The little problems with toddlers
Brian and Kathy Stamp
So what do you do when your toddler is coloring on the furniture or something along those lines? Innocent stuff, that they are doing just because they don't know that it's not polite to color on your furniture.
Obviously we offer paper and such. I'm just wondering how you handle things when you turn your back for a second to go to the bathroom. Is it really just about being there 100% of the time? Would you say "NO" or just say "we color on paper" matter of factly?
Trying to do it differently with my last little girl here. My others would have just been told "NO!!"
Kathy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Obviously we offer paper and such. I'm just wondering how you handle things when you turn your back for a second to go to the bathroom. Is it really just about being there 100% of the time? Would you say "NO" or just say "we color on paper" matter of factly?
Trying to do it differently with my last little girl here. My others would have just been told "NO!!"
Kathy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/22/2004 3:17:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bstamp@... writes:
Trying to do it differently with my last little girl here. My others would
have just been told "NO!!" <<<<<
Mine were told no. Because in my house it's not OK to just draw on walls. I
keep so much paper, in many different forms, around to draw on that there
should be no reason to actively search out wall-space. The only two times either
boy drew on the walls, he had a friend over that talked him into it. They each
did it only once.
That said, their rooms are made up of murals! <g> Cameron has drawn wonderful
murals of his favorite bands and has poetry in spots. Duncan has the
Batcave-soon-to-be-Simpson's room. All painted.
So I have a double standard! <g> Sorry, I can't get past that one!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bstamp@... writes:
Trying to do it differently with my last little girl here. My others would
have just been told "NO!!" <<<<<
Mine were told no. Because in my house it's not OK to just draw on walls. I
keep so much paper, in many different forms, around to draw on that there
should be no reason to actively search out wall-space. The only two times either
boy drew on the walls, he had a friend over that talked him into it. They each
did it only once.
That said, their rooms are made up of murals! <g> Cameron has drawn wonderful
murals of his favorite bands and has poetry in spots. Duncan has the
Batcave-soon-to-be-Simpson's room. All painted.
So I have a double standard! <g> Sorry, I can't get past that one!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jon and Rue Kream
>>Would you say "NO" or just say "we color on paper" matter of factly?**Neither :0). We color on lots of things at our house, and I try not
to make myself the arbiter of what 'we' do anyway. I said something
more like, "Wow, the couch has a really slippery surface for drawing on,
huh? I'd rather you didn't draw there - how about if we try to find
something else that's slippery to draw on instead?".
I think part of the appeal of drawing on the wall is that it's got a
whole different feel than paper does - and it's so big. When my kids
were interested in that we found ways for them to draw on the wall -
chalkboard paint was a favorite, or hanging a thin piece of paper so
they could still feel the wall texture underneath, or picking a space
for them to decorate. We got some really huge paper for them. When
Rowan decided the couch was her favorite thing to draw on I gave her
lots of different textured fabrics she could use.
Mostly I just tried to keep in mind that their explorations were more
valuable than our furniture. The Mr. Clean Eraser does a great job
removing things from walls and fridges and some furniture, btw :0).
~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J. Stauffer
<<<< Is it really just about being there 100% of the time? Would you say
"NO" or just say "we color on paper" matter of factly?>>>>
As the mom of a 4yo muralist <grin>, this is how we handle it. We make sure
that Shelly has a tremendous amount of art supplies, different kinds of
paper, paints, colors, pencils, note pads, etc.. We make sure they are in a
place where she can reach them when she wants to.
When Michelle would color on the wall, I would tell her "I love your colors
but let's put them on the paper so we can show Granny better." Then when
she did it again. I would say "I do not want you to color on the walls.
You can color on any paper, etc. But not the walls." Then she colored on
her walls in her room....and I said "cool." After all, it is her wall.
I had done everything I know to do, provide "appropriate" materials, talked
to her about why paper is better, told her what I wanted and why, provided a
safe place for her to paint on a wall......Michelle has painted on almost
every wall in the house. She stopped about the time she turned 4.
She had colored on the wall and I came in and said "Shelly" in a somewhat
exasperated tone. She almost jumped and said "I'm sorry." It was like I
could see the empathy light come on. She had reached on age where she could
take my point of view....and she stopped coloring on walls.
The point being that I personally don't think all the
discipline/punishments/rewards "fix" a problem behavior. I think eventually
kids get mature enough to see where their behavior is impacting others.
Julie S.---who plans to paint her walls this summer
"NO" or just say "we color on paper" matter of factly?>>>>
As the mom of a 4yo muralist <grin>, this is how we handle it. We make sure
that Shelly has a tremendous amount of art supplies, different kinds of
paper, paints, colors, pencils, note pads, etc.. We make sure they are in a
place where she can reach them when she wants to.
