"I'm not good at anything"
Have a Nice Day!
Ok, what can I say to my son?
He is 15 and told me today he doesn't think he is good at anything.
After unschooling and encouraging him and being there etc etc etc....HOW is it I have a child who feels this way?
Kristen, who feels like a failure now
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
He is 15 and told me today he doesn't think he is good at anything.
After unschooling and encouraging him and being there etc etc etc....HOW is it I have a child who feels this way?
Kristen, who feels like a failure now
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Kristen,
Please don't take it personally, and also don't feel defeated, because he is
only acting 15. I am just now coming out of the the first wave of this teen
angst storm with my oldest dd (16). She did alot of questioning herself, us,
the world, and what is her purpose?. Such heavy thinking for a young person.
All you can do is keep being supportive, keep him busy,
and learn to fly in under his radar to redirect his thoughts toward the
postive things in his life.
Whatever his passions are...use them, expand on them, help him find
activities in the community that utilize his talents. Find new and exciting things to
do (some days this is hard, because nothing is exciting and they aren't
interested, but try anyway).
My daughter is a gifted writer, artist, musician, web designer, and much
more, but to her she was terrible at everything. She was so hard on herself, and
I was feeling very helpless. She has weathered this storm, and has a better
understanding of herself, and her goals in life...at least for now.
It can be very frustrating, because one minute they are professing how much
they love you, and the next their head is spinning, then they are depressed,
and it starts over again. :D Just remember don't take it to heart,
because...This too shall pass! Meanwhile you are not alone. :D
Elaine
In a message dated 3/30/2004 11:17:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
Ok, what can I say to my son?
He is 15 and told me today he doesn't think he is good at anything.
After unschooling and encouraging him and being there etc etc etc....HOW is
it I have a child who feels this way?
Kristen, who feels like a failure now
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Please don't take it personally, and also don't feel defeated, because he is
only acting 15. I am just now coming out of the the first wave of this teen
angst storm with my oldest dd (16). She did alot of questioning herself, us,
the world, and what is her purpose?. Such heavy thinking for a young person.
All you can do is keep being supportive, keep him busy,
and learn to fly in under his radar to redirect his thoughts toward the
postive things in his life.
Whatever his passions are...use them, expand on them, help him find
activities in the community that utilize his talents. Find new and exciting things to
do (some days this is hard, because nothing is exciting and they aren't
interested, but try anyway).
My daughter is a gifted writer, artist, musician, web designer, and much
more, but to her she was terrible at everything. She was so hard on herself, and
I was feeling very helpless. She has weathered this storm, and has a better
understanding of herself, and her goals in life...at least for now.
It can be very frustrating, because one minute they are professing how much
they love you, and the next their head is spinning, then they are depressed,
and it starts over again. :D Just remember don't take it to heart,
because...This too shall pass! Meanwhile you are not alone. :D
Elaine
In a message dated 3/30/2004 11:17:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
Ok, what can I say to my son?
He is 15 and told me today he doesn't think he is good at anything.
After unschooling and encouraging him and being there etc etc etc....HOW is
it I have a child who feels this way?
Kristen, who feels like a failure now
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
I have THREE teenage daughters. Ask me if I know about mood swings! <G>
Sometimes teens need a LOT of reassurance. So just keep showing him
your confidence in him at the same time that you understand and
sympathize with his fears. It is sometimes harder on our unschooled
kids at this age than their schooled counterparts because our kids are
entering adulthood eyes wide open - they "get it" that they are moving
into adult responsibilities, etc., and they are (justifiably) sometimes
freaked out by it all. The schooled kids more often don't really grasp
what's coming - they're just following orders, going through the
expected motions. Our unschooled kids are thinking - and their thoughts
can be overwhelming and scary and they can easily feel inadequate to
face the future.
Help him understand that he isn't supposed to be especially great at
anything - he's just entering the time of his life where he MIGHT start
to focus in on some things to eventually become good at, but he has
time, there is no hurry and you really hope he'll continue to enjoy his
life and not worry yet about what he's "good at," but just explore all
his options and do what satisfies him, for now. Some people specialize
and become really good at something while they're young, but others
dabble in a variety of activities and they know a little about a lot of
things and that's good too even if it seems like they aren't super good
at anything in particular. That will come later.
-pam
Sometimes teens need a LOT of reassurance. So just keep showing him
your confidence in him at the same time that you understand and
sympathize with his fears. It is sometimes harder on our unschooled
kids at this age than their schooled counterparts because our kids are
entering adulthood eyes wide open - they "get it" that they are moving
into adult responsibilities, etc., and they are (justifiably) sometimes
freaked out by it all. The schooled kids more often don't really grasp
what's coming - they're just following orders, going through the
expected motions. Our unschooled kids are thinking - and their thoughts
can be overwhelming and scary and they can easily feel inadequate to
face the future.
Help him understand that he isn't supposed to be especially great at
anything - he's just entering the time of his life where he MIGHT start
to focus in on some things to eventually become good at, but he has
time, there is no hurry and you really hope he'll continue to enjoy his
life and not worry yet about what he's "good at," but just explore all
his options and do what satisfies him, for now. Some people specialize
and become really good at something while they're young, but others
dabble in a variety of activities and they know a little about a lot of
things and that's good too even if it seems like they aren't super good
at anything in particular. That will come later.
-pam
On Mar 30, 2004, at 8:14 PM, Have a Nice Day! wrote:
> Ok, what can I say to my son?
>
> He is 15 and told me today he doesn't think he is good at anything.
