[email protected]

In a message dated 12/23/2003 5:06:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
wifetovegman2002@... writes:
This child makes
us late for just about everything.

My mom says to just leave her a few times, and she
will get the message.

This seems mean and punitive to me, and yet could also
be seen as "natural consequences" of not being ready
when the rest of us are.



My dear son, who doesn't set the alarm clock is the one who makes US late for
everything. No matter the amount of warning, no matter is it's an event that
HE planned. He takes FOREVER to get ready. In his mind he times the trip by
the number of miles to go. Never accounting for traffic, finding a place to
park, possibly needing gas, or any small delay.

He will absolutely not come out the door one minute sooner than he thinks it
takes to get to wherever we are headed. It infuriates the other children
sometimes, sometimes it doesn't really matter, many times it does.

I'm not sure what to do other than just leaving him either. He barely has
any hair, doesn't wear make up, so I simply can't see what the hold up is. Six
people can get ready, sharing one bath and a half, while he has one whole bath
to himself and STILL can't manage to get ready.

I look forward to hearing others solutions to this.

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/23/2003 3:06:16 PM Mountain Standard Time,
wifetovegman2002@... writes:
-=-We end up with the family all sitting in the car ready
to go while this one is still changing clothes, fixing
hair, make up, etc., puttering around in the bedroom
doing whatever it is that kids do. This child makes
us late for just about everything.-=-

If she's old enough to put on make up, she's too old for you to get her ready.

I would tell her about an hour before time to get ready right then, make-up
and all. Jacket in hand. If she said "I need to eat" or "I'm playing this
game" or "I have to call someone" I would say "Okay Get ready and THEN
play/eat/call."

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wife2Vegman

--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
>
> If she's old enough to put on make up, she's too old
> for you to get her ready.
>
> I would tell her about an hour before time to get
> ready right then, make-up
> and all. Jacket in hand. If she said "I need to
> eat" or "I'm playing this
> game" or "I have to call someone" I would say "Okay
> Get ready and THEN
> play/eat/call."
>
> Sandra


What if then she is not ready when it is time to
leave? Should we leave her home? I mean, sometimes
it doesn't matter what we are going to, as to whether
she is with us or not, or if we are late by 20
minutes, but I don't want to do it just to "teach her
a lesson" either.

I mean, if we are just going shopping it doesn't
really matter if we leave 20 minutes later than I
thought, but if we are going to the movies or to
church or to a basketball game, then it matters to
those in the car, those we might be meeting, and we
miss part of whatever the event is.

It sounds like I am asking permission to leave her
home, doesn't it? LOL! Sigh...I'm so wishy washy
when it comes to anything that seems remotely punitive
since we have done away with punishment.

Maybe I should view it as helping her become more
responsible?

Susan the Wishy-Washy


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[email protected]

In a message dated 12/23/2003 5:04:08 PM Mountain Standard Time,
wifetovegman2002@... writes:
-=-What if then she is not ready when it is time to
leave? Should we leave her home? -=-


Without trying the advice it's too soon to ask "what if it doesn't work?"

We've had kids get ready first and THEN play/eat. It seems to work.
Gradually they learn to time it out better.

If we're ready to go and someone is TRULY not ready, I just say "We need to
GO. Come on. Bring your shoes and put them on in the car."

I would not be above saying 'You're really pissing me off now, get in the
damned car," and waking that one up earlier the next time.

But honestly, because we're patient with each other habitually, everyone here
has become really cooperative. I'm more likely than anyone to think of two
more things just as we're leaving (forgot to feed the cats; back door's not
locked; forgot to set the VCR to tape, or whatever), and the kids are patient
with it.

Is it possibly passive-aggressive behavior because she's frustrated with one
or more people in the family and wants to get at them? If not, I'd just say
to ask her earlier to get ready sooner. "Too soon." And she might take the
whole time still.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wife2Vegman

--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/23/2003 5:04:08 PM Mountain
> Standard Time,
> wifetovegman2002@... writes:
> -=-What if then she is not ready when it is time to
> leave? Should we leave her home? -=-
>
>
> Without trying the advice it's too soon to ask "what
> if it doesn't work?"

