too much structure? need some advice
Ren
"I asked my now 12yro a few years ago if he wanted to take a cooking
class and he said "Can't we just stay home and cook?"
Smart kid,"
Yes, I agree.
I just think that most classes can be better done at home, and with less expense. Gymboree always seemed like such a waste to me when I thought about how much it would cost in a year and the kind of things we could buy with that money. Babies don't need to go play on equipment with other babies, they need their families.
There are some things we can't do at home, gymnastics is one of them. The classes cost less than the equipment would, so it makes sense to seek a good class when the kids wanted that. But my kids have always been able to stop the classes if they wanted to, whenever they wanted. So they've come and gone from gymnastics. Sierra wants to start back right now.
I look at the continuting education classes at the college from time to time, they have several choices for children too. Most of them sound great, but for the money we could just buy really cool materials and do it at home!
Trevor has been taking guitar for a year now and still loves it. Jared is looking into a martial arts class. But they are 10 and 14, the ages where an outside class might sound really appealing to a child.
I don't think classes are necessary, but they can enrich your life if you really want to be there.
It sounds like the child in this case doesn't really want to be there, it's more about the parents right now. Keeping their outside experiences positive and happy is far more important to me than what they learn about structure. A toddler does NOT need to learn structure, heck, I don't need structure (or do I? I can't seem to find my keys again). Some of us like to be "system busters" our whole lives. Isn't that ok?:)
Ren
"I never teach my pupils; I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn."
Albert Einstein
class and he said "Can't we just stay home and cook?"
Smart kid,"
Yes, I agree.
I just think that most classes can be better done at home, and with less expense. Gymboree always seemed like such a waste to me when I thought about how much it would cost in a year and the kind of things we could buy with that money. Babies don't need to go play on equipment with other babies, they need their families.
There are some things we can't do at home, gymnastics is one of them. The classes cost less than the equipment would, so it makes sense to seek a good class when the kids wanted that. But my kids have always been able to stop the classes if they wanted to, whenever they wanted. So they've come and gone from gymnastics. Sierra wants to start back right now.
I look at the continuting education classes at the college from time to time, they have several choices for children too. Most of them sound great, but for the money we could just buy really cool materials and do it at home!
Trevor has been taking guitar for a year now and still loves it. Jared is looking into a martial arts class. But they are 10 and 14, the ages where an outside class might sound really appealing to a child.
I don't think classes are necessary, but they can enrich your life if you really want to be there.
It sounds like the child in this case doesn't really want to be there, it's more about the parents right now. Keeping their outside experiences positive and happy is far more important to me than what they learn about structure. A toddler does NOT need to learn structure, heck, I don't need structure (or do I? I can't seem to find my keys again). Some of us like to be "system busters" our whole lives. Isn't that ok?:)
Ren
"I never teach my pupils; I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn."
Albert Einstein
J. Stauffer
<<<<<It sounds like the child in this case doesn't really want to be there,
it's more about the parents right now.>>>>>
And speaking as someone who has taught those "enrichment" type classes and
as someone who has a few kids who love them.....nothing sucks the fun out of
an activity faster for everyone than someone being forced to be there.
My 13yo dd LOVES gymnastics. She takes extra classes, helps her younger
sisters with their skills (has even been approached by the owner to possibly
work there).....but even she complains when somebody isn't enjoying the
class, is forced by a parent to "finish out the year." It changes the
entire energy involved. Instead of gymnastics being an energizer, it
becomes a drain. Yuck.
Julie S.
it's more about the parents right now.>>>>>
And speaking as someone who has taught those "enrichment" type classes and
as someone who has a few kids who love them.....nothing sucks the fun out of
an activity faster for everyone than someone being forced to be there.
My 13yo dd LOVES gymnastics. She takes extra classes, helps her younger
sisters with their skills (has even been approached by the owner to possibly
work there).....but even she complains when somebody isn't enjoying the
class, is forced by a parent to "finish out the year." It changes the
entire energy involved. Instead of gymnastics being an energizer, it
becomes a drain. Yuck.
Julie S.
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/29/04 9:08:12 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:
<< Gymboree always seemed like such a waste to me when I thought about how
much it would cost in a year and the kind of things we could buy with that
money. >>
Like a swing set!!! We still have the swing set Kirby got when he turned
three. Some parts have been replaced, but Holly still plays on it. Kids come
over and play on it.
My guess is things like gymboree are for people who live in apartments in big
cities and the kids have no place big enough to roll, and not much to climb
on.
