Christian Unschooling misc.
happyadvocate
(I dont know who said this but...)
would that reprisal be? Eternal damnation? Is it possible to be truly
1 - When I read "fear of reprisal" I realized that the thread started
talking about Eternal Damnation - and yet I know all too well the
painful reprisals of my former church and some others. Fear can be
of man or of the unseen. People can exercise outward forms of their
religion because of a vague fear of hell, because of fear of being
humiliated or because of fear of being beaten, ostracized, etc.
Interestingly enough, schools have throughout history employed the
same punishments. And with the same results: either outright
rejection or else outward practice without understanding.
2 - Because God himself is "truly ok with" us making our own choices
and allowing us to not choose Him, then I feel obligated to emulate
that to the best of my ability.
3 - Because Eternal Damnation is just not too real here, many
churches and control-freak leaders feel compelled to institute a hell-
on-earth. I spent many years in one. Supposedly this will "teach"
people to avoid hell. In my case it was successful - I learned to
avoid those people and groups.
4 - I presume that emulating heaven will be more motivating to others
to want to learn about it and visit, eh? And so, that's my job, when
I remember to do it. I mostly remember to do it when I am not
obsessing about avoiding hell in the future, or obsessing about the
people who have tried to make my life into a living hell in the
past. Now, as for teaching children, I'd presume that unschooling
them toward their natural positive interests and gifts would be a lot
more likely to interest them in eternal happiness. There is this
Bible verse, "Parents, do not irritate your children." Hmmmmmm
It may have been already said, but unschoolers who also believe in
Christ are getting "it" from both sides, as to whether one can
unschool and "be a Christian". Ironic. harsh!
The only mention I know of in the Bible regarding "unschooled" is a
positive one, and the term "Christian" was coined to be derogatory,
and is not a Biblical term. So hey, why not?
I just hope we can avoid the "What and who really is unschooling?"
discussion, pretty please? It is sooooooo boring and we only find out
in the end that no one is "not doing school" quite perfectly enough
for the rest of us.
I didn't learn of "original sin" in my childhood church either.
Later I reconciled the concept more like "nobody's perfect".
Certainly my compassionate honesty with my child will cover those
times that I am hurt, disappointed, etc.
If we are both travelling to the city on the train, can't we just
make interesting conversation together on the way? I see unschooling
and faith as simultaneous journeys to a distant location. I tend to
see and talk to those who are coming "from" a place near me, and yet
I also might encourage someone else to make the trip, and they might
have to take a completely different mode of transportation or route.
As to the large Christ-Centered Unschooling list (CCU-List) -- well,
it *is* a resource -- maybe for those coming from a certain direction
into that city I just referred to. It's a research and fun-oriented
group for encouragement, quite a diverse group. However, there are
no archives and it often has a high volume of mail. There are many
other lists that are also Christian Unschooling resources. One other
large one is the "Delight-Driven" list, and then there is a weekly
Christian unschooling chat, too, on www.HomeschoolChat.us
Sandra mentioned priorities. I'd say that due to my divorce I had to
turn to unschooling to survive in a shark-pool of other priorities,
and so my kids could see their dad and lower their own stress. One
person can only do so much, and schools more and more looked like
places to be avoided. So I would have been a failure as a mom for not
making them attend and do schoolwork, or a failure as a mom for not
doing school-at-home because I just plain couldn't take the time, or
else I could listen to my children's gifts and my own talents and we
could enjoy each other's company.
Unschooling and my faith both hold IMHO that we - child and adult -
are equals learning together; are all, in fact, children with so much
more to learn and so much growing to do.
Blessings
~Kit
>I can see >how the "fear of reprisal" is a pivotal issue. But, I'mwondering how one would define "fear of >reprisal." What exactly
would that reprisal be? Eternal damnation? Is it possible to be truly
>okay with the idea of one's children being eternally damned becausea parent values the >autonomy of their choices?