>
> After unschooling and encouraging him and being there etc etc
> etc....HOW is it I have a child who feels this way?
>
> Kristen, who feels like a failure now
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Anita Bower
At 11:14 PM 3/30/2004, you wrote:
year old son.
When I can get some perspective on it, I remind myself that adolescence is
a time of lots of emotions, often extreme emotions. One sees it more often
in girls, but, it stands to reason that boys go through it also.
Also, it is normal for one to feel one is not good at anything now and
then. You signed your email as feeling like a failure.
Ross tends to have these feelings more when he is tired. When he is
rested, he has a more positive outlook on life.
Sometimes Ross despairs of knowing what his adult work will be. It is
normal not to know at this age.
Ross and I talk about all these things, and it helps us both.
I then make sure to affirm him a lot, pointing out what he is good at. It
is obvious to me what he is good at, but it is not so obvious to him. I
think he needs to hear it a lot.
Anita Bower
>Ok, what can I say to my son?My heart goes out to you. I have had the same experience with my almost 15
>
>He is 15 and told me today he doesn't think he is good at anything.
year old son.
>After unschooling and encouraging him and being there etc etc etc....HOWThis has been my question, also.
>is it I have a child who feels this way?
When I can get some perspective on it, I remind myself that adolescence is
a time of lots of emotions, often extreme emotions. One sees it more often
in girls, but, it stands to reason that boys go through it also.
Also, it is normal for one to feel one is not good at anything now and
then. You signed your email as feeling like a failure.
Ross tends to have these feelings more when he is tired. When he is
rested, he has a more positive outlook on life.
Sometimes Ross despairs of knowing what his adult work will be. It is
normal not to know at this age.
Ross and I talk about all these things, and it helps us both.
I then make sure to affirm him a lot, pointing out what he is good at. It
is obvious to me what he is good at, but it is not so obvious to him. I
think he needs to hear it a lot.
>Kristen, who feels like a failure nowWe moms take on a lot!
Anita Bower
Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], "Have a Nice Day!" <litlrooh@e...>
wrote:
ways in which he uses his time and comment on those.
Does he play X box? Is he good at watching movies and enjoying them? Is he learning to
drive yet? Does he fiddle with gadgets? Read lots of books? Listen to hours and hours of
heavy metal or emo or whatever music he loves? Is he a kid with oodles of friends? Play
any sports? Is he sensitive and empathetic, good at thinking on his feet, creative, or
analytical?
Sounds like being a teen to me.
Last week we were discussing some of these kinds of feelings with a psychologist. He said
to us repeatedly: 16 is just so young. He's got years to sort things out. The kids in school
are just following orders, but your kids are safely living their lives until they know who
they are and what they want to do.
School kids go through a similar sense of loss of direction around the end of college when
they are suddenly faced with getting jobs.
pass...
Julie
wrote:
> Ok, what can I say to my son?After empathizing with that feeling (that is so real when he feels it)... perhaps notice the
>
> He is 15 and told me today he doesn't think he is good at anything.
ways in which he uses his time and comment on those.
Does he play X box? Is he good at watching movies and enjoying them? Is he learning to
drive yet? Does he fiddle with gadgets? Read lots of books? Listen to hours and hours of
heavy metal or emo or whatever music he loves? Is he a kid with oodles of friends? Play
any sports? Is he sensitive and empathetic, good at thinking on his feet, creative, or
analytical?
>child who feels this way?
> After unschooling and encouraging him and being there etc etc etc....HOW is it I have a
Sounds like being a teen to me.
Last week we were discussing some of these kinds of feelings with a psychologist. He said
to us repeatedly: 16 is just so young. He's got years to sort things out. The kids in school
are just following orders, but your kids are safely living their lives until they know who
they are and what they want to do.
School kids go through a similar sense of loss of direction around the end of college when
they are suddenly faced with getting jobs.
>Hugs Kristen. Does it help to know that I go through that feeling at times too? It does
> Kristen, who feels like a failure now
pass...
Julie
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/30/04 9:17:07 PM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< He is 15 and told me today he doesn't think he is good at anything.
After unschooling and encouraging him and being there etc etc etc....HOW is
it I have a child who feels this way? >>
Because he's 15 and angst is natural.
Teach him that term and concept and say that the hormone storm that teens
live through causes angst, but he'll feel better as he reaches adulthood.
Very few 15 year olds are "good at anything" in one way of looking at it.
Few of them could make a living at that moment at something really flashy and
impressive. And part of growing up is that self-reflection about "NOW what?"
But what is fun for him? Concentrate on fun and distraction and find
situations where he'll see the sky and feel the breeze on his face and maybe stir
your life up to where he's seeing and doing new things for a while to get him
onto a new plateau. It might still be angsty, but angst with a new view.
There's nothing to prevent hormones.
Sandra
<< He is 15 and told me today he doesn't think he is good at anything.
After unschooling and encouraging him and being there etc etc etc....HOW is
it I have a child who feels this way? >>
Because he's 15 and angst is natural.
Teach him that term and concept and say that the hormone storm that teens
live through causes angst, but he'll feel better as he reaches adulthood.
Very few 15 year olds are "good at anything" in one way of looking at it.
Few of them could make a living at that moment at something really flashy and
impressive. And part of growing up is that self-reflection about "NOW what?"
But what is fun for him? Concentrate on fun and distraction and find
situations where he'll see the sky and feel the breeze on his face and maybe stir
your life up to where he's seeing and doing new things for a while to get him
onto a new plateau. It might still be angsty, but angst with a new view.
