Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] short hair girls
Kathy Culwell
He said "Holly, I like your haircut. Most girls your age wouldn't be brave
enough to have their hair that short."
Holly smiled and shrugged and was friendly, and I said, "She's not in
school. That helps.">>>>>>>>>>>
A couple of months ago my daughter cut her long blonde hair short also (not
as short as Holly's, but short like pixie or Peter Pan). She is 10 and
often mistaken for a (cute) boy. She smiles and says I just cut my hair or
I'm a girl. She has no problem with it at all, although she has decided she
will probably grow it back. I have had many folk say how brave she is
(myself included as I have long hair also and am much to attached to
it/afraid to lose it). I have found it interesting though how she doesn't
really care what people think, or that they even mistake her for a boy!
Kathy
enough to have their hair that short."
Holly smiled and shrugged and was friendly, and I said, "She's not in
school. That helps.">>>>>>>>>>>
A couple of months ago my daughter cut her long blonde hair short also (not
as short as Holly's, but short like pixie or Peter Pan). She is 10 and
often mistaken for a (cute) boy. She smiles and says I just cut my hair or
I'm a girl. She has no problem with it at all, although she has decided she
will probably grow it back. I have had many folk say how brave she is
(myself included as I have long hair also and am much to attached to
it/afraid to lose it). I have found it interesting though how she doesn't
really care what people think, or that they even mistake her for a boy!
Kathy
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/18/04 11:01:56 AM, kaculwell@... writes:
<< I have found it interesting though how she doesn't
really care what people think, or that they even mistake her for a boy! >>
Yesterday we were in a fancy toystore, little place, one room, and Holly was
buying something for a birthday gift. The owner, a man in his 60's, said
"Are you ready, buddy?" and dealt with all her check out business. I had walked
over to the music section, to keep from snickering, and when we were leaving,
Holly said not only did he not know she was a girl, but he said two other
things he would only say to a boy, ending with "Thank you, young man!"
WHY?
That's what I don't get. What's the point of treating a male customer
differently from a female character?
My dad used to complain in the 60's that with boys wearing long hair and
girls wearing jeans and boots, he couldn't tell is someone walking on the street
was male or female. I asked him why he cared? He said it mattered in how you
treated them. I suggested he could treat them the same way. But he was
raised to shake hands with a man, to give a female the right of way on the
sidewalk and open doors for her, etc., and his very everyday behavior needed him to
know male from female.
Mine doesn't.
So there's a behavior change at least in some parts of the population in two
generations. It's foreign to Holly, it was common to my dad, and I see both
sides.
When I was in college in the 70's the question of who opens doors was BIG.
Some women were used to just standing there knowing a male person would open
the door for her. Some women started being vocally insulting if males opened
doors for them. Lots of people were advocating anyone opening the door for
anyone else who was carrying something, seemed frail or small or old. Some
older men, though, would be insulted if a big strong college girl opened a door
for him. I remember a long series of letters in the campus newspaper about the
possibility of changing traditional etiquette, and how to act.
Nowadays, it seems to have settled around here to whoever gets there first
opens the door but goes in and holds it for the next few people if they're near
enough. The door-holding is relinquished to the next "head of party" or
strongest-fastest kid of a group, or a gentlemanly looking man who seems eager to
take over door-holding.
It's pretty case-by-case, but I also live where strangers do tend to make eye
contact and to greet each other.
At UPS, people with packages get the door held by anyone who's near.
Is that common everywhere?
Sandra
<< I have found it interesting though how she doesn't
really care what people think, or that they even mistake her for a boy! >>
Yesterday we were in a fancy toystore, little place, one room, and Holly was
buying something for a birthday gift. The owner, a man in his 60's, said
"Are you ready, buddy?" and dealt with all her check out business. I had walked
over to the music section, to keep from snickering, and when we were leaving,
Holly said not only did he not know she was a girl, but he said two other
things he would only say to a boy, ending with "Thank you, young man!"
WHY?
That's what I don't get. What's the point of treating a male customer
differently from a female character?
My dad used to complain in the 60's that with boys wearing long hair and
girls wearing jeans and boots, he couldn't tell is someone walking on the street
was male or female. I asked him why he cared? He said it mattered in how you
treated them. I suggested he could treat them the same way. But he was
raised to shake hands with a man, to give a female the right of way on the
sidewalk and open doors for her, etc., and his very everyday behavior needed him to
know male from female.
Mine doesn't.
So there's a behavior change at least in some parts of the population in two
generations. It's foreign to Holly, it was common to my dad, and I see both
sides.