Whoops! You're right! I'm doing that "only two
options" thing again! One of these days I will not
have to stop myself and think, "what are the other
options besides the two I am imagining?"


>
> We've had kids get ready first and THEN play/eat.
> It seems to work.
> Gradually they learn to time it out better.
>
>
> Is it possibly passive-aggressive behavior because
> she's frustrated with one
> or more people in the family and wants to get at
> them? If not, I'd just say
> to ask her earlier to get ready sooner. "Too soon."
> And she might take the
> whole time still.

No, she just seems to be in her own world, and I have
not been really honest about how frustrating it is to
constantly be late.

Time for a trip to Dairy Queen with her, and a
friendly talk. Well, maybe not until this weekend ;-)



=====
--Susan in Sterling, VA

"This child is a natural product. The slight variations in growth,
development and temperament enhance his or her individual character
and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects." -- from the unschoolingdiscussion email list

__________________________________
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J. Stauffer

<<<< It sounds like I am asking permission to leave her
> home, doesn't it? LOL! Sigh...I'm so wishy washy
> when it comes to anything that seems remotely punitive
> since we have done away with punishment.>>>>

I think what helps me draw the line is would I do it to an adult. If my dh
continually dawdled and dragged his feet and made the family late, how would
I handle it? I would probably talk with him about how it affects others. I
would probably make sure he was aware of when we needed to leave. If it
continued, I would probably leave without him.

I had to leave my son a few times....Zach, the one who wasn't getting ready
for shooting....he would do absolutely nothing to get ready to go until I
told everyone to go get in the car. Suddenly, he needed to find shoes, go
to the bathroom, find something to entertain him in the car. I went through
the aforementioned steps and eventually, left him. He was terribly mad.
But things improved greatly.

Julie S.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wife2Vegman" <wifetovegman2002@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Back to Procrastination (was Re: Being
allowed to...


>
> --- SandraDodd@... wrote:
> >
> > If she's old enough to put on make up, she's too old
> > for you to get her ready.
> >
> > I would tell her about an hour before time to get
> > ready right then, make-up
> > and all. Jacket in hand. If she said "I need to
> > eat" or "I'm playing this
> > game" or "I have to call someone" I would say "Okay
> > Get ready and THEN
> > play/eat/call."
> >
> > Sandra
>
>
> What if then she is not ready when it is time to
> leave? Should we leave her home? I mean, sometimes
> it doesn't matter what we are going to, as to whether
> she is with us or not, or if we are late by 20
> minutes, but I don't want to do it just to "teach her
> a lesson" either.
>
> I mean, if we are just going shopping it doesn't
> really matter if we leave 20 minutes later than I
> thought, but if we are going to the movies or to
> church or to a basketball game, then it matters to
> those in the car, those we might be meeting, and we
> miss part of whatever the event is.
>
>>
> Maybe I should view it as helping her become more
> responsible?
>
> Susan the Wishy-Washy
>
>
> __________________________________
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pam sorooshian

On Dec 23, 2003, at 6:36 PM, J. Stauffer wrote:

> I think what helps me draw the line is would I do it to an adult. If
> my dh
> continually dawdled and dragged his feet and made the family late, how
> would
> I handle it? I would probably talk with him about how it affects
> others. I
> would probably make sure he was aware of when we needed to leave. If
> it
> continued, I would probably leave without him.

If we're going somewhere not too far away, I sweetly say, "I'm ready to
go and feeling in a hurry so I'm going to take my own car and meet you
there. Anybody else who is ready can go with me or wait and go with
your dad if you want."

