Need advice...
Erika Nunn
Hello all...once again, I am in need of some of your advice regarding my
three-year-old daughter (just turned 3 in December). The past couple of
months, whenever we go to to certain people's houses, she acts really
strangely. For example, today I took her to my mom's house to pick
something up. She gets infuriated when my mother tries to talk to her,
which is usually in that faky grandmom-type way, or she talks right in her
face (she clings to me, or hides her head, or tries to hit my mom and puts
on her spiteful, angry face). She also tends to really cling to me the
whole time, and sometimes she will get kind of rude to me, talking in a
snotty way. (I hate using those words, but that is how she comes across.)
Now, when I take her to some people's houses, she is totally fine. She
sticks to me at first, but then goes off and is quite happy. Let me mention
that the people that she is fine with are also much more child sensitive, as
in they don't rush over and greet her - they just give her space and time to
open up at her own pace. In addition, she is usually very outgoing when
around strangers, so it does not seem that she is worried in those
situations.
So, my questions are....do you think that this behaviour will pass on its
own? Right now I keep her on my lap if she wants to be there, and if she
acts rudely to me or my mom, I tell her that she may not talk that way, but
she may tell the person that, "I don't want to talk right now, please."
Another example was today when she was clinging to me and hiding her head,
my sister said to her, "Sophia! Soooophiaaaaaa??? You with the blonde
hair?! I want to ask you a question?" It was very obvious that my daughter
did not want to respond, and so I told my sister that. This is usually met
with, "But I just wanted to ask her a question," or "But I'm her
grandmother." Another example was that my father tried to talk to her (this
time he was okay, but in the past he has been known to pester her), and she
threw her head up in the air as if to ignore him and stomped off.
Also, I think that this is more of a problem with my mom (and sister), as I
have asked them repeatedly to not go to her, but to let her go to them on
her own time. So my other question is, how do I politely, yet firmly, tell
my mother and sister that she doesn't HAVE to talk to them or run over and
give them a hug? How do I make sure that her personal boundaries are being
respected, while at the same time making sure she is not being outright rude
to me or other people?
I am confused. Thanks for the help!
Erika :)
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three-year-old daughter (just turned 3 in December). The past couple of
months, whenever we go to to certain people's houses, she acts really
strangely. For example, today I took her to my mom's house to pick
something up. She gets infuriated when my mother tries to talk to her,
which is usually in that faky grandmom-type way, or she talks right in her
face (she clings to me, or hides her head, or tries to hit my mom and puts
on her spiteful, angry face). She also tends to really cling to me the
whole time, and sometimes she will get kind of rude to me, talking in a
snotty way. (I hate using those words, but that is how she comes across.)
Now, when I take her to some people's houses, she is totally fine. She
sticks to me at first, but then goes off and is quite happy. Let me mention
that the people that she is fine with are also much more child sensitive, as
in they don't rush over and greet her - they just give her space and time to
open up at her own pace. In addition, she is usually very outgoing when
around strangers, so it does not seem that she is worried in those
situations.
So, my questions are....do you think that this behaviour will pass on its
own? Right now I keep her on my lap if she wants to be there, and if she
acts rudely to me or my mom, I tell her that she may not talk that way, but
she may tell the person that, "I don't want to talk right now, please."
Another example was today when she was clinging to me and hiding her head,
my sister said to her, "Sophia! Soooophiaaaaaa??? You with the blonde
hair?! I want to ask you a question?" It was very obvious that my daughter
did not want to respond, and so I told my sister that. This is usually met
with, "But I just wanted to ask her a question," or "But I'm her
grandmother." Another example was that my father tried to talk to her (this
time he was okay, but in the past he has been known to pester her), and she
threw her head up in the air as if to ignore him and stomped off.
Also, I think that this is more of a problem with my mom (and sister), as I
have asked them repeatedly to not go to her, but to let her go to them on
her own time. So my other question is, how do I politely, yet firmly, tell
my mother and sister that she doesn't HAVE to talk to them or run over and
give them a hug? How do I make sure that her personal boundaries are being
respected, while at the same time making sure she is not being outright rude
to me or other people?
I am confused. Thanks for the help!
Erika :)
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Elizabeth Roberts
Erika,
The only thing I can think of to do...and this behavior seems totally normal to me...is to just continue to be upfront and firm with them that they need to back off from her and let her come to them.
It seems to me that they are invading her space, and that's why she's "retreating" when she sees them.
I don't know if that helps or not, but I hope so!
MamaBeth
Erika Nunn <erikanunn@...> wrote:
Hello all...once again, I am in need of some of your advice regarding my
three-year-old daughter (just turned 3 in December). The past couple of
months, whenever we go to to certain people's houses, she acts really
strangely. For example, today I took her to my mom's house to pick
something up. She gets infuriated when my mother tries to talk to her,
which is usually in that faky grandmom-type way, or she talks right in her
face (she clings to me, or hides her head, or tries to hit my mom and puts
on her spiteful, angry face). She also tends to really cling to me the
whole time, and sometimes she will get kind of rude to me, talking in a
snotty way. (I hate using those words, but that is how she comes across.)
Now, when I take her to some people's houses, she is totally fine. She
sticks to me at first, but then goes off and is quite happy. Let me mention
that the people that she is fine with are also much more child sensitive, as
in they don't rush over and greet her - they just give her space and time to
open up at her own pace. In addition, she is usually very outgoing when
around strangers, so it does not seem that she is worried in those
situations.
So, my questions are....do you think that this behaviour will pass on its
own? Right now I keep her on my lap if she wants to be there, and if she
acts rudely to me or my mom, I tell her that she may not talk that way, but
she may tell the person that, "I don't want to talk right now, please."
Another example was today when she was clinging to me and hiding her head,
my sister said to her, "Sophia! Soooophiaaaaaa??? You with the blonde
hair?! I want to ask you a question?" It was very obvious that my daughter
did not want to respond, and so I told my sister that. This is usually met
with, "But I just wanted to ask her a question," or "But I'm her
grandmother." Another example was that my father tried to talk to her (this
time he was okay, but in the past he has been known to pester her), and she
threw her head up in the air as if to ignore him and stomped off.
Also, I think that this is more of a problem with my mom (and sister), as I
have asked them repeatedly to not go to her, but to let her go to them on
her own time. So my other question is, how do I politely, yet firmly, tell
my mother and sister that she doesn't HAVE to talk to them or run over and
give them a hug? How do I make sure that her personal boundaries are being
respected, while at the same time making sure she is not being outright rude
to me or other people?
I am confused. Thanks for the help!
Erika :)
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The only thing I can think of to do...and this behavior seems totally normal to me...is to just continue to be upfront and firm with them that they need to back off from her and let her come to them.
It seems to me that they are invading her space, and that's why she's "retreating" when she sees them.
I don't know if that helps or not, but I hope so!
MamaBeth
Erika Nunn <erikanunn@...> wrote:
Hello all...once again, I am in need of some of your advice regarding my
three-year-old daughter (just turned 3 in December). The past couple of
months, whenever we go to to certain people's houses, she acts really
strangely. For example, today I took her to my mom's house to pick
something up. She gets infuriated when my mother tries to talk to her,
which is usually in that faky grandmom-type way, or she talks right in her
face (she clings to me, or hides her head, or tries to hit my mom and puts
on her spiteful, angry face). She also tends to really cling to me the
whole time, and sometimes she will get kind of rude to me, talking in a
snotty way. (I hate using those words, but that is how she comes across.)
