[email protected]

In a message dated 2/6/2004 1:44:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tjreynoso@... writes:
Maybe you could think of all those repeated questions as training
for new "experienced" unschoolers. It gives someone else to get
their feet wet. And the "big guns" can handle the tough ones.<<<<<<


Good point! <BWG> VERY good point! Doesn't make it any less tiring, but
excellent point! Thanks!

I've also noticed recently that a few of the oldies are MIA, but then I've
seen Susan and Sylvia and Sheila and a few others hitting the questions with
excellent responses!

OK, you've made me feel better!
~Kelly


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[email protected]

>>>>>>>>In a message dated 2/7/2004 12:15:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
Nobody is doing that, Rachel, are they? This was somebody wondering
about how people learn - noticing the phenomenon of people saying
they'd read a lot and yet asking basic questions that it seems they
would have learned from their reading. It happens frequently. It is
interesting to think about why it happens. It doesn't mean that us
"oldtimers" are burned out and resentful and sending newbies away.<<<<<<



That was probably MY post! <G>

I DID burn out and go away!

I'm back! <G> Maybe I should have waited!

I've seen others come and go these last few years. We have a lot of "new
experienced" unschoolers right now giving out good advice. I'm glad. I enjoyed
watching them as I shut up for a while.

The original letter that Sandra posted WAS saying that it can be frustrating
to watch the same questions be asked again and again after the newbies have
already said they've read and read. Then I went on *my* tirade! <G>

It IS an interesting phenomenon: why do people feel that they need to repeat
a common question? The original thoughts were laziness and ....what? I can't
remember.

Looked it up:

"Some claim to have done LOTS of reading, but then still ask a repeat
question. So, do you think this is due to laziness and they were lying about
doing a
lot of reading, or are some people simply unable to relate to what's being
said unless it's said directly to them? I know these aren't the only two
possibilities, but they seem the most likely to me."

Maybe they're just products of the school system and can't seem to gather the
info any other way. Direct questioning.

As an unschooler, I prefer to go straight to the source. So I understand that
part. And like many of my school classmates, I didn't want to be laughed at
if I asked a "stupid question". So maybe *I* had no problem reading the entire
unschooling.comedy message boards for three months (and keeping up on all new
messages) before I posted my first word! (I remember what it was, too! It
wasn't all that bright! <G> But I understood it by then!)

I was always in awe of my friend, George, who would ask *anything*---no
matter HOW stupid----if he didn't understand it! Frequently, it was the same
question I was thinking about but was afraid to ask. But I just figured I could look
it up later. George had the balls (well, yeah!) to ask then and there.

So maybe it has to do with (yikes!) school and how we felt about asking for
help---or with our personalities. It takes a lot for me to ask a question that
I could look up on my own. So if I ask something---just know I'm SWEATING it
out as I type! <g>

~Kelly


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[email protected]

In a message dated 2/6/2004 7:23:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tjreynoso@... writes:
As for "why" we ask the questions even though we've read, it's human
nature. We need to feel special. Like "our" situation is
different. Also, even though I've read several unschooling books and
devoured the websites, they still don't replace "personal"
information. When I read about someone's experience in a book they
seem distant, less believable. It's different to come on a site or
hear a voice tell you the same thing. You KNOW they exist because you
can see or hear them. But since almost anyone can write a book about
anything, it seems less believable. <<<<<


Sounds like the *perfect* time to remind people to be sure to be at the Live
& Learn Unschooling Conference this August in Peabody, MA. You'll get to SEE
these people in action with their children and actually ask direct questions.
They'll be even MORE real IRL! <G>

Don't miss it! www.liveandlearnconference.org

~Kelly


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[email protected]

In a message dated 2/7/2004 11:17:35 AM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> It was more along the lines of (using this analogy) why would someone come
> and say "I've read The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding twice. So is weaning a
>
> baby at six months okay? Don't you need to put the on a schedule?"
>
> Did they not read it?
> Did they move their eyes back and forth school-style so they could say they
> 'read it' (school-style)?
>

Could it be because something written spans time, people still want to know
if real people in the here and now believe in the idea.
Laura


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[email protected]

Personally, I just like to talk about new ideas with anyone who will listen,
well let me restate that, I want to talk about it with someone who understands
what I am talking about and will help me talk it through. Sometimes that is
on a list and sometimes it is in person or on the phone.

I just need it, I do read whatever I can on whatever I am interested in but
then I need real life application so to speak. When we first started hsing I
read everything I could find on the subject. I have since found out that not
everyone goes that route but that is the way I always do it. The Internet has
been a blessing to me, I always used the library and bookstores before but the
Internet is like brain ice-cream.

Anyhow, I read the books but hsing at our house at first did not resemble any
of the books or not that I could see. I had pulled kids out of school and
they were not wide eyed and eager to learn. I felt like a failure and I was
terrified my DH would make me put them back in school. I needed someone to reassure
me that we would be OK.
Our hsing life still does not resemble any picture I had in my mind when I
first started and had read all about hsing. Maybe people just need help
translating what they read into their real life family, I know I did.
Laura


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>>>>>In a message dated 2/7/2004 12:50:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
BonKnit@... writes:
Could it be because something written spans time, people still want to know
if real people in the here and now believe in the idea.<<<<<

As opposed to last week?

