Law and Order
doreenf1969
Did anyone see Law and Order Special Victim Unit last night? It
was very scary. All about a homeschooling family where the
mother kept the kids home to keep them safe -- paranoid. And of
course, tragedy struck. But what bothered me, was the attitude
of everyone on the show that homescoolers need to be more
regulated. It frightened me as an unschooler especially -- what
could I show to someone who decided I was homeschooling for
some evil reason? Almost enough to have nightmares over.
Doreen
was very scary. All about a homeschooling family where the
mother kept the kids home to keep them safe -- paranoid. And of
course, tragedy struck. But what bothered me, was the attitude
of everyone on the show that homescoolers need to be more
regulated. It frightened me as an unschooler especially -- what
could I show to someone who decided I was homeschooling for
some evil reason? Almost enough to have nightmares over.
Doreen
Have a Nice Day!
I saw it too, and I was a little angry about it because they brought it up so many times.
On the other hand, they DID have another homeschool family on there that talked about other reasons people choose to homeschool, including their own: they couldn't afford private school and they didn't like the public schools.
They also did not make it an issue of homeschool methodology "They don't do ANYTHING with their kids" and make it to sound like neglect. But they there was one line (I forget whose it was) about not being sure that homeschooling was best for these kids.
Given what the mother was doing to the kids though, I'm not sure I disagree.
I think they were stepping pretty close to the line, but overall, I think they kept the issue to the mother's paranoia, and not the fact that she homeschools. It is true that some people homeschool to control their kids. It is the vast minority, but it happens.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On the other hand, they DID have another homeschool family on there that talked about other reasons people choose to homeschool, including their own: they couldn't afford private school and they didn't like the public schools.
They also did not make it an issue of homeschool methodology "They don't do ANYTHING with their kids" and make it to sound like neglect. But they there was one line (I forget whose it was) about not being sure that homeschooling was best for these kids.
Given what the mother was doing to the kids though, I'm not sure I disagree.
I think they were stepping pretty close to the line, but overall, I think they kept the issue to the mother's paranoia, and not the fact that she homeschools. It is true that some people homeschool to control their kids. It is the vast minority, but it happens.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/18/04 11:35:58 AM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< It is true that some people homeschool to control their kids. It is the
vast minority, but it happens. >>
I don't think it's the vast minority.
It's the vast minority among unschoolers.
Unschoolers are the vast minority of homeschoolers.
Sandra
<< It is true that some people homeschool to control their kids. It is the
vast minority, but it happens. >>
I don't think it's the vast minority.
It's the vast minority among unschoolers.
Unschoolers are the vast minority of homeschoolers.
Sandra
Tracey Inman
I saw the show last night. I listened carefully to what everyone was
saying. One person made the remark that homeschooling is good when it is
worked properly. I saw it from a little different slant. For the most
part, the detectives were ignorant about homeschooling but listened to
others about the process of homeschooling. I didn't get the impression they
were out to slam homeschoolers. They also had advocates of homeschooling
defending the process which I thought was good. I also thought there was a
really good lesson about being aware of what is around you. Take the mother
for instance that realized when her daughter and the paranoids mother's son
were getting too close she pulled away along with the fact the mother didn't
know her daughter had received the e-mails from that boy. What if the
mother was more in tune with her daughter would she have known about the
e-mail and been able to prevent the little boys death? Something to think
about it. I thought it was a balanced show. The truth is I am sure there
are parents who probably do homeschool for some paranoid reasons. But isn't
that true about life. There are some scary people in this world! My phrase
I use often is ..."People, people,....they are everywhere!" It takes all
kinds to make the world go round. I too however think often about proving
to the law that what I am doing is best for my girls by unschooling. I am
very new to homeschooling as well as unschooling. I just bathe it in prayer
and do the very best I can do.
