Real differences (was Re: Unschooling just happens, and we are a Christ...
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/14/04 6:46:10 PM, SandraDodd@... writes:
<< My kids have Christian friends they make allowances for when the're
visiting.
We're not anti-Christian. I'm personally anti anti-child people. I have no
patience or understanding for people who intend to break children's spirits.
Some of those spirits stay broken for life, and it's hard for me to be
hopeful about my whole kids having to go out and deal with broken-spirited
people
who wish their parents had respected them more (but might not realize what
they
wish after they learn not to look back at their childhoods).
of Focus on the Family. It shows a boy pretending to shave, with shaving
creme and a comb. The cover blurb is "Raising Right-Minded Rascals."
Right away, it seemed disrespectful of boys. "Rascals" might be a term of
endearment, but it's not positive. The issue was largely an advertisement for a
series of videos called "Bringing Up Boys." It was pro-leadership and
anti-homosexuality ("Teaching that homosexuality is genetic is one of the biggest
deceptions taught in schools today. Two former homosexuals testify of their
turn from homosexuality and it origins" and one tape is all about the role
parents have in preventing homosexuality.) But that's not what I wanted to bring
to the list, it's just the tone of this issue.
There's a short article, though, called Backing Down Back Talk ("featuring
Dr. James Dobson," who is quoted but didn't write it, and there isn't an author
credit).
I'm going to quote some. Were the question put to this list, the answers
would have been MUCH much different.
======
Kids can say the cutest thins. but not everything coming out of etheir
mouths is sugar and spiec. Sometimes their syllables can sizle.
Check out a scene between a mom and her precocious 7-year-old:
Linda: Tess, get in here and clear your breaflast dishes.
Tess: Just a minute, Mom. I'm watching television.
Linda: No, right now.
Tess: I said, in a minute!
Linda: And I said right now!
Tess: (stomping into kitchen): HUMPH! You're such a pain, mom. Why can't
you let me do what I want?
Linda: Because I'm your mom. It's my job to help you do the right thing.
Tess: That's not a REAL job. Why can't you get a job like vicki's mom?
Linda: Because I'm YOUR mom. I'm supposed to make your life miserable.
Tess: I am miserable. Thanks to you.
On a scale of one to 10, how d you think Linda handled the situation?
(Cheesy game show music.)
BUZZ! Got your answer?
Dr. James Dobson says Linda needs to discourage the disrespectful behavior
now--before it gets worse. He might give her a three.
So they're not recommending it as an ideal conversation, but are they
suggesting the mother could have been more respectful and patient? No. The
reecommendation is this:
"By punishing disrepectful talk now, Linda will help squelch battles in the
teen years before they start. Added chores, a spanking or being grounded from
the television may be a good reminder for Tess to treat her mom better."
-----------end of quotes-------
I used caps to show where they used italics.
There was more, about trying to understand a child's viewpoint and being big
enough to apologize, and helping them find ways to communicate. But there was
NO criticism of a mother saying "get in here and..." or "no, right now." The
mother is assumed right. "But if you feel your actions were correct, you
should explain your reaction and what you expect next time."
Telling children what you expect, with the threat of "added chores, a
spanking or being grounded from the television" is not respectful of children.
Sandra
<< My kids have Christian friends they make allowances for when the're
visiting.
We're not anti-Christian. I'm personally anti anti-child people. I have no
patience or understanding for people who intend to break children's spirits.
Some of those spirits stay broken for life, and it's hard for me to be
hopeful about my whole kids having to go out and deal with broken-spirited
people
who wish their parents had respected them more (but might not realize what
they
wish after they learn not to look back at their childhoods).
>>Yesterday at a thrift store for 49 cents I picked up the November 2002 issue
of Focus on the Family. It shows a boy pretending to shave, with shaving
creme and a comb. The cover blurb is "Raising Right-Minded Rascals."
Right away, it seemed disrespectful of boys. "Rascals" might be a term of
endearment, but it's not positive. The issue was largely an advertisement for a
series of videos called "Bringing Up Boys." It was pro-leadership and
anti-homosexuality ("Teaching that homosexuality is genetic is one of the biggest
deceptions taught in schools today. Two former homosexuals testify of their
turn from homosexuality and it origins" and one tape is all about the role
parents have in preventing homosexuality.) But that's not what I wanted to bring
to the list, it's just the tone of this issue.
There's a short article, though, called Backing Down Back Talk ("featuring
Dr. James Dobson," who is quoted but didn't write it, and there isn't an author
credit).
I'm going to quote some. Were the question put to this list, the answers
would have been MUCH much different.
======
Kids can say the cutest thins. but not everything coming out of etheir
mouths is sugar and spiec. Sometimes their syllables can sizle.
Check out a scene between a mom and her precocious 7-year-old:
Linda: Tess, get in here and clear your breaflast dishes.
Tess: Just a minute, Mom. I'm watching television.
Linda: No, right now.
Tess: I said, in a minute!
Linda: And I said right now!
Tess: (stomping into kitchen): HUMPH! You're such a pain, mom. Why can't
you let me do what I want?
Linda: Because I'm your mom. It's my job to help you do the right thing.