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

Mary

> wifetovegman2002@... writes:
> -=-What if then she is not ready when it is time to
> leave? Should we leave her home? -=-


Not really having to deal with this problem in the same way, I can only
imagine what I might do. My oldest that was always putting things off was
always the last one out the door. I can't say she would make us late though.
I planned ahead and even though she was already *old enough* I would help
and remind her of the time if we needed to get somewhere at a certain time.
Party, shopping, etc. no, but organized events that had a start time, yes.
One thing she did on her own was set her clock 15 minutes ahead. Although
she knew it was fast, in the heat of getting ready quickly, she would just
look at the clock and actually forget it was fast and hurry herself along. I
can't say we ever got mad at her or even thought about leaving her behind.
(okay maybe my husband did <BG>) But I did talk to her about the importance
of the event for the other people. Also about how it made me feel to be late
or hurry. I'm pretty much late myself. But when something is scheduled and
it's not fashionable to be late, I make sure we're there. So I guess Tara
knew I wouldn't be feeling bad unless it was important.

I can't remember the last time I actually got her up or reminded her about
the time for anything. She's always on time for work and if she's late for
school, it's because she wants to be.

My younger ones dawdled. I still have one that does. The others grew out of
it as I feel like she will too. I just start earlier with them and help
along the way with whatever I can. If I feel like I need to start an hour
earlier, I do. They are on a different time schedule. They just don't see
time the same way I do. I understand that and act accordingly.

Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com

Fetteroll

on 12/23/03 6:59 PM, Wife2Vegman at wifetovegman2002@... wrote:

> Maybe I should view it as helping her become more
> responsible?

No, because that would come across as a lesson you're trying to impose on
her and could have the opposite effect. It sets the two of you up as
adversaries. It's saying "Here's where I want you to be (getting out of the
house in time) and this is what I'm going to do to get you there (leave
without you)."

Think of it in terms of setting personal boundaries about how you'll let
others treat you and your kids.

Maybe rethink what problem you're trying to solve. You're maybe thinking in
terms of how to get your daughter to stop making everyone wait. Don't. Don't
turn your daughter into the problem. Your *real* problems are: 1) getting to
appointments on time and 2) having everyone ready to go at approximately the
same time so no one has to wait more than is courteous.

I think it's going to be hard to talk to her about it because when she hears
the problems stated like that, what she will probably internalize is that
the problem is how to make her get ready on time. But try to keep focused on
the real problems.

Focus on the fact that it's okay for her to stay home but that if she *does*
want to go she needs to be aware that others have goals they're trying to
meet also: getting somewhere on time and not having to wait around to leave.

With Kat, who's 12, I have found bringing her clothes to her works because
her not being ready is usually caused by asking her to interrupt something
interesting to do something that isn't as interesting. (When it's something
she wants to do, she usually has no problems focusing on getting ready.)

Your daughter's probably too old for that and too interested in picking out
her own stuff, but it might be an idea for someone else. But you can discuss
what you and others can do to help her past the obstacles she has of getting
out of the house in time. When *her* goal is going with you -- that is on
those times when she'd be upset if she was left behind -- focus on what you
can do to help her reach that goal.

You guys can talk it out and come up with some plans. One way that might
help her is if you give her 3 alerts: a first alert that reminds her to
finish up what she's doing, a second alert that reminds her to stop what
she's doing and get ready and a 10 minute alert that means she should grab
any last minute things she needs and come down now because the bus is
departing in 10 minutes whether everyone is on board or not. It needs to be
presented as a method for her to help herself, not a way for you to control
her. The alerts are for *her* to accomplish her goal of getting out in time.
Your role isn't to make her do any of the getting ready. You're just the
timer giving her some clues to help her.

Joyce

Wife2Vegman

--- Fetteroll <fetteroll@...> wrote:
> on 12/23/03 6:59 PM, Wife2Vegman at
> wifetovegman2002@... wrote:
>
> > Maybe I should view it as helping her become more
> > responsible?
>
> No, because that would come across as a lesson
> you're trying to impose on
> her and could have the opposite effect.

Thanks, Joyce, that is what I thought too. But
couldn't figure out how to view it.

>
> Think of it in terms of setting personal boundaries
> about how you'll let
> others treat you and your kids.

Much better!

>
> Maybe rethink what problem you're trying to solve.
> You're maybe thinking in
> terms of how to get your daughter to stop making
> everyone wait. Don't. Don't
> turn your daughter into the problem. Your *real*
> problems are: 1) getting to
> appointments on time and 2) having everyone ready to
> go at approximately the
> same time so no one has to wait more than is
> courteous.


