Wendy Carr

OK I am on a messege board for people with small babies. I found that there
were some homeschoolers there, so we talked about our schooling and I told
them that I unschooled. Now some of the other group members have kinda told
me that its wrong and just now one of them told me that only people with
higher education should unschool, and that you must be a very smart person
to unschool. Do all of you have higher education and are you "Gifted". One
girl told me that I was limited and that I shouldnt homeschool/unschool
cause Im holding my son back.
Im so hurt by these women. We have all been together since we got pg, last
dec!
Wendy


>From: "Dawn Adams" <Wishbone@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] What do you say to people who don't
>GET IT !!!!
>Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:01:05 -0400
>


Wendy Carr
When the first baby laughed for the first time, the laugh broke into a
thousand pieces and they all went skipping about, and that was the beginning
of fairies. - Barrie
Mom to Austyn(8) and Caitlin(5 months)

Proud To Home-school!

_________________________________________________________________
Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed
experience. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

From: "Wendy Carr" <WendyWCarr@...>

<< Do all of you have higher education and are you "Gifted".>>



Yes we are all. <BEG>




<<One
girl told me that I was limited and that I shouldnt homeschool/unschool
cause Im holding my son back.>>


Okay, no we're not! You need to really like your kids and want them around.
You need to respect them and trust them. Be aware of their needs and wants
and where they want to go. Provide tools for them to be able to get what
they want. Play with them and laugh with them. Cuddle, talk, run and love
them. That has nothing to do with higher education or being gifted. Just
ignore those who know not what they say.



Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com

Lyle W.

Maybe it's time for some new "friends". Their kind of support you DON'T need.

~~Do all of you have higher education and are you "Gifted".~~

Nope, not if you mean college degrees. And if I'm "gifted", it's BECAUSE of unschooling! I used to be an ordinary parent, doing the slow dance along the school assembly line like everyone else, but now we're unschoolers. That in itself is a gift.

I'll bet there are people here that had to undo a lot of their higher education in order to BE an unschooler.

Find some new people to talk to. People that are more willing to step out of the box every once in a while.

:)

Lyle


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wendy Carr" <WendyWCarr@...>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:10:17 -0500
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Another question

> OK I am on a messege board for people with small babies. I found that there
> were some homeschoolers there, so we talked about our schooling and I told
> them that I unschooled. Now some of the other group members have kinda told
> me that its wrong and just now one of them told me that only people with
> higher education should unschool, and that you must be a very smart person
> to unschool. Do all of you have higher education and are you "Gifted". One
> girl told me that I was limited and that I shouldnt homeschool/unschool
> cause Im holding my son back.
> Im so hurt by these women. We have all been together since we got pg, last
> dec!
> Wendy
>
>
> >From: "Dawn Adams" <Wishbone@...>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] What do you say to people who don't
> >GET IT !!!!
> >Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:01:05 -0400
> >
>
>
>>



***Always remember, Lead By Example***

--
___________________________________________________________
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Wife2Vegman

--- Wendy Carr <WendyWCarr@...> wrote:
> OK I am on a messege board for people with small
> babies. I found that there
> were some homeschoolers there, so we talked about
> our schooling and I told
> them that I unschooled. Now some of the other group
> members have kinda told
> me that its wrong and just now one of them told me
> that only people with
> higher education should unschool, and that you must
> be a very smart person
> to unschool. Do all of you have higher education and
> are you "Gifted". One
> girl told me that I was limited and that I shouldnt
> homeschool/unschool
> cause Im holding my son back.
> Im so hurt by these women. We have all been together
> since we got pg, last
> dec!
> Wendy


Wendy,

Come on now...do you really believe that? Think about
what unschooling entails. These people are making the
same assumptions as the other person who put you
through the wringer in your last post.

For one, this list is full of people from all walks of
life, unschooling right now, this very minute,
successfully and happily. Some in the city, some in
the country, some in the suburbs. All religions,
races, ethnic and cultural groups, all different
income levels and education levels.

There are how many people on this list now? over
1600?

How many women are on that list? How much research
into unschooling have they done? What books have they
read? What websites have they visited? What
discussion groups have they joined? None? Then tell
them to shut up.

Stop letting other people steal your joy, and create
fears where there don't need to be.

John Holt was interviewed in 1980 for Mother Earth
News. Here is the link to the interview if you want
to read it all:
http://www.bloomington.in.us/~learn/Holt.htm

In this interview he was asked where he went to
school, and he refused to answer that question. When
asked why, his answer was perfect:

PLOWBOY: Perhaps it was your own classroom experiences
that sparked your interest in education. Where did you
go to school?

HOLT: I won't answer that question.

PLOWBOY: You won't? Did I say something wrong?

HOLT: No, but I've come to believe that people's
education is as much their private business as their
religion or politics. Let me just say that most of
what I know I didn't learn in school, or in what
people call "learning situations". I don't owe
anything to formal education for my love of language,
reading, and music. I had those interests before I
went to school, I lost a lot of them in such
institutions, and I've managed to get them back since.




=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman

What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt

__________________________________
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Elizabeth Roberts

Yikes! I'm sorry to hear they are being so harsh with you about YOUR choice! Personally, I barely managed to graduate high school and ONLY because it was easier than dropping out and getting my GED so that I could enlist in the Coast Guard and high-tail it away from a toxic home situation.

I've tried college, but outside of the classes I REALLY wanted to take and had an interest in, I didn't have it in me to care enough to make sure I attended, and so I dropped out of that as well.

I'm a classic "gifted but doesn't live up to her potential, if only we could get her head out of the clouds" geek type.

I don't think that's hampering my children's unschooling. If anything, because I have many many interests, they are exposed to more than if I just focused on one thing LOL

MamaBeth



Wendy Carr <WendyWCarr@...> wrote:
OK I am on a messege board for people with small babies. I found that there
were some homeschoolers there, so we talked about our schooling and I told
them that I unschooled. Now some of the other group members have kinda told
me that its wrong and just now one of them told me that only people with
higher education should unschool, and that you must be a very smart person
to unschool. Do all of you have higher education and are you "Gifted". One
girl told me that I was limited and that I shouldnt homeschool/unschool
cause Im holding my son back.
Im so hurt by these women. We have all been together since we got pg, last
dec!
Wendy


>From: "Dawn Adams" <Wishbone@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] What do you say to people who don't
>GET IT !!!!
>Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:01:05 -0400
>


Wendy Carr
When the first baby laughed for the first time, the laugh broke into a
thousand pieces and they all went skipping about, and that was the beginning
of fairies. - Barrie
Mom to Austyn(8) and Caitlin(5 months)

Proud To Home-school!

_________________________________________________________________
Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed
experience. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[email protected]

In a message dated 1/12/2004 6:37:07 PM Central Standard Time,
WendyWCarr@... writes:


> and that you must be a very smart person
> to unschool.

Just tell her thank you, I am.
Laura


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelly Lenhart

>Im so hurt by these women. We have all been together since we got pg, last
>dec!
>Wendy

I think you have to have a love of learning, a willingness to try anything
and a belief in your kids. Nothing "higher ed" about any of that.

But I totally understand being hurt in this situation. I have a group I've
been with since we were pregnant the winter of 95/96. Our kids are all
turning 8 this month and next. We've been together for 8.5 years at this
point.

When I tried to explain unschooling it became a shooting match--me and the
only other homeschooler (and she's not an unschooler, although she was
supportive. Recently one of the mothers described me as "withholding an
education from my children." She implied, non too subtly, that I was a
neglectful parent.

It was to think that I'd had this long conversation, with women I thought I
could trust, who would hear me honestly. She only heard that I didn't think
formal education was important, thus her formal education was crap (never
said that, just for the record) and I was a bad parent.

-sigh-

I'm really hurt and angry about it. I seriously considered leaving the
group. I still do.

Kelly

liza sabater

On Monday, January 12, 2004, at 07:55 PM, Lyle W. wrote:

> I'll bet there are people here that had to undo a lot of their higher
> education in order to BE an unschooler.

<raising my hand up high in a schoolish fashion>

memememememeememememe

l i z a
=========================
www.culturekitchen.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betsy

** Now some of the other group members have kinda told
me that its wrong and just now one of them told me that only people with
higher education should unschool, and that you must be a very smart person
to unschool. Do all of you have higher education and are you "Gifted".**


In my opinion you DON'T have to be "gifted" to unschool, just
enthusiastic and sparkly.

Also, I think *caring* is more valuable than *knowing* when it comes to
raising happy children.

Betsy

liza sabater

On Monday, January 12, 2004, at 09:37 PM, Kelly Lenhart wrote:

> She only heard that I didn't think
> formal education was important, thus her formal education was crap
> (never
> said that, just for the record) and I was a bad parent.

I've been very, v e r y careful about this. If you say higher education
is not important, people will hear "higher education is crap, therefore
you are crap". education & profession are the markers of status for
americans for lack of real class consciousness. it amazes me the kind
of poverty many people endure in order to get an advanced degree. now
that i am out of that world, i also find appalling that many people
neglect their kids through schooling and after school programs because,
if the kid gets to Harvard then well, it will be proof of your success
as a parent.

when it comes down to it though, for lack of a class system based on
royal lineage, americans have come to use education and profession as
surrogates to nobility. if you pooh-pooh their MBA and resume, well,
you're pooh-poohing their claim to status.

i dwell within many different social circles and it gives me
opportunities for weird moments. just the other day i went to an event
where i met some of the most important sponsors of digital art in this
country. their combined worth was in the billions. it was a weird
moment of reckoning how with their jeans and somewhat shabby look they
were in the room soaking up the art vibes, so to speak. some of them
are related to the kids that appeared in the documentary "born rich"
(which aired on HBO and which i highly recommend). they are in such a
different social plane, it's amazing. college? formal education? what
for? it's more like a sport, something to keep themselves busy with.
it's not like some of them don't work (they do have professions and are
parts of executive boards and the like), but they don't live by their
work, their profession or their education (or lack thereof).

it's really, really interesting to be around people who have basically
been raised with the ''freedom" to do whatever they wanted to do with
their lives because money, class and education where never an issue.

l i z a
=========================
www.culturekitchen.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lyle W.

Kelly wrote:

>>It was to think that I'd had this long conversation, with women I thought I
could trust, who would hear me honestly. She only heard that I didn't think
formal education was important, thus her formal education was crap (never
said that, just for the record) and I was a bad parent.

-sigh-

I'm really hurt and angry about it. I seriously considered leaving the
group. I still do.<<

I don't hang around anyone that is consistently unsupportive. Asking questions about unschooling is one thing, but anyone that tears down what you choose to do isn't much of a friend.

Beware those that will lift themselves up by digging a hole under you.

Lyle

***Always remember, Lead By Example***

--
___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
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[email protected]

In a message dated 1/12/04 5:37:16 PM, WendyWCarr@... writes:

<< Now some of the other group members have kinda told
me that its wrong and just now one of them told me that only people with
higher education should unschool, and that you must be a very smart person
to unschool. >>

Are you aware of Howard Gardner's theories on "multiple intelligences"?
(Let us know if you're not, and we can review, but you could look at google
too if it's not something you've already run across). It would help you to
ask them which kinds of "smart" they think would be best for unschooling.

There are some "very smart" people who are likewise NOT "very smart" in one
area or another. Sometimes the husband and wife together get all the 7 to 9
intelligences covered; sometimes not. But it hardly matters.

What's important for unschoolers is to be interested in learning, to think
the world is a cool place, to be upbeat, to be imaginative and willing to go at
a child's pace sometimes, to seek out new inputs and opportunities for the
child, and not to screw him up.

That's my opinion, anyway.

I've known some people I didn't think would be successful at unschooling.
Some seemed "not bright" to me, but in the not sparkly, not quick to say "Sure!
Okay!" way. Some were dull in that they were cynical and declared at least
have the world to be "stupid" or "dumb" or "boring." That's an anchor in the
mud.

Some were so smart (in their own minds at least) they were unwilling to
consider that their children might know things they didn't know, or might have
really great ideas, so they managed their children's lives too much, and squelched
the kids' desire to initiate projects.

Some are too impatient. They'll give their kids six months to prove
unschooling works, oh well, it didn't, I think I'll put them in school and learn to sky
dive, oh, they hated that school so I put them in another school, it's
lovely, I think I'll leave my husband, oh, I broke a nail. (That needs to be
performed in the perky, quick, distracted voice of someone who's not paying any
attention to her audience, and then you see that she never slowed down long enough
to really hear and see her children, either.)


Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/12/04 6:03:38 PM, wifetovegman2002@... writes:

<< There are how many people on this list now? over
1600? >>

1376 when I read this. It will change by morning, by a few, I suppose, one
way or the other. (Usually up.)

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/12/2004 8:37:49 PM Central Standard Time, mina@...
writes:


> I'm really hurt and angry about it. I seriously considered leaving the
> group. I still do.
>

Sometimes we outgrow people and for our own sakes need to move on, I think it
all depends on how much time and patience we have to spare. Life is too short
to spend a lot of time dawdling with those who tear us down.
Laura Buoni


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/12/04 7:37:42 PM, mina@... writes:

<< Recently one of the mothers described me as "withholding an

education from my children." She implied, non too subtly, that I was a

neglectful parent. >>

You could tell her that maybe you're wrong, and she should wait a few years
and see how your child is doing.

I just got a Christmas letter from a friend of mine who confides in me. It
went to all her MANY relatives, and her husband's. Their kids were
mondo-schooled, and her daughter went off to Stanford, but dropped out without telling
people, moved in with a guy who's so far good for nothing (but might amount to
something eventually), has lied nine ways, cost them a TON of money for medical
evals for lupus, and then she doesn't do what the doctor says, etc., etc.,

They haven't heard from her for many weeks. Last spring when they thought
she was in school but she had dropped out, she travelled across the country
(they live in Virginia) and didn't call them or tell them she was in town (they
found out accidentally), and so forth.

Yet in their Christmas letter they told every possible positive thing about
her and didn't mention a single negative.

Don't trust every schooled child's mom's account of how wonderfully she's
doing.

If Kirby were screwing up like crazy I'd at least say "Kirby's going through
a non-communicative phase but we hear he is..." instead of going "LA LA LA
EVERYTHING IS PERFECT."

I have some side-by-side comparison families, whose kids are Kirby's age or a
bit older, and travelling to fancy this'n'that, or getting scholarships. I'm
unconcerned. A couple of them chose colleges really far away because they're
wound up like 13-year-school rubber bands and are launching themselves as far
away from mom as possible. The parents say "How nice, she's *so*
indePENdent!" and the kid rolls her eyes behind the mom's back where I can see it and
tells me later she's glad to be leaving.

I was glad to be leaving when I went to college. But I had just turned
seventeen, younger than Kirby is now, and that was the last of being parented for
me. Too soon, too soon; yet staying home had lost most nurturance.

Having a more comfortable nest, our kids' patterns for leaving will be
different.

The direct comparisons don't work so well, and it's not over 'til it's over.
Some people get into a hotshot job and don't last, or they end up too big too
quick, and ruin a marriage or lose a car and house, or or or...

Success isn't a snapshot thing. It's an ongoing state, and it REALLY needs
to take satisfaction, honesty, respect of friends and neighbors and other
factors than just money and level of education into account.

Sandra

Sandra

Wendy Carr

Well they are still posting in the thread, and saying that they are so
worried about college and that my son isnt going to be able to go cause he
wont know how to do anything beyond middleschool work. I guess I am just
very hurt because they have always been my "Friends" we were all pg together
and we tell each other everything....but never again.


>From: SandraDodd@...
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Another question
>Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:48:14 EST
>


Wendy Carr
When the first baby laughed for the first time, the laugh broke into a
thousand pieces and they all went skipping about, and that was the beginning
of fairies. - Barrie
Mom to Austyn(8) and Caitlin(5 months)

Proud To Home-school!

_________________________________________________________________
There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Learn more.
http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Danielle Conger

Sandra wrote:
There are some "very smart" people who are likewise NOT "very smart" in one
area or another. Sometimes the husband and wife together get all the 7 to 9
intelligences covered; sometimes not. But it hardly matters.
======================================================
Dh and I always joke that the kids will get my math and his language, and then they'll be really screwed! <lol>

I don't think having advanced degrees helps in any way with unschooling. The only way it might've helped with me is by making me keenly aware that I didn't want my children to feel that they had to go the education route. I never wanted them to feel that college was any better than carpentry, music or whatever other passion they develop. I think it also helped me when I taught to see how little college kids knew, how little many of them wanted to learn, and how many of them didn't have a clue why they were there.

What matters is a passion for learning, as others have said. Not to be mean, but I'd be far more concerned about someone, regardless of their own degrees, who felt they were just a servant to their children and didn't want to stop what they were doing to help a child figure something out, than a parent with a highschool diploma (or even without one of those!) genuinely and lovingly learning alongside her children. If you love your children and enjoy being with them, learning and discovering with them, allowing them to open the world to you through their eyes--that to me is a real education and one that is priceless!

--danielle

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

on 1/12/04 7:10 PM, Wendy Carr at WendyWCarr@... wrote:

> Now some of the other group members have kinda told
> me that its wrong and just now one of them told me that only people with
> higher education should unschool, and that you must be a very smart person
> to unschool.

What if they said that about your religion or your race?

Their remarks are coming from ignorance and prejudice. And fear.

The firmness of someone's conviction that they're right doesn't translate
into being right.

I assume the cyber relationship with these women is providing you with
something you need, but that need is being met at a price. The price is
ideas that are toxic to your understanding of unschooling. So you need to
choose: is the social bond or whatever you're getting more important than
embracing unschooling with a free heart?

An even better choice is to find another place that will give you both :-)

(Have you tried the message boards at Unschooling.com?)

Joyce

Wife2Vegman

--- Wendy Carr <WendyWCarr@...> wrote:
> Well they are still posting in the thread, and
> saying that they are so
> worried about college and that my son isnt going to
> be able to go cause he
> wont know how to do anything beyond middleschool
> work. I guess I am just
> very hurt because they have always been my "Friends"
> we were all pg together
> and we tell each other everything....but never
> again.


Wendy,

You could ask them how many books on unschooling they
have read, how many websites have they visited, how
many true unschoolers do they know, how many
discussion groups have they joined. If the answer is
none, which it probably is, then tell them they are
judging something they know nothing about. Give them
a list of books, websites, etc. to read, and tell them
that until they have, they are only showing their
ignorance. Then tell them you are leaving the group
and that you wish them well but you aren't going to
take the rude, insulting way they are treating you,
that you need to be with people who support you and
care about you.

Then come back here and post some more :-)

You can choose your cyber friends even more easily
than your real-life friends!



=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman

What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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[email protected]

In a message dated 1/13/04 2:07:42 AM, danielle.conger@... writes:

<< I don't think having advanced degrees helps in any way with unschooling.
>>

<<What matters is a passion for learning, as others have said.>>

With all that, I sometimes wish more unschooling parents would look into
child development, or that anyone who's going to homeschool, rather, would ALREADY
have read enough child development summary (it doesn't take much, a chart of
Piaget's developmental stages, maybe, while really looking around at real kids
to see what he's talking about) so that they wouldn't expect unreasonable
things of too-young children.

Very few unschoolers end up expecting too much too soon, but overall, a WHOLE
lot of perental frustration and unwise action and response could dissolve in
air and light if parents were aware that there are some kinds of thinking that
don't kick in until children are older.

It's something lots of people do learn in college, but it's certainly not
something someone needs college to learn!

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/13/04 5:28:09 AM, WendyWCarr@... writes:

<< Well they are still posting in the thread, and saying that they are so
worried about college and that my son isnt going to be able to go cause he
wont know how to do anything beyond middleschool work. >>

Maybe you could say that you wouldn't write about brain surgery if you didn't
really know what you were talking about, and they know less about unschooling
than you know about brain surgery, so maybe they should either read about it
or be quieter.

(Unless, of course, you know a lot about brain surgery, in which case replace
that with some other example. <g>)

Sandra

Kelly Lenhart

>when it comes down to it though, for lack of a class system based on
>royal lineage, americans have come to use education and profession as
>surrogates to nobility. if you pooh-pooh their MBA and resume, well,
>you're pooh-poohing their claim to status.

I've come to realize this. But I refuse to validate it for people. If your
education wasn't worth it, just as an education, that's your problem.
Partly, this attitude came out of the conversation we are talking about.

I value my time in college for many reasons. Including the things I learned
academically. I value the time I worked at a university for many reasons,
including the insights it gave me into formal learning. -smile-

Kelly

Barb Eaton

Wendy,
It will be up to your son and what _he_ wants to do. You and your family
are there to help that along. Getting into college isn't that hard for
unschoolers if they want it. Who knows what he may want or need to do. There
are so many paths he could take. College is but a small one in the grand
scheme of _life_ learning. There are ways around most obstacles that may
come up. We just have to look for them and sometimes create a few. Did you
read that John Holt interveiw/article in Mother that just went through? He
created his opportunity.

This may help to think about. My oldest (18) you read about just a few
post before. He's really a great young man. He is attending community
college here and doing well. He hasn't stepped in a classroom since spring
of 1996. We've unschooled from that beginning. He surprised himself in his
english class and really enjoyed it. So much so that he is considering
changing from a computer major to an english one. We'll see, he's enjoying
taking all different types of classes. He has a psychology class along with
another english this quarter that he really thinks he'll enjoy. his computer
classes are easy As for him. He's learned this stuff on his own. Our
relationship is strong and he hasn't had any trouble with anything he's done
considering who *I* am. ;-)

Don't let them get you down. You don't have to justify your choices.
You've already had some great responces here. It is hard to feel the hurt
but I've found that that is when I grow by solidifying my beleifs. Hang in
there, circles of friends change many times in a lifetime.

To give an example. I remember when I got married. I sent out 100
invitations to family and friends. At least a third I thought would attend
or at least acknowledge my wedding. It was a rude awakening for me. Turned
out I had a very small intimate wedding with immediate family and couple
friends. Most didn't even send a card. Stuff like that has happened several
time over the years. Not to that magnitude but still. Friends when we
started a family, Moms groups, Homeschool circles, now neighborhood friends.
Change can be a good expansion of who you are. Be strong in yourself. Well
I'm rambling now.


Barb E
"Each human being is bred with a unique set of potentials
that yearn to be fulfilled as surely as the acorn yearns
to become the oak within it."

- Aristotle, Philosopher





>
> Well they are still posting in the thread, and saying that they are so
> worried about college and that my son isnt going to be able to go cause he
> wont know how to do anything beyond middleschool work. I guess I am just
> very hurt because they have always been my "Friends" we were all pg together
> and we tell each other everything....but never again.
>

Wendy Carr

Thank you! You gals always know just what to say!
Wendy


>From: Barb Eaton <homemama@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Another question
>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:42:44 -0500
>


Wendy Carr
When the first baby laughed for the first time, the laugh broke into a
thousand pieces and they all went skipping about, and that was the beginning
of fairies. - Barrie
Mom to Austyn(8) and Caitlin(5 months)

Proud To Home-school!

_________________________________________________________________
Find high-speed �net deals � comparison-shop your local providers here.
https://broadband.msn.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

tjreynoso

> If your education wasn't worth it, just as an education, that's
your problem.

This is so true! I attended two years of engineering school but
never graduated. MJainly financial reasons. Now when Ii consider
going back to school, I have no drive to get a degree. Could care
less. I just want to take some interesting classes. When I discuss
this with others they don't get it. Why wouldn't I want a degree?
Why would I go to school if not for a degree? Well, because I'm a
learner by nature. A degree is just a consequence. If I can make
more money than great, but who cares if not. I just want to go for
learning's sake. It's sad to see people trudge through school, pay
thousands and have their bubble burst when they get a whiff of
what's out there. If I'm going to pay thousands of dollars then I'm
going to make sure I at least like it! Am I being unrealistic?

Barb Eaton

Nancy,
We have something else in common. My husband did the same thing. In
Hawaii of all places. He has also, at one time, taken college classes and
did very well. We love to learn. He's really close to getting his pilots
licence now. He's having a blast doing it too.

I love that last paragraph. It's how I feel too. I want them to be happy
in what they choose to do. I never could understand why, in high school, so
many were going after careers they cared nothing about just for the $$ it
represented. Making $$ is one thing but enjoying what you do is really where
it's at in my book. :-)


Barb E
"I'd rather be a failure at something I love than a
success at something I hate."


- George Burns, Entertainer



on 1/13/04 9:55 AM, [email protected] at
[email protected] wrote:

> Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscusion]
>
> I am just a high school graduate, and my husband dropped out (later earned a
> diploma in the military). But there are so many things I CAN do that many,
> MANY average mom's were never taught (sewing, altering, knitting, spinning,
> carding,
>
> But I seriously consider the kind of person they turn out to be the most
> important, high above academics. They're all easy to get along with, kind to
> others, crazy funny, independent, and strong in their convictions. I want
> them to
> know, above anything, that THEY can make their lives happy if they choose to
> be happy in whatever they do.
>
> Nancy B. in WV
>

Lyle W.

Sandra wrote:

"With all that, I sometimes wish more unschooling parents would look into
child development, or that anyone who's going to homeschool, rather, would ALREADY
have read enough child development summary (it doesn't take much, a chart of
Piaget's developmental stages, maybe, while really looking around at real kids
to see what he's talking about) so that they wouldn't expect unreasonable
things of too-young children."

I understand what you're saying, but I think it works both ways for some people too. If they 'know' when a child is 'supposed' to be able to do a certain thing, they worry when it doesn't happen. I've seen a lot of posts from different places that hint towards this. Maybe not always a full blown worry, but a nagging little pest in the back of their heads that just won't shut up.

Lyle



***Always remember, Lead By Example***

--
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Tia Leschke

>
>
>I assume the cyber relationship with these women is providing you with
>something you need, but that need is being met at a price. The price is
>ideas that are toxic to your understanding of unschooling. So you need to
>choose: is the social bond or whatever you're getting more important than
>embracing unschooling with a free heart?
>
>An even better choice is to find another place that will give you both :-)

There was a thread just recently called Good Parenting Mommy Lists with
lots of suggestions. My daughter likes http://pub3.ezboard.com/bsageparenting
Tia

Tia Leschke

>Well they are still posting in the thread, and saying that they are so
>worried about college and that my son isnt going to be able to go cause he
>wont know how to do anything beyond middleschool work. I guess I am just
>very hurt because they have always been my "Friends" we were all pg together
>and we tell each other everything....but never again.

I have to wonder about someone who is "so worried" about my son. I'm
assuming that these are people you don't even know in real life. Is it
perhaps projection of their own worries about their own kids that they
aren't willing to even look at?
Tia

Elizabeth Roberts

I don't think so! I've told Paul many times that I want to "go back to college" but I don't want a degree...at least, not at this point. I just want to take classes in things I'm truly interested in.

MamaBeth

tjreynoso <tjreynoso@...> wrote:
> If your education wasn't worth it, just as an education, that's
your problem.

This is so true! I attended two years of engineering school but
never graduated. MJainly financial reasons. Now when Ii consider
going back to school, I have no drive to get a degree. Could care
less. I just want to take some interesting classes. When I discuss
this with others they don't get it. Why wouldn't I want a degree?
Why would I go to school if not for a degree? Well, because I'm a
learner by nature. A degree is just a consequence. If I can make
more money than great, but who cares if not. I just want to go for
learning's sake. It's sad to see people trudge through school, pay
thousands and have their bubble burst when they get a whiff of
what's out there. If I'm going to pay thousands of dollars then I'm
going to make sure I at least like it! Am I being unrealistic?





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