more from a bad unschooling mother
ameyp_90
I'm the one who originally posted about being a bad homeschooling
mother. I've appreciated all of the follow-up comments and
suggestions. Here's some more info. I didn't want to write this
originally because of I didn't want to post a long message, but since
I was asked . . .
First of all, I was asked by Kit if I'm writing an article or doing
research. The answer to both of these is "no." I can't imagine
having the time to do these things. I know that you don't know me,
but rest assured, if you see a posting from me, I will tell you about
any motivations like that.
What I was basically looking for was suggestions for how to balance
the need for time for myself with the guilty feelings that I
experience when I'm not always wanting to jump up and interact with
my kids and help them learn. Here's some background info.
We have five children:
1. A 10 year old son who is BRILLIANT when it comes to physics, the
American Revolution, talking about his feelings, et al. He has an
UNBELIEVABLE ability to intuit math and physics. He's incredible.
At the same time, he can't read or write and we're sure he's
somewhere on the Asperger's continuum. It's because of him that we
unschool because there's NO WAY, absolutely NO WAY that he could
learn any other way. He has real issues with anger, rage, and
paranoia at the same time. This son goes to biofeedback therapy once
a week to work on these issues. I used to take him (along with the
other children), but now my dad takes him once a week, which is a
HUGE help for me.
2. A 7-year old son who is jolly, happy, and a very traditional
learner. This child loves workbooks, planned lessons, and
traditional schoolwork. He loves design and architecture and beauty
and engineering. He has severe verbal dyspraxia and has gone to
speech therapy for almost four years, and probably has 1-2 years to
go. My dad is going to take him to therapy this semester, too.
Someone mentioned an online article about himif you want to see
two photos of a beautiful child, go to
http://einside.kent.edu/article.asp?aid=287
3. A 4-year old daughter who will probably be much like our 7-year
old. She has wanted to be a doctor since she's been 3. She is smart
as a WHIP. She pores over anything involving medicine. She is also
a girlie-girl, and if I hadn't given birth to her at home (our last
three bio children were born at home), I would have SWORN there was a
hospital mix-up because I'm NOT a girlie-girl (although I confess to
really getting into it because of her influence!). She's REALLY
feisty. That's a good word for herfeisty.
All three of these older children go to a motor development program
for nine weeks each semester, mainly because of the first son's needs.
4. A 14-month old daughter who is great at toddling and eating real
food, although she's so tiny she's not even on the charts.
5. A 12-month old niece who has lived with us since she's been one
month old. At the end of this month, we will attend a custody
hearing and will probably end up with legal custody of her. She's an
absolute JOY and we love her to pieces. We believe that her living
with us is the best thing for her (long, sad story). At the same
time, this past year has been UNBELIEVABLY stressful because of the
emotions of dealing with a child in the custody of child protective
services and all that entails, and having to watch the anguish of her
parents. As much as we love her, we would prefer that her own
parents could manage their lives well enough to have custody of her,
but that doesn't appear to be in the cards.
My husband is a computer network engineer at a university. I'm a
part-time (20 hours/week) librarian at a university. I love my job
and he loves his. After 13.5 years of marriage, I still refer to my
husband as a saint and tell people that he walks on water. He's
absolutely WONDERFUL. He walks in the door after working all day (at
a really stressful job) and takes over.
We decided to unschool, as stated above, because of the needs of our
firstborn, and it just made sense. I lack a local support group,
though, and joined this e-group for its ideas and insights.
Susan from VA asked what life is like for me on a daily basis. It's
hectic, really hectic. Taking care of two babies is fun and a
blessing, but the emotional stress of the situation around our niece
(which will HOPEFULLY ease somewhat soon) has been really hard.
There's a TON of physical work to be done, although it's getting
easier as the babies are older and our children help with dishes,
picking up, and cleaning the house. PLUS, coping with the anger and
rage of my first son is really hard. Really, really, really hard.
It's hard to imagine what it's like unless you have a child like
this. My mother, who taught first grade for 33 years, and my sister,
who has taught for 27 years, have both told me that they've NEVER
seen a child with issues like his. Believe me, he doesn't see this
behavior from either my husband or myself. Back to my son, his
biofeedback training (one full year of it, and at least another six
months to go) has REALLY, really helped him, but he will always have
attitude and anger issues.
So, to answer what life is like on a daily basis: it's busy. Our
niece's parents are scheduled to come 12 hours/week to visit. They
don't always come, but it's in the back of our minds that they COULD
come. Plus, we have social workers coming and going all the time.
Plus, all the paperwork that goes with this situation. Plus, all the
work of running a big house with five children under ten.
My greatest joy is reading to my children and watching them create
and make things. My greatest fear and anxiety is trying to figure
out if my UNBELIEVABLY gifted 10 year old isn't reading because I
haven't taken the time to help him figure it out, or if he's just not
ready, or if there's something holding him back (we did 26 weeks of
vision therapy a few years ago) that if we could just resolve, he'd
start to read and write. Right now, if I ask him to read or write
more than two sentences, he goes "ballistic" and is unbelievably
defiant and combative. So, most of the time, I don't ask him to read
or write anything.
