The Hidden Agenda of Teaching
[email protected]
I came across this article while browsing tonight and it hit on some things I
have been thinking about lately, about how we can find ways to share what we
know and get others to share. I used to try to think of more ways to make
money but now I find myself thinking about more ways to bring people together.
Lately I've been thinking more about how to make more of a difference in the
world around me, I mean the immediate world around me like friends and family and
hoping it would branch out from there. OK, enough rambling, here's the link <
http://www.life.ca/nl/49/art.html>
Laura Buoni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
have been thinking about lately, about how we can find ways to share what we
know and get others to share. I used to try to think of more ways to make
money but now I find myself thinking about more ways to bring people together.
Lately I've been thinking more about how to make more of a difference in the
world around me, I mean the immediate world around me like friends and family and
hoping it would branch out from there. OK, enough rambling, here's the link <
http://www.life.ca/nl/49/art.html>
Laura Buoni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
TreeGoddess
I just love Natural Life magazine and it's "sister", Life Learning
magazine. :) Thanks for reminding me that I want to renew since I'm
on my final issue of each subscription. -Tracy-
magazine. :) Thanks for reminding me that I want to renew since I'm
on my final issue of each subscription. -Tracy-
On Jan 18, 2004, at 1:01 AM, BonKnit@... wrote:
> I came across this article while browsing tonight and it hit on some
> things I
> have been thinking about lately, about how we can find ways to share
> what we
> know and get others to share. http://www.life.ca/nl/49/art.html
eaglefalconlark
Laura, thanks for posting that, it was a timely thing for me to
read. I've been thinking about this a lot lately -- because of a
desire to help people with knowledge and skills that I have, I have
known for a long time that I would like to teach childbirth
education. And be compensated for it of course. Yet money creates
problems with my vision on many levels. For one thing, if I'm
charging I have to consider doing what people have come to expect
from people in this field. Starting out, I would be expected to show
evidence of a certain level of expertise, which means training and
certification (which in itself would cost *me* quite a bit of money)
and the classes would need to cover a range of things that I am not
necessarily interested in teaching about; it seems a simple enough
thing to just offer an approach I am comfortable with, yet because
no one else is doing it yet (and I have not done it yet myself)
there is not a precedent to help me and clients determine cost-
worth. There are other problems with it as well. One is from the
client side -- the client cannot be in it just for the learning that
they are ready for and desire, they feel they also have to "get
something for my money."
Last year I witnessed something heartbreaking that really made me
aware of this in a big way. I signed my boys up for an art class.
The children's ages in the class ranged from 3-6 years old, so my
daughter (who was 2 at the time) could not be officially enrolled,
but the teacher was fine with her using the art supplies. Sometimes
my daughter would be into it, but sometimes she would be more
interested in running around in a nearby room normally used for
dance classes. Well, there was a very young boy, probably only just
turned 3, who related to my daughter more than to the other kids in
the class, who were all older than him. He also seemed to be just
barely interested in working with the art materials. So everyone
would be sitting around doing their projects and my daughter would
wander off and immediately he would be aware of this and would want
to wander off with her. His mom was pretty successful at keeping him
working at the table. The trouble began when my boys decided to go
run around with their sister, which I had no problem with; nor did
it interfere with the teacher's teaching, as really it only amounted
to laying out basic projects and supplies and letting everyone have
at it. But now this little boy couldn't stand it, because other kids
in the class were allowed a freedom he wasn't. It clearly didn't
make sense to him. Usually his mom could coerce him into staying in
the classroom, but one day he just absolutely rebelled. He would not
listen to her. He started running around with my daughter gleefully
(my boys were still working on their projects.) His mom tolerated
this for a minute or two, then told him he had to get back to the
class. The teacher herself tried to coax him back to class, no doubt
feeling guilty that she was taking his mother's money yet couldn't
do her job, i.e., keep his attention. But he was just absolutely
done with art and wouldn't go back. This is when it got ugly. She
started guilt tripping him ("I pay all this money, and you're not
even doing it. Well maybe I just won't ever pay for you to take a
class again.") He still resisted, and she got more angry and more
forceful. This struggle went on for quite a while, and finally he
gave in and went back with her. It was awful. I thought, geez, good
way to encourage a love of art and learning in this poor kid. But
all she could think about was that she wasn't getting her money's
worth. I'm not suggesting that the teacher should have done these
classes for free (she appeared to be a poor art-student type, for
all I know she was relying on those classes to pay her rent,) only
that the experience for both teacher and student was spoiled because
money and obligation were primary concerns for the adults involved.