Now, when I take her to some people's houses, she is totally fine. She
sticks to me at first, but then goes off and is quite happy. Let me mention
that the people that she is fine with are also much more child sensitive, as
in they don't rush over and greet her - they just give her space and time to
open up at her own pace. In addition, she is usually very outgoing when
around strangers, so it does not seem that she is worried in those
situations.
So, my questions are....do you think that this behaviour will pass on its
own? Right now I keep her on my lap if she wants to be there, and if she
acts rudely to me or my mom, I tell her that she may not talk that way, but
she may tell the person that, "I don't want to talk right now, please."
Another example was today when she was clinging to me and hiding her head,
my sister said to her, "Sophia! Soooophiaaaaaa??? You with the blonde
hair?! I want to ask you a question?" It was very obvious that my daughter
did not want to respond, and so I told my sister that. This is usually met
with, "But I just wanted to ask her a question," or "But I'm her
grandmother." Another example was that my father tried to talk to her (this
time he was okay, but in the past he has been known to pester her), and she
threw her head up in the air as if to ignore him and stomped off.
Also, I think that this is more of a problem with my mom (and sister), as I
have asked them repeatedly to not go to her, but to let her go to them on
her own time. So my other question is, how do I politely, yet firmly, tell
my mother and sister that she doesn't HAVE to talk to them or run over and
give them a hug? How do I make sure that her personal boundaries are being
respected, while at the same time making sure she is not being outright rude
to me or other people?
I am confused. Thanks for the help!
Erika :)
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<<<<In a message dated 1/30/2004 6:03:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
erikanunn@... writes:
I am in need of some of your advice regarding my
three-year-old daughter (just turned 3 in December). The past couple of
months, whenever we go to to certain people's houses, she acts really
strangely. For example, today I took her to my mom's house to pick
something up. She gets infuriated when my mother tries to talk to her, >>>
My daughter was the same way at 3 and at time she still is at 4.5.
My MIL would get right in her face and say hi and she would react. It has
taken a couple years and many visits to get my MIL to hear me.
I think its personality.
My son 20 mo is very outgoing but tonight in the grocery store parking lot my
friend came running up and said HIIII! NICHOLAS!!! He freaked. I think she
scared him and was loud. She knew because she is a Mom what she had done but
many dont they just think the child is anti social or rude.
From your post I can see that you know its ok for your daughter not to want
people in her face in an instant. Simply tell them she is shy and needs time
to feel comfortable. Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
erikanunn@... writes:
I am in need of some of your advice regarding my
three-year-old daughter (just turned 3 in December). The past couple of
months, whenever we go to to certain people's houses, she acts really
strangely. For example, today I took her to my mom's house to pick
something up. She gets infuriated when my mother tries to talk to her, >>>
My daughter was the same way at 3 and at time she still is at 4.5.
My MIL would get right in her face and say hi and she would react. It has
taken a couple years and many visits to get my MIL to hear me.
I think its personality.
My son 20 mo is very outgoing but tonight in the grocery store parking lot my
friend came running up and said HIIII! NICHOLAS!!! He freaked. I think she
scared him and was loud. She knew because she is a Mom what she had done but
many dont they just think the child is anti social or rude.
From your post I can see that you know its ok for your daughter not to want
people in her face in an instant. Simply tell them she is shy and needs time
to feel comfortable. Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J. Stauffer
<<<< How do I make sure that her personal boundaries are being
If someone wouldn't take a hint and leave me alone, I might get rude too,
particularly if they were up in my face, not respecting my boundaries, and
talking to me like I was stupid.
So I don't particularly see your daughter's behavior as a problem or
something that needs to be resolved.
What I would suggest is going over to your mom's without your daughter.
Talk to her about the need to be respected. Ask her how she feels when
someone doesn't listen to her.
If it didn't help, I would respond to everything my mom said in that
sing-song voice people tend to reserve for children and then stand too
close, sit too close, etc.. It won't take long for mom to get annoyed and
you can point out that this is exactly how your daughter feels when they do
it to her.
Julie S.
> respected, while at the same time making sure she is not being outrightrude
> to me or other people?>>>>>******************************************
If someone wouldn't take a hint and leave me alone, I might get rude too,
particularly if they were up in my face, not respecting my boundaries, and
talking to me like I was stupid.
So I don't particularly see your daughter's behavior as a problem or
something that needs to be resolved.
What I would suggest is going over to your mom's without your daughter.
Talk to her about the need to be respected. Ask her how she feels when
someone doesn't listen to her.
If it didn't help, I would respond to everything my mom said in that
sing-song voice people tend to reserve for children and then stand too
close, sit too close, etc.. It won't take long for mom to get annoyed and
you can point out that this is exactly how your daughter feels when they do
it to her.
Julie S.
Lisa M. Cottrell Bentley
I love hearing everyone's advice on this. I wish that I had some to give.
We, too, had this situation with my ILs when my oldest was a baby clear
until she was 2 when we finally just stopped seeing them and talking to them
(for 4 years). That is not the most ideal outcome and I don't wish it on
you, but less contact might be necessary until your mom and sister learn to
respect your daughter's boundaries. Obviously, there is a little more to my
story, but this is basically the jist of it (them not respecting our
daughter and our decision to respect her).
I just hated hearing, "But... We're FAMILY!" and "What's wrong with her?"
and "She's just not NORMAL." Ugh. Brings back horrible memories. Our only
contact now is every few weeks or so via e-mail. They've only met my
youngest (3 yo) two times for about 2 hours each time.
Good luck!
-Lisa in AZ
We, too, had this situation with my ILs when my oldest was a baby clear
until she was 2 when we finally just stopped seeing them and talking to them
(for 4 years). That is not the most ideal outcome and I don't wish it on
you, but less contact might be necessary until your mom and sister learn to
respect your daughter's boundaries. Obviously, there is a little more to my
story, but this is basically the jist of it (them not respecting our
daughter and our decision to respect her).
I just hated hearing, "But... We're FAMILY!" and "What's wrong with her?"
and "She's just not NORMAL." Ugh. Brings back horrible memories. Our only
contact now is every few weeks or so via e-mail. They've only met my
youngest (3 yo) two times for about 2 hours each time.
Good luck!
-Lisa in AZ
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/30/2004 8:29:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mamabethuscg@... writes:
Another example was today when she was clinging to me and hiding her head,
my sister said to her, "Sophia! Soooophiaaaaaa??? You with the blonde
hair?! I want to ask you a question?" It was very obvious that my daughter
did not want to respond, and so I told my sister that.
That's a pretty hard thing isn't it? Grandmothers and Aunties and papaws and
uncles and cousins love them and want to interact with them. They really
aren't being rude or insensitive, just being, well GRANDMA or AUNTIE and being
excited to see your precious child.
Then you have precious child who really doesn't give a hoot if Grandma or
Auntie or whoever wants to enjoy their company or love on them or interact.
Hard thing... we've always greeted visitors warmly and others when we go to
their houses. Maybe that makes a difference, maybe not.
There definitely is "personal space" and respect is good but isn't respect of
the Grandma or others important too? Just a greeting and acknowledgment of
whomever is your host/hostess might be important to them and then let the child
be "shy" or whatever the child's feelings are that day.
I think it would be easy to be the smug parent that says it doesn't matter
how anyone else feels only my child counts. To a large extent that's true, but
simple greetings and acknowledgment of the presence of people important in
one's life is an important thing to respect both ways.