Then, in the back of my mind, I have this CONSTANT fear that they
(especially the ten-year old) will end up not able to take care of
themselves as adults. If I KNEW that they will turn out able to
support themselves, I could relax a bit. I don't have other friends
who are homeschooling. Most of the homeschool support groups are for
church-goers and we are more secular. Plus, I can't imagine having
the time to go to a weekly or bi-weekly meeting. It would mean
scheduling around my work schedule, and our niece's parents visits
and social workers' visits, and taking all the children, OR, if I
went alone, my husband would then be left with all the childcare
responsibilities.
Susan from VA asked how I'm juggling it all and if I find time for
myself. In a nutshell, I juggle it all by working really hard all
the time. I don't find a lot of time for myself (nor does my
husband-he has even LESS time for himself) and that's what
led to my original post. I absolutely know that this time is short-
lived and there's a HUGE part of me that loves this phase and I
absolutely LOVE watching my kids create things and learn. When we
take them places, people are BLOWN away by their attentiveness and
the kinds of questions they ask. So, on the one hand, I KNOW that
unschooling is working. It's still really hard when they're not
reading and writing and I confess that I feel some guilt when I think
that perhaps it's because I'm not more attentive and don't always
jump up and interact with them more.
Sandra Dodd wrote, "Someone has to serve them. If you choose to be
their learning facilitator, it's going to take some time and effort
to facilitate their learning. You can do it lovingly or
resentfully. The former would be better for all involved!"
I agree totally. I WANT to serve them lovingly. The "time and
effort" part is what's hardfind both. Also, in order to get to
that loving space, I need to have some time so that I feel that I
have the reserves to offer them. I can't figure out how to find time
to give ME time so that I can give THEM time. I've read and
implemented a TON of books and ideas about simplification and
organization (in fact, I've given presentations on the latter!)
We're really well-organizedabout as much as we can be. It's the
only way we can keep things going!
I can tell you that I want to go to the Peabody, MA conference this
year (we've already plotted out a vacation revolving around science
museums and Revolutionary War sites on the way there and back)
because I'm REALLY in need of being around others who are unschooling!
So, I don't really have a follow-up question, although if anyone has
any tips for finding space and time to get into a more loving and
giving space, please pass them on. I told my husband last night that
I'd love to go on a cruise with him, but we can't figure out a way to
get a babysitter for a week, nor do we want to leave the children
(especially the babies) for that long. Getting a babysitter is not
as easy as it soundsbecause of our niece's situation, any
babysitter has to pass a police check, and a child abuse check. I
have two friends that have been cleared so far, but teenagers are not
a possibility, and we can only ask our friends to babysit so often,
and we reserve those times for when we REALLY need it (to run
errands, attend court hearings, etc.)
Please forgive me for sounding like I'm whining. I actually really
like my life and being busy and I adore my husband and children. At
the same time, since I was asked for me details, I wanted to present
you with more information.
Amey
mother. I've appreciated all of the follow-up comments and
suggestions. Here's some more info. I didn't want to write this
originally because of I didn't want to post a long message, but since
I was asked . . .
First of all, I was asked by Kit if I'm writing an article or doing
research. The answer to both of these is "no." I can't imagine
having the time to do these things. I know that you don't know me,
but rest assured, if you see a posting from me, I will tell you about
any motivations like that.
What I was basically looking for was suggestions for how to balance
the need for time for myself with the guilty feelings that I
experience when I'm not always wanting to jump up and interact with
my kids and help them learn. Here's some background info.
We have five children:
1. A 10 year old son who is BRILLIANT when it comes to physics, the
American Revolution, talking about his feelings, et al. He has an
UNBELIEVABLE ability to intuit math and physics. He's incredible.
At the same time, he can't read or write and we're sure he's
somewhere on the Asperger's continuum. It's because of him that we
unschool because there's NO WAY, absolutely NO WAY that he could
learn any other way. He has real issues with anger, rage, and
paranoia at the same time. This son goes to biofeedback therapy once
a week to work on these issues. I used to take him (along with the
other children), but now my dad takes him once a week, which is a
HUGE help for me.
2. A 7-year old son who is jolly, happy, and a very traditional
learner. This child loves workbooks, planned lessons, and
traditional schoolwork. He loves design and architecture and beauty
and engineering. He has severe verbal dyspraxia and has gone to
speech therapy for almost four years, and probably has 1-2 years to
go. My dad is going to take him to therapy this semester, too.
Someone mentioned an online article about himif you want to see
two photos of a beautiful child, go to
http://einside.kent.edu/article.asp?aid=287
3. A 4-year old daughter who will probably be much like our 7-year
old. She has wanted to be a doctor since she's been 3. She is smart
as a WHIP. She pores over anything involving medicine. She is also
a girlie-girl, and if I hadn't given birth to her at home (our last
three bio children were born at home), I would have SWORN there was a
hospital mix-up because I'm NOT a girlie-girl (although I confess to
really getting into it because of her influence!). She's REALLY
feisty. That's a good word for herfeisty.
All three of these older children go to a motor development program
for nine weeks each semester, mainly because of the first son's needs.
4. A 14-month old daughter who is great at toddling and eating real
food, although she's so tiny she's not even on the charts.
5. A 12-month old niece who has lived with us since she's been one
month old. At the end of this month, we will attend a custody
hearing and will probably end up with legal custody of her. She's an
absolute JOY and we love her to pieces. We believe that her living
with us is the best thing for her (long, sad story). At the same
time, this past year has been UNBELIEVABLY stressful because of the
emotions of dealing with a child in the custody of child protective
services and all that entails, and having to watch the anguish of her
parents. As much as we love her, we would prefer that her own
parents could manage their lives well enough to have custody of her,
but that doesn't appear to be in the cards.
