Input please! (LONG)
Elizabeth Roberts
I've been having a conversation via email with my mother today about our homeschooling. It started when she asked me to have Sarah write out a letter or thank you note for the Christmas presents. I wrote her back that Sarah would be happy to, although she prefers to type rather than write by hand so I wanted her to have a head's up about that. My mother wrote back saying "Sarah is 9 and needs to be hand writing things. I will
send a written letter back when she hand writes a letter to me. Its a requirement in life, and I'm a good one for her to practice on. If she was in school, she would have to hand write everything every day, I think she needs to be doing what she would have to do in
school."
I wrote back "Actually, she'll be 8 in March! Sarah does write by hand when
she wants to...she just prefers to type. She decided she wants to write
it by hand so she's working on it right now. I'll let her know that you will
write her back!
I'm not clear though on just what you think is a requirement in
life? Clear handwriting? The ability to properly format a handwritten or
typed letter, or the ability to communicate clearly/effectively through written
language? All can be easily learned when ready, and with ease when the
interest is there."
And I asked her to tell me exactly what her concerns are so that we can discuss what we're doing and how so that she better understands where we're at, where we're going, and how we plan to get there.
She wrote back that her concerns are much deeper than hand writing papers. I then said that I'm not trying to be argumentative I just want to clarify her concerns and address them, whether or not she comes to agree with our methods.
She wrote back that she's not trying to antagonize me either, but that "I just expect some traditional educational goals because I know she's going to need them."
SOOOO...
Now I'm looking to write out some goals for them...yet we don't exactly HAVE any, at least not in the sense that she's looking for!
Any ideas?!
MamaBeth
Why not?!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
send a written letter back when she hand writes a letter to me. Its a requirement in life, and I'm a good one for her to practice on. If she was in school, she would have to hand write everything every day, I think she needs to be doing what she would have to do in
school."
I wrote back "Actually, she'll be 8 in March! Sarah does write by hand when
she wants to...she just prefers to type. She decided she wants to write
it by hand so she's working on it right now. I'll let her know that you will
write her back!
I'm not clear though on just what you think is a requirement in
life? Clear handwriting? The ability to properly format a handwritten or
typed letter, or the ability to communicate clearly/effectively through written
language? All can be easily learned when ready, and with ease when the
interest is there."
And I asked her to tell me exactly what her concerns are so that we can discuss what we're doing and how so that she better understands where we're at, where we're going, and how we plan to get there.
She wrote back that her concerns are much deeper than hand writing papers. I then said that I'm not trying to be argumentative I just want to clarify her concerns and address them, whether or not she comes to agree with our methods.
She wrote back that she's not trying to antagonize me either, but that "I just expect some traditional educational goals because I know she's going to need them."
SOOOO...
Now I'm looking to write out some goals for them...yet we don't exactly HAVE any, at least not in the sense that she's looking for!
Any ideas?!
MamaBeth
Why not?!
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly
My question would be.....and I say this sweetly!!....why is your daughter's education any of your mother's business?
It's not up to her to 'expect some traditional educational goals'. That's not her place and, in my opinion, she's overstepping her bounds by a mile.
My MIL doesn't agree with homeschooling and she has made that quite clear. She doesn't even understand unschooling. I put my foot down years ago and said, "These are my children. They are not your children. How they are parented and schooled is between myself and my husband and is none of your business."
It has not come up for discussion since (but for 6 or 7 years, it was a constant source of disagreement and argument until I just had enough and 'blew up').
I wouldn't make my child write thank you notes, handwritten, typed or otherwise. And for my mother to expect it in order to write to her own grandchildren (as in an 'or else' ultimatum) wouldn't go over very big with me!
I wouldn't type up goals just for your mother's benefit. She raised her children. You're raising yours.
Sorry if it seems blunt!! I'm not fussing at you....honestly! I have just been there, personally, and I no longer jump through anyone else's hoops!
Kelly
"One day you'll wake up and realize you wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library." - Good Will Hunting
It's not up to her to 'expect some traditional educational goals'. That's not her place and, in my opinion, she's overstepping her bounds by a mile.
My MIL doesn't agree with homeschooling and she has made that quite clear. She doesn't even understand unschooling. I put my foot down years ago and said, "These are my children. They are not your children. How they are parented and schooled is between myself and my husband and is none of your business."
It has not come up for discussion since (but for 6 or 7 years, it was a constant source of disagreement and argument until I just had enough and 'blew up').
I wouldn't make my child write thank you notes, handwritten, typed or otherwise. And for my mother to expect it in order to write to her own grandchildren (as in an 'or else' ultimatum) wouldn't go over very big with me!
I wouldn't type up goals just for your mother's benefit. She raised her children. You're raising yours.
Sorry if it seems blunt!! I'm not fussing at you....honestly! I have just been there, personally, and I no longer jump through anyone else's hoops!
Kelly
"One day you'll wake up and realize you wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library." - Good Will Hunting
----- Original Message -----
From: Elizabeth Roberts
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 7:06 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Input please! (LONG)
She wrote back that she's not trying to antagonize me either, but that "I just expect some traditional educational goals because I know she's going to need them."
SOOOO...
Now I'm looking to write out some goals for them...yet we don't exactly HAVE any, at least not in the sense that she's looking for!
Any ideas?!
MamaBeth
Why not?!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wife2Vegman
--- Elizabeth Roberts <mamabethuscg@...> wrote:
have to ask for this?
