RE: Preparing
Annette
I guess we aren't really preparing or kids for "jobs" in the future, but
more of a life, one to chose as they wish to live. And since I am so new
to unschooling, its hard to know, actually realize, that there ARE
choices. I am just still so programmed I guess. I have noticed in
letting go of things, that for me and people I know, reading for example
was just not done because it was expected of them and thus BORING. I
don't want to make Nicolas Have to do anything, but there are times that
I wonder if complete freedom to do what he will is helping at all.
How long does it take to really see any changes?? For example...I have a
problem with the television. Nicolas likes to watch TV ALL DAY LONG. I
have only seen him walk away a couple of times and returns to it at
once. He has toys galore to play with and arts and crafts things he can
do, books, go OUTSIDE for some AIR...yet he chooses to just sit and
watch TV. This is a concern for me, because he likes to watch the shows
that promote more violence and selfish attitude and less of a moral
theme. They also tend to get him VERY excited and I notice him acting
out a lot. I KNOW this happens. AND, the thing I most worry about is his
eating habits when in front of the TV...he will munch out of boredom and
this is just not healthy. He is a bit overweight already and snacking
all day wont help him. I have tried to "let go" and let him watch TV all
day. But, then he starts in with the bad attitude and the nasty tone of
speaking to all of us and I cant tolerate it. I know its not unschooling
if I limit, but then again...why should TV be such a HUGE part of
anyone's life? How would you guys go about this?? And, I will try not to
take offense!! LOL
Annette,Jason
& Our 3 Boujas
Nicolas, Joseph
& peanut due 1/12/04
more of a life, one to chose as they wish to live. And since I am so new
to unschooling, its hard to know, actually realize, that there ARE
choices. I am just still so programmed I guess. I have noticed in
letting go of things, that for me and people I know, reading for example
was just not done because it was expected of them and thus BORING. I
don't want to make Nicolas Have to do anything, but there are times that
I wonder if complete freedom to do what he will is helping at all.
How long does it take to really see any changes?? For example...I have a
problem with the television. Nicolas likes to watch TV ALL DAY LONG. I
have only seen him walk away a couple of times and returns to it at
once. He has toys galore to play with and arts and crafts things he can
do, books, go OUTSIDE for some AIR...yet he chooses to just sit and
watch TV. This is a concern for me, because he likes to watch the shows
that promote more violence and selfish attitude and less of a moral
theme. They also tend to get him VERY excited and I notice him acting
out a lot. I KNOW this happens. AND, the thing I most worry about is his
eating habits when in front of the TV...he will munch out of boredom and
this is just not healthy. He is a bit overweight already and snacking
all day wont help him. I have tried to "let go" and let him watch TV all
day. But, then he starts in with the bad attitude and the nasty tone of
speaking to all of us and I cant tolerate it. I know its not unschooling
if I limit, but then again...why should TV be such a HUGE part of
anyone's life? How would you guys go about this?? And, I will try not to
take offense!! LOL
Annette,Jason
& Our 3 Boujas
Nicolas, Joseph
& peanut due 1/12/04
Lyle W.
How long have you been unschooling/deschooling?
Lyle
Lyle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Annette" <boujamama@...>
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:52:58 -0500
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] RE: Preparing
> I guess we aren't really preparing or kids for "jobs" in the future, but
> more of a life, one to chose as they wish to live. And since I am so new
> to unschooling, its hard to know, actually realize, that there ARE
> choices. I am just still so programmed I guess. I have noticed in
> letting go of things, that for me and people I know, reading for example
> was just not done because it was expected of them and thus BORING. I
> don't want to make Nicolas Have to do anything, but there are times that
> I wonder if complete freedom to do what he will is helping at all.
>
> How long does it take to really see any changes?? For example...I have a
> problem with the television. Nicolas likes to watch TV ALL DAY LONG. I
> have only seen him walk away a couple of times and returns to it at
> once. He has toys galore to play with and arts and crafts things he can
> do, books, go OUTSIDE for some AIR...yet he chooses to just sit and
> watch TV. This is a concern for me, because he likes to watch the shows
> that promote more violence and selfish attitude and less of a moral
> theme. They also tend to get him VERY excited and I notice him acting
> out a lot. I KNOW this happens. AND, the thing I most worry about is his
> eating habits when in front of the TV...he will munch out of boredom and
> this is just not healthy. He is a bit overweight already and snacking
> all day wont help him. I have tried to "let go" and let him watch TV all
> day. But, then he starts in with the bad attitude and the nasty tone of
> speaking to all of us and I cant tolerate it. I know its not unschooling
> if I limit, but then again...why should TV be such a HUGE part of
> anyone's life? How would you guys go about this?? And, I will try not to
> take offense!! LOL
>
> Annette,Jason
> & Our 3 Boujas
> Nicolas, Joseph
> & peanut due 1/12/04
>
>
>
>
***Always remember, Lead By Example***
--
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Wife2Vegman
--- Annette <boujamama@...> wrote:
"What am I not doing with them that they can watch tv
all day long?"
Are you playing games and interacting with him several
hours a day? Do you have him help you make cookies and
go to the store and hang out the laundry and take him
to the park or playground? Are you reading books he
likes to him and washing the puppy and taking long
walks in the woods?
Unschooling isn't about letting the kids go it alone.
It is about freeing them up and helping them discover.
Unschooling actually seems to take more parental
involvement than school-out-of-a-box homeschooling.
Just my .02,
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
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>When my kids start watching endless tv I ask myself,
> How long does it take to really see any changes??
> For example...I have a
> problem with the television. Nicolas likes to watch
> TV ALL DAY LONG. I
> have only seen him walk away a couple of times and
> returns to it at
> once.
"What am I not doing with them that they can watch tv
all day long?"
Are you playing games and interacting with him several
hours a day? Do you have him help you make cookies and
go to the store and hang out the laundry and take him
to the park or playground? Are you reading books he
likes to him and washing the puppy and taking long
walks in the woods?
Unschooling isn't about letting the kids go it alone.
It is about freeing them up and helping them discover.
Unschooling actually seems to take more parental
involvement than school-out-of-a-box homeschooling.
Just my .02,
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/
Dawn Adams
Annette writes:
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I have tried to "let go" and let him watch TV allI'm not sure how to handle it but I don't think 'no limits' should supercede treating his family well. I was spending too much time on the internet at one point and it was hurting my kids and my family. I had to change my habits. Talk with him about his behaviour maybe? Sit down and watch the questionable shows with him? I don't think the answer is to switch off the TV and censor his shows however. I'm sure you'll get more help from other onthe list.
>day. But, then he starts in with the bad attitude and the nasty tone of
>speaking to all of us and I cant tolerate it. I know its not unschooling
>if I limit, but then again...why should TV be such a HUGE part of
>anyone's life? How would you guys go about this?? And, I will try not to
>take offense!! LOL
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah Lewis
*** He has toys galore to play with and arts and crafts things he can
do, books, go OUTSIDE for some AIR...yet he chooses to just sit and
watch TV. ***
How old is he? I notice you're expecting a new baby, (congratulations!)
has your time with Nicolas been limited lately? Is he getting people
time from the TV that he might not be getting from you because you're
more tired right now?
