Unschooling thoughts
[email protected]
I was reading something recently and I can't remember if it was on this list
or in an article but it is something I have heard people say and I wanted to
ask about it. I have talked to people concerning unschooling and they have
replied "Oh yeah, we tried that and relaxed hsing and..." Now these people had
only been hsing about a year so I really had to wonder, I mean I just don't think
you can get the concept that fast, especially when you also say you have
tried several other styles in a short period of time too.
Maybe I am just slower than most but it took me a long time to get to this
point. Do you think people can get the concept overnight? I think you can start
out not using any curriculum but to me that is not the whole of it, it reaches
far deeper IMHO than just not using a math book. (And of course that is
optional to the person wanting to learn)
I even knew I was on the path, I knew we were headed this way and even last
year I knew I wasn't totally here. So much of our lifestyle was, we were living
very much as unschoolers in most of our life but I had not made the switch in
my head.
It is so weird that I cannot pinpoint when I did make that shift, it was an
ever so subtle shift but oh so necessary. I even remember knowing I wanted to
make the switch, I knew I was ready, I even worked at pushing through not
knowing exactly what I was pushing through but it worked or something worked
because I know I changed, my perspective changed. I can't describe how thrilling it
is, also a relief.
Did anyone else share a similar experience? Does this sound wacky? LOL
Laura - Ohio
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
or in an article but it is something I have heard people say and I wanted to
ask about it. I have talked to people concerning unschooling and they have
replied "Oh yeah, we tried that and relaxed hsing and..." Now these people had
only been hsing about a year so I really had to wonder, I mean I just don't think
you can get the concept that fast, especially when you also say you have
tried several other styles in a short period of time too.
Maybe I am just slower than most but it took me a long time to get to this
point. Do you think people can get the concept overnight? I think you can start
out not using any curriculum but to me that is not the whole of it, it reaches
far deeper IMHO than just not using a math book. (And of course that is
optional to the person wanting to learn)
I even knew I was on the path, I knew we were headed this way and even last
year I knew I wasn't totally here. So much of our lifestyle was, we were living
very much as unschoolers in most of our life but I had not made the switch in
my head.
It is so weird that I cannot pinpoint when I did make that shift, it was an
ever so subtle shift but oh so necessary. I even remember knowing I wanted to
make the switch, I knew I was ready, I even worked at pushing through not
knowing exactly what I was pushing through but it worked or something worked
because I know I changed, my perspective changed. I can't describe how thrilling it
is, also a relief.
Did anyone else share a similar experience? Does this sound wacky? LOL
Laura - Ohio
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Fetteroll
on 1/19/04 11:21 AM, BonKnit@... at BonKnit@... wrote:
it doesn't work. They'll be the ones who always knew school style learning
was wrong and learning from life was the right way and just didn't know
there was a name for it :-)
I think the ones who try it and say it doesn't work have different goals
than unschoolers do. They want the goal of a homeschooling style to take the
child to a specific destination: preparation for college or a job. So they
want unschooling to be kids choosing some kind of structured learning on
their own by following their interests.
Doesn't work that way! So of course it doesn't work for them. It's not the
right tool for the job they want done.
Joyce
> Maybe I am just slower than most but it took me a long time to get to thisSome people can. But they're not the ones who will try unschooling and say
> point. Do you think people can get the concept overnight?
it doesn't work. They'll be the ones who always knew school style learning
was wrong and learning from life was the right way and just didn't know
there was a name for it :-)
I think the ones who try it and say it doesn't work have different goals
than unschoolers do. They want the goal of a homeschooling style to take the
child to a specific destination: preparation for college or a job. So they
want unschooling to be kids choosing some kind of structured learning on
their own by following their interests.
Doesn't work that way! So of course it doesn't work for them. It's not the
right tool for the job they want done.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/19/2004 10:39:53 AM Central Standard Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
> So theyAh yes! I see that!
> want unschooling to be kids choosing some kind of structured learning on
> their own by following their interests.
>
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/19/2004 10:39:53 AM Central Standard Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
result.
Is there harm in being able to "see" the learning? While I don't say anything
and I don't base what they do on being educational I am still often able to
see "the learning" so to speak in much of life.
Laura
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fetteroll@... writes:
> So theySo they are still very outcome based, every activity needs to have an end
> want unschooling to be kids choosing some kind of structured learning on
> their own by following their interests.
>
result.