There's nothing to prevent hormones.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/31/04 1:52:29 AM, Moondancermom@... writes:
<< this teen
angst storm >>
AHA!!!
Elaine also used the words "angst" and "storm."
Honest, I didn't copy. <bwg>
Sandra
<< this teen
angst storm >>
AHA!!!
Elaine also used the words "angst" and "storm."
Honest, I didn't copy. <bwg>
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/31/2004 3:59:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
The schooled kids more often don't really grasp
what's coming - they're just following orders, going through the
expected motions. Our unschooled kids are thinking - and their thoughts
can be overwhelming and scary and they can easily feel inadequate to
face the future.
Help him understand that he isn't supposed to be especially great at
anything - he's just entering the time of his life where he MIGHT start
to focus in on some things to eventually become good at, but he has
time, there is no hurry and you really hope he'll continue to enjoy his
life and not worry yet about what he's "good at," but just explore all
his options and do what satisfies him, for now. <<<<
All good info/advice----and I've seen it in Cameron too---although brief.
Remember that he sees adults GOOD at what they do: you and your husband, the
guy down the street, his mentor in his interest---most of us who are doing
what we love. It's easy to feel inadequate when everyone around you is better
than you! Point that out to him----and that we ALL went through a phase of
beginning.
When at dog shows I try to point out to newbies that the very judge that they
are freaking about showing under ALSO had his/her *first time* in the ring
however many years ago. We ALL start out as novices. It's passion and immersion
that leads us to get better and BE better. That judge had no more knowledge or
experience than anyone else his first time in the ring (well, those that were
born into dog families have a leg up, but they STILL had their *first* time
in the ring! <g>).
As Pam said----he's *just* starting out. Most school kids don't have that
feeling he's having until they are twenty-something and just out of college!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamsoroosh@... writes:
The schooled kids more often don't really grasp
what's coming - they're just following orders, going through the
expected motions. Our unschooled kids are thinking - and their thoughts
can be overwhelming and scary and they can easily feel inadequate to
face the future.
Help him understand that he isn't supposed to be especially great at
anything - he's just entering the time of his life where he MIGHT start
to focus in on some things to eventually become good at, but he has
time, there is no hurry and you really hope he'll continue to enjoy his
life and not worry yet about what he's "good at," but just explore all
his options and do what satisfies him, for now. <<<<
All good info/advice----and I've seen it in Cameron too---although brief.
Remember that he sees adults GOOD at what they do: you and your husband, the
guy down the street, his mentor in his interest---most of us who are doing
what we love. It's easy to feel inadequate when everyone around you is better
than you! Point that out to him----and that we ALL went through a phase of
beginning.
When at dog shows I try to point out to newbies that the very judge that they
are freaking about showing under ALSO had his/her *first time* in the ring
however many years ago. We ALL start out as novices. It's passion and immersion
that leads us to get better and BE better. That judge had no more knowledge or
experience than anyone else his first time in the ring (well, those that were
born into dog families have a leg up, but they STILL had their *first* time
in the ring! <g>).
As Pam said----he's *just* starting out. Most school kids don't have that
feeling he's having until they are twenty-something and just out of college!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/31/2004 8:47:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
Very few 15 year olds are "good at anything" in one way of looking at it.
Few of them could make a living at that moment at something really flashy and
impressive. <<<<
And I think that what has made it easier for Cameron is that he WAS really
good at something at 12. When he's struggling now, I can always bring up how
difficult the magic was for him when he first started. It's VERY easy for him to
see that with some (more) hard work, the drums and guitar and filming (the
current passions) will get easier and easier. ANd that new passions are just
around the corner.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
Very few 15 year olds are "good at anything" in one way of looking at it.
Few of them could make a living at that moment at something really flashy and
impressive. <<<<
And I think that what has made it easier for Cameron is that he WAS really
good at something at 12. When he's struggling now, I can always bring up how
difficult the magic was for him when he first started. It's VERY easy for him to
see that with some (more) hard work, the drums and guitar and filming (the
current passions) will get easier and easier. ANd that new passions are just
around the corner.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
Side of the Brain. Most people give up on drawing around fifth grade because it is the first
time they realize that the pleasure they take in drawing isn't producing accurate
representational drawing. They have, for the first time, an awareness of what "good
drawing" is. And they know suddenly (and with disappointment) that theirs isn't.
Unfortunately in our current educational model, we assume that drawing is some kind of
divinely imparted gift and can't be taught. So thousands of adults believe they are "bad" at
drawing and quit at about age ten. Truth is, we can all be taught to draw (I learned as an
adult and erased that feeling for life...). If someone realizes that how she draws isn't good
enough, more training and support can release her from that feeling and give her the
competence she craves.
When I think of a fifteen year old saying he isn't good at anything, I think of someone who
is for the first time aware of what it means to be good at something... taking pleasure in
an activity isn't the same as mastery or competence. But that's a wonderful moment if it
can be seized and explored.
If he knows what he wishes to be good at, then it's possible to work toward that end -
lessons, mentoring, volunteering, more time devoted each day, seminars, computer
programs... whatever.
If he doesn't know what he wishes to be good at, then more time of exploration will be
helpful (and it will be natural that he won't be good at what he explores while he's still
exploring....). He just needs to know that when he knows what interests him, he can
become good at it, competent. There are means to that end that he can pursue and he has
plenty of time to get there.
Julie
> Very few 15 year olds are "good at anything" in one way of looking at it.This reminds me of Betty Edwards comments in her wonderful book: Drawing on the Right
> Few of them could make a living at that moment at something really flashy and
> impressive. And part of growing up is that self-reflection about "NOW what?"