Sandra
<< Gymboree always seemed like such a waste to me when I thought about how
much it would cost in a year and the kind of things we could buy with that
money. >>
Like a swing set!!! We still have the swing set Kirby got when he turned
three. Some parts have been replaced, but Holly still plays on it. Kids come
over and play on it.
My guess is things like gymboree are for people who live in apartments in big
cities and the kids have no place big enough to roll, and not much to climb
on.
Sandra
Lyle W.
"My guess is things like gymboree are for people who live in apartments in big cities and the kids have no place big enough to roll, and not much to climb on."
I've had this same thought. People will mention taking their kids to a class of some sort, and I'll think, we do that in our backyard, or our basement, or out in our shop, etc. Why take a class?
I'll just count my blessings that we have a huge yard and lots and lots of things to do in our home with lots of space to do them in. I'm a huge lover of space. No way I could live in a city, lol. I know there are aspects to city life that we don't get in on, but for me, none of them are worth giving up my space for. And we can always go visit the cities.
:)
Lyle
***Always remember, Lead By Example***
--
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I've had this same thought. People will mention taking their kids to a class of some sort, and I'll think, we do that in our backyard, or our basement, or out in our shop, etc. Why take a class?
I'll just count my blessings that we have a huge yard and lots and lots of things to do in our home with lots of space to do them in. I'm a huge lover of space. No way I could live in a city, lol. I know there are aspects to city life that we don't get in on, but for me, none of them are worth giving up my space for. And we can always go visit the cities.
:)
Lyle
***Always remember, Lead By Example***
--
___________________________________________________________
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[email protected]
In a message dated 1/29/2004 10:07:59 AM Central Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
things have a different flavor. My DH and 12yro took a beginning airbrush workshop,
it was a 4hr thing which they both enjoyed. At the end the lady who was in
the station next to my son thanked him for being there, told him that she had
enjoyed having him next to her. He was the only kid in the workshop, he did
fine. I like those kinds of things best, they are not dumbed down.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
> Trevor has been taking guitar for a year now and still loves it. Jared isI especially like to find stuff that is not set up only for kids, those
> looking into a martial arts class. But they are 10 and 14, the ages where an
> outside class might sound really appealing to a child.
> I don't think classes are necessary, but they can enrich your life if you
> really want to be there.
>
things have a different flavor. My DH and 12yro took a beginning airbrush workshop,
it was a 4hr thing which they both enjoyed. At the end the lady who was in
the station next to my son thanked him for being there, told him that she had
enjoyed having him next to her. He was the only kid in the workshop, he did
fine. I like those kinds of things best, they are not dumbed down.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wife2Vegman
--- "Lyle W." <unschoolingdad@...> wrote:
(Washington DC suburbs). Two kids and a dog.
Trophies that are to be gotten and maintained.
My SIL and my brother spend any time at all with the
kids taking them to ballet, gymnastics, swim lessons,
soccer, brownies or piano lessons (the kids are 6 and
4). But they are in school all day and then daycare
after school until 5pm. Come home, do the homework
(yes, even the 4yo has homework of some sort), and
then off to brownies or ballet or swim lessons.
Weekends are full of activities too....classes on
saturdays and church activities on sundays.
Of course, my SIL also works full time, teaches some
evenings, and does volunteer work. My brother does
all the cooking and cleaning that is done at all.
I can't help thinking when they start listing all
these wonderful "enrichment" activities, wow, why not
just stay home for the few minutes you can and spend
it together?
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
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> "My guess is things like gymboree are for people whoIt is also a status thing, at least in this area
> live in apartments in big cities and the kids have
> no place big enough to roll, and not much to climb
> on."
>
(Washington DC suburbs). Two kids and a dog.
Trophies that are to be gotten and maintained.
My SIL and my brother spend any time at all with the
kids taking them to ballet, gymnastics, swim lessons,
soccer, brownies or piano lessons (the kids are 6 and
4). But they are in school all day and then daycare
after school until 5pm. Come home, do the homework
(yes, even the 4yo has homework of some sort), and
then off to brownies or ballet or swim lessons.
Weekends are full of activities too....classes on
saturdays and church activities on sundays.
Of course, my SIL also works full time, teaches some
evenings, and does volunteer work. My brother does
all the cooking and cleaning that is done at all.
I can't help thinking when they start listing all
these wonderful "enrichment" activities, wow, why not
just stay home for the few minutes you can and spend
it together?