When Michelle would color on the wall, I would tell her "I love your colors
but let's put them on the paper so we can show Granny better." Then when
she did it again. I would say "I do not want you to color on the walls.
You can color on any paper, etc. But not the walls." Then she colored on
her walls in her room....and I said "cool." After all, it is her wall.
I had done everything I know to do, provide "appropriate" materials, talked
to her about why paper is better, told her what I wanted and why, provided a
safe place for her to paint on a wall......Michelle has painted on almost
every wall in the house. She stopped about the time she turned 4.
She had colored on the wall and I came in and said "Shelly" in a somewhat
exasperated tone. She almost jumped and said "I'm sorry." It was like I
could see the empathy light come on. She had reached on age where she could
take my point of view....and she stopped coloring on walls.
The point being that I personally don't think all the
discipline/punishments/rewards "fix" a problem behavior. I think eventually
kids get mature enough to see where their behavior is impacting others.
Julie S.---who plans to paint her walls this summer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian and Kathy Stamp" <bstamp@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 2:10 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] The little problems with toddlers
> So what do you do when your toddler is coloring on the furniture or
something along those lines? Innocent stuff, that they are doing just
because they don't know that it's not polite to color on your furniture.
>
> Obviously we offer paper and such. I'm just wondering how you handle
things when you turn your back for a second to go to the bathroom. Is it
really just about being there 100% of the time? Would you say "NO" or just
say "we color on paper" matter of factly?
>
> Trying to do it differently with my last little girl here. My others would
have just been told "NO!!"
>
>
> Kathy
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Brian and Kathy Stamp
"I keep so much paper, in many different forms, around to draw on that there should be no reason to actively search out wall-space."
We are talking about an 18 month old.lol. So yes we too have lots of paper. This isn't about searching out wall-space. It's about learning what's considered acceptable. I'm just trying to understand how others do it without always resorting to the "NO" word.:-)
Kathy
We are talking about an 18 month old.lol. So yes we too have lots of paper. This isn't about searching out wall-space. It's about learning what's considered acceptable. I'm just trying to understand how others do it without always resorting to the "NO" word.:-)
Kathy
----- Original Message -----
From: kbcdlovejo@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] The little problems with toddlers
In a message dated 3/22/2004 3:17:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bstamp@... writes:
Trying to do it differently with my last little girl here. My others would
have just been told "NO!!" <<<<<
Mine were told no. Because in my house it's not OK to just draw on walls. I
keep so much paper, in many different forms, around to draw on that there
should be no reason to actively search out wall-space. The only two times either
boy drew on the walls, he had a friend over that talked him into it. They each
did it only once.
That said, their rooms are made up of murals! <g> Cameron has drawn wonderful
murals of his favorite bands and has poetry in spots. Duncan has the
Batcave-soon-to-be-Simpson's room. All painted.
So I have a double standard! <g> Sorry, I can't get past that one!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
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In a message dated 3/22/2004 5:09:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bstamp@... writes:
I'm just trying to understand how others do it without always resorting to
the "NO" word.:-)<<<<<
I say it so little that the boys know that I'm serious when it IS said. When
I scream it, it's probably a life or death situation. A spoken "no" means stop
now----that's inappropriate.
For an 18 month old, though, I'd say put all writing implments up and keep an
eye on him! I thought you were talking about an older toddler----2.5-3 years
old.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bstamp@... writes:
I'm just trying to understand how others do it without always resorting to
the "NO" word.:-)<<<<<
I say it so little that the boys know that I'm serious when it IS said. When
I scream it, it's probably a life or death situation. A spoken "no" means stop
now----that's inappropriate.
For an 18 month old, though, I'd say put all writing implments up and keep an
eye on him! I thought you were talking about an older toddler----2.5-3 years
old.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marjorie Kirk
For an 18 month old, though, I'd say put all writing implments up and keep
an eye on him! I thought you were talking about an older toddler----2.5-3
years old.
~Kelly
I agree! When my kids were very little I kept the markers and crayons on a
shelf up high and only got them out when I was available to CLOSELY
supervise. I wanted to avoid using "NO" almost as much as I wanted to avoid
marker and crayon all over.
Marjorie
an eye on him! I thought you were talking about an older toddler----2.5-3
years old.
~Kelly
I agree! When my kids were very little I kept the markers and crayons on a
shelf up high and only got them out when I was available to CLOSELY
supervise. I wanted to avoid using "NO" almost as much as I wanted to avoid
marker and crayon all over.
