Megan's Early Intervention Eval. Results :-(
Elizabeth Roberts
I am feeling like such a horrible mother right now. Megan was just evaluated this morning by the Early Intervention Team. We were worried about her speech, she had basically no words until the end of August (turned 2 on August 3), but her speech is blossoming since then, but it still isn't that clear...understandable, but not clear. She has a habit of sticking her tongue out all the time...but it turns out that she is delayed in many other ways that I hadn't realized...like she still uses her whole hand in order to pick things up rather than a pincer grip (which left her unable to stack the blocks into a tower)...things like that...
I'm floored..they said she has delays in every area, not just her speech as we'd expected! My friend called, and she pointed out to me how much we're on the go going places, or worrying about the housework and things like that and to a degree how very little Megan really PLAYS.
Then I got a lecture from "friend" as well about homeschooling Sarah, how it's been weeks since we've sat down and done any "school work" and how socially immature Sarah is, how she isn't really reading well, etc. Then she claimed that Paul also thinks Sarah should be in school, which is not something Paul has said to me.
From there she went into the kids being social outcasts because they're different because they're always at home, and do I want my kids to always be on the outside of life and on and on...basically alot of pressure to put Sarah into school, Logan into Head Start, and Megan into daycare at least a couple days a week.
Other friend also called, we spoke, she says she has some of the same concerns about Sarah but that Paul has never told her that he thinks Sarah should be back in school or anything, but that we really should consider it or at least going back to more academic work more often with her.
Someone PLEASE help me to deal with the tremendous guilt and sadness that I'm carrying right now!!!
MamaBeth
Everything I need to know, I learned on my own!
---------------------------------
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New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm floored..they said she has delays in every area, not just her speech as we'd expected! My friend called, and she pointed out to me how much we're on the go going places, or worrying about the housework and things like that and to a degree how very little Megan really PLAYS.
Then I got a lecture from "friend" as well about homeschooling Sarah, how it's been weeks since we've sat down and done any "school work" and how socially immature Sarah is, how she isn't really reading well, etc. Then she claimed that Paul also thinks Sarah should be in school, which is not something Paul has said to me.
From there she went into the kids being social outcasts because they're different because they're always at home, and do I want my kids to always be on the outside of life and on and on...basically alot of pressure to put Sarah into school, Logan into Head Start, and Megan into daycare at least a couple days a week.
Other friend also called, we spoke, she says she has some of the same concerns about Sarah but that Paul has never told her that he thinks Sarah should be back in school or anything, but that we really should consider it or at least going back to more academic work more often with her.
Someone PLEASE help me to deal with the tremendous guilt and sadness that I'm carrying right now!!!
MamaBeth
Everything I need to know, I learned on my own!
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/18/03 10:12:47 AM, mamabethuscg@... writes:
<< Everything I need to know, I learned on my own! >>
Do you really like that sigline?
Because several times you've told us you were really glad to know things
people here have helped you with. And I suppose you're learning on your own
because you came and asked. But are you perhaps leaving your children to learn
things on their own instead of being right with them, playing with them, doing
things with them?
<<My friend called, and she pointed out to me how much we're on the go going
places, or worrying about the housework and things like that>>
On the go without children or with children?
DO you worry about the housework a lot?
If you're not going to put the children first in your life, yes I think they
should be in school. But ALL you have to do to make unschooling work well is
to make the children your priority in every decision.
Here's something that might help you. It's "Disposable Checklists for
Unschoolers." It's a way to enrich your life without turning to someone's pre-made
curriculum. I don't think "going back to more academic work more often" is
necessarily the answer, but if you're doing nothing particular at all with or
for your kids, you might be doing too little with them.
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/194/jaunschooling.html
Here's one on balance, which also involves deciding if you're doing too
little:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/206/ndunschool.html
How would a child who is developmentally delayed benefit from being in
school? Honestly, school chews those kids up and spits them out.
I'd say examine where you can do more with them, but keep them home.
Play more games with physical items, maybe. One game we used to play was
with some solid-colored, various-shaped blocks we have. Kirby and I would get
two matching piles of five or six blocks and take turns copying each other's
"sculptures."
Once when Marty was two he was saying "I want to. Me. Me." So I gave him a
set and figured he would play with them separate from us. He was as good at
it as Kirby was. So we started going around each of the three of us making
something and the others copying it. And Marty was making more creative things,
too, with blocks leaning, or one just set off from the rest, at an
interesting angle, or touching a little, but flat on the table. The whole game was
different and better with Marty playing too.
Sandra
<< Everything I need to know, I learned on my own! >>
Do you really like that sigline?
Because several times you've told us you were really glad to know things
people here have helped you with. And I suppose you're learning on your own
because you came and asked. But are you perhaps leaving your children to learn
things on their own instead of being right with them, playing with them, doing
things with them?
<<My friend called, and she pointed out to me how much we're on the go going
places, or worrying about the housework and things like that>>
On the go without children or with children?
DO you worry about the housework a lot?
If you're not going to put the children first in your life, yes I think they
should be in school. But ALL you have to do to make unschooling work well is
to make the children your priority in every decision.
Here's something that might help you. It's "Disposable Checklists for
Unschoolers." It's a way to enrich your life without turning to someone's pre-made
curriculum. I don't think "going back to more academic work more often" is
necessarily the answer, but if you're doing nothing particular at all with or
for your kids, you might be doing too little with them.
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/194/jaunschooling.html
Here's one on balance, which also involves deciding if you're doing too
little:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/206/ndunschool.html
How would a child who is developmentally delayed benefit from being in
school? Honestly, school chews those kids up and spits them out.
I'd say examine where you can do more with them, but keep them home.
Play more games with physical items, maybe. One game we used to play was
with some solid-colored, various-shaped blocks we have. Kirby and I would get
two matching piles of five or six blocks and take turns copying each other's
"sculptures."