In my opinion anyway.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamabethuscg@... writes:
Another example was today when she was clinging to me and hiding her head,
my sister said to her, "Sophia! Soooophiaaaaaa??? You with the blonde
hair?! I want to ask you a question?" It was very obvious that my daughter
did not want to respond, and so I told my sister that.
That's a pretty hard thing isn't it? Grandmothers and Aunties and papaws and
uncles and cousins love them and want to interact with them. They really
aren't being rude or insensitive, just being, well GRANDMA or AUNTIE and being
excited to see your precious child.
Then you have precious child who really doesn't give a hoot if Grandma or
Auntie or whoever wants to enjoy their company or love on them or interact.
Hard thing... we've always greeted visitors warmly and others when we go to
their houses. Maybe that makes a difference, maybe not.
There definitely is "personal space" and respect is good but isn't respect of
the Grandma or others important too? Just a greeting and acknowledgment of
whomever is your host/hostess might be important to them and then let the child
be "shy" or whatever the child's feelings are that day.
I think it would be easy to be the smug parent that says it doesn't matter
how anyone else feels only my child counts. To a large extent that's true, but
simple greetings and acknowledgment of the presence of people important in
one's life is an important thing to respect both ways.
In my opinion anyway.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bill & Diane
My son is six now and responds similarly to my parents. Yes, the
behavior gets better in some ways, and the child sometimes gets more
assertive.
My parents are retired teachers, so they "teacher" their grandkids.
They're ON my kids from the time the plane touches down. Every perceived
error *has* to be addressed--RIGHT NOW.
The best thing I did with them was to talk with them about having the
standard for *people* not just kids (the issue was *please*). The next
time a grown up asked for something in a normal "Oh, could I have some
of that, too," kind of a way I responded with, "Say p-l-e-e-e-e-z-e," in
that sing-songy voice and I think they (at least a little) GOT that yes,
there was really a double standard they hadn't seen before.
But my kids, especially the six-year-old, but also the four-year-old,
make it very clear that Grandmom and Granddad are rude and they don't
want to be around them
Don't know if that helps or really if it makes any sense!
Oh, for people who can relate, I sometimes tell them my kids are like
cats: they'll only go to you if you ignore them.
:-) Diane
Erika Nunn wrote:
behavior gets better in some ways, and the child sometimes gets more
assertive.
My parents are retired teachers, so they "teacher" their grandkids.
They're ON my kids from the time the plane touches down. Every perceived
error *has* to be addressed--RIGHT NOW.
The best thing I did with them was to talk with them about having the
standard for *people* not just kids (the issue was *please*). The next
time a grown up asked for something in a normal "Oh, could I have some
of that, too," kind of a way I responded with, "Say p-l-e-e-e-e-z-e," in
that sing-songy voice and I think they (at least a little) GOT that yes,
there was really a double standard they hadn't seen before.
But my kids, especially the six-year-old, but also the four-year-old,
make it very clear that Grandmom and Granddad are rude and they don't
want to be around them
Don't know if that helps or really if it makes any sense!
Oh, for people who can relate, I sometimes tell them my kids are like
cats: they'll only go to you if you ignore them.
:-) Diane
Erika Nunn wrote:
>Hello all...once again, I am in need of some of your advice regarding my
>three-year-old daughter (just turned 3 in December). The past couple of
>months, whenever we go to to certain people's houses, she acts really
>strangely. For example, today I took her to my mom's house to pick
>something up. She gets infuriated when my mother tries to talk to her,
>which is usually in that faky grandmom-type way, or she talks right in her
>face (she clings to me, or hides her head, or tries to hit my mom and puts
>on her spiteful, angry face). She also tends to really cling to me the
>whole time, and sometimes she will get kind of rude to me, talking in a
>snotty way. (I hate using those words, but that is how she comes across.)
>
>Now, when I take her to some people's houses, she is totally fine. She
>sticks to me at first, but then goes off and is quite happy. Let me mention
>that the people that she is fine with are also much more child sensitive, as
>in they don't rush over and greet her - they just give her space and time to
>open up at her own pace. In addition, she is usually very outgoing when
>around strangers, so it does not seem that she is worried in those
>situations.
>
>So, my questions are....do you think that this behaviour will pass on its
>own? Right now I keep her on my lap if she wants to be there, and if she
>acts rudely to me or my mom, I tell her that she may not talk that way, but
>she may tell the person that, "I don't want to talk right now, please."
>Another example was today when she was clinging to me and hiding her head,
>my sister said to her, "Sophia! Soooophiaaaaaa??? You with the blonde
>hair?! I want to ask you a question?" It was very obvious that my daughter
>did not want to respond, and so I told my sister that. This is usually met
>with, "But I just wanted to ask her a question," or "But I'm her
>grandmother." Another example was that my father tried to talk to her (this
>time he was okay, but in the past he has been known to pester her), and she
>threw her head up in the air as if to ignore him and stomped off.
>
>Also, I think that this is more of a problem with my mom (and sister), as I
>have asked them repeatedly to not go to her, but to let her go to them on
>her own time. So my other question is, how do I politely, yet firmly, tell
>my mother and sister that she doesn't HAVE to talk to them or run over and
>give them a hug? How do I make sure that her personal boundaries are being
>respected, while at the same time making sure she is not being outright rude
>to me or other people?
>
>I am confused. Thanks for the help!
>
>Erika :)
>
>
pam sorooshian
On Jan 30, 2004, at 7:41 PM, rubyprincesstsg@... wrote:
"intend to be rude and insensitive," but the reality is that they are.
This is a child who is just barely turned 3 years old. They are scaring
her. That is nearly unforgivable, if they continue it after they've had
it pointed out to them.
<<There definitely is "personal space" and respect is good but isn't
respect of
the Grandma or others important too? Just a greeting and
acknowledgment of
whomever is your host/hostess might be important to them and then let
the child
be "shy" or whatever the child's feelings are that day.>>
This is a baby - she's barely turned 3. She doesn't have to be
responsible for being "respectful" - she doesn't need to be responsible
for giving a "greeting and acknowledgment." That is not a reasonable
expectation for a barely-3-year-old child to understand that kind of
social nicety.
<<I think it would be easy to be the smug parent that says it doesn't
matter
how anyone else feels only my child counts. >>
That is such a rude thing to say to this mom. She wasn't smug and she
didn't say it doesn't matter how anybody else feels and that only her
child counts.
<< To a large extent that's true, but simple greetings and
acknowledgment of the presence of people important in one's life is an
important thing to respect both ways.>>
She's barely three years old. She's fine. It is absolutely totally
completely normal for her to behave as was described. She'll learn,
slowly and at her own speed, especially from modeling by her parents,
how to behave courteously when appropriate. She has years ahead of her
to learn and 3 years old is NOT the time for it to be forced on her.
I'd suggest that mom keep her in her arms when around these people -
let her bury her head on your shoulder and so on, don't force anything.
Hold her on your lap - hold her tightly as that might make her feel
more comfortable. If she gets down and wants to wander off, intercept
anyone who tries to approach her and protect her space.