Is there harm in being able to "see" the learning? While I don't say anything
and I don't base what they do on being educational I am still often able to
see "the learning" so to speak in much of life.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/19/2004 10:07:05 AM Mountain Standard Time,
BonKnit@... writes:
-=-Is there harm in being able to "see" the learning? -=-
====
There's harm in NOT being able to see it, and there's even more harm in not
"seeing learning" until it looks like school-style busywork.
And I think there's harm in telling children "NOW you're learning!" or "OH
GOOD! That's science!" instead of being with them where they are in the
moment.
Sandra
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BonKnit@... writes:
-=-Is there harm in being able to "see" the learning? -=-
====
There's harm in NOT being able to see it, and there's even more harm in not
"seeing learning" until it looks like school-style busywork.
And I think there's harm in telling children "NOW you're learning!" or "OH
GOOD! That's science!" instead of being with them where they are in the
moment.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Danielle Conger
Laura wrote:
Maybe I am just slower than most but it took me a long time to get to this
point. Do you think people can get the concept overnight? I think you can start
out not using any curriculum but to me that is not the whole of it, it reaches
far deeper IMHO than just not using a math book. (And of course that is
optional to the person wanting to learn)
======================================================
I think unschooling has come pretty quickly and naturally for me because my kids are so young and it has grown out of my attachment parenting philosophy. We never really went down the school road, so there wasn't a whole lot to let go of before we got it, you know.
That's not to say that we did it all automatically and all at once. I'm still learning a lot from this list and seeing the ways I can let go in other areas and allow that freedom and joy to spill over into everything that we do as a family. Dh is getting it, too, maybe more quickly than most and slower than some, but he's working on it in his own way. He's always willing to discuss issues, and even when he's being pretty traditional-minded, he usually sees my point after a little while. <eg> But both of us have practiced attachment parenting, co-sleeping and have always involved the children in our lives. When I used to teach college courses, dh took the kids into his lab, carried them in the front carrier, incorporating them into his life. That certainly helps him make the leap as well.
--danielle
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Maybe I am just slower than most but it took me a long time to get to this
point. Do you think people can get the concept overnight? I think you can start
out not using any curriculum but to me that is not the whole of it, it reaches
far deeper IMHO than just not using a math book. (And of course that is
optional to the person wanting to learn)
======================================================
I think unschooling has come pretty quickly and naturally for me because my kids are so young and it has grown out of my attachment parenting philosophy. We never really went down the school road, so there wasn't a whole lot to let go of before we got it, you know.
That's not to say that we did it all automatically and all at once. I'm still learning a lot from this list and seeing the ways I can let go in other areas and allow that freedom and joy to spill over into everything that we do as a family. Dh is getting it, too, maybe more quickly than most and slower than some, but he's working on it in his own way. He's always willing to discuss issues, and even when he's being pretty traditional-minded, he usually sees my point after a little while. <eg> But both of us have practiced attachment parenting, co-sleeping and have always involved the children in our lives. When I used to teach college courses, dh took the kids into his lab, carried them in the front carrier, incorporating them into his life. That certainly helps him make the leap as well.
--danielle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/19/2004 9:25:34 AM Mountain Standard Time,
BonKnit@... writes:
-=-I have talked to people concerning unschooling and they have
replied "Oh yeah, we tried that and relaxed hsing and..." Now these people
had
only been hsing about a year so I really had to wonder, I mean I just don't
think
you can get the concept that fast-=-
I think someone can move straight to unschooling and have it work and not
turn back.
I think if someone claims to have tried unschooling but they saw that it
didn't work, they didn't really get it at all or didn't give it time to work, and
if the've tried two things in a year's time and are moving toward more
structure, they might be candidates for ritalin!
Some people are sold right away, but why would a really-sold person switch?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BonKnit@... writes:
-=-I have talked to people concerning unschooling and they have
replied "Oh yeah, we tried that and relaxed hsing and..." Now these people
had
only been hsing about a year so I really had to wonder, I mean I just don't
think
you can get the concept that fast-=-
I think someone can move straight to unschooling and have it work and not
turn back.
I think if someone claims to have tried unschooling but they saw that it
didn't work, they didn't really get it at all or didn't give it time to work, and
if the've tried two things in a year's time and are moving toward more
structure, they might be candidates for ritalin!