You're 28, married and a mother yourself. She has no
authority, legally or otherwise (I'm thinking not even
morally/biblically here).
You really don't need another person telling you that
you have to do something, or that you must adjust to
their frame of reference!
You did really well with the E.I. visit today. I
would give your mom the same answer if you have to
tell her something. Don't try to make unschooling
sound like traditional schooling just to please her.
Your goals are so much more OTHER than the low
standards of traditional schooling that to try to
explain them that way would be a disservice to you and
your daughter.
Give your mom the same websites and book titles you
gave the social workers, and tell her that when she
has read them thoroughly, you will discuss it with
her.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
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>My first idea is WHY? What authority does your mom
> She wrote back that she's not trying to antagonize
> me either, but that "I just expect some traditional
> educational goals because I know she's going to need
> them."
>
> SOOOO...
>
> Now I'm looking to write out some goals for
> them...yet we don't exactly HAVE any, at least not
> in the sense that she's looking for!
>
> Any ideas?!
>
> MamaBeth
have to ask for this?
You're 28, married and a mother yourself. She has no
authority, legally or otherwise (I'm thinking not even
morally/biblically here).
You really don't need another person telling you that
you have to do something, or that you must adjust to
their frame of reference!
You did really well with the E.I. visit today. I
would give your mom the same answer if you have to
tell her something. Don't try to make unschooling
sound like traditional schooling just to please her.
Your goals are so much more OTHER than the low
standards of traditional schooling that to try to
explain them that way would be a disservice to you and
your daughter.
Give your mom the same websites and book titles you
gave the social workers, and tell her that when she
has read them thoroughly, you will discuss it with
her.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
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J. Stauffer
<<<< Now I'm looking to write out some goals for them...yet we don't exactly
HAVE any, at least not in the sense that she's looking for!
Yes. Blow it off.
mamabeth, I think we are back to the boundaries issue.
Julie S.
HAVE any, at least not in the sense that she's looking for!
>********************************************
> Any ideas?!>>>>>
Yes. Blow it off.
mamabeth, I think we are back to the boundaries issue.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Roberts" <mamabethuscg@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 6:06 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Input please! (LONG)
> I've been having a conversation via email with my mother today about our
homeschooling. It started when she asked me to have Sarah write out a letter
or thank you note for the Christmas presents. I wrote her back that Sarah
would be happy to, although she prefers to type rather than write by hand so
I wanted her to have a head's up about that. My mother wrote back saying
"Sarah is 9 and needs to be hand writing things. I will
> send a written letter back when she hand writes a letter to me. Its a
requirement in life, and I'm a good one for her to practice on. If she was
in school, she would have to hand write everything every day, I think she
needs to be doing what she would have to do in
> school."
>
> I wrote back "Actually, she'll be 8 in March! Sarah does write by hand
when
> she wants to...she just prefers to type. She decided she wants to write
> it by hand so she's working on it right now. I'll let her know that you
will
> write her back!
>
> I'm not clear though on just what you think is a requirement in
> life? Clear handwriting? The ability to properly format a handwritten or
> typed letter, or the ability to communicate clearly/effectively through
written
> language? All can be easily learned when ready, and with ease when the
> interest is there."
>
> And I asked her to tell me exactly what her concerns are so that we can
discuss what we're doing and how so that she better understands where we're
at, where we're going, and how we plan to get there.
>
> She wrote back that her concerns are much deeper than hand writing papers.
I then said that I'm not trying to be argumentative I just want to clarify
her concerns and address them, whether or not she comes to agree with our
methods.
>
> She wrote back that she's not trying to antagonize me either, but that "I
just expect some traditional educational goals because I know she's going to
need them."
>
> SOOOO...
>
>>
> MamaBeth
>
>
> Why not?!
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
liza sabater
On Tuesday, January 13, 2004, at 07:06 PM, Elizabeth Roberts wrote:
and allowing them to trample all over privacy.
them your kids? it would be more productive if they were involved in
the process. like this year evan wants to be able to jumpkick his
skateboard. he also wants to be able to read by himself the questions
on the game, Star Wars: Knights of the Republic. Aidan says he wants to
learn how to write his name (because Evan knows how to).
her. you just don't want to because you fear antagonizing her.
still, i believe you already answered your own question.
l i z a
=========================
www.culturekitchen.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Now I'm looking to write out some goals for them...them your mom? here's an example of bowing to other people's demands
and allowing them to trample all over privacy.
them your kids? it would be more productive if they were involved in
the process. like this year evan wants to be able to jumpkick his
skateboard. he also wants to be able to read by himself the questions
on the game, Star Wars: Knights of the Republic. Aidan says he wants to
learn how to write his name (because Evan knows how to).
> yet we don't exactly HAVE any, at least not in the sense that she'syou answered your own question. you know what you would like to tell
> looking for!
her. you just don't want to because you fear antagonizing her.
still, i believe you already answered your own question.
l i z a
=========================
www.culturekitchen.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lyle W.
~~Now I'm looking to write out some goals for them...yet we don't exactly HAVE any, at least not in the sense that she's looking for!
Any ideas?!
MamaBeth~~
Goals for what? To make grandma happy? If that's what you mean, I let that one fly out the window years ago. Grandma's happiness is up to her, not you or your kids. If being yourselves isn't good enough, then what will be? She said that she "knows" your daughter is going to need "goals", but how can she possibly know what your daughter is going to do with her life? It sounds like grandma has some pretty high expectations (and I'm guessing she will just keep raising the bar), and depending on your daughter's personality, that could lead to disaster. I stay away from expectations for my kids. Too much potential for disappointment and discouragement.
