reports
Devapriya
Sandra,
I listened to the tape of you and Richard Prystowsky recently called
Seeing the Writing on the Wall Even When its Not There. It was great. I
learned a lot. You were talking about reports and writing for a real
purpose (like a review for Amazon). Then you told a story about Holly
hearing you and Marty, I think, talking about reports on books or
movies. And she enthusiastically said she wanted to write a report. And
you said to her, "I don't want a report". Now I trust that you had a
good reason but can you explain why you responded like this? I would
like to understand fully. I'm thinking that maybe you wanted her to
understand that a report is written when someone wants one for a real
reason. A lot of parents, even unschoolers, would be tempted to try to,
in a subtle way, encourage writing, or at least not discourage. I don't
think you were really trying to discourage, but instead had some clear
good intention.
I do know that with my son who has been to PS that I have to really
be careful not to react more to schoolish type interests, because he
picks up on it and has an aversion to doing these things if they are
considered schoolish and therefore more desirable. Recently, after I
had listened to yours and Richards tape, we went to Six Flags which my
son had been hankering after for some time. He was so excited and
afterwards talked a lot about it. (Now this is a kid who doesn't do a
whole lot of reading and never liked to write. He's 11. Recently I have
been making it known that invented spelling is totally fine and not to
hesitate to write because of not knowing how to spell. That has helped
a lot.)
So after the Six Flags day, he announced one day that he had found
himself a journal downstairs that he could write in. I was totally
surprised because he always knew they were there and available. AND,
because he had never expressed any interest in writing. So I just said
somewhat casually, "great". Then after breakfast, he said, "I'm gonna
go write in my journal". I could tell by the way he said it that he had
something to write about. I again responded casually. So he wrote in
his journal for a few days in a row in the same way they had done in
school, just writing about what they did the previous day etc. I
almost slipped and asked him about it later and my initial reaction was
to praise him or kind of acknowledge that he had a breakthrough. But I
caught myself and didn't say anything just like I don't praise him for
video gaming stuff. If he's excited about reaching a new level tho, I
will share in his excitement with him. But he didn't mention the
writing so I didn't. I peeked later without him knowing. I was very
curious about the content and somewhat about the spelling. He was
writing about Six Flags! It was cute. Not a lot of writing, maybe half
a page which I guess is a lot considering it came from his own
motivation. YEA! Spelling was as I expected. This was very encouraging
to me and interesting that his excitement about Six Flags inspired
writing. One interesting note is that all the entries were as tho he
were writing TO someone, like at the end he wrote something like, "
I'll get back to you later". So he wrote for maybe 6 days and thats
about it.
Sorry this is long. Thanks for reading! And thanks for the talk by
you and Richard.
Kathy
I listened to the tape of you and Richard Prystowsky recently called
Seeing the Writing on the Wall Even When its Not There. It was great. I
learned a lot. You were talking about reports and writing for a real
purpose (like a review for Amazon). Then you told a story about Holly
hearing you and Marty, I think, talking about reports on books or
movies. And she enthusiastically said she wanted to write a report. And
you said to her, "I don't want a report". Now I trust that you had a
good reason but can you explain why you responded like this? I would
like to understand fully. I'm thinking that maybe you wanted her to
understand that a report is written when someone wants one for a real
reason. A lot of parents, even unschoolers, would be tempted to try to,
in a subtle way, encourage writing, or at least not discourage. I don't
think you were really trying to discourage, but instead had some clear
good intention.
I do know that with my son who has been to PS that I have to really
be careful not to react more to schoolish type interests, because he
picks up on it and has an aversion to doing these things if they are
considered schoolish and therefore more desirable. Recently, after I
had listened to yours and Richards tape, we went to Six Flags which my
son had been hankering after for some time. He was so excited and
afterwards talked a lot about it. (Now this is a kid who doesn't do a
whole lot of reading and never liked to write. He's 11. Recently I have
been making it known that invented spelling is totally fine and not to
hesitate to write because of not knowing how to spell. That has helped
a lot.)