Anyway, I don't know yet what the answer for me is, how I will be
able to reconcile these things. Maybe this would only be a temporary
fix, I don't know how satisfying it would ultimately be, but the
other night it occured to me that I could just leave money out of
the equation until it naturally becomes part of the equation (could
it be possible that it would?) It really opens things up when you
don't expect to be monetarily compensated. It opens *people* up,
because whatever relationship develops has nothing to do with it
being a business deal, which makes people tend to feel guarded and
snarky and vulnerable. It would give me flexibility and freedom to
discover the approach to this work that is most personally
fulfilling to me. As far as mentorship goes, if I expect to be paid
I have to expect to pay (in money and obligations attached to that
money.) But instead I could call the local midwife up and say, "I'm
here, I'm not competition and I don't expect anything in return, I
just want to learn and give something to the community (teach). Can
you use me or help me find a way to do this?" How could she resist?
Still thinking about this, but while I can (that is, while money
does not *need* to be the focus for me) do it this way, it is
looking like a pretty attractive way to do what I want to do.
Linda
read. I've been thinking about this a lot lately -- because of a
desire to help people with knowledge and skills that I have, I have
known for a long time that I would like to teach childbirth
education. And be compensated for it of course. Yet money creates
problems with my vision on many levels. For one thing, if I'm
charging I have to consider doing what people have come to expect
from people in this field. Starting out, I would be expected to show
evidence of a certain level of expertise, which means training and
certification (which in itself would cost *me* quite a bit of money)
and the classes would need to cover a range of things that I am not
necessarily interested in teaching about; it seems a simple enough
thing to just offer an approach I am comfortable with, yet because
no one else is doing it yet (and I have not done it yet myself)
there is not a precedent to help me and clients determine cost-
worth. There are other problems with it as well. One is from the
client side -- the client cannot be in it just for the learning that
they are ready for and desire, they feel they also have to "get
something for my money."
Last year I witnessed something heartbreaking that really made me
aware of this in a big way. I signed my boys up for an art class.
The children's ages in the class ranged from 3-6 years old, so my
daughter (who was 2 at the time) could not be officially enrolled,
but the teacher was fine with her using the art supplies. Sometimes
my daughter would be into it, but sometimes she would be more
interested in running around in a nearby room normally used for
dance classes. Well, there was a very young boy, probably only just
turned 3, who related to my daughter more than to the other kids in
the class, who were all older than him. He also seemed to be just
barely interested in working with the art materials. So everyone
would be sitting around doing their projects and my daughter would
wander off and immediately he would be aware of this and would want
to wander off with her. His mom was pretty successful at keeping him
working at the table. The trouble began when my boys decided to go
run around with their sister, which I had no problem with; nor did
it interfere with the teacher's teaching, as really it only amounted
to laying out basic projects and supplies and letting everyone have
at it. But now this little boy couldn't stand it, because other kids
in the class were allowed a freedom he wasn't. It clearly didn't
make sense to him. Usually his mom could coerce him into staying in
the classroom, but one day he just absolutely rebelled. He would not
listen to her. He started running around with my daughter gleefully
(my boys were still working on their projects.) His mom tolerated
this for a minute or two, then told him he had to get back to the
class. The teacher herself tried to coax him back to class, no doubt
feeling guilty that she was taking his mother's money yet couldn't
do her job, i.e., keep his attention. But he was just absolutely
done with art and wouldn't go back. This is when it got ugly. She
started guilt tripping him ("I pay all this money, and you're not
even doing it. Well maybe I just won't ever pay for you to take a
class again.") He still resisted, and she got more angry and more
forceful. This struggle went on for quite a while, and finally he
gave in and went back with her. It was awful. I thought, geez, good
way to encourage a love of art and learning in this poor kid. But
all she could think about was that she wasn't getting her money's
worth. I'm not suggesting that the teacher should have done these
classes for free (she appeared to be a poor art-student type, for
all I know she was relying on those classes to pay her rent,) only
that the experience for both teacher and student was spoiled because
money and obligation were primary concerns for the adults involved.
