Do you graduate your kids from high school?
Julie Bogart
And if you do, do you celebrate that event? (Diploma of any kind, ceremony, party, dinner
out for recognition of high school completion...)
What does graduation mean to you or your kids? How do you determine that your child has
crossed that threshhold? (Do you actually assign credits and use a guideline from a school
or do you simply choose an age and call it the end or some other way of evaluating?) Does
it matter to either your kids or you?
If you don't offer any kind of homeschool diploma or graduation, would you share your
thinking about that and offer another perspective?
Thanks!
Julie Bogart
out for recognition of high school completion...)
What does graduation mean to you or your kids? How do you determine that your child has
crossed that threshhold? (Do you actually assign credits and use a guideline from a school
or do you simply choose an age and call it the end or some other way of evaluating?) Does
it matter to either your kids or you?
If you don't offer any kind of homeschool diploma or graduation, would you share your
thinking about that and offer another perspective?
Thanks!
Julie Bogart
[email protected]
I used to think we should do something graduationish for Kirby's 18th
birthday, but Keith and I talked about it, and it might seem like we were "graduating
him" from being our kid, and we don't want to do that.
His learning isn't finished. His living at home could have been finished
sooner if he had wanted to move out (he isn't "staying here to finish high
school"), but he's not ready to move out.
When he was little and unschooling seemed more like an academic-area school
alternative, I always figured we would mark the end of it somehow, but now that
he's 17 and would be graduating if he had gone to school, it doesn't seem
that in the absence of school he is finishing something. He will know he would
have been out of school, but the kids he hangs around with range in age and
educational placement from mid-school to grad-school and various ages of people
not defined by school at all, so he isn't at all out of place in that group,
nor will he be later.
Some of his homeschooled friends have already taken some classes at the
university or the local trades college (which has lots of first-year
English/math/science stuff that can transfer to UNM), but Kirby hasn't had need or interest.
Some of them have full-time jobs already; Kirby has a part time job and
teaches at the karate dojo where he studies.
It seems at this point that having a ceremony would be inappropriate, kind of
like interrupting kids while they're doing something really useful and
intriguing and asking them to do something arbitrary. It would seem arbitrary, and
disruptive.
We should talk to him about whether he wants to mark turning 18 in some
special way, but I would want to make clear that he doesn't need to move out.
But to the direct question, I don't consider him to be "in high school," I
consider him not to have been in school, and there's no graduation from that
unless it would be to GO to school.
Sandra
birthday, but Keith and I talked about it, and it might seem like we were "graduating
him" from being our kid, and we don't want to do that.
His learning isn't finished. His living at home could have been finished
sooner if he had wanted to move out (he isn't "staying here to finish high
school"), but he's not ready to move out.
When he was little and unschooling seemed more like an academic-area school
alternative, I always figured we would mark the end of it somehow, but now that
he's 17 and would be graduating if he had gone to school, it doesn't seem
that in the absence of school he is finishing something. He will know he would
have been out of school, but the kids he hangs around with range in age and
educational placement from mid-school to grad-school and various ages of people
not defined by school at all, so he isn't at all out of place in that group,
nor will he be later.
Some of his homeschooled friends have already taken some classes at the
university or the local trades college (which has lots of first-year
English/math/science stuff that can transfer to UNM), but Kirby hasn't had need or interest.
Some of them have full-time jobs already; Kirby has a part time job and
teaches at the karate dojo where he studies.
It seems at this point that having a ceremony would be inappropriate, kind of
like interrupting kids while they're doing something really useful and
intriguing and asking them to do something arbitrary. It would seem arbitrary, and
disruptive.
We should talk to him about whether he wants to mark turning 18 in some
special way, but I would want to make clear that he doesn't need to move out.
But to the direct question, I don't consider him to be "in high school," I
consider him not to have been in school, and there's no graduation from that
unless it would be to GO to school.
Sandra
Julie Bogart
Thank you. This is somewhat what I expected to hear and I needed to hear it spelled out.
We have had a combination of schooling (as you know) and have only unschooled in
earnest for a year. Perhaps the best way to handle it is to ask him what he wants. When I
added up credits, I found that he (as a mid year junior technically) is only 1 and a half
credits from "graduation" as far as schools go. What he "needs" is stuff he's already doing
on his own so there won't be any trouble completing those credits (if we are going to go
that route). But I found myself wondering whether it would be meaningful for him or not.
The biggest change for us in the last few weeks is that he has become clearer about what
his future employment will be and is working hard on that (video gaming) now. He
dropped a class, dropped a sport and is giving lots of time to computers and learning
Klingon. :)
We are invited to a graduation planning meeting for next year for his peer group of
homeschoolers and it got me thinking about whether that is even relevant for him. I
wondered if closure of any kind is necessary.
Thanks! (I'd be interested in other opinions as well.)
Julie
We have had a combination of schooling (as you know) and have only unschooled in
earnest for a year. Perhaps the best way to handle it is to ask him what he wants. When I
added up credits, I found that he (as a mid year junior technically) is only 1 and a half
credits from "graduation" as far as schools go. What he "needs" is stuff he's already doing
on his own so there won't be any trouble completing those credits (if we are going to go
that route). But I found myself wondering whether it would be meaningful for him or not.
The biggest change for us in the last few weeks is that he has become clearer about what
his future employment will be and is working hard on that (video gaming) now. He
dropped a class, dropped a sport and is giving lots of time to computers and learning
Klingon. :)
We are invited to a graduation planning meeting for next year for his peer group of
homeschoolers and it got me thinking about whether that is even relevant for him. I
wondered if closure of any kind is necessary.
Thanks! (I'd be interested in other opinions as well.)
Julie
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> I used to think we should do something graduationish for Kirby's 18th
> birthday, but Keith and I talked about it, and it might seem like we were "graduating
> him" from being our kid, and we don't want to do that.
>
> His learning isn't finished. His living at home could have been finished
> sooner if he had wanted to move out (he isn't "staying here to finish high
> school"), but he's not ready to move out.
>
> When he was little and unschooling seemed more like an academic-area school
> alternative, I always figured we would mark the end of it somehow, but now that
> he's 17 and would be graduating if he had gone to school, it doesn't seem
> that in the absence of school he is finishing something. He will know he would
> have been out of school, but the kids he hangs around with range in age and
> educational placement from mid-school to grad-school and various ages of people
> not defined by school at all, so he isn't at all out of place in that group,
> nor will he be later.
>
> Some of his homeschooled friends have already taken some classes at the
> university or the local trades college (which has lots of first-year
> English/math/science stuff that can transfer to UNM), but Kirby hasn't had need or
interest.
> Some of them have full-time jobs already; Kirby has a part time job and
> teaches at the karate dojo where he studies.
>
> It seems at this point that having a ceremony would be inappropriate, kind of
> like interrupting kids while they're doing something really useful and
> intriguing and asking them to do something arbitrary. It would seem arbitrary, and
> disruptive.
>
> We should talk to him about whether he wants to mark turning 18 in some
> special way, but I would want to make clear that he doesn't need to move out.
>
> But to the direct question, I don't consider him to be "in high school," I
> consider him not to have been in school, and there's no graduation from that
> unless it would be to GO to school.
>
> Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/17/2004 9:34:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,
julie@... writes:
<<And if you do, do you celebrate that event? (Diploma of any kind, ceremony,
party, dinner
out for recognition of high school completion...)>>
This has been on my mind a lot lately, and I'd like to hear others' opinions
too. NY state requires that you list a grade level for your kid each year.
This year Emily (15yo) is listed as a senior. She has unschooled in academics
for the last 5 years, but the year before that she attended ps in 7th grade at
10yo.