Say things like, "She is a kid who needs a lot of space." DO NOT FEEL
BAD that she is like this - she will probably always be a person who
likes to protect her personal space. That is absolutely okay!! She's
fine. Don't start now feeling bad if she doesn't live up to everybody's
unreasonable expectations - if you start that now it will happen
throughout her childhood in a lot of different ways and you'll worry
absolutely needlessly and maybe even pass on to her the feeling that
there IS something wrong with her.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> They reallyThey ARE being rude and insensitive. Maybe you meant to say they don't
> aren't being rude or insensitive, just being, well GRANDMA or AUNTIE
> and being
> excited to see your precious child.
"intend to be rude and insensitive," but the reality is that they are.
This is a child who is just barely turned 3 years old. They are scaring
her. That is nearly unforgivable, if they continue it after they've had
it pointed out to them.
<<There definitely is "personal space" and respect is good but isn't
respect of
the Grandma or others important too? Just a greeting and
acknowledgment of
whomever is your host/hostess might be important to them and then let
the child
be "shy" or whatever the child's feelings are that day.>>
This is a baby - she's barely turned 3. She doesn't have to be
responsible for being "respectful" - she doesn't need to be responsible
for giving a "greeting and acknowledgment." That is not a reasonable
expectation for a barely-3-year-old child to understand that kind of
social nicety.
<<I think it would be easy to be the smug parent that says it doesn't
matter
how anyone else feels only my child counts. >>
That is such a rude thing to say to this mom. She wasn't smug and she
didn't say it doesn't matter how anybody else feels and that only her
child counts.
<< To a large extent that's true, but simple greetings and
acknowledgment of the presence of people important in one's life is an
important thing to respect both ways.>>
She's barely three years old. She's fine. It is absolutely totally
completely normal for her to behave as was described. She'll learn,
slowly and at her own speed, especially from modeling by her parents,
how to behave courteously when appropriate. She has years ahead of her
to learn and 3 years old is NOT the time for it to be forced on her.
I'd suggest that mom keep her in her arms when around these people -
let her bury her head on your shoulder and so on, don't force anything.
Hold her on your lap - hold her tightly as that might make her feel
more comfortable. If she gets down and wants to wander off, intercept
anyone who tries to approach her and protect her space.
Say things like, "She is a kid who needs a lot of space." DO NOT FEEL
BAD that she is like this - she will probably always be a person who
likes to protect her personal space. That is absolutely okay!! She's
fine. Don't start now feeling bad if she doesn't live up to everybody's
unreasonable expectations - if you start that now it will happen
throughout her childhood in a lot of different ways and you'll worry
absolutely needlessly and maybe even pass on to her the feeling that
there IS something wrong with her.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
[email protected]
In a message dated 30/01/2004 21:14:52 Pacific Standard Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
old described. I have found when she is uncomfortable socially, anyone
pushing themselves on her does not work at all. I believe that the only way she has
to communicate her discomfort is by hiding or grimacing. Such little people
have very little power when faced with big obnoxious adults that are demanding
attention from them.
Nancy in BC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamsoroosh@... writes:
> I'd suggest that mom keep her in her arms when around these people -Really enjoyed this whole post, Pam. My dd is 2.5 and very much like the 3 yr
> let her bury her head on your shoulder and so on, don't force anything.
> Hold her on your lap - hold her tightly as that might make her feel
> more comfortable. If she gets down and wants to wander off, intercept
> anyone who tries to approach her and protect her space.
>
> Say things like, "She is a kid who needs a lot of space." DO NOT FEEL
> BAD that she is like this - she will probably always be a person who
> likes to protect her personal space. That is absolutely okay!! She's
> fine. Don't start now feeling bad if she doesn't live up to everybody's
> unreasonable expectations - if you start that now it will happen
> throughout her childhood in a lot of different ways and you'll worry
> absolutely needlessly and maybe even pass on to her the feeling that
> there IS something wrong with her.
>
old described. I have found when she is uncomfortable socially, anyone
pushing themselves on her does not work at all. I believe that the only way she has
to communicate her discomfort is by hiding or grimacing. Such little people
have very little power when faced with big obnoxious adults that are demanding
attention from them.
Nancy in BC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/30/04 10:14:44 PM, pamsoroosh@... writes:
<< I'd suggest that mom keep her in her arms when around these people -
let her bury her head on your shoulder and so on, don't force anything.
Hold her on your lap - hold her tightly as that might make her feel
more comfortable. >>
That's what I would do too.
People who expect a baby to have the same sensibilities as an adult are part
of the problem, not part of the solution and I'm guessing this grandmother and
aunt are attributing meaning and feeling to normal behavior that's just not
there.
There are hundreds of places online that would say "MAKE her talk to her
grandma, force her to accept a hug, swat her if she doesn't say please" or
whatever all. People who want that advice can go there. People who want advice
that takes a child's feelings into account have fewer places to go for ideas.
It's amazing to me that some of the families that force kids to kiss
relatives they don't want to kiss are surprised when teenaged girls haven't learned to
"just say no."
Sandra
<< I'd suggest that mom keep her in her arms when around these people -
let her bury her head on your shoulder and so on, don't force anything.
Hold her on your lap - hold her tightly as that might make her feel
more comfortable. >>
That's what I would do too.
People who expect a baby to have the same sensibilities as an adult are part
of the problem, not part of the solution and I'm guessing this grandmother and
aunt are attributing meaning and feeling to normal behavior that's just not
there.
There are hundreds of places online that would say "MAKE her talk to her
grandma, force her to accept a hug, swat her if she doesn't say please" or
whatever all. People who want that advice can go there. People who want advice
that takes a child's feelings into account have fewer places to go for ideas.
It's amazing to me that some of the families that force kids to kiss
relatives they don't want to kiss are surprised when teenaged girls haven't learned to
"just say no."
Sandra
Michelle Watts
SandraDodd@... wrote:
Sandra:
This is something that I have never really thought of!! What an eye-opener.
Michelle
It's amazing to me that some of the families that force kids to kiss
relatives they don't want to kiss are surprised when teenaged girls haven't learned to
"just say no."
Sandra
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra:
This is something that I have never really thought of!! What an eye-opener.
Michelle
It's amazing to me that some of the families that force kids to kiss
relatives they don't want to kiss are surprised when teenaged girls haven't learned to
"just say no."
Sandra
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Beth
My lovely, outgoing, ballerina daughter had a similar problem when she was 2-3 years
old. When people would walk up to her in stores, church, etc. and try to "baby talk" to
her and get too close, she would yell, "You stupid idiot!" which she had picked up
from her older brothers. I always hoped that it wasn't very intelligible, turned very
red, and moved on. Her brothers still remember those days and she is shocked to
hear that she did this. She only did this when someone walked up to her and invaded
her space.
As far as inlaws go, when grandma and grandpa come to visit, my boys generally go
into hiding, although one of them said that grandma favors him because he just
smiles, nods, and agrees with everything. I have been trying to use this tactic as well.
He also tells me to deep breathe. I guess it is something you have to learn to handle
as you grow older... I am 45. No one in our family yells, "You stupid idiot!" at anyone
anymore.
Mary Beth
--- In [email protected], "Erika Nunn" <erikanunn@h...>
wrote:
old. When people would walk up to her in stores, church, etc. and try to "baby talk" to
her and get too close, she would yell, "You stupid idiot!" which she had picked up
from her older brothers. I always hoped that it wasn't very intelligible, turned very
red, and moved on. Her brothers still remember those days and she is shocked to
hear that she did this. She only did this when someone walked up to her and invaded
her space.