If he's feeling separated from you at the moment I think it's smart of
him, human of him, to seek out other people. He's found some on TV that
are pretty interesting.
Even though he has all those toys and books and art supplies he probably
wants someone to interact with while he does them. He might not be
choosing them because if it's people time he's craving those things won't
fulfill him if his only option is doing them alone.
***the thing I most worry about is his
eating habits when in front of the TV...he will munch out of boredom and
this is just not healthy. ***
***But, then he starts in with the bad attitude and the nasty tone of
speaking to all of us and I cant tolerate it.***
I think all the claims about TV affecting behavior and attitude are
hooey. I think what affects behavior and attitude is feeling like no one
wants to do anything with you so TV is all there is. And I think not
eating the right kinds of protein and energy supplying foods makes a
little body tired and grumpy and uncomfortable. So, maybe you could
make a nice plate of cheese cubes and sliced apples or something and sit
with him and hold his hand and be lovey, and talk about what he likes
about the program. You could offer to play a game you know he likes.
You could offer to read to him, go for a walk with him, play with toys
with him. If you offer, take into consideration the thing he's watching
might really be important to him and he might like to watch it to the
end. Maybe together you could find a great time for playing or reading.
Even if he still prefers to watch TV you could be there with him some of
the time, talking to him, playing a little, touching him.
Would he like to sleep with you at night and is that possible? Creating
closeness between you will decrease his need for finding companionship
through television, if that's what he's doing.
Deb L
do, books, go OUTSIDE for some AIR...yet he chooses to just sit and
watch TV. ***
How old is he? I notice you're expecting a new baby, (congratulations!)
has your time with Nicolas been limited lately? Is he getting people
time from the TV that he might not be getting from you because you're
more tired right now?
If he's feeling separated from you at the moment I think it's smart of
him, human of him, to seek out other people. He's found some on TV that
are pretty interesting.
Even though he has all those toys and books and art supplies he probably
wants someone to interact with while he does them. He might not be
choosing them because if it's people time he's craving those things won't
fulfill him if his only option is doing them alone.
***the thing I most worry about is his
eating habits when in front of the TV...he will munch out of boredom and
this is just not healthy. ***
***But, then he starts in with the bad attitude and the nasty tone of
speaking to all of us and I cant tolerate it.***
I think all the claims about TV affecting behavior and attitude are
hooey. I think what affects behavior and attitude is feeling like no one
wants to do anything with you so TV is all there is. And I think not
eating the right kinds of protein and energy supplying foods makes a
little body tired and grumpy and uncomfortable. So, maybe you could
make a nice plate of cheese cubes and sliced apples or something and sit
with him and hold his hand and be lovey, and talk about what he likes
about the program. You could offer to play a game you know he likes.
You could offer to read to him, go for a walk with him, play with toys
with him. If you offer, take into consideration the thing he's watching
might really be important to him and he might like to watch it to the
end. Maybe together you could find a great time for playing or reading.
Even if he still prefers to watch TV you could be there with him some of
the time, talking to him, playing a little, touching him.
Would he like to sleep with you at night and is that possible? Creating
closeness between you will decrease his need for finding companionship
through television, if that's what he's doing.
Deb L
Lyle W.
Annette wrote:
~~How long does it take to really see any changes??~~
It's different with everyone, but it also takes a change in the parent's view of things to be able to notice the changes. What is it that you're looking for to change? Whatever it is, make sure you're not waiting for him to start doing 'schoolish' things on his own.
~~Nicolas likes to watch TV ALL DAY LONG.~~
~~He has toys galore to play with and arts and crafts things he can
do, books, go OUTSIDE for some AIR...yet he chooses to just sit and
watch TV.~~
Are you playing with him? Are you doing arts and crafts with him? Reading to/with him? Going outside with him? Those things may not seem fun if he feels like he's left to himself to do them. Sometimes doing things with someone is a lot more enjoyable than just having a big pile of stuff sitting there waiting for someone to 'do' it.
~~I know its not unschooling
if I limit, but then again...why should TV be such a HUGE part of
anyone's life?~~
Everyone is different. Why should reading be such a huge part of someone's life? Or building? Or cleaning? Or singing?
Maybe right now he LIKES the TV. Maybe next month he'll be into something else. I would sit and watch his shows with him, talk to him about them, ask questions why he likes this show over that one, etc.
If you could give us some more info it would be helpful. How old is he? How long have you been unschooling? Did he go to school before this? What did he like to do before he started on his TV binge?
If you feel like you're in a rut with him, get out of the house! Change things around. New things to see and explore. New places to shop. Anything to change what you're doing will help. And it will help you as much as it will him.
If you can give us a better picture of what's going on maybe we can help more.
Lyle
***Always remember, Lead By Example***
--
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~~How long does it take to really see any changes??~~
It's different with everyone, but it also takes a change in the parent's view of things to be able to notice the changes. What is it that you're looking for to change? Whatever it is, make sure you're not waiting for him to start doing 'schoolish' things on his own.
~~Nicolas likes to watch TV ALL DAY LONG.~~
~~He has toys galore to play with and arts and crafts things he can
do, books, go OUTSIDE for some AIR...yet he chooses to just sit and
watch TV.~~
Are you playing with him? Are you doing arts and crafts with him? Reading to/with him? Going outside with him? Those things may not seem fun if he feels like he's left to himself to do them. Sometimes doing things with someone is a lot more enjoyable than just having a big pile of stuff sitting there waiting for someone to 'do' it.
~~I know its not unschooling
if I limit, but then again...why should TV be such a HUGE part of
anyone's life?~~
Everyone is different. Why should reading be such a huge part of someone's life? Or building? Or cleaning? Or singing?
Maybe right now he LIKES the TV. Maybe next month he'll be into something else. I would sit and watch his shows with him, talk to him about them, ask questions why he likes this show over that one, etc.
If you could give us some more info it would be helpful. How old is he? How long have you been unschooling? Did he go to school before this? What did he like to do before he started on his TV binge?
If you feel like you're in a rut with him, get out of the house! Change things around. New things to see and explore. New places to shop. Anything to change what you're doing will help. And it will help you as much as it will him.
If you can give us a better picture of what's going on maybe we can help more.
Lyle
***Always remember, Lead By Example***
--
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Annette
> How long have you been unschooling/deschooling?We have only been home schooling this year and since the beginning we
>
> Lyle
hit MANY road bumps with the lets sits down and do work thing, so I
figured I would let him lead me in what he wants to do and when. He just
doesn't seem interested in much at all. When he does ask me something, I
try to give him an answer, but it seems he wants a short one word answer
and loses interest quickly. I just figure he is not ready for much yet.
Maybe he is a slower starter than others.
Annette,Jason
& Our 3 Boujas
Nicolas, Joseph
& peanut due 1/12/04
J. Stauffer
.<<<<<..I have a
From an unschooling perspective, I think the first question to ask yourself
is...does NICOLAS have a problem with TV? The issue is about him, not you
(I always hate that part <grin>).
Then, does the fact that YOU have a problem with tv indicate to Nicolas that
he better hurry up and watch it before you get fed up and decide to take his
freedom away again?
I used to be very controlling about the tv, naps, bedtimes, you name it, I
controlled it....all in the name of doing what was "best" for my kids. When
we completely let go about 3 years ago, Adriane was 10. She sat in a
recliner and watched tv for about 3 months. I mean she rarely moved at all.
