Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] unschooling math and saxon WAS Re: Intro and My o...
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I had the weirdest feeling one day not too long ago when I realized how much
math my 12yro son had learned the past few years with absolutely no effort on
my part, we have had lots of conversations but I was only answering what he
was asking or explaining something he asked about. It was one of those aha
moments but also scary in a way. I had went my whole life being convinced that we
needed math taught to us, that math comes in a book and if we don't teach it
that way then we won't learn it. It was a moment when a lot of what I thought to
be true was really shaken to the core, in a very good way, like the clouds
parted I and could see the truth. But it was also one of those moments that I
kept thinking how can this be, is this true, does he really know what I think he
knows, how did he get to this and so on.
That is a lot of words to try to describe what happened in a very short time
but that is really how it happened. Then I wondered if the people spending all
of the time teaching math or any other subject know the real truth or do they
really believe it needs to be taught that way.
It was an "is this real moment", can this be real when it goes against
everything I had thought up to then. It still leaves me shaken.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
math my 12yro son had learned the past few years with absolutely no effort on
my part, we have had lots of conversations but I was only answering what he
was asking or explaining something he asked about. It was one of those aha
moments but also scary in a way. I had went my whole life being convinced that we
needed math taught to us, that math comes in a book and if we don't teach it
that way then we won't learn it. It was a moment when a lot of what I thought to
be true was really shaken to the core, in a very good way, like the clouds
parted I and could see the truth. But it was also one of those moments that I
kept thinking how can this be, is this true, does he really know what I think he
knows, how did he get to this and so on.
That is a lot of words to try to describe what happened in a very short time
but that is really how it happened. Then I wondered if the people spending all
of the time teaching math or any other subject know the real truth or do they
really believe it needs to be taught that way.
It was an "is this real moment", can this be real when it goes against
everything I had thought up to then. It still leaves me shaken.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
That is a lot of words to try to describe what happened in a very short time
but that is really how it happened. Then I wondered if the people spending all
of the time teaching math or any other subject know the real truth or do they
really believe it needs to be taught that way.
******************************
I had exactly the same experience. I have Saxon books and we would dabble here and there, as my anxiety meter would go up.
Well, after a year or 2 of not doing anything, my anxiety got the best of me and I got out the saxon 7/6 book again. I picked problems from various portions of the book and we did them orally. Low and behold he did them all in his head, even problems with negative numbers, percents, etc.
He can even do some algebra.
It was quite an eye opener for me too to realize that math does *not* need to be learned linear fashion. That is yet one more sacred cow of the education industry.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
but that is really how it happened. Then I wondered if the people spending all
of the time teaching math or any other subject know the real truth or do they
really believe it needs to be taught that way.
******************************
I had exactly the same experience. I have Saxon books and we would dabble here and there, as my anxiety meter would go up.
Well, after a year or 2 of not doing anything, my anxiety got the best of me and I got out the saxon 7/6 book again. I picked problems from various portions of the book and we did them orally. Low and behold he did them all in his head, even problems with negative numbers, percents, etc.
He can even do some algebra.
It was quite an eye opener for me too to realize that math does *not* need to be learned linear fashion. That is yet one more sacred cow of the education industry.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wife2Vegman
--- Have a Nice Day! <litlrooh@...> wrote:
I think the eye-opener for me is not that math doesn't
need to be learned from books, but that it will still
be learned.
I kind of had this idea that when we started
unschooling that maybe higher math just "wasn't
important" and that they wouldn't learn it, but I
needed to be ok with that.
People kept saying, "if the child needs to know it,
they will learn it", and I took that to mean that
unless my kids decided to be doctors or scientists or
engineers, they would never have a reason to learn
higher math so probably wouldn't.
Now I am realizing that it will be learned, and better
and more deeply. I don't have to accept that math
won't be learned; I was resigning my kids to a less
rich knowledge (in my thinking) because I didn't
understand.
Does that make sense? I mean, higher math isn't
something separate from their world right now, where
they are, and they are already in the process of
learning what they will need as well as what they need
right now.
Oh well, if I am being obtuse then I better stop
rambling. I am sure someone will clarify this so that
you will know what I mean.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
http://theeclectichomeschooler.homestead.com/TheEclecticHomeshooler.html
__________________________________
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>Yes!