I want my kids to be themselves, to believe in themselves and to trust their own judgement. That's as far as my "expectations" go.
~~"I just expect some traditional educational goals because I know she's going to need them."~~
That statement alone would be more than enough for me to have a long..."talk" with grandma. What grandma expects is irrelavant. I would let her know that. (Keep in mind that I am very blunt and to the point when it comes to my kids.) My FIL (and the rest of my inlaws) had this same attitude when we first started out. It came down to me making it very clear that if their attitudes didn't change, they would see a lot less of us. Grandpa has rarely ever mentioned anything about schooling or education since then. He has even expressed how impressed he is with my boys after seeing the 'results' of our choices.
I wouldn't bother with grandma's list of goals, but that's just me. If anything, let your daughter make the list herself. If that's not good enough...too bad.
I don't go out of my way to make someone else happy, regardless of who it is, if they don't bother trying to understand what we're doing. Let grandma put out a little effort on changing the way she looks at things. SHE needs to try to change, not you or your daughter. Her concerns may be honest and heartfelt, but her methods could use a little tweaking.
Lyle
(If I misread your post, and this is not what grandma was meaning, then just disregard this, lol.)
***Always remember, Lead By Example***
--
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Any ideas?!
MamaBeth~~
Goals for what? To make grandma happy? If that's what you mean, I let that one fly out the window years ago. Grandma's happiness is up to her, not you or your kids. If being yourselves isn't good enough, then what will be? She said that she "knows" your daughter is going to need "goals", but how can she possibly know what your daughter is going to do with her life? It sounds like grandma has some pretty high expectations (and I'm guessing she will just keep raising the bar), and depending on your daughter's personality, that could lead to disaster. I stay away from expectations for my kids. Too much potential for disappointment and discouragement.
I want my kids to be themselves, to believe in themselves and to trust their own judgement. That's as far as my "expectations" go.
~~"I just expect some traditional educational goals because I know she's going to need them."~~
That statement alone would be more than enough for me to have a long..."talk" with grandma. What grandma expects is irrelavant. I would let her know that. (Keep in mind that I am very blunt and to the point when it comes to my kids.) My FIL (and the rest of my inlaws) had this same attitude when we first started out. It came down to me making it very clear that if their attitudes didn't change, they would see a lot less of us. Grandpa has rarely ever mentioned anything about schooling or education since then. He has even expressed how impressed he is with my boys after seeing the 'results' of our choices.
I wouldn't bother with grandma's list of goals, but that's just me. If anything, let your daughter make the list herself. If that's not good enough...too bad.
I don't go out of my way to make someone else happy, regardless of who it is, if they don't bother trying to understand what we're doing. Let grandma put out a little effort on changing the way she looks at things. SHE needs to try to change, not you or your daughter. Her concerns may be honest and heartfelt, but her methods could use a little tweaking.
Lyle
(If I misread your post, and this is not what grandma was meaning, then just disregard this, lol.)
***Always remember, Lead By Example***
--
___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
Elizabeth Roberts
Julie,
Yes..after I sent that, as I was sitting here thinking about it, I was thinking "Now wait a sec...I don't really have much else to say that I didn't ALREADY say in my letter explaining our decision to homeschool and discussing unschooling!" I just went and reread that letter, having kept a copy of it, and I still don't think I have much else to say really.
I don't know if my mother is truly wanting to know more of what we're doing or if this is just another way for her to tell me that she doesn't approve of my choices regarding my life; and another way for her to tell me (as she has before!!!) that she thinks I'm a bad parent.
So for now, I'm not going to answer my mom unless she has specific concerns such as about Sarah's writing. I already addressed that, but I don't think she "heard" me address her concerns because of the way she later said her concerns were "more" than writing.
I could be wrong about it...but I don't know...and yes, my own mother is one of the most toxic people in my life!!!! I try to keep contact with her to a bare minimum because of it, but it isn't easy.
SIGH..!
I don't need this right now so I'm just going to put it aside unless she brings it up again!!
MamaBeth
"J. Stauffer" <jnjstau@...> wrote:
<<<< Now I'm looking to write out some goals for them...yet we don't exactly
HAVE any, at least not in the sense that she's looking for!
Yes. Blow it off.
mamabeth, I think we are back to the boundaries issue.
Julie S.
Yes..after I sent that, as I was sitting here thinking about it, I was thinking "Now wait a sec...I don't really have much else to say that I didn't ALREADY say in my letter explaining our decision to homeschool and discussing unschooling!" I just went and reread that letter, having kept a copy of it, and I still don't think I have much else to say really.
I don't know if my mother is truly wanting to know more of what we're doing or if this is just another way for her to tell me that she doesn't approve of my choices regarding my life; and another way for her to tell me (as she has before!!!) that she thinks I'm a bad parent.
So for now, I'm not going to answer my mom unless she has specific concerns such as about Sarah's writing. I already addressed that, but I don't think she "heard" me address her concerns because of the way she later said her concerns were "more" than writing.
I could be wrong about it...but I don't know...and yes, my own mother is one of the most toxic people in my life!!!! I try to keep contact with her to a bare minimum because of it, but it isn't easy.
SIGH..!
I don't need this right now so I'm just going to put it aside unless she brings it up again!!