We have always loosely categorized what she does into subjects for school
district paperwork. I consider her an *adult* in our home, and she is very
mature for her age. She really wants some kind of recognition for graduation. We
do not know of any other unschoolers in our area, and all the school-at-homers
we know make a big deal out of graduation. (Caps and gown, diplomas,
parties, presents) Emily doesn't want to be left out, but she also realizes that we
don't see learning as something that you graduate from. (although I'd be
happy to celebrate no more state paperwork for her <g>)
I guess I want to do something big for her this year because this is what she
wants...but I don't want to set a precedent of thinking that graduation is a
big deal in my other, entirely unschooled, children.
Any thoughts?
--Jacqueline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
julie@... writes:
<<And if you do, do you celebrate that event? (Diploma of any kind, ceremony,
party, dinner
out for recognition of high school completion...)>>
This has been on my mind a lot lately, and I'd like to hear others' opinions
too. NY state requires that you list a grade level for your kid each year.
This year Emily (15yo) is listed as a senior. She has unschooled in academics
for the last 5 years, but the year before that she attended ps in 7th grade at
10yo.
We have always loosely categorized what she does into subjects for school
district paperwork. I consider her an *adult* in our home, and she is very
mature for her age. She really wants some kind of recognition for graduation. We
do not know of any other unschoolers in our area, and all the school-at-homers
we know make a big deal out of graduation. (Caps and gown, diplomas,
parties, presents) Emily doesn't want to be left out, but she also realizes that we
don't see learning as something that you graduate from. (although I'd be
happy to celebrate no more state paperwork for her <g>)
I guess I want to do something big for her this year because this is what she
wants...but I don't want to set a precedent of thinking that graduation is a
big deal in my other, entirely unschooled, children.
Any thoughts?
--Jacqueline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/17/2004 11:21:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ivorygrace7@... writes:
I guess I want to do something big for her this year because this is what she
wants...but I don't want to set a precedent of thinking that graduation is a
big deal in my other, entirely unschooled, children.
Any thoughts?
If you want to detach your celebration from a "graduation" point of view,
turning 16 (which I assume she will be doing this year) in a great time to
celebrate a young lady's life achievements.
My oldest had a sweet 16 party, a very formal affair (because she likes that
sort of thing), engraved invitations a sit down dinner in the ball room at the
Officers Club at Quantico, very formal, very Sarah like. She had about 100
friends and family and she had a GREAT time, the kids danced the night away and
she said she felt like a princess.
Each family member said a certain something about a particular year in her
life and lit a candle in remembrance of that year, and then Sarah lit the last
candle because she was lighting the path to her uncharted future with all the
loved ones and friends surrounding her and supporting her on her journey.
My youngest girl turns 16 this year, we are still in the planning stages.
She LOVED Sarah's party, but she's exploring other options. When she decides,
I'll make it happen for her.
If your child is older, you can still do a celebration of the child's life,
just because you are happy they are your child and a part of your family.
My oldest boy who went to public school sporadically during high school and
left in Oct. of what would have been his 12 year, expressed some regrets about
not getting a diploma. ( probably more of a regret that he saw lots of cash
and checks coming in the mail to the younger boy who was graduating from public
school).
So for his 21st birthday, we planned a big trip to Myrtle Beach, SC, fishing,
the beach, all the things he liked. We had a house with lots of friends and
family, we were celebrating Matthew's importance in our life with friends and
family. On our last night there, his father and I took him to dinner and I
gave him a "diploma". I ordered it offline. You could make them yourself, but
this was an official signed with a seal and presented in a leather folder,
just like the public school ones. It had his name and date and my name as
administrator and his dad's as principal. He loved it. The two small laminated
cards have come in handy when for jobs he's had to show he's a high school
graduate (but not according to our State).
There are lots of ways to celebrate our children, probably just asking your
child some questions will point you in the right direction, unless it's a child
like my Cait who changes her mind every other week!
Oh, and I guess I need to add that none of these celebrations that we've had
for our children made them feel like it was time to leave home. They know I
would not be celebrating them leaving. Even though to my kids it was a joyous
time when the two older ones moved out on their own, and I WAS happy FOR them,
I was VERY sad for me, certainly not in a party throwing kind of mood!
best of luck as you decide.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ivorygrace7@... writes:
I guess I want to do something big for her this year because this is what she
wants...but I don't want to set a precedent of thinking that graduation is a
big deal in my other, entirely unschooled, children.
Any thoughts?
If you want to detach your celebration from a "graduation" point of view,
turning 16 (which I assume she will be doing this year) in a great time to
celebrate a young lady's life achievements.
My oldest had a sweet 16 party, a very formal affair (because she likes that
sort of thing), engraved invitations a sit down dinner in the ball room at the
Officers Club at Quantico, very formal, very Sarah like. She had about 100
friends and family and she had a GREAT time, the kids danced the night away and
she said she felt like a princess.
Each family member said a certain something about a particular year in her
life and lit a candle in remembrance of that year, and then Sarah lit the last
candle because she was lighting the path to her uncharted future with all the
loved ones and friends surrounding her and supporting her on her journey.
My youngest girl turns 16 this year, we are still in the planning stages.
She LOVED Sarah's party, but she's exploring other options. When she decides,
I'll make it happen for her.
If your child is older, you can still do a celebration of the child's life,
just because you are happy they are your child and a part of your family.
My oldest boy who went to public school sporadically during high school and
left in Oct. of what would have been his 12 year, expressed some regrets about
not getting a diploma. ( probably more of a regret that he saw lots of cash
and checks coming in the mail to the younger boy who was graduating from public
school).
So for his 21st birthday, we planned a big trip to Myrtle Beach, SC, fishing,
the beach, all the things he liked. We had a house with lots of friends and
family, we were celebrating Matthew's importance in our life with friends and
family. On our last night there, his father and I took him to dinner and I
gave him a "diploma". I ordered it offline. You could make them yourself, but
this was an official signed with a seal and presented in a leather folder,
just like the public school ones. It had his name and date and my name as
administrator and his dad's as principal. He loved it. The two small laminated
cards have come in handy when for jobs he's had to show he's a high school
graduate (but not according to our State).
There are lots of ways to celebrate our children, probably just asking your
child some questions will point you in the right direction, unless it's a child
like my Cait who changes her mind every other week!
Oh, and I guess I need to add that none of these celebrations that we've had
for our children made them feel like it was time to leave home. They know I
would not be celebrating them leaving. Even though to my kids it was a joyous
time when the two older ones moved out on their own, and I WAS happy FOR them,
I was VERY sad for me, certainly not in a party throwing kind of mood!
best of luck as you decide.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Huh! Someone asked for something I had saved, and this happened to be in
that file, from 13 months ago:
Keith and I were out grocery shopping, and talking about Kirby turning
seventeen this year. I said I used to want to have a big eighteenth birthday
celebration for him, like a graduation, but I no longer want to do that. I
don't want to declare an end to his learning, nor to his living with us if he
wants to stay. Keith said he had no ideas either, but that was fine. Said
"Well, I'm not going to get him drunk and take him to a whorehouse, so
there's probably going to be no rite of passage."
Kirby wouldn't want any of that anyway. ANOTHER good thing. When he turns
eighteen, he'll have more legal rights, but there won't be the effect of huge
tension released. He'll have no restrictions suddenly lifted.
--------
Sandra
that file, from 13 months ago:
Keith and I were out grocery shopping, and talking about Kirby turning
seventeen this year. I said I used to want to have a big eighteenth birthday
celebration for him, like a graduation, but I no longer want to do that. I
don't want to declare an end to his learning, nor to his living with us if he
wants to stay. Keith said he had no ideas either, but that was fine. Said
"Well, I'm not going to get him drunk and take him to a whorehouse, so
there's probably going to be no rite of passage."
Kirby wouldn't want any of that anyway. ANOTHER good thing. When he turns
eighteen, he'll have more legal rights, but there won't be the effect of huge
tension released. He'll have no restrictions suddenly lifted.
--------
Sandra
pam sorooshian
On Feb 17, 2004, at 6:32 AM, Julie Bogart wrote:
school completion" to celebrate since they don't do high school.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> And if you do, do you celebrate that event? (Diploma of any kind,Our kids just slip gradually into young adulthood - there is no "high
> ceremony, party, dinner
> out for recognition of high school completion...)
school completion" to celebrate since they don't do high school.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], "Gerard Westenberg" <westen@b...>
wrote:
from! lol! So, going on to university study has happened gradually and so has working and
its all been gradual life changes. Instead, we celebrated 18th and 21st birthdays in bigger
ways..Made more sense to my older kids. I guess a lot of it depends on the kids.......Leonie
Can you share more about how your kids have gone off to college gradually? And working
too? This is something I can see happening in some way, but I am trying to wrap my mind
around it. There are cautions from every quarter about how students will not finish if they
don't start with a full load and that scholarship moneys aren't avaialbe to part time
students. etc., etc.
But the idea of one or two classes at a time really appeals to me. I'm in grad school one
class at a time and am loving it for that reason! I'm LEARNING! (Instead of cramming)
So how is it working for your kids? Any insights, observations would be appreciated.
Julie
wrote:
> I guess our thoughts have been similar to Sandra's thoughts. IOW, we haven't had anyformal graduation as they haven't been 'school;ng" - just living life. Nothing to graduate
from! lol! So, going on to university study has happened gradually and so has working and
its all been gradual life changes. Instead, we celebrated 18th and 21st birthdays in bigger
ways..Made more sense to my older kids. I guess a lot of it depends on the kids.......Leonie
>Leonie, hi! Great to "see" you.
Can you share more about how your kids have gone off to college gradually? And working
too? This is something I can see happening in some way, but I am trying to wrap my mind
around it. There are cautions from every quarter about how students will not finish if they
don't start with a full load and that scholarship moneys aren't avaialbe to part time
students. etc., etc.
But the idea of one or two classes at a time really appeals to me. I'm in grad school one
class at a time and am loving it for that reason! I'm LEARNING! (Instead of cramming)
So how is it working for your kids? Any insights, observations would be appreciated.
Julie
Norma
--- In [email protected], "Julie Bogart"
<>There are cautions from every quarter about how students will not
finish if they don't start with a full load and that scholarship
moneys aren't avaialbe to part time students. etc., etc.<>
Julie:
Hi. Who needs scholarship money when by using the credit-by-
examination, internship, portfolio presentation, and other non-
traditional college options, one can earn a fully accredited four-
year college degree for under $5,000, in less than two years?
<>But the idea of one or two classes at a time really appeals to me.
I'm in grad school one class at a time and am loving it for that
reason! I'm LEARNING! (Instead of cramming)<>
But is most of that learning going on in the classroom, or during the
time you are reading and studying and researching, thinking, on your
own?
<>So how is it working for your kids? Any insights, observations
would be appreciated.<>
My daughter who is 16 is using credit-by-examination right now,
planning to earn about 30 college credits before she has reached the
age when the state can't regulate her (beyond compulsory attendance
age). She is working on taking the five CLEP exams this spring, then
has plans for some AP and some DANTES (DSST) exams next year. Then
she might just go on to work and study independently to take GRE
exams which can earn from 3-30 college credits each. In the meantime
she is now the sole teen at an adult ceramics studio, working on her
designs and skills, is starting drawing classes at a wonderful studio
nearby, and is working on jewelry making skills with two individuals
we know. Since her college major was to be in art she feels she is
already doing what she wants and is less and less inclined to "go to"
college.
Last summer, at 15, she was accepted in and granted a scholarship to
attend a pre-college program at Earlham College where she earned
college credit for a raku ceramics course there. She loved this
course and the college and was very gung-ho about going there. She
still loves this college, but time and her experiences with credit-by-
examination have given her some perspective. She now questions
whether sitting around in classrooms and spending four years of her
life in the small college town where Earlham is located, or in any
other college town, is what she really wants to do.
She knows she has other options, and some very good options, too.
And she also knows she can do what she wants, have a great deal more
freedom, for much less money, if she writes her own ticket. She will
end up with a college degree, but she may choose to do it "her way."
At this point she is getting lots of pressure from friends who each
want her to go where they are going; to Earlham, to a good art
school, to a college in Boston, or to a college near where we live.
But she is getting more convinced that she doesn't want to do any of
those things, but rather to put together her own package, combining
credit-by-examination, independent study and internships, portfolio
presentations, private instruction, and perhaps a few on-campus
courses here and there, if she finds some she can't resist. She is
also using MIT's Open Course Ware courses for some independent study
work. So many options, so little time!
I am impressed that she has pulled this together all by herself, and
is forming her own package, just as she has done with the rest of her
education. This will give her much more freedom to be who she is and
to do all the things she loves, not just a few while she is busy
filling required course work at some high-priced college. The most
impressive thing of all is that her independent decisions have now
drifted over to her dad who is thinking of getting paralegal
credentials, on his own. Now that's real "child-led" learning, with
the child leading the way, being the role model, and the parent
following!
Norma
<>There are cautions from every quarter about how students will not
finish if they don't start with a full load and that scholarship
moneys aren't avaialbe to part time students. etc., etc.<>
Julie:
Hi. Who needs scholarship money when by using the credit-by-
examination, internship, portfolio presentation, and other non-
traditional college options, one can earn a fully accredited four-
year college degree for under $5,000, in less than two years?
<>But the idea of one or two classes at a time really appeals to me.
I'm in grad school one class at a time and am loving it for that
reason! I'm LEARNING! (Instead of cramming)<>
But is most of that learning going on in the classroom, or during the
time you are reading and studying and researching, thinking, on your
own?
<>So how is it working for your kids? Any insights, observations
would be appreciated.<>
My daughter who is 16 is using credit-by-examination right now,
planning to earn about 30 college credits before she has reached the
age when the state can't regulate her (beyond compulsory attendance
age). She is working on taking the five CLEP exams this spring, then
has plans for some AP and some DANTES (DSST) exams next year. Then
she might just go on to work and study independently to take GRE
exams which can earn from 3-30 college credits each. In the meantime
she is now the sole teen at an adult ceramics studio, working on her
designs and skills, is starting drawing classes at a wonderful studio
nearby, and is working on jewelry making skills with two individuals
we know. Since her college major was to be in art she feels she is
already doing what she wants and is less and less inclined to "go to"
college.
Last summer, at 15, she was accepted in and granted a scholarship to
attend a pre-college program at Earlham College where she earned
college credit for a raku ceramics course there. She loved this
course and the college and was very gung-ho about going there. She
still loves this college, but time and her experiences with credit-by-
examination have given her some perspective. She now questions
whether sitting around in classrooms and spending four years of her
life in the small college town where Earlham is located, or in any
other college town, is what she really wants to do.
She knows she has other options, and some very good options, too.
And she also knows she can do what she wants, have a great deal more
freedom, for much less money, if she writes her own ticket. She will
end up with a college degree, but she may choose to do it "her way."
At this point she is getting lots of pressure from friends who each
want her to go where they are going; to Earlham, to a good art
school, to a college in Boston, or to a college near where we live.
But she is getting more convinced that she doesn't want to do any of
those things, but rather to put together her own package, combining
credit-by-examination, independent study and internships, portfolio
presentations, private instruction, and perhaps a few on-campus
courses here and there, if she finds some she can't resist. She is
also using MIT's Open Course Ware courses for some independent study
work. So many options, so little time!
I am impressed that she has pulled this together all by herself, and
is forming her own package, just as she has done with the rest of her
education. This will give her much more freedom to be who she is and
to do all the things she loves, not just a few while she is busy
filling required course work at some high-priced college. The most
impressive thing of all is that her independent decisions have now
drifted over to her dad who is thinking of getting paralegal
credentials, on his own. Now that's real "child-led" learning, with
the child leading the way, being the role model, and the parent
following!