So after the Six Flags day, he announced one day that he had found
himself a journal downstairs that he could write in. I was totally
surprised because he always knew they were there and available. AND,
because he had never expressed any interest in writing. So I just said
somewhat casually, "great". Then after breakfast, he said, "I'm gonna
go write in my journal". I could tell by the way he said it that he had
something to write about. I again responded casually. So he wrote in
his journal for a few days in a row in the same way they had done in
school, just writing about what they did the previous day etc. I
almost slipped and asked him about it later and my initial reaction was
to praise him or kind of acknowledge that he had a breakthrough. But I
caught myself and didn't say anything just like I don't praise him for
video gaming stuff. If he's excited about reaching a new level tho, I
will share in his excitement with him. But he didn't mention the
writing so I didn't. I peeked later without him knowing. I was very
curious about the content and somewhat about the spelling. He was
writing about Six Flags! It was cute. Not a lot of writing, maybe half
a page which I guess is a lot considering it came from his own
motivation. YEA! Spelling was as I expected. This was very encouraging
to me and interesting that his excitement about Six Flags inspired
writing. One interesting note is that all the entries were as tho he
were writing TO someone, like at the end he wrote something like, "
I'll get back to you later". So he wrote for maybe 6 days and thats
about it.
Sorry this is long. Thanks for reading! And thanks for the talk by
you and Richard.
Kathy
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/30/03 10:29:20 AM,
UnschoolingDiscussion-accept-viETW=[email protected] writes:
<< Then you told a story about Holly hearing you
and Marty, I think, talking about reports on books or
movies. And she enthusiastically said she wanted to write a
report. And you said to her, "I don't want a report". >>
I didn't want her to write a report to make me happy.
I didn't want her to think writing reports was inherently better than not
writing reports.
And I've taught Jr. High English, and I always loved English as a kid an took
extra English classes and went to college and majored in English and took
other classes that wanted "reports" and then I went to grad school and write
reports (and dropped out, and went again, and dropped out, and...)
"Reports" of the practice/school style are like the sandbags of my soggy
former life, and I don't want any more of them.
After I started writing this, I had an interesting writing incident with
Holly, but Kirby really wants the computer and I'll have to tell it later.
Sandra
UnschoolingDiscussion-accept-viETW=[email protected] writes:
<< Then you told a story about Holly hearing you
and Marty, I think, talking about reports on books or
movies. And she enthusiastically said she wanted to write a
report. And you said to her, "I don't want a report". >>
I didn't want her to write a report to make me happy.
I didn't want her to think writing reports was inherently better than not
writing reports.
And I've taught Jr. High English, and I always loved English as a kid an took
extra English classes and went to college and majored in English and took
other classes that wanted "reports" and then I went to grad school and write
reports (and dropped out, and went again, and dropped out, and...)
"Reports" of the practice/school style are like the sandbags of my soggy
former life, and I don't want any more of them.
After I started writing this, I had an interesting writing incident with
Holly, but Kirby really wants the computer and I'll have to tell it later.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/30/03 10:29:20 AM,
UnschoolingDiscussion-accept-viETW=[email protected] writes:
<< Then you told a story about Holly hearing you
and Marty, I think, talking about reports on books or
movies. And she enthusiastically said she wanted to write a
report. And you said to her, "I don't want a report". >>
I didn't want her to write a report to make me happy.
I didn't want her to think writing reports was inherently better than not
writing reports.
And I've taught Jr. High English, and I always loved English as a kid an took
extra English classes and went to college and majored in English and took
other classes that wanted "reports" and then I went to grad school and write
reports (and dropped out, and went again, and dropped out, and...)
"Reports" of the practice/school style are like the sandbags of my soggy
former life, and I don't want any more of them.
After I started writing this, I had an interesting writing incident with
Holly, but Kirby really wants the computer and I'll have to tell it later.
Thanks for the kind words about that presentation, though, and I'll get back
to it.
Sandra
UnschoolingDiscussion-accept-viETW=[email protected] writes:
<< Then you told a story about Holly hearing you
and Marty, I think, talking about reports on books or
movies. And she enthusiastically said she wanted to write a
report. And you said to her, "I don't want a report". >>
I didn't want her to write a report to make me happy.
I didn't want her to think writing reports was inherently better than not
writing reports.
And I've taught Jr. High English, and I always loved English as a kid an took
extra English classes and went to college and majored in English and took
other classes that wanted "reports" and then I went to grad school and write
reports (and dropped out, and went again, and dropped out, and...)
"Reports" of the practice/school style are like the sandbags of my soggy
former life, and I don't want any more of them.
After I started writing this, I had an interesting writing incident with
Holly, but Kirby really wants the computer and I'll have to tell it later.
