[UnschoolingDiscussion] My other thoughts
[email protected]
Talking to the lady who came today (my other changing assumptions post) got
me to thinking about a few things I have been thinking on a lot lately and
can't quite get in a good place in my head. Please bear with me while I try to
explain.
It has to do with the ways school teach, life all broken up into subjects,
history, science, math and so on. To many people these subjects represent
everything important about school and also the way school teaches them is the
accepted method, very defined.
Then there is life, our life here that is working pretty darned good. The
things I find myself thinking are important for life are sooo different. What I
see my kids doing is having a life, learning the good stuff that is important
in their individual lives. They are very different people even though they are
in the same family. If they were in school they would both be learning, let me
rephrase that since we really don't know that they are learning anything the
school thinks is being taught. They would be hearing basically the same
information over time, the same subjects presented in very similar ways so they
(kids) might look and sound more alike if they were in school than they do now
since they are not and are at home and have not been encouraged for a long time
to think or act alike.
I have trouble articulating for myself let alone anyone else how the old
school model of subjects fits into our life. It's not that I don't think any of
those things are important but I don't necessarily think they are more
important than other things they might learn like how to buy groceries or buy a car
or teach someone snowboarding. They all have their place in life.
When you have lived a lifetime thinking that we have to learn American
History in 10th grade or whatever but then one day you look at American History
differently and think how can I ever decide what parts are good or important to
learn and what parts we can let go? When you visit say Williamsburg and you
read and walk and listen to the reenactors and you realize that there was much,
much more to this whole story that was ever in any textbook in 10th grade. Then
I start thinking about all of the subjects in the school model and all the
things my kids are doing, they are very busy working on becoming themselves
which takes a lot more time than kids are usually allowed. Whew!
My dilemma is then just quieting that old voice in my head that now and then
worries that somehow I am shortchanging my kids by not covering the
"subjects".
Even rereading this is funny because I know they already know a lot in all
different subjects but I just can't box it up nice and pretty so I can check it
off a list.
I sure hope this is understandable, thanks for reading,
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
me to thinking about a few things I have been thinking on a lot lately and
can't quite get in a good place in my head. Please bear with me while I try to
explain.
It has to do with the ways school teach, life all broken up into subjects,
history, science, math and so on. To many people these subjects represent
everything important about school and also the way school teaches them is the
accepted method, very defined.
Then there is life, our life here that is working pretty darned good. The
things I find myself thinking are important for life are sooo different. What I
see my kids doing is having a life, learning the good stuff that is important
in their individual lives. They are very different people even though they are
in the same family. If they were in school they would both be learning, let me
rephrase that since we really don't know that they are learning anything the
school thinks is being taught. They would be hearing basically the same
information over time, the same subjects presented in very similar ways so they
(kids) might look and sound more alike if they were in school than they do now
since they are not and are at home and have not been encouraged for a long time
to think or act alike.
I have trouble articulating for myself let alone anyone else how the old
school model of subjects fits into our life. It's not that I don't think any of
those things are important but I don't necessarily think they are more
important than other things they might learn like how to buy groceries or buy a car
or teach someone snowboarding. They all have their place in life.
When you have lived a lifetime thinking that we have to learn American
History in 10th grade or whatever but then one day you look at American History
differently and think how can I ever decide what parts are good or important to
learn and what parts we can let go? When you visit say Williamsburg and you
read and walk and listen to the reenactors and you realize that there was much,
much more to this whole story that was ever in any textbook in 10th grade. Then
I start thinking about all of the subjects in the school model and all the
things my kids are doing, they are very busy working on becoming themselves
which takes a lot more time than kids are usually allowed. Whew!
My dilemma is then just quieting that old voice in my head that now and then
worries that somehow I am shortchanging my kids by not covering the
"subjects".
Even rereading this is funny because I know they already know a lot in all
different subjects but I just can't box it up nice and pretty so I can check it
off a list.
I sure hope this is understandable, thanks for reading,
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/10/2004 9:27:06 AM Central Standard Time,
BonKnit@... writes:
Or that we all have to learn any particular subject? I can still see the
school part working on me in that I still keep thinking I have to find a way to
account for the school subjects. I just need a way to put it to rest.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BonKnit@... writes:
> History in 10th grade or whatever but then one day you look at Americanreplying to my own post...
> History
> differently and think how can I ever decide what parts are good or important
> to
> learn and what parts we can let go?
Or that we all have to learn any particular subject? I can still see the
school part working on me in that I still keep thinking I have to find a way to
account for the school subjects. I just need a way to put it to rest.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wife2Vegman
--- BonKnit@... wrote:
I had a huge moment the other day.
Sarah (14) casually mentioned that she might want to
go to a fine arts college when she was old enough.
Until that moment, she had always proclaimed that she
was going to live on a huge farm and care for rescued
animals with her best friend, never get married, adopt
lots of children, etc.
I started looking at fine arts schools, and the
academic requirements are just as stringent if not
more so than regular colleges, and I started
hyperventilating.
I kept thinking, "Sandra says breathe, Sandra says
breathe" until I calmed back down ;-)
I suppose I could do a Scarlett O'Hara and just think
about it tomorrow. After making the paradigm shift,
how do we go back to school-think for preparing
transcripts and such, and will it be "enough"? Will I
be trying to fit a round peg in a square hole?
Obviously I have 4 years at least to figure this out,
since she is just 14 and goals have a way of changing
rapidly through the teen years.
What is the Tao of Unschooling until college?
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
>OUCH! LOL!
> Or that we all have to learn any particular subject?
> I can still see the
> school part working on me in that I still keep
> thinking I have to find a way to
> account for the school subjects. I just need a way
> to put it to rest.
> Laura
I had a huge moment the other day.
Sarah (14) casually mentioned that she might want to
go to a fine arts college when she was old enough.
Until that moment, she had always proclaimed that she
was going to live on a huge farm and care for rescued
animals with her best friend, never get married, adopt
lots of children, etc.
I started looking at fine arts schools, and the
academic requirements are just as stringent if not
more so than regular colleges, and I started
hyperventilating.
I kept thinking, "Sandra says breathe, Sandra says
breathe" until I calmed back down ;-)
I suppose I could do a Scarlett O'Hara and just think
about it tomorrow. After making the paradigm shift,
how do we go back to school-think for preparing
transcripts and such, and will it be "enough"? Will I
be trying to fit a round peg in a square hole?
Obviously I have 4 years at least to figure this out,
since she is just 14 and goals have a way of changing
rapidly through the teen years.
What is the Tao of Unschooling until college?
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/10/04 10:34:06 AM, wifetovegman2002@... writes:
<< I started looking at fine arts schools, and the
academic requirements are just as stringent if not
more so than regular colleges, and I started
hyperventilating.
I doubt she wants to go to a fine arts school so that she can show off her
academic achievements.
If a school has a list of what they would LIKE to see in a person who has
finished thirteen years of public school, that's about schoolkids. What would
they accept seeing in a child who was there after years of having done
something way cooler than school?
What does your daughter do now that she would continue to pursue in a fine
arts school? If "something," lean toward that. If "nothing," what makes her
think she want that school? And if "nothing," then spend some energy finding
opportunities for her to see, touch, explore, attempt those things she thinks a
school would teach her.
I have a friend who went to Denver Arts Institute Whatever, an expensive
graphic arts thing. He does some things along those lines, but he works for an
internet provider. He does some webpage design, but no more or better than the
computer geeks he works with who never lifted a pencil. He's a nice guy,
and he enjoyed art school, but it was expensive and gruelling and he doesn't
"use it" in the direct-financial-return most people think of when they think
of a degree being "worthwhile."
So while she might end up going, staying, teaching, maybe instead of worrying
about solid geometry or British Literature, you could look at what she wants
from an art school.
And breathe! <g>
Sandra
Sandra
<< I started looking at fine arts schools, and the
academic requirements are just as stringent if not
more so than regular colleges, and I started
hyperventilating.
>>-=-What is the Tao of Unschooling until college?-=-
I doubt she wants to go to a fine arts school so that she can show off her
academic achievements.
If a school has a list of what they would LIKE to see in a person who has
finished thirteen years of public school, that's about schoolkids. What would
they accept seeing in a child who was there after years of having done
something way cooler than school?
What does your daughter do now that she would continue to pursue in a fine
arts school? If "something," lean toward that. If "nothing," what makes her
think she want that school? And if "nothing," then spend some energy finding
opportunities for her to see, touch, explore, attempt those things she thinks a
school would teach her.
I have a friend who went to Denver Arts Institute Whatever, an expensive
graphic arts thing. He does some things along those lines, but he works for an
internet provider. He does some webpage design, but no more or better than the
computer geeks he works with who never lifted a pencil. He's a nice guy,
and he enjoyed art school, but it was expensive and gruelling and he doesn't
"use it" in the direct-financial-return most people think of when they think
of a degree being "worthwhile."
So while she might end up going, staying, teaching, maybe instead of worrying
about solid geometry or British Literature, you could look at what she wants
from an art school.
And breathe! <g>
Sandra
Sandra
Priscilla Martinez
howdy all!
i've been on the list for a while now -- maybe a month or so -- and this is my first post.
so i'll start with my intro . . . i'm an at-home mom to my dd (6y) and 3 dss (4y,2y, and 10 months). we live in the dc 'burbs.
and the reason for my post . . . in my mind, for the past few days, i have been trying to formulate the exact thoughts laura shared with us into an email of my own. and i'm so glad laura did it!
in my case, i have saxon 1st grade math and 2nd year phonics for my dd and i have saxon k math and 1st year phonics for my ds. now, let me explain why i'm on this list. since august, we've cracked open those workbooks maybe ten times. and while i agree with the unschooling approach 110%, i guess i'm scared to make the cold-turkey jump. every once in a while i'll retreat to my books.