Marjorie
Brian and Kathy Stamp
I do try to keep them up, but the other kids constantly bring them down:-) I'll have to be more diligent I guess. This was just an example though. I guess I was just wondering how you handle these types of situations that are about a toddler learning and exploring that sometimes result in a bit of damage.
Thanks
Kathy
Thanks
Kathy
----- Original Message -----
From: Marjorie Kirk
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 6:35 PM
Subject: RE: [UnschoolingDiscussion] The little problems with toddlers
For an 18 month old, though, I'd say put all writing implments up and keep
an eye on him! I thought you were talking about an older toddler----2.5-3
years old.
~Kelly
I agree! When my kids were very little I kept the markers and crayons on a
shelf up high and only got them out when I was available to CLOSELY
supervise. I wanted to avoid using "NO" almost as much as I wanted to avoid
marker and crayon all over.
Marjorie
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In a message dated 3/22/04 1:17:34 PM, bstamp@... writes:
<< Would you say "NO" or just say "we color on paper" matter of factly?
hang around and watch me try to take it off. If it came off, he knew how much
work it was. If it didn't come off, he had to hear me say "Oh no, it doesn't
come off. And I don't know if we can paint over it either. Don't write on
the wall anymore, okay?"
We had a to-be-plastered wall on an outbuilding on the patio that they could
paint on, on the outside. That was fun. I'd mix up pots of tempera and give
them fat brushes and let them go to it.
Sandra
<< Would you say "NO" or just say "we color on paper" matter of factly?
>>I used to get the kid to help me take the crayon or marker off, or at least
hang around and watch me try to take it off. If it came off, he knew how much
work it was. If it didn't come off, he had to hear me say "Oh no, it doesn't
come off. And I don't know if we can paint over it either. Don't write on
the wall anymore, okay?"
We had a to-be-plastered wall on an outbuilding on the patio that they could
paint on, on the outside. That was fun. I'd mix up pots of tempera and give
them fat brushes and let them go to it.
Sandra
pam sorooshian
On Mar 22, 2004, at 2:07 PM, Brian and Kathy Stamp wrote:
what you do or don't do (or say) about it. If it is an ongoing thing -
then, well - don't go into the bathroom leaving the 18 month old with
access to crayons? It wouldn't be nice of you to be negative with an 18
month old for writing on walls if you left the child alone with crayons
and walls. Now you know and nobody has to tell you "NO!" either -
because you can figure out what to do about it for yourself <G>.
My kids NEVER drew on walls. No never. Really. Don't believe me? Well!!
Okay, both my older two wrote their names on their drawings on the
bathroom wall, next to the toilet - guess they had a crayon in their
little hand when they were sitting there, getting bored. Plus one of
them once CARVED her name into the wooden front of some brand-new
drawers.
Telling them nicely that you don't like it seems honest and okay to me.
But not punishing for it - not even verbally - especially not an 18
month old baby.
-pam
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> We are talking about an 18 month old.lol. So yes we too have lots ofIf something is a once or twice thing, then it isn't going to matter
> paper. This isn't about searching out wall-space. It's about learning
> what's considered acceptable. I'm just trying to understand how others
> do it without always resorting to the "NO" word.:-)
what you do or don't do (or say) about it. If it is an ongoing thing -
then, well - don't go into the bathroom leaving the 18 month old with
access to crayons? It wouldn't be nice of you to be negative with an 18
month old for writing on walls if you left the child alone with crayons
and walls. Now you know and nobody has to tell you "NO!" either -
because you can figure out what to do about it for yourself <G>.
My kids NEVER drew on walls. No never. Really. Don't believe me? Well!!
Okay, both my older two wrote their names on their drawings on the
bathroom wall, next to the toilet - guess they had a crayon in their
little hand when they were sitting there, getting bored. Plus one of
them once CARVED her name into the wooden front of some brand-new
drawers.
Telling them nicely that you don't like it seems honest and okay to me.
But not punishing for it - not even verbally - especially not an 18
month old baby.
-pam
>National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
pam sorooshian
On Mar 22, 2004, at 3:46 PM, Brian and Kathy Stamp wrote:
expected something like this to happen and I was right. I must be
psychic." <BEG>
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> I guess I was just wondering how you handle these types of situationsExpect it and when it happens grin, wryly, and say to yourself, "Oh, I
> that are about a toddler learning and exploring that sometimes result
> in a bit of damage.
expected something like this to happen and I was right. I must be
psychic." <BEG>
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
[email protected]
About "the NO word":
In a message dated 3/22/04 3:24:47 PM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:
<< I say it so little that the boys know that I'm serious when it IS said.