Norma
Gerard Westenberg
I guess our thoughts have been similar to Sandra's thoughts. IOW, we haven't had any formal graduation as they haven't been 'school;ng" - just living life. Nothing to graduate from! lol! So, going on to university study has happened gradually and so has working and its all been gradual life changes. Instead, we celebrated 18th and 21st birthdays in bigger ways..Made more sense to my older kids. I guess a lot of it depends on the kids.......Leonie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], "Norma" <tessimal@y...> wrote:
in my field of sutdy and felt I hit a wall in my thinking. Having classroom lectures from
scholars in the field as well as the in-class check and balance of discussion and cross-
experiences has taken me to the next level. I've benefitted greatly from my instructors
expertise and also their challenges to my thinking. My reading and study at home have
become far more meaningful as a result.
I wouldn't trade this experience for anything.
It's the very reason I *didn't* do an online MA and opted for the in-class sort. I also
appreciate the the university I chose is reputable in its field. The professors are truly gifts
in my life.
What I like better in my graduate program than undergraduate studies is the pace is more
reasonable, I'm focused on a narrower field of study and the valuable interaction of
professors and students.
where she wants to go.
appreciate it.
Julie
>I'll have to look into this more seriously.
> Hi. Who needs scholarship money when by using the credit-by-
> examination, internship, portfolio presentation, and other non-
> traditional college options, one can earn a fully accredited four-
> year college degree for under $5,000, in less than two years?
>Oh definitely in the classroom. I had been learning independently for the last three years
> <>But the idea of one or two classes at a time really appeals to me.
> I'm in grad school one class at a time and am loving it for that
> reason! I'm LEARNING! (Instead of cramming)<>
>
> But is most of that learning going on in the classroom, or during the
> time you are reading and studying and researching, thinking, on your
> own?
in my field of sutdy and felt I hit a wall in my thinking. Having classroom lectures from
scholars in the field as well as the in-class check and balance of discussion and cross-
experiences has taken me to the next level. I've benefitted greatly from my instructors
expertise and also their challenges to my thinking. My reading and study at home have
become far more meaningful as a result.
I wouldn't trade this experience for anything.
It's the very reason I *didn't* do an online MA and opted for the in-class sort. I also
appreciate the the university I chose is reputable in its field. The professors are truly gifts
in my life.
What I like better in my graduate program than undergraduate studies is the pace is more
reasonable, I'm focused on a narrower field of study and the valuable interaction of
professors and students.
>I can really see this. She sounds like she has a clear idea of who she is and how to get to
> <>So how is it working for your kids? Any insights, observations
> would be appreciated.<>
>
> My daughter who is 16 is using credit-by-examination right now,
> planning to earn about 30 college credits before she has reached the
> age when the state can't regulate her (beyond compulsory attendance
> age). She is working on taking the five CLEP exams this spring, then
> has plans for some AP and some DANTES (DSST) exams next year. Then
> she might just go on to work and study independently to take GRE
> exams which can earn from 3-30 college credits each. In the meantime
> she is now the sole teen at an adult ceramics studio, working on her
> designs and skills, is starting drawing classes at a wonderful studio
> nearby, and is working on jewelry making skills with two individuals
> we know. Since her college major was to be in art she feels she is
> already doing what she wants and is less and less inclined to "go to"
> college.
where she wants to go.
> But she is getting more convinced that she doesn't want to do any ofLOL.
> those things, but rather to put together her own package, combining
> credit-by-examination, independent study and internships, portfolio
> presentations, private instruction, and perhaps a few on-campus
> courses here and there, if she finds some she can't resist. She is
> also using MIT's Open Course Ware courses for some independent study
> work. So many options, so little time!
>Isn't that cool? thanks for sharing a vision of what the alternative may look like. I
> I am impressed that she has pulled this together all by herself, and
> is forming her own package, just as she has done with the rest of her
> education. This will give her much more freedom to be who she is and
> to do all the things she loves, not just a few while she is busy
> filling required course work at some high-priced college. The most
> impressive thing of all is that her independent decisions have now
> drifted over to her dad who is thinking of getting paralegal
> credentials, on his own. Now that's real "child-led" learning, with
> the child leading the way, being the role model, and the parent
> following!
appreciate it.
Julie
pam sorooshian
At 13, almost 14, Roya applied to Cypress Community College under their
"Concurrent Enrollment" program. She had to have her school sign the
form saying she could "benefit from college level work." I signed it.
She took a voice class. She's a singin' kid and a voice class was great
for a first class for her. I scoped out the teacher in advance (just
looked at the schedule, went to one of her classes and stood outside
the door for a while, listening). She had a great experience and the
next semester did the same thing, but added a psychology class. Then
she joined the debate team and a performance singing group. And took a
ceramics course. Each semester we had to reapply for the "concurrent
enrollment" program. She took ceramics every semester - including
summer. When she was 16 her ceramics instructor suggested her for a job
opening at Laguna Clay Company, and she was hired. She worked on
Saturdays only for a while, but eventually they wanted her to work more
hours and gave her increasing responsibilities. She worked there for a
couple of years, branched out at the community college, taking pretty
much whatever caught her fancy.
At almost 19, she took one semester off, quit her job, spent all her
savings traveling around the country for 6 months.
Now she's back, taking a full course load including Spanish, Marine
Biology, and Math, filling in the general education requirements she
needs to transfer to a University of California campus. She's got a job
in the college ceramics lab, just 10 hours per week. When she completes
her general ed requirements, during the summer, she is planning to take
off a full year, this time, before transferring to a University as a
junior.
My second daughter also took a voice class as her first course, at 14,
then the following couple of semesters took voice as well as some
computer classes. She also took a history of opera course. Her primary
involvement at the college has been to audition for and get parts in
their musicals and taking theater courses. She is now 16 and is taking
tap dancing and musical theater techniques this semester.
My third daughter is now 13 and currently has no interest in community
college courses - she is very involved with 4H, soccer, Girl Scouts,
and her Dungeons and Dragons games. If she starts college early and
gets into it gradually, it'll probably be by taking dance classes, to
start with.
-pam
"Concurrent Enrollment" program. She had to have her school sign the
form saying she could "benefit from college level work." I signed it.
She took a voice class. She's a singin' kid and a voice class was great
for a first class for her. I scoped out the teacher in advance (just
looked at the schedule, went to one of her classes and stood outside
the door for a while, listening). She had a great experience and the
next semester did the same thing, but added a psychology class. Then
she joined the debate team and a performance singing group. And took a
ceramics course. Each semester we had to reapply for the "concurrent
enrollment" program. She took ceramics every semester - including
summer. When she was 16 her ceramics instructor suggested her for a job
opening at Laguna Clay Company, and she was hired. She worked on
Saturdays only for a while, but eventually they wanted her to work more
hours and gave her increasing responsibilities. She worked there for a
couple of years, branched out at the community college, taking pretty
much whatever caught her fancy.
At almost 19, she took one semester off, quit her job, spent all her
savings traveling around the country for 6 months.
Now she's back, taking a full course load including Spanish, Marine
Biology, and Math, filling in the general education requirements she
needs to transfer to a University of California campus. She's got a job
in the college ceramics lab, just 10 hours per week. When she completes
her general ed requirements, during the summer, she is planning to take
off a full year, this time, before transferring to a University as a
junior.
My second daughter also took a voice class as her first course, at 14,
then the following couple of semesters took voice as well as some
computer classes. She also took a history of opera course. Her primary
involvement at the college has been to audition for and get parts in
their musicals and taking theater courses. She is now 16 and is taking
tap dancing and musical theater techniques this semester.
My third daughter is now 13 and currently has no interest in community
college courses - she is very involved with 4H, soccer, Girl Scouts,
and her Dungeons and Dragons games. If she starts college early and
gets into it gradually, it'll probably be by taking dance classes, to
start with.
-pam
On Feb 18, 2004, at 6:00 AM, Julie Bogart wrote:
> But the idea of one or two classes at a time really appeals to me. I'm
> in grad school one
> class at a time and am loving it for that reason! I'm LEARNING!
> (Instead of cramming)
>
> So how is it working for your kids? Any insights, observations would
> be appreciated.
>
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Norma
--- In [email protected], "Julie Bogart"
<julie@b...> wrote:
<>Oh definitely in the classroom. I had been learning independently
for the last three years in my field of sutdy and felt I hit a wall
in my thinking. Having classroom lectures from scholars in the field
as well as the in-class check and balance of discussion and cross-
experiences has taken me to the next level. I've benefitted greatly
from my instructors expertise and also their challenges to my
thinking. My reading and study at home have become far more
meaningful as a result. I wouldn't trade this experience for
anything.<>
Julie:
That's great if you are finding classes satisfying, even inspiring.
I look back on my years in undergrad and grad school and find that
the most memorable experiences and the ones that have stuck with me
for 30-40 years of my life after college, were the experiences I had
outside the classroom. These included my volunteer involvement in
groups, in political action, in specific interests I developed on my
own, in jobs I took to earn money. I could recall only a handful of
classroom situations that were significant for me, in the long run.
<>What I like better in my graduate program than undergraduate
studies is the pace is more reasonable, I'm focused on a narrower
field of study and the valuable interaction of professors and
students.<>
What I like best about doing certain studies on my own, for jobs that
I took, is that the pace was realistic, was real life based, not
class or semester based. For example, I supported myself for years
as a journalist, though I never took a single journalism course in
high school or college. But I knew I could write. So when I applied
for a job in journalism I simply submitted some sample articles and
took whatever assignments they gave me, learning by the seat of my
pants, bridging the manual typewriter age into the computer and IT
age during my career. The best lesson I learned about journalism was
that nothing mattered more, in most cases, than the amount of space
that my story would be allowed to take in the publication. The
deciding element was column inches or word count over content most of
the time. Even if the story was about life and death. And I learned
to meet deadlines while brutally chopping down and editing my own
copy to fit the space the editor was willing to give me. I learned
that I could do interviews over the phone or over the internet, but
that the in-person interview was almost always much better for me,
that I could sometimes get three different stories/sales out of an in-
person interview.
<>I can really see this. She sounds like she has a clear idea of who
she is and how to get to where she wants to go.<>
Well, clear for today, and ever-changing, adapting, adjusting to new
information. My daughter also works and has found she learns a great
deal in each job she has taken, if only that she has narrowed down
her fields of interest by eliminating those that just don't appeal to
her at all when she is really out there working in that field. She
has learned a great deal about workplace politics and dealing with
supervisory and subordinate workplace personnel, and accompanying
stresses, life lessons that will stay with her. She has observed
that many of the problems with any career are people problems, not
the work itself. These are important lessons for anyone. She has
discovered that the same work, done in different places, can be very
different, as far as enjoyment and job satisfaction go. And she has
learned that many work skills are best learned on-the-job. But then
she is more right-brained than left, and more kinesthetic, learning
by doing, than auditory or visual. So different strokes for
different folks, right?
Norma
<julie@b...> wrote:
<>Oh definitely in the classroom. I had been learning independently
for the last three years in my field of sutdy and felt I hit a wall
in my thinking. Having classroom lectures from scholars in the field
as well as the in-class check and balance of discussion and cross-
experiences has taken me to the next level. I've benefitted greatly
from my instructors expertise and also their challenges to my
thinking. My reading and study at home have become far more
meaningful as a result. I wouldn't trade this experience for
anything.<>
Julie:
That's great if you are finding classes satisfying, even inspiring.
I look back on my years in undergrad and grad school and find that
the most memorable experiences and the ones that have stuck with me
for 30-40 years of my life after college, were the experiences I had
outside the classroom. These included my volunteer involvement in
groups, in political action, in specific interests I developed on my
own, in jobs I took to earn money. I could recall only a handful of
classroom situations that were significant for me, in the long run.
<>What I like better in my graduate program than undergraduate
studies is the pace is more reasonable, I'm focused on a narrower
field of study and the valuable interaction of professors and
students.<>
What I like best about doing certain studies on my own, for jobs that
I took, is that the pace was realistic, was real life based, not
class or semester based. For example, I supported myself for years
as a journalist, though I never took a single journalism course in
high school or college. But I knew I could write. So when I applied
for a job in journalism I simply submitted some sample articles and
took whatever assignments they gave me, learning by the seat of my
pants, bridging the manual typewriter age into the computer and IT
age during my career. The best lesson I learned about journalism was
that nothing mattered more, in most cases, than the amount of space
that my story would be allowed to take in the publication. The
deciding element was column inches or word count over content most of
the time. Even if the story was about life and death. And I learned
to meet deadlines while brutally chopping down and editing my own
copy to fit the space the editor was willing to give me. I learned
that I could do interviews over the phone or over the internet, but
that the in-person interview was almost always much better for me,
that I could sometimes get three different stories/sales out of an in-
person interview.
<>I can really see this. She sounds like she has a clear idea of who
she is and how to get to where she wants to go.<>
Well, clear for today, and ever-changing, adapting, adjusting to new
information. My daughter also works and has found she learns a great
deal in each job she has taken, if only that she has narrowed down
her fields of interest by eliminating those that just don't appeal to
her at all when she is really out there working in that field. She
has learned a great deal about workplace politics and dealing with
supervisory and subordinate workplace personnel, and accompanying
stresses, life lessons that will stay with her. She has observed
that many of the problems with any career are people problems, not
the work itself. These are important lessons for anyone. She has
discovered that the same work, done in different places, can be very
different, as far as enjoyment and job satisfaction go. And she has
learned that many work skills are best learned on-the-job. But then
she is more right-brained than left, and more kinesthetic, learning
by doing, than auditory or visual. So different strokes for
different folks, right?
Norma
Tracey Inman
>At 13, almost 14, Roya applied to Cypress Community College under their"Concurrent Enrollment" program. She had to have her school sign the
form saying she could "benefit from college level work." I signed it.<
I am new to this homeschooling/Unschooling and have probably a silly
question....But here goes:
When you enrolled your daughter did they ask for transcripts or anything? I
have a daughter who's passion is drawing/painting and horse training.
Infact, she stayed up all night last night finishing her painting. At 11 I
and others think she is really incredible. I really want to help lead her
in a direction that will enable this gift to grow. She really wants to sell
some of her drawings and I am trying to put feelers out on how to do this.
I think she could probably get some money for some of them. Any suggestions
will be welcomed.
Tracey
Tracey Inman
Legacy for Life
336.580.1844
http://TraceyInman.com
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[email protected]
tessimal@... writes:
cleanly. For me it would be like trying to separate out the ways my parents
influenced me into their nature and their nurture, trying to say exactly which
contributed what to who I am today.
I can speculate but I don't really know. I do know that it's all a
part of me now, part of the "arc of my life I look back on," like in The World
According to Garp.
To me formal study, especially by the graduate school level, is meant
to integrate with all the other influences on your thinking and your life. The
better it is, the harder it is to tell what difference it made. It's
interactive and personal. Like unschooling! :)
Maybe it's because I was always studying something or other formally,
at the same time I was having my life. But that's how I see it, and how I hope
my unschooling kids will see it looking back. :) JJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> That's great if you are finding classes satisfying, even inspiring.I find it impossible to separate out formal and informal learning this
> I look back on my years in undergrad and grad school and find that
> the most memorable experiences and the ones that have stuck with me
> for 30-40 years of my life after college, were the experiences I had
> outside the classroom. These included my volunteer involvement in
> groups, in political action, in specific interests I developed on my
> own, in jobs I took to earn money. I could recall only a handful of
> classroom situations that were significant for me, in the long run.
>
cleanly. For me it would be like trying to separate out the ways my parents
influenced me into their nature and their nurture, trying to say exactly which
contributed what to who I am today.