Tess: That's not a REAL job. Why can't you get a job like vicki's mom?
Linda: Because I'm YOUR mom. I'm supposed to make your life miserable.
Tess: I am miserable. Thanks to you.
On a scale of one to 10, how d you think Linda handled the situation?
(Cheesy game show music.)
BUZZ! Got your answer?
Dr. James Dobson says Linda needs to discourage the disrespectful behavior
now--before it gets worse. He might give her a three.
So they're not recommending it as an ideal conversation, but are they
suggesting the mother could have been more respectful and patient? No. The
reecommendation is this:
"By punishing disrepectful talk now, Linda will help squelch battles in the
teen years before they start. Added chores, a spanking or being grounded from
the television may be a good reminder for Tess to treat her mom better."
-----------end of quotes-------
I used caps to show where they used italics.
There was more, about trying to understand a child's viewpoint and being big
enough to apologize, and helping them find ways to communicate. But there was
NO criticism of a mother saying "get in here and..." or "no, right now." The
mother is assumed right. "But if you feel your actions were correct, you
should explain your reaction and what you expect next time."
Telling children what you expect, with the threat of "added chores, a
spanking or being grounded from the television" is not respectful of children.
Sandra
arcarpenter2003
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
never *started* in such a curt, preemptory way.
This is what I'm running from, running toward respect and
saying, "Could you let me know when you have a break so I can ask you
something?"
Last night, late, Fisher (6) lost a battle in his Pokemon GameCube
game. He ended up losing a rare Pokemon because he had forgotten to
save before the battle. He cried off and on for two hours (we ended
up going to bed at 1 a.m.) I knew he was overtired, and just
mentioned to him that he might feel better about it in the morning.
But instead of insisting that he turn it off or go to bed or stop
crying or just shut up and play until he got the Pokemon again, I
waited to see what he wanted to do. Sometimes I played for him while
he was waiting to get that Pokemon again, going through some of the
more repetitive battles. I brought him snacks to keep his energy
up. I rubbed his back and talked to him when he felt like talking --
when he was too upset to talk, I backed off. At one point he was up
in his room, but I asked if he wanted to keep me company in the
kitchen while I cleaned up, and he took me up on it. He showed me a
lot of the game while we did that.
By the time we went to bed, he was smiling and okay again. Still
very disappointed (he never did get that Pokemon back) but I could
tell he felt like I was on his side, and it helped a lot.
When I think "How can I help Fisher get what he wants?" everything
about parenting seems to fall into place. I suppose it's more work,
but it's easier because I know what the work is about and it's work
toward a good relationship.
Focus on the Family isn't going to show me that. Mothers who don't
let their children play with neighborhood kids, ever, aren't going to
show me that. This group has showed me that, and I hope to find
others in real life to walk that path with me, too.
Ramblin' peace,
Amy
>Ugh. Who *begins* a conversation this way? Even I at my worst have
> Check out a scene between a mom and her precocious 7-year-old:
>
> Linda: Tess, get in here and clear your breakfast dishes.
never *started* in such a curt, preemptory way.
This is what I'm running from, running toward respect and
saying, "Could you let me know when you have a break so I can ask you
something?"
Last night, late, Fisher (6) lost a battle in his Pokemon GameCube
game. He ended up losing a rare Pokemon because he had forgotten to
save before the battle. He cried off and on for two hours (we ended
up going to bed at 1 a.m.) I knew he was overtired, and just
mentioned to him that he might feel better about it in the morning.
But instead of insisting that he turn it off or go to bed or stop
crying or just shut up and play until he got the Pokemon again, I
waited to see what he wanted to do. Sometimes I played for him while
he was waiting to get that Pokemon again, going through some of the
more repetitive battles. I brought him snacks to keep his energy
up. I rubbed his back and talked to him when he felt like talking --
when he was too upset to talk, I backed off. At one point he was up
in his room, but I asked if he wanted to keep me company in the
kitchen while I cleaned up, and he took me up on it. He showed me a
lot of the game while we did that.
By the time we went to bed, he was smiling and okay again. Still
very disappointed (he never did get that Pokemon back) but I could
tell he felt like I was on his side, and it helped a lot.
When I think "How can I help Fisher get what he wants?" everything
about parenting seems to fall into place. I suppose it's more work,
but it's easier because I know what the work is about and it's work
toward a good relationship.
Focus on the Family isn't going to show me that. Mothers who don't
let their children play with neighborhood kids, ever, aren't going to
show me that. This group has showed me that, and I hope to find
others in real life to walk that path with me, too.
Ramblin' peace,
Amy
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/15/04 5:44:05 PM, arcarpenter@... writes:
<< > Linda: Tess, get in here and clear your breakfast dishes.
Ugh. Who *begins* a conversation this way? >>
MY MOM!
But she might have added "you little brat" or "before I blister your bottom."
(Not EVERY time, just sometimes.)
Sandra
<< > Linda: Tess, get in here and clear your breakfast dishes.
Ugh. Who *begins* a conversation this way? >>
MY MOM!
But she might have added "you little brat" or "before I blister your bottom."
(Not EVERY time, just sometimes.)
Sandra