One's best theories (was- unlimited tv and computer time)
Alison Broadbent
From: SandraDodd@...>
(Taking Children Seriously, tcs.com), they call one's best theories. One of
their premises is that we're all fallible and that we're working on our best
theories that we've got at the time. They would agree and I agree that
helping our kids get what they want is a good thing but they would also add
that it's important to share one's best theories about something.
I was someone, who a year ago, on the unschooling,com listserv went through
a lot of consternation about tv. After listening and arguing w/ Sandra and
others, I was able to get out of my indoctrination about it and really could
see how my son (about 3 at the time) did not watch tv as a zombie but as
part of life going on about him. He was active in his watching, talking
doing other things simultaneously, discussing. The food thing was more
difficult bc no matter how much I made sure he was getting what he wanted to
eat, it was and continues to be so much sugar, with the words, "I want
candy" when he wakes up many mornings and throughout the day. I offer many
things along the way that I think he might like (things we might make, etc)
but nothing compares to store bought candy. I've gone months without saying
anything about it but now decided to share what I do think about it.
What I do is share my best theories about these thing. It's not that I
screw up my face and say dismissive things like, 'WHAT, another candy??'
Or a big sigh w/ the rolling of eyes. But I do share my thoughts about what
I believe eating that much candy might do to his body and what I perceive as
his reactions some hours down the line. Not every day or even every few
days but every once in a while. If he disagrees, I accept that he thinks
that and support him in getting what he wants and still like to keep the
discussion open.
The same thing with watching things on tv. Sometimes something's on and I
see the stars of the movies (kids) being callous and mean to other kids in
the name of cool. I mention that I don't like how they are with each
other. I don't say this movie sucks, how can you watch this drek but share
my perspective about it. I think this opens up conversations. I hear so
many talk about being hands off when it comes to children choosing programs
and never mentioning one's own thoughts about the shows.
Another one: My dh is a musician. My son loves rock and roll. My dh can't
even listen to it. It is jarring to his sensibilities. At first he would
say things like this is really bad music but I've got him to shift and talk
about what it is that is hard for him to hear and what he really likes in
music.
I'd love to hear what people have to say about sharing one's thoughts along
the way about these sorts of things. Maybe this is just a natural part of
one's life and we hear more on this list about not imposing one's ideas on
kids bc that's what so many of us have to get out of.
And btw, I'm new on this list. Hi.
Alison
> As long as mothers have the list of good things and the list of bad things,I've been thinking about the difference between this and what, in TCS
> of educational things and "fluff," of good and bad food, good and bad sleep
> schedules, good and bad music, books, art, it will affect children aversely in
> two ways I'm thinking of right off: it keeps them from going through the
> mental process of figuring out how THEY will decide what they like or need or
> can
> learn from; and it endangers the relationship between parent and child,
> because
> the parent is being judgmental of the child, and the child can lose respect
> for the parent's intellect, fairness, integrity, thoughtfulness and of her
> positive regard for her own child.
> That's a lot to risk just to tell a child that the magazine he likes sucks.
(Taking Children Seriously, tcs.com), they call one's best theories. One of
their premises is that we're all fallible and that we're working on our best
theories that we've got at the time. They would agree and I agree that
helping our kids get what they want is a good thing but they would also add
that it's important to share one's best theories about something.
I was someone, who a year ago, on the unschooling,com listserv went through
a lot of consternation about tv. After listening and arguing w/ Sandra and
others, I was able to get out of my indoctrination about it and really could
see how my son (about 3 at the time) did not watch tv as a zombie but as
part of life going on about him. He was active in his watching, talking
doing other things simultaneously, discussing. The food thing was more
difficult bc no matter how much I made sure he was getting what he wanted to
eat, it was and continues to be so much sugar, with the words, "I want
candy" when he wakes up many mornings and throughout the day. I offer many
things along the way that I think he might like (things we might make, etc)
but nothing compares to store bought candy. I've gone months without saying
anything about it but now decided to share what I do think about it.
What I do is share my best theories about these thing. It's not that I
screw up my face and say dismissive things like, 'WHAT, another candy??'