I can speculate but I don't really know. I do know that it's all a
part of me now, part of the "arc of my life I look back on," like in The World
According to Garp.
To me formal study, especially by the graduate school level, is meant
to integrate with all the other influences on your thinking and your life. The
better it is, the harder it is to tell what difference it made. It's
interactive and personal. Like unschooling! :)
Maybe it's because I was always studying something or other formally,
at the same time I was having my life. But that's how I see it, and how I hope
my unschooling kids will see it looking back. :) JJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J. Stauffer
Suggestions for budding artists:
Enter county shows with them, homemaking fairs, let others see her talent.
What about apprenticeing with an artist? What about the painting lessons at
like Hobby Lobby?
My 86yo grandmother is an artist. She taught herself through correspondence
courses (she was the wife of a ranch hand and they always lived way out in
the boonies)and later through that guy on PBS. Eventually, she took a class
here or there.
Now Granny supports herself giving lessons, selling her paintings and doing
custom work. She has painted backgrounds for museums, even the side of a
tour bus for a country singer.
I love going to her house because you find little pieces of magic
everywhere. Her bathroom in her studio has wood paneling. She knocked out
one of the knotholes and put a picture of an eye back there. You are
sitting on the pot and suddenly become aware of this eye looking at you
through the hole. Lots of first timers come out squealing.
She painted a beautiful mountain scene in the window panes of her garage.
She painted her toilet so it looks like marble. One time she got bored and
painted her pickup with a brush. You just never know and I love that about
her.
Good luck to your daughter.
Enter county shows with them, homemaking fairs, let others see her talent.
What about apprenticeing with an artist? What about the painting lessons at
like Hobby Lobby?
My 86yo grandmother is an artist. She taught herself through correspondence
courses (she was the wife of a ranch hand and they always lived way out in
the boonies)and later through that guy on PBS. Eventually, she took a class
here or there.
Now Granny supports herself giving lessons, selling her paintings and doing
custom work. She has painted backgrounds for museums, even the side of a
tour bus for a country singer.
I love going to her house because you find little pieces of magic
everywhere. Her bathroom in her studio has wood paneling. She knocked out
one of the knotholes and put a picture of an eye back there. You are
sitting on the pot and suddenly become aware of this eye looking at you
through the hole. Lots of first timers come out squealing.
She painted a beautiful mountain scene in the window panes of her garage.
She painted her toilet so it looks like marble. One time she got bored and
painted her pickup with a brush. You just never know and I love that about
her.
Good luck to your daughter.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tracey Inman" <traceyinman@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 7:11 AM
Subject: RE: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Do you graduate your kids from high
school?
>
> >At 13, almost 14, Roya applied to Cypress Community College under their
> "Concurrent Enrollment" program. She had to have her school sign the
> form saying she could "benefit from college level work." I signed it.<
>
> I am new to this homeschooling/Unschooling and have probably a silly
> question....But here goes:
>
> When you enrolled your daughter did they ask for transcripts or anything?
I
> have a daughter who's passion is drawing/painting and horse training.
> Infact, she stayed up all night last night finishing her painting. At 11
I
> and others think she is really incredible. I really want to help lead her
> in a direction that will enable this gift to grow. She really wants to
sell
> some of her drawings and I am trying to put feelers out on how to do this.
> I think she could probably get some money for some of them. Any
suggestions
> will be welcomed.
>
> Tracey
>
>
>
> Tracey Inman
> Legacy for Life
> 336.580.1844
> http://TraceyInman.com
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 2/18/2004
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Elizabeth Roberts
What about renting a booth at a local craft fair? Or...photograph the paintings and put together a webpage offering them for sale?
MamaBeth
Tracey Inman <traceyinman@...> wrote:
form saying she could "benefit from college level work." I signed it.<
I am new to this homeschooling/Unschooling and have probably a silly
question....But here goes:
When you enrolled your daughter did they ask for transcripts or anything? I
have a daughter who's passion is drawing/painting and horse training.
Infact, she stayed up all night last night finishing her painting. At 11 I
and others think she is really incredible. I really want to help lead her
in a direction that will enable this gift to grow. She really wants to sell
some of her drawings and I am trying to put feelers out on how to do this.
I think she could probably get some money for some of them. Any suggestions
will be welcomed.
Tracey
Tracey Inman
Legacy for Life
336.580.1844
http://TraceyInman.com
---
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
MamaBeth
Tracey Inman <traceyinman@...> wrote:
>At 13, almost 14, Roya applied to Cypress Community College under their"Concurrent Enrollment" program. She had to have her school sign the
form saying she could "benefit from college level work." I signed it.<
I am new to this homeschooling/Unschooling and have probably a silly
question....But here goes:
When you enrolled your daughter did they ask for transcripts or anything? I
have a daughter who's passion is drawing/painting and horse training.
Infact, she stayed up all night last night finishing her painting. At 11 I
and others think she is really incredible. I really want to help lead her
in a direction that will enable this gift to grow. She really wants to sell
some of her drawings and I am trying to put feelers out on how to do this.
I think she could probably get some money for some of them. Any suggestions
will be welcomed.
Tracey
Tracey Inman
Legacy for Life
336.580.1844
http://TraceyInman.com
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gerard Westenberg
<<I am impressed that she has pulled this together all by herself, and
is forming her own package, just as she has done with the rest of her
education.>>>
Yes, this has been the process that my older three have taken - not so much with speciific course or career goals in mind but by investigating options and courses of interest. They didn' t do this all by themsleves - still don' t - as with many things here it became a co-operative effort - I would see items in the newspaper or online about alternative entry to uni and pass it on; someone else would tell of a possible volunteer or paid position that was opening up. That sort of thing.
I don' t know if our direct experiences would be of use to you, Julie, as we live in Australia and the part time and external study options are pretty much accepted here - with the fee deferrment scheme applicable to all these options. My older boys have elcted to do a number of their courses externally or online, where possible, as it fits their personal rhythms ( sleep in late!) and their paid work/volunteer work schedules....Leonie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
is forming her own package, just as she has done with the rest of her
education.>>>
Yes, this has been the process that my older three have taken - not so much with speciific course or career goals in mind but by investigating options and courses of interest. They didn' t do this all by themsleves - still don' t - as with many things here it became a co-operative effort - I would see items in the newspaper or online about alternative entry to uni and pass it on; someone else would tell of a possible volunteer or paid position that was opening up. That sort of thing.
I don' t know if our direct experiences would be of use to you, Julie, as we live in Australia and the part time and external study options are pretty much accepted here - with the fee deferrment scheme applicable to all these options. My older boys have elcted to do a number of their courses externally or online, where possible, as it fits their personal rhythms ( sleep in late!) and their paid work/volunteer work schedules....Leonie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], jrossedd@a... wrote:
hormones play too big a role in undergraduate programs. learning about love and
sexuality is far more compelling than West African tbial warfare histories, kwim? :)
But as a grad student in my forties, I'm so appreciative of the scholarship of those who've
put in years of learning so that they can unpack the information and findings in their field
in a meaningful way.
hese included my volunteer involvement in
We don't have positive classroom learning experiences to draw on.
I still contend that teaching combined with the ability to study for oneself is the most
effective way to learn (whether that learning comes through a terrific coach in baseball,
throwing pots with a professional cermaics artist or going to grad school in a good
program).
through a progression of materials helpful. I was learning a lot on my own, but I started
finding that all those I spoke with (I read lots of books with others on line) agreed with
me... and that wasn't enough. I knew there were whole schools and disciplines of thought
associated with my field of study that I couldn't uncover on my own, wouldn't discover on
my own.
So perhaps that's what makes grad school so satisfying. And it helps that the other
students enjoy being there and come to class prepared (unlike most undergraduate
programs).
education conducted by teachers. But it seems to me that whether we self-educate use a
tutor do an apprenticeship or take a college course, the goal is the subject evaluation of
whether or not learniing is happening - learning that is meaningful to the student, not just
a list of courses to be crossed off for a degree.
Julie B
> tessimal@y... writes:This was truer for me after my undergread studies in my twenties. I have a hunch that
>
>
> > That's great if you are finding classes satisfying, even inspiring.
> > I look back on my years in undergrad and grad school and find that
> > the most memorable experiences and the ones that have stuck with me
> > for 30-40 years of my life after college, were the experiences I had
> > outside the classroom. T
hormones play too big a role in undergraduate programs. learning about love and
sexuality is far more compelling than West African tbial warfare histories, kwim? :)
But as a grad student in my forties, I'm so appreciative of the scholarship of those who've
put in years of learning so that they can unpack the information and findings in their field
in a meaningful way.
hese included my volunteer involvement in
> > groups, in political action, in specific interests I developed on myThat is sad to me and yet also, I understand it too. It's the reason so many of us unschool.
> > own, in jobs I took to earn money. I could recall only a handful of
> > classroom situations that were significant for me, in the long run.
> >
We don't have positive classroom learning experiences to draw on.
I still contend that teaching combined with the ability to study for oneself is the most
effective way to learn (whether that learning comes through a terrific coach in baseball,
throwing pots with a professional cermaics artist or going to grad school in a good
program).
>That's how I feel about it. And I honestly find the routine of meeting weekly and working
>
> I find it impossible to separate out formal and informal learning this
> cleanly. For me it would be like trying to separate out the ways my parents
> influenced me into their nature and their nurture, trying to say exactly which
> contributed what to who I am today.
through a progression of materials helpful. I was learning a lot on my own, but I started
finding that all those I spoke with (I read lots of books with others on line) agreed with
me... and that wasn't enough. I knew there were whole schools and disciplines of thought
associated with my field of study that I couldn't uncover on my own, wouldn't discover on
my own.
So perhaps that's what makes grad school so satisfying. And it helps that the other
students enjoy being there and come to class prepared (unlike most undergraduate
programs).
> To me formal study, especially by the graduate school level, is meantExactly! One of the ideological dangers (imo) of unschooling is to be suspicious of all
> to integrate with all the other influences on your thinking and your life. The
> better it is, the harder it is to tell what difference it made. It's
> interactive and personal. Like unschooling! :)
education conducted by teachers. But it seems to me that whether we self-educate use a
tutor do an apprenticeship or take a college course, the goal is the subject evaluation of
whether or not learniing is happening - learning that is meaningful to the student, not just
a list of courses to be crossed off for a degree.
>Me too. good email.
> Maybe it's because I was always studying something or other formally,
> at the same time I was having my life. But that's how I see it, and how I hope
> my unschooling kids will see it looking back. :) JJ
Julie B
Norma
--- In [email protected], jrossedd@a... wrote:
formally, at the same time I was having my life. But that's how I see
it, and how I hope my unschooling kids will see it looking back. :)<>
JJ:
You obviously never tried to sit through a required class that spent
ten weeks exclusively on "The Rape of the Lock," by Alexander Pope.
Suffice it to say that I cannot remember a single line from that
poem. The good news is that this class convinced me that I was
definitely in the wrong graduate program and I switched from English
Literature to Philosopohy the next session.
My test of what counted is what I remember. I can remember tiny
little details from jobs I held in high school, details that have
stuck with me for 40+ years since. I remember hours and hours spent
in the law library doing high school debate team research. But I can
only remember a few lectures from college, and very few instructors,
by name or by anything significant they imparted to me.
On the other hand I vividly recall trying to go over a jump on my
horse, blindfolded, bareback, with my arms folded in front of me at
13. I remember my jumping instructor's face and voice very well, and
that was 45 years ago. I remember ski instructors from that same
period and how they taught me to challenge gravity by leaning down
the slope. I remember art and my art teacher from elementary
school. I remember weaving at my harness loom in the basement of one
of my grade school buildings, a reward granted when we completed our
work quickly. I remember my debate coach from high school, and one
literature teacher who did some amazing things to inspire a lifelong
love of Shakespeare. I remember my high school algebra teacher who
threw the book at me, literally, all the way across the room. I also
remember being stunned to learn that I had scored in the 97th
percentile on mathematical aptitude in college after being convinced
by this algebra teacher that I was a total loser at math.
I remember some Sanskrit poetry from an undergrad course on
comparative literature. I remember one education psychology speaker
who stood on the table and spoke about how he'd been designated as
having an IQ two points above a rock, basically, but had, through his
own perseverence and determination, earned a PhD in Educational
Psychology. I remember the chain-smoking philosophy professor and
how the ashes fell from his cigarettes as he paced back and forth in
front of the epistomology class. That class inspired me to write
great poetry. I remember the creative writing professor who made
sexual advances on me then gave me a D because I refused his
advances. I remember the department chairman who, learning of this
right before I graduated, changed that D to a B. I worked in the
department office so he knew me well and knew my writing abilities.
That was back in the days of paper records and punch cards.
I remember tiny details about the coffee house I helped run in
undergrad and grad school; the designs carved into the tables made of
wire spools, the finicky sound system, the long nights spent with the
cadre of anti-establishment friends and folk musicians who helped run
the place, the smell of the spiced cider we served.
I have a good memory for anything that registered as important to me,
but I remember little from my college classes, very little indeed. I
remember many things about activities in which I was involved, and
people with whom I made friends, and life lessons that still sustain
me, but only snippets of anything that I sat through for all those
hours to earn degrees.
Unschooling was an easy transition for me, since it was all too clear
that structured institutionalized learning had held little import in
my real life. Not the "becoming" life of a coed, when one was
supposed to identify oneself by one's major and what one was going to
be someday. But my real life, the one where I am who am in the here
and now, not in some abstract becoming.
Norma
> tessimal@y... writes:<>Maybe it's because I was always studying something or other
formally, at the same time I was having my life. But that's how I see
it, and how I hope my unschooling kids will see it looking back. :)<>
JJ:
You obviously never tried to sit through a required class that spent
ten weeks exclusively on "The Rape of the Lock," by Alexander Pope.
Suffice it to say that I cannot remember a single line from that
poem. The good news is that this class convinced me that I was
definitely in the wrong graduate program and I switched from English
Literature to Philosopohy the next session.
My test of what counted is what I remember. I can remember tiny
little details from jobs I held in high school, details that have
stuck with me for 40+ years since. I remember hours and hours spent
in the law library doing high school debate team research. But I can
only remember a few lectures from college, and very few instructors,
by name or by anything significant they imparted to me.
On the other hand I vividly recall trying to go over a jump on my
horse, blindfolded, bareback, with my arms folded in front of me at
13. I remember my jumping instructor's face and voice very well, and
that was 45 years ago. I remember ski instructors from that same
period and how they taught me to challenge gravity by leaning down
the slope. I remember art and my art teacher from elementary
school. I remember weaving at my harness loom in the basement of one
of my grade school buildings, a reward granted when we completed our
work quickly. I remember my debate coach from high school, and one
literature teacher who did some amazing things to inspire a lifelong
love of Shakespeare. I remember my high school algebra teacher who
threw the book at me, literally, all the way across the room. I also
remember being stunned to learn that I had scored in the 97th
percentile on mathematical aptitude in college after being convinced
by this algebra teacher that I was a total loser at math.
I remember some Sanskrit poetry from an undergrad course on
comparative literature. I remember one education psychology speaker
who stood on the table and spoke about how he'd been designated as
having an IQ two points above a rock, basically, but had, through his
own perseverence and determination, earned a PhD in Educational
Psychology. I remember the chain-smoking philosophy professor and
how the ashes fell from his cigarettes as he paced back and forth in
front of the epistomology class. That class inspired me to write
great poetry. I remember the creative writing professor who made
sexual advances on me then gave me a D because I refused his
advances. I remember the department chairman who, learning of this
right before I graduated, changed that D to a B. I worked in the
department office so he knew me well and knew my writing abilities.
That was back in the days of paper records and punch cards.
I remember tiny details about the coffee house I helped run in
undergrad and grad school; the designs carved into the tables made of
wire spools, the finicky sound system, the long nights spent with the
cadre of anti-establishment friends and folk musicians who helped run
the place, the smell of the spiced cider we served.
I have a good memory for anything that registered as important to me,
but I remember little from my college classes, very little indeed. I
remember many things about activities in which I was involved, and
people with whom I made friends, and life lessons that still sustain
me, but only snippets of anything that I sat through for all those
hours to earn degrees.
Unschooling was an easy transition for me, since it was all too clear
that structured institutionalized learning had held little import in
my real life. Not the "becoming" life of a coed, when one was
supposed to identify oneself by one's major and what one was going to
be someday. But my real life, the one where I am who am in the here
and now, not in some abstract becoming.
Norma
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/19/04 10:25:36 AM, julie@... writes:
<< learning about love and
sexuality is far more compelling than West African tbial warfare histories,
kwim? :) >>
Some people do both.
There was an African guy in our dorm with BEAUTIFUL facial scarification. I
had to force myself not to stare at it and I really wanted to touch it, but I
didn't want to "know" him quite that well, as I had a boyfriend from India.
Sandra
<< learning about love and
sexuality is far more compelling than West African tbial warfare histories,
kwim? :) >>
Some people do both.
There was an African guy in our dorm with BEAUTIFUL facial scarification. I
had to force myself not to stare at it and I really wanted to touch it, but I
didn't want to "know" him quite that well, as I had a boyfriend from India.
Sandra
pam sorooshian
On Feb 19, 2004, at 5:11 AM, Tracey Inman wrote:
them in later, and never did. They never asked again.
However, I know people who have needed transcripts for community
colleges and they write "narrative transcripts."
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> I am new to this homeschooling/Unschooling and have probably a sillyIn our case, they said transcripts were required, we said we'd turn
> question....But here goes:
>
> When you enrolled your daughter did they ask for transcripts or
> anything?
them in later, and never did. They never asked again.
However, I know people who have needed transcripts for community
colleges and they write "narrative transcripts."
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Tracey Inman
>In our case, they said transcripts were required, we said we'd turnthem in later, and never did. They never asked again.
However, I know people who have needed transcripts for community
colleges and they write "narrative transcripts."<
-pam
Thank you for all the responses. I am going to start checking on some
fairs, Hobby Lobby, etc for my budding artist. And maybe I will be lucky
enough to not have to write that narrative transript! :-) I have to stop
and remember to breathe most days so not to panic. I try to remind myself I
am doing what I feel is best in spite of the input my mother and mother
in-law like to so freely give. Like last night for instance....My mother
in-law informs me she is not seeing anything the girls are writing. (we are
temporarily living with my in-laws during our transition) She goes on the
let me know that my 8 year doesn't do as well as the 8 year old she tutors
and how pitiful my Madison is because she isn't up to speed with the public
school. I added the public school thing she just stopped at she was
pitiful. Now to completely understand the situation, she is a Pre-K/5-K
teacher in a public Montessori school and my mother is a retired school
teacher. UGH! Of course no one saw me and my 11yo up until 1 a.m. last
night trying to decode some crazy computer game that used all the grammar
skills because my daughter couldn't stop until she figured it out! Thanks
for letting me spill this morning, I needed to air somewhere.
This group has been so good for me. I appreciate your honesty and your
realness.
Tracey
Tracey Inman
Legacy for Life
336.580.1844
http://TraceyInman.com
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Norma
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
Here it would be important to read your state's laws or regulations
carefully to see if this is required, is spelled out in them. In our
state this is not required, so if a superintendent asked for this
type of thing we would strongly suggest that home educators print out
a copy of the regs, mail them or hand them to the superintendent, and
ask him or her to please indicate (cite chapter and verse) precisely
where the regs say that. In other words we would ask the educators
to cite chapter and verse. It turns out we often end up educating
the educators this way. But if we are prepared, know the regs, keep
copies at the ready, then we may smooth the path for the next home
educator.
As for transcripts, I had to prepare a modified narrative transcript
for my daughter when she applied to attend a summer pre-college
program last year at 15. I used one of the free transcript templates
available on the web, filled it in with all the information
appropriate to her curriculum, what she had done. Since we were also
applying for a scholarship I made sure that I attached complete
information on all of her "extracurricular" activities, too (though
we clearly do not think of these as extracurricular). The college
asked for SAT or ACT scores and instead I submitted a brief letter
explaining why we do not participate in this type of testing. They
also requested letters from her teachers and a guidance counselor. I
offered to write these, but suggested that since I am
teacher/mother/guidance counselor that this might get a little
redundant. I never heard another word about test scores or letters.
She not only was accepted but was granted a full scholarship. And
she loved her experience in this summer program at this liberal arts
college ranked as one of the top ten for non-conformists (Earlham
College).
This may not work at all colleges, but then perhaps the ones where it
wouldn't work are not the ones an unschooled teen would really want
to attend. I figured we had nothing to lose. If the school got all
uptight about these requirements, then we would know some important
things about that school. If they did not, and Earlham College
clearly did not, then we would know we were on the right track.
Norma
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
>silly
> On Feb 19, 2004, at 5:11 AM, Tracey Inman wrote:
>
> > I am new to this homeschooling/Unschooling and have probably a
> > question....But here goes:Tracey:
> >
> > When you enrolled your daughter did they ask for transcripts or
> > anything?
Here it would be important to read your state's laws or regulations
carefully to see if this is required, is spelled out in them. In our
state this is not required, so if a superintendent asked for this
type of thing we would strongly suggest that home educators print out
a copy of the regs, mail them or hand them to the superintendent, and
ask him or her to please indicate (cite chapter and verse) precisely
where the regs say that. In other words we would ask the educators
to cite chapter and verse. It turns out we often end up educating
the educators this way. But if we are prepared, know the regs, keep
copies at the ready, then we may smooth the path for the next home
educator.
As for transcripts, I had to prepare a modified narrative transcript
for my daughter when she applied to attend a summer pre-college
program last year at 15. I used one of the free transcript templates
available on the web, filled it in with all the information
appropriate to her curriculum, what she had done. Since we were also
applying for a scholarship I made sure that I attached complete
information on all of her "extracurricular" activities, too (though
we clearly do not think of these as extracurricular). The college
asked for SAT or ACT scores and instead I submitted a brief letter
explaining why we do not participate in this type of testing. They
also requested letters from her teachers and a guidance counselor. I
offered to write these, but suggested that since I am
teacher/mother/guidance counselor that this might get a little
redundant. I never heard another word about test scores or letters.
She not only was accepted but was granted a full scholarship. And
she loved her experience in this summer program at this liberal arts
college ranked as one of the top ten for non-conformists (Earlham
College).
This may not work at all colleges, but then perhaps the ones where it
wouldn't work are not the ones an unschooled teen would really want
to attend. I figured we had nothing to lose. If the school got all
uptight about these requirements, then we would know some important
things about that school. If they did not, and Earlham College
clearly did not, then we would know we were on the right track.
Norma
Tracey Inman
Thank you Norma for your input. Our state really doesn't have any strict
regulations. I journal everyday on what each child has done that day so if
I should need back up I have it. Luckily our state does not require any
standardized testing at the end of the year. Perhaps the journal I keep
will help me in the future for transcript needs, etc.
Tracey
Tracey Inman
Legacy for Life
336.580.1844
http://TraceyInman.com
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regulations. I journal everyday on what each child has done that day so if
I should need back up I have it. Luckily our state does not require any
standardized testing at the end of the year. Perhaps the journal I keep
will help me in the future for transcript needs, etc.
Tracey
Tracey Inman
Legacy for Life
336.580.1844
http://TraceyInman.com
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 2/18/2004