Ah...I think the light bulb is starting to glow a bit
brighter now.

I guess the reason I have viewed it as her being the
problem is that the boys are so easy. The 12yo could
care less if he is clean and neat, the 5yo still wants
me to pick out his clothes and dress him.

Because she is 14, very independent and has her own
"look", I can't turn up her speed by helping.


> I think it's going to be hard to talk to her about
> it because when she hears
> the problems stated like that, what she will
> probably internalize is that
> the problem is how to make her get ready on time.


Yes, unfortunately the way we raised them when they
were younger was very conventional and punitive, so
now they automatically think that when there is a
conflict of interest it is because someone must have
been "bad" or "disobedient". :-( It takes years for
those scars to heal, unfortunately.


> But try to keep focused on
> the real problems.
>
> Focus on the fact that it's okay for her to stay
> home but that if she *does*
> want to go she needs to be aware that others have
> goals they're trying to
> meet also: getting somewhere on time and not having
> to wait around to leave.

Good way to approach it, thanks.

> But you can discuss
> what you and others can do to help her past the
> obstacles she has of getting
> out of the house in time. When *her* goal is going
> with you -- that is on
> those times when she'd be upset if she was left
> behind -- focus on what you
> can do to help her reach that goal.

This is when I have the most trouble with my own
frutration, when it is something I *know* she wants to
do, such as go visit her friends, or go to her art
class, or go see a movie. And I am ready on time, to
drive her to her desire, and she is late again.


>
> You guys can talk it out and come up with some
> plans. One way that might
> help her is if you give her 3 alerts:

I will suggest this to her. I'll also ask her for her
own ideas as to how we could possibly help her.

Thanks, Joyce, Sandra, Mary, and everyone else who
offered such great ideas! I'll let you know how it
works out.



=====
--Susan in Sterling, VA

"This child is a natural product. The slight variations in growth,
development and temperament enhance his or her individual character
and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects." -- from the unschoolingdiscussion email list

__________________________________
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New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/

Tia Leschke

>
>This is when I have the most trouble with my own
>frutration, when it is something I *know* she wants to
>do, such as go visit her friends, or go to her art
>class, or go see a movie. And I am ready on time, to
>drive her to her desire, and she is late again.

I have this problem with my son. I think it started because dh always likes
to get places early, like as much as half an hour early. Lars hates
waiting, so he seems to have chosen to just take his time getting out the
door. He usually goes to games with dh because he's the coach, and I go
later after their warm up.
Now he seems to have made it a habit and does it with me as well. And I
*never* get anyplace early. <g>
Tia

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/24/03 6:31:29 AM, fetteroll@... writes:

<< No, because that would come across as a lesson you're trying to impose on
her and could have the opposite effect. It sets the two of you up as
adversaries. >>

Well!
I just wrote something about undoing adversarial relationships, and find
Joyce wrote the same basic thing. <g>

If I have a houseguest who wants to go somewhere, I ask them the night before
how much time they will need to get ready. The I wake them up.

If I treat my children more like houseguests than like obstacles, they act
more like houseguests in those good ways, of having courtesy and letting people
know what they're planning, what they would like to do, and in saying "this is
so nice," and "Thank you!" and "Can I help you with that?"

I would never leave a houseguest because she wasn't ready. And so you might
say "Yes, but the houseguest probably wouldn't stall past time to leave."

No. But if I had treated the houseguest badly in the past or threatened to
leave her, she might start to purposely drag her feet to irritate me.

I help houseguests by helping make sure the bathroom's open when they need
it, by either feeding them or letting them know we'll stop for food, by
reminding them of what we'll need ("It will be cold," or "let's take water" or
whatever). Some parents tend to stop doing things like that for their children as
they get older.

The better I treat my children, the better they *are.* Not the better they
"act," or the better they "behave." They behave from the core of their being.
These are direct-drive and honest children.

If a parent wants a child to "act better" for reward, they're training their
children to be dishonest. To act, instead of be, better.