MamaBeth
"J. Stauffer" <jnjstau@...> wrote:
<<<< Now I'm looking to write out some goals for them...yet we don't exactly
HAVE any, at least not in the sense that she's looking for!
>********************************************
> Any ideas?!>>>>>
Yes. Blow it off.
mamabeth, I think we are back to the boundaries issue.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Roberts" <mamabethuscg@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 6:06 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Input please! (LONG)
> I've been having a conversation via email with my mother today about our
homeschooling. It started when she asked me to have Sarah write out a letter
or thank you note for the Christmas presents. I wrote her back that Sarah
would be happy to, although she prefers to type rather than write by hand so
I wanted her to have a head's up about that. My mother wrote back saying
"Sarah is 9 and needs to be hand writing things. I will
> send a written letter back when she hand writes a letter to me. Its a
requirement in life, and I'm a good one for her to practice on. If she was
in school, she would have to hand write everything every day, I think she
needs to be doing what she would have to do in
> school."
>
> I wrote back "Actually, she'll be 8 in March! Sarah does write by hand
when
> she wants to...she just prefers to type. She decided she wants to write
> it by hand so she's working on it right now. I'll let her know that you
will
> write her back!
>
> I'm not clear though on just what you think is a requirement in
> life? Clear handwriting? The ability to properly format a handwritten or
> typed letter, or the ability to communicate clearly/effectively through
written
> language? All can be easily learned when ready, and with ease when the
> interest is there."
>
> And I asked her to tell me exactly what her concerns are so that we can
discuss what we're doing and how so that she better understands where we're
at, where we're going, and how we plan to get there.
>
> She wrote back that her concerns are much deeper than hand writing papers.
I then said that I'm not trying to be argumentative I just want to clarify
her concerns and address them, whether or not she comes to agree with our
methods.
>
> She wrote back that she's not trying to antagonize me either, but that "I
just expect some traditional educational goals because I know she's going to
need them."
>
> SOOOO...
>
>>
> MamaBeth
>
>
> Why not?!
>
> ---------------------------------
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> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
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>
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>
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[email protected]
In a message dated 1/13/2004 6:10:10 PM Central Standard Time,
mamabethuscg@... writes:
expectations? Granted, she is the grandmother and shares concern but this is
your DD and unless she is helping raise them I don't understand why you need to
meet her expectations.
But maybe it's just that I'm an old Mom and am just way past caring what my
Mom thinks. I love her but she don't live here.
Laura Buoni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamabethuscg@... writes:
> She wrote back that she's not trying to antagonize me either, but that "IOK, I'm curious, respectfully so, but why does your mother have the right to
> just expect some traditional educational goals because I know she's going to
> need them."
>
expectations? Granted, she is the grandmother and shares concern but this is
your DD and unless she is helping raise them I don't understand why you need to
meet her expectations.
But maybe it's just that I'm an old Mom and am just way past caring what my
Mom thinks. I love her but she don't live here.
Laura Buoni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
catherine aceto
Now I'm looking to write out some goals for them...yet we don't exactly HAVE any, at least not in the sense that she's looking for!
Any ideas?!
MamaBeth
****************************
Your mother (who apparently doesn't even know the age of your child) completely misunderstands the entire process of unschooling and now to please her you are going to spend time thinking of goals for your kids? Tell her politely but firmly that you don't agree or find it necessary.
I'm trying to say this in the kindest of all possible ways -- MamaBeth, you seem to spend a lot of time letting other people steer your boat. I say toss 'em all overboard!!
-Cat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Any ideas?!
MamaBeth
****************************
Your mother (who apparently doesn't even know the age of your child) completely misunderstands the entire process of unschooling and now to please her you are going to spend time thinking of goals for your kids? Tell her politely but firmly that you don't agree or find it necessary.
I'm trying to say this in the kindest of all possible ways -- MamaBeth, you seem to spend a lot of time letting other people steer your boat. I say toss 'em all overboard!!
-Cat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Roberts
Yeah, pretty awful isn't it? Took me four years just to get her to understand Sarah's favorite color is green! SIGH! Don't know if you missed it but I responded to someone earlier and said that I'd been thinking about it and am just not going to respond to her right now....I've got too much going on to worry about what my mother is thinking when she's not even trying to truly listen to me!
MamaBeth
catherine aceto <aceto3@...> wrote:
Now I'm looking to write out some goals for them...yet we don't exactly HAVE any, at least not in the sense that she's looking for!
Any ideas?!
MamaBeth
****************************
Your mother (who apparently doesn't even know the age of your child) completely misunderstands the entire process of unschooling and now to please her you are going to spend time thinking of goals for your kids? Tell her politely but firmly that you don't agree or find it necessary.
I'm trying to say this in the kindest of all possible ways -- MamaBeth, you seem to spend a lot of time letting other people steer your boat. I say toss 'em all overboard!!
-Cat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
MamaBeth
catherine aceto <aceto3@...> wrote:
Now I'm looking to write out some goals for them...yet we don't exactly HAVE any, at least not in the sense that she's looking for!
Any ideas?!
MamaBeth
****************************
Your mother (who apparently doesn't even know the age of your child) completely misunderstands the entire process of unschooling and now to please her you are going to spend time thinking of goals for your kids? Tell her politely but firmly that you don't agree or find it necessary.
I'm trying to say this in the kindest of all possible ways -- MamaBeth, you seem to spend a lot of time letting other people steer your boat. I say toss 'em all overboard!!