Side of the Brain. Most people give up on drawing around fifth grade because it is the first
time they realize that the pleasure they take in drawing isn't producing accurate
representational drawing. They have, for the first time, an awareness of what "good
drawing" is. And they know suddenly (and with disappointment) that theirs isn't.
Unfortunately in our current educational model, we assume that drawing is some kind of
divinely imparted gift and can't be taught. So thousands of adults believe they are "bad" at
drawing and quit at about age ten. Truth is, we can all be taught to draw (I learned as an
adult and erased that feeling for life...). If someone realizes that how she draws isn't good
enough, more training and support can release her from that feeling and give her the
competence she craves.
When I think of a fifteen year old saying he isn't good at anything, I think of someone who
is for the first time aware of what it means to be good at something... taking pleasure in
an activity isn't the same as mastery or competence. But that's a wonderful moment if it
can be seized and explored.
If he knows what he wishes to be good at, then it's possible to work toward that end -
lessons, mentoring, volunteering, more time devoted each day, seminars, computer
programs... whatever.
If he doesn't know what he wishes to be good at, then more time of exploration will be
helpful (and it will be natural that he won't be good at what he explores while he's still
exploring....). He just needs to know that when he knows what interests him, he can
become good at it, competent. There are means to that end that he can pursue and he has
plenty of time to get there.
Julie
Brian and Kathy Stamp
I wanted to add too that I think it shows what a great open communication you obviously have, that your son would even share this with you. How many teens out there feel this way, but turn to peers, alcohol, drugs or other escapes. Your son is going through something probably just about every human does, but has the luxury and benefit of sharing it with an open-minded, kind hearted listening ear, that truly cares about him.
Kathy
Kathy
----- Original Message -----
From: Diane
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] "I'm not good at anything"
I think this is interesting, because the unschooling moms here have more
of a connection with their sons and see more of their emotions then
school-moms do. As Americans, boys are taught to hide their emotions
more than I would suspect the average boy on this list is. That is, I
don't tell my six-year-old when he's skinned his knee to "quit being a
sissy, take it like a man!"
:-) Diane
>When I can get some perspective on it, I remind myself that adolescence is
>a time of lots of emotions, often extreme emotions. One sees it more often
>in girls, but, it stands to reason that boys go through it also.
>
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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[email protected]
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
THanks you guys...you really helped me a lot.
I think its true we are more in touch with their feelings. What made me feel so bad was the expression on his face. He almost looked like he wanted to cry!
I'll talk to him.
Kristen
I think its true we are more in touch with their feelings. What made me feel so bad was the expression on his face. He almost looked like he wanted to cry!
I'll talk to him.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Diane
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] "I'm not good at anything"
I think this is interesting, because the unschooling moms here have more
of a connection with their sons and see more of their emotions then
school-moms do. As Americans, boys are taught to hide their emotions
more than I would suspect the average boy on this list is. That is, I
don't tell my six-year-old when he's skinned his knee to "quit being a
sissy, take it like a man!"
:-) Diane
>When I can get some perspective on it, I remind myself that adolescence is
>a time of lots of emotions, often extreme emotions. One sees it more often
>in girls, but, it stands to reason that boys go through it also.
>
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
I think of someone who
is for the first time aware of what it means to be good at something... taking pleasure in
an activity isn't the same as mastery or competence. But that's a wonderful moment if it
can be seized and explored
*****************
Thanks Julie, this was very helpful.
I am so glad I asked about it buecause everyone's suggestions are such a huge help to me.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
is for the first time aware of what it means to be good at something... taking pleasure in
an activity isn't the same as mastery or competence. But that's a wonderful moment if it
can be seized and explored
*****************
Thanks Julie, this was very helpful.
I am so glad I asked about it buecause everyone's suggestions are such a huge help to me.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/31/2004 8:47:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
There's nothing to prevent hormones.
As if hormones wasn't enough, the brain is going through a huge rewiring
process at this time, and is actually the biggest reason for the many of the
changes in their personalities.
I did alot of research last year to help me understand and cope with my dd's
changes, and this was a huge help for me. Hope you enjoy!
Elaine
"New neuroscience research has shown that a crucial part of the brain
undergoes extensive changes during puberty -- precisely the time when the raging
hormones often blamed for teen behavior begin to wreak havoc. It's long been known
that the architecture of the brain is largely set in place during the first
few years of life. But with the aid of new technologies such as magnetic
resonance imaging (MRI), scientists are mapping changes in pre-teen and teenage
brains and finding evidence that remarkable growth and change continue for decades"
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
There's nothing to prevent hormones.
As if hormones wasn't enough, the brain is going through a huge rewiring
process at this time, and is actually the biggest reason for the many of the
changes in their personalities.
I did alot of research last year to help me understand and cope with my dd's
changes, and this was a huge help for me. Hope you enjoy!
Elaine
"New neuroscience research has shown that a crucial part of the brain
undergoes extensive changes during puberty -- precisely the time when the raging
hormones often blamed for teen behavior begin to wreak havoc. It's long been known
that the architecture of the brain is largely set in place during the first
few years of life. But with the aid of new technologies such as magnetic
resonance imaging (MRI), scientists are mapping changes in pre-teen and teenage
brains and finding evidence that remarkable growth and change continue for decades"
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
** He is 15 and told me today he doesn't think he is good at anything.
**
I think a lot of kids have a big surge of unhappy hormones around this
age. My dh and I were both thinking about suicide when we were 15.
