[email protected]

In a message dated 1/19/2004 4:07:40 PM Central Standard Time,
tjreynoso@... writes:


> Maybe, the view of Christianity as
> being harsh and all about the "don'ts" is what contributes to the
> misconception that a Christian can't unschool. I haven't had that
> type of experience with Christianity

Nor have I, I know it exists but not at our house.
Laura


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[email protected]

In a message dated 1/19/04 11:33:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, mina@...
writes:

> I just don't see how you can have this faith that they don't need "fixing"
> (and I agree!) and reconcile it with original sin.
>
>

Not trying to speak for the original poster as I think we have differing
views, but, there are some of us "Christians" out here that don't take the Bible
literally. I put the word "Christians" in quotes because I do realize that
there are Christians that would not even consider us Christians. LOL

I do not believe that evolution and creation are mutually exclusive, I do not
believe in the virgin birth, do not believe in original sin, and there are
other things. I believe the Bible was written by man and take that into
consideration when reading it. Etc.

Sort of get what I am getting at. That is how unschooling can work here.

Just my thoughts,
Pam G


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tjreynoso

--- In [email protected], Genant2@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/19/04 11:33:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mina@m...
> writes:
>
> > I just don't see how you can have this faith that they don't
need "fixing"
> > (and I agree!) and reconcile it with original sin.
> >
> >
>
> Not trying to speak for the original poster as I think we have
differing views,

I am the original poster. I do have that faith. It's simple. I am
not going to explain it because that doesn't contribute to
unschooling (the topic of the list).

arcarpenter2003

--- In [email protected], Genant2@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/19/04 11:33:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mina@m...
> I just don't see how you can have this faith that they don't
need "fixing"
> (and I agree!) and reconcile it with original sin.

I'll post a response to this just in case it helps others who deal
with Christian family members and friends who are trying to
understand unschooling. When Christians ask me about original sin
and how can we "deal" with this is children, I tell them that I saw
Desmond Tutu speak, and he reminded the audience that though we are
capable of sin, what we often forget is that we are made in the image
of God, and we are also capable of great good, amazing good. I tell
them that bringing out that good, in all its different forms, may be
possible only from creating an environment of free choices and
respect.

This is more a beginning to a conversation than an end, but it can
help put the discussion on the right foot.

Peace,
Amy

lifelearners6

>
> mina@m...
> > I just don't see how you can have this faith that they don't
> need "fixing"
> > (and I agree!) and reconcile it with original sin.
>
> I'll post a response to this just in case it helps others who deal
> with Christian family members and friends who are trying to
> understand unschooling. When Christians ask me about original sin
> and how can we "deal" with this is children, I tell them that I saw
> Desmond Tutu speak, and he reminded the audience that though we are
> capable of sin, what we often forget is that we are made in the
image
> of God, and we are also capable of great good, amazing good. . . .>
Peace,
> Amy

Another response to Christian family members concerned about
unschooling in light of original sin is to remind them that sin
taints not just children, but everything: school systems,
governments, parents, even concerned relatives. And Amy's answer is
lovely; we are made in God's image, and what's more, you can say that
Christians should know that Christ is the answer to sin; humanly
speaking, our children can't be "fixed."

--Lynn Otto

Kelly Lenhart

>Not trying to speak for the original poster as I think we have differing
>views, but, there are some of us "Christians" out here that don't take the
Bible
>literally.

I was really asking those who have a more strict or literal interpretation
of the Bible. Someone like MamaBeth who would talk about Satan's plans.
Not to say they can't unschool or anything like, but just to understand.

Kelly

Kelly Lenhart

>When Christians ask me about original sin
>and how can we "deal" with this is children, I tell them that I saw
>Desmond Tutu speak, and he reminded the audience that though we are
>capable of sin, what we often forget is that we are made in the image
>of God, and we are also capable of great good, amazing good. I tell
>them that bringing out that good, in all its different forms, may be
>possible only from creating an environment of free choices and
>respect.