Thanks for the kind words about that presentation, though, and I'll get back
to it.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/30/2003 12:37:18 PM Central Standard Time,
devapriya108@... writes:
I know that if I thought ANYONE would look in my journal, I would never write
another word.
I hope he doesn't find out that you peeked.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
devapriya108@... writes:
> I peeked later without him knowing. I was very~~~~
> curious about the content and somewhat about the spelling.
I know that if I thought ANYONE would look in my journal, I would never write
another word.
I hope he doesn't find out that you peeked.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/30/03 11:37:02 AM, devapriya108@... writes:
<< And she enthusiastically said she wanted to write a report. And
you said to her, "I don't want a report". Now I trust that you had a
good reason but can you explain why you responded like this? I would
like to understand fully. I'm thinking that maybe you wanted her to
understand that a report is written when someone wants one for a real
reason. >>
As it turned out, I laminated it and used it in a workshop on writing. <g>
-=-A lot of parents, even unschoolers, would be tempted to try to,
in a subtle way, encourage writing, or at least not discourage. I don't
think you were really trying to discourage, but instead had some clear
good intention.-=-
We were joking around and I was telling them about school book reports, and
she said she wanted to write one.
I don't have a scanner working, but I'll try to put it up where people can
see it someday. It's very decorated and decorative.
-=- I do know that with my son who has been to PS that I have to really
be careful not to react more to schoolish type interests, because he
picks up on it and has an aversion to doing these things if they are
considered schoolish and therefore more desirable. -=-
When Marty was little I used to tease him if he would read something aloud
(the name of a business, or a word off a billboard) and say "STOP! If I wanted
you to read, I would have sent you to school." He thought it was hilarious
that he was "rebelling" by learning to read against my will.
It was along the lines of that when I told Holly I didn't want a report. It
wasn't the reverse psychology of "no, no, I really don't want one," though. I
really did NOT want one!! <g>
The last few years I taught, book reports took the form of private
discussions, with the book in hand and the kid could look things up to read me good
parts or find characters' names if they needed to. I didn't care if they said
they didn't like the book, or that they had stopped "here" and showed me how
far they had gotten before they decided to bail. The point was to discuss
something they had read (rather than to have finished and summarized a book).
I do that sort of thing with my kids all the time, so the traditional written
book report to prove the book had been read, or to practice writing reports
(I shudder at that justification) has no place in my life.
-=-But he didn't mention the
writing so I didn't. I peeked later without him knowing. I was very
curious about the content and somewhat about the spelling. He was
writing about Six Flags! It was cute.-=-
I noticed someone criticized your looking. If he wanted it secret he
could've hidden it.
My kids and husband read over my shoulder lots of times. If I have something
secret to write (which is rare) I do it in secret.
Marty and Kirby share my computer sometimes. Sometimes they leave files
open. Sometimes I've had to look at an "untitled" or oddly named file on the
desktop to see where to put it. I see their writing there.
One of the things I read into the record at that workshop (or at least passed
around for people to see) was some online role playing stuff of Kirby's. It
was really good. Its goodness wasn't in technicalities, but in the aliveness
of the language, in the "voice" of the character, and in the tenderness of the
treatment of the other character (he was being the dad to a young daughter,
and this wasn't a "public" scene, but was in a chatroom, just the two of
them---part of "storyline," but not in the way of in-person D&D games in front of
the whole group).
I got Kirby's permission to use that, though, before I used it. I didn't get
his permission to read it before I read it.
Now that he has his own computer, I wouldn't look at anything on there.
What's on my physical or electronic desktop for me to have to move or clean up,
though, seems fair game.
My kids know my passwords. They can look at stuff on my computer. Things I
want to keep close (Christmas notes and such) are named things they wouldn't
think to look in.
I found one of Marty's role playing scenes the other day. It was really
sweet too.
There's never cause in school to "write something sweet." All the sweet
stuff is love notes and they're confiscated and the kid's in trouble for writing
and passing them.
-=-Sorry this is long. Thanks for reading! And thanks for the talk by
you and Richard.-=-
Well you're welcome. <g>
There are two other tapes of co-presentations by Richard and me. I think
they're both better than the one on writing. One is "To Question or Not to
Question: That is the Question," and "Peaceful Parenting."