Or a big sigh w/ the rolling of eyes. But I do share my thoughts about what
I believe eating that much candy might do to his body and what I perceive as
his reactions some hours down the line. Not every day or even every few
days but every once in a while. If he disagrees, I accept that he thinks
that and support him in getting what he wants and still like to keep the
discussion open.
The same thing with watching things on tv. Sometimes something's on and I
see the stars of the movies (kids) being callous and mean to other kids in
the name of cool. I mention that I don't like how they are with each
other. I don't say this movie sucks, how can you watch this drek but share
my perspective about it. I think this opens up conversations. I hear so
many talk about being hands off when it comes to children choosing programs
and never mentioning one's own thoughts about the shows.
Another one: My dh is a musician. My son loves rock and roll. My dh can't
even listen to it. It is jarring to his sensibilities. At first he would
say things like this is really bad music but I've got him to shift and talk
about what it is that is hard for him to hear and what he really likes in
music.
I'd love to hear what people have to say about sharing one's thoughts along
the way about these sorts of things. Maybe this is just a natural part of
one's life and we hear more on this list about not imposing one's ideas on
kids bc that's what so many of us have to get out of.
And btw, I'm new on this list. Hi.
Alison
Elizabeth Hill
** So my best response to almost everything they choose
to do is, "GREAT!" with a smile and a hug.**
I don't so much say "GREAT" as I say "SURE". I can say "SURE" in a
warm and positive way, but it refrains from saying whether a particular
opinion is great or lousy.
Betsy
to do is, "GREAT!" with a smile and a hug.**
I don't so much say "GREAT" as I say "SURE". I can say "SURE" in a
warm and positive way, but it refrains from saying whether a particular
opinion is great or lousy.
Betsy
Wife2Vegman
--- Alison Broadbent <abzb@...> wrote:
I can't do this yet, don't know if I will ever be able
to.
See, we school-at-homered (DOH!) for so long, and
raised our kids according to the accepted Conservative
Christian model for many years, and the damage is
done.
If I try to "share my best theories" my older kids
immediately hear that their choice is "wrong" or "less
than" my preference, and they immediately say, "I'm
sorry mommy, I'll put the candy back" or whatever.
So since we are still healing from all the past junk,
I have to be very careful in how I share my opinions.
I can't even stop them and say, "do you think it is a
good idea to..." because they immediately know that if
I am asking, then I must think it is NOT a good idea.
So my best response to almost everything they choose
to do is, "GREAT!" with a smile and a hug.
The only time I exercise that power to offer my
opinion is when my 12yo might choose to watch
something that is too scarey for him, because he has
asked me to warn him. I only warn him once, though,
and never say, "Thou shalt not watch".
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
http://theeclectichomeschooler.homestead.com/TheEclecticHomeshooler.html
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
>Alison,
> I'd love to hear what people have to say about
> sharing one's thoughts along
> the way about these sorts of things. Maybe this is
> just a natural part of
> one's life and we hear more on this list about not
> imposing one's ideas on
> kids bc that's what so many of us have to get out
> of.
I can't do this yet, don't know if I will ever be able
to.
See, we school-at-homered (DOH!) for so long, and
raised our kids according to the accepted Conservative
Christian model for many years, and the damage is
done.
If I try to "share my best theories" my older kids
immediately hear that their choice is "wrong" or "less
than" my preference, and they immediately say, "I'm
sorry mommy, I'll put the candy back" or whatever.
So since we are still healing from all the past junk,
I have to be very careful in how I share my opinions.
I can't even stop them and say, "do you think it is a
good idea to..." because they immediately know that if
I am asking, then I must think it is NOT a good idea.
So my best response to almost everything they choose
to do is, "GREAT!" with a smile and a hug.
The only time I exercise that power to offer my
opinion is when my 12yo might choose to watch
something that is too scarey for him, because he has
asked me to warn him. I only warn him once, though,
and never say, "Thou shalt not watch".
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
http://theeclectichomeschooler.homestead.com/TheEclecticHomeshooler.html
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
J. Stauffer
<<<<<<< I mention that I don't like how they are with each
just with your kids, then you are judging the kids and their choices. It
becomes about tv's effects on your kids rather than about the character's
actions per se.