(by the way, for what it's worth and for the times i do use them, i love the saxon approach and they work quite effectively for my children, so saxon is not a concern in my case.)
i'm constantly wrestling with the same concerns and thoughts laura expressed. and like laura, part of my mental debate is having priorities different from public school and from the "standards of learning" as to what is most important to learn. as laura put it, "learning the good stuff that is important in their individual lives." so i definitely look forward to contributions to this particular thread!
as for the past month or so that i've been lurking . . . y'all are quite awesome, insightful, and wise!
peace,
priscilla martinez
BonKnit@... wrote:
Then there is life, our life here that is working pretty darned good. The
things I find myself thinking are important for life are sooo different. What I
see my kids doing is having a life, learning the good stuff that is important
in their individual lives. They are very different people even though they are
in the same family. If they were in school they would both be learning, let me
rephrase that since we really don't know that they are learning anything the
school thinks is being taught. They would be hearing basically the same
information over time, the same subjects presented in very similar ways so they
(kids) might look and sound more alike if they were in school than they do now
since they are not and are at home and have not been encouraged for a long time
to think or act alike.
Then
I start thinking about all of the subjects in the school model and all the
things my kids are doing, they are very busy working on becoming themselves
which takes a lot more time than kids are usually allowed. Whew!
My dilemma is then just quieting that old voice in my head that now and then
worries that somehow I am shortchanging my kids by not covering the
"subjects".
Even rereading this is funny because I know they already know a lot in all
different subjects but I just can't box it up nice and
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day,
that my child may have peace."
Thomas Paine
(1737-1809, Anglo-American political theorist and writer)
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
i've been on the list for a while now -- maybe a month or so -- and this is my first post.
so i'll start with my intro . . . i'm an at-home mom to my dd (6y) and 3 dss (4y,2y, and 10 months). we live in the dc 'burbs.
and the reason for my post . . . in my mind, for the past few days, i have been trying to formulate the exact thoughts laura shared with us into an email of my own. and i'm so glad laura did it!
in my case, i have saxon 1st grade math and 2nd year phonics for my dd and i have saxon k math and 1st year phonics for my ds. now, let me explain why i'm on this list. since august, we've cracked open those workbooks maybe ten times. and while i agree with the unschooling approach 110%, i guess i'm scared to make the cold-turkey jump. every once in a while i'll retreat to my books.
(by the way, for what it's worth and for the times i do use them, i love the saxon approach and they work quite effectively for my children, so saxon is not a concern in my case.)
i'm constantly wrestling with the same concerns and thoughts laura expressed. and like laura, part of my mental debate is having priorities different from public school and from the "standards of learning" as to what is most important to learn. as laura put it, "learning the good stuff that is important in their individual lives." so i definitely look forward to contributions to this particular thread!
as for the past month or so that i've been lurking . . . y'all are quite awesome, insightful, and wise!
peace,
priscilla martinez
BonKnit@... wrote:
Then there is life, our life here that is working pretty darned good. The
things I find myself thinking are important for life are sooo different. What I
see my kids doing is having a life, learning the good stuff that is important
in their individual lives. They are very different people even though they are
in the same family. If they were in school they would both be learning, let me
rephrase that since we really don't know that they are learning anything the
school thinks is being taught. They would be hearing basically the same
information over time, the same subjects presented in very similar ways so they
(kids) might look and sound more alike if they were in school than they do now
since they are not and are at home and have not been encouraged for a long time
to think or act alike.
Then
I start thinking about all of the subjects in the school model and all the
things my kids are doing, they are very busy working on becoming themselves
which takes a lot more time than kids are usually allowed. Whew!
My dilemma is then just quieting that old voice in my head that now and then
worries that somehow I am shortchanging my kids by not covering the
"subjects".
Even rereading this is funny because I know they already know a lot in all
different subjects but I just can't box it up nice and
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day,
that my child may have peace."
Thomas Paine
(1737-1809, Anglo-American political theorist and writer)
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wife2Vegman
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
of just casually thinking about it, as she is an
artist and probably her art mentor that she adores
made some comment during class, and she mentioned it
to me.
*I* was the one hyperventilating, after seeing what
they say they require. LOL!
Sarah has no doubt in her mind that she will go if she
wants, and has no intention of sculpting her life to
fit into the list of academics required according to
the websites.
create. She loves her art class and her mentor.
experience would be interesting, and why not go to one
that emphasizes what she enjoys doing.
breathing. ;-)
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
>No, that would not be Sarah, for sure. She was sort
> In a message dated 2/10/04 10:34:06 AM,
> wifetovegman2002@... writes:
>
> << I started looking at fine arts schools, and the
> academic requirements are just as stringent if not
> more so than regular colleges, and I started
> hyperventilating.
> >>
>
> -=-What is the Tao of Unschooling until college?-=-
>
> I doubt she wants to go to a fine arts school so
> that she can show off her
> academic achievements.
of just casually thinking about it, as she is an
artist and probably her art mentor that she adores
made some comment during class, and she mentioned it
to me.
*I* was the one hyperventilating, after seeing what
they say they require. LOL!
Sarah has no doubt in her mind that she will go if she
wants, and has no intention of sculpting her life to
fit into the list of academics required according to
the websites.
>Do these types of schools accept unschoolers?
> If a school has a list of what they would LIKE to
> see in a person who has
> finished thirteen years of public school, that's
> about schoolkids. What would
> they accept seeing in a child who was there after
> years of having done
> something way cooler than school?
>She paints. She loves using different media to
> What does your daughter do now that she would
> continue to pursue in a fine
> arts school? If "something," lean toward that.
create. She loves her art class and her mentor.
> IfShe said she just was thinking that the college
> "nothing," what makes her
> think she want that school?
experience would be interesting, and why not go to one
that emphasizes what she enjoys doing.
> So while she might end up going, staying, teaching,Yep, breathing...might need my inhalor, but I am
> maybe instead of worrying
> about solid geometry or British Literature, you
> could look at what she wants
> from an art school.
> And breathe! <g>
>
> Sandra
breathing. ;-)
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/10/2004 11:26:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,
wifetovegman2002@... writes:
her. I used to tutor college students and got to know some of the admissions
guidelines -- if a self-directed, there-cause-she-wants-to-be student comes in,
they know she'll work hard and be prepared and fill in the gaps (everyone has
gaps) as she goes. Many of the schooled students are so used to being
spoon-fed that they have a much harder time adjusting to college, no matter what their
transcripts say. Admissions officers know this, in my experience.
Peace,
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wifetovegman2002@... writes:
> Do these types of schools accept unschoolers?My limited understanding of this -- get her an interview and they'll want
her. I used to tutor college students and got to know some of the admissions
guidelines -- if a self-directed, there-cause-she-wants-to-be student comes in,
they know she'll work hard and be prepared and fill in the gaps (everyone has
gaps) as she goes. Many of the schooled students are so used to being
spoon-fed that they have a much harder time adjusting to college, no matter what their
transcripts say. Admissions officers know this, in my experience.
Peace,
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/10/2004 1:26:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
I have a friend who went to Denver Arts Institute Whatever, an expensive
graphic arts thing. He does some things along those lines, but he works for
an
internet provider. He does some webpage design, but no more or better than
the
computer geeks he works with who never lifted a pencil. He's a nice guy,
and he enjoyed art school, but it was expensive and gruelling and he doesn't
"use it" in the direct-financial-return most people think of when they think
of a degree being "worthwhile."<<<<<<
I was listening to Michael Feldman's "What Do You Know" last Saturday. He
picked a woman out of the audience, chatted for a minute, and then asked her why
she wanted to take part in the contest. Usually there are some very creative,
fun reasons people give for wanting to participate. She said, "Because I'd
like to."
OK. Not the best answer I'd heard, but.....
Then he asks her a few more questions, like:
Are you a student?
Yes.
Where?
Some-lib-arts-school somewhere.
What's your major?
I don't have one yet.
What year are you?
Sophomore.
Oh, you have plenty of time to decide, then.
Yes.
What are your interests?
I don't really have any.
Well, what do you want to do?
Maybe social work?
Oh, so you like sociology? Psychology?
No.
Seeing this was going nowhere, he asks: SO, what do you do for kicks?
She thinks a minute and says: I don't have kicks.
No kicks? (you can hear his grin here)
No, there's nothing I'm really interested in.
At this point I had to get out of the car. Both because I was at my
destination, but too----I was afraid to hear the rest!
Just amazing!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
I have a friend who went to Denver Arts Institute Whatever, an expensive
graphic arts thing. He does some things along those lines, but he works for
an
internet provider. He does some webpage design, but no more or better than
the
computer geeks he works with who never lifted a pencil. He's a nice guy,
and he enjoyed art school, but it was expensive and gruelling and he doesn't
"use it" in the direct-financial-return most people think of when they think
of a degree being "worthwhile."<<<<<<
I was listening to Michael Feldman's "What Do You Know" last Saturday. He
picked a woman out of the audience, chatted for a minute, and then asked her why
she wanted to take part in the contest. Usually there are some very creative,
fun reasons people give for wanting to participate. She said, "Because I'd
like to."
OK. Not the best answer I'd heard, but.....