She got grumpy and mean which is very much against her nature so I pointed
out that lots of people and animals get grumpy when they aren't getting much
movement, much fresh air, etc..
Adriane ignored that advice....can you imagine that <grin>? She continued
to sit and watch....then I noticed her flipping channels more. So I would
invite her on outings with me and the younger kids. Sometimes she would go
(I would point out that she seemed happier being out of the house....I never
demonized tv, just talked about what was happening to her body).
Eventually, she made the connection about too much sedantary life and not
feeling well.
She now goes in spurts. Somedays she is up in her room reading and doing
jigsaw puzzles all day, or maybe out playing with the little kids (they
built a launcher and send my son flying through the air), or she might watch
tv all day. But I notice that most of what she watches is dealing with
relationships, social interaction, morals, etc., stuff a 13yo is dealing
with in her head that she may or may not want to share with her mom.
In defense of "fluff" tv, Adriane used to watch all the Disney teenie-bopper
shows over and over, Lizzie Mcguire, Smart Kid, Sister Sister. I truly
thought my head might explode, then something happened to make me realize
there is no such thing as "fluff" tv, books, music, anything.....that it ALL
counts as Sandra says.
When she was about 11, Adriane was watching a show and the joke was that a
black kid didn't know who Harriett Tubman was. Adriane laughed like she got
the joke. I asked her if she knew who Ms. Tubman was and she said yes. She
had learned about the underground railroad watching Sister Sister. Go
figure.
Sorry its so long....just wanted to say, relax, enjoy.
Julie S.
> problem with the television. Nicolas likes to watch TV ALL DAY LONG.>>>>*******************************************
From an unschooling perspective, I think the first question to ask yourself
is...does NICOLAS have a problem with TV? The issue is about him, not you
(I always hate that part <grin>).
Then, does the fact that YOU have a problem with tv indicate to Nicolas that
he better hurry up and watch it before you get fed up and decide to take his
freedom away again?
I used to be very controlling about the tv, naps, bedtimes, you name it, I
controlled it....all in the name of doing what was "best" for my kids. When
we completely let go about 3 years ago, Adriane was 10. She sat in a
recliner and watched tv for about 3 months. I mean she rarely moved at all.
She got grumpy and mean which is very much against her nature so I pointed
out that lots of people and animals get grumpy when they aren't getting much
movement, much fresh air, etc..
Adriane ignored that advice....can you imagine that <grin>? She continued
to sit and watch....then I noticed her flipping channels more. So I would
invite her on outings with me and the younger kids. Sometimes she would go
(I would point out that she seemed happier being out of the house....I never
demonized tv, just talked about what was happening to her body).
Eventually, she made the connection about too much sedantary life and not
feeling well.
She now goes in spurts. Somedays she is up in her room reading and doing
jigsaw puzzles all day, or maybe out playing with the little kids (they
built a launcher and send my son flying through the air), or she might watch
tv all day. But I notice that most of what she watches is dealing with
relationships, social interaction, morals, etc., stuff a 13yo is dealing
with in her head that she may or may not want to share with her mom.
In defense of "fluff" tv, Adriane used to watch all the Disney teenie-bopper
shows over and over, Lizzie Mcguire, Smart Kid, Sister Sister. I truly
thought my head might explode, then something happened to make me realize
there is no such thing as "fluff" tv, books, music, anything.....that it ALL
counts as Sandra says.
When she was about 11, Adriane was watching a show and the joke was that a
black kid didn't know who Harriett Tubman was. Adriane laughed like she got
the joke. I asked her if she knew who Ms. Tubman was and she said yes. She
had learned about the underground railroad watching Sister Sister. Go
figure.
Sorry its so long....just wanted to say, relax, enjoy.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Annette" <boujamama@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 8:52 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] RE: Preparing
> I guess we aren't really preparing or kids for "jobs" in the future, but
> more of a life, one to chose as they wish to live. And since I am so new
> to unschooling, its hard to know, actually realize, that there ARE
> choices. I am just still so programmed I guess. I have noticed in
> letting go of things, that for me and people I know, reading for example
> was just not done because it was expected of them and thus BORING. I
> don't want to make Nicolas Have to do anything, but there are times that
> I wonder if complete freedom to do what he will is helping at all.
>
> How long does it take to really see any changes?? For example I
> have only seen him walk away a couple of times and returns to it at
> once. He has toys galore to play with and arts and crafts things he can
> do, books, go OUTSIDE for some AIR...yet he chooses to just sit and
> watch TV. This is a concern for me, because he likes to watch the shows
> that promote more violence and selfish attitude and less of a moral
> theme. They also tend to get him VERY excited and I notice him acting
> out a lot. I KNOW this happens. AND, the thing I most worry about is his
> eating habits when in front of the TV...he will munch out of boredom and
> this is just not healthy. He is a bit overweight already and snacking
> all day wont help him. I have tried to "let go" and let him watch TV all
> day. But, then he starts in with the bad attitude and the nasty tone of
> speaking to all of us and I cant tolerate it. I know its not unschooling
> if I limit, but then again...why should TV be such a HUGE part of
> anyone's life? How would you guys go about this?? And, I will try not to
> take offense!! LOL
>
> Annette,Jason
> & Our 3 Boujas
> Nicolas, Joseph
> & peanut due 1/12/04
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
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>
>
[email protected]
It sounds like you might be suffering from a kind of reverse-placebo
effect, where your expectations delay or prevent the effect from occurring, or
at least delay or prevent your recognizing it.
In other words, you may not see what you're hoping for while you're so
fixated on it.
Meanwhile, maybe you could comfort yourself with this gem from a
professional hs evaluator here who unschools her own sons and counsels new hsers
worried about academics: If they're breathing, they're learning!
boujamama@... writes:
effect, where your expectations delay or prevent the effect from occurring, or
at least delay or prevent your recognizing it.
In other words, you may not see what you're hoping for while you're so
fixated on it.
Meanwhile, maybe you could comfort yourself with this gem from a
professional hs evaluator here who unschools her own sons and counsels new hsers
worried about academics: If they're breathing, they're learning!
boujamama@... writes:
> We have only been home schooling this year and since the beginning we[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> hit MANY road bumps with the lets sits down and do work thing, so I
> figured I would let him lead me in what he wants to do and when. He just
> doesn't seem interested in much at all. When he does ask me something, I
> try to give him an answer, but it seems he wants a short one word answer
> and loses interest quickly. I just figure he is not ready for much yet.
> Maybe he is a slower starter than others.
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/29/03 8:08:05 PM, boujamama@... writes:
<< Nicolas likes to watch TV ALL DAY LONG. I
have only seen him walk away a couple of times and returns to it at
once. He has toys galore to play with and arts and crafts things he can
do, books, go OUTSIDE for some AIR...yet he chooses to just sit and
watch TV. >>
If my only choices were my back yard and TV or toys I had already played
with, I would probably watch TV.
If my choice was going to do something cool like a museum or a hike or lunch
at a new place or to see dogs do tricks, I'd rather do those things than watch
TV.
<<How long does it take to really see any changes?? >>
Have you really changed?
