spectrum kids, rage, unschooling (long)
rachel_foodie
This morning started out innocently enough. We all slept late.
Morning is always time for cuddling, especially Ben (our "special"
kid...pdd-nos). He loves "snuggling". I snuggle him to bed, I
snuggle him in the morning when he comes in to our room. The kids
went down and played with a new playdoh toy, after having breakfast.
All was well. NOw, I know there are some Feingolders here (we used to
be) I have to say out front, the behavior I am about to mention is
something that never changed on all the diets we tried. It is the
most difficult of all his issues and springs out of nowhere. One
never knows when an "incident" will occur.
So, Robert (my dh their dad) comes into the living room and starts
play fighting. Everything is fine, Ben is laughing, having a blast
being launched onto the couch, Autumn, our almost 4 year old joins in
the fun. Ben has SID issues (obvious) and loves proprioceptive input
(a crash bang kid). So he's throwing punches and stuff. Then I
join in because Robert is "under attack" and then Ben's play gets
rough, he is out to get "me". He loves me more than anyone in the
world. But his anger toward me at the same time is immense. Once he
seems to cross a line he really wants to hurt the hell out of me. I
ran upstairs and enlisted the help of my 14 year old, Andrew, who is
always happy to kick some butt (g). Actually, he is a very peaceful
kid, but he's huge 6ft and 180 pounds. SO he's a great shield. Then
I ran downstairs and hid in my husband's office til Robert and
Andrew could grab Ben and protect me from him. When I thought I was
in the clear, Ben found me and started punching the crap out of me.
Robert has him now, and is trying to calm him down. We sometimes call
this "Hulk" behavior, because Ben enjoys rough housing, but sometimes
he can cross the threshold and he is suddenly green with rage and is
my 7 year old Hulk.
I'm curious how many of you deal with this
stuff, and what you do about it? Ben just came up and told me that he
talked with Dad and what happens is he thinks the fight is real and
he has to really get me. It's like this is that difficulty with
pretend play stuff. Robert came up and told me that Ben (at 7) is so
worried about stuff WAY in the future. How is going to get a job,
what if he gets lost on the way there. How is he going to know what
toys to buy his kids, which toys to give to charity when his kids out
grow them. Then he told Robert that he (Robert) needs to teach Ben
these things so he can be a grown up. Robert answered that he
doesn't teach these things to Andrew (14) and that Ben should just
enjoy being a kid, but if Ben really wants him to he will. Ugh? You
think you have an idea of what's floating
around in your kid's head, and you have really have no idea.
Then, worst of all, Robert says to me that he thinks we really should
consider special ed school for Ben, even if it is only a few days a
week. I asked what he thought that could possibly accomplish for
Ben, other than teach him that when you are full of rage you get sent
away from your loving family. He understood, but he said that his
conversation with Ben suggested to him that Ben feels out of control
of things because he doesn't "know" about them. Granted, I have
posted here before that Ben says he wants to know how to read, but he
isn't interested in learning how to go about that. What do
unschoolers say about a kid that is asking to be able to master a
skill and wants your help, but then has no patience for when you try
and give the asked for help. Is "teaching" always EVIL, or is it
necessary sometimes? I really don't have a clue. Here I am letting
this kid enjoy his life. I think it's going great, then he yells at
as that we are preparing him for his future. What the hell??? FYI, I
have read the various essays on Sandra's site regarding special needs
kids, and spend some time on the unschooling.com msg boards of the
same topic. For those that don't have a kid like this, it may be
difficult to understand, that in the back of my mind, I get scared of
the idea that when Ben is 14 and huge, if he gets that mad at me, he
could really hurt me. It scares me for both of us, because he if
really hurt me in a fit of blind rage, his remorse when it was over
would verge on suicide. He has already shown this side of himself at
7 1/2.