Then he asks her a few more questions, like:
Are you a student?
Yes.
Where?
Some-lib-arts-school somewhere.
What's your major?
I don't have one yet.
What year are you?
Sophomore.
Oh, you have plenty of time to decide, then.
Yes.
What are your interests?
I don't really have any.
Well, what do you want to do?
Maybe social work?
Oh, so you like sociology? Psychology?
No.
Seeing this was going nowhere, he asks: SO, what do you do for kicks?
She thinks a minute and says: I don't have kicks.
No kicks? (you can hear his grin here)
No, there's nothing I'm really interested in.
At this point I had to get out of the car. Both because I was at my
destination, but too----I was afraid to hear the rest!
Just amazing!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
TreeGoddess
On Feb 10, 2004, at 12:24 PM, Wife2Vegman wrote:
Scarlett only used that phrase when she seriously couldn't "deal" with
something right then and there and needed to put it aside momentarily
for sanity's sake. The next day she really DID think and deal with
whatever the pressing matter was.
-Tracy- who just reread Gone with the Wind for the upteenth time ;)
> I suppose I could do a Scarlett O'Hara and just think about itSure you can for as long as you'd like to. :) But don't forget that
> tomorrow.
Scarlett only used that phrase when she seriously couldn't "deal" with
something right then and there and needed to put it aside momentarily
for sanity's sake. The next day she really DID think and deal with
whatever the pressing matter was.
-Tracy- who just reread Gone with the Wind for the upteenth time ;)
pam sorooshian
On Feb 10, 2004, at 11:12 AM, Wife2Vegman wrote:
not filling the specific admissions requirements.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> Do these types of schools accept unschoolers?Almost ANY college or university has a way to enter as an exception -
>
not filling the specific admissions requirements.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
J. Stauffer
<<<<<Almost ANY college or university has a way to enter as an exception -
that schools are so excited to find kids that really want to be there, that
want to explore and learn, rather than ones who see college as simply the
next thing they "have to do to get a good job".
I don't see college as a big obstacle for us.
Julie S.
> not filling the specific admissions requirements.>>>>My mom worked for years in admissions in the Texas A&M system. She says
that schools are so excited to find kids that really want to be there, that
want to explore and learn, rather than ones who see college as simply the
next thing they "have to do to get a good job".
I don't see college as a big obstacle for us.
Julie S.
Wife2Vegman
--- "J. Stauffer" <jnjstau@...> wrote:
homeschool-to-college talk about the parents keeping a
journal of activities, books read, classes taken, etc.
so that they can then prepare a transcript.
Cafi Cohen's book And What About College?
Alison McKee's book From Homeschool to College and
Work
The Unschooling Handbook by Mary Griffith
and a couple more.
So is this record keeping superfluous really? Just an
academic exercise for the parents to help quell the
jitters of sailing uncharted waters and to quiet the
grandparents who are squawking about higher education?
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
>A lot of the books I have read lately about
> My mom worked for years in admissions in the Texas
> A&M system. She says
> that schools are so excited to find kids that really
> want to be there, that
> want to explore and learn, rather than ones who see
> college as simply the
> next thing they "have to do to get a good job".
>
> I don't see college as a big obstacle for us.
>
> Julie S.
homeschool-to-college talk about the parents keeping a
journal of activities, books read, classes taken, etc.
so that they can then prepare a transcript.
Cafi Cohen's book And What About College?
Alison McKee's book From Homeschool to College and
Work
The Unschooling Handbook by Mary Griffith
and a couple more.
So is this record keeping superfluous really? Just an
academic exercise for the parents to help quell the
jitters of sailing uncharted waters and to quiet the
grandparents who are squawking about higher education?
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
[email protected]
Oh dear. Maybe this is something you'd be willing to hear a little
"expert" input on, before you go too much further? (Your oldest is 6 -- if
you're lucky, even with Saxon around, she still likes numbers and thinks they are
fun!)
If not, let me at least describe in depressing detail how soul-sucking
I personally saw a Saxon pre-algebra text be last year, to a lovely and
hardworking, conservatively schooled young lady who sought my help during a
sleepover here. JJ
ummhjm@... writes:
"expert" input on, before you go too much further? (Your oldest is 6 -- if
you're lucky, even with Saxon around, she still likes numbers and thinks they are
fun!)
If not, let me at least describe in depressing detail how soul-sucking
I personally saw a Saxon pre-algebra text be last year, to a lovely and
hardworking, conservatively schooled young lady who sought my help during a
sleepover here. JJ
ummhjm@... writes:
> (by the way, for what it's worth and for the times i do use them, i love[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> the saxon approach and they work quite effectively for my children, so saxon is
> not a concern in my case.)
>
Priscilla Martinez
"JEOPARDY!," AMERICA'S FAVORITE QUIZ SHOW�,
HEADS TO WASHINGTON D.C.
Nation's Capital To Host "Power Players Week" &
"Kids Week," Taping April 3rd & 4th 2004
CULVER CITY, CA (February 2, 2004) � JEOPARDY! producers announced today that the award-winning quiz show will tape two special weeks of programs in Washington D.C. at the DAR Constitution Hall on April 3rd and 4th, 2004. The nation's capital will play host to Power Players Week (airing nationally in syndication May 10-14) and Kids Week (airing nationally in syndication May 3-7). These highly anticipated shows mark the long-awaited return of JEOPARDY! to the D.C. area, where the show taped its very first remote � the original Power Players back in 1997. JEOPARDY! can be seen locally in Washington D.C. on WJLA-TV/ABC 7 at 7:30pm.
"ABC 7 is proud to host Alex Trebek and JEOPARDY! here in Washington." said Chris Pike, President and General Manager of WJLA-TV/ABC 7. "With two exciting weeks of shows from the heart of our capital city, it's a great opportunity for local fans to watch their favorite program live and in person."
"Washington D.C. is the quintessential location to showcase 2004 Power Players Week and Kids Week," said Harry Friedman, Executive Producer of JEOPARDY! "The nation's capital provides an exciting and dynamic setting to present two weeks of very unique shows � highlighting our nation's leaders as well as celebrating the young people who are our nation's future."
Power Players features 15 of the country's most influential personalities, including political figures, authors, journalists and international newsmakers competing on behalf of their favorite charities. Each Power Player will earn a guaranteed $20,000 for the charity of their choice, while the winner each day will score a $50,000 jackpot for their special cause. (Celebrity contestant names are scheduled to be released in the coming weeks.)
A future Jet Propulsion Lab scientist?... a future Neurological surgeon?... or the future President of the United States? JEOPARDY!'s Kids Week, a traditional favorite among viewers, will feature 15 contestants between the ages of 10 and 12. The winner of each show keeps the money he or she wins, with a minimum guarantee of $10,000. In addition to the cash prizes, each student's school will be the recipient of the new "Classroom JEOPARDY!" an affordable electronic version of the famous quiz show. "Classroom JEOPARDY!" can be tailored by educators to suit their specific curriculum, while bringing the familiar sights and sounds (buzzers and all!) of JEOPARDY! directly into the classroom.
The JEOPARDY! contestant search team will be in the Washington D.C. area March 20 & 21 auditioning and meeting kids between the ages of 10 and 12 to appear on Kids Week. For more information and details regarding auditions, please visit www.JEOPARDY.com.
Thousands of people will be able to attend the tapings at DAR Constitution Hall on April 3rd and 4th, 2004. Beginning February 9, JEOPARDY! fans may pick up applications for tickets at IHOP locations throughout the Washington D.C. area. For more information on the JEOPARDY! remote in D.C., please call the "ABC 7/JEOPARDY!" hotline at (703) 647-1533.
ABC 7/WJLA-TV is a division of Allbritton Communications, which is based in Washington, DC. Allbritton Communications owns and operates nine television stations in seven broadcast markets in Alabama, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Virginia and Washington. It also owns and operates News Channel 8, a 24-hour cable news channel, which shares facilities with ABC 7/WJLA-TV.
JEOPARDY! is produced by Sony Pictures Television, a Sony Pictures Entertainment Company, and is distributed domestically by King World Productions, Inc. The U.S. episodes are distributed internationally by CBS Broadcast International (CBI). King World International Productions, a subsidiary of CBI, sells and produces format versions worldwide.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day,
that my child may have peace."
Thomas Paine
(1737-1809, Anglo-American political theorist and writer)
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
HEADS TO WASHINGTON D.C.
Nation's Capital To Host "Power Players Week" &
"Kids Week," Taping April 3rd & 4th 2004
CULVER CITY, CA (February 2, 2004) � JEOPARDY! producers announced today that the award-winning quiz show will tape two special weeks of programs in Washington D.C. at the DAR Constitution Hall on April 3rd and 4th, 2004. The nation's capital will play host to Power Players Week (airing nationally in syndication May 10-14) and Kids Week (airing nationally in syndication May 3-7). These highly anticipated shows mark the long-awaited return of JEOPARDY! to the D.C. area, where the show taped its very first remote � the original Power Players back in 1997. JEOPARDY! can be seen locally in Washington D.C. on WJLA-TV/ABC 7 at 7:30pm.
"ABC 7 is proud to host Alex Trebek and JEOPARDY! here in Washington." said Chris Pike, President and General Manager of WJLA-TV/ABC 7. "With two exciting weeks of shows from the heart of our capital city, it's a great opportunity for local fans to watch their favorite program live and in person."