When
I scream it, it's probably a life or death situation. A spoken "no" means
stop
now----that's inappropriate.
For an 18 month old, though, I'd say put all writing implments up and keep an
eye on him! I thought you were talking about an older toddler----2.5-3 years
old. >>
My kid-negative word was "uh oh..." and then I would help them undo the
problem. I wanted to save "no" for stepping in front of a car, or for answering
real yes/no questions. "Do you know where my shoes are?" "No, but I'll help you
look."
Sandra
In a message dated 3/22/04 3:24:47 PM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:
<< I say it so little that the boys know that I'm serious when it IS said.
When
I scream it, it's probably a life or death situation. A spoken "no" means
stop
now----that's inappropriate.
For an 18 month old, though, I'd say put all writing implments up and keep an
eye on him! I thought you were talking about an older toddler----2.5-3 years
old. >>
My kid-negative word was "uh oh..." and then I would help them undo the
problem. I wanted to save "no" for stepping in front of a car, or for answering
real yes/no questions. "Do you know where my shoes are?" "No, but I'll help you
look."
Sandra
Geneviève Labonté
Kathy, I sympathise here :-)
One of my babies is a real wall-art artist. I make sure the older ones
have those non-permanent crayola markers. At least, most of it comes
off. Xavier drew a huge wax crayon mural in the big boys room and we,
uh , laughed and took a pic. when we saw it. He was very proud of it,
went back the next day to finish it (add another color!) and has never
touched it again. All other situations were easy to deal with, fresh
made was just wipe off except in my living room where he went
scribble-crazy with a ball-point pen wow Lets say its kind of
cute for now :-)
Id usually react something like Xavier, mommy doesnt really like it
when you draw on the walls, come draw at the table Ill give you a big
paper. And it usually works. Its a phase, hes almost out of it (at
2 ¼ yo). Redirect to another activity. Dont make something huge out
of it. Frame it. Take a picture of it, and the artist :-)
Genevieve
I do try to keep them up, but the other kids constantly bring them
down:-) I'll have to be more diligent I guess. This was just an example
though. I guess I was just wondering how you handle these types of
situations that are about a toddler learning and exploring that
sometimes result in a bit of damage.
Thanks
Kathy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
One of my babies is a real wall-art artist. I make sure the older ones
have those non-permanent crayola markers. At least, most of it comes
off. Xavier drew a huge wax crayon mural in the big boys room and we,
uh , laughed and took a pic. when we saw it. He was very proud of it,
went back the next day to finish it (add another color!) and has never
touched it again. All other situations were easy to deal with, fresh
made was just wipe off except in my living room where he went
scribble-crazy with a ball-point pen wow Lets say its kind of
cute for now :-)
Id usually react something like Xavier, mommy doesnt really like it
when you draw on the walls, come draw at the table Ill give you a big
paper. And it usually works. Its a phase, hes almost out of it (at
2 ¼ yo). Redirect to another activity. Dont make something huge out
of it. Frame it. Take a picture of it, and the artist :-)
Genevieve
I do try to keep them up, but the other kids constantly bring them
down:-) I'll have to be more diligent I guess. This was just an example
though. I guess I was just wondering how you handle these types of
situations that are about a toddler learning and exploring that
sometimes result in a bit of damage.
Thanks
Kathy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J. Stauffer
<<<I'm just trying to understand how others do it without always resorting
to the "NO" word.:-)>>>
I think "no" has gotten a bad rap. It is a perfectly wonderful word when it
isn't overused. It lets others know where our boundaries are. If we never
use the word "no", we can use so many other words that kids end up not
knowing where that line is.
Example: My 7yo dd likes to play with her friend in the friend's family car
at park day. The dad never said a word about it. Then one day, the friend
kept cutting her eyes at the dad and making like end runs around him to get
to the car....taking my dd in tow. It was obvious to me the Dad didn't want
them in the car. I asked and he stated that papers had come up missing and
it was a problem.
I told dd that Dad didn't want her playing in the car but friend kept trying
to talk her into it, saying it was 'OK'. So I asked dd to ask Dad if he
wanted her playing in the car.....he hemhawed around and finally said "It
wouldn't be my preference." I looked at Marsie and said "That means 'no'".
I think the problem comes when NO is the automatic answer, not because there
is a real reason but because it is a knee-jerk reaction. My right to do as
I please stops at the point it infringes on your rights. How will I know
where that point is unless you tell me, particularly if I am 18 months old?
