away, cover your ears,

(or censor the posts so nobody has to take an uncomfortable closer

look at what they're saying). >>

I think it happens when people are not really very analytical and have come
around for social-life. They want others to say "Ooooh, you're an unschooler
just like WE are. Welcome, welcome, how's your dog? What kind of flowers are
in your yard?"

They don't want to change. They might not even want to unschool. They are
needy of affirmation and they're not wanting to figure out what their audience
really wants. So (maybe, in Howard Gardner's kind of terms) having a lack of
interest in or inability to really look at themselves or others, they get
angry if others can and are looking deeply and carefully and clearly at
themselves and others.

There are people out there (women, mostly) who will tell other people
whatever nice, positive thing they want to hear. That can only really be done if
the speaker honestly, truly, doesn't know or care about the person in any way
whatsoever, or if they're just in the habit of not looking but just "being
pleasant" and agreeing with anyone anytime. Once you're out of the room, good
luck. But while you're there, you're a friend, and they'll groom and stroke.

Maybe it's a mothering instinct gone on beyond. In some cases it's
cowardice. In other cases, though, it's that element of deep lack of self esteem and
conviction that is the central theme of The Emperor's New Clothes. Will you be
honest even if others might be offended? Will you believe that others see
something, and agree that you see it, just to go along with the group? Do you
doubt your own convictons and perceptions so much that you'll say "Ooooh, yeah,
that's nice. You're right! I hadn't thought of that. You're so smart."

But all those mental health issues aside, this list exists so that
unschoolers and those interested in unschooling can discuss how and why it works and
what can keep it from working as well as it could. It's not a group therapy
session (though some figure out how to take comfort and growth-clues and to
process some of their childhood stuff) and it's not a ladies' teaparty where we say
"nice hat! lovely weather" out front and "did you see that stupid hat?" later.



If someone writes here that she's been thinking, and she's sorry she ever
spanked kids, those who are NOT wanting to be sorry they spanked their kids, or
still do, might think she's putting her ideals on them. I could make a dozen
other examples. But the only way to avoid that is for us all to give up ideals
and just put all our kids in school, discipline the way our moms or neighbors
do/did, give them allowance on par with neighbor kids (and withhold it
whenever the hell we want to because they're our kids and it's our money), have a
bedtime like the neighbors, and then all the neighbors will be happier and we
won't have to think.

That was tried already. It was the 1950's and early 60's. There was a
yuppie resurgence in the 1980's. There seem to have been some problems with the
outcomes.

Sandra