Tracey
Tracey Inman
Legacy for Life
336.580.1844
http://TraceyInman.com
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saying. One person made the remark that homeschooling is good when it is
worked properly. I saw it from a little different slant. For the most
part, the detectives were ignorant about homeschooling but listened to
others about the process of homeschooling. I didn't get the impression they
were out to slam homeschoolers. They also had advocates of homeschooling
defending the process which I thought was good. I also thought there was a
really good lesson about being aware of what is around you. Take the mother
for instance that realized when her daughter and the paranoids mother's son
were getting too close she pulled away along with the fact the mother didn't
know her daughter had received the e-mails from that boy. What if the
mother was more in tune with her daughter would she have known about the
e-mail and been able to prevent the little boys death? Something to think
about it. I thought it was a balanced show. The truth is I am sure there
are parents who probably do homeschool for some paranoid reasons. But isn't
that true about life. There are some scary people in this world! My phrase
I use often is ..."People, people,....they are everywhere!" It takes all
kinds to make the world go round. I too however think often about proving
to the law that what I am doing is best for my girls by unschooling. I am
very new to homeschooling as well as unschooling. I just bathe it in prayer
and do the very best I can do.
Tracey
Tracey Inman
Legacy for Life
336.580.1844
http://TraceyInman.com
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Diane
It can also be scary to deal with a paranoid parent when one is not
homeschooling.
There was a case in Hawaii in 1964 similar to the more recent case in
Texas, but in that case after the (paranoid schizophrenic) mom had
drowned the preschoolers, she went to the school, picked up the older
child, and drowned him too.
Mental illness is often scary, but it is so regardless of educational
options.
:-) Diane
Tracey Inman wrote:
homeschooling.
There was a case in Hawaii in 1964 similar to the more recent case in
Texas, but in that case after the (paranoid schizophrenic) mom had
drowned the preschoolers, she went to the school, picked up the older
child, and drowned him too.
Mental illness is often scary, but it is so regardless of educational
options.
:-) Diane
Tracey Inman wrote:
>I saw the show last night. I listened carefully to what everyone was
>saying. One person made the remark that homeschooling is good when it is
>worked properly. I saw it from a little different slant. For the most
>part, the detectives were ignorant about homeschooling but listened to
>others about the process of homeschooling. I didn't get the impression they
>were out to slam homeschoolers.
>
Robyn Coburn
What bothered me was the attitudes of the sympathetically portrayed teachers
and administrators in the schools and the statement about how �school is
important for more than just learning�. According to writers, schools act as
a safety net for all types of abuse, or mental/emotional problems in
children that parents would be unable to detect. The middle boy�s former
teacher was supposedly still infuriated and concerned about him from a
number of years ago. That felt implausible to me. How many kids does she
have in her class to have to focus on? On the other hand, it came out
towards the end as yet another case where the family slipped through the
cracks of the child and family welfare organization of the relevant State.
It irritated me that every time the NY support organization it was with a
tone of deep suspicion and hostility. More fodder for the HONDA campaign I
guess. I feel strongly that our best protection from suspicion of abuse is
being visible in the community.
<<I saw it too, and I was a little angry about it because they brought it up
so many times.
On the other hand, they DID have another homeschool family on there that
talked about other reasons people choose to homeschool, including their own:
they couldn't afford private school and they didn't like the public
schools.>>
What is briefly mentioned in the second half of an hour long show, has far
less impact than the much repeated information expressed by the leads in the
first 15 minutes. People switch channels at predictable times � every 15
minutes in the commercial break, and specifically at the half hour when some
other program may actually be starting. The Law and Order format is
particularly conducive to viewers going and then returning just to see how
the end turned out. I�ve done that before now.
Robyn L. Coburn
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and administrators in the schools and the statement about how �school is
important for more than just learning�. According to writers, schools act as
a safety net for all types of abuse, or mental/emotional problems in
children that parents would be unable to detect. The middle boy�s former
teacher was supposedly still infuriated and concerned about him from a
number of years ago. That felt implausible to me. How many kids does she
have in her class to have to focus on? On the other hand, it came out
towards the end as yet another case where the family slipped through the
cracks of the child and family welfare organization of the relevant State.
It irritated me that every time the NY support organization it was with a
tone of deep suspicion and hostility. More fodder for the HONDA campaign I
guess. I feel strongly that our best protection from suspicion of abuse is
being visible in the community.
<<I saw it too, and I was a little angry about it because they brought it up
so many times.
On the other hand, they DID have another homeschool family on there that
talked about other reasons people choose to homeschool, including their own:
they couldn't afford private school and they didn't like the public
schools.>>
What is briefly mentioned in the second half of an hour long show, has far
less impact than the much repeated information expressed by the leads in the
first 15 minutes. People switch channels at predictable times � every 15
minutes in the commercial break, and specifically at the half hour when some
other program may actually be starting. The Law and Order format is
particularly conducive to viewers going and then returning just to see how
the end turned out. I�ve done that before now.