Or it is a problem when people think that they have said "no" and the issue
has come up again so they must now punish the child to make them learn.
Of course, try to find a solution that you are both happy with. Of course,
try to help your daughter come up with other options. But "no" is an
acceptable word.
Julie S.
to the "NO" word.:-)>>>
I think "no" has gotten a bad rap. It is a perfectly wonderful word when it
isn't overused. It lets others know where our boundaries are. If we never
use the word "no", we can use so many other words that kids end up not
knowing where that line is.
Example: My 7yo dd likes to play with her friend in the friend's family car
at park day. The dad never said a word about it. Then one day, the friend
kept cutting her eyes at the dad and making like end runs around him to get
to the car....taking my dd in tow. It was obvious to me the Dad didn't want
them in the car. I asked and he stated that papers had come up missing and
it was a problem.
I told dd that Dad didn't want her playing in the car but friend kept trying
to talk her into it, saying it was 'OK'. So I asked dd to ask Dad if he
wanted her playing in the car.....he hemhawed around and finally said "It
wouldn't be my preference." I looked at Marsie and said "That means 'no'".
I think the problem comes when NO is the automatic answer, not because there
is a real reason but because it is a knee-jerk reaction. My right to do as
I please stops at the point it infringes on your rights. How will I know
where that point is unless you tell me, particularly if I am 18 months old?
Or it is a problem when people think that they have said "no" and the issue
has come up again so they must now punish the child to make them learn.
Of course, try to find a solution that you are both happy with. Of course,
try to help your daughter come up with other options. But "no" is an
acceptable word.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian and Kathy Stamp" <bstamp@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] The little problems with toddlers
> "I keep so much paper, in many different forms, around to draw on that
there should be no reason to actively search out wall-space."
>
> We are talking about an 18 month old.lol. So yes we too have lots of
paper. This isn't about searching out wall-space. It's about learning what's
considered acceptable. I'm just trying to understand how others do it
without always resorting to the "NO" word.:-)
>
> Kathy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: kbcdlovejo@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 3:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] The little problems with toddlers
>
>
> In a message dated 3/22/2004 3:17:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> bstamp@... writes:
> Trying to do it differently with my last little girl here. My others
would
> have just been told "NO!!" <<<<<
>
> Mine were told no. Because in my house it's not OK to just draw on
walls. I
> keep so much paper, in many different forms, around to draw on that
there
> should be no reason to actively search out wall-space. The only two
times either
> boy drew on the walls, he had a friend over that talked him into it.
They each
> did it only once.
>
> That said, their rooms are made up of murals! <g> Cameron has drawn
wonderful
> murals of his favorite bands and has poetry in spots. Duncan has the
> Batcave-soon-to-be-Simpson's room. All painted.
>
> So I have a double standard! <g> Sorry, I can't get past that one!
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
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> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
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> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
J. Stauffer
<<<I guess I was just wondering how you handle these types of situations
that are about a toddler learning and exploring that sometimes result in a
bit of damage.>>>
I think you just try the best you can to not get over stressed about it and
know that the best time to get nice furniture is after the toddler stage.
Julie S.---who hopes for nice furniture in a couple of years
that are about a toddler learning and exploring that sometimes result in a
bit of damage.>>>
I think you just try the best you can to not get over stressed about it and
know that the best time to get nice furniture is after the toddler stage.
Julie S.---who hopes for nice furniture in a couple of years
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian and Kathy Stamp" <bstamp@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] The little problems with toddlers
> I do try to keep them up, but the other kids constantly bring them down:-)
I'll have to be more diligent I guess. This was just an example though. I
guess I was just wondering how you handle these types of situations that are
about a toddler learning and exploring that sometimes result in a bit of
damage.
>
> Thanks
> Kathy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marjorie Kirk
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 6:35 PM
> Subject: RE: [UnschoolingDiscussion] The little problems with toddlers
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For an 18 month old, though, I'd say put all writing implments up and
keep
> an eye on him! I thought you were talking about an older
toddler----2.5-3
> years old.
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
> I agree! When my kids were very little I kept the markers and crayons
on a
> shelf up high and only got them out when I was available to CLOSELY
> supervise. I wanted to avoid using "NO" almost as much as I wanted to
avoid
> marker and crayon all over.
>
> Marjorie
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>
Terri Reiser
----- Original Message -----
From: Geneviève Labonté
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 7:55 PM
Subject: RE: [UnschoolingDiscussion] The little problems with toddlers
I used to put large paper up on the wall, from rolls. Or large sides from fridge boxes...
as a former teacher, I learned that if a kid wanted to spit, well he could go outside and spit until he had enough of it. Done with the right attitude, everyone wins. Of course, the spitting (or drawing or whatever) had to be in an ok place...
