happyadvocate

Hi Kelly,

--- Kelly Lenhart <mina@m...> wrote:
> more I think about it, the more I find Christianity to be
>theologically apart from unschooling. And so
>I wonder how more conservative, fundamental
> Christians cope with these issues.

EHO has an editorial online about this, too:

http://www.eho.org/unschool_editorial.htm
Unschooling Against God's Will?

Elissa Wahl, co-author of the book _Christian_Unschooling_ explains
it as being similar to how one relates to a toddler: playing,
challenging, exploring, explaining. *RELATING* :-) That's exactly
the point of Jesus: the personal relationship.

I didn't unschool my sons, actually they unschooled me. I didn't
follow a theory to freedom, I followed my freedom to eventually find
that the life I had contrived had a name and a theory and literature,
and people on the internet.

I loved my kids too much to continue to abuse them for the sake
of "learning". I had so many things going on at once! But I stepped
back and re-evaluated my faith from a logical perspective. I
figured "those guys" following Jesus were at the bare minimum,
reporters and where they agreed on what HE said, heck -- I could rely
on that in the midst of all the other confusion and pressure.

It totally helped to view my God as alive and relating to and
actively parenting me. In my trust of myself as a good mom, I found
an analogy I could grab ahold of: my Heavenly father picking me up
gently and giving me a hug when I'd fall from trying to run when I
had not yet learned to walk!

I don't like legalism, either, and it troubles me sometimes when
other people (frequently on the internet, sadly :-( ) seem to be
making "unschooling" into another set of rules or a club that I may
or may not belong to. To me, the lifestyle came first, and the name
is only a way to try to reach out to others to give and receive
support. It's a research lifstyle to me, just as is my belief that
even tho there is one "set of truth" in mathematical terms, I am
certainly not the one to say that any other person's personal
equation can't be solved within the set of what is real and good and
true.

~Kit

Kelly Lenhart

>It totally helped to view my God as alive and relating to and
>actively parenting me. In my trust of myself as a good mom, I found
>an analogy I could grab ahold of: my Heavenly father picking me up
>gently and giving me a hug when I'd fall from trying to run when I
>had not yet learned to walk!

Fair enough.

But what do you do with the idea of original sin. As I said in another
post, for me that's the sticking point. I don't believe in it and I don't
see it making for a good parent child relationship, to follow your analogy.
And one I use often, as well.

> It's a research lifstyle to me, just as is my belief that
>even tho there is one "set of truth" in mathematical terms, I am
>certainly not the one to say that any other person's personal
>equation can't be solved within the set of what is real and good and
>true.

Then people who follow a different faith, so long as they are "good" won't
go to Hell?

That's another problem I have with Christianity. If this God gave me free
will and set me on a path and I ultimately chose not to follow him, well,
then....

Kelly

liza sabater

On Monday, January 19, 2004, at 11:41 PM, Kelly Lenhart wrote:

> That's another problem I have with Christianity. If this God gave me
> free
> will and set me on a path and I ultimately chose not to follow him,
> well,
> then....

Have you read Elaine Pagels "The Agnostic Gospels" or her "Adam, Even
and the Serpent"? You'll love them because they tackle that part of the
christian myth. Really good books to read.

The Gnostic Gospels
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679724532/typepadistasd-20/002-
5696622-1558435?creative=125581&camp=2321&link_code=as1

Adam, Eve and the Serpent
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679722327/typepadistasd-20/002-
5696622-1558435?dev-t=mason-wrapper%26camp=2025%26link_code=xm2

and looking at the Amazon list, I totally forgot about her other book,

The Origin of Satan
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679731180/typepadistasd-20/002-
5696622-1558435?dev-t=mason-wrapper%26camp=2025%26link_code=xm2

I have not read her book about Matthew (it's new) but now that I see
it, I will (isn't it his the arresting version of the flight from Egypt
or is that Luke?, can't remember now).


l i z a
=========================
www.culturekitchen.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelly Lenhart

>Have you read Elaine Pagels "The Agnostic Gospels" or her "Adam, Even
>and the Serpent"? You'll love them because they tackle that part of the
>christian myth. Really good books to read.

Cool, off to the library to find them.

Kelly

rachel_foodie

Hey guys,

I think this topic is really fun. I have practiced my faith (I hate
the word religion too)in Christ for almost 20 years.

The deal is this with those of us that are "christian unschoolers"
and it's like Kit said, we were living this lifestyle and found out
later that someone had given it a name, attachment
parenting/unschooling. Now, for the "other than christian"
unschoolers out there, I don't think it is fair for you to say that
because we christians may have christian moral absolutes we live by
that we can't be unschoolers. Are we actually going to get into who
can and can't be an unschooler?
Also, as a person with a passion for christian theology/history,
there many things that christians in mainstream north american
society do that are more cultural, than say,biblical. There wasn't
compulsory schooling in biblical times, I am not saying there were
not modes of formal learning, but that is different than what we have
now. Actually, in Deutoronomy (Old Testament book) there is a verse
that goes something like "you will teach your child when he wakes in
the morning, while working in the field and walking in the road..."
I always loved that for unschooling because I thought that is how
unschooling parents teach" if you will,just by living day to day with
our kids, in the typical moments of a given day.

I joke with more traditional homeschool type christian friends that
there isn't anything in the Bible that says, "Thou shalt sitteth thy
children down and makest them do school work from 9 to 3pm." C'mon!
Most of all Jesus,himself, was unschooled, and that is more than good
enough for me. :-)And like John Taylor Gatto said( in a great lecture
on how Christ made disciples) paraphrasing here: Christ didn't coerce
people to follow him. He asked everyone to follow him, but not
everyone did or has. He gave everyone a choice, theirs free to make.
Those that wanted to follow him and hear his teachings stayed. Same
thing with my kids. I don't coerce,at least not with Ben and Autumn,
and thankfully not with Andrew right now (I got my husband to see the
light another post another time)if they want to know something I help
them, if they want to figure it out themselves fine.

Now, I will say, that because my husband and I are catholic, we are
raising our children in the faith tradition. It does not mean that
our kids can't question it. It also does not mean that they may not
leave it someday. However, whether people here agree or not (and hey
they are my kids not yours)as their parents we want to give our kids
a faith to cling to as kids. They enjoy going to Mass, enjoy CCD once
a week (and all the fun social outings there too). As a family we
enjoy being in a wonderful faith community. No matter what one
believes those are nice things to give a child. However, I understand
and respect those who let their kids choose whatever they want. I
just would hope that people like me got the same respect in return.

Peace out,this is the coolest list ever. I think everyone here is
just great!
Rachel

Fetteroll

on 1/20/04 1:03 AM, rachel_foodie at rachel_foodie@... wrote:

> Are we actually going to get into who
> can and can't be an unschooler?

Not in a pronouncement way.

But it's very useful to discuss the types of ideas and principles that can
hold people back from unschooling. Control is one of those ideas. "There is
only one right way" is another one of those ideas. Limiting chld to the rich
choices is anther one.

No one needs to be Christian to have those ideas. But fundamentalist
Christianity contains many ideas that make unschooling more difficult.

> as their parents we want to give our kids
> a faith to cling to as kids.

You're not a fundamentalist Christian, though! And that's where this thread
began. The choice for them isn't Christian or not. They *know* the choice is
ever lasting life or ever lasting hell. That knowledge makes it pretty hard
not to limit a child's path to the only right path.

Joyce