Anyway, I don't know yet what the answer for me is, how I will be
able to reconcile these things. Maybe this would only be a temporary
fix, I don't know how satisfying it would ultimately be, but the
other night it occured to me that I could just leave money out of
the equation until it naturally becomes part of the equation (could
it be possible that it would?) It really opens things up when you
don't expect to be monetarily compensated. It opens *people* up,
because whatever relationship develops has nothing to do with it
being a business deal, which makes people tend to feel guarded and
snarky and vulnerable. It would give me flexibility and freedom to
discover the approach to this work that is most personally
fulfilling to me. As far as mentorship goes, if I expect to be paid
I have to expect to pay (in money and obligations attached to that
money.) But instead I could call the local midwife up and say, "I'm
here, I'm not competition and I don't expect anything in return, I
just want to learn and give something to the community (teach). Can
you use me or help me find a way to do this?" How could she resist?
Still thinking about this, but while I can (that is, while money
does not *need* to be the focus for me) do it this way, it is
looking like a pretty attractive way to do what I want to do.
Linda
Danielle Conger
I came across this article while browsing tonight and it hit on some things I
have been thinking about lately, about how we can find ways to share what we
know and get others to share. I used to try to think of more ways to make
money but now I find myself thinking about more ways to bring people together.
Lately I've been thinking more about how to make more of a difference in the
world around me, I mean the immediate world around me like friends and family and
hoping it would branch out from there. OK, enough rambling, here's the link <
http://www.life.ca/nl/49/art.html>
Laura Buoni
=========================================================================================
I think it's tough to offer a class to unschoolers. My kids take art classes and karate, but they're in a more formal setting where they are expected to behave in a certain way and we are free to stop coming for whatever reason (out the $$, of course). And we're likely the only homeschoolers in the class, never mind unschoolers.
But we had a friend offer an American Sign Language class (she might be reading this now and could speak to the issue better than I) where most of the students were unschoolers of vastly different ages. I know she struggled with a lot of the same issues that the article raises--how much structure to enforce or expect, what to do when students or her son were no longer interested in what was going on, how to gear the lessons to kids of varying ages, etc.
Initially, my girls really wanted to sign up but then lost interest part way through. I was still interested and felt an obligation (in a good way) to continue to attend, so I told my girls that they could color while I paid attention. Chances are we were more disruptive than anyone because my kids were the youngest members there. Overall, I really enjoyed taking the class and learned a lot, which my kids then picked up at home while I was practicing. So I think it was a positive experience overall, for us. But I don't know that my friend will ever offer another class again.
I don't know how you can do something structured with a whole group of unschoolers. I don't know how that would work really, but it's interesting to think about.
--danielle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
have been thinking about lately, about how we can find ways to share what we
know and get others to share. I used to try to think of more ways to make
money but now I find myself thinking about more ways to bring people together.
Lately I've been thinking more about how to make more of a difference in the
world around me, I mean the immediate world around me like friends and family and
hoping it would branch out from there. OK, enough rambling, here's the link <
http://www.life.ca/nl/49/art.html>
Laura Buoni
=========================================================================================
I think it's tough to offer a class to unschoolers. My kids take art classes and karate, but they're in a more formal setting where they are expected to behave in a certain way and we are free to stop coming for whatever reason (out the $$, of course). And we're likely the only homeschoolers in the class, never mind unschoolers.
But we had a friend offer an American Sign Language class (she might be reading this now and could speak to the issue better than I) where most of the students were unschoolers of vastly different ages. I know she struggled with a lot of the same issues that the article raises--how much structure to enforce or expect, what to do when students or her son were no longer interested in what was going on, how to gear the lessons to kids of varying ages, etc.