-Cat
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Dawn Adams
Mamabeth writes:
You have your hands full Mamabeth, full to overflowing and don't need to add a pushy mom to that mix. Give her book titles and websites. Tell her you and Paul have made your decision and if she's concerned she needs to research it herself. You don't have time.
I know it's hard because I have the same troubles with boundaries. What helps is drawing up the lines in my head BEFORE I go into any conversation with someone where I know boundaries could be crossed. If you're on the phone or writing letters, that's to your advantage because you can have your boundaries written down in front of you as a constant reminder. And if you don't know where those boundaries should be, certainly keep asking. After years of not enforcing them it's sometimes hard to even know where they should be. Good Luck.
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>She wrote back that she's not trying to antagonize me either, but that "I just expect >some traditional educational goals because I know she's going to need them."Here's an example of what your mother should be saying from my very concerned-about-homeschooling MIL, "You guys know I don't like this but really, you're the parents so I can't tell you what to do."
You have your hands full Mamabeth, full to overflowing and don't need to add a pushy mom to that mix. Give her book titles and websites. Tell her you and Paul have made your decision and if she's concerned she needs to research it herself. You don't have time.
I know it's hard because I have the same troubles with boundaries. What helps is drawing up the lines in my head BEFORE I go into any conversation with someone where I know boundaries could be crossed. If you're on the phone or writing letters, that's to your advantage because you can have your boundaries written down in front of you as a constant reminder. And if you don't know where those boundaries should be, certainly keep asking. After years of not enforcing them it's sometimes hard to even know where they should be. Good Luck.
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dawn Adams
Mamabeth writes:
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I don't need this right now so I'm just going to put it aside unless she brings it up >again!!Even if she does bring it up or brings up Sarah's handwriting use what you just said, "Mom, I don't need this right now. I've got kids to look after, a house to run and myself to take care of. If you're so concerned about my children, go do some research on your own on this issue because I've done a ton and don't appreciate explaining the most basic things when you're perfectly capable of reading up on it yourself." Maybe That's too snotty for you. :) At least stick to the first two sentences and make it clear that NOTHING regarding their education is up for discussion and debate. If she were truly concerned, she'd be using her library card, not you.
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Roberts
Kelly,
Don't worry..it's alright! I'm getting there with the boundaries/no hoops thing...Sarah had no problem with writing to my mother, she's excited that Grandma will write her back so she'll be getting REAL MAIL! LOL
MamaBeth
Kelly <apmomto4@...> wrote:
My question would be.....and I say this sweetly!!....why is your daughter's education any of your mother's business?
It's not up to her to 'expect some traditional educational goals'. That's not her place and, in my opinion, she's overstepping her bounds by a mile.
My MIL doesn't agree with homeschooling and she has made that quite clear. She doesn't even understand unschooling. I put my foot down years ago and said, "These are my children. They are not your children. How they are parented and schooled is between myself and my husband and is none of your business."
It has not come up for discussion since (but for 6 or 7 years, it was a constant source of disagreement and argument until I just had enough and 'blew up').
I wouldn't make my child write thank you notes, handwritten, typed or otherwise. And for my mother to expect it in order to write to her own grandchildren (as in an 'or else' ultimatum) wouldn't go over very big with me!
I wouldn't type up goals just for your mother's benefit. She raised her children. You're raising yours.
Sorry if it seems blunt!! I'm not fussing at you....honestly! I have just been there, personally, and I no longer jump through anyone else's hoops!
Kelly
"One day you'll wake up and realize you wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library." - Good Will Hunting
Don't worry..it's alright! I'm getting there with the boundaries/no hoops thing...Sarah had no problem with writing to my mother, she's excited that Grandma will write her back so she'll be getting REAL MAIL! LOL
MamaBeth
Kelly <apmomto4@...> wrote:
My question would be.....and I say this sweetly!!....why is your daughter's education any of your mother's business?
It's not up to her to 'expect some traditional educational goals'. That's not her place and, in my opinion, she's overstepping her bounds by a mile.
My MIL doesn't agree with homeschooling and she has made that quite clear. She doesn't even understand unschooling. I put my foot down years ago and said, "These are my children. They are not your children. How they are parented and schooled is between myself and my husband and is none of your business."
It has not come up for discussion since (but for 6 or 7 years, it was a constant source of disagreement and argument until I just had enough and 'blew up').
I wouldn't make my child write thank you notes, handwritten, typed or otherwise. And for my mother to expect it in order to write to her own grandchildren (as in an 'or else' ultimatum) wouldn't go over very big with me!
I wouldn't type up goals just for your mother's benefit. She raised her children. You're raising yours.
Sorry if it seems blunt!! I'm not fussing at you....honestly! I have just been there, personally, and I no longer jump through anyone else's hoops!
Kelly
"One day you'll wake up and realize you wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library." - Good Will Hunting
----- Original Message -----
From: Elizabeth Roberts
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 7:06 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Input please! (LONG)
She wrote back that she's not trying to antagonize me either, but that "I just expect some traditional educational goals because I know she's going to need them."
SOOOO...
Now I'm looking to write out some goals for them...yet we don't exactly HAVE any, at least not in the sense that she's looking for!
Any ideas?!
MamaBeth
Why not?!