Some people are sold right away, but why would a really-sold person switch?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/19/2004 12:13:04 PM Central Standard Time,
danielle.conger@... writes:
about it or had a name for it. We have always stayed home with our kids with
an occasional night out together but mostly we were always home, of course it
helped that we were too poor to go anywhere, lol. The kids were also always
welcome in our bed and came they did. The youngest will still come in now and
then and on the rare occasion one of us is gone overnight he likes to take our
place. It was just never an issue though I know plenty of people who would have
dissaproved.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
danielle.conger@... writes:
> But both of us have practiced attachment parenting, co-sleeping and haveI look back and realize we did a version of all this even if we never talked
> always involved the children in our lives.
about it or had a name for it. We have always stayed home with our kids with
an occasional night out together but mostly we were always home, of course it
helped that we were too poor to go anywhere, lol. The kids were also always
welcome in our bed and came they did. The youngest will still come in now and
then and on the rare occasion one of us is gone overnight he likes to take our
place. It was just never an issue though I know plenty of people who would have
dissaproved.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lyle W.
For me, the switch started to happen when I had to completely take over the 'schooling duties' for my oldest son, ie, helping him with homework, going to teachers meetings, staffings, etc. That was when I began to realize what a joke school really was. I had always known that the system had a LOT of bugs in it, but we still went through the motions and sent the kids to school because that's what responsible parents are 'supposed' to do.
When I started going to Zack's staffings at school, the whole ridiculous notion of school slapped me square in the face, and I stepped back and was finally able to really see what was going on. That's when I knew there had to be a better way. I had no idea what it was, but ANYTHING was going to be better than what was happening to Zack at that school.
I suppose that's why it was easier for me to make the transition from school to unschooling than some other people I've met or read about. I KNOW, first hand, that school doesn't work. My son is proof. By the time I pulled him out of school, our staff meetings had sunk to new lows, and one teacher flat out LIED to me! I had proof of her lie right in my hand, and she still wouldn't admit it. It was time to go. Our last staffing was nothing more than a screaming match, and it was the last time we ever set foot inside the building. Then we discovered unschooling, and our lives were forever changed. It still wasn't an 'easy' transition, but our experience with school definitely helped me along.
:)
Lyle
***Always remember, Lead By Example***
--
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When I started going to Zack's staffings at school, the whole ridiculous notion of school slapped me square in the face, and I stepped back and was finally able to really see what was going on. That's when I knew there had to be a better way. I had no idea what it was, but ANYTHING was going to be better than what was happening to Zack at that school.
I suppose that's why it was easier for me to make the transition from school to unschooling than some other people I've met or read about. I KNOW, first hand, that school doesn't work. My son is proof. By the time I pulled him out of school, our staff meetings had sunk to new lows, and one teacher flat out LIED to me! I had proof of her lie right in my hand, and she still wouldn't admit it. It was time to go. Our last staffing was nothing more than a screaming match, and it was the last time we ever set foot inside the building. Then we discovered unschooling, and our lives were forever changed. It still wasn't an 'easy' transition, but our experience with school definitely helped me along.
:)
Lyle
***Always remember, Lead By Example***
--
___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/19/2004 12:36:54 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
Laura
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SandraDodd@... writes:
> Some people are sold right away, but why would a really-sold person switch?Right, there is no way to go back, you can unchange.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Unschooling thoughts
**There's harm in NOT being able to see it, and there's even more harm in not
"seeing learning" until it looks like school-style busywork.
And I think there's harm in telling children "NOW you're learning!" or "OH
GOOD! That's science!" instead of being with them where they are in the
moment.**
*************************
I think this is huge! In understanding what unschooling is and (even to go as far as saying) to unschool successfully.
I know that when we started unschooling I was still looking for the learning in the activities they were doing. And I was also hoping they would go onto other, more academic looking activities. When they would I would post about those times! <g> Which is probably fine, but I wasn't valuing the other stuff as just as good. Which it is.
When I was able to let that go, when I was able to just live with them peacefully and not try and see the learning,,,,,,,,WOW!
It was a huge jump in my unschooling learning curve. <g> (some schooly lingo)
When my son is playing video games, I don't sit there thinking, "when is he going to design one, when is he going to ask how they are made?" I've stopped being learning biased! <g> We can live joyfully.
If he does do that some day, fine, if he doesn't, that's fine too. He will find what fits for him.
Kelli~
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Kelli Traaseth
----- Original Message -----
From: BonKnit@...