Terri
a.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dawn Adams
Genevieve writes:
One of my babies is a real wall-art artist. I make sure the older ones
have those non-permanent crayola markers. At least, most of it comes
off. Xavier drew a huge wax crayon mural in the big boys room and we,
uh., laughed and took a pic. when we saw it. He was very proud of it,
went back the next day to finish it (add another color!) and has never
touched it again. All other situations were easy to deal with, fresh
made was just wipe off except in my living room where he went
scribble-crazy with a ball-point pen. wow. Let's say it's kind of
cute. for now :-)
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
One of my babies is a real wall-art artist. I make sure the older ones
have those non-permanent crayola markers. At least, most of it comes
off. Xavier drew a huge wax crayon mural in the big boys room and we,
uh., laughed and took a pic. when we saw it. He was very proud of it,
went back the next day to finish it (add another color!) and has never
touched it again. All other situations were easy to deal with, fresh
made was just wipe off except in my living room where he went
scribble-crazy with a ball-point pen. wow. Let's say it's kind of
cute. for now :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I just got a free sample of a the new Mr. Clean Magic Eraser...seems to work really well and completely eliminated lots of crayons scribbles without hurting the paint. It doesn't last to long though and I'm not sure about price so I'm going to buy a few JUST for murals. Rubbing alchohol takes off pen...it's can also take off paint if you rub at it too long but I've never reached that point.
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Danielle Conger
Kathy wrote:>
My guy was about 3 when he went on this binge--the walls, the carpet, the
cabinets, the computer monitor and keyboard. (He's almost 4 now, and his
sisters are 6 and 5.) Obviously, he was significantly older and more
developmentally capable of understanding boundaries at that point than a 18
mo old. Sam's never been a distractable kind of child, but he will sometimes
deal with substitutions--you can't do it here, but you can do it over there
kind of thing. He stayed with me while I cleaned up and helped when he could
(this was when that was still interesting *g*) and we talked about how the
crayon makes it difficult to play on the computer, that mommy doesn't like
crayon on the walls, furniture or carpet but loves to tape pictures to the
wall where ever they would like (tape is a really big thing around here
right now). After the third or fourth time, I did simply tell the kids that
if I wasn't there, the art supplies didn't come down. But, I made sure to
say "yes" when ever they asked for them, so they weren't cut off from doing
art. That didn't last long, and when we "tried again" Sam was done with
drawing on things.
I'm a big fan of reducing the number of no's and the impact of accidents as
much as possible: making sure that *everything* is washable at this age.
Slipcovers, satin instead of flat wall paint (in the playroom I used
semi-gloss!), water-solulable art supplies. This makes it much easier not to
get worked up over accidents and experiments. There are boundaries and kids
work to figure out what they are, but there's a big difference between
finding out a boundary in a punitive and shaming kind of way versus a gentle
but firm way.
I agree with Julie that "no" is a part of living with other people. When I
say no, it's a "no, thank you" and an explanation why: "No thank you jumping
on my bed. I'm tired and trying to relax. If you want to jump, please get
down on the floor". If it's something big like hitting his sisters, me or
the dog it's a "no, sir!" firm but not yelled, furrowed brows to let him
know that I'm serious about not allowing the action to continue, and the
next step is removing him from the situation--picking him up and walking
with him to his room, or to sit on the stairs, someplace where we're out of
view from the others and can focus on each other.
*sigh* Yes, all my examples of "no" and boundaries are about my guy, not my
girls--he's my challenge. The key as I see it is always being willing to
examine boundaries from several perspectives to see if they can be
renegotiated and as much as possible remaining gentle, firm and consistent
when the boundaries really are inflexible, like hitting, ruining carpet and
furniture. Often there are ways around even the firm boundaries as people
have been pointing out: can't draw on furniture, but can paint a child's
table with chalkboard paint; can't draw on walls, but can draw on
paper-covered walls or other designated spaces; can't carve furniture, but
can carve soap or erasers; can't hit people or animals, but can hit pillows;
can't spit at people, but can spit outside or in the shower. The real
challenge with my guy has been that he often wants nothing to do with these
substitutions--it's the original action or a rage. That gets really tricky.
The key for me is to try to prevent situations whenever possible by being
there and immediately available, by trying to read his cues (because the
circumstances are unpredictable) before the situation escalates, and by
reducing the number of no's to a bare minimum by really recognizing the
knee-jerk, in-the-box kind of no's that pop out of some parent's mouths and
*not* doing that myself.
--Danielle
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
> > I do try to keep them up, but the other kids constantly bring themdown:-)
> I'll have to be more diligent I guess. This was just an example though. Iare
> guess I was just wondering how you handle these types of situations that
> about a toddler learning and exploring that sometimes result in a bit of===========================================
> damage.
My guy was about 3 when he went on this binge--the walls, the carpet, the
cabinets, the computer monitor and keyboard. (He's almost 4 now, and his
sisters are 6 and 5.) Obviously, he was significantly older and more
developmentally capable of understanding boundaries at that point than a 18
mo old. Sam's never been a distractable kind of child, but he will sometimes
deal with substitutions--you can't do it here, but you can do it over there
kind of thing. He stayed with me while I cleaned up and helped when he could
(this was when that was still interesting *g*) and we talked about how the
crayon makes it difficult to play on the computer, that mommy doesn't like
crayon on the walls, furniture or carpet but loves to tape pictures to the
wall where ever they would like (tape is a really big thing around here
right now). After the third or fourth time, I did simply tell the kids that
if I wasn't there, the art supplies didn't come down. But, I made sure to
say "yes" when ever they asked for them, so they weren't cut off from doing
art. That didn't last long, and when we "tried again" Sam was done with
drawing on things.
I'm a big fan of reducing the number of no's and the impact of accidents as
much as possible: making sure that *everything* is washable at this age.
Slipcovers, satin instead of flat wall paint (in the playroom I used
semi-gloss!), water-solulable art supplies. This makes it much easier not to
get worked up over accidents and experiments. There are boundaries and kids
work to figure out what they are, but there's a big difference between
finding out a boundary in a punitive and shaming kind of way versus a gentle
but firm way.
I agree with Julie that "no" is a part of living with other people. When I
say no, it's a "no, thank you" and an explanation why: "No thank you jumping
on my bed. I'm tired and trying to relax. If you want to jump, please get
down on the floor". If it's something big like hitting his sisters, me or
the dog it's a "no, sir!" firm but not yelled, furrowed brows to let him
know that I'm serious about not allowing the action to continue, and the
next step is removing him from the situation--picking him up and walking
with him to his room, or to sit on the stairs, someplace where we're out of
view from the others and can focus on each other.
*sigh* Yes, all my examples of "no" and boundaries are about my guy, not my
girls--he's my challenge. The key as I see it is always being willing to
examine boundaries from several perspectives to see if they can be
renegotiated and as much as possible remaining gentle, firm and consistent
when the boundaries really are inflexible, like hitting, ruining carpet and
furniture. Often there are ways around even the firm boundaries as people
have been pointing out: can't draw on furniture, but can paint a child's
table with chalkboard paint; can't draw on walls, but can draw on
paper-covered walls or other designated spaces; can't carve furniture, but
can carve soap or erasers; can't hit people or animals, but can hit pillows;
can't spit at people, but can spit outside or in the shower. The real
challenge with my guy has been that he often wants nothing to do with these
substitutions--it's the original action or a rage. That gets really tricky.
The key for me is to try to prevent situations whenever possible by being
there and immediately available, by trying to read his cues (because the
circumstances are unpredictable) before the situation escalates, and by
reducing the number of no's to a bare minimum by really recognizing the
knee-jerk, in-the-box kind of no's that pop out of some parent's mouths and
*not* doing that myself.
--Danielle
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
averyschmidt
> We had a to-be-plastered wall on an outbuilding on the patio thatthey could
> paint on, on the outside. That was fun. I'd mix up pots oftempera and give
> them fat brushes and let them go to it.When my bigger boys were littler (going on 2 and 4) our house was
about to be completely renovated, and the last few weeks before we
moved out to start the work we let them color everywhere. The
living room especially was covered with scribbles and drawings. It
drove my mother and sister crazy- they were convinced that for the
rest of the boys'lives they'd think it was okay to color on walls-
not just their own but everyone else's. :-)
After we moved out and then back in again, with all new walls (which
were no longer okay to draw on), I don't remember having a problem
even once. Mabye because they understood the difference clearly,
mabye because their urge to draw on walls had already been spent.
Probably both.
Patti
TreeGoddess
We have a door to the laundry room in our basement that the kids and I
decorated with paint. They're free to add to it whenever they want and
they love seeing their paintings every time they pass by the door.
-Tracy-
decorated with paint. They're free to add to it whenever they want and
they love seeing their paintings every time they pass by the door.
