Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Radical v Regular?
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/25/2003 9:55:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
But we're describing something you *could* be thinking if you turned five
degrees and looked with your eyes squinted and honestly tried to see what
we're
trying to describe. We're not trying to criticize you. We're trying to give
you a priceless gift.
Sandra
That's nice, Sandra and others. I have been reading along and see what you
are intending. Good stuff imo.
Sometimes when I use the phrase "have to" in the standard way it is used in
English I mean it in the if-then way -- really it's how real life works for me.
If I want to pay the bills, I "have to" go put money in the bank. I could
ignore the bills. I could buy money orders. I could pay some in cash. But the
shorthand way people talk is to say "I have to go to the bank now." It's not that
deep. Unless somebody wants to think that my bill-paying habits are something
worth deep contemplation.
OTOH sometimes using the phrase "have to" may be a bad habit that needs to be
corrected in our thinking -- to help expand the possibilities. Sometimes
using the phrase "have to" is an everyday expression about how the day needs to go
to get from point A to point B. Two usages.
The frustration I sense in this thread is coming from a failure to
acknowledge both meanings and usages.
Heck, there are probably more than two, but if Johnny wants to get to point
B, he may "have to" pass through point A. He may be choosing both. Now I "have
to" go warm up the coffee -- because I choose to have another cup. :)
Nance (who spent most of yesterday afternoon explaining hsing to an Uncle who
was truly nice and supportive but astonished -- the word "unschooling" was
mentioned, but really in passing -- just the idea of hsing was big news! :) )
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
But we're describing something you *could* be thinking if you turned five
degrees and looked with your eyes squinted and honestly tried to see what
we're
trying to describe. We're not trying to criticize you. We're trying to give
you a priceless gift.
Sandra
That's nice, Sandra and others. I have been reading along and see what you
are intending. Good stuff imo.
Sometimes when I use the phrase "have to" in the standard way it is used in
English I mean it in the if-then way -- really it's how real life works for me.
If I want to pay the bills, I "have to" go put money in the bank. I could
ignore the bills. I could buy money orders. I could pay some in cash. But the
shorthand way people talk is to say "I have to go to the bank now." It's not that
deep. Unless somebody wants to think that my bill-paying habits are something
worth deep contemplation.
OTOH sometimes using the phrase "have to" may be a bad habit that needs to be
corrected in our thinking -- to help expand the possibilities. Sometimes
using the phrase "have to" is an everyday expression about how the day needs to go
to get from point A to point B. Two usages.
The frustration I sense in this thread is coming from a failure to
acknowledge both meanings and usages.
Heck, there are probably more than two, but if Johnny wants to get to point
B, he may "have to" pass through point A. He may be choosing both. Now I "have
to" go warm up the coffee -- because I choose to have another cup. :)
Nance (who spent most of yesterday afternoon explaining hsing to an Uncle who
was truly nice and supportive but astonished -- the word "unschooling" was
mentioned, but really in passing -- just the idea of hsing was big news! :) )
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lyle W.
~~Now I "have
to" go warm up the coffee -- because I choose to have another cup.~~
Or...."now I'm GOING to warm up the coffee..."
:)
Lyle
***Always remember, Lead By Example***
--
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to" go warm up the coffee -- because I choose to have another cup.~~
Or...."now I'm GOING to warm up the coffee..."
:)
Lyle
***Always remember, Lead By Example***
--
___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/26/03 7:26:03 AM, marbleface@... writes:
<< But the
shorthand way people talk is to say "I have to go to the bank now." It's not
that
deep. Unless somebody wants to think that my bill-paying habits are something
worth deep contemplation.
But if people here said "You're choosing to go to the bank," I would say
"Yes, you're right. I want to go now because Kirby needs the van at 11:30 and I
want to have cash this afternoon" or whatever.
I need a few things before tomorrow when we're having company. I'll ask
Keith if he needs to go to Costco, and if he's going I'll probably just ask him to
get these things too. I could go and buy them myself. I could call and ask
someone who's coming to pick them up and bring them. Lots of choices. I
don't have to go to the store. And we don't "have to" have these things. I could
change the food plan a little. It's SO much more relaxed seeing the world as
a set of choices than as a narrow path of have tos.
A couple of weeks ago Kirby was bugging me. Nearly every thing he said was
irritating me. I know the instincts are kicking in that will enable him to
move out. They're coming in me too, but I don't want to rush him away, so I try
to breathe and be logical and sweet. What I said was that I thought he might
want to work on his pull-down menus, Terminator style. I told him it seemed
sometimes he wasn't thinking before he spoke, but just saying the first thing
that came to mind without regard to whether it was the best thing he could
have said. I reminded him that if he considers two or three things and chooses
the best one, he's making a choice. And if his pulldown menu only had two
things that wasn't the best he could do. So I made it funny, with the
"Terminator menu" visual idea, but I was serious. He wasn't making choices, except in
choosing not to choose.