Are you just leaving them at home day after day hoping they'll find the whole
world at home? Get out into the outside world more often!
<<This is a concern for me, because he likes to watch the shows
that promote more violence and selfish attitude and less of a moral
theme. They also tend to get him VERY excited and I notice him acting
out a lot. I KNOW this happens.>>
Do you watch with him? I think spending your time separate from him could
be the problem. Rent videos you would both enjoy and discuss the stories,
the filmaking, the locations, the acting, the characters.
<<AND, the thing I most worry about is his
eating habits when in front of the TV...he will munch out of boredom and
this is just not healthy. He is a bit overweight already and snacking
all day wont help him.>>
Is he making his own snacks? Take him good food once in a while.
If he's bored, you're not doing as good an unschooling-mom job as you could
be doing.
<< I have tried to "let go" and let him watch TV all day.>>
Letting go of controlls isnt the whole deal. You need to create a rich
environment, and provide stimulating experiences. Even though unschooling isn't
teaching from a curriculum, it's not something kids should or can be expected to
do themselves. You should still be spending LOTS of time with them, on them,
around them.
<<But, then he starts in with the bad attitude and the nasty tone of
speaking to all of us and I cant tolerate it. I know its not unschooling
if I limit>>
It's not unschooling if you ignore him and build up resentment about him not
doing your job, either.
Sandra
<< Nicolas likes to watch TV ALL DAY LONG. I
have only seen him walk away a couple of times and returns to it at
once. He has toys galore to play with and arts and crafts things he can
do, books, go OUTSIDE for some AIR...yet he chooses to just sit and
watch TV. >>
If my only choices were my back yard and TV or toys I had already played
with, I would probably watch TV.
If my choice was going to do something cool like a museum or a hike or lunch
at a new place or to see dogs do tricks, I'd rather do those things than watch
TV.
<<How long does it take to really see any changes?? >>
Have you really changed?
Are you just leaving them at home day after day hoping they'll find the whole
world at home? Get out into the outside world more often!
<<This is a concern for me, because he likes to watch the shows
that promote more violence and selfish attitude and less of a moral
theme. They also tend to get him VERY excited and I notice him acting
out a lot. I KNOW this happens.>>
Do you watch with him? I think spending your time separate from him could
be the problem. Rent videos you would both enjoy and discuss the stories,
the filmaking, the locations, the acting, the characters.
<<AND, the thing I most worry about is his
eating habits when in front of the TV...he will munch out of boredom and
this is just not healthy. He is a bit overweight already and snacking
all day wont help him.>>
Is he making his own snacks? Take him good food once in a while.
If he's bored, you're not doing as good an unschooling-mom job as you could
be doing.
<< I have tried to "let go" and let him watch TV all day.>>
Letting go of controlls isnt the whole deal. You need to create a rich
environment, and provide stimulating experiences. Even though unschooling isn't
teaching from a curriculum, it's not something kids should or can be expected to
do themselves. You should still be spending LOTS of time with them, on them,
around them.
<<But, then he starts in with the bad attitude and the nasty tone of
speaking to all of us and I cant tolerate it. I know its not unschooling
if I limit>>
It's not unschooling if you ignore him and build up resentment about him not
doing your job, either.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/30/03 6:28:39 AM, unschoolingdad@... writes:
<< I would sit and watch his shows with him, talk to him about them, ask
questions why he likes this show over that one, etc. >>
I have a warning to offer about this.
Don't ask in a belittling and judgmental way if you can avoid it. Don't say
"Why could you possibly like THIS stupid show? It's ridiculous. I can't
believe anyone would watch it. " Not even a little of it, if you can help it.
My mom used to tell me The Friendly Giant was a stupid show, and I should
turn it off.
The Friendly Giant was being nicer to me than my mom was, by FAR, even before
she came in and reminded me that she was ignorant and hateful.
Holly likes Fear Factor and Ripley's Believe it or Not. I've teased her a
little bit, and I regret it.
Marty likes Jerry Springer. He knows it's mostly bogus stuff, but it's so
far out of his own experience (since he lives in a peaceful place without
exposure to insane relatives, unlike my own childhood) he's interested. I've
teased him a bit, andI wish I hadn't.
So what I decided to do was to tell them stories about my own childhood
fascinations. The National Enquirer started off not being about celebrities at
all, but about gruesome car wrecks, trainwrecks, and violent unsolved crimes.
Or freakish happenings like people down wells, earthquake photos (before you
could get live satellite video), and a man who saved his wife when she fell by
grabbing her by her long braids and pulling her up.
I liked those photos a LOT when I was a kid.
And I told them about Queen for a Day, one of the most pathetic tv shows
EVER, which I also watched as a child, feeling my compassion well up for that poor
family living without electricity who only wanted a hand-crank washing
machine (or whatever the sad stories were). I missed the Depression and WWII, but
the 50's could be sad enough.
I wasn't saying "I'm so proud of you for watching freak shows on TV," I was
saying "I understand the urge; did it myself, though I had to augment with
newsprint."
Sandra
<< I would sit and watch his shows with him, talk to him about them, ask
questions why he likes this show over that one, etc. >>
I have a warning to offer about this.
Don't ask in a belittling and judgmental way if you can avoid it. Don't say
"Why could you possibly like THIS stupid show? It's ridiculous. I can't
believe anyone would watch it. " Not even a little of it, if you can help it.
My mom used to tell me The Friendly Giant was a stupid show, and I should
turn it off.
The Friendly Giant was being nicer to me than my mom was, by FAR, even before
she came in and reminded me that she was ignorant and hateful.
Holly likes Fear Factor and Ripley's Believe it or Not. I've teased her a
little bit, and I regret it.
Marty likes Jerry Springer. He knows it's mostly bogus stuff, but it's so
far out of his own experience (since he lives in a peaceful place without
exposure to insane relatives, unlike my own childhood) he's interested. I've
teased him a bit, andI wish I hadn't.
So what I decided to do was to tell them stories about my own childhood
fascinations. The National Enquirer started off not being about celebrities at
all, but about gruesome car wrecks, trainwrecks, and violent unsolved crimes.
Or freakish happenings like people down wells, earthquake photos (before you
could get live satellite video), and a man who saved his wife when she fell by
grabbing her by her long braids and pulling her up.
I liked those photos a LOT when I was a kid.
And I told them about Queen for a Day, one of the most pathetic tv shows
EVER, which I also watched as a child, feeling my compassion well up for that poor
family living without electricity who only wanted a hand-crank washing
machine (or whatever the sad stories were). I missed the Depression and WWII, but
the 50's could be sad enough.
I wasn't saying "I'm so proud of you for watching freak shows on TV," I was
saying "I understand the urge; did it myself, though I had to augment with
newsprint."
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/30/03 9:07:45 AM, jrossedd@... writes:
<< In other words, you may not see what you're hoping for while you're so
fixated on it. >>
Or you might be looking for a moth and ignoring all those butterflies coming
out and flying around.
I went to find a link to an article just to find it's not online. Huh.
Bummer.
Here it is:
appeared in Nov/Dec 2001 HEM
You'll See It When You Believe It
Following years of sporadic claims by people who claimed they had tried
unschooling but it hadn't worked for them, I started tracking their similarities
and, as usual, I learned something new. And, as usual, I thought I should share
it so others might not have to wonder for ten years.