Dh watches stuff that I see little redeeming value in, some real low-brow
stuff. I may teasingly turn my nose up at it and go do something else. I
do the same thing with the kids. It is truly about the content of the
show....not about the effect it might have on the kids, but the effect it
has on me.
Just a thought.
Julie S.
> other. I don't say this movie sucks, how can you watch this drek butshare
> my perspective about it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My question would be do you do this with your dh? Or just your kids? If
just with your kids, then you are judging the kids and their choices. It
becomes about tv's effects on your kids rather than about the character's
actions per se.
Dh watches stuff that I see little redeeming value in, some real low-brow
stuff. I may teasingly turn my nose up at it and go do something else. I
do the same thing with the kids. It is truly about the content of the
show....not about the effect it might have on the kids, but the effect it
has on me.
Just a thought.
Julie S.
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/12/04 7:08:29 AM, abzb@... writes:
<< I've been thinking about the difference between this and what, in TCS
(Taking Children Seriously, tcs.com), they call one's best theories. >>
I try to maintain a clear separation between what we're doing when sharing
our unschooling lives, and what TCS is doing. Unless they've changed their
stance on telling real stories about real children, it just strikes me as
irritating theoretical political possibility, and I don't much like to hear about it.
Our focus here is practical and direct. How can we help children learn as
freely and as naturally as possible?
<<They would agree and I agree that
helping our kids get what they want is a good thing but they would also add
that it's important to share one's best theories about something.>>
Why can't they just say "communicate honestly with your children"?
Let's not mix their stuff with our stuff, if possible.
-=-"I want
candy" when he wakes up many mornings and throughout the day. -=-
If you beat him to it by waking him up and saying "I made pancakes!" he might
still say "I want candy" and you could say, "Okay, let's get some when we go
to the store" or "okay, after pancakes!"
If you say "what of all things in the world do you want?" that's not the same
as offering lots of cool things, letting him turn them down (if he can, after
he sees and smells them!) or not.
<<What I do is share my best theories about these thing. It's not that I
screw up my face and say dismissive things like, 'WHAT, another candy??'
Or a big sigh w/ the rolling of eyes. But I do share my thoughts about what
I believe eating that much candy might do to his body and what I perceive as
his reactions some hours down the line. >>
Does it help you to have candy you don't mind so much? PayDay bars? Granola
bars? Coconut squares? Peanut-butter balls?
Would it help to have really interesting food you DO think is good already
ready to go?
Holly's just waking up. I'm going to make her a scrambled egg sandwich. If
she doesn't want it, I'll eat it. If I say "Would you rather have scrambled
eggs or cereal?" it might matter it's warm scrambled eggs she can smell, or
theoretical future scrambled eggs.
<<The same thing with watching things on tv. Sometimes something's on and I
see the stars of the movies (kids) being callous and mean to other kids in
the name of cool. I mention that I don't like how they are with each
other. I don't say this movie sucks, how can you watch this drek but share
my perspective about it. >>
That can be done without discussing the movie as a movie.
You could say "A friend of mine did that one time, and I still feel bad about
it," or whatever's true and that you think is important for them to know.
Just yesterday I uttered the words "Kids at school are like that" to Marty
when he came back from driver's ed frustrated with the irritating behavior of
another kid who was sarcastic after a joke Marty made, and then picked on him
for the next hour and a half. I told him he was pretty lucky not to have
experienced that behavior before he was 15, that most kids get it from kindergarten
on.
<<I hear so
many talk about being hands off when it comes to children choosing programs
and never mentioning one's own thoughts about the shows.>>
If people can't tell the difference between polite, equal conversation and
manipulating shame, I think "hands off" is better than "whatever." But those
aren't the only two choices. Maybe they can learn how to communicate honestly
without trying to sway kids toward their own possibly-unreasonable prejudices.
<<Another one: My dh is a musician. My son loves rock and roll. My dh can't
even listen to it. It is jarring to his sensibilities. >>
This is a courtesy issue. If your son is not willing to keep it down when
his dad's home, or if the dad is trying to demand total r&r blockade in his
home, that's about living together compassionately, not about music.