Once when Marty was two he was saying "I want to. Me. Me." So I gave him a
set and figured he would play with them separate from us. He was as good at
it as Kirby was. So we started going around each of the three of us making
something and the others copying it. And Marty was making more creative things,
too, with blocks leaning, or one just set off from the rest, at an
interesting angle, or touching a little, but flat on the table. The whole game was
different and better with Marty playing too.
Sandra
J. Stauffer
Oh Elizabeth,
Make yourself a warm cup of tea and spend today playing with your wonderful
children and take note of all the things they CAN do, all the things that
they know that you didn't TEACH them.
I used to do developmental testing and one thing I always told parents is to
remember that even with a diagnosis, your child is still the same child they
were the day before they came for the evaluation. Nothing has changed other
than hopefully, the parents have a little more information.
Now, about those test scores. For each skill on the test, a bunch of kids
of various ages were asked to perform the skill. The age where half of the
kids could perform the skill gets translated in the testing into the age
when a child "should" be able to do it. Remember, for each skill that your
daughter "should" be doing that she isn't, half of all American kids her age
couldn't do it either.
Back when my daughter was my foster daughter, still an infant, she was
involved in Early Childhood Intervention. My daughter's family background
and siblings indicated that she would likely have trouble learning, have
serious mental disorders, etc.. She was 5 months old and not even trying to
roll over yet.
The therapist gave me some ideas to try to encourage Marsie to try to roll
over but then she gave me the most wonderful, extraordinary advice.
She said, "With this one, don't worry about germs or dirt or clutter or
whatever. Just let her explore the world on her terms, as she needs to."
In other words, unschool her.
So Marsie spent lots of time in mud puddles, feeling her food with her
entire body, being allowed to mouth anything that wasn't poisonous or a
danger of being swallowed. We drove most people around us nuts. No
pre-school would have allowed what Marsie was into.
Now at 7, she has just been invited to join the competitive gymnastics team
at her gym. She is extremely verbal and precocious, well above average in
intelligence. Speaking as a mom and as a therapist, as long as your child
has kids and adults who interact with her in a fun and supportive manner,
has an environment where she is free to explore different and interesting
things, being home with family is the best thing going for her.
Julie S.
Make yourself a warm cup of tea and spend today playing with your wonderful
children and take note of all the things they CAN do, all the things that
they know that you didn't TEACH them.
I used to do developmental testing and one thing I always told parents is to
remember that even with a diagnosis, your child is still the same child they
were the day before they came for the evaluation. Nothing has changed other
than hopefully, the parents have a little more information.
Now, about those test scores. For each skill on the test, a bunch of kids
of various ages were asked to perform the skill. The age where half of the
kids could perform the skill gets translated in the testing into the age
when a child "should" be able to do it. Remember, for each skill that your
daughter "should" be doing that she isn't, half of all American kids her age
couldn't do it either.
Back when my daughter was my foster daughter, still an infant, she was
involved in Early Childhood Intervention. My daughter's family background
and siblings indicated that she would likely have trouble learning, have
serious mental disorders, etc.. She was 5 months old and not even trying to
roll over yet.
The therapist gave me some ideas to try to encourage Marsie to try to roll
over but then she gave me the most wonderful, extraordinary advice.
She said, "With this one, don't worry about germs or dirt or clutter or
whatever. Just let her explore the world on her terms, as she needs to."
In other words, unschool her.
So Marsie spent lots of time in mud puddles, feeling her food with her
entire body, being allowed to mouth anything that wasn't poisonous or a
danger of being swallowed. We drove most people around us nuts. No
pre-school would have allowed what Marsie was into.
Now at 7, she has just been invited to join the competitive gymnastics team
at her gym. She is extremely verbal and precocious, well above average in
intelligence. Speaking as a mom and as a therapist, as long as your child
has kids and adults who interact with her in a fun and supportive manner,
has an environment where she is free to explore different and interesting
things, being home with family is the best thing going for her.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Roberts" <mamabethuscg@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 11:05 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Megan's Early Intervention Eval. Results
:-(
> I am feeling like such a horrible mother right now. Megan was just
evaluated this morning by the Early Intervention Team. We were worried about
her speech, she had basically no words until the end of August (turned 2 on
August 3), but her speech is blossoming since then, but it still isn't that
clear...understandable, but not clear. She has a habit of sticking her
tongue out all the time...but it turns out that she is delayed in many other
ways that I hadn't realized...like she still uses her whole hand in order to
pick things up rather than a pincer grip (which left her unable to stack the
blocks into a tower)...things like that...
>
> I'm floored..they said she has delays in every area, not just her speech
as we'd expected! My friend called, and she pointed out to me how much we're
on the go going places, or worrying about the housework and things like that
and to a degree how very little Megan really PLAYS.
>
> Then I got a lecture from "friend" as well about homeschooling Sarah, how
it's been weeks since we've sat down and done any "school work" and how
socially immature Sarah is, how she isn't really reading well, etc. Then she
claimed that Paul also thinks Sarah should be in school, which is not
something Paul has said to me.
>
> From there she went into the kids being social outcasts because they're
different because they're always at home, and do I want my kids to always be
on the outside of life and on and on...basically alot of pressure to put
Sarah into school, Logan into Head Start, and Megan into daycare at least a
couple days a week.
>
> Other friend also called, we spoke, she says she has some of the same
concerns about Sarah but that Paul has never told her that he thinks Sarah
should be back in school or anything, but that we really should consider it
or at least going back to more academic work more often with her.
>
> Someone PLEASE help me to deal with the tremendous guilt and sadness that
I'm carrying right now!!!
>
> MamaBeth
>
>
> Everything I need to know, I learned on my own!
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
pam sorooshian
Response to Beth, below - but first a variation on Sandra's block game:
On Dec 18, 2003, at 9:24 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
> One game we used to play was
> with some solid-colored, various-shaped blocks we have. Kirby and I
> would get
> two matching piles of five or six blocks and take turns copying each
> other's
> "sculptures."