1 - When I read "fear of reprisal" I realized that the thread started
talking about Eternal Damnation - and yet I know all too well the
painful reprisals of my former church and some others. Fear can be
of man or of the unseen. People can exercise outward forms of their
religion because of a vague fear of hell, because of fear of being
humiliated or because of fear of being beaten, ostracized, etc.
Interestingly enough, schools have throughout history employed the
same punishments. And with the same results: either outright
rejection or else outward practice without understanding.
2 - Because God himself is "truly ok with" us making our own choices
and allowing us to not choose Him, then I feel obligated to emulate
that to the best of my ability.
3 - Because Eternal Damnation is just not too real here, many
churches and control-freak leaders feel compelled to institute a hell-
on-earth. I spent many years in one. Supposedly this will "teach"
people to avoid hell. In my case it was successful - I learned to
avoid those people and groups.
4 - I presume that emulating heaven will be more motivating to others
to want to learn about it and visit, eh? And so, that's my job, when
I remember to do it. I mostly remember to do it when I am not
obsessing about avoiding hell in the future, or obsessing about the
people who have tried to make my life into a living hell in the
past. Now, as for teaching children, I'd presume that unschooling
them toward their natural positive interests and gifts would be a lot
more likely to interest them in eternal happiness. There is this
Bible verse, "Parents, do not irritate your children." Hmmmmmm
It may have been already said, but unschoolers who also believe in
Christ are getting "it" from both sides, as to whether one can
unschool and "be a Christian". Ironic. harsh!
The only mention I know of in the Bible regarding "unschooled" is a
positive one, and the term "Christian" was coined to be derogatory,
and is not a Biblical term. So hey, why not?
I just hope we can avoid the "What and who really is unschooling?"
discussion, pretty please? It is sooooooo boring and we only find out
in the end that no one is "not doing school" quite perfectly enough
for the rest of us.
I didn't learn of "original sin" in my childhood church either.
Later I reconciled the concept more like "nobody's perfect".
Certainly my compassionate honesty with my child will cover those
times that I am hurt, disappointed, etc.
If we are both travelling to the city on the train, can't we just
make interesting conversation together on the way? I see unschooling
and faith as simultaneous journeys to a distant location. I tend to
see and talk to those who are coming "from" a place near me, and yet
I also might encourage someone else to make the trip, and they might
have to take a completely different mode of transportation or route.
As to the large Christ-Centered Unschooling list (CCU-List) -- well,
it *is* a resource -- maybe for those coming from a certain direction
into that city I just referred to. It's a research and fun-oriented
group for encouragement, quite a diverse group. However, there are
no archives and it often has a high volume of mail. There are many
other lists that are also Christian Unschooling resources. One other
large one is the "Delight-Driven" list, and then there is a weekly
Christian unschooling chat, too, on www.HomeschoolChat.us
Sandra mentioned priorities. I'd say that due to my divorce I had to
turn to unschooling to survive in a shark-pool of other priorities,
and so my kids could see their dad and lower their own stress. One
person can only do so much, and schools more and more looked like
places to be avoided. So I would have been a failure as a mom for not
making them attend and do schoolwork, or a failure as a mom for not
doing school-at-home because I just plain couldn't take the time, or
else I could listen to my children's gifts and my own talents and we
could enjoy each other's company.
Unschooling and my faith both hold IMHO that we - child and adult -
are equals learning together; are all, in fact, children with so much
more to learn and so much growing to do.
Blessings
~Kit
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/21/04 1:05:58 AM, kittiecatte@... writes:
<< It may have been already said, but unschoolers who also believe in
Christ are getting "it" from both sides, as to whether one can
unschool and "be a Christian". Ironic. harsh! >>
I think that's the one thing that hasn't been said. Good point.
Unschoolers get grief from outside AND inside the homeschooling world. I
hadn't thought that Christian unschoolers have it from four directions, then.
That IS harsh!