My husband is a computer network engineer at a university. I'm a
part-time (20 hours/week) librarian at a university. I love my job
and he loves his. After 13.5 years of marriage, I still refer to my
husband as a saint and tell people that he walks on water. He's
absolutely WONDERFUL. He walks in the door after working all day (at
a really stressful job) and takes over.
We decided to unschool, as stated above, because of the needs of our
firstborn, and it just made sense. I lack a local support group,
though, and joined this e-group for its ideas and insights.
Susan from VA asked what life is like for me on a daily basis. It's
hectic, really hectic. Taking care of two babies is fun and a
blessing, but the emotional stress of the situation around our niece
(which will HOPEFULLY ease somewhat soon) has been really hard.
There's a TON of physical work to be done, although it's getting
easier as the babies are older and our children help with dishes,
picking up, and cleaning the house. PLUS, coping with the anger and
rage of my first son is really hard. Really, really, really hard.
It's hard to imagine what it's like unless you have a child like
this. My mother, who taught first grade for 33 years, and my sister,
who has taught for 27 years, have both told me that they've NEVER
seen a child with issues like his. Believe me, he doesn't see this
behavior from either my husband or myself. Back to my son, his
biofeedback training (one full year of it, and at least another six
months to go) has REALLY, really helped him, but he will always have
attitude and anger issues.
So, to answer what life is like on a daily basis: it's busy. Our
niece's parents are scheduled to come 12 hours/week to visit. They
don't always come, but it's in the back of our minds that they COULD
come. Plus, we have social workers coming and going all the time.
Plus, all the paperwork that goes with this situation. Plus, all the
work of running a big house with five children under ten.
My greatest joy is reading to my children and watching them create
and make things. My greatest fear and anxiety is trying to figure
out if my UNBELIEVABLY gifted 10 year old isn't reading because I
haven't taken the time to help him figure it out, or if he's just not
ready, or if there's something holding him back (we did 26 weeks of
vision therapy a few years ago) that if we could just resolve, he'd
start to read and write. Right now, if I ask him to read or write
more than two sentences, he goes "ballistic" and is unbelievably
defiant and combative. So, most of the time, I don't ask him to read
or write anything.
Then, in the back of my mind, I have this CONSTANT fear that they
(especially the ten-year old) will end up not able to take care of
themselves as adults. If I KNEW that they will turn out able to
support themselves, I could relax a bit. I don't have other friends
who are homeschooling. Most of the homeschool support groups are for
church-goers and we are more secular. Plus, I can't imagine having
the time to go to a weekly or bi-weekly meeting. It would mean
scheduling around my work schedule, and our niece's parents visits
and social workers' visits, and taking all the children, OR, if I
went alone, my husband would then be left with all the childcare
responsibilities.
Susan from VA asked how I'm juggling it all and if I find time for
myself. In a nutshell, I juggle it all by working really hard all
the time. I don't find a lot of time for myself (nor does my
husband-he has even LESS time for himself) and that's what
led to my original post. I absolutely know that this time is short-
lived and there's a HUGE part of me that loves this phase and I
absolutely LOVE watching my kids create things and learn. When we
take them places, people are BLOWN away by their attentiveness and
the kinds of questions they ask. So, on the one hand, I KNOW that
unschooling is working. It's still really hard when they're not
reading and writing and I confess that I feel some guilt when I think
that perhaps it's because I'm not more attentive and don't always
jump up and interact with them more.
Sandra Dodd wrote, "Someone has to serve them. If you choose to be
their learning facilitator, it's going to take some time and effort
to facilitate their learning. You can do it lovingly or
resentfully. The former would be better for all involved!"
I agree totally. I WANT to serve them lovingly. The "time and
effort" part is what's hardfind both. Also, in order to get to
that loving space, I need to have some time so that I feel that I
have the reserves to offer them. I can't figure out how to find time
to give ME time so that I can give THEM time. I've read and
implemented a TON of books and ideas about simplification and
organization (in fact, I've given presentations on the latter!)
We're really well-organizedabout as much as we can be. It's the
only way we can keep things going!
I can tell you that I want to go to the Peabody, MA conference this
year (we've already plotted out a vacation revolving around science
museums and Revolutionary War sites on the way there and back)
because I'm REALLY in need of being around others who are unschooling!
So, I don't really have a follow-up question, although if anyone has
any tips for finding space and time to get into a more loving and
giving space, please pass them on. I told my husband last night that
I'd love to go on a cruise with him, but we can't figure out a way to
get a babysitter for a week, nor do we want to leave the children
(especially the babies) for that long. Getting a babysitter is not
as easy as it soundsbecause of our niece's situation, any
babysitter has to pass a police check, and a child abuse check. I
have two friends that have been cleared so far, but teenagers are not
a possibility, and we can only ask our friends to babysit so often,
and we reserve those times for when we REALLY need it (to run
errands, attend court hearings, etc.)
Please forgive me for sounding like I'm whining. I actually really
like my life and being busy and I adore my husband and children. At
the same time, since I was asked for me details, I wanted to present
you with more information.
Amey
Wife2Vegman
--- ameyp_90 <AMEYP@...> wrote:
WOW! I am so glad I asked!
See, that is a LOT more information than thinking you
just had two children at home. Five children, two
with special needs, and two that are practically twin
toddlers is a LOT for any family!
I can give you some reassurance about your oldest. My
nephew has the same rage as your son. He is 17 now,
but had the same rage and learning issues. He was
just this past fall diagnosed with Aspergers.
He did learn to read at about age 11, although it is
hard for him to process consistently, so he has not
been able to pass the test for his learner's permit
yet. He is holding down a job though, has a
friend, and seems quite happy.
My own son who is 12.5yo just learned to read this
past year. Today when the second of the Kenshin
series of comics arrived, he actually stopped playing
his computer game to go upstairs to read! I almost
broke out cheering, but I decided to just breathe
instead :-)
My suggestion to you would be to hire one or more of
those college students at the university you work at
to come to your house to help. Hire one to clean, or
to play board games with the oldest, or to babysit the
babies while you take a nap or read a book or
whatever. Make sure you get a date night with your
husband at least every other week, go to the movies or
dinner even if it is only Taco Bell and the dollar
theater.
College kids are often happy to do things for food,
too, like a good dinner with a family is worth gold to
some of them who are from far away, who miss thier
younger siblings and who might want to get away from
the campus for a few hours.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
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> I'm the one who originally posted about being a badAmey,
> homeschooling
> mother. I've appreciated all of the follow-up
> comments and
> suggestions. Here's some more info. I didn't want
> to write this
> originally because of I didn't want to post a long
> message, but since
> I was asked . . .
WOW! I am so glad I asked!
See, that is a LOT more information than thinking you
just had two children at home. Five children, two
with special needs, and two that are practically twin
toddlers is a LOT for any family!
I can give you some reassurance about your oldest. My
nephew has the same rage as your son. He is 17 now,
but had the same rage and learning issues. He was
just this past fall diagnosed with Aspergers.
He did learn to read at about age 11, although it is
hard for him to process consistently, so he has not
been able to pass the test for his learner's permit
yet. He is holding down a job though, has a
friend, and seems quite happy.
My own son who is 12.5yo just learned to read this
past year. Today when the second of the Kenshin
series of comics arrived, he actually stopped playing
his computer game to go upstairs to read! I almost
broke out cheering, but I decided to just breathe
instead :-)
My suggestion to you would be to hire one or more of
those college students at the university you work at
to come to your house to help. Hire one to clean, or
to play board games with the oldest, or to babysit the
babies while you take a nap or read a book or
whatever. Make sure you get a date night with your
husband at least every other week, go to the movies or
dinner even if it is only Taco Bell and the dollar
theater.
College kids are often happy to do things for food,
too, like a good dinner with a family is worth gold to
some of them who are from far away, who miss thier
younger siblings and who might want to get away from
the campus for a few hours.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
Danielle Conger
Holy Cow, lady! Now, I feel really bad for jumping to conclusions. So sorry if my words sounded harsh, but this post really puts your sentiments into context. I guess I was picturing someone who simply begrudged playing with their children and wanted to read another magazine, or whatever. No wonder you're feeling overwhelmed and needy for some self-time!
I can see how a regular night out might seem like one more thing on your plate, but I think you need to find some way to carve out some time for yourself that is ONLY for yourself--not work, commute, sleep (though I'm sure that's in short supply too!). What do you think might help you feel recharged rather than burdened with one more obligation?
Some folks find exercise relaxing. I'm more of a social person, so I like to get out for some adult conversation. I don't know what else to suggest. Some people are manicure, facial or massage people--some of us would like to be too if we had the $$$. <g>
My own reaction to this post would be to find some way to lose some of the obligations that you do have, or at least ease some of them. My first thought would be your part time job. Is there any way you could cut your hours back? Maybe you guys need it financially, I don't know. You say you enjoy it, but it doesn't seem to be fulfilling the self-time need.
Maybe you could have someone in to take on some of the household chores instead of babysitting? Maybe having the cleaning or grocery shopping or laundry off your plate might help some. If you didn't have the more mundane things hanging over your head, maybe you'd be more relaxed when you were with your kids. I know when I'm thinking that things *need* to be done, it's really excruciating to do those time-consuming things with my kids, especially since I'm a total multi-tasker. So from that standpoint, I can totally understand what you're saying.
Maybe just having this board to vent and read might help you with some self time. That's why I like it--I can grab it in bits and snatches during the day when the kids don't need my immediate attention. Sorry again for making assumptions, and thank you for posting the details that paint the picture of your reality. Makes it a whole lot easier to understand where you're coming from!
--danielle
Amey wrote:
I've appreciated all of the follow-up comments and
suggestions. Here's some more info. I didn't want to write this
originally because of I didn't want to post a long message, but since
I was asked . . .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I can see how a regular night out might seem like one more thing on your plate, but I think you need to find some way to carve out some time for yourself that is ONLY for yourself--not work, commute, sleep (though I'm sure that's in short supply too!). What do you think might help you feel recharged rather than burdened with one more obligation?
Some folks find exercise relaxing. I'm more of a social person, so I like to get out for some adult conversation. I don't know what else to suggest. Some people are manicure, facial or massage people--some of us would like to be too if we had the $$$. <g>
My own reaction to this post would be to find some way to lose some of the obligations that you do have, or at least ease some of them. My first thought would be your part time job. Is there any way you could cut your hours back? Maybe you guys need it financially, I don't know. You say you enjoy it, but it doesn't seem to be fulfilling the self-time need.
Maybe you could have someone in to take on some of the household chores instead of babysitting? Maybe having the cleaning or grocery shopping or laundry off your plate might help some. If you didn't have the more mundane things hanging over your head, maybe you'd be more relaxed when you were with your kids. I know when I'm thinking that things *need* to be done, it's really excruciating to do those time-consuming things with my kids, especially since I'm a total multi-tasker. So from that standpoint, I can totally understand what you're saying.
Maybe just having this board to vent and read might help you with some self time. That's why I like it--I can grab it in bits and snatches during the day when the kids don't need my immediate attention. Sorry again for making assumptions, and thank you for posting the details that paint the picture of your reality. Makes it a whole lot easier to understand where you're coming from!
--danielle
Amey wrote:
I've appreciated all of the follow-up comments and
suggestions. Here's some more info. I didn't want to write this
originally because of I didn't want to post a long message, but since
I was asked . . .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
teresab42267
Amey,
You are obviously not a bad unschooling mother. Not a bad mother in
any sense of the term. I have four children, some with anger/rage
issues as well. My youngest is now almost 8, so the high maintenance
times of baby and toddlerhood are over. I feel ya, girl! Is there
any chance you can get a Mommy's helper to come help you out during
the day? Just to play with the babies, maybe make lunch, just take
some of the pressure off.. give you a chance to spend time with each
of your children one on one? If you lived near us, (NC), my
daughter would love to come help you out. She has been a Mommy's
helper before to a lady with 5 boys, expecting baby boy #6. I hope
something works out for you. When you get to the end of your rope,
just hang on!
Teresa
You are obviously not a bad unschooling mother. Not a bad mother in
any sense of the term. I have four children, some with anger/rage
issues as well. My youngest is now almost 8, so the high maintenance
times of baby and toddlerhood are over. I feel ya, girl! Is there
any chance you can get a Mommy's helper to come help you out during
the day? Just to play with the babies, maybe make lunch, just take
some of the pressure off.. give you a chance to spend time with each
of your children one on one? If you lived near us, (NC), my
daughter would love to come help you out. She has been a Mommy's
helper before to a lady with 5 boys, expecting baby boy #6. I hope
something works out for you. When you get to the end of your rope,
just hang on!
Teresa
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/13/04 2:53:49 PM, AMEYP@... writes:
<< PLUS, coping with the anger and
rage of my first son is really hard. Really, really, really hard.
It's hard to imagine what it's like unless you have a child like
this. >>
An oldest child who is needy and has two younger siblings is already at a
great disadvantage, but you've added two other children?
I know a family with five children. They had two biological children and
adopted three, assorted international adoption. The mother had an urge to take
care of more babies, and she kept collecting until she was overwhelmed.
Sometimes it seemed her own two didn't have a mother anymore.
I grew up with two cousins, one slightly older than I am, one slightly older
than my sister, so abou the time they arrived (they came a year apart so I'll
average that year) a family that would already have had stress with two
children had four girls, 10, 9, 7 and 6. I was the nine; I was no longer oldest, and
my sister became youngest of four. It wasn't better for me and my sister.
I'm not sure whether it was much better for my cousins. It was very hard on
my parents and the marriage lasted only another eight years when we were
scattered hither and yon.
My parents told us what we SHOULD think about it, but they didn't care what
we DID think about it. Please try not to discount a child's real reasons for
true frustration. Just because someone has Asperger's symptoms doesn't mean he
might not have anything to be frustrated about.
<<All three of these older children go to a motor development program
for nine weeks each semester, mainly because of the first son's needs.>>
Your semester or a school's semester?
Why would all three go because of one child's needs?
Sandra
<< PLUS, coping with the anger and
rage of my first son is really hard. Really, really, really hard.
It's hard to imagine what it's like unless you have a child like
this. >>
An oldest child who is needy and has two younger siblings is already at a
great disadvantage, but you've added two other children?
I know a family with five children. They had two biological children and
adopted three, assorted international adoption. The mother had an urge to take
care of more babies, and she kept collecting until she was overwhelmed.
Sometimes it seemed her own two didn't have a mother anymore.
I grew up with two cousins, one slightly older than I am, one slightly older
than my sister, so abou the time they arrived (they came a year apart so I'll
average that year) a family that would already have had stress with two
children had four girls, 10, 9, 7 and 6. I was the nine; I was no longer oldest, and
my sister became youngest of four. It wasn't better for me and my sister.
I'm not sure whether it was much better for my cousins. It was very hard on
my parents and the marriage lasted only another eight years when we were
scattered hither and yon.
My parents told us what we SHOULD think about it, but they didn't care what
we DID think about it. Please try not to discount a child's real reasons for
true frustration. Just because someone has Asperger's symptoms doesn't mean he
might not have anything to be frustrated about.
<<All three of these older children go to a motor development program
for nine weeks each semester, mainly because of the first son's needs.>>
Your semester or a school's semester?
Why would all three go because of one child's needs?
Sandra
Amey Park
Sandra wrote: "An oldest child who is needy and has two younger siblings is
already at a great disadvantage, but you've added two other children?"
All I can say is that family planning doesn't always go by the book :). Also, we took
in our niece because she was a baby in need. I would still take her in--she's been
fine, it's the parents who have been hard to handle. Furthermore, my 10 and 7 year
old sons have learned a lot about helping and taking care of others--putting the
babies above their own needs at time. They do this on their own, without my urging
them. They actually take a lot of pride in being able to calm a baby.
Sandra wrote: I was the nine; I was no longer oldest, and
my sister became youngest of four. It wasn't better for me and my sister.
I'm not sure whether it was much better for my cousins. It was very hard on
my parents and the marriage lasted only another eight years when we were
scattered hither and yon.
Fortunately for my children, our niece is the youngest, so I've not disrupted anyone's
birth order. Thanks for the advice about attending to our marriage.
Finally, I wrote <All three of these older children go to a motor development program
for nine weeks each semester, mainly because of the first son's needs.>>
Sandra wrote: Your semester or a school's semester? The answer: The
University's semester
Sandra wrote: Why would all three go because of one child's needs?
Please note that I wrote "mainly". We started this program primarily because the
oldest could REALLY benefit from it. The other two go because they have a need to
learn physical skills (this is an area where we really lack, so we've sought outside
help), they LOVE the program, and it gives them a chance to have one-on-one time
with an enthusiastic college student who has tailored a program to their own needs
and desires. In our opinion, it's a great program that the children LOVE and really
benefit from. They very much look forward to it and have made great progress.
Amey
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
already at a great disadvantage, but you've added two other children?"
All I can say is that family planning doesn't always go by the book :). Also, we took
in our niece because she was a baby in need. I would still take her in--she's been
fine, it's the parents who have been hard to handle. Furthermore, my 10 and 7 year
old sons have learned a lot about helping and taking care of others--putting the
babies above their own needs at time. They do this on their own, without my urging
them. They actually take a lot of pride in being able to calm a baby.
Sandra wrote: I was the nine; I was no longer oldest, and
my sister became youngest of four. It wasn't better for me and my sister.
I'm not sure whether it was much better for my cousins. It was very hard on
my parents and the marriage lasted only another eight years when we were
scattered hither and yon.
Fortunately for my children, our niece is the youngest, so I've not disrupted anyone's
birth order. Thanks for the advice about attending to our marriage.
Finally, I wrote <All three of these older children go to a motor development program
for nine weeks each semester, mainly because of the first son's needs.>>
Sandra wrote: Your semester or a school's semester? The answer: The
University's semester
Sandra wrote: Why would all three go because of one child's needs?
Please note that I wrote "mainly". We started this program primarily because the
oldest could REALLY benefit from it. The other two go because they have a need to
learn physical skills (this is an area where we really lack, so we've sought outside
help), they LOVE the program, and it gives them a chance to have one-on-one time
with an enthusiastic college student who has tailored a program to their own needs
and desires. In our opinion, it's a great program that the children LOVE and really
benefit from. They very much look forward to it and have made great progress.
Amey
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
veejie72
Request for Amey:
Can you PLEASE stop referring to yourself as a "bad unschooling mother"?
You are amazing. I tip my hat to you. I was in tears a few hours ago because I couldn't
get my 7 month old to sleep and she's my only child. Then I read your story and I
thought "I am such a WUSS!"
You are a very strong woman and I wish I had anything to say to you that would help
your situation, but all I can say is that I admire you very much and I think you are a
ROCKIN' unschooling mother.
-Vijay
Can you PLEASE stop referring to yourself as a "bad unschooling mother"?
You are amazing. I tip my hat to you. I was in tears a few hours ago because I couldn't
get my 7 month old to sleep and she's my only child. Then I read your story and I
thought "I am such a WUSS!"
You are a very strong woman and I wish I had anything to say to you that would help
your situation, but all I can say is that I admire you very much and I think you are a
ROCKIN' unschooling mother.
-Vijay
liza sabater
On Tuesday, January 13, 2004, at 01:58 PM, ameyp_90 wrote:
sometimes your dad to take care of them? You need more people involved
in your life. You need "aunts" and "uncles" and even more
"grandparents" involved, especially with all the different needs your
kids have. So if your family cannot spare the time, buy yourself an
extended family. Get yourself students who may want to have some P/T
work as mother's helpers and don't get into the trap of depending on
one. Get yourself 2 or 3 and keep them on call. Start relegating your
kids to others, even more than what you do now and do it fast. A
burnt-out, depressed mother will be detrimental to everybody at home
--that's why you do not want to get to that state.
I went through an unconventional route to deal with my a post-partum
depression that turned into what my family doctor called a pervasive,
low-grade depression. You're functional but your body is maxxed out
with the stress, anger and sorrow. He is an MD and a homeopath and
guided me through my recovery with constitutional remedies and some
serious changes in my diet. Instead of doing (cognitive) psychotherapy
again, I decided I wanted something deeper and more physical, so I went
back to taking yoga lessons (which include chanting and meditation) and
I got myself to a gym as well. And I went back to chiropractic
adjustments once a week. This meant I needed to some serious rejuggling
of not just my schedule but OUR schedule. This was not just my priority
but it need to be our family's priority.
Beyond these physical changes though, I took a big step at ensuring
that my children were covered in times I needed a break. I need to work
because I feel like I am going insane if I do not. I've spent the last
year basically unschooling in some of the kinds of web development
technology Mark knows little of and that I love because they involved
developing social software. You know I live with a geek when my deeper
learning of coding has re-ignited our relationship. Now I am not just
the advisor / manager, but a fellow Dilbert as well :) I've also been
writing more (which I used to do for a living since forever), and
basically going back to the kinds of intellectual activities I forgot I
loved after having kids.
When Evan was about 8 months I knew something was wrong with me, I was
so miserable. So at that point we accepted Bena in our lives. Neither
of our families are that interested in kids, so we've had to go out and
seek the aide of, and I have to say, 2 fantastic women who I just thank
the universe for having around. One is Bena, who was our long-term
babysitter after I basically freaked out and felt that Evan's colic,
coupled with my post-partum depression were not a good combination. She
started part-time but in the 6 years she's been with us, I've attempted
to be an entrepeneur and even go back to full-time work after Aidan was
born. So during some of those years she has been with us for more than
20 hours week. Ironically, because at these times Mark was
transitioning out of the corporate world and into the art world, she
really has been crucial in our having the time to work and create and
be with our children all at the same time (and all together in the less
than 800sq feet we rent here in nyc). Bena now is only with us on
Fridays. She takes the kids to the library, museum or workshops or what
not. It's their special time together and they really look forward to
seeing her on Fridays.
Ishe is our 'nightime' sitter. She lives close to us and she was the
cool nursery school teacher that Evan had in his 1 year at 'school'.
She was a child-actor. She was 'tutored' by a teacher that had the
'open classroom' approach that Sandra talks about because her mom is a
pre-k teacher that also practices the same. If Bena is like an aunt,
Ishe is like a younger cousin. I love having her around because when we
are together, I don't have to talk like a mom, I'm just another one of
the girls.
Then there are our homeschooling and schooling friends. Tanya and
Hannah are schooling moms I know from when our oldest kids were 2 years
old and we all lived her in the East Village. Hannah & her family moved
to New Jersey. Still, they're like family and for them I have no qualms
in forking over $100+ for a car rental to spend the day , or even
better, an overnight. With Tanya I can leave the kids, run errands and
come back to pick up kids from a playdate. She can also do the same
with us. Same with John and Ailey. He's the unschooling granddad of
Ailey and I spend more time with them than with his wife (Ailey's
grandmother, who still works full time). I either pick her up and keep
her with us for the day or they do the same with the guys.
Without them I'd have no life and my kids would have an unhappy,
resentful and depressed mom. I grew up having a lot of family and
friends in my life so I still feel like our life is barren of family
and friends. But our lives are not conventional anymore. Mark and I
hate the idea of parenting alone and being a nuclear family. We're just
trying to find a way to tribalize our homebase, and find more creative
ways at creating a support system for our kids and ultimately ourselves.
l i z a
=========================
www.culturekitchen.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Susan from VA asked how I'm juggling it all and if I find time forYou have basically a tribe but nobody else but you and your husband and
> myself. In a nutshell, I juggle it all by working really hard all
> the time. I don't find a lot of time for myself (nor does my
> husband�-he has even LESS time for himself) � and that's what
> led to my original post.
sometimes your dad to take care of them? You need more people involved
in your life. You need "aunts" and "uncles" and even more
"grandparents" involved, especially with all the different needs your
kids have. So if your family cannot spare the time, buy yourself an
extended family. Get yourself students who may want to have some P/T
work as mother's helpers and don't get into the trap of depending on
one. Get yourself 2 or 3 and keep them on call. Start relegating your
kids to others, even more than what you do now and do it fast. A
burnt-out, depressed mother will be detrimental to everybody at home
--that's why you do not want to get to that state.
I went through an unconventional route to deal with my a post-partum
depression that turned into what my family doctor called a pervasive,
low-grade depression. You're functional but your body is maxxed out
with the stress, anger and sorrow. He is an MD and a homeopath and
guided me through my recovery with constitutional remedies and some
serious changes in my diet. Instead of doing (cognitive) psychotherapy
again, I decided I wanted something deeper and more physical, so I went
back to taking yoga lessons (which include chanting and meditation) and
I got myself to a gym as well. And I went back to chiropractic
adjustments once a week. This meant I needed to some serious rejuggling
of not just my schedule but OUR schedule. This was not just my priority
but it need to be our family's priority.
Beyond these physical changes though, I took a big step at ensuring
that my children were covered in times I needed a break. I need to work
because I feel like I am going insane if I do not. I've spent the last
year basically unschooling in some of the kinds of web development
technology Mark knows little of and that I love because they involved
developing social software. You know I live with a geek when my deeper
learning of coding has re-ignited our relationship. Now I am not just
the advisor / manager, but a fellow Dilbert as well :) I've also been
writing more (which I used to do for a living since forever), and
basically going back to the kinds of intellectual activities I forgot I
loved after having kids.
When Evan was about 8 months I knew something was wrong with me, I was
so miserable. So at that point we accepted Bena in our lives. Neither
of our families are that interested in kids, so we've had to go out and
seek the aide of, and I have to say, 2 fantastic women who I just thank
the universe for having around. One is Bena, who was our long-term
babysitter after I basically freaked out and felt that Evan's colic,
coupled with my post-partum depression were not a good combination. She
started part-time but in the 6 years she's been with us, I've attempted
to be an entrepeneur and even go back to full-time work after Aidan was
born. So during some of those years she has been with us for more than
20 hours week. Ironically, because at these times Mark was
transitioning out of the corporate world and into the art world, she
really has been crucial in our having the time to work and create and
be with our children all at the same time (and all together in the less
than 800sq feet we rent here in nyc). Bena now is only with us on
Fridays. She takes the kids to the library, museum or workshops or what
not. It's their special time together and they really look forward to
seeing her on Fridays.
