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I sent Marcia's original questions to a professional violinist mom here who
homeschools (not quite unschools) four young children and also works with
homeschooled violin students. Sorry it took a few days but here it is as just
received. I was glad she agreed to have her answer posted to this list.

Subject: need your professional advice re violin intro, for an unschooler >
>
> Hi G - hope your holiday was happy and that you can take a few
> minutes to help someone on a huge national unschooling list? I volunteered you! <g>
>
> I won't post your answer to the list if you just want me to send it to
> her private email addy, or if you would like to help over 1,000 unschoolers
> reading along but don't want me to use your name or email, I could post it
> without those. Any perspective or advice you can offer would be so appreciated
> -- JJ
>
>
>
> Your concerns about the "toy" violin sounding awful are made reality for
> many people! Fact is, any violin you can buy for $100 (or $150, for that
> matter) isn't going to have a very good sound, and yes, that can turn kids off not
> only because they know what does and doesn't sound good, but also because
> playing the violin takes some dexterity---good equipment is necessary as it
> "responds" to the player's efforts. It's a complex instrument w/many factors
> that contribute to sound production.
>
> My best suppliers for real violins are: Shar Music Co. (mail/online order)
> and The String House-Rochester. As for TOY violins, I am pretty old
> fashioned in my thinking. Because the "real" instrument is pretty fragile, the
> "toy" is an opportunity to teach a child to be careful as well as enjoy. It is
> imperative that the child has learned to be careful before starting with a real
> instrument---and "turning it over" to a child is a process. Would you hand
> your 3 yr old your best china? I start my little beginners (3-5) on a "box"
> violin before moving to the real one. Boxes are available from Shar Music
> Co. (online) or can be made by stuffing a flat 1 lb. margarine box w/newspaper
> (for weight), then wrapping with wide masking tape to cover the entire box.
> Cut a 1" slit along the center of one of the sides, toward the "top," and
> insert a paint "paddle" (as can be found for free at a paint store). This is
> the "toy" violin I used w/my students before the cardboard box "violins" came
> out. For a toy to throw around...well, I can't help you there. There is,
> however, a cool wood violin puzzle (very 3D) that's composed of colorful
> interlocking alphabet blocks. Found it in the Atlanta Symphony gift shop (online
> store) and probably elsewhere, $20.
> *************************
>
> I first answered thusly:
>
> Dunno if this will help, but my little guy wanted to play the violin
> at age four. So I bought one and signed him up for Suzuki, in which the mom
> and
> child supposedly learn together. Well, the first assignment was to build a
> toy violin, from a box covered in brown shopping-bag paper and strings drawn
> on
> with red magic marker. One end had a paint paddle attached to be the "neck.
>
> No sound to worry about sounding bad at least! <g>
>
> The idea was that little children really need to be able to make
> mistakes, to be rough, to fumble and drop it, whatever. The first task is to
>
> ingrain the standing still, the standing straight, the tucking under the
> chin at the
> right spot, the lifting and lowering and repositioning, et cetera, ad
> nauseum. Not making actual sound.
>
> I don't mean to misrepresent the method or diss violin playing -- it
> did not work for us, obviously, probably for were many reasons other than
> this
> and that wouldn't apply to your situation anyway. My only real point is that
>
> when this method DOES work, it all starts by building and handling your own
> toy
> violin and then not playing at all. If you can get anything helpful out of
> this, more power to you! <gg> JJ
>
> Poor JJ and son---I can see how the magic wore off! I have always felt that
> minimizing the "soundless" stage of learning the violin was important. My
> approach is somewhat different: Teach the child to "baby" the toy violin,
> treat it carefully (yes, there will be spills, but this is to learn on); Teach
> the child how to hold the toy violin, dowel-stick bow, and move the bow in
> small strokes that are perpendicular to the strings (cool scientific principal
> here, as any bow that is not truly perpendicular will create squeaks). When
> the above steps have been learned well, THEN get the real instrument. If
> done well, the first time the child holds the real violin, he/she will make good
> (not squeaky) violin-sounds. Now many of you can see why Holt "dissed" the
> Suzuki Method---too structured (sequenced)---too much adult control.
>
> Honestly, I do not know if it is possible to truly "unschool" learning to
> play the violin, tho I'd like to try. There is no doubt it can (and should) be
> taught in a positive, fun manner and include plenty of games (that
> ultimately teach good technique), but to NOT get structured instruction and expect
> real progress, well success is questionable under those circumstances. The
> instrument is just very complicated and would be tricky to figure out. The
> instrument "hold" and bow "hold" require very specific instruction, or it is
> impossible to do that "perpendicular move," thus, impossible to create a
> sterotypical violin-sound. As a teacher, I'd be willing to experiment (provide
> "guidance" and suggestions to a parent and leave things very open)! My home school
> students have always been my best students (and are the reason MY kids learn
> at home). If any body could "unschool" violin, it would be a home learner!
>
>
> ******************
>

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Robyn Coburn

<<<Because the "real" instrument is pretty fragile, the
> "toy" is an opportunity to teach a child to be careful as well as enjoy.
It is
> imperative that the child has learned to be careful before starting with a
real
> instrument---and "turning it over" to a child is a process. Would you
hand
> your 3 yr old your best china? I start my little beginners (3-5) on a
"box"
> violin before moving to the real one. Boxes are available from Shar Music

> Co. (online) or can be made by stuffing a flat 1 lb. margarine box
w/newspaper
> (for weight), then wrapping with wide masking tape to cover the entire
box.
> Cut a 1" slit along the center of one of the sides, toward the "top," and
> insert a paint "paddle" (as can be found for free at a paint store). This
is
> the "toy" violin I used w/my students before the cardboard box "violins"
came
> out. For a toy to throw around...well, I can't help you there. There is,

> however, a cool wood violin puzzle (very 3D) that's composed of colorful
> interlocking alphabet blocks. Found it in the Atlanta Symphony gift shop
(online
> store) and probably elsewhere, $20. >>>



I guess I don't truly understand this cardboard box idea - especially for
the child who has been asking for a real violin consistently for the last
two years. I bet a creative unschooled child who wanted a toy cardboard box
violin would make one for herself. It somehow seems manipulative and
untrusting. It's a moot point now because the original poster has already
said they have found an inexpensive one - I think. It reminds me of the
passage in "How Children Learn" when Holt describes the Montessori math
manipulatives that can only be used the "correct" way or the teacher takes
them away. Naturally Holt disagreed with this approach.

Jayn (recently 4) has two small electronic keyboards, the second one we
bought because she wanted the microphone attachment to sing into. I guess we
could have given her a cardboard tube and the old keyboard, but she would
have continued to ask for the microphone one.

As for the china analogy, Jayn has several tea sets. Some are china. She
also has a number of fragile china dolls. She knows they are breakable and
plays with them accordingly. Some have had broken limbs from accidents, and
I have repaired them. It doesn't mean that she should be given only pictures
of dolls, or paper tea cups, until I deem she will be careful enough. There
is a whole range between "the best china" and something completely fake. I
don't think the kid who was asking for a violin was planning to "throw it
around".

Robyn L. Coburn



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