Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] What if?
J. Stauffer
<<<What if he never shows a spark for Christophr Columbus, fe?>>>
Then he simply hasn't come upon a situation where he needed to know about
Christopher Columbus.
But chances are that he will know at least as much as your average high
school student just because of the holiday and the parade and the cultural
issues surrounding CC. It comes up every fall in conversations, in the
newspaper, etc..
There are lots of things that lots of people know that I don't. The entire
concept of physics and math was a black hole to me until I was grown and had
kids. And I have a Master's degree with a BS. But I just didn't get it.
Then I watched a Bill Nye video with the kids and it has been clear ever
since.
And then there are lots of things I know that lots of other people
don't.....like you can use lemon juice and milk to make farmer's cheese, how
to knit a hat without ever having to purl, how to say the ABC's backwards...
Even kids who have gone to school together with the same teachers will not
know the same things when they graduate.
Julie S.
Julie S.
Then he simply hasn't come upon a situation where he needed to know about
Christopher Columbus.
But chances are that he will know at least as much as your average high
school student just because of the holiday and the parade and the cultural
issues surrounding CC. It comes up every fall in conversations, in the
newspaper, etc..
There are lots of things that lots of people know that I don't. The entire
concept of physics and math was a black hole to me until I was grown and had
kids. And I have a Master's degree with a BS. But I just didn't get it.
Then I watched a Bill Nye video with the kids and it has been clear ever
since.
And then there are lots of things I know that lots of other people
don't.....like you can use lemon juice and milk to make farmer's cheese, how
to knit a hat without ever having to purl, how to say the ABC's backwards...
Even kids who have gone to school together with the same teachers will not
know the same things when they graduate.
Julie S.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barbara Hartmann" <martinezphotography@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 12:41 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] What if?
> I am beginning to realize as I converse about this topic and process that
> when I say I am afraid ds won't have enough "sparks" what I am really
saying
> is I am afraid he won't learn the things he "needs" to. What if he never
> shows an interest in certain topics?
>
> I'm not really talking about reading (he already knows how to), but rather
> just the variety of different topics and concepts that kids learn in
school.
> What if he never shows a spark for Christophr Columbus, fe?
>
> Barb
>
>
>
>
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Barbara Hartmann
I am beginning to realize as I converse about this topic and process that
when I say I am afraid ds won't have enough "sparks" what I am really saying
is I am afraid he won't learn the things he "needs" to. What if he never
shows an interest in certain topics?
I'm not really talking about reading (he already knows how to), but rather
just the variety of different topics and concepts that kids learn in school.
What if he never shows a spark for Christophr Columbus, fe?
Barb
when I say I am afraid ds won't have enough "sparks" what I am really saying
is I am afraid he won't learn the things he "needs" to. What if he never
shows an interest in certain topics?
I'm not really talking about reading (he already knows how to), but rather
just the variety of different topics and concepts that kids learn in school.
What if he never shows a spark for Christophr Columbus, fe?
Barb
Robyn Coburn
<<I am beginning to realize as I converse about this topic and process that
when I say I am afraid ds won't have enough "sparks" what I am really saying
is I am afraid he won't learn the things he "needs" to. What if he never
shows an interest in certain topics?
I'm not really talking about reading (he already knows how to), but rather
just the variety of different topics and concepts that kids learn in school.
What if he never shows a spark for Christophr Columbus, fe?>>
I'm an immigrant from Australia. I have managed to do many jobs, have
friends, find love, and have interesting conversations as an adult who
doesn't know tons of the things that the school system here considers core
curriculum - I would probably be a Jaywalking Allstar, if you have watched
Leno at all. I can't name all the States probably, let alone the capitals,
or list all the Presidents. At home I was the equivalent of valedictorian.
They made a movie about Columbus didn't they? Did it include the horrors he
and his crews perpetrated in Haiti? School level information is often not
remotely complete. Philosophical issue: is any amount of information the
whole story on any subject, or is there always more to learn?
What *if* a kid never sparks Columbus or [insert topic here]? How would his
life therefore be impossible - now or later? Is there some age limit in your
mind about when he needs to have these sparks by to count? Some people find
completely new interests as adults. What could happen to him? One thing is
that other people may try to quiz him with offensive questions, as people
sometimes do when they find out someone is homeschooled. They do that to all
homeschoolers. These interrogators are rude if adults, and have been
brainwashed if school children. Jayn mostly refuses to answer, regardless of
whether she knows the answer, preferring to initiate real conversations
about her current interests. DH and I usually say, "She won't be a
performing monkey" to stop them.