Sandra
<< And she enthusiastically said she wanted to write a report. And
you said to her, "I don't want a report". Now I trust that you had a
good reason but can you explain why you responded like this? I would
like to understand fully. I'm thinking that maybe you wanted her to
understand that a report is written when someone wants one for a real
reason. >>
As it turned out, I laminated it and used it in a workshop on writing. <g>
-=-A lot of parents, even unschoolers, would be tempted to try to,
in a subtle way, encourage writing, or at least not discourage. I don't
think you were really trying to discourage, but instead had some clear
good intention.-=-
We were joking around and I was telling them about school book reports, and
she said she wanted to write one.
I don't have a scanner working, but I'll try to put it up where people can
see it someday. It's very decorated and decorative.
-=- I do know that with my son who has been to PS that I have to really
be careful not to react more to schoolish type interests, because he
picks up on it and has an aversion to doing these things if they are
considered schoolish and therefore more desirable. -=-
When Marty was little I used to tease him if he would read something aloud
(the name of a business, or a word off a billboard) and say "STOP! If I wanted
you to read, I would have sent you to school." He thought it was hilarious
that he was "rebelling" by learning to read against my will.
It was along the lines of that when I told Holly I didn't want a report. It
wasn't the reverse psychology of "no, no, I really don't want one," though. I
really did NOT want one!! <g>
The last few years I taught, book reports took the form of private
discussions, with the book in hand and the kid could look things up to read me good
parts or find characters' names if they needed to. I didn't care if they said
they didn't like the book, or that they had stopped "here" and showed me how
far they had gotten before they decided to bail. The point was to discuss
something they had read (rather than to have finished and summarized a book).
I do that sort of thing with my kids all the time, so the traditional written
book report to prove the book had been read, or to practice writing reports
(I shudder at that justification) has no place in my life.
-=-But he didn't mention the
writing so I didn't. I peeked later without him knowing. I was very
curious about the content and somewhat about the spelling. He was
writing about Six Flags! It was cute.-=-
I noticed someone criticized your looking. If he wanted it secret he
could've hidden it.
My kids and husband read over my shoulder lots of times. If I have something
secret to write (which is rare) I do it in secret.
Marty and Kirby share my computer sometimes. Sometimes they leave files
open. Sometimes I've had to look at an "untitled" or oddly named file on the
desktop to see where to put it. I see their writing there.
One of the things I read into the record at that workshop (or at least passed
around for people to see) was some online role playing stuff of Kirby's. It
was really good. Its goodness wasn't in technicalities, but in the aliveness
of the language, in the "voice" of the character, and in the tenderness of the
treatment of the other character (he was being the dad to a young daughter,
and this wasn't a "public" scene, but was in a chatroom, just the two of
them---part of "storyline," but not in the way of in-person D&D games in front of
the whole group).
I got Kirby's permission to use that, though, before I used it. I didn't get
his permission to read it before I read it.
Now that he has his own computer, I wouldn't look at anything on there.
What's on my physical or electronic desktop for me to have to move or clean up,
though, seems fair game.
My kids know my passwords. They can look at stuff on my computer. Things I
want to keep close (Christmas notes and such) are named things they wouldn't
think to look in.
I found one of Marty's role playing scenes the other day. It was really
sweet too.
There's never cause in school to "write something sweet." All the sweet
stuff is love notes and they're confiscated and the kid's in trouble for writing
and passing them.
-=-Sorry this is long. Thanks for reading! And thanks for the talk by
you and Richard.-=-
Well you're welcome. <g>
There are two other tapes of co-presentations by Richard and me. I think
they're both better than the one on writing. One is "To Question or Not to
Question: That is the Question," and "Peaceful Parenting."
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/30/2003 9:10:11 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
HUH??? It's a JOURNAL, not a publication. It's rude to read someone's
writing unless you ask.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> -=-But he didn't mention the~~~
> writing so I didn't. I peeked later without him knowing. I was very
> curious about the content and somewhat about the spelling. He was
> writing about Six Flags! It was cute.-=-
>
> I noticed someone criticized your looking. If he wanted it secret he
> could've hidden it.
>
HUH??? It's a JOURNAL, not a publication. It's rude to read someone's
writing unless you ask.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
From: <tuckervill2@...>
<<HUH??? It's a JOURNAL, not a publication. It's rude to read someone's
writing unless you ask.>>
I agree also. If they are writing among everyone else and talking about what
they are writing, it's pretty obvious they wouldn't mind sharing what it's
about. If they are writing alone in their room and not making announcements
about it, it's private.