You can also blindfold one person. One builds a sculpture, the
blindfolded one tries to copy it with directions given by the first
person. Do this with duplos - the big legos. Then try it with legos.
Develops all kinds of skills - clear speech, clear thinking, focus on
details of what has to be done/described, listening carefully,
following oral directions carefully and step-by-step, etc. Really fun
and beneficial activity. It is also cooperative, rather than
competitive, which is good for siblings, especially, since both "win"
when the sculpture is accurately duplicated. Make up variations of
this. The blindfolded person should have the same pile of blocks or
legos that the builder used or you can make it more difficult by adding
a couple of "red herrings."
Beth -- nobody can do in school for your kids what you can do at home.
NOT a chance. But you may have to jazz up what you do at home - if you
are feeling like that is what you need to do, then this is a good place
to get lots of ideas about how to do that. I'd be cautious about
falling for the "she's special and needs school" advice for Megan ---
that's just the beginning of well-meaning labeling that will follow her
forever if you take that route. She might need some professional stuff
- some speech therapy or physical therapy or whatever -- that is very
very different than being put into school. I'd be hesitant to even go
for those things - I'd be more inclined, myself, to educate myself
about what they'd be doing for her and to do it at home. Pretty much
anything they can do, you can do better if you make that your priority.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/18/2003 12:13:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mamabethuscg@... writes:
<<We were worried about her speech, she had basically no words until the end
of August (turned 2 on August 3), but her speech is blossoming since then, but
it still isn't that clear...understandable, but not clear.>>
I wouldn't worry too much about Megan's speech. She's only 2! My currently
11 yr. old ds had no discernable speech until well after his third birthday.
I have no doubt that if he had been evaluated he would have been found to have
a host of other problems as well. His speech is now normal, and he reads,
writes, and plays as well as the other kids we know his age. Back when he was
3, everyone in my family was so worried about him and thought I should have him
evaluated and enroll him in preschool. I'm not really sure why I resisted so
strongly, but now I'm sure I did the right thing. He developed in his own
time and own way.
My 7 year old dd also had speech/language problems very similar to my son.
No language before her 3rd birthday and then lots of articulation trouble. She
still has trouble making many sounds and some language difficulties as well.
No one is pressuring me to have her evaluated because my son's speech and
other areas of development have turned out just fine. Note that my other 3
children's (15, 9, and 5) speech developed on a typical time schedule. Just as
children learn to read at different ages, in different ways, children learn to
speak at different ages, in different ways.
<< and do I want my kids to always be on the outside of life >>
I think that school is the "outside" of life. Home is where life happens.
<<we really should consider it or at least going back to more academic work
more often with her.>>
I don't know how old Sarah is, but I do know that there is usually plenty of
time for our children to learn the things they need and want to know. Are
there things that Sarah wants to know about or how to do? If so help her with
those areas. Otherwise there's no need to feel guilt or sadness about her.
Think about if she's happy, and how you feel. Those are the things that matter.
It sounds to me like you are doing a great job. Be strong in standing up for
what is best for your children!
--Jacqueline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamabethuscg@... writes:
<<We were worried about her speech, she had basically no words until the end
of August (turned 2 on August 3), but her speech is blossoming since then, but
it still isn't that clear...understandable, but not clear.>>
I wouldn't worry too much about Megan's speech. She's only 2! My currently
11 yr. old ds had no discernable speech until well after his third birthday.
I have no doubt that if he had been evaluated he would have been found to have
a host of other problems as well. His speech is now normal, and he reads,
writes, and plays as well as the other kids we know his age. Back when he was
3, everyone in my family was so worried about him and thought I should have him
evaluated and enroll him in preschool. I'm not really sure why I resisted so
strongly, but now I'm sure I did the right thing. He developed in his own
time and own way.
My 7 year old dd also had speech/language problems very similar to my son.
No language before her 3rd birthday and then lots of articulation trouble. She
still has trouble making many sounds and some language difficulties as well.
No one is pressuring me to have her evaluated because my son's speech and
other areas of development have turned out just fine. Note that my other 3
children's (15, 9, and 5) speech developed on a typical time schedule. Just as
children learn to read at different ages, in different ways, children learn to
speak at different ages, in different ways.
<< and do I want my kids to always be on the outside of life >>
I think that school is the "outside" of life. Home is where life happens.
<<we really should consider it or at least going back to more academic work
more often with her.>>
I don't know how old Sarah is, but I do know that there is usually plenty of
time for our children to learn the things they need and want to know. Are
there things that Sarah wants to know about or how to do? If so help her with
those areas. Otherwise there's no need to feel guilt or sadness about her.
Think about if she's happy, and how you feel. Those are the things that matter.
It sounds to me like you are doing a great job. Be strong in standing up for
what is best for your children!
--Jacqueline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Roberts
"Do you really like that sigline?" Yes, I do. I thought it was a cute take on the "Everything I Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten" essay that was popularly known..let's see...was it the late 80s or early 90s? ...And I consider it pretty accurate. What I truly needed to know in my life are things I taught myself. I'd rather not debate the semantics behind "teach" and "learn" right now though if you don't mind..I have other more important things on my mind.
No, I'm not leaving my children alone all day to learn things on their own. If I was going to do that, then yes, my children would be better off at school. We talk often, I involve them in housework and cooking and I spend time playing with them on their levels. I read to them on a daily basis. My house is always full of children from my neighborhood coming over to play with my children, and one child in particular prefers to be with me and says it's because I give her attention that she doesn't get from her mother.
It is very rare for me to go anywhere without at least one of the children with me. This past summer, I babysat my friend's four children until the end of July when we were expecting Gracie's arrival. I spent the month of August in the hospital because I nearly died from complications.
I can see where, to a degree, Megan's delays are our fault. In some ways she has not had as much direct attention as I would normally give since about last March until late July, because of various things; and when I came home from the hospital, I made a special effort to be sure to give her more attention from me instead of thinking that she was doing just fine chasing after her siblings and playing with them. That's when her speech began to improve...I just hadn't picked up on the other areas. I wasn't looking for them. There is a speech and hearing problem that runs in our family, so I picked up on that.