If you have a great and abiding interest in eg: Columbus, and have the
information around the house - maybe even the movie I mentioned or some
books with great illustrations or some ship models or a TV series comes on
or...this is strewing I guess. He may spark something from your passion
about your subject - or not. OTOH, if you are forcing yourself to read about
eg: Columbus and going rigid with boredom, or getting a tension headache
every time you think about the reading you "must" do to make sure he sees it
is important to learn about eg:Columbus, I think you are likely to smother
any spark that occurs.
I guess it is something to ponder: whether there really is any particular
piece of school type knowledge that is essential to a happy life for a child
in the market economy democracy called the USA. (I'm not talking about
skills - you say he knows how to read so he is already doing very well
indeed. If a skill is entirely used in a school setting, then it is beyond
irrelevant to our family. If it is useful in real life then it will be
learned at the time.) I'm leaning to the "None" myself.
Robyn L. Coburn
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when I say I am afraid ds won't have enough "sparks" what I am really saying
is I am afraid he won't learn the things he "needs" to. What if he never
shows an interest in certain topics?
I'm not really talking about reading (he already knows how to), but rather
just the variety of different topics and concepts that kids learn in school.
What if he never shows a spark for Christophr Columbus, fe?>>
I'm an immigrant from Australia. I have managed to do many jobs, have
friends, find love, and have interesting conversations as an adult who
doesn't know tons of the things that the school system here considers core
curriculum - I would probably be a Jaywalking Allstar, if you have watched
Leno at all. I can't name all the States probably, let alone the capitals,
or list all the Presidents. At home I was the equivalent of valedictorian.
They made a movie about Columbus didn't they? Did it include the horrors he
and his crews perpetrated in Haiti? School level information is often not
remotely complete. Philosophical issue: is any amount of information the
whole story on any subject, or is there always more to learn?
What *if* a kid never sparks Columbus or [insert topic here]? How would his
life therefore be impossible - now or later? Is there some age limit in your
mind about when he needs to have these sparks by to count? Some people find
completely new interests as adults. What could happen to him? One thing is
that other people may try to quiz him with offensive questions, as people
sometimes do when they find out someone is homeschooled. They do that to all
homeschoolers. These interrogators are rude if adults, and have been
brainwashed if school children. Jayn mostly refuses to answer, regardless of
whether she knows the answer, preferring to initiate real conversations
about her current interests. DH and I usually say, "She won't be a
performing monkey" to stop them.
If you have a great and abiding interest in eg: Columbus, and have the
information around the house - maybe even the movie I mentioned or some
books with great illustrations or some ship models or a TV series comes on
or...this is strewing I guess. He may spark something from your passion
about your subject - or not. OTOH, if you are forcing yourself to read about
eg: Columbus and going rigid with boredom, or getting a tension headache
every time you think about the reading you "must" do to make sure he sees it
is important to learn about eg:Columbus, I think you are likely to smother
any spark that occurs.
I guess it is something to ponder: whether there really is any particular
piece of school type knowledge that is essential to a happy life for a child
in the market economy democracy called the USA. (I'm not talking about
skills - you say he knows how to read so he is already doing very well
indeed. If a skill is entirely used in a school setting, then it is beyond
irrelevant to our family. If it is useful in real life then it will be
learned at the time.) I'm leaning to the "None" myself.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 4/9/2004
Cally Brown
'What if?' - what if we stopped worrying about 'what ifs', and
concentrate on 'what is'? Will the world end if your kids never show a
spark for Columbus, or my kids never show a spark for Captain Cook? (We
live in new Zealand.) Value the learning they are doing, instead of
worrying about what they aren't learning - they will never learn it all
- and how boring would life be for a true know-it-all?
What I will tell you is that in a city close to where I live there is a
city counsellor who is functionally illiterate. This year he is running
for mayor, and has as good a chance as anyone of making it.
If it's needed, your kids will learn it when they need it, or they will,
like the man mentioned above, find other ways of doing things.
Cally
Barbara Hartmann wrote:
concentrate on 'what is'? Will the world end if your kids never show a
spark for Columbus, or my kids never show a spark for Captain Cook? (We
live in new Zealand.) Value the learning they are doing, instead of
worrying about what they aren't learning - they will never learn it all
- and how boring would life be for a true know-it-all?
What I will tell you is that in a city close to where I live there is a
city counsellor who is functionally illiterate. This year he is running
for mayor, and has as good a chance as anyone of making it.
If it's needed, your kids will learn it when they need it, or they will,
like the man mentioned above, find other ways of doing things.
Cally
Barbara Hartmann wrote:
>I am beginning to realize as I converse about this topic and process that
>when I say I am afraid ds won't have enough "sparks" what I am really saying
>is I am afraid he won't learn the things he "needs" to. What if he never
>shows an interest in certain topics?