As far as inlaws go, when grandma and grandpa come to visit, my boys generally go
into hiding, although one of them said that grandma favors him because he just
smiles, nods, and agrees with everything. I have been trying to use this tactic as well.
He also tells me to deep breathe. I guess it is something you have to learn to handle
as you grow older... I am 45. No one in our family yells, "You stupid idiot!" at anyone
anymore.
Mary Beth
--- In [email protected], "Erika Nunn" <erikanunn@h...>
wrote:
> Hello all...once again, I am in need of some of your advice regarding my
> three-year-old daughter (just turned 3 in December). The past couple of
> months, whenever we go to to certain people's houses, she acts really
> strangely. For example, today I took her to my mom's house to pick
> something up. She gets infuriated when my mother tries to talk to her,
> which is usually in that faky grandmom-type way, or she talks right in her
> face (she clings to me, or hides her head, or tries to hit my mom and puts
> on her spiteful, angry face). She also tends to really cling to me the
> whole time, and sometimes she will get kind of rude to me, talking in a
> snotty way. (I hate using those words, but that is how she comes across.)
>
> Now, when I take her to some people's houses, she is totally fine. She
> sticks to me at first, but then goes off and is quite happy. Let me mention
> that the people that she is fine with are also much more child sensitive, as
> in they don't rush over and greet her - they just give her space and time to
> open up at her own pace. In addition, she is usually very outgoing when
> around strangers, so it does not seem that she is worried in those
> situations.
>
> So, my questions are....do you think that this behaviour will pass on its
> own? Right now I keep her on my lap if she wants to be there, and if she
> acts rudely to me or my mom, I tell her that she may not talk that way, but
> she may tell the person that, "I don't want to talk right now, please."
> Another example was today when she was clinging to me and hiding her head,
> my sister said to her, "Sophia! Soooophiaaaaaa??? You with the blonde
> hair?! I want to ask you a question?" It was very obvious that my daughter
> did not want to respond, and so I told my sister that. This is usually met
> with, "But I just wanted to ask her a question," or "But I'm her
> grandmother." Another example was that my father tried to talk to her (this
> time he was okay, but in the past he has been known to pester her), and she
> threw her head up in the air as if to ignore him and stomped off.
>
> Also, I think that this is more of a problem with my mom (and sister), as I
> have asked them repeatedly to not go to her, but to let her go to them on
> her own time. So my other question is, how do I politely, yet firmly, tell
> my mother and sister that she doesn't HAVE to talk to them or run over and
> give them a hug? How do I make sure that her personal boundaries are being
> respected, while at the same time making sure she is not being outright rude
> to me or other people?
>
> I am confused. Thanks for the help!
>
> Erika :)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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Alison Broadbent
I think this is very frustrating when people close to you don't "get" your
child, or probably any child.
When my son was younger. My mother would say things like, "I hope he's not
going to do THAT (whatever) forever." After the 2nd time she said that I
said to her, "Mom, Grandma was very critical of us kids and I didn't want to
be around her because of it. I really don't want my son to feel that way
about you." She stopped for a moment and then said, "OK. Got it." And she
never said anything like that again.
Alison
child, or probably any child.
When my son was younger. My mother would say things like, "I hope he's not
going to do THAT (whatever) forever." After the 2nd time she said that I
said to her, "Mom, Grandma was very critical of us kids and I didn't want to
be around her because of it. I really don't want my son to feel that way
about you." She stopped for a moment and then said, "OK. Got it." And she
never said anything like that again.
Alison
[email protected]
<< This is something that I have never really thought of!! What an
eye-opener.>>
That was in reference to this:
<<It's amazing to me that some of the families that force kids to kiss
relatives they don't want to kiss are surprised when teenaged girls haven't
learned to
"just say no." >>
Those kinds of thoughts developed in me when I had kids and started seeing
that what parents admire and try to induce in young children is NOT what makes
good adults.
Parents will coo and brag about "What a GOOD *baby*!!
The "good babies" sleep a long time, they don't complain (a.k.a. "no
preferences"), they won't speak up if they're ignored for an hour, they don't need
many toys, they don't throw things down if you hand them to them.
Translate those traits to a 23 year old, and he might just still be home, not
curious or interested in much of anything, happy to just eat whatever his mom
gives him, no idea of asking questions or challenging situations.
But a baby who wakes up quickly and curiously, who examines his food
(messily), who cries if he's by himself, who wants to touch everything, parents will
complain, but all those traits transferred to an adult model, and he'll
probably be Great!!!
Too much arguing and nitpicking? Lawyer, manager, politician.
Too much energy? Organizer, truck driver, builder of one-of-a-kind homes.
Challenges mom's pat answers? Scientist, journalist.
Sits quietly no matter what? Good baby, maybe; not good adult.
Sandra
eye-opener.>>
That was in reference to this:
<<It's amazing to me that some of the families that force kids to kiss
relatives they don't want to kiss are surprised when teenaged girls haven't
learned to
"just say no." >>
Those kinds of thoughts developed in me when I had kids and started seeing
that what parents admire and try to induce in young children is NOT what makes
good adults.
Parents will coo and brag about "What a GOOD *baby*!!
The "good babies" sleep a long time, they don't complain (a.k.a. "no
preferences"), they won't speak up if they're ignored for an hour, they don't need
many toys, they don't throw things down if you hand them to them.
Translate those traits to a 23 year old, and he might just still be home, not
curious or interested in much of anything, happy to just eat whatever his mom
gives him, no idea of asking questions or challenging situations.
But a baby who wakes up quickly and curiously, who examines his food
(messily), who cries if he's by himself, who wants to touch everything, parents will
complain, but all those traits transferred to an adult model, and he'll
probably be Great!!!
Too much arguing and nitpicking? Lawyer, manager, politician.
Too much energy? Organizer, truck driver, builder of one-of-a-kind homes.
Challenges mom's pat answers? Scientist, journalist.
Sits quietly no matter what? Good baby, maybe; not good adult.
Sandra
Genevieve Labonté
I've had some similar problems with my mom, and she used to always
comment on how my kids were anti-social because they wouldn't talk to
her, they clinged to me, etc... I explained to her nicely that they
needed a time to "thaw" and sense the whole situation before being able
to just hop in and say HI! (like she'd like them to do!). That didn't
work well, she didn't respond.
So, I then told her that if she wanted us to still come over and see
her, that she should RESPECT my kids and let them come to her and not
fuss because it wasn't "her way". I do try to prepare the boys when we
go; tell them in advance and if they have any situations they don't
like, I give them ideas what to respond (they are 6 and 4 now), or give
them the alternative to wait for me in the car (when it's a quick
thing). They now love to go to my mom's place, even though we don't go
often, and my mom even puts away her fragile stuff so they won't break
it (finally, after about 2years of explaining!). There are still times
they're shy, or the babies (who are 2) start this behavior, and I
politely remember her how it worked well with the boys, and she usually
retracts and waits for them to come over, which isn't too long usually.
Right now I keep her on my lap if she wants to be there, and if she
acts rudely to me or my mom, I tell her that she may not talk that way,
but
she may tell the person that, "I don't want to talk right now, please."
Another example was today when she was clinging to me and hiding her
head,
my sister said to her, "Sophia! Soooophiaaaaaa??? You with the blonde
hair?! I want to ask you a question?" It was very obvious that my
daughter
did not want to respond, and so I told my sister that. This is usually
met
with, "But I just wanted to ask her a question," or "But I'm her
grandmother." Another example was that my father tried to talk to her
(this
time he was okay, but in the past he has been known to pester her), and
she
threw her head up in the air as if to ignore him and stomped off.
