rewards/punishments/bribes was transcripts
catherine aceto
QUOTE:
-=-I don't see this as any different than talking about how in theory rewards and punishments are bad for kids, but in practice paying Billy $5 to sit through a concert that you really want to attend and he would just as soon miss.
ME: I think punishments are wrong (morally) and also counterproductive. I think rewards are counterproductive if you are (a) trying to influence future behavior by the reward and (b) want the future behavior to be intrinsically rewarding. I don't see how your example fits either criterion. If you wanted Billy to go to the concert for Billy's sake, then I think the reward would be counterproductive.
In real life, though, I'd try my best to just find Billy another place to be, rather than be in the position of being the one causing him to do something that he didn't like for money.
I found this part of the discussion to be an interesting tangent. Too bad it isn't a real example, since made-up examples seem less worthwhile of discussion to me. I am now curious about how people feel about/treat rewards/incentive in similar situations.
-Cat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-I don't see this as any different than talking about how in theory rewards and punishments are bad for kids, but in practice paying Billy $5 to sit through a concert that you really want to attend and he would just as soon miss.
ME: I think punishments are wrong (morally) and also counterproductive. I think rewards are counterproductive if you are (a) trying to influence future behavior by the reward and (b) want the future behavior to be intrinsically rewarding. I don't see how your example fits either criterion. If you wanted Billy to go to the concert for Billy's sake, then I think the reward would be counterproductive.
In real life, though, I'd try my best to just find Billy another place to be, rather than be in the position of being the one causing him to do something that he didn't like for money.
I found this part of the discussion to be an interesting tangent. Too bad it isn't a real example, since made-up examples seem less worthwhile of discussion to me. I am now curious about how people feel about/treat rewards/incentive in similar situations.
-Cat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/14/04 4:25:33 PM, aceto3@... writes:
<< I found this part of the discussion to be an interesting tangent. Too
bad it isn't a real example, since made-up examples seem less worthwhile of
discussion to me. I am now curious about how people feel about/treat
rewards/incentive in similar situations. >>
I've bribed kids.
But the simplest bribe of all probably goes back to cave man days. "I'll get
you food!"
Then it might've been "We can stop by the ravine where the berries are" and
now it's "I'll take you to Burger King on the way back."
Kids have bribed me.
Perhaps bribe is too strong a word.
If we go to visit Keith's parents next month, we're going to White Sands and
Carlsbad Caverns too. It's to sweeten the idea of driving to southern New
Mexico when it's hot. Just to see grandma makes it a long, harsh trip. Grandma,
a hotel with a water slide, Carlsbad Caverns...
That's better.
But we're not trying to train them to go to grandmas. They would go without
the sweetener, but it will be sweeter for all concerned WITH the frosting.
(And what that has to do with transcripts, I will suggest, is nothing
whatsoever.)
Sandra
<< I found this part of the discussion to be an interesting tangent. Too
bad it isn't a real example, since made-up examples seem less worthwhile of
discussion to me. I am now curious about how people feel about/treat
rewards/incentive in similar situations. >>
I've bribed kids.
But the simplest bribe of all probably goes back to cave man days. "I'll get
you food!"
Then it might've been "We can stop by the ravine where the berries are" and
now it's "I'll take you to Burger King on the way back."
Kids have bribed me.
Perhaps bribe is too strong a word.
If we go to visit Keith's parents next month, we're going to White Sands and
Carlsbad Caverns too. It's to sweeten the idea of driving to southern New
Mexico when it's hot. Just to see grandma makes it a long, harsh trip. Grandma,
a hotel with a water slide, Carlsbad Caverns...
That's better.
But we're not trying to train them to go to grandmas. They would go without
the sweetener, but it will be sweeter for all concerned WITH the frosting.
(And what that has to do with transcripts, I will suggest, is nothing
whatsoever.)
Sandra
J. Stauffer
<<< I found this part of the discussion to be an interesting tangent. Too
bad it isn't a real example, since made-up examples seem less worthwhile of
discussion to me>>>>
Actually it was a real example used on this lis many times in the past.
Sorry, I should have said that.
Julie S.
.----- Original Message -----
From: "catherine aceto" <aceto3@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 5:19 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] rewards/punishments/bribes was transcripts
sit through a concert that you really want to attend and he would just as
soon miss.
future behavior by the reward and (b) want the future behavior to be
intrinsically rewarding. I don't see how your example fits either
criterion. If you wanted Billy to go to the concert for Billy's sake, then
I think the reward would be counterproductive.
something that he didn't like for money.
discussion to me. I am now curious about how people feel about/treat
rewards/incentive in similar situations.
bad it isn't a real example, since made-up examples seem less worthwhile of
discussion to me>>>>
Actually it was a real example used on this lis many times in the past.
Sorry, I should have said that.
Julie S.
.----- Original Message -----
From: "catherine aceto" <aceto3@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 5:19 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] rewards/punishments/bribes was transcripts
> QUOTE:rewards and punishments are bad for kids, but in practice paying Billy $5 to
> -=-I don't see this as any different than talking about how in theory
sit through a concert that you really want to attend and he would just as
soon miss.
>I think rewards are counterproductive if you are (a) trying to influence
>
> ME: I think punishments are wrong (morally) and also counterproductive.
future behavior by the reward and (b) want the future behavior to be
intrinsically rewarding. I don't see how your example fits either
criterion. If you wanted Billy to go to the concert for Billy's sake, then
I think the reward would be counterproductive.
>be, rather than be in the position of being the one causing him to do
> In real life, though, I'd try my best to just find Billy another place to
something that he didn't like for money.
>bad it isn't a real example, since made-up examples seem less worthwhile of
> I found this part of the discussion to be an interesting tangent. Too
discussion to me. I am now curious about how people feel about/treat
rewards/incentive in similar situations.
>http://www.unschooling.com
> -Cat
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
queenjane555
--- In [email protected], "catherine aceto"
<aceto3@v...> wrote:
worthwhile of discussion to me. I am now curious about how people
feel about/treat rewards/incentive in similar situations.
GIANT centipede on the wall. We'd been running around the room
screaming "you kill it!" "No, YOU kill it!" "I'm not killing it YOU
kill it"...I am extremely phobic of anything will lots of legs (have
just about mastered my fear of most spiders, but this centipede was
huuuuuge, and dark, and had really loooong legs!)and was practically
hyperventilating in the kitchen. My poor mother was stuck in her
wheelchair in the hallway at 1am cuz the creature was in her room and
i couldnt put her to bed with it in there...
In the end, Seamus ended up throwing a shoe at it, which of course
only startled it and had no fatal effect...he lost out on his $20
bribe and we had to spend the next two days there with the horrible
knowledge that a monster still lurks in the shadows of my mother's
house...
i shudder just remembering it.....
So yeah, i will bribe in certain circumstances, but not for stuff
like "chores" and other stuff.
katherine
<aceto3@v...> wrote:
> I found this part of the discussion to be an interesting tangent.Too bad it isn't a real example, since made-up examples seem less
worthwhile of discussion to me. I am now curious about how people
feel about/treat rewards/incentive in similar situations.
>Last week i offered Seamus $20 in cold hard cash if he would kill the
> -Cat
>
GIANT centipede on the wall. We'd been running around the room
screaming "you kill it!" "No, YOU kill it!" "I'm not killing it YOU
kill it"...I am extremely phobic of anything will lots of legs (have
just about mastered my fear of most spiders, but this centipede was
huuuuuge, and dark, and had really loooong legs!)and was practically
hyperventilating in the kitchen. My poor mother was stuck in her
wheelchair in the hallway at 1am cuz the creature was in her room and
i couldnt put her to bed with it in there...
In the end, Seamus ended up throwing a shoe at it, which of course
only startled it and had no fatal effect...he lost out on his $20
bribe and we had to spend the next two days there with the horrible
knowledge that a monster still lurks in the shadows of my mother's
house...
i shudder just remembering it.....
So yeah, i will bribe in certain circumstances, but not for stuff
like "chores" and other stuff.
katherine
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/15/2004 11:21:18 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
queenjane555@... writes:
Last week i offered Seamus $20 in cold hard cash if he would kill the
GIANT centipede on the wall. We'd been running around the room
screaming "you kill it!" "No, YOU kill it!"
-----------------
Darn, I wish I'd been there. Not for the $20; I don't mean that. <g>
I can do bugs. I killed a black widow spider tonight, out in the yard,
that Holly had found.
If you can or want to do a "bug bomb," the kind of can you set and stay out
of the house for several hours, it might not killl the centipede, but it will
come out and be stunned on the floor, at least. Then you can get it in a jar
and take it outside, put it on the sidewalk and set a brick on it or something.
We bug-bombed a two-room old adobe house my mom was living in for a while,
years ago. Lots of spiders died. Centipedes were still moving, but not much.
They had come out to get some air, sothey weren't hiding either.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
queenjane555@... writes:
Last week i offered Seamus $20 in cold hard cash if he would kill the
GIANT centipede on the wall. We'd been running around the room
screaming "you kill it!" "No, YOU kill it!"
-----------------
Darn, I wish I'd been there. Not for the $20; I don't mean that. <g>
I can do bugs. I killed a black widow spider tonight, out in the yard,
that Holly had found.
If you can or want to do a "bug bomb," the kind of can you set and stay out
of the house for several hours, it might not killl the centipede, but it will
come out and be stunned on the floor, at least. Then you can get it in a jar
and take it outside, put it on the sidewalk and set a brick on it or something.
We bug-bombed a two-room old adobe house my mom was living in for a while,
years ago. Lots of spiders died. Centipedes were still moving, but not much.
They had come out to get some air, sothey weren't hiding either.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Leonor Gomes
--- queenjane555 <queenjane555@...> wrote:
If Seamus could have said "no", of course.
I think bribery doesn't bring out the best in people.
Leo
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> Last week i offered Seamus $20 in cold hard cash ifI don't think this is bribery, it's just a contract.
> he would kill the
> GIANT centipede on the wall.
If Seamus could have said "no", of course.
I think bribery doesn't bring out the best in people.
Leo
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