I'm not perfect, far from it, but I'm not unwilling to admit when things haven't been going as they could be. Could I be doing more with them and less other things? Yes, and I will be. Have been in some ways for the past few months but I can see that I haven't quite 'slowed down' as much as we may really need. And that's probably some of Paul's pushing lately to return to "school" work with Sarah is that he knows that if I was doing that, I'd have to stay home to do it!
Yes, I do worry about the housework alot. We have a very small house, and with three active children it becomes a safety hazard to have things out of place, and it can be difficult to do much of anything if the house isn't clean. Personally, I could do with a little less of the constant cleaning, and I tend to let the children's rooms go..but my husband can't.
I appreciate your suggestions of the pages to read.
MamaBeth
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 12/18/03 10:12:47 AM, mamabethuscg@... writes:
<< Everything I need to know, I learned on my own! >>
Do you really like that sigline?
Because several times you've told us you were really glad to know things
people here have helped you with. And I suppose you're learning on your own
because you came and asked. But are you perhaps leaving your children to learn
things on their own instead of being right with them, playing with them, doing
things with them?
<<My friend called, and she pointed out to me how much we're on the go going
places, or worrying about the housework and things like that>>
On the go without children or with children?
DO you worry about the housework a lot?
If you're not going to put the children first in your life, yes I think they
should be in school. But ALL you have to do to make unschooling work well is
to make the children your priority in every decision.
Here's something that might help you. It's "Disposable Checklists for
Unschoolers." It's a way to enrich your life without turning to someone's pre-made
curriculum. I don't think "going back to more academic work more often" is
necessarily the answer, but if you're doing nothing particular at all with or
for your kids, you might be doing too little with them.
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/194/jaunschooling.html
Here's one on balance, which also involves deciding if you're doing too
little:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/206/ndunschool.html
How would a child who is developmentally delayed benefit from being in
school? Honestly, school chews those kids up and spits them out.
I'd say examine where you can do more with them, but keep them home.
Play more games with physical items, maybe. One game we used to play was
with some solid-colored, various-shaped blocks we have. Kirby and I would get
two matching piles of five or six blocks and take turns copying each other's
"sculptures."
Once when Marty was two he was saying "I want to. Me. Me." So I gave him a
set and figured he would play with them separate from us. He was as good at
it as Kirby was. So we started going around each of the three of us making
something and the others copying it. And Marty was making more creative things,
too, with blocks leaning, or one just set off from the rest, at an
interesting angle, or touching a little, but flat on the table. The whole game was
different and better with Marty playing too.
Sandra
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
---------------------------------
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Everything I need to know, I learned on my own!
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No, I'm not leaving my children alone all day to learn things on their own. If I was going to do that, then yes, my children would be better off at school. We talk often, I involve them in housework and cooking and I spend time playing with them on their levels. I read to them on a daily basis. My house is always full of children from my neighborhood coming over to play with my children, and one child in particular prefers to be with me and says it's because I give her attention that she doesn't get from her mother.
It is very rare for me to go anywhere without at least one of the children with me. This past summer, I babysat my friend's four children until the end of July when we were expecting Gracie's arrival. I spent the month of August in the hospital because I nearly died from complications.
I can see where, to a degree, Megan's delays are our fault. In some ways she has not had as much direct attention as I would normally give since about last March until late July, because of various things; and when I came home from the hospital, I made a special effort to be sure to give her more attention from me instead of thinking that she was doing just fine chasing after her siblings and playing with them. That's when her speech began to improve...I just hadn't picked up on the other areas. I wasn't looking for them. There is a speech and hearing problem that runs in our family, so I picked up on that.
I'm not perfect, far from it, but I'm not unwilling to admit when things haven't been going as they could be. Could I be doing more with them and less other things? Yes, and I will be. Have been in some ways for the past few months but I can see that I haven't quite 'slowed down' as much as we may really need. And that's probably some of Paul's pushing lately to return to "school" work with Sarah is that he knows that if I was doing that, I'd have to stay home to do it!
Yes, I do worry about the housework alot. We have a very small house, and with three active children it becomes a safety hazard to have things out of place, and it can be difficult to do much of anything if the house isn't clean. Personally, I could do with a little less of the constant cleaning, and I tend to let the children's rooms go..but my husband can't.
I appreciate your suggestions of the pages to read.
MamaBeth
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 12/18/03 10:12:47 AM, mamabethuscg@... writes:
<< Everything I need to know, I learned on my own! >>
Do you really like that sigline?
Because several times you've told us you were really glad to know things
people here have helped you with. And I suppose you're learning on your own
because you came and asked. But are you perhaps leaving your children to learn
things on their own instead of being right with them, playing with them, doing
things with them?
<<My friend called, and she pointed out to me how much we're on the go going
places, or worrying about the housework and things like that>>
On the go without children or with children?
DO you worry about the housework a lot?
If you're not going to put the children first in your life, yes I think they
should be in school. But ALL you have to do to make unschooling work well is
to make the children your priority in every decision.
Here's something that might help you. It's "Disposable Checklists for
Unschoolers." It's a way to enrich your life without turning to someone's pre-made
curriculum. I don't think "going back to more academic work more often" is
necessarily the answer, but if you're doing nothing particular at all with or
for your kids, you might be doing too little with them.
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/194/jaunschooling.html
Here's one on balance, which also involves deciding if you're doing too
little:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/206/ndunschool.html
How would a child who is developmentally delayed benefit from being in
school? Honestly, school chews those kids up and spits them out.
I'd say examine where you can do more with them, but keep them home.
Play more games with physical items, maybe. One game we used to play was
with some solid-colored, various-shaped blocks we have. Kirby and I would get
two matching piles of five or six blocks and take turns copying each other's
"sculptures."
Once when Marty was two he was saying "I want to. Me. Me." So I gave him a
set and figured he would play with them separate from us. He was as good at
it as Kirby was. So we started going around each of the three of us making
something and the others copying it. And Marty was making more creative things,
too, with blocks leaning, or one just set off from the rest, at an
interesting angle, or touching a little, but flat on the table. The whole game was
different and better with Marty playing too.
Sandra
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Betsy
**Someone PLEASE help me to deal with the tremendous guilt and sadness
that I'm carrying right now!!! **
Well, it's always sad when people we thought were our friends start
attacking us and our kids.
Is Paul your husband? I would guess he nodded and smiled once when
someone was yapping at him about education and *that* is what is being
misquoted back at you.
It's never appropriate for someone to try to win an argument with you
about raising your kids with the line "and your husband agrees with ME,
even though he's never said so to you." That's just twisted. This
person is claiming to know more about what your children need than you
do AND to know more about what your husband thinks than you do. Is that
likely? Seems like a severe case of over confidence and
presumptiousness on the part of that person.
I believe that all the studies about Head Start ONLY show a benefit for
children coming from impoverished homes with few educational resources.
The education establishment is really over-reaching with the idea that
preschool is very beneficial for all kids. I went to preschool myself,
but my son didn't and he seems fine to me.
I believe that a child with "delays" (most of which are just normal
developmental variations) will be much better off with a loving
attentive parent than with a "professional teacher". (Sometimes the
various therapists do have deep knowledge, but others have just thin
broad knowledge. You can catch up with that if you need to.)
Betsy
that I'm carrying right now!!! **
Well, it's always sad when people we thought were our friends start
attacking us and our kids.
Is Paul your husband? I would guess he nodded and smiled once when
someone was yapping at him about education and *that* is what is being
misquoted back at you.
It's never appropriate for someone to try to win an argument with you
about raising your kids with the line "and your husband agrees with ME,
even though he's never said so to you." That's just twisted. This
person is claiming to know more about what your children need than you
do AND to know more about what your husband thinks than you do. Is that
likely? Seems like a severe case of over confidence and
presumptiousness on the part of that person.
I believe that all the studies about Head Start ONLY show a benefit for
children coming from impoverished homes with few educational resources.
The education establishment is really over-reaching with the idea that
preschool is very beneficial for all kids. I went to preschool myself,
but my son didn't and he seems fine to me.
I believe that a child with "delays" (most of which are just normal
developmental variations) will be much better off with a loving
attentive parent than with a "professional teacher". (Sometimes the
various therapists do have deep knowledge, but others have just thin
broad knowledge. You can catch up with that if you need to.)
Betsy
Elizabeth Roberts
Thanks, Betsy! I appreciate that! This "friend" has done it before, stepped in claiming that my husband has told her that he doesn't agree with something he'd told me that he does, because it backs up what SHE'S saying...sigh...this person is only in my life for a few more months...
MamaBeth
Betsy <ecsamhill@...> wrote:
**Someone PLEASE help me to deal with the tremendous guilt and sadness
that I'm carrying right now!!! **
Well, it's always sad when people we thought were our friends start
attacking us and our kids.
Is Paul your husband? I would guess he nodded and smiled once when
someone was yapping at him about education and *that* is what is being
misquoted back at you.
It's never appropriate for someone to try to win an argument with you
about raising your kids with the line "and your husband agrees with ME,
even though he's never said so to you." That's just twisted. This
person is claiming to know more about what your children need than you
do AND to know more about what your husband thinks than you do. Is that
likely? Seems like a severe case of over confidence and
presumptiousness on the part of that person.
I believe that all the studies about Head Start ONLY show a benefit for
children coming from impoverished homes with few educational resources.
The education establishment is really over-reaching with the idea that
preschool is very beneficial for all kids. I went to preschool myself,
but my son didn't and he seems fine to me.
I believe that a child with "delays" (most of which are just normal
developmental variations) will be much better off with a loving
attentive parent than with a "professional teacher". (Sometimes the
various therapists do have deep knowledge, but others have just thin
broad knowledge. You can catch up with that if you need to.)
Betsy
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
MamaBeth
Betsy <ecsamhill@...> wrote:
**Someone PLEASE help me to deal with the tremendous guilt and sadness
that I'm carrying right now!!! **
Well, it's always sad when people we thought were our friends start
attacking us and our kids.
Is Paul your husband? I would guess he nodded and smiled once when
someone was yapping at him about education and *that* is what is being
misquoted back at you.
It's never appropriate for someone to try to win an argument with you
about raising your kids with the line "and your husband agrees with ME,
even though he's never said so to you." That's just twisted. This
person is claiming to know more about what your children need than you
do AND to know more about what your husband thinks than you do. Is that
likely? Seems like a severe case of over confidence and
presumptiousness on the part of that person.
I believe that all the studies about Head Start ONLY show a benefit for
children coming from impoverished homes with few educational resources.
The education establishment is really over-reaching with the idea that
preschool is very beneficial for all kids. I went to preschool myself,
but my son didn't and he seems fine to me.
I believe that a child with "delays" (most of which are just normal
developmental variations) will be much better off with a loving
attentive parent than with a "professional teacher". (Sometimes the
various therapists do have deep knowledge, but others have just thin
broad knowledge. You can catch up with that if you need to.)
Betsy
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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>Well I can certainly understand that if you've got Social Services on your
>Yes, I do worry about the housework alot. We have a very small house, and
>with three active children it becomes a safety hazard to have things out
>of place, and it can be difficult to do much of anything if the house
>isn't clean. Personally, I could do with a little less of the constant
>cleaning, and I tend to let the children's rooms go..but my husband can't.
back about the kids. They'll pick up on dirt and untidiness right away
(sometimes when it doesn't even exist). That's one area you need to keep on
top of if they're involved.
Otherwise it sounds like you're doing fine. And does that "friend" really
need to be in your life at all, even for just a few more months?
Tia
Robyn Coburn
<<Then I got a lecture from "friend" as well about homeschooling Sarah, how
it's been weeks since we've sat down and done any "school work" and how
socially immature Sarah is, how she isn't really reading well, etc. Then she
claimed that Paul also thinks Sarah should be in school, which is not
something Paul has said to me. >>
I agree with Betsy's point about the inappropriateness of expressing that
idea that your husband is confiding in the friend, but saying something
different to you. My first thought is that you need a different friend,
rather than a different educational approach!
I started thinking about what you wrote in a different post about the
quantity of other kids in your home. Since it seems that Sarah does have
lots of opportunities to interact with other kids, it seems unlikely that
she is socially deprived. However, speaking from my own meager experience
with Jayn (4), I had to limit the time that she was spending with a neighbor
girl (6) who is schooled and also parented "traditionally" with punishments,
time-outs, food etc limitations - all the usual stuff. Even a small amount
of time with this kid seemed to have a bad effect on Jayn's personality, and
stress level. I try to find kids for Jayn to play with from our local
homeschooling support group, with the parents who are gentle, attachment
oriented etc.
These (mostly) women are also where I find most of my friends now - none of
whom are going to react to any problem I share, with "send them to school".
My group is not particularly unschooling friendly - made up of mostly
eclectic and unit study oriented families - a few school at homers, but I
don't get into those curriculum conversations. But they are universally more
simpatico in almost every area, than the schooling parents who make up the
rest of my acquaintance. Jayn mostly wants me to play with her, her daddy to
play with her, or one other kid to play with her, rather than a group. I
would say find a local park day with hs'ers, or start one. Your older kids
may find friends with parents whose style you would trust to be around them,
for playdates, so you can concentrate some extra time on your 2yo, playing
some of the fine motor skills support games that others have mentioned.
There was a thread here recently about someone who was feeling sad because
she was growing apart from some old friends who were not homeschool
supportive (let alone unschooling supportive). I have had the same feeling
recently from someone I have known a while - a single mom who has her 2yo in
full time daycare in order to work. She started going on about the
homeschooled children she has known who have "social problems" in an "I know
better than you" tone of voice. The conversation was initiated because she
was concerned about the policy of her daycare place to initiate/push early
academics on her son. (He's 2!!!!) I was responding that she should follow
her heart and gut about not allowing them to be the "experts" about her
little boy. I guess I am not really sad about letting this friend fade out
of my life!
Robyn L. Coburn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it's been weeks since we've sat down and done any "school work" and how
socially immature Sarah is, how she isn't really reading well, etc. Then she
claimed that Paul also thinks Sarah should be in school, which is not
something Paul has said to me. >>
I agree with Betsy's point about the inappropriateness of expressing that
idea that your husband is confiding in the friend, but saying something
different to you. My first thought is that you need a different friend,
rather than a different educational approach!
I started thinking about what you wrote in a different post about the
quantity of other kids in your home. Since it seems that Sarah does have
lots of opportunities to interact with other kids, it seems unlikely that
she is socially deprived. However, speaking from my own meager experience
with Jayn (4), I had to limit the time that she was spending with a neighbor
girl (6) who is schooled and also parented "traditionally" with punishments,
time-outs, food etc limitations - all the usual stuff. Even a small amount
of time with this kid seemed to have a bad effect on Jayn's personality, and
stress level. I try to find kids for Jayn to play with from our local
homeschooling support group, with the parents who are gentle, attachment
oriented etc.
These (mostly) women are also where I find most of my friends now - none of
whom are going to react to any problem I share, with "send them to school".
My group is not particularly unschooling friendly - made up of mostly
eclectic and unit study oriented families - a few school at homers, but I
don't get into those curriculum conversations. But they are universally more
simpatico in almost every area, than the schooling parents who make up the
rest of my acquaintance. Jayn mostly wants me to play with her, her daddy to
play with her, or one other kid to play with her, rather than a group. I
would say find a local park day with hs'ers, or start one. Your older kids
may find friends with parents whose style you would trust to be around them,
for playdates, so you can concentrate some extra time on your 2yo, playing
some of the fine motor skills support games that others have mentioned.
There was a thread here recently about someone who was feeling sad because
she was growing apart from some old friends who were not homeschool
supportive (let alone unschooling supportive). I have had the same feeling
recently from someone I have known a while - a single mom who has her 2yo in
full time daycare in order to work. She started going on about the
homeschooled children she has known who have "social problems" in an "I know
better than you" tone of voice. The conversation was initiated because she
was concerned about the policy of her daycare place to initiate/push early
academics on her son. (He's 2!!!!) I was responding that she should follow
her heart and gut about not allowing them to be the "experts" about her
little boy. I guess I am not really sad about letting this friend fade out
of my life!
Robyn L. Coburn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Roberts
Tia,
Otherwise it sounds like you're doing fine. And does that "friend" really
need to be in your life at all, even for just a few more months?
If it wasn't for the "friend"'s daughter, I probably wouldn't have anything to do with her...I don't really know how to end things at this point since we're neighbors and everything. She's losing her housing come April and they'll be moving, and I can handle it til then. I've learned to just nod my head and say I'll think about it, and ignore what she says for the most part.
SIGH...
MamaBeth
Everything I need to know, I learned on my own!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Otherwise it sounds like you're doing fine. And does that "friend" really
need to be in your life at all, even for just a few more months?
If it wasn't for the "friend"'s daughter, I probably wouldn't have anything to do with her...I don't really know how to end things at this point since we're neighbors and everything. She's losing her housing come April and they'll be moving, and I can handle it til then. I've learned to just nod my head and say I'll think about it, and ignore what she says for the most part.
SIGH...
MamaBeth
Everything I need to know, I learned on my own!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
joylyn
I had a conversation tonight with the mother of a little girl who was on
Janene's soccer team. (soccer is over.)
Mom I can't MAKE Brianna learn her letters. I sit down with her to
teach them and she gets frustrated and then we both start fighting.
Me So why does she need to learn her letters.
Mom (looking at me with this "have you lost your marbles" look, which
was actually pretty funny) What do you mean?
Me Well, why does she need to know her letters?
Mom Cause she needs to learn to read?
Me Now?
Mom Yes, now. She's really behind.
Me Behind, how can she be behind, she's five.
Mom Well she is.
Me Who says she's behind?
Mom Uh, the school says.
Me And they know this how?
Mom Cause they're the school (another great look, I'm so crazy.)
Me Doesn't she have the rest of her life to learn to read, is there a
reason she must know this information right now when she's so little?
Maybe she's not ready to learn to read, developmentally. Maybe she
doesn't WANT to learn to read. Maybe she has other things she's
interested in doing now, rather than learn silly ol' letters or learn to
read.
I think I got mom thinking.
I did talk to the mom about how years of being told "you can't read" by
teachers and other school folks can make that really happen.
Joylyn
Janene's soccer team. (soccer is over.)
Mom I can't MAKE Brianna learn her letters. I sit down with her to
teach them and she gets frustrated and then we both start fighting.
Me So why does she need to learn her letters.
Mom (looking at me with this "have you lost your marbles" look, which
was actually pretty funny) What do you mean?
Me Well, why does she need to know her letters?
Mom Cause she needs to learn to read?
Me Now?
Mom Yes, now. She's really behind.
Me Behind, how can she be behind, she's five.
Mom Well she is.
Me Who says she's behind?
Mom Uh, the school says.
Me And they know this how?
Mom Cause they're the school (another great look, I'm so crazy.)
Me Doesn't she have the rest of her life to learn to read, is there a
reason she must know this information right now when she's so little?
Maybe she's not ready to learn to read, developmentally. Maybe she
doesn't WANT to learn to read. Maybe she has other things she's
interested in doing now, rather than learn silly ol' letters or learn to
read.
I think I got mom thinking.
I did talk to the mom about how years of being told "you can't read" by
teachers and other school folks can make that really happen.
Joylyn
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/18/2003 11:12:47 AM Central Standard Time,
mamabethuscg@... writes:
Someone PLEASE help me to deal with the tremendous guilt and sadness that I'm
carrying right now!!!
~~~
First of all, don't invest too much into the opinion of your friends. Your
opinion is what counts, especially with regard to your children and how they
are doing. It seems to me that the first friend really crossed a line and
sounded like a busybody to me.
Secondly, children develop at different rates, and what is slow for one
happens swiftly for another. Even those who are "delayed" have spurts of rapid
development and then appear to be learning nothing, changing little, and even
regressing. It's normal and is well documented. My father told me years ago
that if Jake (then less than 1) is not learning how to walk, he's learning
something else. So true.
Look into your baby's eyes and see her for who she is. Accept her there,
right where she is. No one should try to hurry her to get grown. Trust her to
blossom before your eyes, and trust yourself, too.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamabethuscg@... writes:
Someone PLEASE help me to deal with the tremendous guilt and sadness that I'm
carrying right now!!!
~~~
First of all, don't invest too much into the opinion of your friends. Your
opinion is what counts, especially with regard to your children and how they
are doing. It seems to me that the first friend really crossed a line and
sounded like a busybody to me.
Secondly, children develop at different rates, and what is slow for one
happens swiftly for another. Even those who are "delayed" have spurts of rapid
development and then appear to be learning nothing, changing little, and even
regressing. It's normal and is well documented. My father told me years ago
that if Jake (then less than 1) is not learning how to walk, he's learning
something else. So true.
Look into your baby's eyes and see her for who she is. Accept her there,
right where she is. No one should try to hurry her to get grown. Trust her to
blossom before your eyes, and trust yourself, too.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kayb85
> Someone PLEASE help me to deal with the tremendous guilt andsadness that I'm carrying right now!!!
Maybe don't have "professionals" evaluate your kids anymore? Maybe
pretend that you never did and forget all the stuff they're telling
you?
If you feel like your 2 year old isn't getting enough play time, then
make sure she gets enough playtime. You don't need to feel guilty
because you recognize an area that your kids need something more from
you. Don't feel guilty, just start doing it! I think we should
constantly re-evaluate ourselves as parents so we can find ways to
improve. You said you've been doing a lot of running out of the
house--but what kind of running? If you're taking your kids to
museums and playgrounds and cool places where she can see new,
interesting things, and if they all seem to be enjoying it, then I
certainly don't think you need to worry.
Sheila
Danielle E. Conger
At 04:34 PM 12/18/2003 -0800, Robyn Coburn wrote:
there seemed to be a lot of questions, concerns and negativity rather than
a lot of good stories/ cheerleading. I think sometimes it's hard to find
places where we can be negative--not about our commitment to unschooling,
but about anything that may be happening or we may be concerned about how
to handle. Sometimes people are looking for reassurance when their kids are
not writing operas or living up to all the fabulous feats of some
unschoolers. There are so many times when unschoolers are on the defensive
and out to show how wonderful it is that we don't have very many places to
vent our concerns and questions, know what I mean? Life is not perfect
whether we unschool or not, and it sure is nice to have people who will
understand and offer sound advice without the knee-jerk reaction of "send
them to school" or "do more workbooks." That's what makes support groups
and lists like this so valuable!
--danielle
>These (mostly) women are also where I find most of my friends now - none ofMy local unschooling support group has been frustrated recently because
>whom are going to react to any problem I share, with "send them to school".
there seemed to be a lot of questions, concerns and negativity rather than
a lot of good stories/ cheerleading. I think sometimes it's hard to find
places where we can be negative--not about our commitment to unschooling,
but about anything that may be happening or we may be concerned about how
to handle. Sometimes people are looking for reassurance when their kids are
not writing operas or living up to all the fabulous feats of some
unschoolers. There are so many times when unschoolers are on the defensive
and out to show how wonderful it is that we don't have very many places to
vent our concerns and questions, know what I mean? Life is not perfect
whether we unschool or not, and it sure is nice to have people who will
understand and offer sound advice without the knee-jerk reaction of "send
them to school" or "do more workbooks." That's what makes support groups
and lists like this so valuable!