This is a child who was nursed til he was 5. Slept with us til he was
almost 6. Has been unschooled, except for a brief 3 days per week for
5 weeks stint in special ed class 2 years ago, at 5 (which was a
nightmare I don't wish to repeat, though every one is bearing down on
me to reapeat it.) He has been on meds for a year (for anxiety) and
prior to that we did every natural diet, remedy, supplements in order
to prevent meds. I am a concerned, educated, very in love with my
children mother, who only wants the best for me kids. My husband, who
may not be on board, totally, with unschooling, has come a long way.
Most of all, he loves his kids desperately too. He is so concerned
and worried about his Ben. These kind of "incidents" scare the living
sh*t out of us. Okay, I'm ready, everyone with
an opinion...FIRE AWAY.
Rachel
Morning is always time for cuddling, especially Ben (our "special"
kid...pdd-nos). He loves "snuggling". I snuggle him to bed, I
snuggle him in the morning when he comes in to our room. The kids
went down and played with a new playdoh toy, after having breakfast.
All was well. NOw, I know there are some Feingolders here (we used to
be) I have to say out front, the behavior I am about to mention is
something that never changed on all the diets we tried. It is the
most difficult of all his issues and springs out of nowhere. One
never knows when an "incident" will occur.
So, Robert (my dh their dad) comes into the living room and starts
play fighting. Everything is fine, Ben is laughing, having a blast
being launched onto the couch, Autumn, our almost 4 year old joins in
the fun. Ben has SID issues (obvious) and loves proprioceptive input
(a crash bang kid). So he's throwing punches and stuff. Then I
join in because Robert is "under attack" and then Ben's play gets
rough, he is out to get "me". He loves me more than anyone in the
world. But his anger toward me at the same time is immense. Once he
seems to cross a line he really wants to hurt the hell out of me. I
ran upstairs and enlisted the help of my 14 year old, Andrew, who is
always happy to kick some butt (g). Actually, he is a very peaceful
kid, but he's huge 6ft and 180 pounds. SO he's a great shield. Then
I ran downstairs and hid in my husband's office til Robert and
Andrew could grab Ben and protect me from him. When I thought I was
in the clear, Ben found me and started punching the crap out of me.
Robert has him now, and is trying to calm him down. We sometimes call
this "Hulk" behavior, because Ben enjoys rough housing, but sometimes
he can cross the threshold and he is suddenly green with rage and is
my 7 year old Hulk.
I'm curious how many of you deal with this
stuff, and what you do about it? Ben just came up and told me that he
talked with Dad and what happens is he thinks the fight is real and
he has to really get me. It's like this is that difficulty with
pretend play stuff. Robert came up and told me that Ben (at 7) is so
worried about stuff WAY in the future. How is going to get a job,
what if he gets lost on the way there. How is he going to know what
toys to buy his kids, which toys to give to charity when his kids out
grow them. Then he told Robert that he (Robert) needs to teach Ben
these things so he can be a grown up. Robert answered that he
doesn't teach these things to Andrew (14) and that Ben should just
enjoy being a kid, but if Ben really wants him to he will. Ugh? You
think you have an idea of what's floating
around in your kid's head, and you have really have no idea.
Then, worst of all, Robert says to me that he thinks we really should
consider special ed school for Ben, even if it is only a few days a
week. I asked what he thought that could possibly accomplish for
Ben, other than teach him that when you are full of rage you get sent
away from your loving family. He understood, but he said that his
conversation with Ben suggested to him that Ben feels out of control
of things because he doesn't "know" about them. Granted, I have
posted here before that Ben says he wants to know how to read, but he
isn't interested in learning how to go about that. What do
unschoolers say about a kid that is asking to be able to master a
skill and wants your help, but then has no patience for when you try
and give the asked for help. Is "teaching" always EVIL, or is it
necessary sometimes? I really don't have a clue. Here I am letting
this kid enjoy his life. I think it's going great, then he yells at
as that we are preparing him for his future. What the hell??? FYI, I
have read the various essays on Sandra's site regarding special needs
kids, and spend some time on the unschooling.com msg boards of the
same topic. For those that don't have a kid like this, it may be
difficult to understand, that in the back of my mind, I get scared of
the idea that when Ben is 14 and huge, if he gets that mad at me, he
could really hurt me. It scares me for both of us, because he if
really hurt me in a fit of blind rage, his remorse when it was over
would verge on suicide. He has already shown this side of himself at
7 1/2.
This is a child who was nursed til he was 5. Slept with us til he was
almost 6. Has been unschooled, except for a brief 3 days per week for
5 weeks stint in special ed class 2 years ago, at 5 (which was a
nightmare I don't wish to repeat, though every one is bearing down on
me to reapeat it.) He has been on meds for a year (for anxiety) and
prior to that we did every natural diet, remedy, supplements in order
to prevent meds. I am a concerned, educated, very in love with my
children mother, who only wants the best for me kids. My husband, who
may not be on board, totally, with unschooling, has come a long way.
Most of all, he loves his kids desperately too. He is so concerned
and worried about his Ben. These kind of "incidents" scare the living
sh*t out of us. Okay, I'm ready, everyone with
an opinion...FIRE AWAY.
Rachel
TreeGoddess
On Jan 18, 2004, at 1:30 PM, rachel_foodie wrote:
wrote) that this activity is just too much for him to handle. Too much
stimulation and he doesn't have the ablility to know the difference
between fighting and playing. Just don't do it anymore and you likely
won't cause him to have that sort of reaction.
JMO, :)
Tracy
> When I thought I was in the clear, Ben found me and started punchingDon't play fight anymore. Seems pretty obvious to me (reading what you
> the crap out of me.
> Robert has him now, and is trying to calm him down. We sometimes call
> this "Hulk" behavior, because Ben enjoys rough housing, but sometimes
> he can cross the threshold and he is suddenly green with rage and is
> my 7 year old Hulk.
>
> I'm curious how many of you deal with this stuff, and what you do
> about it?
wrote) that this activity is just too much for him to handle. Too much
stimulation and he doesn't have the ablility to know the difference
between fighting and playing. Just don't do it anymore and you likely
won't cause him to have that sort of reaction.
JMO, :)
Tracy
pam sorooshian
On Jan 18, 2004, at 10:30 AM, rachel_foodie wrote:
among really super imaginative bright kids - sometimes to the point of
really affecting them, like it seems to be for Ben.
I don't have real "answers" - sometimes it helps to give them real true
and very specific information, but sometimes that makes things
worse,too, because they aren't able to evaluate probabilities very well
so things that are highly unlikely seem just as likely to happen as
anything else.
I once was sitting around a campfire with some families and the topic
turned to brush fires we were experiencing - about a hundred miles away
from where we were. Later I found out that one little girl there was
completely immobilized with fear, the whole night, thinking that fires
might come and burn us all up. She was about 7 or 8 years old and her
mom apparently tried to explain to her that the fires were far away,
etc., but she had "gotten it" that they were in our state and that just
felt too scary to her. The problem was that she could really visualize
it - and those visions were terrifying to her.
I think you just have to use your own judgment on a situation by
situation basis - talk to him a LOT and work really really hard to be
sure he has a chance to express his worries about the future and
reassure him with real information and facts, when you can.
School would be awful, don't you think? They'll make him think he'll
never by okay.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> He understood, but he said that hisRachel - this kind of anxiety about the future unknown is not unusual
> conversation with Ben suggested to him that Ben feels out of control
> of things because he doesn't "know" about them.
among really super imaginative bright kids - sometimes to the point of
really affecting them, like it seems to be for Ben.
I don't have real "answers" - sometimes it helps to give them real true
and very specific information, but sometimes that makes things
worse,too, because they aren't able to evaluate probabilities very well
so things that are highly unlikely seem just as likely to happen as
anything else.
I once was sitting around a campfire with some families and the topic
turned to brush fires we were experiencing - about a hundred miles away
from where we were. Later I found out that one little girl there was
completely immobilized with fear, the whole night, thinking that fires
might come and burn us all up. She was about 7 or 8 years old and her
mom apparently tried to explain to her that the fires were far away,
etc., but she had "gotten it" that they were in our state and that just
felt too scary to her. The problem was that she could really visualize
it - and those visions were terrifying to her.
I think you just have to use your own judgment on a situation by
situation basis - talk to him a LOT and work really really hard to be
sure he has a chance to express his worries about the future and
reassure him with real information and facts, when you can.
School would be awful, don't you think? They'll make him think he'll
never by okay.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Wendy Carr
< once was sitting around a campfire with some families and the topic
turned to brush fires we were experiencing - about a hundred miles away
from where we were. Later I found out that one little girl there was
completely immobilized with fear, the whole night, thinking that fires
might come and burn us all up. She was about 7 or 8 years old and her
mom apparently tried to explain to her that the fires were far away,
etc., but she had "gotten it" that they were in our state and that just
felt too scary to her. The problem was that she could really visualize
it - and those visions were terrifying to her.
getitng hurt, so I wont/cant let them do certain things that they might
like, because I can just SEE them hurting themselves! LOL
I also fear going out of town cause I can see something happening to us!!
When the first baby laughed for the first time, the laugh broke into a
thousand pieces and they all went skipping about, and that was the beginning
of fairies. - Barrie
Mom to Austyn(8) and Caitlin(5 months)
Proud To Home-school!
_________________________________________________________________
Rethink your business approach for the new year with the helpful tips here.
http://special.msn.com/bcentral/prep04.armx
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
turned to brush fires we were experiencing - about a hundred miles away
from where we were. Later I found out that one little girl there was
completely immobilized with fear, the whole night, thinking that fires
might come and burn us all up. She was about 7 or 8 years old and her
mom apparently tried to explain to her that the fires were far away,
etc., but she had "gotten it" that they were in our state and that just
felt too scary to her. The problem was that she could really visualize
it - and those visions were terrifying to her.
>I was just like this as a child! And now as an adult...I can "SEE" my kids
getitng hurt, so I wont/cant let them do certain things that they might
like, because I can just SEE them hurting themselves! LOL
I also fear going out of town cause I can see something happening to us!!
>From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>Wendy Carr
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] spectrum kids, rage, unschooling
>(long)
>Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 14:34:40 -0800
>
When the first baby laughed for the first time, the laugh broke into a
thousand pieces and they all went skipping about, and that was the beginning
of fairies. - Barrie
Mom to Austyn(8) and Caitlin(5 months)
Proud To Home-school!
_________________________________________________________________
Rethink your business approach for the new year with the helpful tips here.
http://special.msn.com/bcentral/prep04.armx
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/18/2004 5:27:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
This morning started out innocently enough. We all slept late.
Morning is always time for cuddling, especially Ben (our "special"
kid...pdd-nos). He loves "snuggling". I snuggle him to bed, I
snuggle him in the morning when he comes in to our room. The kids
went down and played with a new playdoh toy, after having breakfast.
All was well. NOw, I know there are some Feingolders here (we used to
be) I have to say out front, the behavior I am about to mention is
something that never changed on all the diets we tried. It is the
most difficult of all his issues and springs out of nowhere. One
never knows when an "incident" will occur.
So, Robert (my dh their dad) comes into the living room and starts
play fighting. Everything is fine, Ben is laughing, having a blast
being launched onto the couch, Autumn, our almost 4 year old joins in
the fun. Ben has SID issues (obvious) and loves proprioceptive input
(a crash bang kid). So he's throwing punches and stuff. Then I
join in because Robert is "under attack" and then Ben's play gets
rough, he is out to get "me". He loves me more than anyone in the
world. But his anger toward me at the same time is immense. Once he
seems to cross a line he really wants to hurt the hell out of me. I
ran upstairs and enlisted the help of my 14 year old, Andrew, who is
always happy to kick some butt (g). Actually, he is a very peaceful
kid, but he's huge 6ft and 180 pounds. SO he's a great shield. Then
I ran downstairs and hid in my husband's office til Robert and
Andrew could grab Ben and protect me from him. When I thought I was
in the clear, Ben found me and started punching the crap out of me.
Robert has him now, and is trying to calm him down. We sometimes call
this "Hulk" behavior, because Ben enjoys rough housing, but sometimes
he can cross the threshold and he is suddenly green with rage and is
my 7 year old Hulk.
I'm curious how many of you deal with this
stuff, and what you do about it? Ben just came up and told me that he
talked with Dad and what happens is he thinks the fight is real and
he has to really get me. It's like this is that difficulty with
pretend play stuff. Robert came up and told me that Ben (at 7) is so
worried about stuff WAY in the future. How is going to get a job,
what if he gets lost on the way there. How is he going to know what
toys to buy his kids, which toys to give to charity when his kids out
grow them. Then he told Robert that he (Robert) needs to teach Ben
these things so he can be a grown up. Robert answered that he
doesn't teach these things to Andrew (14) and that Ben should just
enjoy being a kid, but if Ben really wants him to he will. Ugh? You
think you have an idea of what's floating
around in your kid's head, and you have really have no idea.
Then, worst of all, Robert says to me that he thinks we really should
consider special ed school for Ben, even if it is only a few days a
week. I asked what he thought that could possibly accomplish for
Ben, other than teach him that when you are full of rage you get sent
away from your loving family. He understood, but he said that his
conversation with Ben suggested to him that Ben feels out of control
of things because he doesn't "know" about them. Granted, I have
posted here before that Ben says he wants to know how to read, but he
isn't interested in learning how to go about that. What do
unschoolers say about a kid that is asking to be able to master a
skill and wants your help, but then has no patience for when you try
and give the asked for help. Is "teaching" always EVIL, or is it
necessary sometimes? I really don't have a clue. Here I am letting
this kid enjoy his life. I think it's going great, then he yells at
as that we are preparing him for his future. What the hell??? FYI, I
have read the various essays on Sandra's site regarding special needs
kids, and spend some time on the unschooling.com msg boards of the
same topic. For those that don't have a kid like this, it may be
difficult to understand, that in the back of my mind, I get scared of
the idea that when Ben is 14 and huge, if he gets that mad at me, he
could really hurt me. It scares me for both of us, because he if
really hurt me in a fit of blind rage, his remorse when it was over
would verge on suicide. He has already shown this side of himself at
7 1/2.
This is a child who was nursed til he was 5. Slept with us til he was
almost 6. Has been unschooled, except for a brief 3 days per week for
5 weeks stint in special ed class 2 years ago, at 5 (which was a
nightmare I don't wish to repeat, though every one is bearing down on
me to reapeat it.) He has been on meds for a year (for anxiety) and
prior to that we did every natural diet, remedy, supplements in order
to prevent meds. I am a concerned, educated, very in love with my
children mother, who only wants the best for me kids. My husband, who
may not be on board, totally, with unschooling, has come a long way.
Most of all, he loves his kids desperately too. He is so concerned
and worried about his Ben. These kind of "incidents" scare the living
sh*t out of us. Okay, I'm ready, everyone with
an opinion...FIRE AWAY.
Rachel
*******************************
Rachel, I absolutely think you SHOULD be scared, for you and for Ben. If at 7
he gets so violent that you are in danger of being hurt and need help, you
need to work this out now.
When Julian was little his dad would play active games with him that would
excite and thrill Julian. At first he'd be having a great time and laughing, but
suddenly he would fall apart and start to cry. Lots of guys do that with
children, and it's hard to know when it's too much and when to stop.
My first suggestion is that no adult (or bigger kid) should initiate this
kind of play in your house. Ben can't control the feelings that come up, and it's
not fair to him. This is one place where you CAN control the environment so
he isn't in this position.
If Ben initiates a very active game, the adults involved should find a way to
deflect the game so it's not a fighting game. It can still be active, but not
have implications that it could be anything real or serious where he could
feel out of control.
Another thing that might help is to have a "safe word." When Julian was
little he liked to be tickled, but it was vital that he (or anyone else in the
family) could feel in control of it. So if someone said "Tipper Gore" it stopped
immediately.
This isn't going to eliminate his issues of rage and violent reactions,
because they may still come up in other contexts. But this is not a kid who needs
the pressure of play fighting. He must feel horrible when it happens, and when
he gets bigger it COULD be a real problem.
Sending Ben to school will NOT make it better. It will be more stress. But
you could ask him what he wants to know for when he's grown up, and tell him
you'll make sure he knows those things. Ask him if he'd like to learn to cook, or
do laundry, or help you do something for his little sister, so he can learn
to be a good dad if he wants someday.
If he's feeling bad about reading (which sucks, given that he's only 7!),
tell him that different people learn to read in different ways, and that you'll
work together to find HIS way, so it can be fun. Remind him that learning is
supposed to be fun. We can help brainstorm ideas for learning to read for him.
Teaching is not bad or good, or even contradictory to unschooling. Julian has
a teacher for a course he's taking, and he has a guitar teacher. The
difference is that he chooses what he wants to learn, and chooses to have teachers for
those things. If Ben WANTS you to teach a particular skill, just make sure
you teach him in the way he wants to learn.
But, more than anything else, I'd stop the play fighting in the house.
Adult-initiated fighting games like that can be scary and feel out-of-control for
kids with much calmer natures than Ben, and for Ben it seems really important,
however much fun it seems at first.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
This morning started out innocently enough. We all slept late.
Morning is always time for cuddling, especially Ben (our "special"
kid...pdd-nos). He loves "snuggling". I snuggle him to bed, I
snuggle him in the morning when he comes in to our room. The kids
went down and played with a new playdoh toy, after having breakfast.
All was well. NOw, I know there are some Feingolders here (we used to
be) I have to say out front, the behavior I am about to mention is
something that never changed on all the diets we tried. It is the
most difficult of all his issues and springs out of nowhere. One
never knows when an "incident" will occur.
So, Robert (my dh their dad) comes into the living room and starts
play fighting. Everything is fine, Ben is laughing, having a blast
being launched onto the couch, Autumn, our almost 4 year old joins in
the fun. Ben has SID issues (obvious) and loves proprioceptive input
(a crash bang kid). So he's throwing punches and stuff. Then I
join in because Robert is "under attack" and then Ben's play gets
rough, he is out to get "me". He loves me more than anyone in the
world. But his anger toward me at the same time is immense. Once he
seems to cross a line he really wants to hurt the hell out of me. I
ran upstairs and enlisted the help of my 14 year old, Andrew, who is
always happy to kick some butt (g). Actually, he is a very peaceful
kid, but he's huge 6ft and 180 pounds. SO he's a great shield. Then
I ran downstairs and hid in my husband's office til Robert and
Andrew could grab Ben and protect me from him. When I thought I was
in the clear, Ben found me and started punching the crap out of me.
Robert has him now, and is trying to calm him down. We sometimes call
this "Hulk" behavior, because Ben enjoys rough housing, but sometimes
he can cross the threshold and he is suddenly green with rage and is
my 7 year old Hulk.
I'm curious how many of you deal with this
stuff, and what you do about it? Ben just came up and told me that he
talked with Dad and what happens is he thinks the fight is real and
he has to really get me. It's like this is that difficulty with
pretend play stuff. Robert came up and told me that Ben (at 7) is so
worried about stuff WAY in the future. How is going to get a job,
what if he gets lost on the way there. How is he going to know what
toys to buy his kids, which toys to give to charity when his kids out
grow them. Then he told Robert that he (Robert) needs to teach Ben
these things so he can be a grown up. Robert answered that he
doesn't teach these things to Andrew (14) and that Ben should just
enjoy being a kid, but if Ben really wants him to he will. Ugh? You
think you have an idea of what's floating
around in your kid's head, and you have really have no idea.
Then, worst of all, Robert says to me that he thinks we really should
consider special ed school for Ben, even if it is only a few days a
week. I asked what he thought that could possibly accomplish for
Ben, other than teach him that when you are full of rage you get sent
away from your loving family. He understood, but he said that his
conversation with Ben suggested to him that Ben feels out of control
of things because he doesn't "know" about them. Granted, I have
posted here before that Ben says he wants to know how to read, but he
isn't interested in learning how to go about that. What do
unschoolers say about a kid that is asking to be able to master a
skill and wants your help, but then has no patience for when you try
and give the asked for help. Is "teaching" always EVIL, or is it
necessary sometimes? I really don't have a clue. Here I am letting
this kid enjoy his life. I think it's going great, then he yells at
as that we are preparing him for his future. What the hell??? FYI, I
have read the various essays on Sandra's site regarding special needs
kids, and spend some time on the unschooling.com msg boards of the
same topic. For those that don't have a kid like this, it may be
difficult to understand, that in the back of my mind, I get scared of
the idea that when Ben is 14 and huge, if he gets that mad at me, he
could really hurt me. It scares me for both of us, because he if
really hurt me in a fit of blind rage, his remorse when it was over
would verge on suicide. He has already shown this side of himself at
7 1/2.
This is a child who was nursed til he was 5. Slept with us til he was
almost 6. Has been unschooled, except for a brief 3 days per week for
5 weeks stint in special ed class 2 years ago, at 5 (which was a
nightmare I don't wish to repeat, though every one is bearing down on
me to reapeat it.) He has been on meds for a year (for anxiety) and
prior to that we did every natural diet, remedy, supplements in order
to prevent meds. I am a concerned, educated, very in love with my
children mother, who only wants the best for me kids. My husband, who
may not be on board, totally, with unschooling, has come a long way.
Most of all, he loves his kids desperately too. He is so concerned
and worried about his Ben. These kind of "incidents" scare the living
sh*t out of us. Okay, I'm ready, everyone with
an opinion...FIRE AWAY.
Rachel
*******************************
Rachel, I absolutely think you SHOULD be scared, for you and for Ben. If at 7
he gets so violent that you are in danger of being hurt and need help, you
need to work this out now.
When Julian was little his dad would play active games with him that would
excite and thrill Julian. At first he'd be having a great time and laughing, but
suddenly he would fall apart and start to cry. Lots of guys do that with
children, and it's hard to know when it's too much and when to stop.
My first suggestion is that no adult (or bigger kid) should initiate this
kind of play in your house. Ben can't control the feelings that come up, and it's
not fair to him. This is one place where you CAN control the environment so
he isn't in this position.
If Ben initiates a very active game, the adults involved should find a way to
deflect the game so it's not a fighting game. It can still be active, but not
have implications that it could be anything real or serious where he could
feel out of control.
Another thing that might help is to have a "safe word." When Julian was
little he liked to be tickled, but it was vital that he (or anyone else in the
family) could feel in control of it. So if someone said "Tipper Gore" it stopped
immediately.
This isn't going to eliminate his issues of rage and violent reactions,
because they may still come up in other contexts. But this is not a kid who needs
the pressure of play fighting. He must feel horrible when it happens, and when
he gets bigger it COULD be a real problem.
Sending Ben to school will NOT make it better. It will be more stress. But
you could ask him what he wants to know for when he's grown up, and tell him
you'll make sure he knows those things. Ask him if he'd like to learn to cook, or
do laundry, or help you do something for his little sister, so he can learn
to be a good dad if he wants someday.
If he's feeling bad about reading (which sucks, given that he's only 7!),
tell him that different people learn to read in different ways, and that you'll
work together to find HIS way, so it can be fun. Remind him that learning is
supposed to be fun. We can help brainstorm ideas for learning to read for him.
Teaching is not bad or good, or even contradictory to unschooling. Julian has
a teacher for a course he's taking, and he has a guitar teacher. The
difference is that he chooses what he wants to learn, and chooses to have teachers for
those things. If Ben WANTS you to teach a particular skill, just make sure
you teach him in the way he wants to learn.
But, more than anything else, I'd stop the play fighting in the house.
Adult-initiated fighting games like that can be scary and feel out-of-control for
kids with much calmer natures than Ben, and for Ben it seems really important,
however much fun it seems at first.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/18/04 4:00:38 PM, KathrynJB@... writes:
<< If he's feeling bad about reading (which sucks, given that he's only 7!),
tell him that different people learn to read in different ways, and that
you'll
work together to find HIS way, so it can be fun. >>
Tell him it takes a long time too, sometimes years. It's not something you
learn like tying your shoes or your phone number.
I agree with those who've said play-fighting isn't good for this child at
this time.
Would he have any interest in karate or something like that, where they could
help him use his strength but at the same time teach him when and how NOT to
use it?
Sandra
Sandra
<< If he's feeling bad about reading (which sucks, given that he's only 7!),
tell him that different people learn to read in different ways, and that
you'll
work together to find HIS way, so it can be fun. >>
Tell him it takes a long time too, sometimes years. It's not something you
learn like tying your shoes or your phone number.
I agree with those who've said play-fighting isn't good for this child at
this time.
Would he have any interest in karate or something like that, where they could
help him use his strength but at the same time teach him when and how NOT to
use it?
Sandra
Sandra
eaglefalconlark
I never play-fought when I was a kid. My family just wasn't like
that. So I don't have childhood experience with it... but I do have
adult experience with it. And some of the feelings that came up as
an adult were so intense and angry that I wondered if it would have
been even more so for me as a child (because I do remember feeling
things very intensely, in general, as a child.)
This is what I felt: my boyfriend at the time would start out by
initiating some playful wrestling, even affectionate. It would
almost always turn into something, though, that wasn't just about us
being physical with each other in a positive way. It was subtly
aggressive and competitive, and well, he was stronger than me. I
cannot begin to tell you how filled with rage that our "fighting"
was not equal, that he had the upper hand and I felt weaker. I would
really want to hurt him I would be so angry. But I had the ability
to control that impulse -- I can imagine it being harder for some
people to do so, perhaps especially a special needs child for whom
it is too much to handle on top of all the other every day
frustrations.
I agree totally with Kathryn, who wrote: "My first suggestion is
that no adult (or bigger kid) should initiate this kind of play in
your house.[...] If Ben initiates a very active game, the adults
involved should find a way to deflect the game so it's not a
fighting game. It can still be active, but not have implications
that it could be anything real or serious where he could feel out of
control." ... or, I would add, where imbalance of power could be an
issue.
Linda
that. So I don't have childhood experience with it... but I do have
adult experience with it. And some of the feelings that came up as
an adult were so intense and angry that I wondered if it would have
been even more so for me as a child (because I do remember feeling
things very intensely, in general, as a child.)
This is what I felt: my boyfriend at the time would start out by
initiating some playful wrestling, even affectionate. It would
almost always turn into something, though, that wasn't just about us
being physical with each other in a positive way. It was subtly
aggressive and competitive, and well, he was stronger than me. I
cannot begin to tell you how filled with rage that our "fighting"
was not equal, that he had the upper hand and I felt weaker. I would
really want to hurt him I would be so angry. But I had the ability
to control that impulse -- I can imagine it being harder for some
people to do so, perhaps especially a special needs child for whom
it is too much to handle on top of all the other every day
frustrations.
I agree totally with Kathryn, who wrote: "My first suggestion is
that no adult (or bigger kid) should initiate this kind of play in
your house.[...] If Ben initiates a very active game, the adults
involved should find a way to deflect the game so it's not a
fighting game. It can still be active, but not have implications
that it could be anything real or serious where he could feel out of
control." ... or, I would add, where imbalance of power could be an
issue.
Linda