I think sometimes people use "have to" in that way. "I had no choice."
Sandra
<< But the
shorthand way people talk is to say "I have to go to the bank now." It's not
that
deep. Unless somebody wants to think that my bill-paying habits are something
worth deep contemplation.
>>Right!!
But if people here said "You're choosing to go to the bank," I would say
"Yes, you're right. I want to go now because Kirby needs the van at 11:30 and I
want to have cash this afternoon" or whatever.
I need a few things before tomorrow when we're having company. I'll ask
Keith if he needs to go to Costco, and if he's going I'll probably just ask him to
get these things too. I could go and buy them myself. I could call and ask
someone who's coming to pick them up and bring them. Lots of choices. I
don't have to go to the store. And we don't "have to" have these things. I could
change the food plan a little. It's SO much more relaxed seeing the world as
a set of choices than as a narrow path of have tos.
A couple of weeks ago Kirby was bugging me. Nearly every thing he said was
irritating me. I know the instincts are kicking in that will enable him to
move out. They're coming in me too, but I don't want to rush him away, so I try
to breathe and be logical and sweet. What I said was that I thought he might
want to work on his pull-down menus, Terminator style. I told him it seemed
sometimes he wasn't thinking before he spoke, but just saying the first thing
that came to mind without regard to whether it was the best thing he could
have said. I reminded him that if he considers two or three things and chooses
the best one, he's making a choice. And if his pulldown menu only had two
things that wasn't the best he could do. So I made it funny, with the
"Terminator menu" visual idea, but I was serious. He wasn't making choices, except in
choosing not to choose.
I think sometimes people use "have to" in that way. "I had no choice."
Sandra
J. Stauffer
>>>> Right!!11:30 and I
>
> But if people here said "You're choosing to go to the bank," I would say
> "Yes, you're right. I want to go now because Kirby needs the van at
> want to have cash this afternoon" or whatever.>>>*******************************************
This is all I have been saying. But for some reason when I say something
like "because Kirby needs..." I get responses that life is all choices and
does he really "need" it.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Radical v Regular?
>
> In a message dated 12/26/03 7:26:03 AM, marbleface@... writes:
>
> << But the
> shorthand way people talk is to say "I have to go to the bank now." It's
not
> that
> deep. Unless somebody wants to think that my bill-paying habits are
something
> worth deep contemplation.
> >>
>
>
> I need a few things before tomorrow when we're having company. I'll ask
> Keith if he needs to go to Costco, and if he's going I'll probably just
ask him to
> get these things too. I could go and buy them myself. I could call and
ask
> someone who's coming to pick them up and bring them. Lots of choices. I
> don't have to go to the store. And we don't "have to" have these things.
I could
> change the food plan a little. It's SO much more relaxed seeing the world
as
> a set of choices than as a narrow path of have tos.
>
> A couple of weeks ago Kirby was bugging me. Nearly every thing he said
was
> irritating me. I know the instincts are kicking in that will enable him
to
> move out. They're coming in me too, but I don't want to rush him away, so
I try
> to breathe and be logical and sweet. What I said was that I thought he
might
> want to work on his pull-down menus, Terminator style. I told him it
seemed
> sometimes he wasn't thinking before he spoke, but just saying the first
thing
> that came to mind without regard to whether it was the best thing he could
> have said. I reminded him that if he considers two or three things and
chooses
> the best one, he's making a choice. And if his pulldown menu only had two
> things that wasn't the best he could do. So I made it funny, with the
> "Terminator menu" visual idea, but I was serious. He wasn't making
choices, except in
> choosing not to choose.
>
> I think sometimes people use "have to" in that way. "I had no choice."
>
> Sandra
>
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Fetteroll
on 12/26/03 9:25 AM, marbleface@... at marbleface@... wrote:
despite the words we use. But this list is different.
So I think it's a lack of understanding that on this list that using words
to precisely represent what we mean is important. (In fact it's so important
that we made it one of our posting suggestions.) When people use words
casually, discussions go on and on (as it did) because people aren't all
getting the same picture of what the situation is like and they can all be
discussing something different.
Joyce
> The frustration I sense in this thread is coming from a failure toIn casual conversation, yes, we depend on people to catch our meaning
> acknowledge both meanings and usages.
despite the words we use. But this list is different.
So I think it's a lack of understanding that on this list that using words
to precisely represent what we mean is important. (In fact it's so important
that we made it one of our posting suggestions.) When people use words
casually, discussions go on and on (as it did) because people aren't all
getting the same picture of what the situation is like and they can all be
discussing something different.
Joyce