Also, I think that this is more of a problem with my mom (and sister),
as I
have asked them repeatedly to not go to her, but to let her go to them
on
her own time. So my other question is, how do I politely, yet firmly,
tell
my mother and sister that she doesn't HAVE to talk to them or run over
and
give them a hug? How do I make sure that her personal boundaries are
being
respected, while at the same time making sure she is not being outright
rude
to me or other people?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
comment on how my kids were anti-social because they wouldn't talk to
her, they clinged to me, etc... I explained to her nicely that they
needed a time to "thaw" and sense the whole situation before being able
to just hop in and say HI! (like she'd like them to do!). That didn't
work well, she didn't respond.
So, I then told her that if she wanted us to still come over and see
her, that she should RESPECT my kids and let them come to her and not
fuss because it wasn't "her way". I do try to prepare the boys when we
go; tell them in advance and if they have any situations they don't
like, I give them ideas what to respond (they are 6 and 4 now), or give
them the alternative to wait for me in the car (when it's a quick
thing). They now love to go to my mom's place, even though we don't go
often, and my mom even puts away her fragile stuff so they won't break
it (finally, after about 2years of explaining!). There are still times
they're shy, or the babies (who are 2) start this behavior, and I
politely remember her how it worked well with the boys, and she usually
retracts and waits for them to come over, which isn't too long usually.
Right now I keep her on my lap if she wants to be there, and if she
acts rudely to me or my mom, I tell her that she may not talk that way,
but
she may tell the person that, "I don't want to talk right now, please."
Another example was today when she was clinging to me and hiding her
head,
my sister said to her, "Sophia! Soooophiaaaaaa??? You with the blonde
hair?! I want to ask you a question?" It was very obvious that my
daughter
did not want to respond, and so I told my sister that. This is usually
met
with, "But I just wanted to ask her a question," or "But I'm her
grandmother." Another example was that my father tried to talk to her
(this
time he was okay, but in the past he has been known to pester her), and
she
threw her head up in the air as if to ignore him and stomped off.
Also, I think that this is more of a problem with my mom (and sister),
as I
have asked them repeatedly to not go to her, but to let her go to them
on
her own time. So my other question is, how do I politely, yet firmly,
tell
my mother and sister that she doesn't HAVE to talk to them or run over
and
give them a hug? How do I make sure that her personal boundaries are
being
respected, while at the same time making sure she is not being outright
rude
to me or other people?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jon and Rue Kream
>>There definitely is "personal space" and respect is good but isn'trespect of
the Grandma or others important too?
**Making a child let them into her personal space even when she doesn't
want to could pretty easily lead to a child who thinks she has to let
Uncle Tommy do whatever he wants to her body. I recommend 'The Gift of
Fear', by Gavin DeBecker.
The little girl is three years old. The adults involved should
presumably know how to act respectfully - they're choosing not to
because she's 'just' a kid. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
> When people would walk up to her in stores, church, etc. and try to "babyMy favorite was when we were in Walmart. Dallen was probably 4 or 5 and a
> talk" to
> her and get too close, she would yell, "You stupid idiot!" which she had
> picked up
> from her older brothers.
woman said something and called him "honey". He looked her in the eyes and said
" I am not your honey...I am my mom's honey." Didn't scream it just said it
like didn't she know he wasn't her honey.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
catherine aceto
Sandra writes:
Too much arguing and nitpicking? Lawyer, manager, politician.
Too much energy? Organizer, truck driver, builder of one-of-a-kind homes.
Challenges mom's pat answers? Scientist, journalist.
Sits quietly no matter what? Good baby, maybe; not good adult.
**************************************************
My husband and I amuse (and baffle) our friends by not only encouraging our daughter (6) to negotiate, but also giving her pointers and telling her examples of negotiation strategies. My husband and I were both born lawyers, it seems a very normal way to relate to her until we do it in public and get strange looks.
-Cat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Too much arguing and nitpicking? Lawyer, manager, politician.
Too much energy? Organizer, truck driver, builder of one-of-a-kind homes.
Challenges mom's pat answers? Scientist, journalist.
Sits quietly no matter what? Good baby, maybe; not good adult.
**************************************************
My husband and I amuse (and baffle) our friends by not only encouraging our daughter (6) to negotiate, but also giving her pointers and telling her examples of negotiation strategies. My husband and I were both born lawyers, it seems a very normal way to relate to her until we do it in public and get strange looks.
-Cat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
It's amazing to me that some of the families that force kids to kiss
relatives they don't want to kiss are surprised when teenaged girls haven't learned to
"just say no."
I was thinking this very same thing. When my daughters were young, my aunt and one grandmother insisted on having a kiss goodbye. I absolutely hated that obligatory stuff when I was a kid.
I dont' make them do that and I tell the kids OUT LOUD in front of the offending party that "you don't have to if you don't want to". The grandma and aunt might not understand, but that is too bad. I don't do it in a rude way, and I don't get rude with the offenders. I just protect my kids and leave the offenders wondering what I'm doing LOL.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
relatives they don't want to kiss are surprised when teenaged girls haven't learned to
"just say no."
I was thinking this very same thing. When my daughters were young, my aunt and one grandmother insisted on having a kiss goodbye. I absolutely hated that obligatory stuff when I was a kid.
I dont' make them do that and I tell the kids OUT LOUD in front of the offending party that "you don't have to if you don't want to". The grandma and aunt might not understand, but that is too bad. I don't do it in a rude way, and I don't get rude with the offenders. I just protect my kids and leave the offenders wondering what I'm doing LOL.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
My husband and I amuse (and baffle) our friends by not only encouraging our daughter (6) to negotiate, but also giving her pointers and telling her examples of negotiation strategies. My husband and I were both born lawyers, it seems a very normal way to relate to her until we do it in public and get strange looks.
-Cat
LOL, we do that too. Sometimes I'd get comments like I give the kids too much control. But in my opinion, its better to give them those opportunities now while they have me to help them than it is to wait until they are grown and not necessarily going to discuss everything with me.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-Cat
LOL, we do that too. Sometimes I'd get comments like I give the kids too much control. But in my opinion, its better to give them those opportunities now while they have me to help them than it is to wait until they are grown and not necessarily going to discuss everything with me.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Penn Acres
Could you give me some "examples" of how you encourage your children to "negotiate and give her "negotiation strategies". I think I understand but would appreciate some "samples" if you have time. thanks
grace
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
grace
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Erika Nunn
Pam wrote...
"They ARE being rude and insensitive. Maybe you meant to say they don't
"intend to be rude and insensitive," but the reality is that they are."
Thank you so much everybody who took the time to respond to my question.
Again, I think to myself, "Would one treat another adult in the same way (in
regards to how one is treating a child)?" I imagined myself going to my
father in his home office (who is ALL about personal space) and tickling
him, and putting my face in his and asking him if he wants to be hugged,
etc. He would be so angry! And he wouldn't be "expected" to behave in a
polite and cordial way either.
I talked to my daughter about the situation, and she told me that she feels
just plain "angry" when she is at her Grandmother's house, and that she
really just doesn't even "like" her Grandma. I told her that she doesn't
have to like her. I did tell her that it was important to just say "hi" to
people when you first see them, and then after that she didn't have to talk
to anybody that she didn't want to. She then had a blast practicing saying,
"I just don't feel like talking right now!"