Sandra
<< It may have been already said, but unschoolers who also believe in
Christ are getting "it" from both sides, as to whether one can
unschool and "be a Christian". Ironic. harsh! >>
I think that's the one thing that hasn't been said. Good point.
Unschoolers get grief from outside AND inside the homeschooling world. I
hadn't thought that Christian unschoolers have it from four directions, then.
That IS harsh!
Sandra
Kelly Lenhart
>Unschoolers get grief from outside AND inside the homeschooling world. Ithen.
>hadn't thought that Christian unschoolers have it from four directions,
>That IS harsh!Ah, the old bisexual deal--you aren't queer enough to be queer! -sigh- Us,
>Sandra
them, the other.
I hope I haven't made anyone feel like they AREN'T or SHOULDN'T or any of
that because of my questions. I'm curious how it works for you, not saying
it CAN'T work.
Kelly
(famous ex-dyke!)
Wife2Vegman
--- Kelly Lenhart <mina@...> wrote:
with you. Never felt dissed in any way.
It's true, though, as happyadvocate pointed out, that
Christian unschoolers get from the christian community
"you are sinning, you are too permissive, you need to
read these scriptures again because they really
say..." and then we get from the secular unschooling
community, "I don't think you can unschool if you hold
these beliefs".
Now try being a family that is christian, unschooler,
1/2 vegetarian and who follow the Feingold program for
kids with food additive allergies.
I long ago realized that I would never ever find a
"support group" in which this square peg fits, and
that it was ok. A support group of one, or a member
of many different ones, I've done it both ways. It's
all good.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
>Nope, not at all. It is fun to discuss this topic
> I hope I haven't made anyone feel like they AREN'T
> or SHOULDN'T or any of
> that because of my questions. I'm curious how it
> works for you, not saying
> it CAN'T work.
>
> Kelly
with you. Never felt dissed in any way.
It's true, though, as happyadvocate pointed out, that
Christian unschoolers get from the christian community
"you are sinning, you are too permissive, you need to
read these scriptures again because they really
say..." and then we get from the secular unschooling
community, "I don't think you can unschool if you hold
these beliefs".
Now try being a family that is christian, unschooler,
1/2 vegetarian and who follow the Feingold program for
kids with food additive allergies.
I long ago realized that I would never ever find a
"support group" in which this square peg fits, and
that it was ok. A support group of one, or a member
of many different ones, I've done it both ways. It's
all good.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
rachel_foodie
--- In [email protected], Wife2Vegman
<wifetovegman2002@y...> wrote:
It's like we are pariahs no matter where we go. No one in either camp
is ever really comfortable with us (or so it seems). So to one camp
they call into question our very faith, the other camp calls into
question our life philosophy. Ugh! (BTW, I am not saying this to
anyone who is truly curious. Just to anyone who would make snap
judgements about christian unschoolers.)
Rachel
<wifetovegman2002@y...> wrote:
> It's true, though, as happyadvocate pointed out, thatOh Susan!! (and Happy Advocate too) if that isn't exactly the truth!
> Christian unschoolers get from the christian community
> "you are sinning, you are too permissive, you need to
> read these scriptures again because they really
> say..." and then we get from the secular unschooling
> community, "I don't think you can unschool if you hold
> these beliefs".
It's like we are pariahs no matter where we go. No one in either camp
is ever really comfortable with us (or so it seems). So to one camp
they call into question our very faith, the other camp calls into
question our life philosophy. Ugh! (BTW, I am not saying this to
anyone who is truly curious. Just to anyone who would make snap
judgements about christian unschoolers.)
Rachel
happyadvocate
-- Kelly Lenhart <mina@m...> wrote:
also say that you express yourself well, so I did understand your
questions to *be* questions. After I hit "send" I thought I should
have added that reassurance. No prob here.
In fact, I enjoyed participating in the interchange. Questions help
me to think, to phrase my thoughts, and to limit my ramblings
(somewhat Ha!).