>
>I'm not really talking about reading (he already knows how to), but rather
>just the variety of different topics and concepts that kids learn in school.
>What if he never shows a spark for Christophr Columbus, fe?
>
>Barb
>
>
>
>
>
>"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
>Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Ren Allen
"but rather
just the variety of different topics and concepts that kids learn in
school."
Variety? I see school topics and concepts as extremely limited. When
you've got the whole wide world to learn from, how can school
possibly even come close to competing?
Topics my children would never have come in contact with from school:
Yu-gi-oh, Pokemon, Mage Knight, Japanese Anime, rollerblading,
guitar (playing what he chooses, not what a band would force him
to), foreign money (actual real money, not just talk about it),
Medieval re-enactment, photography (at any age, not just HS),
woodworking (again at younger ages, not HS), starting their own
business ( a real one, not just faking it), massage therapy, herbal
medicine, homeopathics, dragon lore and art, travel, fort
construction, ....
I could go on and on...this is a small sampling and doesn't even
begin to convey the richness of learning that takes place in a wide
world of freedom. School is all about a very restricted set of
information, and very academically focused.
The other great thing, is your child will hear about Christopher
Columbus just from living in this country, and living in your
family. Unschooling isn't about waiting for a child to say "show me
this" and then teaching them something. It's living. And in living,
your child is probably going to come in contact with information
about Christopher Columbus.
And even better, they won't have some cockamamie idea that
Christopher Columbus "discovered" America.
Maybe your child will show an interest in Native American basketry,
and bump into something about Columbus that way. Or maybe he'll get
fascinated with ships and bump into Columbus through a passion about
all things ship related. It isn't important that a person learns
specific bits of knowledge, it IS hugely important for them to
follow their interests and passions.
And if they do that with an aware, mindful adult available, that
adult will point to interesting stops along the way that they may
not know about.
Cultural literacy happens by learning about that which interests you
and being out in the world living a happy life, interacting with
many different types of people.
That is unschooling.
Ren
just the variety of different topics and concepts that kids learn in
school."
Variety? I see school topics and concepts as extremely limited. When
you've got the whole wide world to learn from, how can school
possibly even come close to competing?
Topics my children would never have come in contact with from school:
Yu-gi-oh, Pokemon, Mage Knight, Japanese Anime, rollerblading,
guitar (playing what he chooses, not what a band would force him
to), foreign money (actual real money, not just talk about it),
Medieval re-enactment, photography (at any age, not just HS),
woodworking (again at younger ages, not HS), starting their own
business ( a real one, not just faking it), massage therapy, herbal
medicine, homeopathics, dragon lore and art, travel, fort
construction, ....
I could go on and on...this is a small sampling and doesn't even
begin to convey the richness of learning that takes place in a wide
world of freedom. School is all about a very restricted set of
information, and very academically focused.
The other great thing, is your child will hear about Christopher
Columbus just from living in this country, and living in your
family. Unschooling isn't about waiting for a child to say "show me
this" and then teaching them something. It's living. And in living,
your child is probably going to come in contact with information
about Christopher Columbus.
And even better, they won't have some cockamamie idea that
Christopher Columbus "discovered" America.
Maybe your child will show an interest in Native American basketry,
and bump into something about Columbus that way. Or maybe he'll get
fascinated with ships and bump into Columbus through a passion about
all things ship related. It isn't important that a person learns
specific bits of knowledge, it IS hugely important for them to
follow their interests and passions.
And if they do that with an aware, mindful adult available, that
adult will point to interesting stops along the way that they may
not know about.
Cultural literacy happens by learning about that which interests you
and being out in the world living a happy life, interacting with
many different types of people.
That is unschooling.
Ren
Mary
From: "Barbara Hartmann" <martinezphotography@...>
snipped << What if he never shows an interest in certain topics?
I'm not really talking about reading (he already knows how to), but rather
just the variety of different topics and concepts that kids learn in
school.
What if he never shows a spark for Christophr Columbus, fe?>>
If he spends the rest of his life never hearing the name Christopher
Columbus, would that really be so bad for him? If the name comes up somehow,
he will probably ask. You explain and that might lead into more and it might
not. If not, is *that* really so bad?
There are going to be lots of topics that are never viewed as interesting.
One can't know everything there is to know about everything. Some people
know a little about a lot and some a lot about a little. Doesn't really make
one person smarter than the other. He will inquire as to what interests him.
It might be trains for the rest of his life, but along with learning about
trains, he will also be picking up bits and pieces of much more.
School is very limiting. Your life with you son won't be. Much better than
school. Can't even compare.
Mary B
snipped << What if he never shows an interest in certain topics?
I'm not really talking about reading (he already knows how to), but rather
just the variety of different topics and concepts that kids learn in
school.