Initially, my girls really wanted to sign up but then lost interest part way through. I was still interested and felt an obligation (in a good way) to continue to attend, so I told my girls that they could color while I paid attention. Chances are we were more disruptive than anyone because my kids were the youngest members there. Overall, I really enjoyed taking the class and learned a lot, which my kids then picked up at home while I was practicing. So I think it was a positive experience overall, for us. But I don't know that my friend will ever offer another class again.
I don't know how you can do something structured with a whole group of unschoolers. I don't know how that would work really, but it's interesting to think about.
--danielle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/18/2004 5:44:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
danielle.conger@... writes:
<<Initially, my girls really wanted to sign up but then lost interest part
way through. I was still interested and felt an obligation (in a good way) to
continue to attend, so I told my girls that they could color while I paid
attention. Chances are we were more disruptive than anyone because my kids were the
youngest members there. Overall, I really enjoyed taking the class and learned
a lot, which my kids then picked up at home while I was practicing. So I
think it was a positive experience overall, for us. But I don't know that my
friend will ever offer another class again.>>
I have been thinking about classes a lot lately. My oldest daughter
currently takes ballet in a group with other teens and adults and voice in a private
lesson. She has also studied violin, both privately and in a group off and on,
since she was 3. My other 5 kids have never taken any formal lessons with
the exception of Antonio playing Pop Warner football one year.
I often feel guilty that I don't have enough money for all of my kids to take
lessons in a lot of things right now. I'm starting to let it go because I
realize that although some of them have expressed interest in classes, I was
usually the one who brought lessons up and made them seem great. I'm starting to
realize that I was the one who always wanted to take all these lessons, and
that right now, I am the one who should probably take them if we can afford it.
I've always felt guilty spending money on lessons for me. I've thought that
I owed it to my kids to give them all these advantages. Now I've realized
that I really need to listen to what they want and not my expectations of what
would be fun for them. Right now, Emily teaches ballet to Antonio, Paige,
JoAnn, and me a couple of times a week, very informally, and that is probably
enough of that for now. If they want lessons in the future, we'll work it out.
For now, if I want to learn something and I can't teach myself, I'm going to
invest our money in my learning. Then if my children express an interest, I
will be able to show them what I learned without the structure and challenges of
more formal learning situations.
--Jacqueline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
danielle.conger@... writes:
<<Initially, my girls really wanted to sign up but then lost interest part
way through. I was still interested and felt an obligation (in a good way) to
continue to attend, so I told my girls that they could color while I paid
attention. Chances are we were more disruptive than anyone because my kids were the
youngest members there. Overall, I really enjoyed taking the class and learned
a lot, which my kids then picked up at home while I was practicing. So I
think it was a positive experience overall, for us. But I don't know that my
friend will ever offer another class again.>>
I have been thinking about classes a lot lately. My oldest daughter
currently takes ballet in a group with other teens and adults and voice in a private
lesson. She has also studied violin, both privately and in a group off and on,
since she was 3. My other 5 kids have never taken any formal lessons with
the exception of Antonio playing Pop Warner football one year.
I often feel guilty that I don't have enough money for all of my kids to take
lessons in a lot of things right now. I'm starting to let it go because I
realize that although some of them have expressed interest in classes, I was
usually the one who brought lessons up and made them seem great. I'm starting to
realize that I was the one who always wanted to take all these lessons, and
that right now, I am the one who should probably take them if we can afford it.
I've always felt guilty spending money on lessons for me. I've thought that
I owed it to my kids to give them all these advantages. Now I've realized
that I really need to listen to what they want and not my expectations of what
would be fun for them. Right now, Emily teaches ballet to Antonio, Paige,
JoAnn, and me a couple of times a week, very informally, and that is probably
enough of that for now. If they want lessons in the future, we'll work it out.
For now, if I want to learn something and I can't teach myself, I'm going to
invest our money in my learning. Then if my children express an interest, I
will be able to show them what I learned without the structure and challenges of
more formal learning situations.