> It was quite an eye opener for me too to realize
> that math does *not* need to be learned linear
> fashion. That is yet one more sacred cow of the
> education industry.
>
> Kristen
I think the eye-opener for me is not that math doesn't
need to be learned from books, but that it will still
be learned.
I kind of had this idea that when we started
unschooling that maybe higher math just "wasn't
important" and that they wouldn't learn it, but I
needed to be ok with that.
People kept saying, "if the child needs to know it,
they will learn it", and I took that to mean that
unless my kids decided to be doctors or scientists or
engineers, they would never have a reason to learn
higher math so probably wouldn't.
Now I am realizing that it will be learned, and better
and more deeply. I don't have to accept that math
won't be learned; I was resigning my kids to a less
rich knowledge (in my thinking) because I didn't
understand.
Does that make sense? I mean, higher math isn't
something separate from their world right now, where
they are, and they are already in the process of
learning what they will need as well as what they need
right now.
Oh well, if I am being obtuse then I better stop
rambling. I am sure someone will clarify this so that
you will know what I mean.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
http://theeclectichomeschooler.homestead.com/TheEclecticHomeshooler.html
__________________________________
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[email protected]
In a message dated 2/12/04 9:06:47 AM, BonKnit@... writes:
<< That is a lot of words to try to describe what happened in a very short
time
but that is really how it happened. Then I wondered if the people spending
all
of the time teaching math or any other subject know the real truth or do they
really believe it needs to be taught that way.
as they have test scores on those kids in their schools they know they're not
"rare geniuses."
When people grow up in school and like school and continue on by becoming
part of it by staying in school and then immediately teaching in school (as I
did) it woudn't be hard to just live there for life, certain that it's good and
real and right and the only salvation of an ignorant world.
What messed that comforting continuum up for me was that it was the 60's/70's
and school reform was rampant, and I fell into a period at the University of
New Mexico when school reformers were the main part of the faculty at the
college of education.
That shouldn't have mattered, since I was an English major and studying
psychology and anthropology/folklore secondarily. But guess what? It really got
to me, because what they were saying was borne out by the classes on thinking
and learning and communications I was taking, and by the stories of how
cultures are passed on I was hearing in the anthropology department, and the things
I knew that were making my English classes easier were things I had learned on
my own for fun. History of words, historical forms of English (King James
Bible English helped me more in Shakespeare than anything else did, and they
sure hand't taught me any of that in school OR really in church, I'd figured it
out because I thought it was cool).
So... If teachers have the opportunity to isolate themselves in the happy
belief that they only know their own subject because they learned it in school
and they're doing the world a favor by maintaining that unbroken line of trad
ition, then they will sleep better and probably digest better (thinking back to
that shared sit-down dinner thread <g>).
They probably REALLY do not want to know that kids can learn those things
painlessly and in other orders. It's okay for us not to tell them yet. Let
them be happy for now. <g>
I think we should keep running our "experiment" and let the schools be. A
few years down the line, we might give them cause to pause, when our kids are
grown and will be heard, as adults, to say "I learned to read on my own," and
"Math isn't hard if you figure out it from real-life situations."
Sandra
<< That is a lot of words to try to describe what happened in a very short
time
but that is really how it happened. Then I wondered if the people spending
all
of the time teaching math or any other subject know the real truth or do they
really believe it needs to be taught that way.
>>I think they believe it's necessary except in the cases of rare genius, and
as they have test scores on those kids in their schools they know they're not
"rare geniuses."
When people grow up in school and like school and continue on by becoming
part of it by staying in school and then immediately teaching in school (as I
did) it woudn't be hard to just live there for life, certain that it's good and
real and right and the only salvation of an ignorant world.
What messed that comforting continuum up for me was that it was the 60's/70's
and school reform was rampant, and I fell into a period at the University of
New Mexico when school reformers were the main part of the faculty at the
college of education.
That shouldn't have mattered, since I was an English major and studying
psychology and anthropology/folklore secondarily. But guess what? It really got
to me, because what they were saying was borne out by the classes on thinking
and learning and communications I was taking, and by the stories of how
cultures are passed on I was hearing in the anthropology department, and the things
I knew that were making my English classes easier were things I had learned on
my own for fun. History of words, historical forms of English (King James
Bible English helped me more in Shakespeare than anything else did, and they
sure hand't taught me any of that in school OR really in church, I'd figured it
out because I thought it was cool).