What if he never shows a spark for Christophr Columbus, fe?>>
If he spends the rest of his life never hearing the name Christopher
Columbus, would that really be so bad for him? If the name comes up somehow,
he will probably ask. You explain and that might lead into more and it might
not. If not, is *that* really so bad?
There are going to be lots of topics that are never viewed as interesting.
One can't know everything there is to know about everything. Some people
know a little about a lot and some a lot about a little. Doesn't really make
one person smarter than the other. He will inquire as to what interests him.
It might be trains for the rest of his life, but along with learning about
trains, he will also be picking up bits and pieces of much more.
School is very limiting. Your life with you son won't be. Much better than
school. Can't even compare.
Mary B
Elizabeth Hill
**
What if he never shows a spark for Christopher Columbus**
I was nearly 40 before I realized that "pre-Columbian" art had anything to do with Columbus. And although this may be slow and dorky of me, I bet I'm not the only one.
There are probably even people that don't connect "District of Columbia" with Columbus. It's not like you have to pay a fine for not knowing.
Betsy
What if he never shows a spark for Christopher Columbus**
I was nearly 40 before I realized that "pre-Columbian" art had anything to do with Columbus. And although this may be slow and dorky of me, I bet I'm not the only one.
There are probably even people that don't connect "District of Columbia" with Columbus. It's not like you have to pay a fine for not knowing.
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/21/04 10:09:59 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:
<< I was nearly 40 before I realized that "pre-Columbian" art had anything to
do with Columbus. And although this may be slow and dorky of me, I bet I'm
not the only one. >>
I was probably in my 30's and had been interested in word origins since I was
nine. That one lay dormant though, and jumped out at me one day. <g>
There are references in song to "Columbia" and a couple of the songs are so
good I wish sometimes the country had been called "Columbia," but it wasn't and
now it's too late.
Perhaps Columbus was a shit, in retrospect, but the guy "America" is named
after hardly even shows in the rearview mirror (or as Marty is having difficulty
not calling it, "REVIEW" mirror).
Sandra
<< I was nearly 40 before I realized that "pre-Columbian" art had anything to
do with Columbus. And although this may be slow and dorky of me, I bet I'm
not the only one. >>
I was probably in my 30's and had been interested in word origins since I was
nine. That one lay dormant though, and jumped out at me one day. <g>
There are references in song to "Columbia" and a couple of the songs are so
good I wish sometimes the country had been called "Columbia," but it wasn't and
now it's too late.
Perhaps Columbus was a shit, in retrospect, but the guy "America" is named
after hardly even shows in the rearview mirror (or as Marty is having difficulty
not calling it, "REVIEW" mirror).
Sandra
Robyn Coburn
<<I was nearly 40 before I realized that "pre-Columbian" art had anything to
do with Columbus. And although this may be slow and dorky of me, I bet I'm
not the only one.>>
It does? Well I'm 42 so I guess I beat you. Thanks for clearing up that
mystery of nomenclature for me!
Robyn L. Coburn
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do with Columbus. And although this may be slow and dorky of me, I bet I'm
not the only one.>>
It does? Well I'm 42 so I guess I beat you. Thanks for clearing up that
mystery of nomenclature for me!
Robyn L. Coburn
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Mary
Gotcha beat! I'm almost 46 and didn't know that either.
Mary B
Mary B
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robyn Coburn" <dezigna@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1:16 PM
Subject: RE: [UnschoolingDiscussion] What if?
> <<I was nearly 40 before I realized that "pre-Columbian" art had anything
to
> do with Columbus. And although this may be slow and dorky of me, I bet
I'm
> not the only one.>>
>
> It does? Well I'm 42 so I guess I beat you. Thanks for clearing up that
> mystery of nomenclature for me!
>
> Robyn L. Coburn
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 4/9/2004
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Elizabeth Hill
**
Gotcha beat! I'm almost 46 and didn't know that either.**
It doesn't make a huge amount of sense that this explorer guy's name is applied to art produced by peoples half a world away. I think that's why it's possible to go for a long time without making a click. Because in reality it's nonsensical. <g>
Betsy
Gotcha beat! I'm almost 46 and didn't know that either.**
It doesn't make a huge amount of sense that this explorer guy's name is applied to art produced by peoples half a world away. I think that's why it's possible to go for a long time without making a click. Because in reality it's nonsensical. <g>
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/21/2004 12:10:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:
Síocháin ar domhan,
Sang
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ecsamhill@... writes:
> I was nearly 40 before I realized that "pre-Columbian" art had anything toNope, you're not! You just taught me! :~D
> do with Columbus. And although this may be slow and dorky of me, I bet I'm
> not the only one.
>
Síocháin ar domhan,
Sang
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]