Robyn L. Coburn
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mark and Rheta Wallingford
I watched that, too, and was rather annoyed by the statement made by the
social worker (I believe) that "school is a safety net". Basically
saying, that people who Homeschool could be abusing their kids and no
one would know, whereas, if they were going to school, someone would see
the bruises. There are many kids that die from abuse and go to public
school. They slip through the cracks, no one wants to get involved.
Sometimes there is no abuse but a teacher may feel there is and a family
ends up being watched by the system for no reason. Homeschooling has
nothing to do with it.
The tone of the show bothered me because they made it sound like there
was this underground group of people that were daring to keep their
children out of the public schools and it was just coming to light now.
The show slanted toward needing more regulation on homeschoolers. That
one mom did mention her reasons for homeschooling, but I did notice that
her daughter went to study her French and the mom said "I'll drill you
on them later". In other words, we do all the things they would do in
the public school so we are not abusing our children.
Bottom line, there were no physical scars on the children. I'm not sure
the school system would have reported anything or not. They just would
have been teased for being paranoid and different (because of the
mindset the mother had pushed on them from small children). Then the
school system would have cried and boohooed that they can't catch
everything. I couldn't believe when the psychiatrist told the kid that
"School shootings are relatively rare". They shouldn't exist!
Rheta
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
social worker (I believe) that "school is a safety net". Basically
saying, that people who Homeschool could be abusing their kids and no
one would know, whereas, if they were going to school, someone would see
the bruises. There are many kids that die from abuse and go to public
school. They slip through the cracks, no one wants to get involved.
Sometimes there is no abuse but a teacher may feel there is and a family
ends up being watched by the system for no reason. Homeschooling has
nothing to do with it.
The tone of the show bothered me because they made it sound like there
was this underground group of people that were daring to keep their
children out of the public schools and it was just coming to light now.
The show slanted toward needing more regulation on homeschoolers. That
one mom did mention her reasons for homeschooling, but I did notice that
her daughter went to study her French and the mom said "I'll drill you
on them later". In other words, we do all the things they would do in
the public school so we are not abusing our children.
Bottom line, there were no physical scars on the children. I'm not sure
the school system would have reported anything or not. They just would
have been teased for being paranoid and different (because of the
mindset the mother had pushed on them from small children). Then the
school system would have cried and boohooed that they can't catch
everything. I couldn't believe when the psychiatrist told the kid that
"School shootings are relatively rare". They shouldn't exist!
Rheta
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tracey Inman
I agree, mental illness is everywhere. And so often I have seen children of
these parents slip through the cracks of all systems be it education or
otherwise.
Tracey
Tracey Inman
Legacy for Life
336.580.1844
http://TraceyInman.com
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these parents slip through the cracks of all systems be it education or
otherwise.
Tracey
Tracey Inman
Legacy for Life
336.580.1844
http://TraceyInman.com
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J. Stauffer
<<<<<what
Julie S.
> could I show to someone who decided I was homeschooling forI think the best thing is happy, laughing children.
> some evil reason?>>>>
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "doreenf1969" <doreen.fanning@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 10:20 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Law and Order
> Did anyone see Law and Order Special Victim Unit last night? It
> was very scary. All about a homeschooling family where the
> mother kept the kids home to keep them safe -- paranoid. And of
> course, tragedy struck. But what bothered me, was the attitude
> of everyone on the show that homescoolers need to be more
> regulated. It frightened me as an unschooler especially -- what
> could I show to someone who decided I was homeschooling for
> some evil reason? Almost enough to have nightmares over.
>
> Doreen
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
J. Stauffer
<<<<It is true that some people homeschool to control their kids. It is the
vast minority, but it happens. >>>>
Here in the Bible belt, it is the vast majority.
Julie S.
vast minority, but it happens. >>>>
Here in the Bible belt, it is the vast majority.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Have a Nice Day!" <litlrooh@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Law and Order
> I saw it too, and I was a little angry about it because they brought it up
so many times.
>
> On the other hand, they DID have another homeschool family on there that
talked about other reasons people choose to homeschool, including their own:
they couldn't afford private school and they didn't like the public schools.
>
> They also did not make it an issue of homeschool methodology "They don't
do ANYTHING with their kids" and make it to sound like neglect. But they
there was one line (I forget whose it was) about not being sure that
homeschooling was best for these kids.
>
> Given what the mother was doing to the kids though, I'm not sure I
disagree.
>
> I think they were stepping pretty close to the line, but overall, I think
they kept the issue to the mother's paranoia, and not the fact that she
homeschools. It is true that some people homeschool to control their kids.
It is the vast minority, but it happens.
>
> Kristen
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
J. Stauffer
<<<<<The middle boy's former
teacher was supposedly still infuriated and concerned about him from a
number of years ago. That felt implausible to me. How many kids does she
have in her class to have to focus on?>>>>>
I haven't worked as a therapist for over 5 years and when I did I saw kids
back to back all day, every day.
I still think of Michael and Rusty on a regular basis. Some kids just touch
your heart.
Julie S.----who didn't see the show
teacher was supposedly still infuriated and concerned about him from a
number of years ago. That felt implausible to me. How many kids does she
have in her class to have to focus on?>>>>>
I haven't worked as a therapist for over 5 years and when I did I saw kids
back to back all day, every day.
I still think of Michael and Rusty on a regular basis. Some kids just touch
your heart.
Julie S.----who didn't see the show
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robyn Coburn" <dezigna@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 7:00 PM
Subject: RE: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Law and Order
What bothered me was the attitudes of the sympathetically portrayed teachers
and administrators in the schools and the statement about how "school is
important for more than just learning". According to writers, schools act as
a safety net for all types of abuse, or mental/emotional problems in
children that parents would be unable to detect. The middle boy's former
teacher was supposedly still infuriated and concerned about him from a
number of years ago. That felt implausible to me. How many kids does she
have in her class to have to focus on? On the other hand, it came out
towards the end as yet another case where the family slipped through the
cracks of the child and family welfare organization of the relevant State.
It irritated me that every time the NY support organization it was with a
tone of deep suspicion and hostility. More fodder for the HONDA campaign I
guess. I feel strongly that our best protection from suspicion of abuse is
being visible in the community.
<<I saw it too, and I was a little angry about it because they brought it up
so many times.
On the other hand, they DID have another homeschool family on there that
talked about other reasons people choose to homeschool, including their own:
they couldn't afford private school and they didn't like the public
schools.>>
What is briefly mentioned in the second half of an hour long show, has far
less impact than the much repeated information expressed by the leads in the
first 15 minutes. People switch channels at predictable times - every 15
minutes in the commercial break, and specifically at the half hour when some
other program may actually be starting. The Law and Order format is
particularly conducive to viewers going and then returning just to see how
the end turned out. I've done that before now.
Robyn L. Coburn
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
J. Stauffer
<<<<< I couldn't believe when the psychiatrist told the kid that
people, including children, have killed people since the beginning of time.
Holding schools to some sort of higher standard seems odd.
In fact, schools are a place where people are forced to go against their
will, to do things against their will, to have their constitutional rights
trampled on and to be overcrowded. I am surprised that school shootings
aren't more common.
Julie S.
> "School shootings are relatively rare". They shouldn't exist! >>>>But school shootings are actually quite rare. What he said is true. Also,
people, including children, have killed people since the beginning of time.
Holding schools to some sort of higher standard seems odd.
In fact, schools are a place where people are forced to go against their
will, to do things against their will, to have their constitutional rights
trampled on and to be overcrowded. I am surprised that school shootings
aren't more common.
Julie S.
Dawn Adams
Robyn writes:
What is briefly mentioned in the second half of an hour long show, has far
less impact than the much repeated information expressed by the leads in the
first 15 minutes. People switch channels at predictable times - every 15
minutes in the commercial break, and specifically at the half hour when some
other program may actually be starting. The Law and Order format is
particularly conducive to viewers going and then returning just to see how
the end turned out. I've done that before now.
in awhile but actively avoid L&O Titilation (SVU) and L&O Over the Top
Acting (CI). Someone lock upVincent D'onfri-whatever...pleeeeeeease.
Dawn (in NS)
What is briefly mentioned in the second half of an hour long show, has far
less impact than the much repeated information expressed by the leads in the
first 15 minutes. People switch channels at predictable times - every 15
minutes in the commercial break, and specifically at the half hour when some
other program may actually be starting. The Law and Order format is
particularly conducive to viewers going and then returning just to see how
the end turned out. I've done that before now.