Sandra
<< I've been thinking about the difference between this and what, in TCS
(Taking Children Seriously, tcs.com), they call one's best theories. >>
I try to maintain a clear separation between what we're doing when sharing
our unschooling lives, and what TCS is doing. Unless they've changed their
stance on telling real stories about real children, it just strikes me as
irritating theoretical political possibility, and I don't much like to hear about it.
Our focus here is practical and direct. How can we help children learn as
freely and as naturally as possible?
<<They would agree and I agree that
helping our kids get what they want is a good thing but they would also add
that it's important to share one's best theories about something.>>
Why can't they just say "communicate honestly with your children"?
Let's not mix their stuff with our stuff, if possible.
-=-"I want
candy" when he wakes up many mornings and throughout the day. -=-
If you beat him to it by waking him up and saying "I made pancakes!" he might
still say "I want candy" and you could say, "Okay, let's get some when we go
to the store" or "okay, after pancakes!"
If you say "what of all things in the world do you want?" that's not the same
as offering lots of cool things, letting him turn them down (if he can, after
he sees and smells them!) or not.
<<What I do is share my best theories about these thing. It's not that I
screw up my face and say dismissive things like, 'WHAT, another candy??'
Or a big sigh w/ the rolling of eyes. But I do share my thoughts about what
I believe eating that much candy might do to his body and what I perceive as
his reactions some hours down the line. >>
Does it help you to have candy you don't mind so much? PayDay bars? Granola
bars? Coconut squares? Peanut-butter balls?
Would it help to have really interesting food you DO think is good already
ready to go?
Holly's just waking up. I'm going to make her a scrambled egg sandwich. If
she doesn't want it, I'll eat it. If I say "Would you rather have scrambled
eggs or cereal?" it might matter it's warm scrambled eggs she can smell, or
theoretical future scrambled eggs.
<<The same thing with watching things on tv. Sometimes something's on and I
see the stars of the movies (kids) being callous and mean to other kids in
the name of cool. I mention that I don't like how they are with each
other. I don't say this movie sucks, how can you watch this drek but share
my perspective about it. >>
That can be done without discussing the movie as a movie.
You could say "A friend of mine did that one time, and I still feel bad about
it," or whatever's true and that you think is important for them to know.
Just yesterday I uttered the words "Kids at school are like that" to Marty
when he came back from driver's ed frustrated with the irritating behavior of
another kid who was sarcastic after a joke Marty made, and then picked on him
for the next hour and a half. I told him he was pretty lucky not to have
experienced that behavior before he was 15, that most kids get it from kindergarten
on.
<<I hear so
many talk about being hands off when it comes to children choosing programs
and never mentioning one's own thoughts about the shows.>>
If people can't tell the difference between polite, equal conversation and
manipulating shame, I think "hands off" is better than "whatever." But those
aren't the only two choices. Maybe they can learn how to communicate honestly
without trying to sway kids toward their own possibly-unreasonable prejudices.
<<Another one: My dh is a musician. My son loves rock and roll. My dh can't
even listen to it. It is jarring to his sensibilities. >>
This is a courtesy issue. If your son is not willing to keep it down when
his dad's home, or if the dad is trying to demand total r&r blockade in his
home, that's about living together compassionately, not about music.
Sandra
queenjane555
--- In [email protected], Alison Broadbent
<abzb@e...> wrote:
I don't have a problem sharing my opinion with my son about
"whatever", as long as i know its not a knee-jerk reaction on my
part. For example, your son and his candy for breakfast issue...are
you concerned because he is ONLY eating candy, and nothing else that
is nutritious? Or are you concerned because he is eating candy for
breakfast and that "just doesnt seem healthy" to you? I think there
is a difference there. On any given issue, there is usually so many
possible alternatives/resolutions...would making chocolate chip
pancakes, or putting candy sprinkles on his yogurt, satisfy his candy
craving? Would he be interested in learning to make his own candy?
I just saw Rachel Ray (a cook)on the food network make something that
most kids would looooove: Frozen bananas(stuck on popsicle sticks),
dipped in chocolate, then dipped on a variety of toppings of choice
(crushed nuts, chocolate sprinkles, shredded coconut, m and m's ,
whatever you want!)then refrozen for a time. They looked really
yummy.
If my son is making a decision, and i have information that would
help him make a more informed decision, i won't withhold that info,
of course! My son is growing out his (beautiful red)hair, because he
wants to have a mohawk this summer. He has wanted this for awhile
now, so i know its not passing phase. When/if the time comes that he
really does want to get the mohawk, i will talk with him about how
people in this area might react to such a haircut and let him know
that part of having a nontypical hairstyle means putting up with alot
of comments and negative feedback from strangers. Thats just reality.
But in giving him this opinion, it has *nothing* to do with my own
personal feelings...we have plenty of friends who have mohawks,
piercings, etc, and i myself have lots of visible, large tattoos(as
does Seamus' father, who is an anti-racist skinhead.)
I think giving information, an opinion, or alternatives is fine as
long as you aren't overly invested in the outcome, and really ok with
your child not following your advice or agreeing with you. And also
it helps to offer to give your opinion before giving the opinion
itself. I sometimes ask my son "do you want to know what i think of
xyz?" or "do you want to see a different way of doing that?"
Sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes no, and i respect that.
Katherine
<abzb@e...> wrote:
> I'd love to hear what people have to say about sharing one'sthoughts along
> the way about these sorts of things. Maybe this is just a naturalpart of
> one's life and we hear more on this list about not imposing one'sideas on
> kids bc that's what so many of us have to get out of.Hi Alison, welcome to the list! I'm new here as well...
>
> And btw, I'm new on this list. Hi.
>
> Alison
I don't have a problem sharing my opinion with my son about
"whatever", as long as i know its not a knee-jerk reaction on my
part. For example, your son and his candy for breakfast issue...are
you concerned because he is ONLY eating candy, and nothing else that
is nutritious? Or are you concerned because he is eating candy for
breakfast and that "just doesnt seem healthy" to you? I think there
is a difference there. On any given issue, there is usually so many
possible alternatives/resolutions...would making chocolate chip
pancakes, or putting candy sprinkles on his yogurt, satisfy his candy
craving? Would he be interested in learning to make his own candy?
I just saw Rachel Ray (a cook)on the food network make something that
most kids would looooove: Frozen bananas(stuck on popsicle sticks),
dipped in chocolate, then dipped on a variety of toppings of choice
(crushed nuts, chocolate sprinkles, shredded coconut, m and m's ,
whatever you want!)then refrozen for a time. They looked really
yummy.
If my son is making a decision, and i have information that would
help him make a more informed decision, i won't withhold that info,
of course! My son is growing out his (beautiful red)hair, because he
wants to have a mohawk this summer. He has wanted this for awhile
now, so i know its not passing phase. When/if the time comes that he
really does want to get the mohawk, i will talk with him about how
people in this area might react to such a haircut and let him know
that part of having a nontypical hairstyle means putting up with alot
of comments and negative feedback from strangers. Thats just reality.
But in giving him this opinion, it has *nothing* to do with my own
personal feelings...we have plenty of friends who have mohawks,
piercings, etc, and i myself have lots of visible, large tattoos(as
does Seamus' father, who is an anti-racist skinhead.)
I think giving information, an opinion, or alternatives is fine as
long as you aren't overly invested in the outcome, and really ok with
your child not following your advice or agreeing with you. And also
it helps to offer to give your opinion before giving the opinion
itself. I sometimes ask my son "do you want to know what i think of
xyz?" or "do you want to see a different way of doing that?"
Sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes no, and i respect that.
Katherine
Alison Broadbent
It's taken me a while to get to this. Sorry. Thanks to al who wrote.
I really know that feeling of realizing there's too much history to feel
confident in doing anything that even resembled the past. I also know that
before I've healed sufficiently from something and I go to the opposite end
of what I had been doing it's really just the opposite side of the same
coin.