"Washington D.C. is the quintessential location to showcase 2004 Power Players Week and Kids Week," said Harry Friedman, Executive Producer of JEOPARDY! "The nation's capital provides an exciting and dynamic setting to present two weeks of very unique shows � highlighting our nation's leaders as well as celebrating the young people who are our nation's future."
Power Players features 15 of the country's most influential personalities, including political figures, authors, journalists and international newsmakers competing on behalf of their favorite charities. Each Power Player will earn a guaranteed $20,000 for the charity of their choice, while the winner each day will score a $50,000 jackpot for their special cause. (Celebrity contestant names are scheduled to be released in the coming weeks.)
A future Jet Propulsion Lab scientist?... a future Neurological surgeon?... or the future President of the United States? JEOPARDY!'s Kids Week, a traditional favorite among viewers, will feature 15 contestants between the ages of 10 and 12. The winner of each show keeps the money he or she wins, with a minimum guarantee of $10,000. In addition to the cash prizes, each student's school will be the recipient of the new "Classroom JEOPARDY!" an affordable electronic version of the famous quiz show. "Classroom JEOPARDY!" can be tailored by educators to suit their specific curriculum, while bringing the familiar sights and sounds (buzzers and all!) of JEOPARDY! directly into the classroom.
The JEOPARDY! contestant search team will be in the Washington D.C. area March 20 & 21 auditioning and meeting kids between the ages of 10 and 12 to appear on Kids Week. For more information and details regarding auditions, please visit www.JEOPARDY.com.
Thousands of people will be able to attend the tapings at DAR Constitution Hall on April 3rd and 4th, 2004. Beginning February 9, JEOPARDY! fans may pick up applications for tickets at IHOP locations throughout the Washington D.C. area. For more information on the JEOPARDY! remote in D.C., please call the "ABC 7/JEOPARDY!" hotline at (703) 647-1533.
ABC 7/WJLA-TV is a division of Allbritton Communications, which is based in Washington, DC. Allbritton Communications owns and operates nine television stations in seven broadcast markets in Alabama, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Virginia and Washington. It also owns and operates News Channel 8, a 24-hour cable news channel, which shares facilities with ABC 7/WJLA-TV.
JEOPARDY! is produced by Sony Pictures Television, a Sony Pictures Entertainment Company, and is distributed domestically by King World Productions, Inc. The U.S. episodes are distributed internationally by CBS Broadcast International (CBI). King World International Productions, a subsidiary of CBI, sells and produces format versions worldwide.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day,
that my child may have peace."
Thomas Paine
(1737-1809, Anglo-American political theorist and writer)
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Priscilla Martinez
i'd always be willing to hear! i feel there are only a few uncompromising absolutes in my life, and sticking to a curriculum indefinitely definitely isn't one of them! plus, i try to live believing that there's always some benefit to everything, even if it's "only" to help me avoid reinventing the wheel by gaining from other's wisdom and experiences, so . . . got more expert input?
jrossedd@... wrote: Oh dear. Maybe this is something you'd be willing to hear a little
"expert" input on, before you go too much further? (Your oldest is 6 -- if
you're lucky, even with Saxon around, she still likes numbers and thinks they are
fun!)
If not, let me at least describe in depressing detail how soul-sucking
I personally saw a Saxon pre-algebra text be last year, to a lovely and
hardworking, conservatively schooled young lady who sought my help during a
sleepover here. JJ
ummhjm@... writes:
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day,
that my child may have peace."
Thomas Paine
(1737-1809, Anglo-American political theorist and writer)
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jrossedd@... wrote: Oh dear. Maybe this is something you'd be willing to hear a little
"expert" input on, before you go too much further? (Your oldest is 6 -- if
you're lucky, even with Saxon around, she still likes numbers and thinks they are
fun!)
If not, let me at least describe in depressing detail how soul-sucking
I personally saw a Saxon pre-algebra text be last year, to a lovely and
hardworking, conservatively schooled young lady who sought my help during a
sleepover here. JJ
ummhjm@... writes:
> (by the way, for what it's worth and for the times i do use them, i love[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> the saxon approach and they work quite effectively for my children, so saxon is
> not a concern in my case.)
>
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day,
that my child may have peace."
Thomas Paine
(1737-1809, Anglo-American political theorist and writer)
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J. Stauffer
<<<<<So is this record keeping superfluous really? Just an
There are so many myths about how hard it is to get into college. Schools
and parents need the myths so they can hold your entire future ransom and
force you to jump through the hoops.
My 17 yo nephew was sure he didn't want to attend a Jr. College because the
credits wouldn't transfer. Please.
Lots of universities have "open enrollment" meaning anybody can come. A
good thing.
Even if you don't think you can get into "the university of your choice",
take some classes somewhere else for a couple of years, transfer in. Big
deal.
Or don't go to college at all. My brother is a college drop out. He now
works at a nuclear plant and is flown all over the world as a trouble
shooter.
Julie S.
> academic exercise for the parents to help quell theI wouldn't say superfluous.....just more of a molehill than a mountain.
> jitters of sailing uncharted waters and to quiet the
> grandparents who are squawking about higher education?>>>>>>
There are so many myths about how hard it is to get into college. Schools
and parents need the myths so they can hold your entire future ransom and
force you to jump through the hoops.
My 17 yo nephew was sure he didn't want to attend a Jr. College because the
credits wouldn't transfer. Please.
Lots of universities have "open enrollment" meaning anybody can come. A
good thing.
Even if you don't think you can get into "the university of your choice",
take some classes somewhere else for a couple of years, transfer in. Big
deal.
Or don't go to college at all. My brother is a college drop out. He now
works at a nuclear plant and is flown all over the world as a trouble
shooter.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wife2Vegman" <wifetovegman2002@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] My other thoughts
>
> --- "J. Stauffer" <jnjstau@...> wrote:
> >
> > My mom worked for years in admissions in the Texas
> > A&M system. She says
> > that schools are so excited to find kids that really
> > want to be there, that
> > want to explore and learn, rather than ones who see
> > college as simply the
> > next thing they "have to do to get a good job".
> >
> > I don't see college as a big obstacle for us.
> >
> > Julie S.
>
>
> A lot of the books I have read lately about
> homeschool-to-college talk about the parents keeping a
> journal of activities, books read, classes taken, etc.
> so that they can then prepare a transcript.
>
> Cafi Cohen's book And What About College?
>
> Alison McKee's book From Homeschool to College and
> Work
>
> The Unschooling Handbook by Mary Griffith
>
> and a couple more.
>
>
> So is this record keeping superfluous really? Just an
> academic exercise for the parents to help quell the
> jitters of sailing uncharted waters and to quiet the
> grandparents who are squawking about higher education?
>
>
>
> =====
> --Susan in VA
> WifetoVegman
>
> What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for
children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the
schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
pam sorooshian
On Feb 10, 2004, at 5:05 PM, jrossedd@... wrote:
Saxon math up to third grade is very very different than Saxon math
starting with Saxon 5/4 and up through the higher levels.
Saxon math up through 3rd grade is a very very very scripted (tells
parent what to say) program that has lots of hands-on manipulative
stuff, activities, and focuses on the real math young children are
discovering around them. It is a big waste of money - for an attentive
parent. There isn't anything in it that any child wouldn't come up with
just in the course of daily life - assuming a parent who puts some
effort into being with their kids and explaining things to them and
helping them understand things in a way that works for them. Assuming a
curious and enthusiastic parent who looks it up when the kid wonders
why we have 60 seconds in a minute and 60 minutes in an hour and who
thinks about why we have a ones place and a tens place and so on.
Parents don't have to KNOW everything. Unschooling parents really ought
to be willing to wonder and think and investigate though and, when it
comes to math, they have to be careful not to avoid it or brush it off
or say how they hate it.
After 3rd grade level, Saxon is a program that emphasizes computational
skills and provides almost no explanation or context of any kind for
why the particular technique works as it does or when or why you'd ever
want to do it. For a long time I had a bunch of Saxon books around here
and found them useful to quickly look up something I'd forgotten, how
to find the volume of a cone, for example. Now I'd just google it, so I
threw the Saxon math books away to clear some space. Saxon books
provide brief explanations of HOW to perform some computation, an
example or two or three, and then many many problems to work. There is
a set of 25 to 35 problems after each new computational skill is
introduced, but only about 5 of the problems are practicing that new
skill, the rest are review of skills previously introduced. This way
students practice everything they've learned repeatedly, not just
practice the new skill and then not see it again.
I can't really see a place for Saxon math in an unschooler's life. I
can see a math book for older kids who have developed an understanding
of math concepts and wants to learn to "do" math - meaning wants to
learn all the math computation techniques that are usually in, say, a
pre-algebra book, but unschoolers in that position would find Saxon far
too dense - they wouldn't want to spend that much time reviewing over
and over and over.
All that reviewing is necessary because the students aren't learning it
when it is introduced. It has to be drummed into their heads.
But an interested learner who has the background understanding of why
things work as they do and who is learning it with a context in mind
where it would be useful - doesn't have the need to force things into
their brain with the Saxon sledgehammer.
I do worry about unschooled kids and math - ONLY because so many of
their parents are so math phobic that they don't "naturally" support
the math learning that would otherwise ordinarily happen in an
unschooling family. I think unschooling parents have an obligation to
their children to find a way to get past their own math anxieties and
phobias.
Throwing a Saxon math book in front of them is a good way to pass ON
those anxieties and phobias, imo.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> If not, let me at least describe in depressing detail howI'd like to hear it, JJ.
