Too much structure? Need some advice.
melissa4123
My DD is 2.5 years old and my DH and I have recently enrolled her in
a gymnastics class. She has been going to Gymboree since she was 6
months old and we thought that she would enjoy the gymnastics. Both
my husband and myself go to the class with her.
Here's the part that I would like to get some feedback on. The
class is much more structured than what she is used to (in gymboree,
the kids can pretty much run around and play on what they want). In
the new gymnastics class, there is a warm up time and then stations
that they "have" to go and practice on.
There have only been two classes so far however, after both classes,
my husband and myself have gotten into arguments about what happened
(or rather didn't happen during the class). Both times, our DD has
all but refused to do the warm ups. The first class, she did most
of them and then she didn't want to so, we did them and hoped that
she would join in (which she didn't). As soon as they started with
the stations, she had a great time. This time, she refused to do
any of the warm ups and didn't want to do some of the stations. I'm
of the opinion that, if she dosen't want to do the forward rolls but
does want to walk on the balance beem then let her walk on the
balance beem. What's the big deal? But, my husband wants her to go
in order (as does the teacher who was shooting me dirty looks in
class today because I let her go out of order) and says that we
should sit her down and talk to her and tell her that she has to do
the stations in order. He hasn't said what, exactly, he's going to
do when she still refuses (though I did ask him that question) he
says that he will take it on a case by case basis.
I simply feel that (keep in mind here that she is very sensitive) as
soon as he takes her aside and starts to tell her that she "has" to
do the warm ups and stations in order that she will feel embarrassed
and will know that she has, somehow, disappointed him and will start
to cry. What's the point in that? My husband says that she needs
to learn structure some time.
Of course, there is much more to the arguement but I won't bore you
with an hour's worth of yelling. I just feel that there are
important things to enforce and not important things and this just
isn't that important. However, I can be very stubborn (which is
where my DD gets it from) and I sometimes think that my way is the
only way. So, I would like to hear some other view points on this
one.
Thank you,
Melissa
a gymnastics class. She has been going to Gymboree since she was 6
months old and we thought that she would enjoy the gymnastics. Both
my husband and myself go to the class with her.
Here's the part that I would like to get some feedback on. The
class is much more structured than what she is used to (in gymboree,
the kids can pretty much run around and play on what they want). In
the new gymnastics class, there is a warm up time and then stations
that they "have" to go and practice on.
There have only been two classes so far however, after both classes,
my husband and myself have gotten into arguments about what happened
(or rather didn't happen during the class). Both times, our DD has
all but refused to do the warm ups. The first class, she did most
of them and then she didn't want to so, we did them and hoped that
she would join in (which she didn't). As soon as they started with
the stations, she had a great time. This time, she refused to do
any of the warm ups and didn't want to do some of the stations. I'm
of the opinion that, if she dosen't want to do the forward rolls but
does want to walk on the balance beem then let her walk on the
balance beem. What's the big deal? But, my husband wants her to go
in order (as does the teacher who was shooting me dirty looks in
class today because I let her go out of order) and says that we
should sit her down and talk to her and tell her that she has to do
the stations in order. He hasn't said what, exactly, he's going to
do when she still refuses (though I did ask him that question) he
says that he will take it on a case by case basis.
I simply feel that (keep in mind here that she is very sensitive) as
soon as he takes her aside and starts to tell her that she "has" to
do the warm ups and stations in order that she will feel embarrassed
and will know that she has, somehow, disappointed him and will start
to cry. What's the point in that? My husband says that she needs
to learn structure some time.
Of course, there is much more to the arguement but I won't bore you
with an hour's worth of yelling. I just feel that there are
important things to enforce and not important things and this just
isn't that important. However, I can be very stubborn (which is
where my DD gets it from) and I sometimes think that my way is the
only way. So, I would like to hear some other view points on this
one.
Thank you,
Melissa
pam sorooshian
On Jan 28, 2004, at 3:57 PM, melissa4123 wrote:
play at the park together. Seriously. Don't get started down that path
of "classes" for toddlers. There are far too many other wonderful
things you could be doing together - you do not need a "teacher" to put
you through warm-ups and stations. Just play.
(With apologies for the word "just" <G>.)
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> So, I would like to hear some other view points on this one.She's too young for that kind of class, don't you think? Better to go
play at the park together. Seriously. Don't get started down that path
of "classes" for toddlers. There are far too many other wonderful
things you could be doing together - you do not need a "teacher" to put
you through warm-ups and stations. Just play.
(With apologies for the word "just" <G>.)
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
melissa4123
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
<<She's too young for that kind of class, don't you think? Better
to go play at the park together.>>
That's one of the things that I told my husband, and there is a
great park that we found the other day not too far from our house.
After my DD listened to us argue all the way home, she looked at my
DH and said "daddy, I don't want to roll, I don't want to hang, I
don't want to jump. I just want to stay at home." I think what I
was saying finally got through to him then because he looked at me
and almost cried. I believe that, next week, when we are supposed
to be in the gym class, my DD and I are going to the park instead.
Thank you,
Melissa
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
<<She's too young for that kind of class, don't you think? Better
to go play at the park together.>>
That's one of the things that I told my husband, and there is a
great park that we found the other day not too far from our house.