If a parent wants a child to stop saying "I hate you" without ANY willingness
to consider that something happened before "hate you" time, then the parent
wants the child to be dishonest for the parent's comfort and convenience.

I wouldn't stay on a list that existed to help parents feel better about
their unwillingness to examine all the factors in their relationships with their
children. Maybe it's just me.

Sandra

gehrkes

I love this one.. Great Point! Thanks Sandra;]
Kathleen








--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/24/03 6:31:29 AM, fetteroll@e... writes:
>
> << No, because that would come across as a lesson you're trying to
impose on
> her and could have the opposite effect. It sets the two of you up
as
> adversaries. >>
>
> Well!
> I just wrote something about undoing adversarial relationships,
and find
> Joyce wrote the same basic thing. <g>
>
> If I have a houseguest who wants to go somewhere, I ask them the
night before
> how much time they will need to get ready. The I wake them up.
>
> If I treat my children more like houseguests than like obstacles,
they act
> more like houseguests in those good ways, of having courtesy and
letting people
> know what they're planning, what they would like to do, and in
saying "this is
> so nice," and "Thank you!" and "Can I help you with that?"
>
> I would never leave a houseguest because she wasn't ready. And
so you might
> say "Yes, but the houseguest probably wouldn't stall past time to
leave."
>
> No. But if I had treated the houseguest badly in the past or
threatened to
> leave her, she might start to purposely drag her feet to irritate
me.
>
> I help houseguests by helping make sure the bathroom's open when
they need
> it, by either feeding them or letting them know we'll stop for
food, by
> reminding them of what we'll need ("It will be cold," or "let's
take water" or
> whatever). Some parents tend to stop doing things like that for
their children as
> they get older.
>
> The better I treat my children, the better they *are.* Not the
better they
> "act," or the better they "behave." They behave from the core of
their being.
> These are direct-drive and honest children.
>
> If a parent wants a child to "act better" for reward, they're
training their
> children to be dishonest. To act, instead of be, better.
>
> If a parent wants a child to stop saying "I hate you" without ANY
willingness
> to consider that something happened before "hate you" time, then
the parent
> wants the child to be dishonest for the parent's comfort and
convenience.
>
> I wouldn't stay on a list that existed to help parents feel better
about
> their unwillingness to examine all the factors in their
relationships with their
> children. Maybe it's just me.
>
> Sandra

Robyn Coburn

<<I mean, if we are just going shopping it doesn't
really matter if we leave 20 minutes later than I
thought, but if we are going to the movies or to
church or to a basketball game, then it matters to
those in the car, those we might be meeting, and we
miss part of whatever the event is.>>

I'm not sure a single solution will be feasible for these different
situations. If lateness is defined as there being a specific hard time for
arrival that will inconvenience others, then the fluid shopping trip time
just seems way less urgent.

When I was a teenager, I had a real problem with punctuality. It always
seemed that there was something that would delay me, including external
things like the bus being late, and internal stuff - just dawdling or
procrastinating. If you arrived at school after assembly had begun, you had
to report to the staff room and wait there. The teacher on duty was often my
science teacher, a genial woman, who was always interested in the
fantastically unlikely combination of circumstances that led to my late
arrivals. Finally the headmistress put me in charge of unlocking the hall
and supervising the chair arranging for the daily morning assembly -
requiring me to be there half an hour before the rest of the school. I
remember feeling astonished. I was never late for school again, including
after that year was up.

However, lest it seem that my issue was magically cured, I continued to be
lousily unpunctual for social events with my friends - whose patience was
beyond saintly as I now look back. I don't know if it was me testing their
affection, or just striving to be in control of SOMETHING in my life or
what, but I just seemed incapable of getting to anywhere on time - and I
never felt it was my fault. I was always apologetic, but I felt at the time
that being late was something that happened to me. Finally my friends - a
group of about 6 other girls - colluded to give me the start time of an
event an hour early - and by some miracle I was on time and had to wait an
hour! Having a sense of justice, I was in no way angry about it, but I did
take it as a call to change. I decided that I just had to face up to being
an unpunctual person, and therefore would have to work constantly and
forever to not be late for stuff. The only way was to plan to get there
earlier, so I would be on time.