> soul-sucking
> I personally saw a Saxon pre-algebra text be last year, to a lovely and
> hardworking, conservatively schooled young lady who sought my help
> during a
> sleepover here. JJ
Saxon math up to third grade is very very different than Saxon math
starting with Saxon 5/4 and up through the higher levels.
Saxon math up through 3rd grade is a very very very scripted (tells
parent what to say) program that has lots of hands-on manipulative
stuff, activities, and focuses on the real math young children are
discovering around them. It is a big waste of money - for an attentive
parent. There isn't anything in it that any child wouldn't come up with
just in the course of daily life - assuming a parent who puts some
effort into being with their kids and explaining things to them and
helping them understand things in a way that works for them. Assuming a
curious and enthusiastic parent who looks it up when the kid wonders
why we have 60 seconds in a minute and 60 minutes in an hour and who
thinks about why we have a ones place and a tens place and so on.
Parents don't have to KNOW everything. Unschooling parents really ought
to be willing to wonder and think and investigate though and, when it
comes to math, they have to be careful not to avoid it or brush it off
or say how they hate it.
After 3rd grade level, Saxon is a program that emphasizes computational
skills and provides almost no explanation or context of any kind for
why the particular technique works as it does or when or why you'd ever
want to do it. For a long time I had a bunch of Saxon books around here
and found them useful to quickly look up something I'd forgotten, how
to find the volume of a cone, for example. Now I'd just google it, so I
threw the Saxon math books away to clear some space. Saxon books
provide brief explanations of HOW to perform some computation, an
example or two or three, and then many many problems to work. There is
a set of 25 to 35 problems after each new computational skill is
introduced, but only about 5 of the problems are practicing that new
skill, the rest are review of skills previously introduced. This way
students practice everything they've learned repeatedly, not just
practice the new skill and then not see it again.
I can't really see a place for Saxon math in an unschooler's life. I
can see a math book for older kids who have developed an understanding
of math concepts and wants to learn to "do" math - meaning wants to
learn all the math computation techniques that are usually in, say, a
pre-algebra book, but unschoolers in that position would find Saxon far
too dense - they wouldn't want to spend that much time reviewing over
and over and over.
All that reviewing is necessary because the students aren't learning it
when it is introduced. It has to be drummed into their heads.
But an interested learner who has the background understanding of why
things work as they do and who is learning it with a context in mind
where it would be useful - doesn't have the need to force things into
their brain with the Saxon sledgehammer.
I do worry about unschooled kids and math - ONLY because so many of
their parents are so math phobic that they don't "naturally" support
the math learning that would otherwise ordinarily happen in an
unschooling family. I think unschooling parents have an obligation to
their children to find a way to get past their own math anxieties and
phobias.
Throwing a Saxon math book in front of them is a good way to pass ON
those anxieties and phobias, imo.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Priscilla Martinez
hi pam!
while your post was definitely insightful, and i am grateful that you took the time to response, there were two major assumptions made in your approach, which may apply to some, but do not apply to me:
1."It is a big waste of money - for an attentive
parent."
i'm not offended, nor did i take that personally -- i know you don't know me. however, i do need to clarify that i would definitely consider myself an attentive parent who, as an unschooler would, takes care to present the world, and everything in it, to my children as a gigantic place to learn. in retrospect, my husband and i were unschooling my six-year-old since the day she was born, counting to her in the five languages we know between us, without even knowing we were unschooling. it's just our parenting style.
2."many of their parents are so math phobic that they don't "naturally" support the math learning that would otherwise ordinarily happen in an unschooling family"
i majored in computer science, which by default in my case put me two math courses short from a double-major in math. after organic chemistry, math is my favorite subject. so the phobia issue also doesn't apply to me.
but i do still seek advice and wisdom from all of you who have been there, so i'll also clarify why, in my attempt to analyze myself, i have an ever-present nagging little voice reminding me to hit the books. i think it's more of an insurance -- making sure the minimums are met, they know what they're "supposed" to know, nothing will get left out, etc., so that we can get on with the business of doing the stuff we really enjoy without mom (ie me) having the anxiety that we're missing something somewhere. i think it may be kind of the same philosophy behind "teaching to the test."
i can guess what some of y'all's responses will be -- they'll learn, they don't need to be measured by society's standards but rather your own, their natural curiosity will lead them and you, etc.
i understand and agree wholeheartedly in principle. in the meantime, though, my confidence is lacking. sure i know i can look back when my kids are teens and adults and say, "oh, yeah, they learned." but when you're closer to the beginning of your journey as i am, where i don't really see results (and i'm not talking about standardized tests), i feel like i have no option but to keep blind faith as i have, not listening to the little workbook voice.
making sense?
peace,
priscilla
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day,
that my child may have peace."
Thomas Paine
(1737-1809, Anglo-American political theorist and writer)
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
while your post was definitely insightful, and i am grateful that you took the time to response, there were two major assumptions made in your approach, which may apply to some, but do not apply to me:
1."It is a big waste of money - for an attentive
parent."
i'm not offended, nor did i take that personally -- i know you don't know me. however, i do need to clarify that i would definitely consider myself an attentive parent who, as an unschooler would, takes care to present the world, and everything in it, to my children as a gigantic place to learn. in retrospect, my husband and i were unschooling my six-year-old since the day she was born, counting to her in the five languages we know between us, without even knowing we were unschooling. it's just our parenting style.
2."many of their parents are so math phobic that they don't "naturally" support the math learning that would otherwise ordinarily happen in an unschooling family"
i majored in computer science, which by default in my case put me two math courses short from a double-major in math. after organic chemistry, math is my favorite subject. so the phobia issue also doesn't apply to me.
but i do still seek advice and wisdom from all of you who have been there, so i'll also clarify why, in my attempt to analyze myself, i have an ever-present nagging little voice reminding me to hit the books. i think it's more of an insurance -- making sure the minimums are met, they know what they're "supposed" to know, nothing will get left out, etc., so that we can get on with the business of doing the stuff we really enjoy without mom (ie me) having the anxiety that we're missing something somewhere. i think it may be kind of the same philosophy behind "teaching to the test."
i can guess what some of y'all's responses will be -- they'll learn, they don't need to be measured by society's standards but rather your own, their natural curiosity will lead them and you, etc.
i understand and agree wholeheartedly in principle. in the meantime, though, my confidence is lacking. sure i know i can look back when my kids are teens and adults and say, "oh, yeah, they learned." but when you're closer to the beginning of your journey as i am, where i don't really see results (and i'm not talking about standardized tests), i feel like i have no option but to keep blind faith as i have, not listening to the little workbook voice.
making sense?
peace,
priscilla
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day,
that my child may have peace."
Thomas Paine
(1737-1809, Anglo-American political theorist and writer)
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/11/04 8:23:26 AM, jnjstau@... writes:
<< Schools
and parents need the myths so they can hold your entire future ransom and
force you to jump through the hoops. >>
When I was 18 I figured out how to get my 15 year old sister into college
after she dropped out/was thrown out of 10th grade. If I could figure it out on
very short notice in 1971 or 1972, it should be LOADS easier now.
She had to take an ACT test and fill out an application. Then to stay in,
she had to do well the first term.
That was all.
Sandra
<< Schools
and parents need the myths so they can hold your entire future ransom and
force you to jump through the hoops. >>
When I was 18 I figured out how to get my 15 year old sister into college
after she dropped out/was thrown out of 10th grade. If I could figure it out on
very short notice in 1971 or 1972, it should be LOADS easier now.
She had to take an ACT test and fill out an application. Then to stay in,
she had to do well the first term.
That was all.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/11/04 10:40:19 AM, pamsoroosh@... writes:
<< There isn't anything in it that any child wouldn't come up with
just in the course of daily life - assuming a parent who puts some
effort into being with their kids and explaining things to them and
helping them understand things in a way that works for them. >>
Last night Holly was sitting on the floor near me messing with her hands and
said "It's so easy to count by nines and sixes."
I sputtered that I don't see how it's easy at all. She said but MOM, you
get... and she started on something about eights and sixes and my mind did that
white-light-freeze-out thing it does when someone says "just think
mathematically, it's easy!" and the light must have been coming out of my eyes, because
she said, "Mom you always think in tens. You and I see numbers so differently."
That is one damned fine thing, in my opinion, because in some ways I don't
see numbers at all.
Sandra
<< There isn't anything in it that any child wouldn't come up with
just in the course of daily life - assuming a parent who puts some
effort into being with their kids and explaining things to them and
helping them understand things in a way that works for them. >>
Last night Holly was sitting on the floor near me messing with her hands and
said "It's so easy to count by nines and sixes."
I sputtered that I don't see how it's easy at all. She said but MOM, you
get... and she started on something about eights and sixes and my mind did that
white-light-freeze-out thing it does when someone says "just think
mathematically, it's easy!" and the light must have been coming out of my eyes, because
she said, "Mom you always think in tens. You and I see numbers so differently."
That is one damned fine thing, in my opinion, because in some ways I don't
see numbers at all.
Sandra
Dawn Adams
Priscilla writes:
She's got a real head for math. Jigsaw puzzles and mazes are a breeze, she sees patterns everywhere, she has this sharp sense of logic and talent for analysing things that astounds me. She's exploring math in a way most kids never get to, which is, anyway she wants. For most kids math is about numbers and equations from day one, for my daughter its understood that that is only the language used to describe what goes on in real life. I'm hoping her exploration of math will be as much a creative pursuit as her dancing is. I know you aren't math phobic but maybe you've narrowed your view of it to what can be shown on paper? Really, the next time your child is designing a pattern for a friendship bracelet or using the building blocks to fence in a stuffed animal, take a look at the real math their using. You don't have to go on blind faith, you just have to start looking for the math that surrounds you everyday and see how big and fun a part it is of your kids' lives.
Dawn (who never got her grade 12 math, failed many, many tests, many times but is discovering she really has a talent for math and love of it herself)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>i understand and agree wholeheartedly in principle. in the meantime, though, my confidence is lacking. sure i know i >can look back when my kids are teens and adults and say, "oh, yeah, they learned." but when you're closer to the >beginning of your journey as i am, where i don't really see results (and i'm not talking about standardized tests), i >feel like i have no option but to keep blind faith as i have, not listening to the little workbook voice.I'm at the beginning too Priscilla and we have workbooks but they mostly sit on a shelf getting dusty. My daughter pulls them down every once in awhile for some fun (for her its in the same category as dot-to-dots and colouring books) but not often. I wouldn't mind if she never did.
She's got a real head for math. Jigsaw puzzles and mazes are a breeze, she sees patterns everywhere, she has this sharp sense of logic and talent for analysing things that astounds me. She's exploring math in a way most kids never get to, which is, anyway she wants. For most kids math is about numbers and equations from day one, for my daughter its understood that that is only the language used to describe what goes on in real life. I'm hoping her exploration of math will be as much a creative pursuit as her dancing is. I know you aren't math phobic but maybe you've narrowed your view of it to what can be shown on paper? Really, the next time your child is designing a pattern for a friendship bracelet or using the building blocks to fence in a stuffed animal, take a look at the real math their using. You don't have to go on blind faith, you just have to start looking for the math that surrounds you everyday and see how big and fun a part it is of your kids' lives.
Dawn (who never got her grade 12 math, failed many, many tests, many times but is discovering she really has a talent for math and love of it herself)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wife2Vegman
--- Dawn Adams <Wishbone@...> wrote:
demon voice to shut up.
You can't unschool everything except math. It just
doesn't work. Making your child do saxon every day or
every other day or twice a week or once a month is not
unschooling.
I had to tell the demon voice of math workbooks to
shut up several times last week. Like when my dad
started asking my 12yo if he had memorized his
multiplication tables yet. Like when my 14yo said she
was thinking about going to college and what did she
need to do.
When an older child chooses to do a math program on
their own, and it is self-initiated, then it is
unschooling, but little kids can and should learn all
their math through the environment at home.
Elementary school math, science, reading, history are
all taught with workbooks because there is no natural
home environment in a school. Why settle for
artificial when you can give your child rich, real
happy experiences?
Especially with your math background and language
background, you should not need to feel inadequate to
provide these.
If you keep reading at unschooling.com and
sandradodd.com and here, you won't feel like you are
going on blind faith, you will feel confident.
Read John Holt's Learning All The Time.
Read Nancy Wallace's Child's Work.
Read Pam Sorooshian's math site.
Read the book Family Math.
And tell that workbook voice to go away, just like
smeagol told gollum in The Two Towers. "Go away and
never come back!"
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
http://theeclectichomeschooler.homestead.com/TheEclecticHomeshooler.html
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> Priscilla writes:Yes, but you have to just tell the little workbook
> >i understand and agree wholeheartedly in principle.
> in the meantime, though, my confidence is lacking.
> sure i know i >can look back when my kids are teens
> and adults and say, "oh, yeah, they learned." but
> when you're closer to the >beginning of your journey
> as i am, where i don't really see results (and i'm
> not talking about standardized tests), i >feel like
> i have no option but to keep blind faith as i have,
> not listening to the little workbook voice.
demon voice to shut up.
You can't unschool everything except math. It just
doesn't work. Making your child do saxon every day or
every other day or twice a week or once a month is not
unschooling.
I had to tell the demon voice of math workbooks to
shut up several times last week. Like when my dad
started asking my 12yo if he had memorized his
multiplication tables yet. Like when my 14yo said she
was thinking about going to college and what did she
need to do.
When an older child chooses to do a math program on
their own, and it is self-initiated, then it is
unschooling, but little kids can and should learn all
their math through the environment at home.
Elementary school math, science, reading, history are
all taught with workbooks because there is no natural
home environment in a school. Why settle for
artificial when you can give your child rich, real
happy experiences?
Especially with your math background and language
background, you should not need to feel inadequate to
provide these.
If you keep reading at unschooling.com and
sandradodd.com and here, you won't feel like you are
going on blind faith, you will feel confident.
Read John Holt's Learning All The Time.
Read Nancy Wallace's Child's Work.
Read Pam Sorooshian's math site.
Read the book Family Math.
And tell that workbook voice to go away, just like
smeagol told gollum in The Two Towers. "Go away and
never come back!"
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
http://theeclectichomeschooler.homestead.com/TheEclecticHomeshooler.html
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/11/04 2:54:40 PM, ummhjm@... writes:
<< in retrospect, my husband and i were unschooling my six-year-old since
the day she was born, counting to her in the five languages we know between us,
without even knowing we were unschooling. it's just our parenting style. >>
If you didn't understand Pam's statement, though, there are things about
unschooling I think you have yet to understand. If you believe in any dark part
of you that your daughter can't learn math without a math course, you shouldn't
claim to have been unschooling. And for anyone, "since the day she was born"
was not a time you had an option not to put her in compulsory government
school, and so you probably were and should be proud of having been attentive and
giving parents, but I wouldn't claim unschooling before school age personally.
-=-i majored in computer science, which by default in my case put me two math
courses short from a double-major in math. -=-
It also puts you in the likely space of believing that math instruction is
vital.
-=- i have an ever-present nagging little voice reminding me to hit the
books. -=-
We're trying to help you breathe through that and see the learning outside
the books.
-=-without mom (ie me) having the anxiety that we're missing something
somewhere. -=-
Run through in your mind everyone you know and whether any of them missed
something somewhere. No matter what school experience a person has, something
is missed. Some have teachers who loved 18th C. literature so they've read
fifteen novels from that time and as many poems. Some read zip from that
century. Neither will suffer longterm emotional or financial harm from that.
Anyone who didn't grow up in New Mexico missed a year of New Mexico history,
but if they're curious or if they move here and want to be more conversant, a
few hours' reading can catch them up on some causes, names and timelines, and
if any of it strikes their curiosity up they can spend hours to a lifetime
learning more.
If I move to another state, I'm sure I'll try to figure out where I am and
why others are there.
-=-i can guess what some of y'all's responses will be -- they'll learn, they
don't need to be measured by society's standards but rather your own-=-
Not even your own. Someday you'll stop measuring, if you don't give up in
fear before then.
Occasionally I see a lack in one of my kids. But way more than occasionally
I see a stunning maturity or ability or experience I know they would not have
had if they had been in school. And I have never yet seen a lack I thought
couldn't be overcome with a little practice or inquiry later.
Marty is fifteen and is at the moment in his third of ten driver's ed
classroom sessions. The only slightly schoolish thing he had ever done before was a
weeklong intense Jr. Police Academy, last summer.
Marty was afraid he wouldn't be able to take notes fast enough. He sat and
wrote things one night, practicing writing quickly and legibly. He's
blockprinting. I asked if it would help to hold his notebook this way or that, but he
said no, he was on it as was.
Marty's a lefty. He's good at spatial reasoning and mathish stuff. Puzzles.
He can do any of those little nine-square puzzles in a minute. I've never
finished one in my life. We quit buying them for him. $6 or $8 apiece, and he
works them in a minute or two.
If Marty had been in school, he and we would have heard the word "dyslexic"
many times, but Marty never heard it once unless he heard it from friends of
his or on TV. It didn't matter, because we didn't press him to do anything
before he just figured out how to do it. He would have had to figure out his own
way to do it at school anyway.
Monday night they gave a pre-test. He missed four. Three were because he
misread a question. It was asked (in what exact words I don't know) for them to
indicate which thing was not needed in the car when driving. The right
answer would have been the car's title. Marty had two disadvantages. He was
unaware of testing traditions and set-ups. He read it as "what do you need when
you're driving" and marked all but one answer.
His main problem was not knowing that multiple choice questions generally
only have one answer (and certainly on a ten-item test). So he got three points
off on one item. <g>
He still got his learner's permit, and he didn't know what the title of an
automobile was anyway. Neither did the other kids, but they knew enough from
having taken tests for years that the one thing they'd never heard of was "the
right answer."
Because he missed it, though, we told him about what automobile titles are
and why they shouldn't be carried in the car. He and Keith had watched a movie
about racing for titles, and Keith reminded him that's what they are. Oh!
I doubt any of the other kids, who got it right, discussed car titles when
they got home. Maybe.
The very small list of things that schools consider "everything" is not worth
basing a life on. If I lived my life so that my children would have that
set of information, they would be missing much more information. The small set
they can pick up later. The larger, no-walls wide-world set of information
seems to them theirs. They don't know what is "too old" or "too young" or "too
hard" for them. They learn what they learn. They ask what they wonder. If
later they want to checklist themselves on what they might have missed in
school, it won't take long.
-=-sure i know i can look back when my kids are teens and adults and say,
"oh, yeah, they learned." -=-
It will help if you can find other people's older kids and just hang out with
them. Don't quiz them, just look into their eyes. Listen to them interacting
with other kids and adults. Let the differences wash over you. <g>
Sandra
<< in retrospect, my husband and i were unschooling my six-year-old since
the day she was born, counting to her in the five languages we know between us,
without even knowing we were unschooling. it's just our parenting style. >>
If you didn't understand Pam's statement, though, there are things about
unschooling I think you have yet to understand. If you believe in any dark part
of you that your daughter can't learn math without a math course, you shouldn't
claim to have been unschooling. And for anyone, "since the day she was born"
was not a time you had an option not to put her in compulsory government
school, and so you probably were and should be proud of having been attentive and
giving parents, but I wouldn't claim unschooling before school age personally.
-=-i majored in computer science, which by default in my case put me two math
courses short from a double-major in math. -=-
It also puts you in the likely space of believing that math instruction is
vital.
-=- i have an ever-present nagging little voice reminding me to hit the
books. -=-
We're trying to help you breathe through that and see the learning outside
the books.
-=-without mom (ie me) having the anxiety that we're missing something
somewhere. -=-
Run through in your mind everyone you know and whether any of them missed
something somewhere. No matter what school experience a person has, something
is missed. Some have teachers who loved 18th C. literature so they've read
fifteen novels from that time and as many poems. Some read zip from that
century. Neither will suffer longterm emotional or financial harm from that.
Anyone who didn't grow up in New Mexico missed a year of New Mexico history,
but if they're curious or if they move here and want to be more conversant, a
few hours' reading can catch them up on some causes, names and timelines, and
if any of it strikes their curiosity up they can spend hours to a lifetime
learning more.
If I move to another state, I'm sure I'll try to figure out where I am and
why others are there.
-=-i can guess what some of y'all's responses will be -- they'll learn, they
don't need to be measured by society's standards but rather your own-=-
Not even your own. Someday you'll stop measuring, if you don't give up in
fear before then.
Occasionally I see a lack in one of my kids. But way more than occasionally
I see a stunning maturity or ability or experience I know they would not have
had if they had been in school. And I have never yet seen a lack I thought
couldn't be overcome with a little practice or inquiry later.
Marty is fifteen and is at the moment in his third of ten driver's ed
classroom sessions. The only slightly schoolish thing he had ever done before was a
weeklong intense Jr. Police Academy, last summer.
Marty was afraid he wouldn't be able to take notes fast enough. He sat and
wrote things one night, practicing writing quickly and legibly. He's
blockprinting. I asked if it would help to hold his notebook this way or that, but he
said no, he was on it as was.
Marty's a lefty. He's good at spatial reasoning and mathish stuff. Puzzles.
He can do any of those little nine-square puzzles in a minute. I've never
finished one in my life. We quit buying them for him. $6 or $8 apiece, and he
works them in a minute or two.
If Marty had been in school, he and we would have heard the word "dyslexic"
many times, but Marty never heard it once unless he heard it from friends of
his or on TV. It didn't matter, because we didn't press him to do anything
before he just figured out how to do it. He would have had to figure out his own
way to do it at school anyway.
Monday night they gave a pre-test. He missed four. Three were because he
misread a question. It was asked (in what exact words I don't know) for them to
indicate which thing was not needed in the car when driving. The right
answer would have been the car's title. Marty had two disadvantages. He was
unaware of testing traditions and set-ups. He read it as "what do you need when
you're driving" and marked all but one answer.
His main problem was not knowing that multiple choice questions generally
only have one answer (and certainly on a ten-item test). So he got three points
off on one item. <g>
He still got his learner's permit, and he didn't know what the title of an
automobile was anyway. Neither did the other kids, but they knew enough from
having taken tests for years that the one thing they'd never heard of was "the
right answer."
Because he missed it, though, we told him about what automobile titles are
and why they shouldn't be carried in the car. He and Keith had watched a movie
about racing for titles, and Keith reminded him that's what they are. Oh!
I doubt any of the other kids, who got it right, discussed car titles when
they got home. Maybe.
The very small list of things that schools consider "everything" is not worth
basing a life on. If I lived my life so that my children would have that
set of information, they would be missing much more information. The small set
they can pick up later. The larger, no-walls wide-world set of information
seems to them theirs. They don't know what is "too old" or "too young" or "too
hard" for them. They learn what they learn. They ask what they wonder. If
later they want to checklist themselves on what they might have missed in
school, it won't take long.
-=-sure i know i can look back when my kids are teens and adults and say,
"oh, yeah, they learned." -=-
It will help if you can find other people's older kids and just hang out with
them. Don't quiz them, just look into their eyes. Listen to them interacting
with other kids and adults. Let the differences wash over you. <g>
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/11/04 3:16:20 PM, Wishbone@... writes:
<< the next time your child is designing a pattern for a friendship bracelet
or using the building blocks to fence in a stuffed animal, take a look at the
real math their using >>
But don't mention it to them!
Sandra
<< the next time your child is designing a pattern for a friendship bracelet
or using the building blocks to fence in a stuffed animal, take a look at the
real math their using >>
But don't mention it to them!
Sandra
Dawn Adams
-
I wrote:
<< the next time your child is designing a pattern for a friendship bracelet
or using the building blocks to fence in a stuffed animal, take a look at the
real math their using >>
Sandra replied:
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I wrote:
<< the next time your child is designing a pattern for a friendship bracelet
or using the building blocks to fence in a stuffed animal, take a look at the
real math their using >>
Sandra replied:
>But don't mention it to them!Yes! I've done that and it completely ruins their magic in playing and mine in watching it. :)
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 2/11/04 3:26 PM, Priscilla Martinez at ummhjm@... wrote:
to deal with it so you can get on with unschooling.
This list is sort of the no-excuses room. ;-) We've *all* got barriers of
one form or another that stand between us and where we want to be. This is a
place to get advice and discuss what to do about the barriers rather than
comfort and understanding over the barriers' existence.
drawn to an orderly, linear type of learning. Knowing that what you need to
know is all laid out in step by step order is very comforting.
For another thing, being aware of all the math you "needed" to go through to
get where you ended up, it's hard to imagine it being gotten in anyway but
through textbooks.
(I was an electrical engineer major, BTW.)
side telling us you're just human not a fish like the rest of us ;-) so we
just have to understand where you are and why you aren't swimming around
like we are.
doing something yourself: reading here, reading the message boards at
Unschooling.com, reading Sandra's website. There are ways to gain that
confidence. But you need to focus on fixing that problem, not the made up
problem of your children not providing you with the feedback you need.
Joyce
> so i'll also clarify why, in my attempt to analyze myself, i have anUnschooling isn't about not having that voice in your head. It's about how
> ever-present nagging little voice reminding me to hit the books.
to deal with it so you can get on with unschooling.
This list is sort of the no-excuses room. ;-) We've *all* got barriers of
one form or another that stand between us and where we want to be. This is a
place to get advice and discuss what to do about the barriers rather than
comfort and understanding over the barriers' existence.
> i majored in computer science, which by default in my case put me two mathIn some ways that can be a detriment. For one thing, those who like math are
> courses short from a double-major in math. after organic chemistry, math is
> my favorite subject. so the phobia issue also doesn't apply to me.
drawn to an orderly, linear type of learning. Knowing that what you need to
know is all laid out in step by step order is very comforting.
For another thing, being aware of all the math you "needed" to go through to
get where you ended up, it's hard to imagine it being gotten in anyway but
through textbooks.
(I was an electrical engineer major, BTW.)
> i can guess what some of y'all's responses will be -- they'll learn, theyNo, because that's not where you're stuck. You're stuck holding onto the
> don't need to be measured by society's standards but rather your own, their
> natural curiosity will lead them and you, etc.
side telling us you're just human not a fish like the rest of us ;-) so we
just have to understand where you are and why you aren't swimming around
like we are.
> in the meantime, though, my confidence is lacking.And the way to get over that isn't by making your kids do things. It's by
doing something yourself: reading here, reading the message boards at
Unschooling.com, reading Sandra's website. There are ways to gain that
confidence. But you need to focus on fixing that problem, not the made up
problem of your children not providing you with the feedback you need.
Joyce
pam sorooshian
On Feb 11, 2004, at 12:26 PM, Priscilla Martinez wrote:
and that anything anybody writes on this list can be used as a starting
point for discussion, without it being personal.
These materials are NOT inexpensive. I still think that those early
grade Saxon kits are a waste of money and there is a good chance you
eventually agree, as you see how they learn so much better when they
learn on their own timetable instead of John Saxon's.
If you've only cracked the books about 10 times, you're not doing it
the "Saxon Way," anyway, you know, since you're supposed to be doing a
"Daily Meeting," etc.
In case people are now wondering what the subjects are in Saxon - that
I say you will almost certainly "cover" in your daily life with your
kids ----- here is a description of Saxon Kindergarten:
oral counting; recognizing and sequencing numbers; identifying ordinal
position; acting out addition and subtraction stories; counting with
one-to-one correspondence; sorting; patterning; graphing real objects
and pictures; identifying and counting pennies, nickels, and dimes;
identifying one half; identifying shapes; covering and replicating
geometric designs; measuring using nonstandard units of measure;
telling time to the hour; and using a calendar.
There is a huge amount of repetition built in even in the lower grade
levels - so they cover how to count money in kindergarten and then
again in 1st grade, 2nd grade, and then finally in 3rd grade they get
to how to make change from a dollar.
I don't know about you all, but calendars and money and counting
numbers, and figuring out who is "first" and "second" (ordinal
position), and all the above happened very naturally in my kids' lives.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> i understand and agree wholeheartedly in principle. in the meantime,Thank you for understanding that I wasn't making assumptions about you
> though, my confidence is lacking. sure i know i can look back when my
> kids are teens and adults and say, "oh, yeah, they learned." but when
> you're closer to the beginning of your journey as i am, where i don't
> really see results (and i'm not talking about standardized tests), i
> feel like i have no option but to keep blind faith as i have, not
> listening to the little workbook voice.
>
> making sense?
and that anything anybody writes on this list can be used as a starting
point for discussion, without it being personal.
These materials are NOT inexpensive. I still think that those early
grade Saxon kits are a waste of money and there is a good chance you
eventually agree, as you see how they learn so much better when they
learn on their own timetable instead of John Saxon's.
If you've only cracked the books about 10 times, you're not doing it
the "Saxon Way," anyway, you know, since you're supposed to be doing a
"Daily Meeting," etc.
In case people are now wondering what the subjects are in Saxon - that
I say you will almost certainly "cover" in your daily life with your
kids ----- here is a description of Saxon Kindergarten:
oral counting; recognizing and sequencing numbers; identifying ordinal
position; acting out addition and subtraction stories; counting with
one-to-one correspondence; sorting; patterning; graphing real objects
and pictures; identifying and counting pennies, nickels, and dimes;
identifying one half; identifying shapes; covering and replicating
geometric designs; measuring using nonstandard units of measure;
telling time to the hour; and using a calendar.
There is a huge amount of repetition built in even in the lower grade
levels - so they cover how to count money in kindergarten and then
again in 1st grade, 2nd grade, and then finally in 3rd grade they get
to how to make change from a dollar.
I don't know about you all, but calendars and money and counting
numbers, and figuring out who is "first" and "second" (ordinal
position), and all the above happened very naturally in my kids' lives.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
pam sorooshian
On Feb 11, 2004, at 3:38 PM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
the guy told her. But she asked if she could see which questions, if
any, she'd missed. He pulled her paper out and said, "Nobody who PASSES
ever asks, only those who don't pass."
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> I doubt any of the other kids, who got it right, discussed car titlesWhen Roya took her driving test for her license, she passed. That's all
> when
> they got home. Maybe.
the guy told her. But she asked if she could see which questions, if
any, she'd missed. He pulled her paper out and said, "Nobody who PASSES
ever asks, only those who don't pass."
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Wife2Vegman
--- pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
Aaron's 6th birthday is at the end of March, and he
was standing in the kitchen yesterday looking at the
calendar.
"What year is it?" he asked.
"It is 2004. Did you mean what month is it?"
"Yes, what month is it?"
"It is February."
"Is it time for my birthday yet?"
"No, your birthday is in March."
"Next day?"
"No, next month. Want to see how many days?"
"Yeah"
Took the calendar off the wall, and showed him Feb.
11th, and flipped the page and showed him his
birthday.
He only wanted to count the days in March, so we
started counting.
"Hey! The numbers we are saying are the same as the
numbers in each box!"
So, pointing to each number he said the names, as we
went along, until he got to thirteen and stumbled a
bit. So I just said what the numbers were while he
pointed until we got to more numbers he recognized.
But by the time we got to 25 he was upset that there
were still so many days until his birthday. LOL!
computer, which is matching chinese characters,
patterns, and numbers on tiles.
We also baked cookies yesterday, putting the cookie
dough out on the sheet and deciding how many cookies
each person would get. We made patterns on top of the
cookie dough with chocolate chips, too.
Built a large building with legos, counted one side
with the legos so he would know how many of the same
color to use on the other side.
wants to know when Ed, Edd, and Eddy comes on at 2pm,
and when the KidsWB afternoon shows start at 3pm.
He also knows 1/2 hours, because most shows for kids
are only 30 minutes long.
gosh, guess we don't have to do any more math for the
rest of the school year ;-) , and we did it all in one
day.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
http://theeclectichomeschooler.homestead.com/TheEclecticHomeshooler.html
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
>Math that my "kindergartener" did yesterday:
> In case people are now wondering what the subjects
> are in Saxon - that
> I say you will almost certainly "cover" in your
> daily life with your
> kids ----- here is a description of Saxon
> Kindergarten:
> oral counting; recognizing and sequencing numbers;
> identifying ordinal
> position; and using a calendar
Aaron's 6th birthday is at the end of March, and he
was standing in the kitchen yesterday looking at the
calendar.
"What year is it?" he asked.
"It is 2004. Did you mean what month is it?"
"Yes, what month is it?"
"It is February."
"Is it time for my birthday yet?"
"No, your birthday is in March."
"Next day?"
"No, next month. Want to see how many days?"
"Yeah"
Took the calendar off the wall, and showed him Feb.
11th, and flipped the page and showed him his
birthday.
He only wanted to count the days in March, so we
started counting.
"Hey! The numbers we are saying are the same as the
numbers in each box!"
So, pointing to each number he said the names, as we
went along, until he got to thirteen and stumbled a
bit. So I just said what the numbers were while he
pointed until we got to more numbers he recognized.
But by the time we got to 25 he was upset that there
were still so many days until his birthday. LOL!
> acting out addition and subtractionLast night we played mahjong solitaire on the
> stories; counting with
> one-to-one correspondence; sorting; patterning;
computer, which is matching chinese characters,
patterns, and numbers on tiles.
We also baked cookies yesterday, putting the cookie
dough out on the sheet and deciding how many cookies
each person would get. We made patterns on top of the
cookie dough with chocolate chips, too.
> graphing real objectsLegos!
> and pictures; identifying shapes; covering
> and replicating
> geometric designs; measuring using nonstandard units
> of measure;
Built a large building with legos, counted one side
with the legos so he would know how many of the same
color to use on the other side.
> telling time to the hour; .He's been doing that since he was four because he
wants to know when Ed, Edd, and Eddy comes on at 2pm,
and when the KidsWB afternoon shows start at 3pm.
He also knows 1/2 hours, because most shows for kids
are only 30 minutes long.
gosh, guess we don't have to do any more math for the
rest of the school year ;-) , and we did it all in one
day.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
http://theeclectichomeschooler.homestead.com/TheEclecticHomeshooler.html
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Holly Selden
I'd known about unschooling for years. A friend had told me about it and I knew his daughter and how I adored her.
When the decision for me to take my kids out of school came, I wrestled with it. I *wanted* to unschool..but I had a lot of fears.
The first day that I tried to sit Madison down to "do work" and saw the look on his face. It was pain. It was anxiety. It was him saying "So you took me out of school to do this??? Is this love????"
I haven't been at this that long. Really...a very short time. In the last couple of weeks, the things I've witnessed by child-led learning. Yesterday, he pulled out a set of subtraction flash cards and said to my 5yo "Max, you wanna learn subtraction? I have an idea for a math game!!!".
I didn't give him that idea. I didn't even realize the flashcards were buried somewhere in his room. In the process of finding them, he not only got a little math in, but made up a game for his younger brother!
My workbook voice got killed when I saw that look on his face...it's been getting quieter every day as I watch them learning. Sure, most times, the first thing out of his mouth in the morning is "Can I play the PS2???". My little gamer (gee, wonder where he gets it *whistles*).
Jump in, Priscilla! The water's fine. It's really amazing the things they'll want to learn.
When the decision for me to take my kids out of school came, I wrestled with it. I *wanted* to unschool..but I had a lot of fears.
The first day that I tried to sit Madison down to "do work" and saw the look on his face. It was pain. It was anxiety. It was him saying "So you took me out of school to do this??? Is this love????"
I haven't been at this that long. Really...a very short time. In the last couple of weeks, the things I've witnessed by child-led learning. Yesterday, he pulled out a set of subtraction flash cards and said to my 5yo "Max, you wanna learn subtraction? I have an idea for a math game!!!".
I didn't give him that idea. I didn't even realize the flashcards were buried somewhere in his room. In the process of finding them, he not only got a little math in, but made up a game for his younger brother!
My workbook voice got killed when I saw that look on his face...it's been getting quieter every day as I watch them learning. Sure, most times, the first thing out of his mouth in the morning is "Can I play the PS2???". My little gamer (gee, wonder where he gets it *whistles*).
Jump in, Priscilla! The water's fine. It's really amazing the things they'll want to learn.
----- Original Message -----
From: Wife2Vegman
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] unschooling math and saxon
--- Dawn Adams <Wishbone@...> wrote:
Yes, but you have to just tell the little workbook
demon voice to shut up.
You can't unschool everything except math. It just
doesn't work. Making your child do saxon every day or
every other day or twice a week or once a month is not
unschooling.
I had to tell the demon voice of math workbooks to
shut up several times last week. Like when my dad
started asking my 12yo if he had memorized his
multiplication tables yet. Like when my 14yo said she
was thinking about going to college and what did she
need to do.
When an older child chooses to do a math program on
their own, and it is self-initiated, then it is
unschooling, but little kids can and should learn all
their math through the environment at home.
Elementary school math, science, reading, history are
all taught with workbooks because there is no natural
home environment in a school. Why settle for
artificial when you can give your child rich, real
happy experiences?
Especially with your math background and language
background, you should not need to feel inadequate to
provide these.
If you keep reading at unschooling.com and
sandradodd.com and here, you won't feel like you are
going on blind faith, you will feel confident.
Read John Holt's Learning All The Time.
Read Nancy Wallace's Child's Work.
Read Pam Sorooshian's math site.
Read the book Family Math.
And tell that workbook voice to go away, just like
smeagol told gollum in The Two Towers. "Go away and
never come back!"
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]