**Did anyone else share a similar experience? Does this sound wacky? LOL**
Nope, not at all! <g>
I think this was my experience too and what I was referring to in my other post on this subject. Sorry, I'm out of order in my responses. :)
**It is so weird that I cannot pinpoint when I did make that shift, it was an
ever so subtle shift but oh so necessary. I even remember knowing I wanted to
make the switch, I knew I was ready, I even worked at pushing through not
knowing exactly what I was pushing through but it worked or something worked
because I know I changed, my perspective changed. I can't describe how thrilling it
is, also a relief.**
Yep, this is what I meant and how I felt too.
Laura, I've enjoyed your posts. Glad you're here.
Kelli~
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Dawn Adams
Sandra writes:
However, the more I learn the more I realize I need to learn and the more I have to strip away. Between my childhood and parenthood I accumulated a lot of crap ideas about parenting and my parents weren't unschoolers by any stretch so there's crap I learned there to. But they did lay that foundation more then most I think.
All in all, I have never been so content and satisfied and open to the world in my adult life as I am now. Thank God for unschooling.
Dawn (in NS)
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>I think someone can move straight to unschooling and have it work and notThis is me. Our school -at -home phase lasted for 2 days. I think though, I'd been prepared. Outside of school my parents always had resources availible and made an environment where learning was exciting. When the opportunity came to drive across Canada and work out west for 6 months we were pulled with what seemed to be very little thought...Two years in a row. When I discovered unschooling it was like someone dropped me in the Price is Right 'Plinko" game where I dropped right to the best spot.
>turn back.
>
However, the more I learn the more I realize I need to learn and the more I have to strip away. Between my childhood and parenthood I accumulated a lot of crap ideas about parenting and my parents weren't unschoolers by any stretch so there's crap I learned there to. But they did lay that foundation more then most I think.
All in all, I have never been so content and satisfied and open to the world in my adult life as I am now. Thank God for unschooling.
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Today my son 12 picked up a First Aid flip book with questions and answers.
He was reading it and began to ask me the questions to see if Id get the same
answers as he. He went through half the book while we made our first Chili.
The first aid books must have come from some class some where because I had
about 7 of them and the kids have been doodling in them for the past year. (We
grab free books at our local free-be barn. They say take what you want so we
just grab boxes and go through them.) They are like notebooks but with type on
them. The past several weeks I have been tossing them one by one as they
seemed less used and in the way. Dustin picked this one up off the counter and
began to read it to himself then to me.
We had fun deciphering the words as some of them seemed a bit out dated. We
discussed some older terms the are not used as often now.
It was a nice end to an irritating am. A friend called and said she was not
HSing next year and I felt a bit beat over the head... or rather beating my
head against the wall this am.
The Chili turned out great! He ate 5 bowls of it today.
I rambled a bit I know. My mind has been from stress on the phone to my 3
kids today. I have decided I will no longer be taking that call in the am but
rather making that time to be available for my family.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
He was reading it and began to ask me the questions to see if Id get the same
answers as he. He went through half the book while we made our first Chili.
The first aid books must have come from some class some where because I had
about 7 of them and the kids have been doodling in them for the past year. (We
grab free books at our local free-be barn. They say take what you want so we
just grab boxes and go through them.) They are like notebooks but with type on
them. The past several weeks I have been tossing them one by one as they
seemed less used and in the way. Dustin picked this one up off the counter and
began to read it to himself then to me.
We had fun deciphering the words as some of them seemed a bit out dated. We
discussed some older terms the are not used as often now.
It was a nice end to an irritating am. A friend called and said she was not
HSing next year and I felt a bit beat over the head... or rather beating my
head against the wall this am.
The Chili turned out great! He ate 5 bowls of it today.
I rambled a bit I know. My mind has been from stress on the phone to my 3
kids today. I have decided I will no longer be taking that call in the am but
rather making that time to be available for my family.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/19/2004 1:29:36 PM Central Standard Time,
unschoolingdad@... writes:
was not totally supportive. His journey was similar to yours because I turned
the dealing with the school job over to him, this was with our older boys in
high school. I just couldn't deal with them any longer. We have come a long way
since then though we were never big school-at-homers. I really enjoy where my
DH is today, I never dreamed it possible.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschoolingdad@... writes:
> I suppose that's why it was easier for me to make the transition fromThat is what gave me the courage to hs even though I knew at that time my DH
> school to unschooling than some other people I've met or read about. I KNOW,
> first hand, that school doesn't work. My son is proof.
was not totally supportive. His journey was similar to yours because I turned
the dealing with the school job over to him, this was with our older boys in
high school. I just couldn't deal with them any longer. We have come a long way
since then though we were never big school-at-homers. I really enjoy where my
DH is today, I never dreamed it possible.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]