So... If teachers have the opportunity to isolate themselves in the happy
belief that they only know their own subject because they learned it in school
and they're doing the world a favor by maintaining that unbroken line of trad
ition, then they will sleep better and probably digest better (thinking back to
that shared sit-down dinner thread <g>).
They probably REALLY do not want to know that kids can learn those things
painlessly and in other orders. It's okay for us not to tell them yet. Let
them be happy for now. <g>
I think we should keep running our "experiment" and let the schools be. A
few years down the line, we might give them cause to pause, when our kids are
grown and will be heard, as adults, to say "I learned to read on my own," and
"Math isn't hard if you figure out it from real-life situations."
Sandra
pam sorooshian
On Feb 12, 2004, at 9:21 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
school for 20 years and now teaches a class at the community college.
Roya asked her a question about something - saying "In my last math
class we were shown to do whateveritis "this" way and now you're
showing us "a different" way. Can you explain the difference?"
The teacher LITERALLY said: "That was Math 100 and this is Math 120 and
this is how we do it in Math 120." As if that was an explanation.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> When people grow up in school and like school and continue on byRoya has a college math teacher who is like that. She taught high
> becoming
> part of it by staying in school and then immediately teaching in
> school (as I
> did) it woudn't be hard to just live there for life, certain that it's
> good and
> real and right and the only salvation of an ignorant world.
school for 20 years and now teaches a class at the community college.
Roya asked her a question about something - saying "In my last math
class we were shown to do whateveritis "this" way and now you're
showing us "a different" way. Can you explain the difference?"
The teacher LITERALLY said: "That was Math 100 and this is Math 120 and
this is how we do it in Math 120." As if that was an explanation.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Lisa H
<<<I have Saxon books and we would dabble here and there, as my anxiety meter would go up.
Well, after a year or 2 of not doing anything, my anxiety got the best of me and I got out the saxon 7/6 book again. I picked problems from various portions of the book and we did them orally. Low and behold he did them all in his head, even problems with negative numbers, percents, etc.
He can even do some algebra.>>
We are having a similar experience with reading in our house. I liked how you put it...when the anxiety meter goes up...and in our case I had to respond to my husbands anxiety about us "not doing anything" about reading. My daughter, husband and i agreed together that she would "work from a book." At first she enjoyed the new activity. Then would get bored. Then it became my asking her to do it. And when i found myself pushing the issue - we dropped it. Fortunately my dh was OK with this as well. A year would go by and anxiety meter would go up so dd and i found another style book to "work" with. Low and behold her understanding of the concepts were moving right along. Without any "structured" activity. We've done this off and on for many years. When she wants to "work" from a book, or dh anx. meter rises - every time we "do" something specific towards reading I notice the leap in her understanding.
It helps my dh a lot when i forward many of your posts to him.
Lisa H.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well, after a year or 2 of not doing anything, my anxiety got the best of me and I got out the saxon 7/6 book again. I picked problems from various portions of the book and we did them orally. Low and behold he did them all in his head, even problems with negative numbers, percents, etc.
He can even do some algebra.>>
We are having a similar experience with reading in our house. I liked how you put it...when the anxiety meter goes up...and in our case I had to respond to my husbands anxiety about us "not doing anything" about reading. My daughter, husband and i agreed together that she would "work from a book." At first she enjoyed the new activity. Then would get bored. Then it became my asking her to do it. And when i found myself pushing the issue - we dropped it. Fortunately my dh was OK with this as well. A year would go by and anxiety meter would go up so dd and i found another style book to "work" with. Low and behold her understanding of the concepts were moving right along. Without any "structured" activity. We've done this off and on for many years. When she wants to "work" from a book, or dh anx. meter rises - every time we "do" something specific towards reading I notice the leap in her understanding.
It helps my dh a lot when i forward many of your posts to him.
Lisa H.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Priscilla Martinez
i plan on checking out all the sites and books . . . starting with sandra's homepage and john holt's learning all the time , but i've saved all your responses to me in a unique folder for my own personalized, instant, fast-acting jolt of reassurance!
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day,
that my child may have peace."
Thomas Paine
(1737-1809, Anglo-American political theorist and writer)
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day,
that my child may have peace."
Thomas Paine
(1737-1809, Anglo-American political theorist and writer)
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]