So basically you are saying that while you acknowledge the capacity for sin
and the necessity for salvation, you chose to focus more on living
positively in this life, and unschooling is a huge part of that?

If so, that makes sense to me.

Thanks,
Kelly

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/21/2004 12:07:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, mina@...
writes:
I was really asking those who have a more strict or literal interpretation
of the Bible. Someone like MamaBeth who would talk about Satan's plans.
Not to say they can't unschool or anything like, but just to understand.

Kelly



I will admit to a fairly "strict" interpretation of the Bible as it pertains
to my faith. I interpret it clearly to say that it is by FAITH not works that
one is saved. I can do NOTHING to make my children be "saved". I also read
that my God is a loving God and wants the best for his "children". I want the
best for my children. I read that my God gives us freewill to choose. I
give my children freewill to choose.

I do read the part in Revelations about the last days and the coming of
Christ, and I do believe it. I also believe in a literal heaven and hell. I also
have faith that my children will find their way to a loving God on many paths,
or maybe in the solitude of their hearts.

I know it is not my "job" to give my children eternal salvation, that is only
through their own personal experience and their own relationship with God
that it can be found.

It's a very parallel walk with unschooling in my mind. I model behaviours
for my children, that is what they see/hear/know. They have freewill to make
their own choice about EVERYTHING in life. Does it mean I will be THRILLED with
every decision they make? Not at all, but it also do not mean I will cast
them out of my life for things I personally do not believe or agree with.

Really aren't both things we are discussing, religion and unschooling about
FAITH? Faith that our children will learn what they need to learn, when they
need to learn it. Faith that our children will find the path to journey
through life that is right for THEM.

I see it as very similar, not at all opposites, one seems to naturally
compliment the other, in my life anyway.

A lot of what is "thought" to be in the name of one religion or another is
just someone's fanatical skewed views of something.

Take these terrorist acts in the name of a jihad. True believers and
worshippers of Muslim will say they are against violence and these acts are wrong.
Yet they are very visible and very public so it gives the impression of that
religion being like we see it on our T.V's which isn't necessarily a true
representation of the Muslim religion.


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arcarpenter2003

--- In [email protected], "Kelly Lenhart"
<mina@m...> wrote:
> So basically you are saying that while you acknowledge the capacity
for sin
> and the necessity for salvation, you chose to focus more on living
> positively in this life, and unschooling is a huge part of that?
>
> If so, that makes sense to me.

That's pretty much it -- except to be completely honest, I would say
I acknowledge *their belief* in the capacity for sin and the
necessity for salvation. Personally, I'm less and less convinced of
these things myself.

I'm glad if it helped.

Peace,
Amy

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/19/2004 11:33:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, mina@...
writes:
I just don't see how you can have this faith that they don't need "fixing"
(and I agree!) and reconcile it with original sin.

I'm not trying to be challenging, I'm honestly asking about something I
don't understand.

Kelly





My very own personal experience with "original sin" is just that none among
us are perfect. No one is without the capacity to sin in this world. No one
can get to the Father except through the Son and a personal relationship with
God. No amount of works or "being good" will get you there.

Also no amount of any sin will keep you out once you've been saved, but other
religions reject that idea too of course.

Isn't it just like no amount of cajoling or forcing or any amount of sitting
in a classroom can guarantee real learning? Everyone (almost) has the
capacity to learn, but it can't be forced and result in a joy filled life long
learning environment. It needs to be on a person's own personal terms, just like
with unschooling.

Is the real question, if you feel your child must be SAVED to go to Heaven is
true then how can you NOT be constantly concerned about their eternity at the
expense of allowing them the freedom of living and learning?

I believe that salvation is essential to seeing Heaven. I also have faith
that my children will find this on their own, in their own way, not necessarily
MY way. Just as I have faith they will learn what they need to learn in life,
when they need to or are ready to learn it.

I hope that is a response to what you were asking.

glena


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