So here is a snapshot of what I thought I knew when I sat down to write this
one day not too long ago: Some people don't know what unschooling is supposed
to look like.
If I went to the flea market to buy a torque wrench but I didn't know what
one looked like, I would have a pretty hard time just finding one by looking
around. It probably wouldn't be on a table with clocks made of cross-cut cedar.
Looking through a tray of cassette tapes wouldn't help. It would be
especially difficult if I didn't even know what a torque wrench was for. I might look
all through those wirey-boards and steel boxes computer-repair guy brought.
I could look for hours through cloth and paperback books and come home saying
"Going to the flea market for a torque wrench doesn't work."
I used to go to the flea market regularly, pre-motherhood, to buy medieval-
and Rennaisance-suggesting things to re-sell in the SCA. It was fun. I used
to make enough to pay our way to tournaments by setting up my little homemade
tent and some tables covered with pewter and silver-plated bowls and plates,
cast aluminum tankards or goblets, hand-blown glasses from Mexico, fur collars,
little wooden jewelry chests, old-looking jewelry, leather bags, brocade
curtains (without fiberglass or rubber), interesting little knives, wooden trays
and bowls, and so forth. I'd sell them cheap, too. I learned a lot doing that,
and had fun.
The Albuquerque flea market is huge. I would stand, walk, and pull my cart
for two or three hours, scanning for shiny metal dishes, wood, leather, certain
designs. But most of the stuff got only enough glance to determine it was
NOT what I was looking for. I ignored piles of baby clothes, electronics,
plastics and hand tools. Many a torque wrench lay unseen.
Unschoolers come away from a small school and into the big wide world. Some
say "Here is the wide world, and we will be in it and learn from everything
around us." Then they proceed to scan specifically for math, history, science,
reading and writing. Because they went to school, math to them looks like
flat paper with numbers on it. History looks like books many words and a few
maps and illustrations, all arranged in chronological order. Science is wide
open—it might be a microscope, or a bug cage or some rocks and a magnifying
glass, until the kids are older, and then it will start looking like numbers on
flat paper, or maybe a book on anatomy, or the feared and revered "Periodic Chart
of the Elements." Reading and writing should look like reading and writing
have always looked—books without illustrations (eventually, and the sooner and
thicker the better), and reports with straight margins and numbered pages.
They scan their children's lives every day for schoolish things. They're
looking for spiral notebooks and they ignore sunsets. Looking for a 50-minute
session of history to prove attention span, they miss a pioneer dress-up game
and an attempt to build a catapult.
As a final stop before giving up, some come and declare their failure to
those who told them about unschooling. They tell us it didn't work for their
family, and that after all, they are the experts in their children, and so they
know that their own family is not creative enough to unschool, and their
children crave structure. Sometimes it seems they think those who say "Unschooling
is So COOL!" are deluded nuts who don't care much about their children. Other
times I think they see our children as brilliant and theirs as dullards.
Now I have come to believe that they just ignored the million things looking
for the five or six.
They thought if they left the kid alone for a month he might spontaneously
create a four-subject routine, with some music, art and sports put in for
extracurricular balance. They envisioned that their child might say, at the age of
fourteen (give or take a few) years, "I'm ready to learn biology now," which
would be the beginning of nine months of study, with three dissections and some
tadpole measuring, maybe some plant genetics. By May they should declare
whether they were more interested in botany or life sciences (step one in "do you
want to go to medical school?").
When a science-minded kid loves to take the dog down by the river and look
for wild berries and snakes, some parents say, "My kid just wants to play. He's
not interested in learning. He'll never learn science just playing."
Each little experience, every idea, is helping your child build his internal
model of the universe. He will not have the government-recommended blueprint
for the internal model of the universe, which can look surprisingly like a
school, and a political science class, a small flat map of the huge spherical
world, a job with increasing vacations leading to retirement, and not a lot more.
Unschooled children can organize their knowledge in free and better ways.
They never need to feel they are through learning, or past the point that they
can begin something new. Each thing they discover can be useful eventually.
If we help provide them with ever-changing opportunities to see, hear, smell,
taste, feel, move and discuss, what they know will exceed in breadth and depth
what any school's curriculum would have covered. It won't be the same set of
materials—it will be clearer and larger but different.
"How will they learn everything they need to know?"
Do the best of the high school graduates know everything they need to know?
No, and at some point, ideally, they start learning on their own. Some fail
to get to that point, though. Unschooled kids have a head start. They know
how to find what they need to know, and they have not been trained to ignore
things that won't be on the test.
When parents see how and what their children are actually learning instead of
just scanning for the half dozen school-things, unschooling will make sense
to the parents. If you wait for school to congeal from a busy life, you'll
keep being disappointed. If you learn to see everything instead of just school
things, unschooling will start working for you. When you see it you will
believe it.
==================
Sandra
<< In other words, you may not see what you're hoping for while you're so
fixated on it. >>
Or you might be looking for a moth and ignoring all those butterflies coming
out and flying around.
I went to find a link to an article just to find it's not online. Huh.
Bummer.
Here it is:
appeared in Nov/Dec 2001 HEM
You'll See It When You Believe It
Following years of sporadic claims by people who claimed they had tried
unschooling but it hadn't worked for them, I started tracking their similarities
and, as usual, I learned something new. And, as usual, I thought I should share
it so others might not have to wonder for ten years.
So here is a snapshot of what I thought I knew when I sat down to write this
one day not too long ago: Some people don't know what unschooling is supposed
to look like.
If I went to the flea market to buy a torque wrench but I didn't know what
one looked like, I would have a pretty hard time just finding one by looking
around. It probably wouldn't be on a table with clocks made of cross-cut cedar.
Looking through a tray of cassette tapes wouldn't help. It would be
especially difficult if I didn't even know what a torque wrench was for. I might look
all through those wirey-boards and steel boxes computer-repair guy brought.
I could look for hours through cloth and paperback books and come home saying
"Going to the flea market for a torque wrench doesn't work."
I used to go to the flea market regularly, pre-motherhood, to buy medieval-
and Rennaisance-suggesting things to re-sell in the SCA. It was fun. I used
to make enough to pay our way to tournaments by setting up my little homemade
tent and some tables covered with pewter and silver-plated bowls and plates,
cast aluminum tankards or goblets, hand-blown glasses from Mexico, fur collars,
little wooden jewelry chests, old-looking jewelry, leather bags, brocade
curtains (without fiberglass or rubber), interesting little knives, wooden trays
and bowls, and so forth. I'd sell them cheap, too. I learned a lot doing that,
and had fun.
The Albuquerque flea market is huge. I would stand, walk, and pull my cart
for two or three hours, scanning for shiny metal dishes, wood, leather, certain
designs. But most of the stuff got only enough glance to determine it was
NOT what I was looking for. I ignored piles of baby clothes, electronics,
plastics and hand tools. Many a torque wrench lay unseen.