Compared to that experience (both in public school) your son does sound
happier and healthier.
Does he *believe* that he has the ability to improve his skills if he
chooses?
Betsy
**
I think a lot of kids have a big surge of unhappy hormones around this
age. My dh and I were both thinking about suicide when we were 15.
Compared to that experience (both in public school) your son does sound
happier and healthier.
Does he *believe* that he has the ability to improve his skills if he
chooses?
Betsy
Diane
I think this is interesting, because the unschooling moms here have more
of a connection with their sons and see more of their emotions then
school-moms do. As Americans, boys are taught to hide their emotions
more than I would suspect the average boy on this list is. That is, I
don't tell my six-year-old when he's skinned his knee to "quit being a
sissy, take it like a man!"
:-) Diane
of a connection with their sons and see more of their emotions then
school-moms do. As Americans, boys are taught to hide their emotions
more than I would suspect the average boy on this list is. That is, I
don't tell my six-year-old when he's skinned his knee to "quit being a
sissy, take it like a man!"
:-) Diane
>When I can get some perspective on it, I remind myself that adolescence is
>a time of lots of emotions, often extreme emotions. One sees it more often
>in girls, but, it stands to reason that boys go through it also.
>
pam sorooshian
On Mar 31, 2004, at 5:54 AM, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> (well, those that were born into dog families have a leg up,What an image!!! <G>
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Have a Nice Day!
It is interesting you mentioned the article. I read something similar in Prevention Magazine last month.
Now I'm trying to get my husband on board with the idea that ds *will* get a job, when he is ready, and to let him find his own way right now (instead of trying to find him a job he probably won't want).
Sigh! Balancing ds and dh has been a real task!!
Kristen
Now I'm trying to get my husband on board with the idea that ds *will* get a job, when he is ready, and to let him find his own way right now (instead of trying to find him a job he probably won't want).
Sigh! Balancing ds and dh has been a real task!!
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Moondancermom@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] "I'm not good at anything"
"New neuroscience research has shown that a crucial part of the brain
undergoes extensive changes during puberty -- precisely the time when the raging
hormones often blamed for teen behavior begin to wreak havoc.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Whitney S.
Perhaps he has what my mom calls "the curse of the gifted." This is when
someone is good at a number of different things, so many that they are
unable to see which path they aren meant to take. Because they don't excel
in only ONE thing , it is hard to see how many talents they have. Just
hearing that made me feel better as a teen. :)
someone is good at a number of different things, so many that they are
unable to see which path they aren meant to take. Because they don't excel
in only ONE thing , it is hard to see how many talents they have. Just
hearing that made me feel better as a teen. :)
[email protected]
<< Perhaps he has what my mom calls "the curse of the gifted." This is when
someone is good at a number of different things, so many that they are
unable to see which path they aren meant to take. Because they don't excel
in only ONE thing , it is hard to see how many talents they have. Just
hearing that made me feel better as a teen. :) >>
While I usually like to avoid discussions of "giftedness" as causing more
problems than they solve, a friend did send me this saying "Maybe this is my
problem" (his, he meant, not mine):
The Too Many Aptitude Problem
(Condensed from Danger:High Voltage)
by
Hank Pfeffer
Talent is a force, not a tool. Talent is neither good nor bad. Being
multi-talented is a very mixed blessing. For some people, it is a curse.
Ability or performance is the result of complex interaction between various
parts of the mind body system. Some parts of ability are due to "nurture".
The most important of these environmental factors is knowledge in one form or
another. Nature is the basis of talent.
We all know, understand and operate on more levels than just the conscious.
Talents or aptitudes are unlearned abilities - gut level and non-conscious
ways of operating. Some people call them knacks. Aptitudes have a major
impact not just on performance, but on our individual and unique states of
being. They are a big part of the reason " One man's meat is another man's
poison."
Most people know far more than they realize about knacks and talents.
People usually know if they are mechanical, have a sense of direction, pick up
languages, enjoy puzzles or are good with their hands. Anyone who has managed
or trained people has seen the clear impact of unlearned abilities. In any
area, some folks take to it like ducks to water. Once trained, they stay ahead
of the crowd. Others sweat to keep up, or fail miserably.
Strong talents do not equal high performance. Having the right knacks or
talents are head start and ongoing advantage. They are not very useful without
knowledge and motivation. Aptitudes have to be trained in order to be used
well. Peak performance occurs when one has the right combination of
talents, knowledge, motivation, opportunity, courage, luck, tools and the X factors.
About two dozen different and independent aptitudes are pretty well known,
with another couple dozen possibles and probables (see attached list). These
talents are simple things: types of memory, ways of processing information,
levels of perception. They are building blocks for more complex ways of
operating. They operate in a systemic way and are important factors in long t
erm performance and behavior.
Everyone seems to have each aptitude to some degree - high, mid range or
low. These seem to be genetic in origin, though a case can be made for the
influence of early childhood stimulation. It is a moot question for adults. By
the time someone passes puberty, the aptitudes are roughly stable (when
performance on aptitude tests is compared to others in the same age group). . . .
And it goes on (and on) here:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/gibson/240/
It's kind of like Gardner's Multiple Intelligences, and it's interesting
enough but I wouldnt' take it to the bank or even slip with it under my pillow.
Sandra
someone is good at a number of different things, so many that they are
unable to see which path they aren meant to take. Because they don't excel
in only ONE thing , it is hard to see how many talents they have. Just
hearing that made me feel better as a teen. :) >>
While I usually like to avoid discussions of "giftedness" as causing more
problems than they solve, a friend did send me this saying "Maybe this is my
problem" (his, he meant, not mine):
The Too Many Aptitude Problem
(Condensed from Danger:High Voltage)
by
Hank Pfeffer
Talent is a force, not a tool. Talent is neither good nor bad. Being
multi-talented is a very mixed blessing. For some people, it is a curse.
Ability or performance is the result of complex interaction between various
parts of the mind body system. Some parts of ability are due to "nurture".
The most important of these environmental factors is knowledge in one form or
another. Nature is the basis of talent.
We all know, understand and operate on more levels than just the conscious.
Talents or aptitudes are unlearned abilities - gut level and non-conscious
ways of operating. Some people call them knacks. Aptitudes have a major
impact not just on performance, but on our individual and unique states of
being. They are a big part of the reason " One man's meat is another man's
poison."
Most people know far more than they realize about knacks and talents.
People usually know if they are mechanical, have a sense of direction, pick up
languages, enjoy puzzles or are good with their hands. Anyone who has managed
or trained people has seen the clear impact of unlearned abilities. In any
area, some folks take to it like ducks to water. Once trained, they stay ahead
of the crowd. Others sweat to keep up, or fail miserably.
Strong talents do not equal high performance. Having the right knacks or
talents are head start and ongoing advantage. They are not very useful without
knowledge and motivation. Aptitudes have to be trained in order to be used
well. Peak performance occurs when one has the right combination of
talents, knowledge, motivation, opportunity, courage, luck, tools and the X factors.
About two dozen different and independent aptitudes are pretty well known,
with another couple dozen possibles and probables (see attached list). These
talents are simple things: types of memory, ways of processing information,
levels of perception. They are building blocks for more complex ways of
operating. They operate in a systemic way and are important factors in long t
erm performance and behavior.
Everyone seems to have each aptitude to some degree - high, mid range or
low. These seem to be genetic in origin, though a case can be made for the
influence of early childhood stimulation. It is a moot question for adults. By
the time someone passes puberty, the aptitudes are roughly stable (when
performance on aptitude tests is compared to others in the same age group). . . .
And it goes on (and on) here:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/gibson/240/
It's kind of like Gardner's Multiple Intelligences, and it's interesting
enough but I wouldnt' take it to the bank or even slip with it under my pillow.
Sandra
Anita Bower
> whenThis rings true to my experience. I was burdened by having lots of
>
>someone is good at a number of different things, so many that they are
>
>unable to see which path they aren meant to take. Because they don't excel
>
>in only ONE thing , it is hard to see how many talents they have.
"potential," whatever that means. "Potential" felt like a heavy suitcase
chained to my ankles that I had to drag through life but which I did not
know how to open. My "potential" never served me well, or, perhaps, I just
didn't know how to use it.
I was raised with the idea of having a career. My great failure in life
was never finding a career. I still feel bad about this.
Sigh..........
Anita Bower
tjreynoso
> This rings true to my experience. I was burdened by having lotsof
> "potential," whatever that means. "Potential" felt like a heavysuitcase
> chained to my ankles that I had to drag through life but which Idid not
> know how to open. My "potential" never served me well, or,perhaps, I just
> didn't know how to use it.in life
>
> I was raised with the idea of having a career. My great failure
> was never finding a career. I still feel bad about this.I can relate. I too was always told I had so much "potential". It
>
> Sigh..........
>
> Anita Bower
felt like a burden instead of being liberating. Everyone thought I
was going to be a lawyer, I'm not. I've always been very artistic.
I'm not an artist either. I haven't found a career. For a while this
really bothered me. How could someone with so much potential be such
a failure? Until I changed my perspective. I can argue pretty well,
I take on artistic projects for my own pleasure, I'm a pretty good
mom, I continue to learn new things and take on challenges for
pleasure instead of gain. I consider myself a happy person. When I
stopped feeling like I had to live up to my "potential" and just
enjoyed the many varied talents I had without feeling the need to
make them a career, I finally relaxed. It doesn't make me
a "slacker". It frees me to enjoy who I am right now without the
pressure to become someone else.
I want my sons to feel that freedom. To be who they are without
pressure of turning every single talent into a moneymaker because
you're "supposed to".
Tanya
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/1/04 8:40:14 AM, tjreynoso@... writes:
<< I too was always told I had so much "potential". It
felt like a burden instead of being liberating. Everyone thought I
was going to be a lawyer, I'm not. I've always been very artistic.
I'm not an artist either. >>
AMEN.
<<I want my sons to feel that freedom. To be who they are without
pressure of turning every single talent into a moneymaker because
you're "supposed to".>>
Praise GEEZus (or the higher-power entity of your choice).
Life sucks for "the formerly gifted" who didn't cure cancer or establish the
first Martian colony.
--Anonymous
<< I too was always told I had so much "potential". It
felt like a burden instead of being liberating. Everyone thought I
was going to be a lawyer, I'm not. I've always been very artistic.
I'm not an artist either. >>
AMEN.
<<I want my sons to feel that freedom. To be who they are without
pressure of turning every single talent into a moneymaker because
you're "supposed to".>>
Praise GEEZus (or the higher-power entity of your choice).
Life sucks for "the formerly gifted" who didn't cure cancer or establish the
first Martian colony.
--Anonymous
Have a Nice Day!
So then....
How does a parent encourage a talent, without making a child feel pressured?
I know I like to encourage my kids and when I see something they do well I say "hey, you could do that for a living".
For those of you who experienced the pressure, would a statement like this have added to the burden?
I'm curious because I don't want to do that to my kids.
