Knowing your kids' friends
Julie Bogart
How important is it to you that you know your children's (in our case, teens) friends?
We've been living out the values we've learned on this loop over the last year, trusting our
kids to develop friendships, driving them places when they need it and so on. Our kids
have been great and I have no complaints about how they've handled themselves. It was a
huge adjustment for us, but we've made it. And I'm happy with how things have gone.
As usual, new situations arise that force me to rethink my attitudes again.
Right now I'm faced with a developing friendship between our 14 yog and an 18 yob. So
far, they aren't romantically involved. They go to the mall or afternoon movies together
and spend a lot of time on IM. They've gone to a concert too with my older son and
another boy so there were four of them together.
I've met the boy but haven't actually chatted with him. He's never come to our house, but
my daughter has good judgment and he seems to be a decent person.
This weekend, my dd wants to go to his house for the afternoon. I asked her to invite him
here so we could get to know him a bit before she's spending time alone with him at his
house. She said that our big family makes her feel embarrassed when friends come (the
youngers can be very inquisitive). I promised her to keep them out of her way (we have
activities that day that would help the focus not be on her new friend).
Still, she resisted. She likes keeping her friends separate from family.
So I feel a dilemma. I'm not that comfortable with their being alone in his house.
I also know that my husband won't be keen on sending her to a boy's house when we don't
actually know the boy (we really just know about him).
Any advice for how to handle this would be greatly appreciated.
Julie
We've been living out the values we've learned on this loop over the last year, trusting our
kids to develop friendships, driving them places when they need it and so on. Our kids
have been great and I have no complaints about how they've handled themselves. It was a
huge adjustment for us, but we've made it. And I'm happy with how things have gone.
As usual, new situations arise that force me to rethink my attitudes again.
Right now I'm faced with a developing friendship between our 14 yog and an 18 yob. So
far, they aren't romantically involved. They go to the mall or afternoon movies together
and spend a lot of time on IM. They've gone to a concert too with my older son and
another boy so there were four of them together.
I've met the boy but haven't actually chatted with him. He's never come to our house, but
my daughter has good judgment and he seems to be a decent person.
This weekend, my dd wants to go to his house for the afternoon. I asked her to invite him
here so we could get to know him a bit before she's spending time alone with him at his
house. She said that our big family makes her feel embarrassed when friends come (the
youngers can be very inquisitive). I promised her to keep them out of her way (we have
activities that day that would help the focus not be on her new friend).
Still, she resisted. She likes keeping her friends separate from family.
So I feel a dilemma. I'm not that comfortable with their being alone in his house.
I also know that my husband won't be keen on sending her to a boy's house when we don't
actually know the boy (we really just know about him).
Any advice for how to handle this would be greatly appreciated.
Julie
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/3/04 11:26:15 AM, julie@... writes:
<< Still, she resisted. She likes keeping her friends separate from family. >>
That's rough.
What about another plan? You do something with her and the boy outside and
away from the younger kids?
But it seems somewhat suspicious to me if she's embarrassed to have him at
home. If she's being different with him than at home, that might be an
indicator.
<<Any advice for how to handle this would be greatly appreciated.>>
Do you know his parents?
Maybe in true negotiator style you could tell her that before she visits his
house, maybe he AND HIS PARENTS should come over that day. Maybe his whole
family. That will seem way huge to her and she could say "no, too much," and
you could say "Okay, how about just him?" And maybe her relief at not having to
have his whole family over will make it seem small.
Like the Jewish story about the house that's too small, and the rabbi advises
bringing the chicken in. Next week "My wife's complaining that the house is
too crowded." "Bring in the goat." Etc. for a few weeks until "My wife is
furious now because she can't even turn around." "Okay, take all the animals
out."
Then the house seemed plenty big!!
Sandra
<< Still, she resisted. She likes keeping her friends separate from family. >>
That's rough.
What about another plan? You do something with her and the boy outside and
away from the younger kids?
But it seems somewhat suspicious to me if she's embarrassed to have him at
home. If she's being different with him than at home, that might be an
indicator.
<<Any advice for how to handle this would be greatly appreciated.>>
Do you know his parents?
Maybe in true negotiator style you could tell her that before she visits his
house, maybe he AND HIS PARENTS should come over that day. Maybe his whole
family. That will seem way huge to her and she could say "no, too much," and
you could say "Okay, how about just him?" And maybe her relief at not having to
have his whole family over will make it seem small.