I remember when I was dating. I had been hurt by what I thought was being
too open so decided to make a shift. I became a tough minded and
independent woman of the world. The trouble was, I was still the same
inside and I was either using my vulnerabilities to manipulate situations or
using my toughness to shield myself. When I was able to just say to myself,
'you know I'm really rather needy" which was until then one of the worst
things I thought one could possible be and something to run from at all
costs, I could w, not one month went
by and I met my dh. I remember the feeling of being so much more
comfortable w/ who I was not having to try to be something i wasn't. That
was a wakeup call to me to make that happen as much as possible in other
areas of my life.
What you've mentioned makes me wonder whether there's a place you can find
to be able to communicate some of your concerns including your own and their
reactivity. That way you could all find a place to be where you are. That
sounds way too vague. Sorry. For example, instead of saying, 'do you think
it's a good idea to....' .you might say something like, "it's hard for me to
say these things without worrying that you'll think and I'll think I'm being
my old controlling self. But I was thinking that eating candy as much as
you do (or whatever) might be making your moods go up and down. What do
you think?" That way you're expressing where you are at the moment and i
think may make space for everyone to wrangle and unravel from the past as
well. I think too often we get some idealized notion of how we're
supposed to be. I'm a big believer in bringing it all to the table, warts
and all. Or should I say beauty marks and all.
Message: 4
From: SandraDodd@...
Subject: Re: One's best theories (was- unlimited tv and computer time)
In a message dated 2/12/04 7:08:29 AM, abzb@... writes:
<< I've been thinking about the difference between this and what, in TCS
(Taking Children Seriously, tcs.com), they call one's best theories. >>
it's way too pedantic w/ all their theoretical BS -delete delete, snore
snore) except that they're similar in wanting to follow one's child's
interests and support them. Their idea of one's best theories was easily
expressed so i went there instead of trying to clarify it in my own words.
(Probably not a good idea)
-=-"I want
candy" when he wakes up many mornings and throughout the day. -=-
<<What I do is share my best theories about these thing. It's not that I
screw up my face and say dismissive things like, 'WHAT, another candy??'
Or a big sigh w/ the rolling of eyes. But I do share my thoughts about what
I believe eating that much candy might do to his body and what I perceive as
his reactions some hours down the line. >>
w/ or without him that I think he'll like.
<<The same thing with watching things on tv. Sometimes something's on and I
see the stars of the movies (kids) being callous and mean to other kids in
the name of cool. I mention that I don't like how they are with each
other. I don't say this movie sucks, how can you watch this drek but share
my perspective about it. >>
<<Another one: My dh is a musician. My son loves rock and roll. My dh
can't
even listen to it. It is jarring to his sensibilities. >>
at home it's not much of an issue since ds mostly likes to listen to rock
and roll in the car. i guess he's a travellin' man.
essage: 8
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:54:15 -0600
From: "J. Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
Subject: Re: One's best theories (was- unlimited tv and computer time)
<<<<<<< I mention that I don't like how they are with each
probably more respectful towards my ds. Embarrassing but true. I know it's
not the best thing and I'm working on that. Not so much respectful but I
can get so annoyed at my dh. We must be pretty respectful though since ds
Asher from very early on said please and thank you and excuse me and we
NEVER asked him to say those things. I hate to hear adults say, "Now what
do you say?" in that sing songy voice.
Yes that's a tough one. I act as though that were true as in getting what
he really wants but in the case of food it's a tough one. We have made some
candy stuff but it doesn't cut it for him. We continue to look for things.
I'll try the banana thing maybe dipped in caramel. He doesn't like
chocolate.
Thanks all.
Alison
> From: Wife2Vegman <wifetovegman2002@...>Hi Susan,
> Sub > If I try to "share my best theories" my older kids
> immediately hear that their choice is "wrong" or "less
> than" my preference, and they immediately say, "I'm
> sorry mommy, I'll put the candy back" or whatever.
>
> So since we are still healing from all the past junk,
> I have to be very careful in how I share my opinions.
I really know that feeling of realizing there's too much history to feel
confident in doing anything that even resembled the past. I also know that
before I've healed sufficiently from something and I go to the opposite end
of what I had been doing it's really just the opposite side of the same
coin.
