re: fun in violence
Mark and Rheta Wallingford
My kids are young so I haven't experienced the SIMS yet but I can
understand wanting to see what happens to computerized characters. They
know they are not real and can do anything they want to see what
happens. There is no "real" consequence so they can really explore the
dimensions of the game. I grew up with Pac Man and Pong . not much you
can do with those!
I probably would do both - first say "that's terrible" and then laugh.
My first response would be a conditioned response so the collective
"they" wouldn't think I was a mean person who enjoyed hurting people but
I would probably think it was funny because my sense of humor is kind of
dry. My dh gets the brunt of that when he stubs his toe and I laugh
hysterically - but I do the same when I hurt myself (which could be
considered odd I guess if I stop to think about it).
My 5yo once in a while plays with dolls and says "I'm going to kill you,
you are dead now!" She realized what death was last year when her Nana
died so she understands that you go away forever. I think she's just
working out the concept. Although I did once say "I'm going to brain
your father!" and she took me very literally. "No MOM! You can't take
daddy's brain!" I had to explain about phrases we use but assured her I
would not actually take his brain. I know I've had a few people tell me
I'm too honest with my kids. I've explained how a baby is born after
Isabel, my 5yo, watched "A baby story" on Discovery Channel and saw the
baby come out. People have said that kids don't need to know that yet.
You know your child and what they can understand. I'm not good at lying
so can't even think of what would be an "appropriate" response by other
people's standards - I'm too busy trying to think of a way to explain
things in a way she would understand knowing what she's already learned
and building from that.
Rheta
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
understand wanting to see what happens to computerized characters. They
know they are not real and can do anything they want to see what
happens. There is no "real" consequence so they can really explore the
dimensions of the game. I grew up with Pac Man and Pong . not much you
can do with those!
I probably would do both - first say "that's terrible" and then laugh.
My first response would be a conditioned response so the collective
"they" wouldn't think I was a mean person who enjoyed hurting people but
I would probably think it was funny because my sense of humor is kind of
dry. My dh gets the brunt of that when he stubs his toe and I laugh
hysterically - but I do the same when I hurt myself (which could be
considered odd I guess if I stop to think about it).
My 5yo once in a while plays with dolls and says "I'm going to kill you,
you are dead now!" She realized what death was last year when her Nana
died so she understands that you go away forever. I think she's just
working out the concept. Although I did once say "I'm going to brain
your father!" and she took me very literally. "No MOM! You can't take
daddy's brain!" I had to explain about phrases we use but assured her I
would not actually take his brain. I know I've had a few people tell me
I'm too honest with my kids. I've explained how a baby is born after
Isabel, my 5yo, watched "A baby story" on Discovery Channel and saw the
baby come out. People have said that kids don't need to know that yet.
You know your child and what they can understand. I'm not good at lying
so can't even think of what would be an "appropriate" response by other
people's standards - I'm too busy trying to think of a way to explain
things in a way she would understand knowing what she's already learned
and building from that.
Rheta
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
<<I've explained how a baby is born after Isabel, my 5yo, watched "A baby
story" on Discovery Channel and saw the baby come out. People have said
that kids don't need to know that yet.>>
Jayn completely understands that she grew in my belly, although she believes
she came out through my peepee, which is OK for now. We have talked a lot
about the night she was born, and she loves hearing about it, and how she
grew from tiny to big.
Not surprisingly, she is fuzzy about the mechanism for getting pregnant. The
other day she told dh and I that she wanted a baby sister, and we were
laughingly saying that she would need to leave Daddy and I alone together
for a while. That apparently percolated around in her head for a while. She
and I were at the mall, where there seemed to be a preponderance of pregnant
women. Jayn turned to me and said she "wished I would be pregnant soon, and
she would let me get some sleep with Daddy in the bedroom so I could get a
baby inside."
Robyn L. Coburn
---
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story" on Discovery Channel and saw the baby come out. People have said
that kids don't need to know that yet.>>
Jayn completely understands that she grew in my belly, although she believes
she came out through my peepee, which is OK for now. We have talked a lot
about the night she was born, and she loves hearing about it, and how she
grew from tiny to big.