25 years later it is still a struggle to get to things like park days with a
fluid start time, early. And for events with a hard start time I plan in an
extra early leave-the-house time, and use various organizational tricks like
prepping the night before, and counting back from the leave time. For
example allow 15 minutes for putting together a food bag, x amount of time
for shower, tidy kitchen 10 mins etc, until I can schedule the time I have
to start getting ready (ie stop reading my e-mail). This is especially
crucial for catching planes. My husband is fanatically punctual, hates being
late, since lateness as practiced by some of his family members was a pose
for creating as much disturbance and attention getting as possible, not to
mention being entirely self centered. I hope Jayn takes after him instead of
me when she gets old enough to have a clearer grasp of the time of day.

I don't know if this will help with your teenager, except to note that in my
case, it took fairly drastic action on the part of other people who
evidently cared about me, for me to accept that I actually had a problem
that definitely was impacting my life and the life of others in a negative
way. I was the one who ended up creating the solutions for the problem - ie
strategies that worked for me to get punctual.

Robyn L. Coburn



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/26/03 1:13:17 AM, dezigna@... writes:

<< . My husband is fanatically punctual, hates being
late >>

Before we had children, Keith and I were separately or together always early.
We went to tons of things involving other people, and we were often the
first to arrive and start setting up, or we had organized the thing in the first
place and were eager to be there so others could meet in one place, learn of
plan-changes, or whatever. We knew who would be there and who had cancelled
and who needed to be late.

Then we had Kirby and it was harder to be early, but early was our priority
so I did it.
Then we had Marty and we tried to be there right on time, and others took
over the organizing. We started being late.
Then we had Holly and I gave up on "on time" for a while.

I could barely do it with two, but with three, none of my MANY tricks were
working well enough to get there on time. So I started apologizing for being
late and getting used to the change in my status. It was easier to change my
attitude than to go banshee on the kids.

Once they were older we got back into getting there on time or early, because
the kids could help take things to the van and so forth.

They're all three punctual when it's up to them on their own, so I think it's
partly genetic, partly they've seen it done.

When I was young I was involved in being surrogate mom to a family whose
parents had died while two of the six were still young (11/8) and my younger
brother (4). I took the kids to a movie in Santa Fe, half an hour from where we
lived. The oldest, a girl, looked around the theater with a look of profound
awe, looking all around at the ceiling and the curtains and the speakers like
she'd never seen a theater.

Turns out she hadn't. Hadn't seen one with the lights on. She said "I
didn't know they had the lights on before the movie started."

Her mom had never managed to get Christmas gifts before Christmas, either.
She used to mail order things so close to time that they always, every year,
arrived after Christmas.

The oldest brother of that family used to give me a ride from college to our
hometown when I was a teen and he was early 20's. A two hour trip would take
from four to eight hours, because he had to stop here and there to deliver
something or pick something up, and we'd get into a conversation or be shown
someone's new this or that, and some of the stops were way off the highway, and
they were always interesting journeys, but never quick or direct.

When he said he was coming over, it might be hours or (literally, honestly) a
day or two before he'd show up. He always made it, but not in the time scale
others considered "now" or "soon."

Sandra

Sandra

Wife2Vegman

--- Robyn Coburn <dezigna@...> wrote:
>
> I don't know if this will help with your teenager,
> except to note that in my
> case, it took fairly drastic action on the part of
> other people who
> evidently cared about me, for me to accept that I
> actually had a problem
> that definitely was impacting my life and the life
> of others in a negative
> way. I was the one who ended up creating the
> solutions for the problem - ie
> strategies that worked for me to get punctual.
>
> Robyn L. Coburn


Thanks, Robyn. You gave me a lot to consider. I
appreciate your taking the time to write it all out.