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
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Melissa
--- In [email protected], Wife2Vegman
<wifetovegman2002@y...> wrote:
<<"My guess is things like gymboree are for people who live in
apartments in big cities and the kids have no place big enough to
roll, and not much to climb on.">>
This is the very reason that my DH and I started taking our DD to
gymboree to begin with. We had also recently moved to a new city
(about 4 hours from our old home town) and didn't know very many
people and no one with kids. We decided to enroll our DD in
gymboree to get her out of our small apartment, so that she could
meet other kids her own age, and so that I could me other mothers.
She loved it and so did I. I met many people that I am still
friends with and she has lots of little friends that she met in
gymboree. The other mothers that I met there and I actually decided
to form our own mom's group outside of gymboree and most of us chose
not to continue with gymboree once we had started that group.
When we made yet another move to Vegas, my DH and I decided that
gymboree might be a way to meet other people again (both for myself
and our DD). Unfortunately, it didn't work out that same way here.
Once we realized that we weren't meeting the type of people we
wanted to meet (most of the people there were either grandparents or
click type people only there for the status), we decided to save the
money and dropped the class. Looks like we won't be going back to
gymnastics again either. However, with the gymnastics class, I
don't feel disappointed to be taking her out. I simply feel like we
are doing the right thing in not continuing with that class. I have
hooked up with a homeschooling group here in Vegas and will be
meeting with them once a week for an open gym at the local community
center. I think that Karen (my DD) will like that much better.
Melissa
<wifetovegman2002@y...> wrote:
<<"My guess is things like gymboree are for people who live in
apartments in big cities and the kids have no place big enough to
roll, and not much to climb on.">>
This is the very reason that my DH and I started taking our DD to
gymboree to begin with. We had also recently moved to a new city
(about 4 hours from our old home town) and didn't know very many
people and no one with kids. We decided to enroll our DD in
gymboree to get her out of our small apartment, so that she could
meet other kids her own age, and so that I could me other mothers.
She loved it and so did I. I met many people that I am still
friends with and she has lots of little friends that she met in
gymboree. The other mothers that I met there and I actually decided
to form our own mom's group outside of gymboree and most of us chose
not to continue with gymboree once we had started that group.
When we made yet another move to Vegas, my DH and I decided that
gymboree might be a way to meet other people again (both for myself
and our DD). Unfortunately, it didn't work out that same way here.
Once we realized that we weren't meeting the type of people we
wanted to meet (most of the people there were either grandparents or
click type people only there for the status), we decided to save the
money and dropped the class. Looks like we won't be going back to
gymnastics again either. However, with the gymnastics class, I
don't feel disappointed to be taking her out. I simply feel like we
are doing the right thing in not continuing with that class. I have
hooked up with a homeschooling group here in Vegas and will be
meeting with them once a week for an open gym at the local community
center. I think that Karen (my DD) will like that much better.
Melissa
Marjorie Kirk
"My guess is things like gymboree are for people who live in apartments in
big cities and the kids have no place big enough to roll, and not much to
climb on."
I think a lot of times Gymboree classes are for moms who need to get out of
the house with a little one and might not have many mom friends yet. They
need the socialization! When my oldest was a baby I joined a local La Leche
League spin-off play group. It was MY play group, not his. He was 6 months
old, he didn't even realize it was a playgroup. But all of us moms decided
that once a month wasn't enough support, we needed weekly get-togethers at
least!
Marjorie
big cities and the kids have no place big enough to roll, and not much to
climb on."
I think a lot of times Gymboree classes are for moms who need to get out of
the house with a little one and might not have many mom friends yet. They
need the socialization! When my oldest was a baby I joined a local La Leche
League spin-off play group. It was MY play group, not his. He was 6 months
old, he didn't even realize it was a playgroup. But all of us moms decided
that once a month wasn't enough support, we needed weekly get-togethers at
least!
Marjorie
liza sabater
On Thursday, January 29, 2004, at 10:31 AM, J. Stauffer wrote:
when he says he does not like it, he does not like. i had him a mommy &
me music class and he hated it. instead of asking for our money back, I
made him go. that's one of my deschooling knee-jerk reactions of last
year. he still wants to do music in a school because his brother goes
and takes guitar lessons with a very unschooly kind of teacher. well,
this time around i asked him several times, "do you want to go" and he
very clearly said: sometimes i do, sometimes i don't. i'll let you
know. he's not even for yet.
with Evan, i had a more jerk than knee reaction the other day. i fought
with him because he did not want to follow his guitar homework
instructions the way the teacher had written them out. WTF was I
thinking! I literally had to leave the apartment and go to Barnes and
Noble. after i came back and apologized, i had a lengthy talk with mark.