Again, thank you. It is just so cool to hear people talk about children
being respected, I just can't tell you.
Erika :)
_________________________________________________________________
What are the 5 hot job markets for 2004? Click here to find out.
http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Custom/MSN/CareerAdvice/WPI_WhereWillWeFindJobsIn2004.htm?siteid=CBMSN3006&sc_extcmp=JS_wi08_dec03_hotmail1
"They ARE being rude and insensitive. Maybe you meant to say they don't
"intend to be rude and insensitive," but the reality is that they are."
Thank you so much everybody who took the time to respond to my question.
Again, I think to myself, "Would one treat another adult in the same way (in
regards to how one is treating a child)?" I imagined myself going to my
father in his home office (who is ALL about personal space) and tickling
him, and putting my face in his and asking him if he wants to be hugged,
etc. He would be so angry! And he wouldn't be "expected" to behave in a
polite and cordial way either.
I talked to my daughter about the situation, and she told me that she feels
just plain "angry" when she is at her Grandmother's house, and that she
really just doesn't even "like" her Grandma. I told her that she doesn't
have to like her. I did tell her that it was important to just say "hi" to
people when you first see them, and then after that she didn't have to talk
to anybody that she didn't want to. She then had a blast practicing saying,
"I just don't feel like talking right now!"
Again, thank you. It is just so cool to hear people talk about children
being respected, I just can't tell you.
Erika :)
_________________________________________________________________
What are the 5 hot job markets for 2004? Click here to find out.
http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Custom/MSN/CareerAdvice/WPI_WhereWillWeFindJobsIn2004.htm?siteid=CBMSN3006&sc_extcmp=JS_wi08_dec03_hotmail1
catherine aceto
From: Penn Acres
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Need advice...
Could you give me some "examples" of how you encourage your children to "negotiate and give her "negotiation strategies". I think I understand but would appreciate some "samples" if you have time. thanks
grace
***************************************************
Ok -- I'll try to think of any that might have happened yeasterday.
Yesterday evening, Lydia brought me a large stack of Berenstain Bears books and asked me to read them. I responded that I didn't like Berenstain Bears books enough to read that many of them in a row. My next question prompted to think about her goal (a key negotiation strategy) -- Do you want to replace some or all of the BB with other books, so that we can read that many books or do you want me to start reading them and see when I get tired of reading BB books. She choose to have me read as many of them as possible. Without prompting (although possibly based on other conversations we have had in the past) she sorted through the books to put the ones that she really wanted to have read first (another key strategy, being able to separate your more important goals from your less important goals.).
This sounds really minor -- but you would be surprised how many adults in negotiations don't seem able either to identify their goals or to sort them for importance.
I suspect, based on her behavior generally, that she brought me so many BB books because she knew that I would read more of them than I would have if she only brought me a few. That ability (asking for more than you are prepared to settle for) is another key aspect of negotiation. She seems to do that instinctively - maybe most kids do, I did. I haven't done anything to encourage it (I'm not sure why, I have to think about that) -- but I am very careful not to discourage it, such as by saying somethign like "I would be more likely to read if you brought me only the ones that you really wanted." That statement happens not to be true -- but I have heard parents say things like that to their children.
Sometimes she will come to me with reasons why we should do something and I will say yes right away before she has finished her list of reasons, which she then wants to finish telling me. I usually tell her that in negotiation, once she has gotten to "yes," she should stop talking -- but I also listen to her if she really just wants to tell me all the rest of the reasons it is a good idea to do the thing she wanted to do.
Hmm...trying to think of some other times. Suppose we were playing somewhere, and I wanted to leave soon to go home and start dinner. This is a composite of many times, rather than an actual incident that I am thinking of. I might say to her, I want to leave soon, so I can start dinner. Is there anything you want to make sure your do before we go? She might say, I want to play in the tree house and also get an ice-cream from the machine. I might say, the ice-cream could take awhile to eat and I want to start supper soon because I am hungry. She might then suggest that I also eat an ice-cream. I might then say, if true, that while that would help my hunger, daddy might be hungry when he gets home. She might then offer to eat the ice-cream in the car on the way home, or she might want to eat the ice-cream at the playplace, but offer to entertain Jonathan (her 1yo brother) when we got home so that it would be easier and faster for me to start dinner.
That kind of give and take -- rather than just stating "we are leaving so that I can start dinner" or having arranged in advance that "we are leaving at 6:00 -- is the kind of negotiation that gets us funny looks from other parents - who sometimes seem to feel that some things (like a parent getting to start dinner "on time") should be sacrosanct.
I dont' know if you were on the list (or whether it was this list!) but someone once posted what their daughter's reaction would be to having someone tell her not to stand on the table (it involved sucessive meeting of each of the parent's objections as to safety to the table, safety to the child, sanitation, not offending her father's sensibilities). That is the sort of dialogue that we might have -- but whereas the original poster seemed to find it unpleasant or unfortunate, I would enjoy it and be impressed by her negotiation skills.
When she negotiates things with other people, I sometimes point out the power aspect: i.e., it is Akira's ball, so he ultimately gets to choose what happens to it -- why don't you try to think of something that he want also want to do. Or to point out that if she is asking something in a whiny or demanding voice, it is hard for people to hear/process her request instead of just focussing on the whining or the demanding.
I guess though, as I think about it, I have focussed on the aspects of negotiation that require knowing your goal, being able to sort your goal for importance, being able to think of ways to meet your goals that also allow the other person to meet theirs. I can find this to be surprising hard for myself-- sometime when I think I want to tidy, what I really want is a quiet chance to zone out by sorting things -- and playing SET with Lydia will do just as well. Sometimes what I want is the stuff off the floor so that we can walk, and we can crank up the stereo and DanceClean. I talk myself through this process out loud, so that Lydia and Jonathan get used to hearing the process.
Hope this helps a little. If I come across other examples I'll try to post them.
-Cat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Need advice...
Could you give me some "examples" of how you encourage your children to "negotiate and give her "negotiation strategies". I think I understand but would appreciate some "samples" if you have time. thanks
grace
***************************************************
Ok -- I'll try to think of any that might have happened yeasterday.
Yesterday evening, Lydia brought me a large stack of Berenstain Bears books and asked me to read them. I responded that I didn't like Berenstain Bears books enough to read that many of them in a row. My next question prompted to think about her goal (a key negotiation strategy) -- Do you want to replace some or all of the BB with other books, so that we can read that many books or do you want me to start reading them and see when I get tired of reading BB books. She choose to have me read as many of them as possible. Without prompting (although possibly based on other conversations we have had in the past) she sorted through the books to put the ones that she really wanted to have read first (another key strategy, being able to separate your more important goals from your less important goals.).
This sounds really minor -- but you would be surprised how many adults in negotiations don't seem able either to identify their goals or to sort them for importance.
I suspect, based on her behavior generally, that she brought me so many BB books because she knew that I would read more of them than I would have if she only brought me a few. That ability (asking for more than you are prepared to settle for) is another key aspect of negotiation. She seems to do that instinctively - maybe most kids do, I did. I haven't done anything to encourage it (I'm not sure why, I have to think about that) -- but I am very careful not to discourage it, such as by saying somethign like "I would be more likely to read if you brought me only the ones that you really wanted." That statement happens not to be true -- but I have heard parents say things like that to their children.