--danielle
Danielle E. Conger
At 01:59 PM 12/18/2003 -0800, Elizabeth Roberts wrote:
I can't help wondering how much your husband helps out with any of this. If
he can't let the rooms go or has his own set of standards, is he working to
meet those standards or simply enforcing them through you?
I understand what a difficult situation you are facing, and it sounds to me
like you and Paul may need to really sit down and do some serious talking.
You've said in the past that he's not completely on board with the
unschooling. I think you guys need to be presenting a united front--always
important but doubly so with dss on your backs! Maybe you guys need to work
out a little bit more clearly how things are going to get done and to what
extent--a plan that works to meet the family's needs not just one person's
demands.
Sorry if I'm reading something into this situation that's not there, but it
sounds like an awful lot is being put on you without much positive input or
help from dh. Dunno.
--danielle
>Yes, I do worry about the housework alot. We have a very small house, andBeth,
>with three active children it becomes a safety hazard to have things out
>of place, and it can be difficult to do much of anything if the house
>isn't clean. Personally, I could do with a little less of the constant
>cleaning, and I tend to let the children's rooms go..but my husband can't.
I can't help wondering how much your husband helps out with any of this. If
he can't let the rooms go or has his own set of standards, is he working to
meet those standards or simply enforcing them through you?
I understand what a difficult situation you are facing, and it sounds to me
like you and Paul may need to really sit down and do some serious talking.
You've said in the past that he's not completely on board with the
unschooling. I think you guys need to be presenting a united front--always
important but doubly so with dss on your backs! Maybe you guys need to work
out a little bit more clearly how things are going to get done and to what
extent--a plan that works to meet the family's needs not just one person's
demands.
Sorry if I'm reading something into this situation that's not there, but it
sounds like an awful lot is being put on you without much positive input or
help from dh. Dunno.
--danielle
Elizabeth Roberts
Danielle,
Paul does help, but he can really make it seem more like he's doing it because he thinks I won't...or if I'm asking him for help right that minute with something, he'll say he'll do it later, and not get around to it.
Everything lately has pretty seemed to grind our lives to a halt. At times it seems we have so many little fires going there's no way to put any of them out.
We decided to see a counselor together for a few sessions, but have been working as well to iron things out so that we're on the same page again about EVERYTHING.
Not that it excuses anything, but I've been suffering from some serious PPD and only went back on Paxil a couple weeks ago, and I've decided to find a counselor again for me for some Adderall because I know it'll help me to be able to be calm enough to work things out well again...
SO that should help...geez...I'm sorry to anyone who could care less, but yeah..we've had more going on than just "unschooling" and "academics"...It has been one incredibly long and difficult year for our family...It's like juggling in a way...we had certain balls (ourselves, marriage, his job) going well...then we added four little clubs in slowly, the last three a little quicker than we liked but that was ok, we kept them going and it wasn't really any trouble......and then other things started coming at us from nowhere (sticks, and plates, and ribbons) and it has been too much...you lose your focus and things will drop.
So things dropped a couple weeks ago...we're still trying to get the balls and the clubs going again and to heck with sticks and plates and ribbons...if that makes any sense!
Paul and I are talking more than we have in months, and we'll make it through all of this, I'm sure.
One thing positive in the last week has been specifcally in regards to the kids being at home. Paul said he'll back off and watch longer before saying he thinks unschooling is a failure and we need to go back to more traditional academics. He's just really worried about the kids ending up behind. I said I recognized that concern, and explained that we're still deschooling right now. I also asked Sarah to read some of her Brownie book that she's been working on aloud to Daddy so he could hear her, he was surprised because he hadn't realized how much she's improved. I asked him to play store with her or something if he was worried about her math skills, and to email with her from work (and home) if he's worried about her writing. He said he would...
MamaBeth
Everything I need to know, I learned on my own!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Paul does help, but he can really make it seem more like he's doing it because he thinks I won't...or if I'm asking him for help right that minute with something, he'll say he'll do it later, and not get around to it.
Everything lately has pretty seemed to grind our lives to a halt. At times it seems we have so many little fires going there's no way to put any of them out.
We decided to see a counselor together for a few sessions, but have been working as well to iron things out so that we're on the same page again about EVERYTHING.
Not that it excuses anything, but I've been suffering from some serious PPD and only went back on Paxil a couple weeks ago, and I've decided to find a counselor again for me for some Adderall because I know it'll help me to be able to be calm enough to work things out well again...
SO that should help...geez...I'm sorry to anyone who could care less, but yeah..we've had more going on than just "unschooling" and "academics"...It has been one incredibly long and difficult year for our family...It's like juggling in a way...we had certain balls (ourselves, marriage, his job) going well...then we added four little clubs in slowly, the last three a little quicker than we liked but that was ok, we kept them going and it wasn't really any trouble......and then other things started coming at us from nowhere (sticks, and plates, and ribbons) and it has been too much...you lose your focus and things will drop.
So things dropped a couple weeks ago...we're still trying to get the balls and the clubs going again and to heck with sticks and plates and ribbons...if that makes any sense!
Paul and I are talking more than we have in months, and we'll make it through all of this, I'm sure.
One thing positive in the last week has been specifcally in regards to the kids being at home. Paul said he'll back off and watch longer before saying he thinks unschooling is a failure and we need to go back to more traditional academics. He's just really worried about the kids ending up behind. I said I recognized that concern, and explained that we're still deschooling right now. I also asked Sarah to read some of her Brownie book that she's been working on aloud to Daddy so he could hear her, he was surprised because he hadn't realized how much she's improved. I asked him to play store with her or something if he was worried about her math skills, and to email with her from work (and home) if he's worried about her writing. He said he would...
MamaBeth
Everything I need to know, I learned on my own!
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