~Kelly


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In a message dated 2/7/2004 12:06:20 PM Central Standard Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:


> As opposed to last week?
>

I was thinking more along the lines of books or articles (which could have
also been written last week) as opposed to the list, I should have clarified
that.
Laura


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[email protected]

>>>>>In a message dated 2/7/2004 1:30:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
BonKnit@... writes:As opposed to last week?
>
I was thinking more along the lines of books or articles (which could have
also been written last week) as opposed to the list, I should have clarified
that.<<<<<



I know, but that was the point. People say that they've read here or on the
message boards and STILL ask the same questions.

The question Sandra asked was WHY?

The same "old-timers" will answer the same questions again----just from
different newbies.

What causes that? Is it laziness? or are they lying? Those were the two
original thoughts.Or is it a need for it to be specific to a certain situation? a
certain person? the personal touch?

~Kelly


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[email protected]

In a message dated 2/7/2004 12:43:36 PM Central Standard Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:


> The same "old-timers" will answer the same questions again----just from
> different newbies.
>

I see the same thing happen on many lists. Just this week on our Ohio list we
got the same question about where to find activities from two different
people. (Same sex, same age kids, etc.) I do understand because I get tired of
that, I wish they would at least read back a week in the archives but many don't.
Maybe they don't know how, I don't know, I answered again.

We also get people all of the time who join the list and want from step one
how to hs. I finally put together a form email I send them and tell them to
read what's at the links I am sending and then come back with their more detailed
questions. I have noticed that not a lot of people answer anymore, I figure
it is answering burnout. I will sometimes wait to see if someone else will
answer but if no one does I do.
Rambling,
Laura


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[email protected]

In a message dated 2/7/2004 12:43:36 PM Central Standard Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:


> What causes that? Is it laziness? or are they lying?

Immediate gratification?
Laura


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[email protected]

In a message dated 2/7/2004 2:03:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, BonKnit@...
writes:
> What causes that? Is it laziness? or are they lying?

Immediate gratification?<<<<<<

I'd think waiting for replies would *delay* gratification. Faster to just
read archives and old threads!

~Kelly


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[email protected]

In a message dated 2/7/04 11:43:36 AM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:

<< The question Sandra asked was WHY? >>

Well I passed on someone else's question.
My first guess was "they're used to being spoonfed."
But I hoped others would have nicer answers and they did!

One thing I truly think is that what we some people call "reading" is not
what other people consider to be reading. I'm reading "What's Eating Gilbert
Grape." If someone asks me a question, I might not know the answer, like which
scene came before another or what a character's name is, or how old one or the
other was when the dad died, etc. But if I were going to go to a Gilbert
Grape discussion board I would maybe read it again, and more carefully, before I
said "I've read the book and I thought..." Or I would be folding down more
corners and putting stars by more passages.

But in school if a teacher "makes you read" a book, don't lots of people just
kind of scan it line by line, turn the page, scan kind of sounding out the
words in your head like you're reading aloud to yourself without even TRYING to
think about what the important parts are or what the author was trying to
convey?

I think there's a school-kind of reading which is "read the chapter and
answer the questions." The really bright kids tended to read the questions first
and then scan for the answers. I liked to read it first and see if I could
answer the questions without looking back (as if it were a test) but I rarely
could. I would have never denied having "read it" though, because as schools had
defined reading, if I dragged my eyes over every line without skipping a
line, I had "read."

"Comprehension," now, that was a whole different skill (at school).

And maybe that's why I'm so calm about my (weird?) idea that phonetic
sounding out isn't reading, ONLY comprehension is reading.

Sandra

kayb85

> Well I passed on someone else's question.
> My first guess was "they're used to being spoonfed."
> But I hoped others would have nicer answers and they did!

I think that's probably right in a lot of cases. I hate to admit it,
but it was probably somewhat true in my case.

It IS frustrating. I see it on other boards even more than I see it
here. But once someone has been "school damaged" to the point where
she can only learn if she's spoon fed, will she ever get on the path
of good unschooling if someone doesn't start her out by spoonfeeding
her?

The person who needs to be spoonfed doesn't think she has a problem.
She likely went to school and got very good grades and thinks of
herself as an intelligent person. Maybe she wants to learn about
unschooling but doesn't know how if someone doesn't spoonfeed her.

Sheila

Melissa

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:

<<I think there's a school-kind of reading which is "read the
chapter and answer the questions." The really bright kids tended to
read the questions first and then scan for the answers. I liked to
read it first and see if I could answer the questions without
looking back (as if it were a test) but I rarely could.>>

I love to read and always have. I will read anything that strikes
my interest, from romantic fiction to non-fiction. I have shelves
of books that I have yet to get to but know that I will love, when I
get the chance to read them. Having those shelves doesn't stop me
from buying any other book that I think I'll like to read at some
time. Right now I am reading 3 books....Dumbing Us Down, Who's
Looking Out For You, and People of the Earth (thank you to whom ever
on this list suggested that series, I'm loving them).

My reason for posting is this point. I was in the advanced classes
in HS. In my english classes, we had to read 3 books during the
summer and write reports on them. Most of the kids would skim the
books and turn in a basic report. Not me, I loved to read anyway
so, I read the books, enjoyed them, and would turn in these really
detailed long reports. I would stay after school or class and
discuss my thoughts about the books with my teachers. When I was in
the 11th grade, we were assigned a book that I had already read.
When I told my teacher that I had already read it, he told me to
pick any other book by that same author and do the report on that
one. He even let me leave class and read the book while they were
discussing the one that I had already read. I did the report,
turned it in and discussed it with him after class.

I guess I'm not really sure what my point was. :) Except that my
teachers tended to leave me alone and lot (knowing that I would get
the work done). As a result, I really learned the subject instead
of learing for the test and then forgetting it (like most the kids
in my classes did).

Melissa