Unschoolers come away from a small school and into the big wide world. Some
say "Here is the wide world, and we will be in it and learn from everything
around us." Then they proceed to scan specifically for math, history, science,
reading and writing. Because they went to school, math to them looks like
flat paper with numbers on it. History looks like books many words and a few
maps and illustrations, all arranged in chronological order. Science is wide
open—it might be a microscope, or a bug cage or some rocks and a magnifying
glass, until the kids are older, and then it will start looking like numbers on
flat paper, or maybe a book on anatomy, or the feared and revered "Periodic Chart
of the Elements." Reading and writing should look like reading and writing
have always looked—books without illustrations (eventually, and the sooner and
thicker the better), and reports with straight margins and numbered pages.
They scan their children's lives every day for schoolish things. They're
looking for spiral notebooks and they ignore sunsets. Looking for a 50-minute
session of history to prove attention span, they miss a pioneer dress-up game
and an attempt to build a catapult.
As a final stop before giving up, some come and declare their failure to
those who told them about unschooling. They tell us it didn't work for their
family, and that after all, they are the experts in their children, and so they
know that their own family is not creative enough to unschool, and their
children crave structure. Sometimes it seems they think those who say "Unschooling
is So COOL!" are deluded nuts who don't care much about their children. Other
times I think they see our children as brilliant and theirs as dullards.
Now I have come to believe that they just ignored the million things looking
for the five or six.
They thought if they left the kid alone for a month he might spontaneously
create a four-subject routine, with some music, art and sports put in for
extracurricular balance. They envisioned that their child might say, at the age of
fourteen (give or take a few) years, "I'm ready to learn biology now," which
would be the beginning of nine months of study, with three dissections and some
tadpole measuring, maybe some plant genetics. By May they should declare
whether they were more interested in botany or life sciences (step one in "do you
want to go to medical school?").
When a science-minded kid loves to take the dog down by the river and look
for wild berries and snakes, some parents say, "My kid just wants to play. He's
not interested in learning. He'll never learn science just playing."
Each little experience, every idea, is helping your child build his internal
model of the universe. He will not have the government-recommended blueprint
for the internal model of the universe, which can look surprisingly like a
school, and a political science class, a small flat map of the huge spherical
world, a job with increasing vacations leading to retirement, and not a lot more.
Unschooled children can organize their knowledge in free and better ways.
They never need to feel they are through learning, or past the point that they
can begin something new. Each thing they discover can be useful eventually.
If we help provide them with ever-changing opportunities to see, hear, smell,
taste, feel, move and discuss, what they know will exceed in breadth and depth
what any school's curriculum would have covered. It won't be the same set of
materials—it will be clearer and larger but different.
"How will they learn everything they need to know?"
Do the best of the high school graduates know everything they need to know?
No, and at some point, ideally, they start learning on their own. Some fail
to get to that point, though. Unschooled kids have a head start. They know
how to find what they need to know, and they have not been trained to ignore
things that won't be on the test.
When parents see how and what their children are actually learning instead of
just scanning for the half dozen school-things, unschooling will make sense
to the parents. If you wait for school to congeal from a busy life, you'll
keep being disappointed. If you learn to see everything instead of just school
things, unschooling will start working for you. When you see it you will
believe it.
==================
Sandra
Mary
From: "Annette" <boujamama@...>
<<How long does it take to really see any changes?? >>
Longer than you have given it and it will come with more changes from you.
<<Nicolas likes to watch TV ALL DAY LONG. I
have only seen him walk away a couple of times and returns to it at
once.>>
Okay now we know he really doesn't watch tv "all day long." There are park
days and sports camp days and up until recently he was swimming every day
too, (inside information!) wasn't he? No tv there. So tv all day long means
more than you are comfortable with. And that's okay, it just means it's a
problem for you and not him. Plus you have said that there are times when
you just can't take it anymore and turn it off and make him do other things.
So that is a limit on him and he's probably not comfortable with turning it
off himself because he never knows when you might come and do that. Best to
get in all the tv time he can before that happens.
I know you think tv is waste of time or not at all the uselful tool some
think it to be. Again fine for you. But Nicolas is obviously getting
something from it that isn't coming from other things he could be doing. Sit
with him and find out what those things are. Maybe from watching and talking
to him about the shows, no matter how stupid you think they are, you can
find that he does have other interests besides just sitting. He's not just
sitting, there are things going on his mind that would probably astound
you!!
Also keep track of the times he isn't watching tv and let those times
convince you he isn't watching all day long. Instead of focusing on how much
he watches, start with how much he doesn't. I bet as time goes on, if you
can let go of the limits, those non watching times will decrease. If you
can't let go of the limits, just be aware that his tv time will be more
important to him than ever because he won't know when it ends.
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
<<How long does it take to really see any changes?? >>
Longer than you have given it and it will come with more changes from you.
<<Nicolas likes to watch TV ALL DAY LONG. I
have only seen him walk away a couple of times and returns to it at
once.>>
Okay now we know he really doesn't watch tv "all day long." There are park
days and sports camp days and up until recently he was swimming every day
too, (inside information!) wasn't he? No tv there. So tv all day long means
more than you are comfortable with. And that's okay, it just means it's a
problem for you and not him. Plus you have said that there are times when
you just can't take it anymore and turn it off and make him do other things.
So that is a limit on him and he's probably not comfortable with turning it
off himself because he never knows when you might come and do that. Best to
get in all the tv time he can before that happens.
I know you think tv is waste of time or not at all the uselful tool some
think it to be. Again fine for you. But Nicolas is obviously getting
something from it that isn't coming from other things he could be doing. Sit
with him and find out what those things are. Maybe from watching and talking
to him about the shows, no matter how stupid you think they are, you can
find that he does have other interests besides just sitting. He's not just
sitting, there are things going on his mind that would probably astound
you!!
Also keep track of the times he isn't watching tv and let those times
convince you he isn't watching all day long. Instead of focusing on how much
he watches, start with how much he doesn't. I bet as time goes on, if you
can let go of the limits, those non watching times will decrease. If you
can't let go of the limits, just be aware that his tv time will be more
important to him than ever because he won't know when it ends.
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
Lyle W.
<< I would sit and watch his shows with him, talk to him about them, ask
questions why he likes this show over that one, etc. >>
I have a warning to offer about this.
Don't ask in a belittling and judgmental way if you can avoid it. Don't say
"Why could you possibly like THIS stupid show? It's ridiculous. I can't
believe anyone would watch it. " Not even a little of it, if you can help it.~~
Good point. Always talk to your kids like you're talking to an adult. (Or at least someone you have respect for, lol.) Listen to what you're saying to them, and ask yourself how you would feel if someone was talking to you in the same way. If you feel good about it, cool! If not, then don't say it!
Lyle
***Always remember, Lead By Example***
--
___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
questions why he likes this show over that one, etc. >>
I have a warning to offer about this.
Don't ask in a belittling and judgmental way if you can avoid it. Don't say
"Why could you possibly like THIS stupid show? It's ridiculous. I can't
believe anyone would watch it. " Not even a little of it, if you can help it.~~
Good point. Always talk to your kids like you're talking to an adult. (Or at least someone you have respect for, lol.) Listen to what you're saying to them, and ask yourself how you would feel if someone was talking to you in the same way. If you feel good about it, cool! If not, then don't say it!
Lyle
***Always remember, Lead By Example***
--
___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
Mary
Dawn Adams
Sandra writes:
\Sandra wirtes:
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>The Friendly Giant was being nicer to me than my mom was, by FAR, even beforeWeird woman. :) That was one of the gentlest, calmest, most intelligent children's shows...Ever. Loved it.
>she came in and reminded me that she was ignorant and hateful.
\Sandra wirtes:
>I liked those photos a LOT when I was a kid.With that one sentence you reminded me of a small hobby I had as a kid that would consume LOTS of time. Mom and Dad sold Amway (the cultish feel later drove them away) and got magazines with pages of pictures of people who'd made a new level. Just headshots. I used to pore over them, determine who suited who the best and match them up for marriage. :)
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Wishbone@... writes:
catalogues. Very absorbing, with backstories for all of them. And it never
occurred to me to "play" it with anyone. I was relating to the paper people
directly, like some omniscient being. <G>
Come to think of it, my dd did this with stuffed animals, and later ds
did with HIS stuffed animals, but I never connected that as being the same as
my catalogue people until just now. I hadn't thought about that "hobby" in
decades.
(Wonder if this is what Sims are all about, too? ) JJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> With that one sentence you reminded me of a small hobby I had as a kidI used to do this (even make whole families) using Sears and Roebuck
> that would consume LOTS of time. Mom and Dad sold Amway (the cultish feel later
> drove them away) and got magazines with pages of pictures of people who'd
> made a new level. Just headshots. I used to pore over them, determine who
> suited who the best and match them up for marriage. :)
>
catalogues. Very absorbing, with backstories for all of them. And it never
occurred to me to "play" it with anyone. I was relating to the paper people
directly, like some omniscient being. <G>
Come to think of it, my dd did this with stuffed animals, and later ds
did with HIS stuffed animals, but I never connected that as being the same as
my catalogue people until just now. I hadn't thought about that "hobby" in
decades.
(Wonder if this is what Sims are all about, too? ) JJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lenhart
> (Wonder if this is what Sims are all about, too? ) JJAnd I, and everyone else who writes FanFiction, does this with TV shows or
movies. That's why I could never understand people complaining about "just
watching TV." It's always been a very rich experience for me, even when I'm
"just veging"
Kelly
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/30/03 10:49:59 AM, mummy124@... writes:
<< Great article Sandra. I never read that one before. >>
Thanks.
I guess not many people had! <g> (Not counting when it was in the current
issue.)
I've put it here:
http://sandradodd.com/seeingit
and there's another new one up (an old one I had forgotten about)
here:
http://sandradodd.com/president
"You Could Grow Up to be President"
<< Great article Sandra. I never read that one before. >>
Thanks.
I guess not many people had! <g> (Not counting when it was in the current
issue.)
I've put it here:
http://sandradodd.com/seeingit
and there's another new one up (an old one I had forgotten about)
here:
http://sandradodd.com/president
"You Could Grow Up to be President"
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/30/03 11:10:13 AM, Wishbone@... writes:
<< Mom and Dad sold Amway (the cultish feel later drove them away) and got
magazines with pages of pictures of people who'd made a new level. Just
headshots. I used to pore over them, determine who suited who the best and match them
up for marriage. :)
probably had the giddy appearance and sparkly eyes of people in love. Good
time for photos to get married.
Sandra
<< Mom and Dad sold Amway (the cultish feel later drove them away) and got
magazines with pages of pictures of people who'd made a new level. Just
headshots. I used to pore over them, determine who suited who the best and match them
up for marriage. :)
>>And those headshots were taken at a moment of great success for them, so they
probably had the giddy appearance and sparkly eyes of people in love. Good
time for photos to get married.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/30/03 11:23:19 AM, jrossedd@... writes:
<< I used to do this (even make whole families) using Sears and Roebuck
catalogues. Very absorbing, with backstories for all of them. And it never
occurred to me to "play" it with anyone. I was relating to the paper people
directly, like some omniscient being. <G>
<< Come to think of it, my dd did this with stuffed animals, and later
ds
did with HIS stuffed animals, >>
Two of Holly's ponies were married recently. Nobody else was invited. Holly
was there. She did take photos, though, of the ceremony and the happy couple
posing together afterward, and she showed us the photos.
Sandra
<< I used to do this (even make whole families) using Sears and Roebuck
catalogues. Very absorbing, with backstories for all of them. And it never
occurred to me to "play" it with anyone. I was relating to the paper people
directly, like some omniscient being. <G>
<< Come to think of it, my dd did this with stuffed animals, and later
ds
did with HIS stuffed animals, >>
Two of Holly's ponies were married recently. Nobody else was invited. Holly
was there. She did take photos, though, of the ceremony and the happy couple
posing together afterward, and she showed us the photos.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/30/03 11:32:02 AM, mina@... writes:
<< And I, and everyone else who writes FanFiction, does this with TV shows or
movies. That's why I could never understand people complaining about "just
watching TV." It's always been a very rich experience for me, even when I'm
"just veging" >>
Kirby's playing a new X-Box game. Pirates of the Carribean. You have to
recruit a crew for your ship, learn to read maps and avoid storms, etc. If too
many on your crew have a negative attitude, your crew won't work together well,
so when you're recruiting, it said, you don't want people with bad attitudes.
He said "What is 'elated'?" And I said really happy, so happy you feel
light and airy. That was a good crew member to have, I guess!
He's playing with sailors and informants, suppliers, good guys and bad guys.
Sandra
<< And I, and everyone else who writes FanFiction, does this with TV shows or
movies. That's why I could never understand people complaining about "just
watching TV." It's always been a very rich experience for me, even when I'm
"just veging" >>
Kirby's playing a new X-Box game. Pirates of the Carribean. You have to
recruit a crew for your ship, learn to read maps and avoid storms, etc. If too
many on your crew have a negative attitude, your crew won't work together well,
so when you're recruiting, it said, you don't want people with bad attitudes.
He said "What is 'elated'?" And I said really happy, so happy you feel
light and airy. That was a good crew member to have, I guess!
He's playing with sailors and informants, suppliers, good guys and bad guys.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/30/03 12:01:15 PM, SandraDodd@... writes:
<< I guess not many people had! <g> (Not counting when it was in the current
issue.) >>
Doh. I mean not counting when the issue it was in was current.
Sorry.
<< I guess not many people had! <g> (Not counting when it was in the current
issue.) >>
Doh. I mean not counting when the issue it was in was current.
Sorry.
Deborah Lewis
***I used to do this (even make whole families) using Sears and Roebuck
catalogues. Very absorbing, with backstories for all of them. And it
never
occurred to me to "play" it with anyone. I was relating to the paper
people
directly, like some omniscient being. <G> ***
People in the Sears catalog were my victims. My brother and I used to
"tie" them to the rail road tracks ( he had a Lionel train) and we'd see
how many times the train could run them over before they were cut into
pieces. I don't think any of them were married first but I would have
loved the idea of hysterical loved ones watching the approaching train in
horror.
Deb L
catalogues. Very absorbing, with backstories for all of them. And it
never
occurred to me to "play" it with anyone. I was relating to the paper
people
directly, like some omniscient being. <G> ***
People in the Sears catalog were my victims. My brother and I used to
"tie" them to the rail road tracks ( he had a Lionel train) and we'd see
how many times the train could run them over before they were cut into
pieces. I don't think any of them were married first but I would have
loved the idea of hysterical loved ones watching the approaching train in
horror.
Deb L
TreeGoddess
My sister and I used to use a kid's beach bucket for Barbie's swimming
pool and while all the Barbies were enjoying their leisurely swim a Ken
head would fly into the pool out of nowhere (well, obviously it was one
of us popping his head off and tossing it into the bucket for kicks).
We'd make all the dolls scream in horror and try to stampede out of
their pool while they all screamed "Dead head!!!!" (not in reference to
the Grateful Dead's fans lol). Good times! ;)
-Tracy-
pool and while all the Barbies were enjoying their leisurely swim a Ken
head would fly into the pool out of nowhere (well, obviously it was one
of us popping his head off and tossing it into the bucket for kicks).
We'd make all the dolls scream in horror and try to stampede out of
their pool while they all screamed "Dead head!!!!" (not in reference to
the Grateful Dead's fans lol). Good times! ;)
-Tracy-
On Dec 30, 2003, at 2:18 PM, Deborah Lewis wrote:
> People in the Sears catalog were my victims. My brother and I used to
> "tie" them to the rail road tracks ( he had a Lionel train) and we'd
> see
> how many times the train could run them over before they were cut into
> pieces. I don't think any of them were married first but I would have
> loved the idea of hysterical loved ones watching the approaching train
> in
> horror.
TreeGoddess
Oh, I so loved The Friendly Giant. When he'd put all the little
furniture back in place at the end of the show I would get so choked up
because I didn't want to "leave" his house yet.
-Tracy-
furniture back in place at the end of the show I would get so choked up
because I didn't want to "leave" his house yet.
-Tracy-
On Dec 30, 2003, at 12:03 PM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
> My mom used to tell me The Friendly Giant was a stupid show, and I
> should
> turn it off.
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/30/03 12:21:54 PM, ddzimlew@... writes:
<< People in the Sears catalog were my victims. My brother and I used to
"tie" them to the rail road tracks ( he had a Lionel train) and we'd see
how many times the train could run them over before they were cut into
pieces. I don't think any of them were married first but I would have
loved the idea of hysterical loved ones watching the approaching train in
horror. >>
And you grew up violent?
(Maybe you got it out of your system. <G>)
Do you ever imagine people who piss you off being photographed, published,
cut out and put on the Lionel tracks?
If so, I guess catalogs and model trains are just as dangerous to developing
psyches as toy guns and watching westers and cop shows.
(They probably are exactly as dangerous, which is to say *not.*)
Sandra
<< People in the Sears catalog were my victims. My brother and I used to
"tie" them to the rail road tracks ( he had a Lionel train) and we'd see
how many times the train could run them over before they were cut into
pieces. I don't think any of them were married first but I would have
loved the idea of hysterical loved ones watching the approaching train in
horror. >>
And you grew up violent?
(Maybe you got it out of your system. <G>)
Do you ever imagine people who piss you off being photographed, published,
cut out and put on the Lionel tracks?
If so, I guess catalogs and model trains are just as dangerous to developing
psyches as toy guns and watching westers and cop shows.
(They probably are exactly as dangerous, which is to say *not.*)
Sandra
Lyle W.
~~If so, I guess catalogs and model trains are just as dangerous to developing
psyches as toy guns and watching westers and cop shows.
(They probably are exactly as dangerous, which is to say *not.*)
Sandra~~
I think what's dangerous is so many people blindly listening to (and believing in) some of the crackpot 'experts' and their theories on raising children.
An idiot can go to college and get an 'education', but what you may end up with is an educated idiot.
Lyle
***Always remember, Lead By Example***
--
___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
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psyches as toy guns and watching westers and cop shows.
(They probably are exactly as dangerous, which is to say *not.*)
Sandra~~
I think what's dangerous is so many people blindly listening to (and believing in) some of the crackpot 'experts' and their theories on raising children.
An idiot can go to college and get an 'education', but what you may end up with is an educated idiot.
Lyle
***Always remember, Lead By Example***
--
___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/30/03 1:25:55 PM, unschoolingdad@... writes:
<< An idiot can go to college and get an 'education', but what you may end up
with is an educated idiot. >>
You might just get an idiot with a diploma who never understood anything and
doesn't remember the short-term-memory memorization he did for the tests.
An idiot with college-loan debt. <g>
Sandra
<< An idiot can go to college and get an 'education', but what you may end up
with is an educated idiot. >>
You might just get an idiot with a diploma who never understood anything and
doesn't remember the short-term-memory memorization he did for the tests.
An idiot with college-loan debt. <g>
Sandra
J. Stauffer
<<<He's playing with sailors and informants, suppliers, good guys and bad
guys>>>
******************************************
One of my school-at-home friends was over the other day after we had gone to
see "The Last Samurai" and she was telling me how she didn't know much about
Japanese history, how interesting the movie had been, etc.. Then it came up
that she couldn't wait for Christmas vacation to be over so the kids could
get back to learning. Their minds were going to mush from just playing
video games all day. (Of course, I'm thinking who made the rules of
Christmas vacation for homeschoolers?)
I asked if she thought her kids would be willing to help me figure out how
to play "Romance VII", a game set during the Samurai period but that was
rather complicated. I told her it involved role playing, decision making, a
study of history, strategy, etc.. My kids are gone for a week and I thought
it would be nice to be able to show them how to play when they got back.
My friend looked at me like I grew 2 heads. She said she was sure they
would love it but the point was she didn't want them playing any more vidoe
games.
I continue to be baffled at why parents think it is necessary to suck all
the joy out of their kids' days. <sigh>
Julie S.
guys>>>
******************************************
One of my school-at-home friends was over the other day after we had gone to
see "The Last Samurai" and she was telling me how she didn't know much about
Japanese history, how interesting the movie had been, etc.. Then it came up
that she couldn't wait for Christmas vacation to be over so the kids could
get back to learning. Their minds were going to mush from just playing
video games all day. (Of course, I'm thinking who made the rules of
Christmas vacation for homeschoolers?)
I asked if she thought her kids would be willing to help me figure out how
to play "Romance VII", a game set during the Samurai period but that was
rather complicated. I told her it involved role playing, decision making, a
study of history, strategy, etc.. My kids are gone for a week and I thought
it would be nice to be able to show them how to play when they got back.
My friend looked at me like I grew 2 heads. She said she was sure they
would love it but the point was she didn't want them playing any more vidoe
games.
I continue to be baffled at why parents think it is necessary to suck all
the joy out of their kids' days. <sigh>
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] RE: Preparing
>
> In a message dated 12/30/03 11:32:02 AM, mina@... writes:
>
> << And I, and everyone else who writes FanFiction, does this with TV shows
or
>
> movies. That's why I could never understand people complaining about
"just
>
> watching TV." It's always been a very rich experience for me, even when
I'm
>
> "just veging" >>
>
> Kirby's playing a new X-Box game. Pirates of the Carribean. You have to
> recruit a crew for your ship, learn to read maps and avoid storms, etc.
If too
> many on your crew have a negative attitude, your crew won't work together
well,
> so when you're recruiting, it said, you don't want people with bad
attitudes.
> He said "What is 'elated'?" And I said really happy, so happy you feel
> light and airy. That was a good crew member to have, I guess!
>
> .
>
> Sandra
>
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