Ishe is our 'nightime' sitter. She lives close to us and she was the
cool nursery school teacher that Evan had in his 1 year at 'school'.
She was a child-actor. She was 'tutored' by a teacher that had the
'open classroom' approach that Sandra talks about because her mom is a
pre-k teacher that also practices the same. If Bena is like an aunt,
Ishe is like a younger cousin. I love having her around because when we
are together, I don't have to talk like a mom, I'm just another one of
the girls.
Then there are our homeschooling and schooling friends. Tanya and
Hannah are schooling moms I know from when our oldest kids were 2 years
old and we all lived her in the East Village. Hannah & her family moved
to New Jersey. Still, they're like family and for them I have no qualms
in forking over $100+ for a car rental to spend the day , or even
better, an overnight. With Tanya I can leave the kids, run errands and
come back to pick up kids from a playdate. She can also do the same
with us. Same with John and Ailey. He's the unschooling granddad of
Ailey and I spend more time with them than with his wife (Ailey's
grandmother, who still works full time). I either pick her up and keep
her with us for the day or they do the same with the guys.
Without them I'd have no life and my kids would have an unhappy,
resentful and depressed mom. I grew up having a lot of family and
friends in my life so I still feel like our life is barren of family
and friends. But our lives are not conventional anymore. Mark and I
hate the idea of parenting alone and being a nuclear family. We're just
trying to find a way to tribalize our homebase, and find more creative
ways at creating a support system for our kids and ultimately ourselves.
l i z a
=========================
www.culturekitchen.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 1/13/04 9:14 PM, Amey Park at AMEYP@... wrote:
that could help you make the best choices for your family in the future.
You were already pretty full with what your children needed and yet are
adopting another child and that decision is having detrimental affects -- as
in a very pulled to the limit mom -- on the other children already there.
That's not saying you're a bad mom for adopting. It's not saying that you
should have turned the child down. It's saying there may be a pattern of
looking at more ways you can help when taking on more means you wont' be
able to give the time needed to what you've already taken on.
It's suggesting you need to find ways to make sacrifices to cut back so that
you can get the most out of the energy and time you have.
It's natural to want to help the world! But if we keep giving and giving
then we can't be very effective at doing what we're already doing.
Some people adopt cats. Some people can't stop adopting cats. And the cats
they have don't get the attention they need. When the world is still in need
of more help it isn't wrong to recognize our limitations and take care of
what we've already accepted responsiblity for.
being conscious of *everything* it entails and how *everything* will affect
the family, not just the child.
Yes, good can come from adveristy. But it's good to be aware of the price
that's being paid for the good. Learning how to take care of a baby is a
good thing. Getting a mom that will have a break down because she's *chosen*
to take on too much is not an adversity that children should have to learn
from.
Joyce
> All I can say is that family planning doesn't always go by the book :).It's not a reprimand for things you can't change but there may be a pattern
that could help you make the best choices for your family in the future.
You were already pretty full with what your children needed and yet are
adopting another child and that decision is having detrimental affects -- as
in a very pulled to the limit mom -- on the other children already there.
That's not saying you're a bad mom for adopting. It's not saying that you
should have turned the child down. It's saying there may be a pattern of
looking at more ways you can help when taking on more means you wont' be
able to give the time needed to what you've already taken on.
It's suggesting you need to find ways to make sacrifices to cut back so that
you can get the most out of the energy and time you have.
It's natural to want to help the world! But if we keep giving and giving
then we can't be very effective at doing what we're already doing.
Some people adopt cats. Some people can't stop adopting cats. And the cats
they have don't get the attention they need. When the world is still in need
of more help it isn't wrong to recognize our limitations and take care of
what we've already accepted responsiblity for.
> Also, we tookThat was part of the whole package though. Wanting to help a child means
> in our niece because she was a baby in need. I would still take her in--she's
> been
> fine, it's the parents who have been hard to handle.
being conscious of *everything* it entails and how *everything* will affect
the family, not just the child.
Yes, good can come from adveristy. But it's good to be aware of the price
that's being paid for the good. Learning how to take care of a baby is a
good thing. Getting a mom that will have a break down because she's *chosen*
to take on too much is not an adversity that children should have to learn
from.
> Fortunately for my children, our niece is the youngest, so I've not disruptedThe youngest got displaced!
> anyone's birth order.
Joyce
J. Stauffer
<<<<<<In a nutshell, I juggle it all by working really hard all
with Children's Protective Services (what a misnomer!!) and have a special
needs guy. I know what you are going through.
May I suggest that you look at what you are doing and cut back anywhere you
can? Do the kids HAVE TO have a bath everyday? What about suppers as a
picnic on the driveway so there is less clean up? Can you either quit work
or barter for some services to help?
I think the yoga suggestion was wonderful. You can get a completely
different perspective on life in about half an hour.
Julie S.
> the time.>>>>>>>Well, quit that. I also have 5 kids, had lots of foster kids, worked a lot
with Children's Protective Services (what a misnomer!!) and have a special
needs guy. I know what you are going through.
May I suggest that you look at what you are doing and cut back anywhere you
can? Do the kids HAVE TO have a bath everyday? What about suppers as a
picnic on the driveway so there is less clean up? Can you either quit work
or barter for some services to help?
I think the yoga suggestion was wonderful. You can get a completely
different perspective on life in about half an hour.
Julie S.