I remember when I was dating. I had been hurt by what I thought was being
too open so decided to make a shift. I became a tough minded and
independent woman of the world. The trouble was, I was still the same
inside and I was either using my vulnerabilities to manipulate situations or
using my toughness to shield myself. When I was able to just say to myself,
'you know I'm really rather needy" which was until then one of the worst
things I thought one could possible be and something to run from at all
costs, I could w, not one month went
by and I met my dh. I remember the feeling of being so much more
comfortable w/ who I was not having to try to be something i wasn't. That
was a wakeup call to me to make that happen as much as possible in other
areas of my life.
What you've mentioned makes me wonder whether there's a place you can find
to be able to communicate some of your concerns including your own and their
reactivity. That way you could all find a place to be where you are. That
sounds way too vague. Sorry. For example, instead of saying, 'do you think
it's a good idea to....' .you might say something like, "it's hard for me to
say these things without worrying that you'll think and I'll think I'm being
my old controlling self. But I was thinking that eating candy as much as
you do (or whatever) might be making your moods go up and down. What do
you think?" That way you're expressing where you are at the moment and i
think may make space for everyone to wrangle and unravel from the past as
well. I think too often we get some idealized notion of how we're
supposed to be. I'm a big believer in bringing it all to the table, warts
and all. Or should I say beauty marks and all.
Message: 4
From: SandraDodd@...
Subject: Re: One's best theories (was- unlimited tv and computer time)
In a message dated 2/12/04 7:08:29 AM, abzb@... writes:
<< I've been thinking about the difference between this and what, in TCS
(Taking Children Seriously, tcs.com), they call one's best theories. >>
>>our unschooling lives, and what TCS is doing. Unless they've changed theirabout it.
>stance on telling real stories about real children, it just strikes me as
>irritating theoretical political possibility, and I don't much like to hear
>Our focus here is practical and direct. How can we help children learn asWell I didn't intend to discuss their philosophy (OK but I will say I think
>freely and as naturally as possible?
>Why can't they just say "communicate honestly with your children"?
>Let's not mix their stuff with our stuff, if possible.
it's way too pedantic w/ all their theoretical BS -delete delete, snore
snore) except that they're similar in wanting to follow one's child's
interests and support them. Their idea of one's best theories was easily
expressed so i went there instead of trying to clarify it in my own words.
(Probably not a good idea)
-=-"I want
candy" when he wakes up many mornings and throughout the day. -=-
>If you beat him to it by waking him up and saying "I made pancakes!" he mightYes. Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't.
>still say "I want candy" and you could say, "Okay, let's get some when we go
>to the store" or "okay, after pancakes!"
>If you say "what of all things in the world do you want?" that's not the same
>as offering lots of cool things, letting him turn them down (if he can, after
>he sees and smells them!) or not.
<<What I do is share my best theories about these thing. It's not that I
screw up my face and say dismissive things like, 'WHAT, another candy??'
Or a big sigh w/ the rolling of eyes. But I do share my thoughts about what
I believe eating that much candy might do to his body and what I perceive as
his reactions some hours down the line. >>
>Does it help you to have candy you don't mind so much? PayDay bars? GranolaI'm always looking for these things to have in the pantry or making things
>bars? Coconut squares? Peanut-butter balls?
>Would it help to have really interesting food you DO think is good already
>ready to go?
w/ or without him that I think he'll like.
<<The same thing with watching things on tv. Sometimes something's on and I
see the stars of the movies (kids) being callous and mean to other kids in
the name of cool. I mention that I don't like how they are with each
other. I don't say this movie sucks, how can you watch this drek but share
my perspective about it. >>
>That can be done without discussing the movie as a movie.Yes that's a good point.
>You could say "A friend of mine did that one time, and I still feel bad about
>it," or whatever's true and that you think is important for them to know.