-Tracy-
On Mar 23, 2004, at 9:29 AM, averyschmidt wrote:
> When my bigger boys were littler (going on 2 and 4) our house was
> about to be completely renovated, and the last few weeks before we
> moved out to start the work we let them color everywhere. The
> living room especially was covered with scribbles and drawings. It
> drove my mother and sister crazy- they were convinced that for the
> rest of the boys'lives they'd think it was okay to color on walls-
> not just their own but everyone else's. :-)
>
> After we moved out and then back in again, with all new walls (which
> were no longer okay to draw on), I don't remember having a problem
> even once. Mabye because they understood the difference clearly,
> mabye because their urge to draw on walls had already been spent.
> Probably both.
Erika Nunn
"But "no" is an acceptable word."
Julie S.
This reminded me of the time when my son was somewhere between 6 months and
a year old. I was in this Kinder Musik class with him. We were all sitting
in a circle and I think he was stuffing some instrument in his mouth. I
said in a VERY jokingly and mellow way, "Nooo Aidan." (I think this was the
first time I had ever even said the word before to my child - it wasn't like
I was running around screaming "no" at him every 3 minutes.) After class
the instructor (who was also my friend) jumped all over me questioning how I
could ever say the word "No" to my poor child who obviously could now be
psychologically damaged for the rest of his life. She was that intense
about it.
I had read many books discussing these issues, what with the "good jobs" and
too many "no's." But after that little episode I realized that these words
are a part of our English language (!), and that it makes little sense to
completely eradicate them from our daily speech. Another friend I have told
me that in her little preschool (she is unschooling now) that occasionally
saying the words "good job" to a child would result in the other mothers
giving her the evil eye. Admittedly, I can't stand people who say "good
job" a million times to their kids over everything, but it's normal for
these words to be spoken. I can't stand the 'thought police.'
Obvious I know, but I just felt like sharing.
Erika :)
_________________________________________________________________
Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and
safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp
Julie S.
This reminded me of the time when my son was somewhere between 6 months and
a year old. I was in this Kinder Musik class with him. We were all sitting
in a circle and I think he was stuffing some instrument in his mouth. I
said in a VERY jokingly and mellow way, "Nooo Aidan." (I think this was the
first time I had ever even said the word before to my child - it wasn't like
I was running around screaming "no" at him every 3 minutes.) After class
the instructor (who was also my friend) jumped all over me questioning how I
could ever say the word "No" to my poor child who obviously could now be
psychologically damaged for the rest of his life. She was that intense
about it.
I had read many books discussing these issues, what with the "good jobs" and
too many "no's." But after that little episode I realized that these words
are a part of our English language (!), and that it makes little sense to
completely eradicate them from our daily speech. Another friend I have told
me that in her little preschool (she is unschooling now) that occasionally
saying the words "good job" to a child would result in the other mothers
giving her the evil eye. Admittedly, I can't stand people who say "good
job" a million times to their kids over everything, but it's normal for
these words to be spoken. I can't stand the 'thought police.'
Obvious I know, but I just felt like sharing.
Erika :)
_________________________________________________________________
Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and
safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp
Shannon Rizzo
I've posted once already (back in January) but never introduced myself. I'm
Shannon, mom to Heather (7-1/2), Isabella (almost 6), Luke (just 3) and Jake
(9 mths). I know a few of you from other lists and have enjoyed reading
your posts for quite a while. After living in Austin, TX, for 10 years, we
are doing a stint in the CA Bay Area. I had my boys at home, wonderful
births, and am tandem nursing them. We do a lot of nature and craft
activities, and Heather is recently interested in astronomy. We are
learning to knit together and that's really addictive. We also love to
learn languages; I speak French and Chinese and a little Italian and
Spanish. We have a homeschool French class that meets at our house weekly -
we cook (truffles and crepes so far), sing, do crafts, and have fun while
immersing ourselves in the language. Other than that, we just have whatever
fun we can think of.
Shannon R.
Shannon, mom to Heather (7-1/2), Isabella (almost 6), Luke (just 3) and Jake
(9 mths). I know a few of you from other lists and have enjoyed reading
your posts for quite a while. After living in Austin, TX, for 10 years, we
are doing a stint in the CA Bay Area. I had my boys at home, wonderful
births, and am tandem nursing them. We do a lot of nature and craft
activities, and Heather is recently interested in astronomy. We are
learning to knit together and that's really addictive. We also love to
learn languages; I speak French and Chinese and a little Italian and
Spanish. We have a homeschool French class that meets at our house weekly -
we cook (truffles and crepes so far), sing, do crafts, and have fun while
immersing ourselves in the language. Other than that, we just have whatever
fun we can think of.
Shannon R.