I have found other threads in the past on this list to seem very
harsh (IMHO) towards the professed Christians. I am hoping this gap
is narrowing or the people softening some. (I do not mean you,
Kelly, and I doubt by your current tone that you had anything to do
with that, so I am not directing this at you.)
Having been beaten (literally and verbally) in my own (former)
church, I self-diagnosed as PTSD and tend to get "gun-shy" if I feel
targeted, especially by more than one individual at a time. Which
was why I stayed a member here and said little or nothing for a long
time. It's real easy to get rid of me! I just set this aside and
figured I'd read archives if I needed something. But see, you
(Kelly) didn't scare me off ;-)
Back to the topic:
Unschooling gives us - my sons and I - the freedom to exit when
needed. There are so many positive reasons to unschool, towards our
gifts and interests. There are also many, many different injuries
and disabilities which give people reasons to move away from
something. An example would be my youngest, who was in a private
school and was assigned to write an autobiography. He began asking
me questions and learned about "the beating" and immediately decided -
stated clearly that - he did not want to write about his dad. He
told the teacher that he had been planning to write his
autobiography "when I am 32" and was not going to change that
decision now. (Somehow the sweatheart "got away with it" and I
pulled him out later when he was beaten at lunch.)
Attending The Evergreen State College (TESC), we wrote "self-
evaluations". The process was as educational as anything I have ever
done. I was able to resurrect my self-esteem from a complete and
total failure to do a planned project, by explaining that once inside
the research, I realized the field was already completely covered,
and there was no point in rewriting it. I don't think I mentioned
that that would have been really BORING! But I didn't have to,
because I had taken a different tangent at that point and written
something new, so my work was accepted for the credit. I had already
gone through this process because I was interested in my topic and I
have to laugh at myself for going on to the interesting topic, and
then later "worrying" about the credit! That, to me, is the gift of
unschooling. And a gift I can give to my children, to my students
when hired to help people, and to MYSELF. The gift of being able to
do something interesting!
I think the term "learning" has been hijacked by the institutions.
And I just realized that we keep playing into their hands by using it
from the view inside the school box. Kids aren't "learning" (!?)
Well, kids are always seeking to learn and so they are either
learning things we didn't plan to teach them, or they are bored
because they aren't given nourishment for their brains and personal
growth.
"Learning" in psychological terms is defined as a change in
behavior. I look at it from inside the learning person - looking out
at the world. If I (the student) change my behavior then I
have "learned" something. Sometimes I like the change in myself and
sometimes I get help to overcome a "lesson" that came from a negative
experience. Once I "know how to learn" I can self-regulate
my "lessons". If I don't like that I am angry from being abused, for
example, then I can research ways to calm down, forget it, or recycle
that energy, like helping others or writing. I exercise, therefore,
some conscious control over what I am learning.
The institutionalized term, "learning" looks from inside the adults
and committees out at the student. It compares behavior to their
stated goals, and if there *is* a change in behavior that wasn't on
the list, then it is "not learning". That, however, is inconsistent
with Psychologist's terms. (There is a movement amongst the
teaching profession for it to become a "science" <g> but I have never
heard it mentioned that this would require reconciliation of concepts
and terminology with other sciences.) Anyway, such measurements have
nothing to do with my life or yours, nor that of any given student.
And any learning, real though it may be, that wasn't on the
institutional list, doesn't "count". Except, in my experience, at
TESC. And then, my "Christian" faith was criticized and not
accepted, so I was once again marching to a different drummer. It
seems I always am!
Washington law allows a teacher to write an evaluation of a student
as an annual option to standardized testing. What I love about this
process is being able to find and record and encourage the
individual "learning" that was so important to the homeschool parent
and child but which may have been otherwise lost or "not counted", if
not queried on a test or forgotten due to stress.
On this list this week, tt has been fulfilling to be able to have an
intellectual discussion about what is necessarily (and shoudl be!) an
extremely emotional topic - freedom, personal growth, and parenting!
There are no roadmaps here.
As to defining: I asked about not "doing" that discussion. I love
discussing the examples and ideas and etc., but I won't be letting
any unschooler tell me what to think or believe, or who I "am" or
whether I can use a certain word or term, any more than I will let
the PS so dictate. There is a way of discussing, as Sandra said,
what is "not" unschooling, but then are we talking about achieving
freedom, or including moving towards freedom; and if the latter, for
a minute, an hour, a day, a year?
I like discussing the details, the research, comparisons, and
sharing. I detest legalism in any of its forms. Yes, we can ditch
schooling or ditch Christ and still be legalistic! It's like trading
off one addiction for another - a common human event - if we can not
see that our own lifelong institutionalization has made us seek to
impose structure on our efforts to be unstructured. Maybe the grown
children who have not been institutionalized will be able to
objectively compare their experiences with those of others
and "define" what we do (or do not do.)
On the topic of the CCU-List, there are no "experts" there to tell
the group members how they should think or believe. It's just
peachy, if you ask me. If I can develop that kind of friendships and
equality here I'd stay I suppose, if I can manage to do all this
reading!
For now, it's intellectually interesting ;-) (and not emotionally
painful)
Blessings
~Kit
> I hope I haven't made anyone feel like they AREN'TWifetoVegMan said:
> or SHOULDN'T or any of that because of my questions.
>I'm curious how it works for you, not saying
> it CAN'T work. Kelly
>Nope, not at all. It is fun to discuss this topic***Kelly, thanks for your concern. I agree with WifeToVegMan. I'd
>with you. Never felt dissed in any way.
also say that you express yourself well, so I did understand your
questions to *be* questions. After I hit "send" I thought I should
have added that reassurance. No prob here.
In fact, I enjoyed participating in the interchange. Questions help
me to think, to phrase my thoughts, and to limit my ramblings
(somewhat Ha!).
I have found other threads in the past on this list to seem very
harsh (IMHO) towards the professed Christians. I am hoping this gap
is narrowing or the people softening some. (I do not mean you,
Kelly, and I doubt by your current tone that you had anything to do
with that, so I am not directing this at you.)
Having been beaten (literally and verbally) in my own (former)
church, I self-diagnosed as PTSD and tend to get "gun-shy" if I feel
targeted, especially by more than one individual at a time. Which
was why I stayed a member here and said little or nothing for a long
time. It's real easy to get rid of me! I just set this aside and
figured I'd read archives if I needed something. But see, you
(Kelly) didn't scare me off ;-)
Back to the topic:
Unschooling gives us - my sons and I - the freedom to exit when
needed. There are so many positive reasons to unschool, towards our
gifts and interests. There are also many, many different injuries
and disabilities which give people reasons to move away from
something. An example would be my youngest, who was in a private
school and was assigned to write an autobiography. He began asking
me questions and learned about "the beating" and immediately decided -
stated clearly that - he did not want to write about his dad. He
told the teacher that he had been planning to write his
autobiography "when I am 32" and was not going to change that
decision now. (Somehow the sweatheart "got away with it" and I
pulled him out later when he was beaten at lunch.)
Attending The Evergreen State College (TESC), we wrote "self-
evaluations". The process was as educational as anything I have ever
done. I was able to resurrect my self-esteem from a complete and
total failure to do a planned project, by explaining that once inside
the research, I realized the field was already completely covered,
and there was no point in rewriting it. I don't think I mentioned
that that would have been really BORING! But I didn't have to,
because I had taken a different tangent at that point and written
something new, so my work was accepted for the credit. I had already
gone through this process because I was interested in my topic and I
have to laugh at myself for going on to the interesting topic, and
then later "worrying" about the credit! That, to me, is the gift of
unschooling. And a gift I can give to my children, to my students
when hired to help people, and to MYSELF. The gift of being able to
do something interesting!
I think the term "learning" has been hijacked by the institutions.
And I just realized that we keep playing into their hands by using it
from the view inside the school box. Kids aren't "learning" (!?)
Well, kids are always seeking to learn and so they are either
learning things we didn't plan to teach them, or they are bored
because they aren't given nourishment for their brains and personal
growth.
"Learning" in psychological terms is defined as a change in
behavior. I look at it from inside the learning person - looking out
at the world. If I (the student) change my behavior then I
have "learned" something. Sometimes I like the change in myself and
sometimes I get help to overcome a "lesson" that came from a negative
experience. Once I "know how to learn" I can self-regulate
my "lessons". If I don't like that I am angry from being abused, for
example, then I can research ways to calm down, forget it, or recycle
that energy, like helping others or writing. I exercise, therefore,
some conscious control over what I am learning.
The institutionalized term, "learning" looks from inside the adults
and committees out at the student. It compares behavior to their
stated goals, and if there *is* a change in behavior that wasn't on
the list, then it is "not learning". That, however, is inconsistent
with Psychologist's terms. (There is a movement amongst the
teaching profession for it to become a "science" <g> but I have never
heard it mentioned that this would require reconciliation of concepts
and terminology with other sciences.) Anyway, such measurements have
nothing to do with my life or yours, nor that of any given student.
And any learning, real though it may be, that wasn't on the
institutional list, doesn't "count". Except, in my experience, at
TESC. And then, my "Christian" faith was criticized and not
accepted, so I was once again marching to a different drummer. It
seems I always am!
Washington law allows a teacher to write an evaluation of a student
as an annual option to standardized testing. What I love about this
process is being able to find and record and encourage the
individual "learning" that was so important to the homeschool parent
and child but which may have been otherwise lost or "not counted", if
not queried on a test or forgotten due to stress.
On this list this week, tt has been fulfilling to be able to have an
intellectual discussion about what is necessarily (and shoudl be!) an
extremely emotional topic - freedom, personal growth, and parenting!
There are no roadmaps here.
As to defining: I asked about not "doing" that discussion. I love
discussing the examples and ideas and etc., but I won't be letting
any unschooler tell me what to think or believe, or who I "am" or
whether I can use a certain word or term, any more than I will let
the PS so dictate. There is a way of discussing, as Sandra said,
what is "not" unschooling, but then are we talking about achieving
freedom, or including moving towards freedom; and if the latter, for
a minute, an hour, a day, a year?
I like discussing the details, the research, comparisons, and
sharing. I detest legalism in any of its forms. Yes, we can ditch
schooling or ditch Christ and still be legalistic! It's like trading
off one addiction for another - a common human event - if we can not
see that our own lifelong institutionalization has made us seek to
impose structure on our efforts to be unstructured. Maybe the grown
children who have not been institutionalized will be able to
objectively compare their experiences with those of others
and "define" what we do (or do not do.)
On the topic of the CCU-List, there are no "experts" there to tell
the group members how they should think or believe. It's just
peachy, if you ask me. If I can develop that kind of friendships and
equality here I'd stay I suppose, if I can manage to do all this
reading!
For now, it's intellectually interesting ;-) (and not emotionally
painful)
Blessings
~Kit
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/21/2004 8:35:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Ah, the old bisexual deal--you aren't queer enough to be queer! -sigh- Us,
them, the other.
I hope I haven't made anyone feel like they AREN'T or SHOULDN'T or any of
that because of my questions. I'm curious how it works for you, not saying
it CAN'T work.
Kelly
(famous ex-dyke!)
************************
Kelly! I didn't know you used to be Joann Loulan! (Or were you Julie Cypher
or Anne Heche?)
Kathryn, infamous dyke
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
Ah, the old bisexual deal--you aren't queer enough to be queer! -sigh- Us,
them, the other.
I hope I haven't made anyone feel like they AREN'T or SHOULDN'T or any of
that because of my questions. I'm curious how it works for you, not saying
it CAN'T work.
Kelly
(famous ex-dyke!)
************************
Kelly! I didn't know you used to be Joann Loulan! (Or were you Julie Cypher
or Anne Heche?)
Kathryn, infamous dyke
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tjreynoso
> Now try being a family that is christian, unschooler,I'm not vegetarian and I don't follow Feingold, but in my case add
> 1/2 vegetarian and who follow the Feingold program for
> kids with food additive allergies.
>
> I long ago realized that I would never ever find a
> "support group" in which this square peg fits, and
> that it was ok. A support group of one, or a member
> of many different ones, I've done it both ways. It's
> all good.
>
to that working full time. I get the neglect part thrown at me from
both homeschoolers and unschoolers! I'm not looking for a support
group that'll include everything but it sure would be nice to find
a "real, live person" to talk to once in a while. Not to say that
you guys aren't great!!! LOL. My schedule makes it almost
impossible to join one of the traditional groups inthe area.
My son mentioned yesterday maybe going to school next year. I
really think that if he had other homeschoolers/unschoolers to play
with on a regular basis, he wouldn't feel like he was missing out on
something at school. Sigh. I try not to let it get to me when he
says these things. He's only just started getting used to
unschooling but it does make me question myself. I want to do what
is best for him, but he doesn't really know what he wants. He is
only seven. He likes the novelty of school, but he hates homework
and tests. He likes the freedom he has at home, but misses being
around other kids. At the same time he was going to the school for
music and art and PE until recently and told me he doesn't want to
go anymore because the kids make too much noise and they don't
really get to do much. So I said that's fine and he could choose if
he wanted to go or not.
So, if anybody's in the Tampa Bay area give a shout out!!
Tanya
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/21/04 8:54:57 PM, kittiecatte@... writes:
<< but I won't be letting
any unschooler tell me what to think or believe, or who I "am" or
whether I can use a certain word or term, any more than I will let
the PS so dictate >>
But that's internal to you and shouldn't affect what you want happening
around you.
If someone tells you what to believe (meaning what they think you should
believe) they have no way to enforce that, or even to determine if your thinking
did change.
So saying you don't want that to happen is just kind of talking to yourself
(out loud to 1400 readers <g>).
<<There is a way of discussing, as Sandra said,
what is "not" unschooling, but then are we talking about achieving
freedom, or including moving towards freedom; and if the latter, for
a minute, an hour, a day, a year? >>
Some people spend a minute there and get scared and run back to the fold.
Some see the freedom only in academic terms. Some let it ooze into every
pore of their being.
It doesn't matter. We're talking about talking about it, and what people
take away from the discussions is beyond the power of any committee or democratic
governing body or gestapo to control.
We're talking about ideas.
Take 'em or leave 'em. Think them or think about something else.
Sandra
<< but I won't be letting
any unschooler tell me what to think or believe, or who I "am" or
whether I can use a certain word or term, any more than I will let
the PS so dictate >>
But that's internal to you and shouldn't affect what you want happening
around you.
If someone tells you what to believe (meaning what they think you should
believe) they have no way to enforce that, or even to determine if your thinking
did change.
So saying you don't want that to happen is just kind of talking to yourself
(out loud to 1400 readers <g>).
<<There is a way of discussing, as Sandra said,
what is "not" unschooling, but then are we talking about achieving
freedom, or including moving towards freedom; and if the latter, for
a minute, an hour, a day, a year? >>
Some people spend a minute there and get scared and run back to the fold.
Some see the freedom only in academic terms. Some let it ooze into every
pore of their being.
It doesn't matter. We're talking about talking about it, and what people
take away from the discussions is beyond the power of any committee or democratic
governing body or gestapo to control.
We're talking about ideas.
Take 'em or leave 'em. Think them or think about something else.
Sandra