<<Another one: My dh is a musician. My son loves rock and roll. My dh
can't
even listen to it. It is jarring to his sensibilities. >>
>This is a courtesy issue. If your son is not willing to keep it down whenWe've got this one pretty well worked out. In the car ds has a walkman and
>his dad's home, or if the dad is trying to demand total r&r blockade in his
>home, that's about living together compassionately, not about music.
at home it's not much of an issue since ds mostly likes to listen to rock
and roll in the car. i guess he's a travellin' man.
essage: 8
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:54:15 -0600
From: "J. Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
Subject: Re: One's best theories (was- unlimited tv and computer time)
<<<<<<< I mention that I don't like how they are with each
> other. I don't say this movie sucks, how can you watch this drek butshare
> my perspective about it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well I have to confess that the converse is probably more true; that I'm
>>My question would be do you do this with your dh? Or just your kids? If
>>just with your kids, then you are judging the kids and their choices. It
>>becomes about tv's effects on your kids rather than about the character's
>actions per se.
>>Dh watches stuff that I see little redeeming value in, some real low-brow
>>stuff. I may teasingly turn my nose up at it and go do something else. I
>>do the same thing with the kids. It is truly about the content of the
>>show....not about the effect it might have on the kids, but the effect it
>>has on me.
>>Just a thought.
>>Julie S.
probably more respectful towards my ds. Embarrassing but true. I know it's
not the best thing and I'm working on that. Not so much respectful but I
can get so annoyed at my dh. We must be pretty respectful though since ds
Asher from very early on said please and thank you and excuse me and we
NEVER asked him to say those things. I hate to hear adults say, "Now what
do you say?" in that sing songy voice.
>I think giving information, an opinion, or alternatives is fine asKatherine
>long as you aren't overly invested in the outcome, and really ok with
>your child not following your advice or agreeing with you. And also
>it helps to offer to give your opinion before giving the opinion
>itself. I sometimes ask my son "do you want to know what i think of
>xyz?" or "do you want to see a different way of doing that?"
>Sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes no, and i respect that.
Yes that's a tough one. I act as though that were true as in getting what
he really wants but in the case of food it's a tough one. We have made some
candy stuff but it doesn't cut it for him. We continue to look for things.
I'll try the banana thing maybe dipped in caramel. He doesn't like
chocolate.
Thanks all.
Alison
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/25/04 11:32:57 AM, abzb@... writes:
<< I think too often we get some idealized notion of how we're
supposed to be. I'm a big believer in bringing it all to the table, warts
and all. >>
If we know something is still bothering us that our parents did, though,
isn't it worth avoiding doing the same to our kids?
There are a lot of ways to express disapproval, and if we express it too
often the kids can start to ignore it. I think saving it until it's really
important works well, with them finding their own balance and preference other times.
-=-We must be pretty respectful though since ds
Asher from very early on said please and thank you and excuse me and we
NEVER asked him to say those things. I hate to hear adults say, "Now what
do you say?" in that sing songy voice.-=-
Yeah. My kids are usually pretty good about those things, so it was
noticeable the other night when I went in Kirby's room where he was online and Marty
was playing a video game. I said "Any dirty dishes in here?"
Each of them handed me something. I said "Thank you," and turned to walk
out.
Maybe each of them thought the other would say something. I said "And now
YOU guys say 'thank you'!" and they both said "Thank you!"
It was very rhythmic and kinda cute, none of it was hateful.
Sandra
<< I think too often we get some idealized notion of how we're
supposed to be. I'm a big believer in bringing it all to the table, warts
and all. >>
If we know something is still bothering us that our parents did, though,
isn't it worth avoiding doing the same to our kids?
There are a lot of ways to express disapproval, and if we express it too
often the kids can start to ignore it. I think saving it until it's really
important works well, with them finding their own balance and preference other times.
-=-We must be pretty respectful though since ds
Asher from very early on said please and thank you and excuse me and we
NEVER asked him to say those things. I hate to hear adults say, "Now what
do you say?" in that sing songy voice.-=-
Yeah. My kids are usually pretty good about those things, so it was
noticeable the other night when I went in Kirby's room where he was online and Marty
was playing a video game. I said "Any dirty dishes in here?"
Each of them handed me something. I said "Thank you," and turned to walk
out.
Maybe each of them thought the other would say something. I said "And now
YOU guys say 'thank you'!" and they both said "Thank you!"
It was very rhythmic and kinda cute, none of it was hateful.
Sandra