--Jacqueline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
You might find a way in by becoming a doula. Usually it is an apprentice
situation for the learning.
Robyn L. Coburn
<<evidence of a certain level of expertise, which means training and
certification (which in itself would cost *me* quite a bit of money)
and the classes would need to cover a range of things that I am not
necessarily interested in teaching about>>
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situation for the learning.
Robyn L. Coburn
<<evidence of a certain level of expertise, which means training and
certification (which in itself would cost *me* quite a bit of money)
and the classes would need to cover a range of things that I am not
necessarily interested in teaching about>>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/18/2004 4:44:54 PM Central Standard Time,
danielle.conger@... writes:
here at least not in the sense I am seeing so much of these days. I think it's
great for those who want it but my kids have always resisted anything that felt
like school. But they will do very short term things and they will try things
that are not age segregated. My 16yro and I did a weekend airbrush body tattoo
workshop together this past fall and then my 12yros and husband took a one
day airbrush class.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
danielle.conger@... writes:
> I think it's tough to offer a class to unschoolers.I guess I wasn't thinking of classes so much, we are not big class people
here at least not in the sense I am seeing so much of these days. I think it's
great for those who want it but my kids have always resisted anything that felt
like school. But they will do very short term things and they will try things
that are not age segregated. My 16yro and I did a weekend airbrush body tattoo
workshop together this past fall and then my 12yros and husband took a one
day airbrush class.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Inna Manni
Hi Linda,
I have also considered teaching childbirth ed. I have taken a class a
few years ago to be a doula and one of my teachers was a childbirth
educator as well as a doula, so I got to sit in on one of her
classes. Then when I was pregnant I spent all my time studying for
the birth. I feel like I know a lot. I cannot do it yet because my
daughter is only two, but as she gets older I think it would be good
for her if she got to be around classes like that.
What I know about my teacher's practice: she started out as a Bradley
instructor but by the time I met her she had decided that she did not
agree with everything this method teaches. So she did not renew her
certification, but was teaching from her own 'curriculum'. The class
I attended has 5 couples and she charged $100 a couple.
I have talked 'business issues' to other doulas and childbirth
educators, and it seems that while being compensated is a nice perk,
the big thing also is respect. A lot of couples will sign up for
class and then never go, unless they spent money. And same with
doulas - if the client didn't pay, there is a good chance that they
will not evel call you for the birth.
I know how it can feel really strange asking to be paid for something
you'd do for free, and asking actual people and not a company. But I
think at least a symbolic charge is necessary in order for you to be
respected.
Inna - IL
--- eaglefalconlark <eaglefalconlark@...> wrote:
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
I have also considered teaching childbirth ed. I have taken a class a
few years ago to be a doula and one of my teachers was a childbirth
educator as well as a doula, so I got to sit in on one of her
classes. Then when I was pregnant I spent all my time studying for
the birth. I feel like I know a lot. I cannot do it yet because my
daughter is only two, but as she gets older I think it would be good
for her if she got to be around classes like that.
What I know about my teacher's practice: she started out as a Bradley
instructor but by the time I met her she had decided that she did not
agree with everything this method teaches. So she did not renew her
certification, but was teaching from her own 'curriculum'. The class
I attended has 5 couples and she charged $100 a couple.
I have talked 'business issues' to other doulas and childbirth
educators, and it seems that while being compensated is a nice perk,
the big thing also is respect. A lot of couples will sign up for
class and then never go, unless they spent money. And same with
doulas - if the client didn't pay, there is a good chance that they
will not evel call you for the birth.
I know how it can feel really strange asking to be paid for something
you'd do for free, and asking actual people and not a company. But I
think at least a symbolic charge is necessary in order for you to be
respected.
Inna - IL
--- eaglefalconlark <eaglefalconlark@...> wrote:
> because of a__________________________________
> desire to help people with knowledge and skills that I have, I have
>
> known for a long time that I would like to teach childbirth
> education. And be compensated for it of course. Yet money creates
> problems with my vision on many levels.
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus