Alison Broadbent

This conversation just came up w/ our 4 yo ds a couple of days ago. It was
very hard for me. Ds asked if everything died. I said yes that everything
did die in it's own time. He looked panicked and said no!. I asked him what
he thought and he said we live forever. I said Oh. Then he asked again,
is that right? At that point seeing him wanting the info but not wanting to
hear it was very difficult. I said that usually people didn't die unless
they were really old and very very sick. He asked if kids died and again I
said that usually that didn't happen. He said that that happened only if
electricity happened. He asked dh if i would die and dh said that I was
healthy and and young (not that young-older than most all the other moms but
who's counting). He said that we stay new bc we put on sunscreen. I'm not
sure where that came from.. Later he came out to me and said he was sad bc
he didn't want to die. I said that he didn't have to worry about that bc
that rarely happened unless there was an accident or the child was very very
very sick.

I felt at a loss. I remember reading that Bruno Bettelheim (child
psychologist) saying that young kids need some cosmology to help them make
sense of a chaotic world. I didn't have any cosmology to offer. I did say
we were all energy before we were born and after but that didn't hold much
promise for him and dropped it.

Hey death sucks. What can I do but go through this with him. The hard part
was asking him what he thoguth and then him asking again was that true and
seeing his pain. In the end he seemed to be calmed by hearing how rare it
was. I gave us both ignacia (homeopathic for grief)and we went to bed. He
hasn't brought ti up again. I'd love to hear what others have said who
didn't have a religious perspective to offer..

Alison

Fetteroll

on 5/4/04 8:00 AM, Alison Broadbent at abzb@... wrote:

> I'd love to hear what others have said who
> didn't have a religious perspective to offer..

You can say "Some people believe ..." and give a variety of spiritual
answers, including atheistic beliefs. He doesn't need to know "The Truth" as
you believe it. None of us knows! But giving him a variety of ideas will
allow him to try them on and see how they fit.

He may need to believe different things at different ages. Just as kids need
to believe parents are perfect at some ages ;-) But they move onto other
beliefs that explain more in better ways for their understanding of the
world.

Joyce

the_clevengers

--- In [email protected], Alison Broadbent
<abzb@e...> wrote:
> Hey death sucks. What can I do but go through this with him. The
hard part
> was asking him what he thoguth and then him asking again was that
true and
> seeing his pain. In the end he seemed to be calmed by hearing how
rare it
> was. I gave us both ignacia (homeopathic for grief)and we went to
bed. He
> hasn't brought ti up again. I'd love to hear what others have said
who
> didn't have a religious perspective to offer..


One book that both my kids have liked is called "The Fall of Freddie
the Leaf". It looks at the lifecycle/death through a leaf's
perspective on a tree all year, then falling off and dying. It's the
kind of book that you can come back to at different ages/stages and
get something new or different out of it each time. We've also talked
about the different religious perspectives as well - that some folks
believe in heaven, and some believe that we come back as other
people, etc. My son has pre-birth memories of watching DH and I, so
he feels very confident that he's been around before birth and is
more than a physical body (he has also talked to the spirit of the
woman who died in our basement before we bought this house - he is
way beyond me in matters of spirit). My daughter has more fear/grief
about death (we lost my grandma last year) but my son never seems to
worry about it. I think he knows something intuitively that the rest
of us just wonder about. In any case, both kids liked that book and
it addresses death from a non-religious angle. We also checked out
one done by Maria Shriver that gives the more common heaven/angels
approach.

Blue Skies,
-Robin-

Shannon Rizzo

When we had this discussion, I said "some people believe that our souls live
on after our body dies" and we talked about reincarnation and various
beliefs people have.

Also, children of different ages have different needs wrt how specific your
answer needs to be. When they asked, my then-4 yr old was mainly interested
in whether she'd still have a mom if I died, my then-6 yr old was interested
in whether we'd all be together after we all died.

They didn't want a detailed accounting and I didn't want to give them more
than they asked for. They've come back to me occasionally with more
questions and I just answer them; they questions have changed as they've
become older.

I was terrified of death when I was about 6. I used to ask my parents to
put a flashlight and a book in my casket, and prayed each night to be turned
into a rock upon death, so I wouldn't be stuck in the ground. I'd rather
give my kids just the information they ask for and can handle at their ages,
rather than enable a fear at such a young age. And if I am going to
facilitate them making their own religious choices, then I see nothing wrong
with saying "some people believe xxx" - it's just one more subject to
explore.

Shannon R
(mom to Heather, Isabella, Luke, Jake)

Christina Morrissey

Hey Alison,

Interesting topic. What is it about the 4's?

Both my kids (1 girl, 1 boy) were almost "obsessed" with the topic of death
at that age. We are not Christian. I did the rational-explanation,
answer-questions-calmly stuff. It didn't really seem to help much. Then I
asked the first child what really bothered him most about the idea of death
or dying. I was told that he didn't want me to leave him. Never mind that
everything dies when they are old, or that more than likely he will be much
older and an adult when it happens to you. My son just needed to hear that
I wasn't planning on going anywhere for "a very, very, lonnnnngggg
time!" And yes, when I went to sleep, I would wake up then next morning
and so would he.

Funnily enough, my second child, my daughter, asked almost the very same
questions at about the same age. As both my kids have mood disorders, I
always thought that their death obsessions were symptoms of this, but
perhaps not. So maybe work on the reassurance part? And see if that
helps? Maybe it's really not helpful knowing that everything around you
dies eventually or that it's rare that it happens to kids. He just doesn't
want you to die right now, and leave him alone, and to tell him so (?).

Hope it helps...Christina in Seattle


><<This conversation just came up w/ our 4 yo ds a couple of days ago. It was
>very hard for me. Ds asked if everything died. I said yes that everything
>did die in it's own time. He looked panicked and said no!.
>
> I'd love to hear what others have said who didn't have a religious
> perspective to offer..>>
>
>Alison
>
>
>
>
>"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
>Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[email protected]

We aren't religious. I told my kids "Christians say this... " and talk about
how comforting the idea of heaven is, where people's souls will be reunited.
And most people have the concept of communicating with or honoring their
dead relatives.

Japanese altars (and other Asians of that area, though I don't have as much
direct knowledge) are good examples.

Alison Broadbent

> You can say "Some people believe ..." and give a variety of spiritual
> answers, including atheistic beliefs.

You know it's so funny how you can do something in other situations but the
same answer can allude you in a new one. Like this. It's as though I never
would have thought of this although I've said this many times before. So
thanks for those of you who reminded me.

I think this topic threw me for a loop. This was one I thought about a lot
when I was growing up. I used to go through painful imaginings of my mother
dying to the point of me making myself cry. Then later I used to think
about what would happen if my best friend died. How would I live. Then I
didn't think I would live past a young age, like my 20's. There was
something romantic about that. I thought I might die of consumption. Now i
wonder if I was just depressed. Maybe this is just the human condition and
we have to figure out how to make our way through the chaos of it all and
using our imaginations is about the best we've got.

> He doesn't need to know "The Truth" as
>> you believe it. None of us knows! But giving him a variety of ideas will
>> allow him to try them on and see how they fit.

I've got no "Truth" as I believe it. As you say, nobody knows. I remember
once my meditation teacher was asked about reincarnation. He said he didn't
know and didn't know anyone who had died and come back to tell the tale. He
suggested that if you met a person who was sure of reincarnation, you ask
them for a loan and tell them you'd pay them back in your next life. Of
course that doesn't really fit if you do believe in reincarnation but it was
kind of funny, I thought.

The subject hasn't come up again w/ my ds but in the mean time, I'll get
that book about Freddie. Thanks for the suggestion.

Alison

Dawn Adams

This may be a little too much for some but one thing that really helped Catherine's understanding (added another big peice to the puzzle) was watching a dead ground squirrel we found decompose. When a kitten died after that last year she new that there was no coming back and that death was a solid fact. She even discussed what might happen to the kitten and was comforted by the fact that the kitten would be providing life for so many bugs and such. Until then I was getting caught up in explanations and such but having a concrete experience like the squirrel gave Catherine a reference she could really understand. Not for everyone maybe but it helped us.

Dawn (in NS)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Danielle Conger

One other thing we did that was really helpful was to use our Cuisinaire
rods to compare ages. My great-grandfather was 96 when he died, so we used
the rods to lay out 96, which went all the way across the room. Then we laid
Emily's age (4 at the time) next to it. Then dh's and my age next to that.
It gave her a really clear visual representation of age, how long it would
take to get old enough to die from old age. We talked about how some people
get sick or hurt and die young but that our bodies are designed to live for
many years before shutting down, etc. We talked about the ways we take care
of our bodies and stay safe to try to live a long life. All of this was a
way to help her understand death and reassure her that we were not likely to
die for a very long time. I think it helped a lot.

--Danielle

http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

Ren

"She even
discussed what might happen to the kitten and was comforted by the fact that the
kitten would be providing life for so many bugs and such."

We have buried a Beta and a Hamster under an azalea bush in our yard. I explained that they would become part of the earth again, and in doing so it would feed the shrub. In that way, they would be part of the azalea forever....it seemed to be comforting for my children to know that there was a part of the animal that lived on, by becoming part of nature again. The cycle of life.

Ren


"There is no way to
peace. Peace is the way."
~Quaker saying

kayb85

That really helped Luke (then about 3 I think) too. In our case, it
was a dead deer on the side of the road, not a dead squirrel. He
looked at it, realized what "dead" was, and also realized that he got
killed because he got hit by a car. He ALWAYS remembered to look
before going onto the road after that.

It probably wouldn't help younger kids, but for older kids I really
recommend the movie Tuck Everlasting for a neat perspective on the
death issue.

Sheila


> This may be a little too much for some but one thing that really
helped Catherine's understanding (added another big peice to the
puzzle) was watching a dead ground squirrel we found decompose.