>>>>>I'm glad I gave up on Law and Order. I still catch the original every once
in awhile but actively avoid L&O Titilation (SVU) and L&O Over the Top
Acting (CI). Someone lock upVincent D'onfri-whatever...pleeeeeeease.
Dawn (in NS)
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/18/04 6:35:57 PM, dezigna@... writes:
<< According to writers, schools act as
a safety net for all types of abuse, or mental/emotional problems in
children that parents would be unable to detect. >>
I think it's true in a lot of cases, though. Any teacher who has ever seen a
kid who asked for help at school will understandably be wary of the danger of
homeschooled kids having no outside witnesses. I'm entirely serious.
Because I had been one of those teachers and because I know that parents who
are abusing children will not see it clearly at all, we made a deal with two
adult friends, when our boys were little. We told the boys if they ever were
really angry at us or afraid of us, or if they thought we weren't being good
parents, they should go to Paul or Jeff and tell them the whole story. We told
Paul and Jeff, who were in their 20s at the time, and are still in our lives
now, that if the boys came to them to complain they should take the boys' side
and listen to them and act if necessary, whether by talking to us or in
worst-case scenarios getting the kids out and away from us.
It made me feel better. It was a back-up plan that satisfied, for me, the
problem of the knowledge that some people DO abuse their kids and hide them.
I figured, too, it would be a comfort for other teacher-friends who expressed
that concern. Nobody's ever asked.
Overall, though, it's not fair to scoff at those concerns.
Probably a lot of the church-based homeschoolers think their churches would
be the backup system, but in a couple of recent horror-shows, the families went
to church. It didn't save them. But we don't know how many families who do
go to church stay in line just to avoid the eyeball of the older women.
Some families have no school backup, no church, don't take their kids to
doctors...
In a message dated 2/18/04 6:55:26 PM, wallingford@... writes:
<< Bottom line, there were no physical scars on the children. >>
I don't know what you meant by this.
There are homeschoolers who use physical punishment related to "schoolwork."
There are homeschoolers who have killed their children.
<<"School shootings are relatively rare". They shouldn't exist! >>
Homeschool killings are relatively rare. Should I just not mention them?
If a father were ever to sexually molest his daughter (and I know it happens;
probably not as rarely as school shootings), wouldn't it be better for him if
she didn't have to go to school? He runs a risk by her having other adults
who care about her, who might see changes in her mood or behavior.
Sandra
<< According to writers, schools act as
a safety net for all types of abuse, or mental/emotional problems in
children that parents would be unable to detect. >>
I think it's true in a lot of cases, though. Any teacher who has ever seen a
kid who asked for help at school will understandably be wary of the danger of
homeschooled kids having no outside witnesses. I'm entirely serious.
Because I had been one of those teachers and because I know that parents who
are abusing children will not see it clearly at all, we made a deal with two
adult friends, when our boys were little. We told the boys if they ever were
really angry at us or afraid of us, or if they thought we weren't being good
parents, they should go to Paul or Jeff and tell them the whole story. We told
Paul and Jeff, who were in their 20s at the time, and are still in our lives
now, that if the boys came to them to complain they should take the boys' side
and listen to them and act if necessary, whether by talking to us or in
worst-case scenarios getting the kids out and away from us.
It made me feel better. It was a back-up plan that satisfied, for me, the
problem of the knowledge that some people DO abuse their kids and hide them.
I figured, too, it would be a comfort for other teacher-friends who expressed
that concern. Nobody's ever asked.
Overall, though, it's not fair to scoff at those concerns.
Probably a lot of the church-based homeschoolers think their churches would
be the backup system, but in a couple of recent horror-shows, the families went
to church. It didn't save them. But we don't know how many families who do
go to church stay in line just to avoid the eyeball of the older women.
Some families have no school backup, no church, don't take their kids to
doctors...
In a message dated 2/18/04 6:55:26 PM, wallingford@... writes:
<< Bottom line, there were no physical scars on the children. >>
I don't know what you meant by this.
There are homeschoolers who use physical punishment related to "schoolwork."
There are homeschoolers who have killed their children.
<<"School shootings are relatively rare". They shouldn't exist! >>
Homeschool killings are relatively rare. Should I just not mention them?
If a father were ever to sexually molest his daughter (and I know it happens;
probably not as rarely as school shootings), wouldn't it be better for him if
she didn't have to go to school? He runs a risk by her having other adults
who care about her, who might see changes in her mood or behavior.
Sandra