Not surprisingly, she is fuzzy about the mechanism for getting pregnant. The
other day she told dh and I that she wanted a baby sister, and we were
laughingly saying that she would need to leave Daddy and I alone together
for a while. That apparently percolated around in her head for a while. She
and I were at the mall, where there seemed to be a preponderance of pregnant
women. Jayn turned to me and said she "wished I would be pregnant soon, and
she would let me get some sleep with Daddy in the bedroom so I could get a
baby inside."
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.567 / Virus Database: 358 - Release Date: 1/24/2004
[email protected]
-=-My kids are young so I haven't experienced the SIMS yet but I can
understand wanting to see what happens to computerized characters. They
know they are not real and can do anything they want to see what
happens. There is no "real" consequence so they can really explore the
dimensions of the game.
-=-
On Broderbund's Treehouse, if you threw the teddy bear in the pond, a fish
would spit it back up on shore. <g> I guess my kids have been playing wrong for
a long time, come to think of it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
understand wanting to see what happens to computerized characters. They
know they are not real and can do anything they want to see what
happens. There is no "real" consequence so they can really explore the
dimensions of the game.
-=-
On Broderbund's Treehouse, if you threw the teddy bear in the pond, a fish
would spit it back up on shore. <g> I guess my kids have been playing wrong for
a long time, come to think of it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
of the suggestions for aspiring programmers was to try to crash the games or to try out
every possible variable for a character to see what would happen (or didn't happen).
Playing the games "wrong" is part of discoveriing what a program is capable of (and it also
might be a window into the programmer's quirky sense of humor, as well. <g>)
I remember the discussion on here about Grand Theft Auto awhile back and being glad my
kids didn't play it...
We now own it and I am surprised that I don't object to it! The writers have an incredibly
well-developed wit (sophisticated in its own right) and all the violence reminds me of this
discussion - seeing what can happen in the virtual world and in the art of programming
that you can never get away with in the rea worldl...
One last little note about violent tendencies in kids... I remember reading that the torture
of animals (real ones) is one of the strongest indicators of an absence of conscience and
violent tendencies in children. That's when it's appropriate to worry and look into getting
help for a child.
Julie
> On Broderbund's Treehouse, if you threw the teddy bear in the pond, a fishI wanted to add that when we looked at the job descriptions for gaming programmers, one
> would spit it back up on shore. <g> I guess my kids have been playing wrong for
> a long time, come to think of it.
>
of the suggestions for aspiring programmers was to try to crash the games or to try out
every possible variable for a character to see what would happen (or didn't happen).
Playing the games "wrong" is part of discoveriing what a program is capable of (and it also
might be a window into the programmer's quirky sense of humor, as well. <g>)
I remember the discussion on here about Grand Theft Auto awhile back and being glad my
kids didn't play it...
We now own it and I am surprised that I don't object to it! The writers have an incredibly
well-developed wit (sophisticated in its own right) and all the violence reminds me of this
discussion - seeing what can happen in the virtual world and in the art of programming
that you can never get away with in the rea worldl...
One last little note about violent tendencies in kids... I remember reading that the torture
of animals (real ones) is one of the strongest indicators of an absence of conscience and
violent tendencies in children. That's when it's appropriate to worry and look into getting
help for a child.
Julie
24hrmom
<< Julie Bogart wrote:
I wanted to add that when we looked at the job descriptions for gaming programmers, one
of the suggestions for aspiring programmers was to try to crash the games or to try out
every possible variable for a character to see what would happen (or didn't happen).
Playing the games "wrong" is part of discoveriing what a program is capable of (and it also
might be a window into the programmer's quirky sense of humor, as well. <g>) >>
Once Joseph has run through a game that's his fave thing to do. He plays around with it "wrong", seeing if he can get through without various party members joining, or with his experience points really high or low. Looking for places where you can "leave" the programming code altogether. Or using "cheat" codes to do various things, like make characters huge or tiny. You can really see how the screen objects are coded to interact with each other when you change, say their size, and see if and how the interactions change (say, with a fence!). And often the programmers will have "rewards" for having played through the game - for example if you played through Zelda Wind Waker once, the second time through you can play with Link in his pyjamas. ;-)
One really cool thing he found were AR codes for Wind Waker that opened up the test rooms to play around in. The floor and walls are all measured out, we figured so that they can check size relationships, certain enemies were placed around for testing out battle code etc. He had great fun with that for a few days.
Yesterday was his 12th birthday and he stayed up all night with the RPG Maker II game he got. I was just chatting with him and he was sooo excited. He said, "I may not have slept, but I had a great night!" He spent the night with the game, the guide book, and gamefaqs. :-) Then he went on to tell me how it lets you set up everything from scratch. All the character attributes, at what rate they gain experience points, moves they can learn at certain experience levels etc. Same with designing all the enemy attributes and on and on. He said developing a video game was more complicated than he thought, and mentioned how developing a real game would be even more complicated than this. And he asked if I could maybe help him figure out how to actually start up a game with his stuff. Sounds like fun to me!
Right now he's relaxing on the couch reading the Shaman King graphic novel he also received.
Thanks to Sandra for mentioning RPG Maker and to Joyce for mentioning Shonen Jump manga at Amazon!
Pam L
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I wanted to add that when we looked at the job descriptions for gaming programmers, one
of the suggestions for aspiring programmers was to try to crash the games or to try out
every possible variable for a character to see what would happen (or didn't happen).
Playing the games "wrong" is part of discoveriing what a program is capable of (and it also
might be a window into the programmer's quirky sense of humor, as well. <g>) >>
Once Joseph has run through a game that's his fave thing to do. He plays around with it "wrong", seeing if he can get through without various party members joining, or with his experience points really high or low. Looking for places where you can "leave" the programming code altogether. Or using "cheat" codes to do various things, like make characters huge or tiny. You can really see how the screen objects are coded to interact with each other when you change, say their size, and see if and how the interactions change (say, with a fence!). And often the programmers will have "rewards" for having played through the game - for example if you played through Zelda Wind Waker once, the second time through you can play with Link in his pyjamas. ;-)
One really cool thing he found were AR codes for Wind Waker that opened up the test rooms to play around in. The floor and walls are all measured out, we figured so that they can check size relationships, certain enemies were placed around for testing out battle code etc. He had great fun with that for a few days.
Yesterday was his 12th birthday and he stayed up all night with the RPG Maker II game he got. I was just chatting with him and he was sooo excited. He said, "I may not have slept, but I had a great night!" He spent the night with the game, the guide book, and gamefaqs. :-) Then he went on to tell me how it lets you set up everything from scratch. All the character attributes, at what rate they gain experience points, moves they can learn at certain experience levels etc. Same with designing all the enemy attributes and on and on. He said developing a video game was more complicated than he thought, and mentioned how developing a real game would be even more complicated than this. And he asked if I could maybe help him figure out how to actually start up a game with his stuff. Sounds like fun to me!
Right now he's relaxing on the couch reading the Shaman King graphic novel he also received.
Thanks to Sandra for mentioning RPG Maker and to Joyce for mentioning Shonen Jump manga at Amazon!
Pam L
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], "24hrmom" <24hrmom@s...> wrote:
experience points really high or low. Looking for places where you can "leave" the
programming code altogether. Or using "cheat" codes to do various things, like make
characters huge or tiny. You can really see how the screen objects are coded to interact
with each other when you change, say their size, and see if and how the interactions
change (say, with a fence!). And often the programmers will have "rewards" for having
played through the game - for example if you played through Zelda Wind Waker once, the
second time through you can play with Link in his pyjamas. ;-)
--This is great! I'm going to forward your post to my son so he can read what you shared
here.
he asked if I could maybe help him figure out how to actually start up a game with his
stuff. Sounds like fun to me!
--My 16 year old uses Visual Basic (which can be learned on the Internet) to write simple
gaming programs. He looked up bulletin boards for visual basic and has a place he can
interact with other programmers to get questions answered and bugs ironed out. One of
his greatest achievements last year was when he spent weeks thinking about a problem
presented on the forum. One day, he woke up and realized he had come to a solution. So
he wrote up how to get past whatever the obstacle was and got lots of positive feedback
from these mostly twenty-something year old guys! He was elated. Don't you love the
Internet?
Anyway, just wanted to suggest to you that you get Visual Basic for Dummies and do some
searching for tutorials on the net. Then your son can experience programming as well. :)
Julie
>"wrong", seeing if he can get through without various party members joining, or with his
> Once Joseph has run through a game that's his fave thing to do. He plays around with it
experience points really high or low. Looking for places where you can "leave" the
programming code altogether. Or using "cheat" codes to do various things, like make
characters huge or tiny. You can really see how the screen objects are coded to interact
with each other when you change, say their size, and see if and how the interactions
change (say, with a fence!). And often the programmers will have "rewards" for having
played through the game - for example if you played through Zelda Wind Waker once, the
second time through you can play with Link in his pyjamas. ;-)
--This is great! I'm going to forward your post to my son so he can read what you shared
here.
> He said developing a video game was more complicated than he thought, andmentioned how developing a real game would be even more complicated than this. And
he asked if I could maybe help him figure out how to actually start up a game with his
stuff. Sounds like fun to me!
--My 16 year old uses Visual Basic (which can be learned on the Internet) to write simple
gaming programs. He looked up bulletin boards for visual basic and has a place he can
interact with other programmers to get questions answered and bugs ironed out. One of
his greatest achievements last year was when he spent weeks thinking about a problem
presented on the forum. One day, he woke up and realized he had come to a solution. So
he wrote up how to get past whatever the obstacle was and got lots of positive feedback
from these mostly twenty-something year old guys! He was elated. Don't you love the
Internet?
Anyway, just wanted to suggest to you that you get Visual Basic for Dummies and do some
searching for tutorials on the net. Then your son can experience programming as well. :)
Julie
24hrmom
Julie Bogart wrote:
<< My 16 year old uses Visual Basic (which can be learned on the Internet) to write simple gaming programs. He looked up bulletin boards for visual basic and has a place he can interact with other programmers to get questions answered and bugs ironed out. One of his greatest achievements last year was when he spent weeks thinking about a problem presented on the forum. One day, he woke up and realized he had come to a solution. So he wrote up how to get past whatever the obstacle was and got lots of positive feedback from these mostly twenty-something year old guys! He was elated. Don't you love the Internet? >>
Yup! And that's great about your son - I bet he felt terrific! Programming problems are like gaming puzzles - you know where you are, where you want to go, and what tools you have to use (the programming language); you just have to figure out how to get there. Figuring out how to make the language do what you want is really exciting!
<< Anyway, just wanted to suggest to you that you get Visual Basic for Dummies and do some searching for tutorials on the net. Then your son can experience programming as well. :) >>
Thanks!
A couple summers ago he went to a one-week summer "camp" by Real Programming 4 Kids where they start with Visual Basic (more advanced courses move through Java and C++). They played around with / built a VB version of Frogger. He ended up being the only kid that week (they have 4 max per course); when I realized that I spoke with the teacher/leader and told him not to worry about following the "course outline", to feel free to follow my son's lead - my money after all! So the guy let him bring in his own sprites / files of fave Golden Sun characters and stick them in for the frogs etc. Joseph had fun with that! In fact, he mentioned the course this morning in his ramblings.
They gave him his code at the end of the week so we could pull that out, grab VB for Dummies / online tutorials and he can play around some more. I'll keep that in my back pocket for later when RPG Maker maybe loses some of it's lustre. ;)
Pam L
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<< My 16 year old uses Visual Basic (which can be learned on the Internet) to write simple gaming programs. He looked up bulletin boards for visual basic and has a place he can interact with other programmers to get questions answered and bugs ironed out. One of his greatest achievements last year was when he spent weeks thinking about a problem presented on the forum. One day, he woke up and realized he had come to a solution. So he wrote up how to get past whatever the obstacle was and got lots of positive feedback from these mostly twenty-something year old guys! He was elated. Don't you love the Internet? >>
Yup! And that's great about your son - I bet he felt terrific! Programming problems are like gaming puzzles - you know where you are, where you want to go, and what tools you have to use (the programming language); you just have to figure out how to get there. Figuring out how to make the language do what you want is really exciting!
<< Anyway, just wanted to suggest to you that you get Visual Basic for Dummies and do some searching for tutorials on the net. Then your son can experience programming as well. :) >>
Thanks!
A couple summers ago he went to a one-week summer "camp" by Real Programming 4 Kids where they start with Visual Basic (more advanced courses move through Java and C++). They played around with / built a VB version of Frogger. He ended up being the only kid that week (they have 4 max per course); when I realized that I spoke with the teacher/leader and told him not to worry about following the "course outline", to feel free to follow my son's lead - my money after all! So the guy let him bring in his own sprites / files of fave Golden Sun characters and stick them in for the frogs etc. Joseph had fun with that! In fact, he mentioned the course this morning in his ramblings.
They gave him his code at the end of the week so we could pull that out, grab VB for Dummies / online tutorials and he can play around some more. I'll keep that in my back pocket for later when RPG Maker maybe loses some of it's lustre. ;)
Pam L
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lenhart
>One really cool thing he found were AR codes for Wind Waker that opened upthe test rooms to play around in. >The floor and walls are all measured
out, we figured so that they can check size relationships, certain enemies
>were placed around for testing out battle code etc. He had great fun withthat for a few days.
Where did he find this?????
Kelly
24hrmom
<< Kelly Lenhart wrote: Where did he find this????? >>
LOL! They are action replay codes he found ... I'll ask him when he wakes up and send the link.
Pam L
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
LOL! They are action replay codes he found ... I'll ask him when he wakes up and send the link.
Pam L
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
24hrmom
<< One really cool thing he found were AR codes for Wind Waker that opened up
the test rooms to play around in. >The floor and walls are all measured
out, we figured so that they can check size relationships, certain enemies
were placed around for testing out battle code etc. He had great fun with
that for a few days. >>
<< Where did he find this????? >>
He woke up. ;)
Here's the link to the Legend of Zelda - Wind Waker action replay codes. You need to have Action Replay for gamecube (it comes with a disk and it's own "memory" card), and enter the master code at the top to activate it. The test room codes are near the bottom of the page.
http://us.codejunkies.com/codes_show.asp?c=US&cr=USD&cs=$&r=0&l=1&g=7340272&p=7
If the link above doesn't work, just go to codejunkies.com and search for wind waker ... that should bring it up. Tons of codes to play around with.
And another use for codes ... this morning Michael (he's 6) was playing this. Last night he tried a few times to bomb this wall he needed to get through while his boat was caught in a whirlpool. He can only carry 30 bombs and got discouraged after a few tries (he either ran out of bombs and had to go buy more or eventually got sucked into the whirlpool). This morning he came down and said he had a great idea! He started up the game and activated the infinite bombs code. He was through the wall in a couple of minutes! :)
I really love all the different kinds of learning that happen when using game codes. Michael used the code to compensate for his lack of experience aiming his cannon, plus to overcome his lack of confidence when faced with two variables - the aiming the bombs at the wall and the whirlpool spinning him around. If he found lots of things frustrating in the game he would realize it was beyond his skill and give up pretty soon, even with codes. But using them to get through a few tough spots shows some cool problem-solving!
I'll stop now. :) I could go on and on about all the learning that happens when playing video/computer games, even when they're being played "wrong".
Pam L
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the test rooms to play around in. >The floor and walls are all measured
out, we figured so that they can check size relationships, certain enemies
were placed around for testing out battle code etc. He had great fun with
that for a few days. >>
<< Where did he find this????? >>
He woke up. ;)
Here's the link to the Legend of Zelda - Wind Waker action replay codes. You need to have Action Replay for gamecube (it comes with a disk and it's own "memory" card), and enter the master code at the top to activate it. The test room codes are near the bottom of the page.
http://us.codejunkies.com/codes_show.asp?c=US&cr=USD&cs=$&r=0&l=1&g=7340272&p=7
If the link above doesn't work, just go to codejunkies.com and search for wind waker ... that should bring it up. Tons of codes to play around with.
And another use for codes ... this morning Michael (he's 6) was playing this. Last night he tried a few times to bomb this wall he needed to get through while his boat was caught in a whirlpool. He can only carry 30 bombs and got discouraged after a few tries (he either ran out of bombs and had to go buy more or eventually got sucked into the whirlpool). This morning he came down and said he had a great idea! He started up the game and activated the infinite bombs code. He was through the wall in a couple of minutes! :)
I really love all the different kinds of learning that happen when using game codes. Michael used the code to compensate for his lack of experience aiming his cannon, plus to overcome his lack of confidence when faced with two variables - the aiming the bombs at the wall and the whirlpool spinning him around. If he found lots of things frustrating in the game he would realize it was beyond his skill and give up pretty soon, even with codes. But using them to get through a few tough spots shows some cool problem-solving!
I'll stop now. :) I could go on and on about all the learning that happens when playing video/computer games, even when they're being played "wrong".
Pam L
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
--- In [email protected], "24hrmom"
<24hrmom@s...> wrote:
**Here's the link to the Legend of Zelda - Wind Waker action replay
codes.**
Thanks for this Pam!
My 11 yr old sounds just like Joseph. When he gets a new game, he's
the same. Searches through all the different websites, prints out
all the faqs, reads through the instructions manual-- and I've
woken up in the morning and found him with a huge grin on his face,
resulting from him conquering the game. :)
He is now anxious to try these codes on Wind Waker, but we have to
get the Action Replay thing first.
He and his sister also get into doing funny, 'wrong' things with the
games. He wanted me to share a tidbit. On Zoo Tycoon, which they
(and I) have been having a ball with lately, the T-Rex won't eat the
scientist who takes care of him. But he will eat a maintenence
worker or angry guest! <g> But only if he's hungry! <G> It was
so funny, he kept wondering why nobody was at the T-Rex exhibit, I
said, "maybe its because he keeps breaking out and he's eaten a few
people!" His reply, "naw, Mom, the game isn't that sophisticated."
Also the Sims have been quite the thing here too! When they first
got it they didn't understand why these puddles kept appearing on
the floors?? Ahhhhh, you have to get them a toilet! <g> They
were laughing so hard that they were crying!
Anyway, like Pam said, I could also go on and on about how much
the kids have learned from these games and from cheats and from
doing things 'wrong'!
Kelli~
<24hrmom@s...> wrote:
**Here's the link to the Legend of Zelda - Wind Waker action replay
codes.**
Thanks for this Pam!
My 11 yr old sounds just like Joseph. When he gets a new game, he's
the same. Searches through all the different websites, prints out
all the faqs, reads through the instructions manual-- and I've
woken up in the morning and found him with a huge grin on his face,
resulting from him conquering the game. :)
He is now anxious to try these codes on Wind Waker, but we have to
get the Action Replay thing first.
He and his sister also get into doing funny, 'wrong' things with the
games. He wanted me to share a tidbit. On Zoo Tycoon, which they
(and I) have been having a ball with lately, the T-Rex won't eat the
scientist who takes care of him. But he will eat a maintenence
worker or angry guest! <g> But only if he's hungry! <G> It was
so funny, he kept wondering why nobody was at the T-Rex exhibit, I
said, "maybe its because he keeps breaking out and he's eaten a few
people!" His reply, "naw, Mom, the game isn't that sophisticated."
Also the Sims have been quite the thing here too! When they first
got it they didn't understand why these puddles kept appearing on
the floors?? Ahhhhh, you have to get them a toilet! <g> They
were laughing so hard that they were crying!
Anyway, like Pam said, I could also go on and on about how much
the kids have learned from these games and from cheats and from
doing things 'wrong'!
Kelli~
Diane
Ah, c'mon, say it! They were laughing so hard you figured *you'd* have
puddles!
:-) Diane
puddles!
:-) Diane
>Also the Sims have been quite the thing here too! When they first
>got it they didn't understand why these puddles kept appearing on
>the floors?? Ahhhhh, you have to get them a toilet! <g> They
>were laughing so hard that they were crying!
>