When I was in college in the 70's the question of who opens doors was BIG.
Some women were used to just standing there knowing a male person would open
the door for her. Some women started being vocally insulting if males opened
doors for them. Lots of people were advocating anyone opening the door for
anyone else who was carrying something, seemed frail or small or old. Some
older men, though, would be insulted if a big strong college girl opened a door
for him. I remember a long series of letters in the campus newspaper about the
possibility of changing traditional etiquette, and how to act.
Nowadays, it seems to have settled around here to whoever gets there first
opens the door but goes in and holds it for the next few people if they're near
enough. The door-holding is relinquished to the next "head of party" or
strongest-fastest kid of a group, or a gentlemanly looking man who seems eager to
take over door-holding.
It's pretty case-by-case, but I also live where strangers do tend to make eye
contact and to greet each other.
At UPS, people with packages get the door held by anyone who's near.
Is that common everywhere?
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/18/04 2:54:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
think, sometimes. People treat them as sweet, caring and kind. They are all of
those things but by just meeting them in a store or on the street you might not
see it as you would if you had a chance to talk with them. Also my boys can
go in either restroom without a second look. And at the age of 9, my oldest is
at a stage where sometimes he wants to go in the men's room, but if it is a
crowded place he wants to go in the ladies room with me, I feel more
comfortable with that as well, and no one takes a second look.
My boys are used to being called girls. They just correct the person and
usually explain that it isn't the first time someone has made that mistake.
There have been two times, both in restaurants, where the waitress, has said
girls and the boys have corrected them. Then she said "oh...we're boys today
are we." The boys just looked at them like they were crazy.
Once a waiter called the boys as girls and the boys corrected him. He looked
at me and asked if they were really boys. I said yes...they would know. He
then looked at a friend who was with us and asked her if it was right. She
answered that the mother should know if they are boys or not. We all laughed.
I remember when my oldest was about 6 and some kid in the grocery store made
a comment about if Dallen was a boy or a girl and Dallen said boy and the boy
laughed at Dallen. Dallen was hurt and of course I was hurt that my son was
hurt. Dallen then told me he wanted his hair cut. We talked. We looked
around and I pointed out all the men who had long hair. We talked about what he
liked and why he wanted it cut etc. I told him to think about it and if he
still wanted it cut I would do it for him. He thought for a few days then told me
he really wanted it long and was going to keep it that way. I was proud of
him but totally understand what it is like to be picked on. It has never
happened again.
Enough for me for one day.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> and when we were leaving,My boys are often mistaken as girls. They are treated more tenderly, I
> Holly said not only did he not know she was a girl, but he said two other
> things he would only say to a boy, ending with "Thank you, young man!"
>
> WHY?
> That's what I don't get. What's the point of treating a male customer
> differently from a female character?
>
>
think, sometimes. People treat them as sweet, caring and kind. They are all of
those things but by just meeting them in a store or on the street you might not
see it as you would if you had a chance to talk with them. Also my boys can
go in either restroom without a second look. And at the age of 9, my oldest is
at a stage where sometimes he wants to go in the men's room, but if it is a
crowded place he wants to go in the ladies room with me, I feel more
comfortable with that as well, and no one takes a second look.
My boys are used to being called girls. They just correct the person and
usually explain that it isn't the first time someone has made that mistake.
There have been two times, both in restaurants, where the waitress, has said
girls and the boys have corrected them. Then she said "oh...we're boys today
are we." The boys just looked at them like they were crazy.
Once a waiter called the boys as girls and the boys corrected him. He looked
at me and asked if they were really boys. I said yes...they would know. He
then looked at a friend who was with us and asked her if it was right. She
answered that the mother should know if they are boys or not. We all laughed.
I remember when my oldest was about 6 and some kid in the grocery store made
a comment about if Dallen was a boy or a girl and Dallen said boy and the boy
laughed at Dallen. Dallen was hurt and of course I was hurt that my son was
hurt. Dallen then told me he wanted his hair cut. We talked. We looked
around and I pointed out all the men who had long hair. We talked about what he
liked and why he wanted it cut etc. I told him to think about it and if he
still wanted it cut I would do it for him. He thought for a few days then told me
he really wanted it long and was going to keep it that way. I was proud of
him but totally understand what it is like to be picked on. It has never
happened again.