Like the Jewish story about the house that's too small, and the rabbi advises
bringing the chicken in. Next week "My wife's complaining that the house is
too crowded." "Bring in the goat." Etc. for a few weeks until "My wife is
furious now because she can't even turn around." "Okay, take all the animals
out."
Then the house seemed plenty big!!
Sandra
Mary
From: "Julie Bogart" <julie@...>
<< Any advice for how to handle this would be greatly appreciated.>>
I really believe this one has to be a decision that is comfortable for you
and one that doesn't put a wedge between you and your daughter. It really
depends on how much you trust your daughter. And not just to say no to bad
decisions, but to think her way out of any problems and situations that may
arise. (no pun intended)
I mean, you can tell her you are uncomfortable with her going over to an
empty house with this boy. When situations came up concerning my teen
daughter, I would talk to her about my insecurities and questions which
usually led to her making me feel better, just by listening to her, voicing
my concerns and having her talk them out with me. Have you spoken to your
daugher at all about how you feel and why? That could possibly have her
understand and maybe compromise on you meeting the friend.
If she goes, what are you afraid of? Guns, drugs, sex, violence? How do you
feel about what she would do if any of these things were around and
presented to her? You seem pretty confident in her making good choices for
herself. If you don't allow her to go, she can easily become involved in
such matters by saying she's going to the movies and then going elsewhere.
"Where there's a will there's a way" is very true.
I have found in my personal experience, the times I have allowed my daughter
freedoms I was wondering about turned out very well. It was when I had a
hold on her that she found things to get into that weren't the best choices
for her. And even at that, my daughter has learned from those mistakes and
is the kind of person that has to find out for herself anyway. I just think
I would have saved us a lot of trouble and helped the trust we have together
now if I would have eased up with her sooner than I did.
But again I think it depends on the child and on how the parents feel about
the situation in general.
Some of my daughter's friends parents refuse to let their kids have friends
over the house to hang out. My daughter's newest date is amazed that she can
bring him here after she gets off work at 11-11:30. He doesn't have a car
now so she often takes him home at 3, 4 or even 5 in the morning if they
have fallen asleep watching a movie. Now he's allowed to stay out that late,
just not with friends at his house. Where could a teenager go if they like
to stay up late and not be allowed home with friends? You can only hang at
the beach for so long. My daughter doesn't get parents who freak when their
kids run into trouble out and about yet they aren't allowed to hang out at
home.
So my house is always open to her friends no matter what time it is. And
they are actually here more than they are out and about. And by her feeling
very comfortable to bring them here, she is here with them often and I do
know the kids pretty well. Her newest date I didn't know well at all. After
a few times of them going out, she brought him here. They rented a movie and
brought fast food in and hung out all night. I went in her room and had a
chance to talk to him about a lot of things for about 20 minutes or so. Made
me feel good she's hanging out with a nice kid. And if she wouldn't feel
comfortable here or I wouldn't "allow" her here with friends, I would never
know that.
At the same time, she also knows that my converstaion never turns to
grilling her friends. And she knows I will keep a check on my husband so he
doesn't pull any embarrassing behavior by scaring the crap out of the poor
kid. He can be intimidating and not really mean to be. So we made
compromises too. And we all understand that. And when situations come up
that I'm not sure about, I come right out and talk to my daughter about
that. We are always able to figure something out.
Mary B
<< Any advice for how to handle this would be greatly appreciated.>>
I really believe this one has to be a decision that is comfortable for you
and one that doesn't put a wedge between you and your daughter. It really
depends on how much you trust your daughter. And not just to say no to bad
decisions, but to think her way out of any problems and situations that may
arise. (no pun intended)
I mean, you can tell her you are uncomfortable with her going over to an
empty house with this boy. When situations came up concerning my teen
daughter, I would talk to her about my insecurities and questions which
usually led to her making me feel better, just by listening to her, voicing
my concerns and having her talk them out with me. Have you spoken to your
daugher at all about how you feel and why? That could possibly have her
understand and maybe compromise on you meeting the friend.
If she goes, what are you afraid of? Guns, drugs, sex, violence? How do you
feel about what she would do if any of these things were around and
presented to her? You seem pretty confident in her making good choices for
herself. If you don't allow her to go, she can easily become involved in
such matters by saying she's going to the movies and then going elsewhere.
"Where there's a will there's a way" is very true.
I have found in my personal experience, the times I have allowed my daughter
freedoms I was wondering about turned out very well. It was when I had a
hold on her that she found things to get into that weren't the best choices
for her. And even at that, my daughter has learned from those mistakes and
is the kind of person that has to find out for herself anyway. I just think
I would have saved us a lot of trouble and helped the trust we have together
now if I would have eased up with her sooner than I did.