After my DD listened to us argue all the way home, she looked at my
DH and said "daddy, I don't want to roll, I don't want to hang, I
don't want to jump. I just want to stay at home." I think what I
was saying finally got through to him then because he looked at me
and almost cried. I believe that, next week, when we are supposed
to be in the gym class, my DD and I are going to the park instead.
Thank you,
Melissa
melissa4123
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
<<She's too young for that kind of class, don't you think?>>
Oh, one other thing that he said when I told him that I thought she
might be too young for this class was that all the other kids are
her age and they were doing it just fine and seemed to be enjoying
it. I told him that those other kids were probably in day care and
pre-school their whole lives and were used to people telling them
what to do and when to do it. Our DD has never gone to day care and
is used to being able to play where, when, and with what she wants.
Melissa
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
<<She's too young for that kind of class, don't you think?>>
Oh, one other thing that he said when I told him that I thought she
might be too young for this class was that all the other kids are
her age and they were doing it just fine and seemed to be enjoying
it. I told him that those other kids were probably in day care and
pre-school their whole lives and were used to people telling them
what to do and when to do it. Our DD has never gone to day care and
is used to being able to play where, when, and with what she wants.
Melissa
Jon and Rue Kream
The class doesn't sound like much fun to me. I would listen to what
your daughter is telling you with her words and actions, and drop the
class. There are better ways you can spend that time.
Here are some questions your husband could think about, talk to us
about, or choose to ignore <G>:
Why does she need to learn 'structure'?
What are you hoping she gets out of this class?
Do you believe that she should do what you want even if she doesn't want
to? If so, why?
Do you think you have realistic expectations for a 2 year old?
How do you think forcing this issue will affect your relationship with
her?
~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
your daughter is telling you with her words and actions, and drop the
class. There are better ways you can spend that time.
Here are some questions your husband could think about, talk to us
about, or choose to ignore <G>:
Why does she need to learn 'structure'?
What are you hoping she gets out of this class?
Do you believe that she should do what you want even if she doesn't want
to? If so, why?
Do you think you have realistic expectations for a 2 year old?
How do you think forcing this issue will affect your relationship with
her?
~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wife2Vegman
--- melissa4123 <melissa4123@...> wrote:
That is how it should be!
Does he want a daughter who is independent and unique
and self-confident or one that follows the crowd like
a little sheep?
How does he feel about unschooling? It sounds like he
felt embarrassed and foolish because she didn't do
what the other kids were doing.
The money you pay for a class that she isn't enjoying
is wasted when you could use it to go to the zoo, the
park, buy an ice cream cone, and see a movie together.
She doesn't have to learn to follow directions and
stand in line and take turns by being in a class.
Take her to the playground, and when it is too cold or
rainy, go to the play area in the mall. Take a walk,
tumble in the livingroom. Have a tea party with all
the stuffed animals, and then play vet when the snacks
are gone.
She's just a little wee one still. She doesn't need
anyone else than her Momma and Papa right now. She
will learn sharing and taking turns and being kind by
playing with you, and it will come from a desire to
see you smile rather than because someone else told
her to share or wait her turn.
I did the same thing with my first born and her little
brother, not knowing any better. Oh the money we
could have saved on soccer, gymnastics, ballet, tennis
lessons, swimming lessons, preschool... sigh... when I
could have just PLAYED with them.
I guess I haven't really learned my lessons, either,
because recently I asked my 5yo if he would like to
take a gymnastics class like his big cousin David
does.
He said to me, "Will I have to do what the teacher
says even if I don't want to?"
I said, "Probably."
"Then I don't want to." he said.
This time, I listened.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
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>Melissa,
> Oh, one other thing that he said when I told him
> that I thought she
> might be too young for this class was that all the
> other kids are
> her age and they were doing it just fine and seemed
> to be enjoying
> it. I told him that those other kids were probably
> in day care and
> pre-school their whole lives and were used to people
> telling them
> what to do and when to do it. Our DD has never gone
> to day care and
> is used to being able to play where, when, and with
> what she wants.
>
> Melissa
>
>
That is how it should be!
Does he want a daughter who is independent and unique
and self-confident or one that follows the crowd like
a little sheep?
How does he feel about unschooling? It sounds like he
felt embarrassed and foolish because she didn't do
what the other kids were doing.
The money you pay for a class that she isn't enjoying
is wasted when you could use it to go to the zoo, the
park, buy an ice cream cone, and see a movie together.
She doesn't have to learn to follow directions and
stand in line and take turns by being in a class.
Take her to the playground, and when it is too cold or
rainy, go to the play area in the mall. Take a walk,
tumble in the livingroom. Have a tea party with all
the stuffed animals, and then play vet when the snacks
are gone.
She's just a little wee one still. She doesn't need
anyone else than her Momma and Papa right now. She
will learn sharing and taking turns and being kind by
playing with you, and it will come from a desire to
see you smile rather than because someone else told
her to share or wait her turn.
I did the same thing with my first born and her little
brother, not knowing any better. Oh the money we
could have saved on soccer, gymnastics, ballet, tennis
lessons, swimming lessons, preschool... sigh... when I
could have just PLAYED with them.
I guess I haven't really learned my lessons, either,
because recently I asked my 5yo if he would like to
take a gymnastics class like his big cousin David
does.
He said to me, "Will I have to do what the teacher
says even if I don't want to?"
I said, "Probably."
"Then I don't want to." he said.
This time, I listened.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
Mary
From: "melissa4123" <melissa4123@...>
<<So, I would like to hear some other view points on this one.>>
I agree with everyone else so far. She's way too young and certainly doesn't
sound like she's into what, or I should say how, they want her to learn. You
can find a park where she can do all the things she likes. Even the parks
that have the course to run where they have certain exercises to do. Those
usually have bars to hang from and even beams to balance on. You can even
make one yourself at home. Let her have fun without all the pressure to
perform like all the other little kids.
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
<<So, I would like to hear some other view points on this one.>>
I agree with everyone else so far. She's way too young and certainly doesn't
sound like she's into what, or I should say how, they want her to learn. You
can find a park where she can do all the things she likes. Even the parks
that have the course to run where they have certain exercises to do. Those
usually have bars to hang from and even beams to balance on. You can even
make one yourself at home. Let her have fun without all the pressure to
perform like all the other little kids.
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
Lisa H
<<all the other kids are her age and they were doing it just fine and seemed to be enjoying
it.>>
If it's any help - you can let your husband know that the kids who didn't have fun and don't "fit" into that kind of class aren't there. We've left classes that were too structured and/or simply uninteresting to my kids. You don't always know until you try something. And I want my kids to know they can try something, change their minds and not "have to finish" everything they start because someone say's so or because money's been paid. And then sometimes, they've returned to it when they are older.
My kids liked participating in group activities (not always classes) - but I always found "teachers" who were willing to let my kids follow their own path...and if they didn't and my kids were not happy - we dropped out of the activity. I am always very careful to find out cancellation and refund policy before enrolling. I can not commit my child to 8 weeks, 16 weeks and sometimes 32 weeks of a program when they've never done the activity before. And if I can't get a refund I carefully evaluate my budget before enrolling, deciding if we can afford the money if they loose interest.
I was once given a full refund by a dance school because I was upfront with the owner about my concerns. (My dd, 5 at the time - had been asking for ballet, "real ballet" - not the creative movement classes that i hosted. Knowing my dd well, I was not convinced that she wouldn't be bored) The schools owner assured me that no one had ever dropped out of her program - and that she has had many homeschoolers in her school. After three classes, when my dd didn't want to go anymore as my behavior reflected respect to both dd and owner I received a full refund - even for the classes she had attended <lol>. A year later, i heard it said that this school 'never, ever, ever' gives a refund. Well - that was not obviously the case.
Anyway...as someone already said...they will learn to stand in line (don't we do that at the grocery store) and they will learn to respectfully wait their turns (given they are allowed to finish their own turns and not pushed off the swing before they are done) and they will learn to make room on the slide for those that were trained to only go down the slide (not up <omg>)
Lisa Heyman
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it.>>
If it's any help - you can let your husband know that the kids who didn't have fun and don't "fit" into that kind of class aren't there. We've left classes that were too structured and/or simply uninteresting to my kids. You don't always know until you try something. And I want my kids to know they can try something, change their minds and not "have to finish" everything they start because someone say's so or because money's been paid. And then sometimes, they've returned to it when they are older.
My kids liked participating in group activities (not always classes) - but I always found "teachers" who were willing to let my kids follow their own path...and if they didn't and my kids were not happy - we dropped out of the activity. I am always very careful to find out cancellation and refund policy before enrolling. I can not commit my child to 8 weeks, 16 weeks and sometimes 32 weeks of a program when they've never done the activity before. And if I can't get a refund I carefully evaluate my budget before enrolling, deciding if we can afford the money if they loose interest.
I was once given a full refund by a dance school because I was upfront with the owner about my concerns. (My dd, 5 at the time - had been asking for ballet, "real ballet" - not the creative movement classes that i hosted. Knowing my dd well, I was not convinced that she wouldn't be bored) The schools owner assured me that no one had ever dropped out of her program - and that she has had many homeschoolers in her school. After three classes, when my dd didn't want to go anymore as my behavior reflected respect to both dd and owner I received a full refund - even for the classes she had attended <lol>. A year later, i heard it said that this school 'never, ever, ever' gives a refund. Well - that was not obviously the case.
Anyway...as someone already said...they will learn to stand in line (don't we do that at the grocery store) and they will learn to respectfully wait their turns (given they are allowed to finish their own turns and not pushed off the swing before they are done) and they will learn to make room on the slide for those that were trained to only go down the slide (not up <omg>)
Lisa Heyman
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Roberts
When Sarah did gymnastics at 4, they had enough personnel that if a child wanted to be on the beam when everyone else was doing tumbling, they could do so. Sarah would have periods where she didn't want to participate in one aspect or another, and they had no problem with it at all. They didn't push her to do anything she didn't want to.
Is there another gym in the area that might be more accepting and accomodating and less rigid, especially given your daughter's age?
MamaBeth
melissa4123 <melissa4123@...> wrote:
My DD is 2.5 years old and my DH and I have recently enrolled her in
a gymnastics class. She has been going to Gymboree since she was 6
months old and we thought that she would enjoy the gymnastics. Both
my husband and myself go to the class with her.
Here's the part that I would like to get some feedback on. The
class is much more structured than what she is used to (in gymboree,
the kids can pretty much run around and play on what they want). In
the new gymnastics class, there is a warm up time and then stations
that they "have" to go and practice on.
There have only been two classes so far however, after both classes,
my husband and myself have gotten into arguments about what happened
(or rather didn't happen during the class). Both times, our DD has
all but refused to do the warm ups. The first class, she did most
of them and then she didn't want to so, we did them and hoped that
she would join in (which she didn't). As soon as they started with
the stations, she had a great time. This time, she refused to do
any of the warm ups and didn't want to do some of the stations. I'm
of the opinion that, if she dosen't want to do the forward rolls but
does want to walk on the balance beem then let her walk on the
balance beem. What's the big deal? But, my husband wants her to go
in order (as does the teacher who was shooting me dirty looks in
class today because I let her go out of order) and says that we
should sit her down and talk to her and tell her that she has to do
the stations in order. He hasn't said what, exactly, he's going to
do when she still refuses (though I did ask him that question) he
says that he will take it on a case by case basis.
I simply feel that (keep in mind here that she is very sensitive) as
soon as he takes her aside and starts to tell her that she "has" to
do the warm ups and stations in order that she will feel embarrassed
and will know that she has, somehow, disappointed him and will start
to cry. What's the point in that? My husband says that she needs
to learn structure some time.
Of course, there is much more to the arguement but I won't bore you
with an hour's worth of yelling. I just feel that there are
important things to enforce and not important things and this just
isn't that important. However, I can be very stubborn (which is
where my DD gets it from) and I sometimes think that my way is the
only way. So, I would like to hear some other view points on this
one.
Thank you,
Melissa
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Is there another gym in the area that might be more accepting and accomodating and less rigid, especially given your daughter's age?
MamaBeth
melissa4123 <melissa4123@...> wrote:
My DD is 2.5 years old and my DH and I have recently enrolled her in
a gymnastics class. She has been going to Gymboree since she was 6
months old and we thought that she would enjoy the gymnastics. Both
my husband and myself go to the class with her.
Here's the part that I would like to get some feedback on. The
class is much more structured than what she is used to (in gymboree,
the kids can pretty much run around and play on what they want). In
the new gymnastics class, there is a warm up time and then stations
that they "have" to go and practice on.
There have only been two classes so far however, after both classes,
my husband and myself have gotten into arguments about what happened
(or rather didn't happen during the class). Both times, our DD has
all but refused to do the warm ups. The first class, she did most
of them and then she didn't want to so, we did them and hoped that
she would join in (which she didn't). As soon as they started with
the stations, she had a great time. This time, she refused to do
any of the warm ups and didn't want to do some of the stations. I'm
of the opinion that, if she dosen't want to do the forward rolls but
does want to walk on the balance beem then let her walk on the
balance beem. What's the big deal? But, my husband wants her to go
in order (as does the teacher who was shooting me dirty looks in
class today because I let her go out of order) and says that we
should sit her down and talk to her and tell her that she has to do
the stations in order. He hasn't said what, exactly, he's going to
do when she still refuses (though I did ask him that question) he
says that he will take it on a case by case basis.
I simply feel that (keep in mind here that she is very sensitive) as
soon as he takes her aside and starts to tell her that she "has" to
do the warm ups and stations in order that she will feel embarrassed
and will know that she has, somehow, disappointed him and will start
to cry. What's the point in that? My husband says that she needs
to learn structure some time.
Of course, there is much more to the arguement but I won't bore you
with an hour's worth of yelling. I just feel that there are
important things to enforce and not important things and this just
isn't that important. However, I can be very stubborn (which is
where my DD gets it from) and I sometimes think that my way is the
only way. So, I would like to hear some other view points on this
one.
Thank you,
Melissa
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
melissa4123
--- In [email protected], Elizabeth Roberts
<mamabethuscg@y...> wrote:
<<When Sarah did gymnastics at 4, they had enough personnel that if
a child wanted to be on the beam when everyone else was doing
tumbling, they could do so. Sarah would have periods where she
didn't want to participate in one aspect or another, and they had no
problem with it at all. They didn't push her to do anything she
didn't want to.
MamaBeth>>
I just got off of the phone with my SIL and she said the same thing
about her DD's gymnastics teacher. If one of the kids wants to do
something else that the other kids aren't doing, the teacher would
not make a big deal of it. I am going to see if there is another
teacher or class that we can take. If not, I AM NOT taking my DD
back there. Period...and I'm really not too worried about what my
DH's opinion is at this point. That may sound harsh but, this is
our daughter's self-esteem that we are talking about and the mama
bear in me is coming out, with a vengeance.
Melissa
<mamabethuscg@y...> wrote:
<<When Sarah did gymnastics at 4, they had enough personnel that if
a child wanted to be on the beam when everyone else was doing
tumbling, they could do so. Sarah would have periods where she
didn't want to participate in one aspect or another, and they had no
problem with it at all. They didn't push her to do anything she
didn't want to.
MamaBeth>>
I just got off of the phone with my SIL and she said the same thing
about her DD's gymnastics teacher. If one of the kids wants to do
something else that the other kids aren't doing, the teacher would
not make a big deal of it. I am going to see if there is another
teacher or class that we can take. If not, I AM NOT taking my DD
back there. Period...and I'm really not too worried about what my
DH's opinion is at this point. That may sound harsh but, this is
our daughter's self-esteem that we are talking about and the mama
bear in me is coming out, with a vengeance.
Melissa
melissa4123
--- In [email protected], Wife2Vegman
<wifetovegman2002@y...> wrote:
<<How does he feel about unschooling?>>
Honestly, I don't think that he really understands it. I have tried
to explain it to him and even left books for him to read about it.
He is not around much (working 12 to 14 hour days, 6 days a week and
sometimes 7) and really leaves these types of things to me. He
simply says that he trusts me and believes that I will do what's
best for our DD.
<<It sounds like he felt embarrassed and foolish because she didn't
do what the other kids were doing.>>
You hit the nail on the head here. He was embarrassed because she
was just sitting there and the other kids were doing what the
teacher wanted. Where as I, on the other hand, could care less. I
am not there to make friends with the teacher or the other parents.
I am there because I thought that my DD would have a good time. He
said that he would stay home next week to see if she has a better
time without him, that I seemed to handle it better than him. I
handle it better than him because I'm not concerned with what others
think of me or my DD.
<<Have a tea party with all the stuffed animals>>
Sounds fun...I think we will do that tomorrow. <g>
Melissa
<wifetovegman2002@y...> wrote:
<<How does he feel about unschooling?>>
Honestly, I don't think that he really understands it. I have tried
to explain it to him and even left books for him to read about it.
He is not around much (working 12 to 14 hour days, 6 days a week and
sometimes 7) and really leaves these types of things to me. He
simply says that he trusts me and believes that I will do what's
best for our DD.
<<It sounds like he felt embarrassed and foolish because she didn't
do what the other kids were doing.>>
You hit the nail on the head here. He was embarrassed because she
was just sitting there and the other kids were doing what the
teacher wanted. Where as I, on the other hand, could care less. I
am not there to make friends with the teacher or the other parents.
I am there because I thought that my DD would have a good time. He
said that he would stay home next week to see if she has a better
time without him, that I seemed to handle it better than him. I
handle it better than him because I'm not concerned with what others
think of me or my DD.
<<Have a tea party with all the stuffed animals>>
Sounds fun...I think we will do that tomorrow. <g>
Melissa
melissa4123
--- In [email protected], "Jon and Rue Kream"
<skreams@c...> wrote:
<<Why does she need to learn 'structure'?>>
I actually did ask this question and he never came up with an
answer. Just said that she can't do whatever she wants forever, she
will need to learn to follow direction some time. When I pointed
out that she follows direction just fine at home he said "yeah,
you're right." and that was it.
<<Do you believe that she should do what you want even if she
doesn't want to? If so, why?>>
The answer to this question was "yes" because she won't always get
her way the way she does at home. Again, when I pointed out that
she dosen't always get her way at home and that there are lots of
times when she is unhappy with my authority, he said "yeah, you're
right."
Melissa
<skreams@c...> wrote:
<<Why does she need to learn 'structure'?>>
I actually did ask this question and he never came up with an
answer. Just said that she can't do whatever she wants forever, she
will need to learn to follow direction some time. When I pointed
out that she follows direction just fine at home he said "yeah,
you're right." and that was it.
<<Do you believe that she should do what you want even if she
doesn't want to? If so, why?>>
The answer to this question was "yes" because she won't always get
her way the way she does at home. Again, when I pointed out that
she dosen't always get her way at home and that there are lots of
times when she is unhappy with my authority, he said "yeah, you're
right."
Melissa
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/28/2004 9:19:56 PM Central Standard Time,
melissa4123@... writes:
point in situations such as you have described because the way it is set up is
not in my power to change and the resistance you meet is so hard to deal with.
I too have always had the kids who could not see the point in certain things
and then neither could I but knew that someone was going to have a problem
with that, LOL. I look forward to hearing others answers on this dilemma.
Here is how I worked out one with a similar problem but much shorter term.
My 16yro and I attended an airbrush body tattoo workshop this past fall which
lasted 2 days. After several hours he was quite bored with airbrushing
stencils on a tablet (and so was I, LOL). Everyone else seemed quite happy with it.
He started messing around painting what he wanted (on the paper) and I could
tell that the wife (it was a husband and wife team who taught this) was not
happy that he was not "doing stencils". I don't know if he picked up on her
disapproval or not, he probably did but decided to ignore it. She also made several
comments to me, it was a great moment for me, it was one of the first times
in my life (my shift in thinking was already occurring by then) that I let her
talk and went on letting my son do what he wanted. I reasoned that he was
right, it was boring and he was not interested in doing stencils or tattoos, he
was not hurting anything or anyone and I had paid for the workshop, $175 each so
it was my dime. I wold just laugh when she said something, that was a good
day for us both.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
melissa4123@... writes:
> I just feel that there areBoy can I relate, I so often feel the same way and find it hard to press my
> important things to enforce and not important things and this just
> isn't that important.
point in situations such as you have described because the way it is set up is
not in my power to change and the resistance you meet is so hard to deal with.
I too have always had the kids who could not see the point in certain things
and then neither could I but knew that someone was going to have a problem
with that, LOL. I look forward to hearing others answers on this dilemma.
Here is how I worked out one with a similar problem but much shorter term.
My 16yro and I attended an airbrush body tattoo workshop this past fall which
lasted 2 days. After several hours he was quite bored with airbrushing
stencils on a tablet (and so was I, LOL). Everyone else seemed quite happy with it.
He started messing around painting what he wanted (on the paper) and I could
tell that the wife (it was a husband and wife team who taught this) was not
happy that he was not "doing stencils". I don't know if he picked up on her
disapproval or not, he probably did but decided to ignore it. She also made several
comments to me, it was a great moment for me, it was one of the first times
in my life (my shift in thinking was already occurring by then) that I let her
talk and went on letting my son do what he wanted. I reasoned that he was
right, it was boring and he was not interested in doing stencils or tattoos, he
was not hurting anything or anyone and I had paid for the workshop, $175 each so
it was my dime. I wold just laugh when she said something, that was a good
day for us both.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/28/2004 9:31:54 PM Central Standard Time,
melissa4123@... writes:
like this in the past when one of us has uncomfortable feelings about
something but don't necessarily disagree that it should be done. I have asked him to
attend a few things which I knew would cause me to be too emotional and he
agreed and it worked out well. You could try it, I'd love to hear how it goes.
You may find you give other parents the courage to express how they feel too. I
wonder how often we do things because they have always been done that way and
in reality no one likes it but everyone is afraid to say so.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
melissa4123@... writes:
> HeThat actually may not be a bad idea to try. My husband and I have done things
> said that he would stay home next week to see if she has a better
> time without him, that I seemed to handle it better than him. I
> handle it better than him because I'm not concerned with what others
> think of me or my DD.
>
like this in the past when one of us has uncomfortable feelings about
something but don't necessarily disagree that it should be done. I have asked him to
attend a few things which I knew would cause me to be too emotional and he
agreed and it worked out well. You could try it, I'd love to hear how it goes.
You may find you give other parents the courage to express how they feel too. I
wonder how often we do things because they have always been done that way and
in reality no one likes it but everyone is afraid to say so.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/28/2004 9:45:24 PM Central Standard Time,
wifetovegman2002@... writes:
class and he said "Can't we just stay home and cook?"
Smart kid,
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wifetovegman2002@... writes:
> I guess I haven't really learned my lessons, either,LOL, I asked my now 12yro a few years ago if he wanted to take a cooking
> because recently I asked my 5yo if he would like to
> take a gymnastics class like his big cousin David
> does.
>
> He said to me, "Will I have to do what the teacher
> says even if I don't want to?"
>
> I said, "Probably."
>
> "Then I don't want to." he said.
>
class and he said "Can't we just stay home and cook?"
Smart kid,
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Maybe it would be better if just one of you went and not both. Maybe if he's
there and not you, your daughter will take his encouragement or pressure and
just "do the class right." Or maybe you should just take her so she doesn't
feel pulled ack and forth between her mom and dad.
Sandra
there and not you, your daughter will take his encouragement or pressure and
just "do the class right." Or maybe you should just take her so she doesn't
feel pulled ack and forth between her mom and dad.
Sandra
pam sorooshian
Melissa - have you read, "The Hurried Child" by David Elkind? PLEASE
read it and maybe get your husband to read it if at all possible?
-pam
read it and maybe get your husband to read it if at all possible?
-pam
On Jan 28, 2004, at 4:42 PM, melissa4123 wrote:
> --- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
> <pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
>
> <<She's too young for that kind of class, don't you think?>>
>
> Oh, one other thing that he said when I told him that I thought she
> might be too young for this class was that all the other kids are
> her age and they were doing it just fine and seemed to be enjoying
> it. I told him that those other kids were probably in day care and
> pre-school their whole lives and were used to people telling them
> what to do and when to do it. Our DD has never gone to day care and
> is used to being able to play where, when, and with what she wants.
>
> Melissa
>
>
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Fetteroll
on 1/28/04 7:42 PM, melissa4123 at melissa4123@... wrote:
don't stick with the class. An art class only has kids who enjoy art.
Putting any child into an art class won't make them enjoy art. They just get
bored and cause chaos.
One of the holes of that class is enjoying structure (or at least being
broken to conform to it.)
He isn't seeing all 2-3 yos. He's seeing the ones that fit through the
sieve.
Joyce
> I told him that those other kids were probably in day care andA voluntary class is like a sieve. The kids who don't fit through the holes
> pre-school their whole lives and were used to people telling them
> what to do and when to do it. Our DD has never gone to day care and
> is used to being able to play where, when, and with what she wants.
don't stick with the class. An art class only has kids who enjoy art.
Putting any child into an art class won't make them enjoy art. They just get
bored and cause chaos.
One of the holes of that class is enjoying structure (or at least being
broken to conform to it.)
He isn't seeing all 2-3 yos. He's seeing the ones that fit through the
sieve.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/28/04 11:32:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
melissa4123@... writes:
class last year but after a couple of classes they hated it and we never went
back. That just isn't how they like to explore the world. They like to look
at and read about what they are interested in.
My boys also are not interested in group, organized sports. That is why I,
with another Mom, started what we call a "free day" we found a gym that has all
the gym equipment, basketballs, hockey, roller blades, and also has things
like pool, table hockey and board games, and we have made an arrangement to use
it once a week when it is not in use. The kids can do whatever they want. We
keep an eye out for safety but if they want to kick the basketball around or
shoot at the hoops without any of the "basketball rules" they can. The kids
love it and have a great time. They go from one thing to the next.
Are there others in your area that are unschoolers or are just a little bit
less structured, your local homeschool group? Maybe you could get together and
set up something a little less structured for the kids. I know that if there
is a group, most gyms here will work something out to give classes and work
out a reasonable rate. Our homeschool group did that working with a local gym,
to get their own classes set up during the day when most other kids are in
school.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
melissa4123@... writes:
> Oh, one other thing that he said when I told him that I thought sheMy boys are 6 and 9 and hate classes like that. We tried a "science center"
> might be too young for this class was that all the other kids are
> her age and they were doing it just fine and seemed to be enjoying
> it. I told him that those other kids were probably in day care and
> pre-school their whole lives and were used to people telling them
> what to do and when to do it. Our DD has never gone to day care and
> is used to being able to play where, when, and with what she wants.
>
>
class last year but after a couple of classes they hated it and we never went
back. That just isn't how they like to explore the world. They like to look
at and read about what they are interested in.
My boys also are not interested in group, organized sports. That is why I,
with another Mom, started what we call a "free day" we found a gym that has all
the gym equipment, basketballs, hockey, roller blades, and also has things
like pool, table hockey and board games, and we have made an arrangement to use
it once a week when it is not in use. The kids can do whatever they want. We
keep an eye out for safety but if they want to kick the basketball around or
shoot at the hoops without any of the "basketball rules" they can. The kids
love it and have a great time. They go from one thing to the next.
Are there others in your area that are unschoolers or are just a little bit
less structured, your local homeschool group? Maybe you could get together and
set up something a little less structured for the kids. I know that if there
is a group, most gyms here will work something out to give classes and work
out a reasonable rate. Our homeschool group did that working with a local gym,
to get their own classes set up during the day when most other kids are in
school.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/28/2004 11:12:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mamabethuscg@... writes:
Of course, there is much more to the arguement but I won't bore you
with an hour's worth of yelling. I just feel that there are
important things to enforce and not important things and this just
isn't that important. However, I can be very stubborn (which is
where my DD gets it from) and I sometimes think that my way is the
only way. So, I would like to hear some other view points on this
one.
I would check and see if there is an "open" gym time. Where you pay a
certain fee and the children come in and have somewhat free run of the activities,
nothing is really structured, but there are coaches around to assist and
monitor. Most gyms have this at least once a week. It generally isn't advertised
with the classes because they would like the security of having paid clients in
classes each week. The open gym is a pay as you come type thing.
I can't see "making" her do what the class does. I also see the point of a
class being just what it is, a class and the teacher wanting some order with a
group of children. It is probably pretty distracting to him and the other
children to have one that goes around doing things as she feels like it. I'm not
saying that's bad, just that in the scope of a structured class it's probably
not going to work. Think about if your child was one of the ones who was
going through the routine in the same fashion as the coach and everyone else but
one child wanted to and did things in her own rhythm and in her own time and
some things not at all... pretty distracting I would think.
Gymnastics are all about routines anyway. Certain amounts of time doing this
thing or that. I know at early ages you don't expect that but it's being
laid as a foundation. A BIG reason great gymnastic facilities LOVE
homeschoolers. Their parents don't object to sixty hours or more a week in the gym, doing
things the COACHES way. I also have to add that the gymnasts trust their
coaches because they WANT to be there and do this. Well, some might not like it
as much as their mothers do...
Look for the open gym day/night, I think your daughter will love that. Same
equipment same children but they can run from station to station as they
please, that will be great fun with minimal stress. Oh, and warm ups ARE
important, not just some routine to begin with. Stretches muscles and ligaments and
warms them up to avoid injuries when climbing, jumping and such.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamabethuscg@... writes:
Of course, there is much more to the arguement but I won't bore you
with an hour's worth of yelling. I just feel that there are
important things to enforce and not important things and this just
isn't that important. However, I can be very stubborn (which is
where my DD gets it from) and I sometimes think that my way is the
only way. So, I would like to hear some other view points on this
one.
I would check and see if there is an "open" gym time. Where you pay a
certain fee and the children come in and have somewhat free run of the activities,
nothing is really structured, but there are coaches around to assist and
monitor. Most gyms have this at least once a week. It generally isn't advertised
with the classes because they would like the security of having paid clients in
classes each week. The open gym is a pay as you come type thing.
I can't see "making" her do what the class does. I also see the point of a
class being just what it is, a class and the teacher wanting some order with a
group of children. It is probably pretty distracting to him and the other
children to have one that goes around doing things as she feels like it. I'm not
saying that's bad, just that in the scope of a structured class it's probably
not going to work. Think about if your child was one of the ones who was
going through the routine in the same fashion as the coach and everyone else but
one child wanted to and did things in her own rhythm and in her own time and
some things not at all... pretty distracting I would think.
Gymnastics are all about routines anyway. Certain amounts of time doing this
thing or that. I know at early ages you don't expect that but it's being
laid as a foundation. A BIG reason great gymnastic facilities LOVE
homeschoolers. Their parents don't object to sixty hours or more a week in the gym, doing
things the COACHES way. I also have to add that the gymnasts trust their
coaches because they WANT to be there and do this. Well, some might not like it
as much as their mothers do...
Look for the open gym day/night, I think your daughter will love that. Same
equipment same children but they can run from station to station as they
please, that will be great fun with minimal stress. Oh, and warm ups ARE
important, not just some routine to begin with. Stretches muscles and ligaments and
warms them up to avoid injuries when climbing, jumping and such.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa H
<<How does he feel about unschooling?>>
My husband is not always inclined to read a book or articles I leave for him. Occasionally I've read articles to him, while we are driving - in fact, when my girls happen to be in the car on these instances, I think it has helped them to hear the info as well. I also send him snippets of emails from the lists that i am on that might address whatever concerns he expresses at the moment.
As my husband is with kids to the same degree that i am - he doesn't always know all that goes on. It's been important for me to share with him on a daily basis what we did in our day. Sometimes this does translate into a list of "what was learned" today...or rather "what was discussed" today or what I witnessed today that displays that they are "learning."
<<It sounds like he felt embarrassed and foolish because she didn't
do what the other kids were doing.>>
My husband has felt it to be very helpful to be with other homeschooling families. He can discuss his feelings with other dads and know that he is not alone. He can see the kids in the group and appreciate what this is all about - and the individuality that is cherished in the group. And as he sees his friends schooled kids grow into teenagers vs the hs teenagers he can really really appreciate the differences.
Lisa Heyman
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My husband is not always inclined to read a book or articles I leave for him. Occasionally I've read articles to him, while we are driving - in fact, when my girls happen to be in the car on these instances, I think it has helped them to hear the info as well. I also send him snippets of emails from the lists that i am on that might address whatever concerns he expresses at the moment.
As my husband is with kids to the same degree that i am - he doesn't always know all that goes on. It's been important for me to share with him on a daily basis what we did in our day. Sometimes this does translate into a list of "what was learned" today...or rather "what was discussed" today or what I witnessed today that displays that they are "learning."
<<It sounds like he felt embarrassed and foolish because she didn't
do what the other kids were doing.>>
My husband has felt it to be very helpful to be with other homeschooling families. He can discuss his feelings with other dads and know that he is not alone. He can see the kids in the group and appreciate what this is all about - and the individuality that is cherished in the group. And as he sees his friends schooled kids grow into teenagers vs the hs teenagers he can really really appreciate the differences.
Lisa Heyman
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/29/04 11:39:20 AM, Lmanathome@... writes:
<< My husband has felt it to be very helpful to be with other homeschooling
families. He can discuss his feelings with other dads and know that he is not
alone. He can see the kids in the group and appreciate what this is all about
- and the individuality that is cherished in the group. And as he sees his
friends schooled kids grow into teenagers vs the hs teenagers he can really
really appreciate the differences. >>
That helped my husband more than anything else--seeing other people's
children.
When Kirby was five, six and seven, sometimes my husband would say things to
indicate he suspected Kirby to be behind others, or more babyish than others,
or less sociable, etc. I asked my husband SEVERAL times how many other kids
Kirby's age he had been around lately. None. And I asked him a few times if
he remembered how it felt to be that age. He didn't. I do. My husband
doesn't remember what he ever got for Christmas or a birthday when he was little.
He barely remembers anything of day to day life. His vivid childhood
memories have to do with being injured (broken bones) and lost (at the world's fair
in Seattle, and then in a hospital in another state, not knowing where or who
his relatives were other than "Uncle Ed" and his cousin's name).
So I gradually managed to get more kids into our home, and to get my husband
out to where more kids (schooled or not) were, and it helped immensely for him
to have a basis for comparison.
Now that our kids are all in the double digits, we hear "oh how mature!"
And it's not that they're "mature," it's just that they're real and whole. They
can also be "immature" in that they can play with toys and be happy hanging
around with younger kids. There is a kind of false maturity (posturing,
sighing, professing to hate younger kids' things) which my kids never learned.
There is a kid of real maturity (involving NOT sighing, posturing, pretending)
which kids at school can hardly grow into due to their surroundings.
Sandra
<< My husband has felt it to be very helpful to be with other homeschooling
families. He can discuss his feelings with other dads and know that he is not
alone. He can see the kids in the group and appreciate what this is all about
- and the individuality that is cherished in the group. And as he sees his
friends schooled kids grow into teenagers vs the hs teenagers he can really
really appreciate the differences. >>
That helped my husband more than anything else--seeing other people's
children.
When Kirby was five, six and seven, sometimes my husband would say things to
indicate he suspected Kirby to be behind others, or more babyish than others,
or less sociable, etc. I asked my husband SEVERAL times how many other kids
Kirby's age he had been around lately. None. And I asked him a few times if
he remembered how it felt to be that age. He didn't. I do. My husband
doesn't remember what he ever got for Christmas or a birthday when he was little.
He barely remembers anything of day to day life. His vivid childhood
memories have to do with being injured (broken bones) and lost (at the world's fair
in Seattle, and then in a hospital in another state, not knowing where or who
his relatives were other than "Uncle Ed" and his cousin's name).
So I gradually managed to get more kids into our home, and to get my husband
out to where more kids (schooled or not) were, and it helped immensely for him
to have a basis for comparison.
Now that our kids are all in the double digits, we hear "oh how mature!"
And it's not that they're "mature," it's just that they're real and whole. They
can also be "immature" in that they can play with toys and be happy hanging
around with younger kids. There is a kind of false maturity (posturing,
sighing, professing to hate younger kids' things) which my kids never learned.
There is a kid of real maturity (involving NOT sighing, posturing, pretending)
which kids at school can hardly grow into due to their surroundings.
Sandra