Enough for me for one day.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/18/2004 1:54:50 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
went to a shop the day after to catch a sale and get gifts for people we
didn't' see before the holiday. I had a lot more stuff that she did, getting a
head start on next year's Christmas list. She waited outside as they rang me up
and hunted for shipping boxes and such. When I came out, I felt a need to
apologize for the delay, as she had an impatient look on her face. She said she
had forgotten about the chitchat factor. Her 10 year old son said all he
ever gets asked in the store is if he wants to buy a lottery ticket.
So, no, it's probably not everywhere. But in suburban Chicago, and even in
the city when I lived there, people tend to greet each other and treat each
other nicely.
As far as Holly's hair and treating male and female customer's differently, I
can completely relate! My five year old boy tends to wear his hair long --
he's mistaken for a girl a lot, even now that it's shorter. I think I've told
the story here before about how a woman commented on my beautiful girls at the
grocery store and he proudly said "Yes, but I have a penis!" It doesn't'
really bother him, but he doesn't' get it either. Everyone makes a fuss over him
at ballet/tap class because he's the only boy. He just loves to dance and
couldn't care less about the distinction!
Elizabeth in IL
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> It's pretty case-by-case, but I also live where strangers do tend to makeMy sister was in town from New York over Christmas, as she is every year. We
> eye
> contact and to greet each other.
>
went to a shop the day after to catch a sale and get gifts for people we
didn't' see before the holiday. I had a lot more stuff that she did, getting a
head start on next year's Christmas list. She waited outside as they rang me up
and hunted for shipping boxes and such. When I came out, I felt a need to
apologize for the delay, as she had an impatient look on her face. She said she
had forgotten about the chitchat factor. Her 10 year old son said all he
ever gets asked in the store is if he wants to buy a lottery ticket.
So, no, it's probably not everywhere. But in suburban Chicago, and even in
the city when I lived there, people tend to greet each other and treat each
other nicely.
As far as Holly's hair and treating male and female customer's differently, I
can completely relate! My five year old boy tends to wear his hair long --
he's mistaken for a girl a lot, even now that it's shorter. I think I've told
the story here before about how a woman commented on my beautiful girls at the
grocery store and he proudly said "Yes, but I have a penis!" It doesn't'
really bother him, but he doesn't' get it either. Everyone makes a fuss over him
at ballet/tap class because he's the only boy. He just loves to dance and
couldn't care less about the distinction!
Elizabeth in IL
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lenhart
My big boys both have long hair. The 2.5 year olds is just a little too
short to go behind his ear and the almost 8 year old has hair most of the
way down his back. It's gorgeous.
The big one gets the "girl" stuff all the time. Kids seem to take a while
to shift gears and call him "her" for a while, but the don't seem to care
one way or the other. Grown ups seem a little embarassed or confused. I
just say, "His dad wears his hair long, too." and they seem to get it. I
did have one older man say, "But James is a boy's name." Poor James just
nodded and waited for him to get it. He didn't, I had to say something!
I'm considering getting both of them T-shirts that read "Long Haired Hippie
Freak in training!"
People seem to think that's funny. -smile-
As for the door thing, it seems to be getting to what Sandra said--people
hold it if they get there first or if you are clearly in need of help.
People will help me when I have the stroller. And they are charmed when the
2 year old does it. (Hell, so am I!)
I never got the boy thing when my hair was supper short. But it was after
puberty and the boobs were a dead give away! -smirk-
Kelly
short to go behind his ear and the almost 8 year old has hair most of the
way down his back. It's gorgeous.
The big one gets the "girl" stuff all the time. Kids seem to take a while
to shift gears and call him "her" for a while, but the don't seem to care
one way or the other. Grown ups seem a little embarassed or confused. I
just say, "His dad wears his hair long, too." and they seem to get it. I
did have one older man say, "But James is a boy's name." Poor James just
nodded and waited for him to get it. He didn't, I had to say something!
I'm considering getting both of them T-shirts that read "Long Haired Hippie
Freak in training!"
People seem to think that's funny. -smile-
As for the door thing, it seems to be getting to what Sandra said--people
hold it if they get there first or if you are clearly in need of help.
People will help me when I have the stroller. And they are charmed when the
2 year old does it. (Hell, so am I!)
I never got the boy thing when my hair was supper short. But it was after
puberty and the boobs were a dead give away! -smirk-
Kelly
Fetteroll
on 1/18/04 2:51 PM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
In Boston it's iffy. Probably mostly depend on how rushed they are and how
effectively they are tuning out the world around them.
Joyce
> At UPS, people with packages get the door held by anyone who's near.People will absolutely do it in our small town.
>
> Is that common everywhere?
In Boston it's iffy. Probably mostly depend on how rushed they are and how
effectively they are tuning out the world around them.
Joyce