my jerk moment came from the meaning i was giving to his choices. he
wants to do this because he enjoys it not because he needs to prove
anything. i want him to prove to his teacher he is good. UGH! let me
tell you, i've been feeling very yucky about this. a lot of it has to
do with having an extra load of stress and going to places emotional
places where it is very easy for me to go when i'm feeling sorry for
myself. still, i don't want to turn this into a bashing session on
myself either because i can go there so easily. it's been more like a
wake-up call. a jolt to get back into awareness.
l i z a
=========================
www.culturekitchen.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> And speaking as someone who has taught those "enrichment" type classestell me about it. i've come to respect Aidan's appraisal of classes.
> and
> as someone who has a few kids who love them.....nothing sucks the fun
> out of
> an activity faster for everyone than someone being forced to be there.
>
when he says he does not like it, he does not like. i had him a mommy &
me music class and he hated it. instead of asking for our money back, I
made him go. that's one of my deschooling knee-jerk reactions of last
year. he still wants to do music in a school because his brother goes
and takes guitar lessons with a very unschooly kind of teacher. well,
this time around i asked him several times, "do you want to go" and he
very clearly said: sometimes i do, sometimes i don't. i'll let you
know. he's not even for yet.
with Evan, i had a more jerk than knee reaction the other day. i fought
with him because he did not want to follow his guitar homework
instructions the way the teacher had written them out. WTF was I
thinking! I literally had to leave the apartment and go to Barnes and
Noble. after i came back and apologized, i had a lengthy talk with mark.
my jerk moment came from the meaning i was giving to his choices. he
wants to do this because he enjoys it not because he needs to prove
anything. i want him to prove to his teacher he is good. UGH! let me
tell you, i've been feeling very yucky about this. a lot of it has to
do with having an extra load of stress and going to places emotional
places where it is very easy for me to go when i'm feeling sorry for
myself. still, i don't want to turn this into a bashing session on
myself either because i can go there so easily. it's been more like a
wake-up call. a jolt to get back into awareness.
l i z a
=========================
www.culturekitchen.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Erika Nunn
Liza wrote...
"I fought with him because he did not want to follow his guitar homework
instructions the way the teacher had written them out. WTF was I
thinking! I literally had to leave the apartment and go to Barnes and
Noble. after i came back and apologized, i had a lengthy talk with mark."
I had the same type of situation with my son the other day (he is four years
old). He told me that he wanted to learn the recorder, and so we sat down
for a "lesson," with me taking the role of teacher, of course. THAT was
brilliant. It ended up with me being frustrated because my son just
wouldn't listen to my instructions, gosh darnit! He wanted to do things his
own way! I realized what an idiot I was being (he's FOUR), and I later
asked my son if and how he would like his future "lessons" to go. He told
me plain and simple, "Mama - I just want you to sit there and listen, and if
I have any questions, I'll ask YOU." Nicely put...in other words, just shut
up Mom. I am still learning and my son is patiently pointing out the error
of my ways. I am so proud.
Don't feel too bad, as at least you saw that you were pressuring your son.
My mother forced me to practice the violin every day for an hour for EIGHT
YEARS (with me obviously hating it). Funny, I can't stand to play it now.
Erika :)
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"I fought with him because he did not want to follow his guitar homework
instructions the way the teacher had written them out. WTF was I
thinking! I literally had to leave the apartment and go to Barnes and
Noble. after i came back and apologized, i had a lengthy talk with mark."
I had the same type of situation with my son the other day (he is four years
old). He told me that he wanted to learn the recorder, and so we sat down
for a "lesson," with me taking the role of teacher, of course. THAT was
brilliant. It ended up with me being frustrated because my son just
wouldn't listen to my instructions, gosh darnit! He wanted to do things his
own way! I realized what an idiot I was being (he's FOUR), and I later
asked my son if and how he would like his future "lessons" to go. He told
me plain and simple, "Mama - I just want you to sit there and listen, and if
I have any questions, I'll ask YOU." Nicely put...in other words, just shut
up Mom. I am still learning and my son is patiently pointing out the error
of my ways. I am so proud.
Don't feel too bad, as at least you saw that you were pressuring your son.
My mother forced me to practice the violin every day for an hour for EIGHT
YEARS (with me obviously hating it). Funny, I can't stand to play it now.
Erika :)
_________________________________________________________________
Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers!
http://shopping.msn.com/softcontent/softcontent.aspx?scmId=1418