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pam sorooshian
Beth - kids around her age often really DO like to get mail and that
can get them writing a bit, which is nice. Since this is a happenin'
thing in your house - you might as well go all the way <G> and get her
a shoebox or other box, let her decorate it, cut some paper into
smaller sheets, get some little envelopes, and let her decorate those
for her own personal stationary (water color paints work well to make
stationary - you can write right over the background). Get her some
rubber stamps, some stickers, and if you want to go ALL out - a sealing
wax set.
There are calligraphy pens that are very cheap. You could get a quill
and ink for her. You could even make some stationary on the computer
with her name on the top. You can order pencils with a kid's name on
them.
AND - she can have her own mailbox somewhere in the house - and YOU and
your husband can write her letters and put them in there for her to
find.
If she likes some of this - then make a mailbox inside the house for
yourselves too - so she can write to you.
My girls even sometimes played that one was the mail delivery person -
they'd carry a big bag on their back and stick decorated boxes with
their own toys in them and deliver them to each other, getting a
signature to verify delivery (little ones who couldn't even write at
all just scribbled something very elaborate looking <G>).
At 12, 16, and 19 they still mail quite a few letters to friends - and
they are collaged on the outside. And my 19 yo and her friends mail
what they call "packets" to each other - a box filled with cheap things
that are meaningful or funny - nothing expensive, but they just LOVE to
get "packets" from each other. Collaging the outside of the box is half
of the fun.
-pam
can get them writing a bit, which is nice. Since this is a happenin'
thing in your house - you might as well go all the way <G> and get her
a shoebox or other box, let her decorate it, cut some paper into
smaller sheets, get some little envelopes, and let her decorate those
for her own personal stationary (water color paints work well to make
stationary - you can write right over the background). Get her some
rubber stamps, some stickers, and if you want to go ALL out - a sealing
wax set.
There are calligraphy pens that are very cheap. You could get a quill
and ink for her. You could even make some stationary on the computer
with her name on the top. You can order pencils with a kid's name on
them.
AND - she can have her own mailbox somewhere in the house - and YOU and
your husband can write her letters and put them in there for her to
find.
If she likes some of this - then make a mailbox inside the house for
yourselves too - so she can write to you.
My girls even sometimes played that one was the mail delivery person -
they'd carry a big bag on their back and stick decorated boxes with
their own toys in them and deliver them to each other, getting a
signature to verify delivery (little ones who couldn't even write at
all just scribbled something very elaborate looking <G>).
At 12, 16, and 19 they still mail quite a few letters to friends - and
they are collaged on the outside. And my 19 yo and her friends mail
what they call "packets" to each other - a box filled with cheap things
that are meaningful or funny - nothing expensive, but they just LOVE to
get "packets" from each other. Collaging the outside of the box is half
of the fun.
-pam
On Jan 14, 2004, at 6:02 AM, Elizabeth Roberts wrote:
> Don't worry..it's alright! I'm getting there with the boundaries/no
> hoops thing...Sarah had no problem with writing to my mother, she's
> excited that Grandma will write her back so she'll be getting REAL
> MAIL! LOL
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
[email protected]
-=-I think she needs to be doing what she would have to do in
school."
<<I wrote back "Actually, she'll be 8 in March! -=-
Very telling that she's way off on her age but KNOWS what she needs to be
doing.
<< "I just expect some traditional educational goals because I know she's
going to need them.">>
Your mom got to choose how YOU were educated. Did she choose? Or did she
just go with the public school flow? That's a choice, too--not to choose.
But she does NOT get to choose how you choose now that you're a mother.
<<Now I'm looking to write out some goals for them...yet we don't exactly
HAVE any, at least not in the sense that she's looking for!
<<Any ideas?!>>
Well...
Don't spend time on your mother than could be better spent with your
children. Put her on the "later if I have time list too" if she's trying to get you
to jump through hoops to please her. You have a job to do, and that's to
spend time face to face, smiling, with each of your children as much as you can.
Sandra
school."
<<I wrote back "Actually, she'll be 8 in March! -=-
Very telling that she's way off on her age but KNOWS what she needs to be
doing.
<< "I just expect some traditional educational goals because I know she's
going to need them.">>
Your mom got to choose how YOU were educated. Did she choose? Or did she
just go with the public school flow? That's a choice, too--not to choose.
But she does NOT get to choose how you choose now that you're a mother.
<<Now I'm looking to write out some goals for them...yet we don't exactly
HAVE any, at least not in the sense that she's looking for!
<<Any ideas?!>>
Well...
Don't spend time on your mother than could be better spent with your
children. Put her on the "later if I have time list too" if she's trying to get you
to jump through hoops to please her. You have a job to do, and that's to
spend time face to face, smiling, with each of your children as much as you can.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/14/04 1:18:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
Sandra. You get to be a parent now, she had her chance.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Your mom got to choose how YOU were educated. Did she choose? Or did sheThat is exactly what I was going to say, although you say it so much better
> just go with the public school flow? That's a choice, too--not to choose.
>
> But she does NOT get to choose how you choose now that you're a mother.
>
>
Sandra. You get to be a parent now, she had her chance.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>I've been having a conversation via email with my mother today about ourThis is telling. I have to wonder about a grandmother who is so sure about
>homeschooling. It started when she asked me to have Sarah write out a
>letter or thank you note for the Christmas presents. I wrote her back that
>Sarah would be happy to, although she prefers to type rather than write by
>hand so I wanted her to have a head's up about that. My mother wrote back
>saying "Sarah is 9 and needs to be hand writing things. I will
>send a written letter back when she hand writes a letter to me. Its a
>requirement in life, and I'm a good one for her to practice on. If she
>was in school, she would have to hand write everything every day, I think
>she needs to be doing what she would have to do in
>school."