=====
--Susan in Sterling, VA

"This child is a natural product. The slight variations in growth,
development and temperament enhance his or her individual character
and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects." -- from the unschoolingdiscussion email list

__________________________________
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Danielle E. Conger

At 09:22 AM 12/26/2003 -0500, SandraDodd@... wrote:
>Then we had Kirby and it was harder to be early, but early was our priority
>so I did it.
>Then we had Marty and we tried to be there right on time, and others took
>over the organizing. We started being late.
>Then we had Holly and I gave up on "on time" for a while.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LOL With three little kids, I can be 10 minutes early or 10 minutes late.
There is no such thing as "on time."

--danielle

liza sabater

On Friday, December 26, 2003, at 03:05 AM, Robyn Coburn wrote:

> Finally the headmistress put me in charge of unlocking the hall
> and supervising the chair arranging for the daily morning assembly -
> requiring me to be there half an hour before the rest of the school. I
> remember feeling astonished. I was never late for school again,
> including
> after that year was up.
>

Could it e because you found a good enough reason to get there in time.
Even if the headmistress had said, "or else", you had a choice and in
this case her offer matched your interest. I've always said that
procrastination has to do more with the em(power)ment/attention/control
we crave and perceive as lacking. In this case, you got the opportunity
to get the attention, control and empowerment you thought you lacked
during these assemblies.

I think that these issues have little to do with the age --you being a
teenager at the time. I know that for me that's the case. We have
weekly meetings with homeschoolers that are marathonic. One lasts 3
hours, the other 4. It is not important to our kids that we spend those
7 hours a week in these places. We don't get to these meetings late. We
get there at the time that is best for us.


l i z a, nyc
=========================
www.culturekitchen.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

J. Stauffer

<<< than to go banshee on the kids>>>
********************************************
What an apt description.

Julie S.


From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Back to Procrastination (was Re: Being
allowed to...


>
> In a message dated 12/26/03 1:13:17 AM, dezigna@... writes:
>
> << . My husband is fanatically punctual, hates being
> late >>
>
> Before we had children, Keith and I were separately or together always
early.
> We went to tons of things involving other people, and we were often the
> first to arrive and start setting up, or we had organized the thing in the
first
> place and were eager to be there so others could meet in one place, learn
of
> plan-changes, or whatever. We knew who would be there and who had
cancelled
> and who needed to be late.
>
> Then we had Kirby and it was harder to be early, but early was our
priority
> so I did it.
> Then we had Marty and we tried to be there right on time, and others took
> over the organizing. We started being late.
> Then we had Holly and I gave up on "on time" for a while.
>
> I could barely do it with two, but with three, none of my MANY tricks were
> working well enough to get there on time. So I started apologizing for
being
> late and getting used to the change in my status. It was easier to
change my
> attitude.
>
> Once they were older we got back into getting there on time or early,
because
> the kids could help take things to the van and so forth.
>
> They're all three punctual when it's up to them on their own, so I think
it's
> partly genetic, partly they've seen it done.
>
> When I was young I was involved in being surrogate mom to a family whose
> parents had died while two of the six were still young (11/8) and my
younger
> brother (4). I took the kids to a movie in Santa Fe, half an hour from
where we
> lived. The oldest, a girl, looked around the theater with a look of
profound
> awe, looking all around at the ceiling and the curtains and the speakers
like
> she'd never seen a theater.
>
> Turns out she hadn't. Hadn't seen one with the lights on. She said "I
> didn't know they had the lights on before the movie started."
>
> Her mom had never managed to get Christmas gifts before Christmas, either.
> She used to mail order things so close to time that they always, every
year,
> arrived after Christmas.
>
> The oldest brother of that family used to give me a ride from college to
our
> hometown when I was a teen and he was early 20's. A two hour trip would
take
> from four to eight hours, because he had to stop here and there to deliver
> something or pick something up, and we'd get into a conversation or be
shown
> someone's new this or that, and some of the stops were way off the
highway, and
> they were always interesting journeys, but never quick or direct.
>
> When he said he was coming over, it might be hours or (literally,
honestly) a
> day or two before he'd show up. He always made it, but not in the time
scale
> others considered "now" or "soon."
>
> Sandra
>
> Sandra
>
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