Sometimes she will come to me with reasons why we should do something and I will say yes right away before she has finished her list of reasons, which she then wants to finish telling me. I usually tell her that in negotiation, once she has gotten to "yes," she should stop talking -- but I also listen to her if she really just wants to tell me all the rest of the reasons it is a good idea to do the thing she wanted to do.
Hmm...trying to think of some other times. Suppose we were playing somewhere, and I wanted to leave soon to go home and start dinner. This is a composite of many times, rather than an actual incident that I am thinking of. I might say to her, I want to leave soon, so I can start dinner. Is there anything you want to make sure your do before we go? She might say, I want to play in the tree house and also get an ice-cream from the machine. I might say, the ice-cream could take awhile to eat and I want to start supper soon because I am hungry. She might then suggest that I also eat an ice-cream. I might then say, if true, that while that would help my hunger, daddy might be hungry when he gets home. She might then offer to eat the ice-cream in the car on the way home, or she might want to eat the ice-cream at the playplace, but offer to entertain Jonathan (her 1yo brother) when we got home so that it would be easier and faster for me to start dinner.
That kind of give and take -- rather than just stating "we are leaving so that I can start dinner" or having arranged in advance that "we are leaving at 6:00 -- is the kind of negotiation that gets us funny looks from other parents - who sometimes seem to feel that some things (like a parent getting to start dinner "on time") should be sacrosanct.
I dont' know if you were on the list (or whether it was this list!) but someone once posted what their daughter's reaction would be to having someone tell her not to stand on the table (it involved sucessive meeting of each of the parent's objections as to safety to the table, safety to the child, sanitation, not offending her father's sensibilities). That is the sort of dialogue that we might have -- but whereas the original poster seemed to find it unpleasant or unfortunate, I would enjoy it and be impressed by her negotiation skills.
When she negotiates things with other people, I sometimes point out the power aspect: i.e., it is Akira's ball, so he ultimately gets to choose what happens to it -- why don't you try to think of something that he want also want to do. Or to point out that if she is asking something in a whiny or demanding voice, it is hard for people to hear/process her request instead of just focussing on the whining or the demanding.
I guess though, as I think about it, I have focussed on the aspects of negotiation that require knowing your goal, being able to sort your goal for importance, being able to think of ways to meet your goals that also allow the other person to meet theirs. I can find this to be surprising hard for myself-- sometime when I think I want to tidy, what I really want is a quiet chance to zone out by sorting things -- and playing SET with Lydia will do just as well. Sometimes what I want is the stuff off the floor so that we can walk, and we can crank up the stereo and DanceClean. I talk myself through this process out loud, so that Lydia and Jonathan get used to hearing the process.
Hope this helps a little. If I come across other examples I'll try to post them.
-Cat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/1/04 9:42:13 AM, aceto3@... writes:
<< I dont' know if you were on the list (or whether it was this list!) but
someone once posted what their daughter's reaction would be to having someone
tell her not to stand on the table (it involved sucessive meeting of each of the
parent's objections as to safety to the table, safety to the child,
sanitation, not offending her father's sensibilities). That is the sort of dialogue
that we might have -- but whereas the original poster seemed to find it
unpleasant or unfortunate, I would enjoy it and be impressed by her negotiation
skills.
<g>
We've coached our kids on being persuasive and calming in various situations.
They're aware that if they keep the peace when other kids are over the
playtime lasts longer and is more likely to be repeated. We talk through our own
reasoning in front of them, and describe how we might have gotten our way in a
meeting or negotiation involving something or other else, and they hear that
as a normal part of life.
We just bought a used van. My husband went over to the seller's house two
days later to ask him a couple of questions and to offer to return a blanket and
two towels and a toolkit which were in the van. The kids knew he was going
to do that, and they knew that when he came back the guy had told him that
those things all went with the van, and we should keep them! The blanket had been
chosen for matching the interior, and the towels were covers for the front
two seats.
So in exchange for Keith being so upfront and honest and non-graspy, the guy
offered to help him trouble-shoot any future problems he has with the van
before Keith takes it in for repair or whatever. I'm guessing he might offer to
DO repairs if they're small, and that's a lot for the seller of a used vehicle.
So that's not negotiation so much as a character lesson, but that's part of
what makes negotiation successful: trust and integrity.
Sandra
<< I dont' know if you were on the list (or whether it was this list!) but
someone once posted what their daughter's reaction would be to having someone
tell her not to stand on the table (it involved sucessive meeting of each of the
parent's objections as to safety to the table, safety to the child,
sanitation, not offending her father's sensibilities). That is the sort of dialogue
that we might have -- but whereas the original poster seemed to find it
unpleasant or unfortunate, I would enjoy it and be impressed by her negotiation
skills.
>>My whole position at the time was it depends entirely on who owns the table!
<g>
We've coached our kids on being persuasive and calming in various situations.
They're aware that if they keep the peace when other kids are over the
playtime lasts longer and is more likely to be repeated. We talk through our own
reasoning in front of them, and describe how we might have gotten our way in a
meeting or negotiation involving something or other else, and they hear that
as a normal part of life.
We just bought a used van. My husband went over to the seller's house two
days later to ask him a couple of questions and to offer to return a blanket and
two towels and a toolkit which were in the van. The kids knew he was going
to do that, and they knew that when he came back the guy had told him that
those things all went with the van, and we should keep them! The blanket had been
chosen for matching the interior, and the towels were covers for the front
two seats.
So in exchange for Keith being so upfront and honest and non-graspy, the guy
offered to help him trouble-shoot any future problems he has with the van
before Keith takes it in for repair or whatever. I'm guessing he might offer to
DO repairs if they're small, and that's a lot for the seller of a used vehicle.
So that's not negotiation so much as a character lesson, but that's part of
what makes negotiation successful: trust and integrity.
Sandra
Have a Nice Day!
Hmmmmm,
Well, it can be about chores that need done, or sometimes its how to get to their friends' houses. They might want a ride to someone's house, and I'm busy with something. They will sometimes say "I'll do this, if you drive me". Things like that. Or sometimes they'll ask for money to do something and offer to do something so that they can get paid. then we might negotiate their going rate LOL.
Kristen
Well, it can be about chores that need done, or sometimes its how to get to their friends' houses. They might want a ride to someone's house, and I'm busy with something. They will sometimes say "I'll do this, if you drive me". Things like that. Or sometimes they'll ask for money to do something and offer to do something so that they can get paid. then we might negotiate their going rate LOL.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Penn Acres
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Need advice...
Could you give me some "examples" of how you encourage your children to "negotiate and give her "negotiation strategies". I think I understand but would appreciate some "samples" if you have time. thanks
grace
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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In a message dated 2/1/2004 3:02:57 PM Central Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
(is that his name?) and we are living "et's Make a Deal".
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
litlrooh@... writes:
> Well, it can be about chores that need done, or sometimes its how to get toLOL, All of my kids were born negotiators, I've always felt like Monty Hall
> their friends' houses. They might want a ride to someone's house, and I'm
> busy with something. They will sometimes say "I'll do this, if you drive me".
> Things like that. Or sometimes they'll ask for money to do something and
> offer to do something so that they can get paid. then we might negotiate
> their going rate
(is that his name?) and we are living "et's Make a Deal".
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/1/2004 5:04:44 PM Central Standard Time, BonKnit@...
writes:
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> and we are living "et's Make a Deal".That's Let's Make a Deal, Duh!
>
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]