KRisten
How does a parent encourage a talent, without making a child feel pressured?
I know I like to encourage my kids and when I see something they do well I say "hey, you could do that for a living".
For those of you who experienced the pressure, would a statement like this have added to the burden?
I'm curious because I don't want to do that to my kids.
KRisten
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: "I'm not good at anything"
<< I too was always told I had so much "potential". It
felt like a burden instead of being liberating.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/1/04 9:17:24 AM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< I know I like to encourage my kids and when I see something they do well I
say "hey, you could do that for a living". >>
If you soften it to "maybe someday you'll want to do something like this for
a living" it would be better.
It seems subtle, but I think it's worth qualifying those statements.
Kirby is really good at counselling and has been since he was little. If
kids were unhappy at our once-big playgroup, we would call on him or Sarah
Cordova (they'd known each other from infancy) to advise us or just go fix it. We
never even checked back with them if they said, "Oh. Yeah. We'll talk to
them." Between the two of them, they knew which of them would be best to do the
mediation/negotiation/jollying/advising/spinning, or would know which other
kid might be better. They never grandstanded it, they never even made it
obvious. They had a talent and used it in a real-world, direct way, when they were
too young to know it was remarkable.
When Kirby was 14 or 15 he counselled an older friend out of a divorce, and
he's still married a couple of years later and happy about it. What the hell
did Kirby know about marriage or divorce?! What he DID know was that his
friend was distraught and not thinking straight, and so he just helped him figure
out what he was thinking and feeling. It was done late night by e-mail or
instant message or something.
When Kirby told me about that one, I said "That's what marriage counsellors
do for money!" and basically just gave him the "attaboy, good for you" and told
him his friend was really lucky to have him. Another time I told him he
might someday want to take a psychology class or two to see if he's interested in
that sort of thing since he already has a talent.
In Howard Gardner's intelligences, what Kirby has that makes that happen is a
combination of interpersonal and logical.
Indicating lightly that there are "pursuits" and paid positions involving
those talents isn't putting pressure on him. It might just be a side-thing his
whole life. And I suspect it's genetic. I've always been one of those
people others tend to confide in lines at grocery stores, or at company barbecues.
Other people are talking about sports and weather, and someone has zeroed in
on me to tell of sexual dysfunction or spiritual angst or something. If any
of you have a clue why that happens, I'm curious. Do I SMELL curious!? <g>
I've talked to other people that happens to as well, but they didn't know
what it was either.
Sandra
Sandra
<< I know I like to encourage my kids and when I see something they do well I
say "hey, you could do that for a living". >>
If you soften it to "maybe someday you'll want to do something like this for
a living" it would be better.
It seems subtle, but I think it's worth qualifying those statements.
Kirby is really good at counselling and has been since he was little. If
kids were unhappy at our once-big playgroup, we would call on him or Sarah
Cordova (they'd known each other from infancy) to advise us or just go fix it. We
never even checked back with them if they said, "Oh. Yeah. We'll talk to
them." Between the two of them, they knew which of them would be best to do the
mediation/negotiation/jollying/advising/spinning, or would know which other
kid might be better. They never grandstanded it, they never even made it
obvious. They had a talent and used it in a real-world, direct way, when they were
too young to know it was remarkable.
When Kirby was 14 or 15 he counselled an older friend out of a divorce, and
he's still married a couple of years later and happy about it. What the hell
did Kirby know about marriage or divorce?! What he DID know was that his
friend was distraught and not thinking straight, and so he just helped him figure
out what he was thinking and feeling. It was done late night by e-mail or
instant message or something.
When Kirby told me about that one, I said "That's what marriage counsellors
do for money!" and basically just gave him the "attaboy, good for you" and told
him his friend was really lucky to have him. Another time I told him he
might someday want to take a psychology class or two to see if he's interested in
that sort of thing since he already has a talent.
In Howard Gardner's intelligences, what Kirby has that makes that happen is a
combination of interpersonal and logical.
Indicating lightly that there are "pursuits" and paid positions involving
those talents isn't putting pressure on him. It might just be a side-thing his
whole life. And I suspect it's genetic. I've always been one of those
people others tend to confide in lines at grocery stores, or at company barbecues.
Other people are talking about sports and weather, and someone has zeroed in
on me to tell of sexual dysfunction or spiritual angst or something. If any
of you have a clue why that happens, I'm curious. Do I SMELL curious!? <g>
I've talked to other people that happens to as well, but they didn't know
what it was either.
Sandra
Sandra
Lisa H
Kristen wrote:
<<I know I like to encourage my kids and when I see something they do well I say "hey, you could do that for a living"...How does a parent encourage a talent, without making a child feel pressured?>>
#######
They will figure out what to do for a living all by themselves. You don't need to tell them (unless they are asking for that information). It also takes the joy out of the moment by placing emphasis on future events. Stay in the moment.
I think pressure comes from being pushed in a direction not of their own choosing - not a simple acknowledgement of a job well done or expressing joy in your child's own sense of accomplishment. Being careful not to identify accomplishments only by your judgment of what's worthwhile but being sensitive to what they find worthwhile.
I still can't stand it when I do something and my mother says to me..."you could be a...." - to me I already am a........
Lisa H.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<I know I like to encourage my kids and when I see something they do well I say "hey, you could do that for a living"...How does a parent encourage a talent, without making a child feel pressured?>>
#######
They will figure out what to do for a living all by themselves. You don't need to tell them (unless they are asking for that information). It also takes the joy out of the moment by placing emphasis on future events. Stay in the moment.
I think pressure comes from being pushed in a direction not of their own choosing - not a simple acknowledgement of a job well done or expressing joy in your child's own sense of accomplishment. Being careful not to identify accomplishments only by your judgment of what's worthwhile but being sensitive to what they find worthwhile.
I still can't stand it when I do something and my mother says to me..."you could be a...." - to me I already am a........
Lisa H.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
Good point. THanks for sharing that with me.
Kristen
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa H
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: "I'm not good at anything"
Kristen wrote:
<<I know I like to encourage my kids and when I see something they do well I say "hey, you could do that for a living"...How does a parent encourage a talent, without making a child feel pressured?>>
#######
They will figure out what to do for a living all by themselves. You don't need to tell them (unless they are asking for that information). It also takes the joy out of the moment by placing emphasis on future events. Stay in the moment.
I think pressure comes from being pushed in a direction not of their own choosing - not a simple acknowledgement of a job well done or expressing joy in your child's own sense of accomplishment. Being careful not to identify accomplishments only by your judgment of what's worthwhile but being sensitive to what they find worthwhile.
I still can't stand it when I do something and my mother says to me..."you could be a...." - to me I already am a........
Lisa H.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tjreynoso
You can facilitate their talents by providing opportunities. The
same way you unschool. If they like something you usually find
outings or books or...etc. The difference is that you don't "zone
in" on the talent and make it who "they are". Their talents don't
have to become them, just a part of who they are. Because if for
some reason they later find they're not that great at it compared to
others or change pursuits they will feel like a part of their
identity is gone.
In today's society we become our careers. I don't want to be a
career. I want to be me who happens to have a particular career.
Your talents shouldn't be your identifiers.
Our talents are a big part of who we are. They're part of the larger
make-up of our selves. They shouldn't entail our entire selves.
Think about what would happen to an artist or pianist who suddenly
one day lost the use of their hands. They would feel useless if they
thought that an artist or pianist was ALL they were.
Tanya
--- In [email protected], "Have a Nice Day!"
<litlrooh@e...> wrote:
same way you unschool. If they like something you usually find
outings or books or...etc. The difference is that you don't "zone
in" on the talent and make it who "they are". Their talents don't
have to become them, just a part of who they are. Because if for
some reason they later find they're not that great at it compared to
others or change pursuits they will feel like a part of their
identity is gone.
In today's society we become our careers. I don't want to be a
career. I want to be me who happens to have a particular career.
Your talents shouldn't be your identifiers.
Our talents are a big part of who we are. They're part of the larger
make-up of our selves. They shouldn't entail our entire selves.
Think about what would happen to an artist or pianist who suddenly
one day lost the use of their hands. They would feel useless if they
thought that an artist or pianist was ALL they were.
Tanya
--- In [email protected], "Have a Nice Day!"
<litlrooh@e...> wrote:
> So then....pressured?
>
> How does a parent encourage a talent, without making a child feel
>do well I say "hey, you could do that for a living".
> I know I like to encourage my kids and when I see something they
>like this have added to the burden?
> For those of you who experienced the pressure, would a statement
>anything"
> I'm curious because I don't want to do that to my kids.
>
> KRisten
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: SandraDodd@a...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: "I'm not good at
>
>
>
> << I too was always told I had so much "potential". It
>
> felt like a burden instead of being liberating.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anita Bower
At 12:08 PM 4/1/2004, you wrote:
I think I never found work I enjoyed in part because of a lack of parental
guidance and support. My parents were living in south America at the time
I was a young adult and were unable to help me sort things out. (That was
before email or even inexpensive international phone calls).
I knew I was intelligent but, I didn't have direction.
I want to be able to help Ross find both activities he enjoys and work that
is satisfying and will pay the bills. I don't want him to work at low
paying jobs for lack of direction. That is disheartening. If he doesn't
know what he truly loves, perhaps he can find decent paying work that is at
least interesting. Someday he might combine earning money with his
passions, but, maybe not.
I wonder how to help him in all this.
Anita Bower
>Kristen wrote:I agree with all of the above, including the question posed by Kristen.
><<I know I like to encourage my kids and when I see something they do well
>I say "hey, you could do that for a living"...How does a parent encourage
>a talent, without making a child feel pressured?>>
>
>#######
>
>They will figure out what to do for a living all by themselves. You don't
>need to tell them (unless they are asking for that information). It also
>takes the joy out of the moment by placing emphasis on future
>events. Stay in the moment.
I think I never found work I enjoyed in part because of a lack of parental
guidance and support. My parents were living in south America at the time
I was a young adult and were unable to help me sort things out. (That was
before email or even inexpensive international phone calls).
I knew I was intelligent but, I didn't have direction.
I want to be able to help Ross find both activities he enjoys and work that
is satisfying and will pay the bills. I don't want him to work at low
paying jobs for lack of direction. That is disheartening. If he doesn't
know what he truly loves, perhaps he can find decent paying work that is at
least interesting. Someday he might combine earning money with his
passions, but, maybe not.
I wonder how to help him in all this.
Anita Bower
>I think pressure comes from being pushed in a direction not of their own
>choosing - not a simple acknowledgement of a job well done or expressing
>joy in your child's own sense of accomplishment. Being careful not to
>identify accomplishments only by your judgment of what's worthwhile but
>being sensitive to what they find worthwhile.
>
>I still can't stand it when I do something and my mother says to me..."you
>could be a...." - to me I already am a........
>
>Lisa H.
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
>Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
><http://www.unschooling.com>http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
>----------
>Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> *
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