>
>I wrote back "Actually, she'll be 8 in March!
what her grandchild needs but doesn't even remember how old she is.
Tia
Tia Leschke
>Wouldn't this put the girl in a position of trying to please a grandma that
>I wouldn't bother with grandma's list of goals, but that's just me. If
>anything, let your daughter make the list herself. If that's not good
>enough...too bad.
won't be pleased? If she want to make a list of goals for her own purposes,
fine, but I would discourage her from showing them to the grandma. It
really isn't her business.
Tia
Tia Leschke
>Even more reason to keep contact to a minimum with your daughter, and that
>
>So for now, I'm not going to answer my mom unless she has specific
>concerns such as about Sarah's writing. I already addressed that, but I
>don't think she "heard" me address her concerns because of the way she
>later said her concerns were "more" than writing.
>
>I could be wrong about it...but I don't know...and yes, my own mother is
>one of the most toxic people in my life!!!! I try to keep contact with her
>to a bare minimum because of it, but it isn't easy.
includes discussions about the way you're raising and educating her. The
grandma has had her chance to raise children.
>Even if she *does* bring it up again, it's still not her decision to make.
>SIGH..!
>
>I don't need this right now so I'm just going to put it aside unless she
>brings it up again!!
It's yours. She's crossing boundaries, probably because you're not setting
them.
Tia
Fetteroll
on 1/13/04 7:06 PM, Elizabeth Roberts at mamabethuscg@... wrote:
posted at Unschooling.com message boards. This is the goals the Singapore
Ministry of Education has for its students:
All Post-Secondary and Tertiary Students
Students should :
- be morally upright, be culturally rooted yet understanding and respecting
differences, be responsible to family, community and country
- believe in our principles of multi-racialism and meritocracy, appreciate
the national constraints but see the opportunities
- be constituents of a gracious society
- be willing to strive, take pride in work, value working with others
- be able to think, reason and deal confidently with the future, have
courage and conviction in facing adversity
- be able to seek, process and apply knowledge
- be innovative - have a spirit of continual improvement, a lifelong habit
of learning and an enterprising spirit in undertakings
- think global, but be rooted to Singapore
Potential Leaders should:
- be committed to improving society
- be proactive in surmounting our constraints
- have compassion towards others
- be able to inspire, motivate and draw out the best from others
- be able to forge breakthroughs in a knowledge-based economy
- be able to chart our destiny and lead
- be creative and imaginative
- have the tenacity to fight against the odds and not quit
Joyce
> Now I'm looking to write out some goals for them...yet we don't exactly HAVEThe butt out answers are better! But it reminded me of something someone
> any, at least not in the sense that she's looking for!
posted at Unschooling.com message boards. This is the goals the Singapore
Ministry of Education has for its students:
All Post-Secondary and Tertiary Students
Students should :
- be morally upright, be culturally rooted yet understanding and respecting
differences, be responsible to family, community and country
- believe in our principles of multi-racialism and meritocracy, appreciate
the national constraints but see the opportunities
- be constituents of a gracious society
- be willing to strive, take pride in work, value working with others
- be able to think, reason and deal confidently with the future, have
courage and conviction in facing adversity
- be able to seek, process and apply knowledge
- be innovative - have a spirit of continual improvement, a lifelong habit
of learning and an enterprising spirit in undertakings
- think global, but be rooted to Singapore
Potential Leaders should:
- be committed to improving society
- be proactive in surmounting our constraints
- have compassion towards others
- be able to inspire, motivate and draw out the best from others
- be able to forge breakthroughs in a knowledge-based economy
- be able to chart our destiny and lead
- be creative and imaginative
- have the tenacity to fight against the odds and not quit
Joyce
Elizabeth Roberts
Thanks for the suggestion! We do email with Sarah quite a bit because she prefers that, but this is a good idea.
MamaBeth
pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
Beth - kids around her age often really DO like to get mail and that
can get them writing a bit, which is nice. Since this is a happenin'
thing in your house - you might as well go all the way <G> and get her
a shoebox or other box, let her decorate it, cut some paper into
smaller sheets, get some little envelopes, and let her decorate those
for her own personal stationary (water color paints work well to make
stationary - you can write right over the background). Get her some
rubber stamps, some stickers, and if you want to go ALL out - a sealing
wax set.
There are calligraphy pens that are very cheap. You could get a quill
and ink for her. You could even make some stationary on the computer
with her name on the top. You can order pencils with a kid's name on
them.
AND - she can have her own mailbox somewhere in the house - and YOU and
your husband can write her letters and put them in there for her to
find.
If she likes some of this - then make a mailbox inside the house for
yourselves too - so she can write to you.
My girls even sometimes played that one was the mail delivery person -
they'd carry a big bag on their back and stick decorated boxes with
their own toys in them and deliver them to each other, getting a
signature to verify delivery (little ones who couldn't even write at
all just scribbled something very elaborate looking <G>).
At 12, 16, and 19 they still mail quite a few letters to friends - and
they are collaged on the outside. And my 19 yo and her friends mail
what they call "packets" to each other - a box filled with cheap things
that are meaningful or funny - nothing expensive, but they just LOVE to
get "packets" from each other. Collaging the outside of the box is half
of the fun.
-pam
MamaBeth
pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
Beth - kids around her age often really DO like to get mail and that
can get them writing a bit, which is nice. Since this is a happenin'
thing in your house - you might as well go all the way <G> and get her
a shoebox or other box, let her decorate it, cut some paper into
smaller sheets, get some little envelopes, and let her decorate those
for her own personal stationary (water color paints work well to make
stationary - you can write right over the background). Get her some
rubber stamps, some stickers, and if you want to go ALL out - a sealing
wax set.
There are calligraphy pens that are very cheap. You could get a quill
and ink for her. You could even make some stationary on the computer
with her name on the top. You can order pencils with a kid's name on
them.
AND - she can have her own mailbox somewhere in the house - and YOU and
your husband can write her letters and put them in there for her to
find.
If she likes some of this - then make a mailbox inside the house for
yourselves too - so she can write to you.
My girls even sometimes played that one was the mail delivery person -
they'd carry a big bag on their back and stick decorated boxes with
their own toys in them and deliver them to each other, getting a
signature to verify delivery (little ones who couldn't even write at
all just scribbled something very elaborate looking <G>).
At 12, 16, and 19 they still mail quite a few letters to friends - and
they are collaged on the outside. And my 19 yo and her friends mail
what they call "packets" to each other - a box filled with cheap things
that are meaningful or funny - nothing expensive, but they just LOVE to
get "packets" from each other. Collaging the outside of the box is half
of the fun.
-pam
On Jan 14, 2004, at 6:02 AM, Elizabeth Roberts wrote:
> Don't worry..it's alright! I'm getting there with the boundaries/no
> hoops thing...Sarah had no problem with writing to my mother, she's
> excited that Grandma will write her back so she'll be getting REAL
> MAIL! LOL
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
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To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/14/2004 3:50:48 PM Central Standard Time,
leschke@... writes:
that one at the top of the list!!
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
leschke@... writes:
> Wouldn't this put the girl in a position of trying to please a grandma thatLOL, I just thought of a goal, To set boundaries with family members, put
>
> won't be pleased? If she want to make a list of goals for her own purposes,
> fine, but I would discourage her from showing them to the grandma. It
> really isn't her business.
>
that one at the top of the list!!
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Roberts
I guess I don't notice it so much since I grew up with my mother not noticing exactly what was important to me, etc.
MamaBeth
Tia Leschke <leschke@...> wrote:
what her grandchild needs but doesn't even remember how old she is.
Tia
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
MamaBeth
Tia Leschke <leschke@...> wrote:
>I've been having a conversation via email with my mother today about ourThis is telling. I have to wonder about a grandmother who is so sure about
>homeschooling. It started when she asked me to have Sarah write out a
>letter or thank you note for the Christmas presents. I wrote her back that
>Sarah would be happy to, although she prefers to type rather than write by
>hand so I wanted her to have a head's up about that. My mother wrote back
>saying "Sarah is 9 and needs to be hand writing things. I will
>send a written letter back when she hand writes a letter to me. Its a
>requirement in life, and I'm a good one for her to practice on. If she
>was in school, she would have to hand write everything every day, I think
>she needs to be doing what she would have to do in
>school."
>
>I wrote back "Actually, she'll be 8 in March!
what her grandchild needs but doesn't even remember how old she is.
Tia
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>I guess I don't notice it so much since I grew up with my mother notExactly! And she still isn't.
>noticing exactly what was important to me, etc.
Tia
Tia Leschke
>Be careful with this one. It sounded like Grandma was bribing her. Write to
>Don't worry..it's alright! I'm getting there with the boundaries/no hoops
>thing...Sarah had no problem with writing to my mother, she's excited that
>Grandma will write her back so she'll be getting REAL MAIL! LOL
me in longhand, and I'll write back to you. Next time, she might raise the
bar and expect more, and more, until Sarah is really frustrated. You might
do better to find other kids or relatives or family friends to write to
her, people that will just be glad to get communication from her, not
people who would be "grading" her letters. The last thing you want to do is
set her up to try to please a woman who doesn't sound like she can be pleased.
Tia
Elizabeth Roberts
Good point. I'll suggest that she also write to her other grandparents, who will simply be happy to have a letter and not be looking to compare it to anything their other grandchildren (or "everyone" else) is or has done.
MamaBeth
Tia Leschke <leschke@...> wrote:
me in longhand, and I'll write back to you. Next time, she might raise the
bar and expect more, and more, until Sarah is really frustrated. You might
do better to find other kids or relatives or family friends to write to
her, people that will just be glad to get communication from her, not
people who would be "grading" her letters. The last thing you want to do is
set her up to try to please a woman who doesn't sound like she can be pleased.
Tia
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MamaBeth
Tia Leschke <leschke@...> wrote:
>Be careful with this one. It sounded like Grandma was bribing her. Write to
>Don't worry..it's alright! I'm getting there with the boundaries/no hoops
>thing...Sarah had no problem with writing to my mother, she's excited that
>Grandma will write her back so she'll be getting REAL MAIL! LOL
me in longhand, and I'll write back to you. Next time, she might raise the
bar and expect more, and more, until Sarah is really frustrated. You might
do better to find other kids or relatives or family friends to write to
her, people that will just be glad to get communication from her, not
people who would be "grading" her letters. The last thing you want to do is
set her up to try to please a woman who doesn't sound like she can be pleased.
Tia
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