But again I think it depends on the child and on how the parents feel about
the situation in general.
Some of my daughter's friends parents refuse to let their kids have friends
over the house to hang out. My daughter's newest date is amazed that she can
bring him here after she gets off work at 11-11:30. He doesn't have a car
now so she often takes him home at 3, 4 or even 5 in the morning if they
have fallen asleep watching a movie. Now he's allowed to stay out that late,
just not with friends at his house. Where could a teenager go if they like
to stay up late and not be allowed home with friends? You can only hang at
the beach for so long. My daughter doesn't get parents who freak when their
kids run into trouble out and about yet they aren't allowed to hang out at
home.
So my house is always open to her friends no matter what time it is. And
they are actually here more than they are out and about. And by her feeling
very comfortable to bring them here, she is here with them often and I do
know the kids pretty well. Her newest date I didn't know well at all. After
a few times of them going out, she brought him here. They rented a movie and
brought fast food in and hung out all night. I went in her room and had a
chance to talk to him about a lot of things for about 20 minutes or so. Made
me feel good she's hanging out with a nice kid. And if she wouldn't feel
comfortable here or I wouldn't "allow" her here with friends, I would never
know that.
At the same time, she also knows that my converstaion never turns to
grilling her friends. And she knows I will keep a check on my husband so he
doesn't pull any embarrassing behavior by scaring the crap out of the poor
kid. He can be intimidating and not really mean to be. So we made
compromises too. And we all understand that. And when situations come up
that I'm not sure about, I come right out and talk to my daughter about
that. We are always able to figure something out.
Mary B
[email protected]
Wow, I don't blame you for being worried. Even if both of them are nice
people it would be very tempting for something to happen if they are possibly
romantic and alone. I would talk to her and say exactly that. Maybe she isn't
really interested and she doesn't realize that he is. What does she do if he tries
something and takes her by surprise? Is she ready for that? 14 is so young. I
think it is a very difficult situation she is putting herself in. Maybe it is
her way of wanting you to stop her by telling you she is doing this. Maybe she
is at least looking for guidance even though she acts like you are just
annoying her.
I would strongly discourage it. You know your daughter. Some kids
would still do it and keep it a secret. If that happens, at least she'll have
heard your advice and hopefully you don't have a pregnant 14 year old. I snuck
around when I was 19 or 20 but 14 sounds so young. Even though I was alone with
my boyfriend when I wasn't supposed to be, I still remembered what my parents
told me and knew they were right.
Good luck. My oldest is just 9 and those days will be coming for me soon.
It is really scary to me because even if you do everything right (and I know I
don't) there is still that big world out there that can pull them away from
you and you just pray they survive.
Hang in there. Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
people it would be very tempting for something to happen if they are possibly
romantic and alone. I would talk to her and say exactly that. Maybe she isn't
really interested and she doesn't realize that he is. What does she do if he tries
something and takes her by surprise? Is she ready for that? 14 is so young. I
think it is a very difficult situation she is putting herself in. Maybe it is
her way of wanting you to stop her by telling you she is doing this. Maybe she
is at least looking for guidance even though she acts like you are just
annoying her.
I would strongly discourage it. You know your daughter. Some kids
would still do it and keep it a secret. If that happens, at least she'll have
heard your advice and hopefully you don't have a pregnant 14 year old. I snuck
around when I was 19 or 20 but 14 sounds so young. Even though I was alone with
my boyfriend when I wasn't supposed to be, I still remembered what my parents
told me and knew they were right.
Good luck. My oldest is just 9 and those days will be coming for me soon.
It is really scary to me because even if you do everything right (and I know I
don't) there is still that big world out there that can pull them away from
you and you just pray they survive.
Hang in there. Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J. Stauffer
<<She likes keeping her friends separate from family.>>
Is she the oldest? I think this is fairly normal. My oldest is 13 and
hates for her friends to come to the house because the little guys (4 of
them) can be somewhat intrusive.....ok really intrusive.
Will she listen if you talk about you being uncomfortable because you don't
know him? That you understand that she really likes this boy and that you
would be much more comfortable with them being alone together if you had the
opportunity to like him too.
I think the idea of spending time away from the little guys is a good idea.
Perhaps offer to buy her and the boy lunch, or a bowling game, or
something.....
Julie S.----whose 13 yo won't quit talking about the 19yo boy at gymnastics
<sigh>
Is she the oldest? I think this is fairly normal. My oldest is 13 and
hates for her friends to come to the house because the little guys (4 of
them) can be somewhat intrusive.....ok really intrusive.
Will she listen if you talk about you being uncomfortable because you don't
know him? That you understand that she really likes this boy and that you
would be much more comfortable with them being alone together if you had the
opportunity to like him too.
I think the idea of spending time away from the little guys is a good idea.
Perhaps offer to buy her and the boy lunch, or a bowling game, or
something.....
Julie S.----whose 13 yo won't quit talking about the 19yo boy at gymnastics
<sigh>
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Knowing your kids' friends
>
> In a message dated 3/3/04 11:26:15 AM, julie@... writes:
>
> << Still, she resisted. She likes keeping her friends separate from
family. >>
>
> That's rough.
>
> What about another plan? You do something with her and the boy outside
and
> away from the younger kids?
>
> But it seems somewhat suspicious to me if she's embarrassed to have him at
> home. If she's being different with him than at home, that might be an
> indicator.
>
> <<Any advice for how to handle this would be greatly appreciated.>>
>
> Do you know his parents?
>
> Maybe in true negotiator style you could tell her that before she visits
his
> house, maybe he AND HIS PARENTS should come over that day. Maybe his
whole
> family. That will seem way huge to her and she could say "no, too much,"
and
> you could say "Okay, how about just him?" And maybe her relief at not
having to
> have his whole family over will make it seem small.
>
> Like the Jewish story about the house that's too small, and the rabbi
advises
> bringing the chicken in. Next week "My wife's complaining that the house
is
> too crowded." "Bring in the goat." Etc. for a few weeks until "My wife
is
> furious now because she can't even turn around." "Okay, take all the
animals
> out."
>
> Then the house seemed plenty big!!
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/3/2004 1:27:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
julie@... writes:
<<So I feel a dilemma. I'm not that comfortable with their being alone in his
house.
I also know that my husband won't be keen on sending her to a boy's house
when we don't
actually know the boy (we really just know about him).>>
One of the things I've always loved about homeschooling is the way I always
know my kids' friends. They really tend to flock to our house and sometimes
seem to be as much *my* friends as my children's. But as Em's gotten older
there have been some conflicts w/the little ones being annoying and definitely
over inquisitive, lol! Emily is 15 and most of her friends are over 18. I give
Emily the same freedom I would give another adult living in my household...but
this is because I *know* her. We don't keep secrets from each other. I
trust Em to make good judgments about being alone with people and putting herself
into difficult situations.
I think the focus should be on your dd and not the guy. Do you trust her to
make good judgments about boys? I would be upfront and honest with her about
your concerns. Tell her exactly what you are worried could happen and see how
she responds. Are you worried about *date rape*? Or are you worried about
your dd becoming sexually active at such a young age? Or do you just think she
might be getting into a situation she can't handle? Again, I would openly
discuss all your concerns with her and maybe discuss some ways she could handle
different situations. If she still wanted to go I'd let her <g>.
I feel that mutual trust and the freedom that results is the foundation of my
relationship with my children. I have received a lot of criticism about the
level of freedom I give my kids since Em was about 10. Interestingly, the
same people who criticize *permissive* parenting are quick to say what wonderful
children I have. They just seem to have a hard time seeing the connection.
--Jacqueline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
julie@... writes:
<<So I feel a dilemma. I'm not that comfortable with their being alone in his
house.
I also know that my husband won't be keen on sending her to a boy's house
when we don't
actually know the boy (we really just know about him).>>
One of the things I've always loved about homeschooling is the way I always
know my kids' friends. They really tend to flock to our house and sometimes
seem to be as much *my* friends as my children's. But as Em's gotten older
there have been some conflicts w/the little ones being annoying and definitely
over inquisitive, lol! Emily is 15 and most of her friends are over 18. I give
Emily the same freedom I would give another adult living in my household...but
this is because I *know* her. We don't keep secrets from each other. I
trust Em to make good judgments about being alone with people and putting herself
into difficult situations.
I think the focus should be on your dd and not the guy. Do you trust her to
make good judgments about boys? I would be upfront and honest with her about
your concerns. Tell her exactly what you are worried could happen and see how
she responds. Are you worried about *date rape*? Or are you worried about
your dd becoming sexually active at such a young age? Or do you just think she
might be getting into a situation she can't handle? Again, I would openly
discuss all your concerns with her and maybe discuss some ways she could handle
different situations. If she still wanted to go I'd let her <g>.
I feel that mutual trust and the freedom that results is the foundation of my
relationship with my children. I have received a lot of criticism about the
level of freedom I give my kids since Em was about 10. Interestingly, the
same people who criticize *permissive* parenting are quick to say what wonderful
children I have. They just seem to have a hard time seeing the connection.
--Jacqueline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Bogart
Thanks for the good advice.
I wanted to share what we came up with as I processed the various helps you all posted.
My dd was able to let me in on why she didn't want this boy here a little more clearly. She
was afraid that it would appear to him that we thought of him as her boyfriend when he is
really just a friend. I could totally understand this.
I explained that my dh and I felt better knowing him first before she spends days at his
house just like we know the rest of her friends. Then we'll have no problem with them
hanging out together there.
She was okay with that but wondered how to handle the potential awkwardness of his
coming here. She solved her own problem. :) She invited another girlfriend to come too.
They are making an Internet forum all three together.
And I promised to keep little ones occupied elsewhere to prevent their being an
embarrassment.
We do have a relationship that is built on trust. It's a reciprocal trust - I do trust her
judgment, but I also want her to trust me when I have a little red flag. We discussed this
and she agreed that was valid.
The goal we have is for everyone to feel good about stuff, not just one side while the other
stifles their feelings. So I try to come without prejudgments but also to pay attention to my
gut.
I appreciate the range of replies (not all identical) because that gave me more to think
through. So thanks!
Julie
I wanted to share what we came up with as I processed the various helps you all posted.
My dd was able to let me in on why she didn't want this boy here a little more clearly. She
was afraid that it would appear to him that we thought of him as her boyfriend when he is
really just a friend. I could totally understand this.
I explained that my dh and I felt better knowing him first before she spends days at his
house just like we know the rest of her friends. Then we'll have no problem with them
hanging out together there.
She was okay with that but wondered how to handle the potential awkwardness of his
coming here. She solved her own problem. :) She invited another girlfriend to come too.
They are making an Internet forum all three together.
And I promised to keep little ones occupied elsewhere to prevent their being an
embarrassment.
We do have a relationship that is built on trust. It's a reciprocal trust - I do trust her
judgment, but I also want her to trust me when I have a little red flag. We discussed this
and she agreed that was valid.
The goal we have is for everyone to feel good about stuff, not just one side while the other
stifles their feelings. So I try to come without prejudgments but also to pay attention to my
gut.
I appreciate the range of replies (not all identical) because that gave me more to think
through. So thanks!
Julie
--- In [email protected], ivorygrace7@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/3/2004 1:27:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> julie@b... writes:
> <<So I feel a dilemma. I'm not that comfortable with their being alone in his
> house.
>
> I also know that my husband won't be keen on sending her to a boy's house
> when we don't
> actually know the boy (we really just know about him).>>
>
> One of the things I've always loved about homeschooling is the way I always
> know my kids' friends. They really tend to flock to our house and sometimes
> seem to be as much *my* friends as my children's. But as Em's gotten older
> there have been some conflicts w/the little ones being annoying and definitely
> over inquisitive, lol! Emily is 15 and most of her friends are over 18. I give
> Emily the same freedom I would give another adult living in my household...but
> this is because I *know* her. We don't keep secrets from each other. I
> trust Em to make good judgments about being alone with people and putting herself
> into difficult situations.
>
> I think the focus should be on your dd and not the guy. Do you trust her to
> make good judgments about boys? I would be upfront and honest with her about
> your concerns. Tell her exactly what you are worried could happen and see how
> she responds. Are you worried about *date rape*? Or are you worried about
> your dd becoming sexually active at such a young age? Or do you just think she
> might be getting into a situation she can't handle? Again, I would openly
> discuss all your concerns with her and maybe discuss some ways she could handle
> different situations. If she still wanted to go I'd let her <g>.
>
> I feel that mutual trust and the freedom that results is the foundation of my
> relationship with my children. I have received a lot of criticism about the
> level of freedom I give my kids since Em was about 10. Interestingly, the
> same people who criticize *permissive* parenting are quick to say what wonderful
> children I have. They just seem to have a hard time seeing the connection.
>
> --Jacqueline
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Angela
Cool Julie. Glad to know you got to the bottom of it and found a solution
you could all be happy with.
Angela
<mailto:game-enthusiast@...> game-enthusiast@...
Julie wrote:
I wanted to share what we came up with as I processed the various helps you
all posted.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
you could all be happy with.
Angela
<mailto:game-enthusiast@...> game-enthusiast@...
Julie wrote:
I wanted to share what we came up with as I processed the various helps you
all posted.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]