Random pieces of paper lying around, I pick up and read. A book kept in the
childs room, no I wouldn't.
Sierra has taken to writing in an old diary that was Tara's. I don't know
where she got the idea from but I know she writes in it. I know because she
goes in her room alone, closes the door, sits on her bed and writes. A few
times when I was looking for her, I've seen her do it. She has also asked
for a lock for it. I'm going to buy her a new one for Christmas. Every now
and then she asks how to spell something. I am very curious about what a 7
year old is writing about but I haven't even ventured to open it. Just
wouldn't be right.
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
<<HUH??? It's a JOURNAL, not a publication. It's rude to read someone's
writing unless you ask.>>
I agree also. If they are writing among everyone else and talking about what
they are writing, it's pretty obvious they wouldn't mind sharing what it's
about. If they are writing alone in their room and not making announcements
about it, it's private.
Random pieces of paper lying around, I pick up and read. A book kept in the
childs room, no I wouldn't.
Sierra has taken to writing in an old diary that was Tara's. I don't know
where she got the idea from but I know she writes in it. I know because she
goes in her room alone, closes the door, sits on her bed and writes. A few
times when I was looking for her, I've seen her do it. She has also asked
for a lock for it. I'm going to buy her a new one for Christmas. Every now
and then she asks how to spell something. I am very curious about what a 7
year old is writing about but I haven't even ventured to open it. Just
wouldn't be right.
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/1/03 10:43:14 AM, mummy124@... writes:
<< Random pieces of paper lying around, I pick up and read. A book kept in the
childs room, no I wouldn't.
I thought it was a family-owned book left in a public room.
The going fad among kids these days is online journals, written specifically
to be public, at least to their circle of friends. One of Kirby's older
(20's) friends wanted Kirby's advice about a social problem. Kirby asked for
background and the guy said "read my journal," and Kirby said "No," that he
didn't want to have to do his own research to help this guy with his journal.
In a couple of recent deaths of teens, their online journals have been cited
as having clues or general information applicable to their state of mind and
relationships.
I suppose if there came to be some violent craziness in my family people
could pretty easily search lists archives and websites and quote me to the police
or the press.
The line's not as sharp as it was. Marty writing in a book in his room isn't
nearly near Marty having an instant message window open on my computer.
That's more like writing on a chalkboard in the kitchen.
I have a xerox-box (paper box, but the not-so-generic name for the nice-lids,
holds ten reams of paper boxes) for each of my kids of things they want saved
but they don't want in their rooms, or things I'm saving for them. Birthday
cards from grandma. The outfits they wore in their first birthday portraits.
Samples of art and writing from when they were little.
Kirby's girlfriend broke up with him and he had a stash of letters from her,
folded into their own little origamish envelopes, decorated. I put them in
his box for him. I had no temptation whatsoever to read them.
Twice when he's written notes to girls (one was typed and printed, one was
e-mail) he's asked me for help to say just what he wanted to say. There's
another kind of blurring. I'm not his adversary. The tradition of kids and
parents having lots of secrets from each other isn't the same in our family as in
the families of most of the kids my age I grew up with.
My kids don't have online journals, but I've seen a few of the other kids'.
Another mom and I were discussing a social problem among the homeschoolers,
and it ended up involving discussion of those journals. She had seen them too.
One of the boys was really angry and had put in blustery threats toward Marty
(posturing stuff) and we were hoping not to make things worse in a couple of
upcoming social gatherings. Those kids have known each other since birth,
some of them, and have shared friends and activities.
Sandra
<< Random pieces of paper lying around, I pick up and read. A book kept in the
childs room, no I wouldn't.
>>I agree.
I thought it was a family-owned book left in a public room.
The going fad among kids these days is online journals, written specifically
to be public, at least to their circle of friends. One of Kirby's older
(20's) friends wanted Kirby's advice about a social problem. Kirby asked for
background and the guy said "read my journal," and Kirby said "No," that he
didn't want to have to do his own research to help this guy with his journal.
In a couple of recent deaths of teens, their online journals have been cited
as having clues or general information applicable to their state of mind and
relationships.
I suppose if there came to be some violent craziness in my family people
could pretty easily search lists archives and websites and quote me to the police
or the press.
The line's not as sharp as it was. Marty writing in a book in his room isn't
nearly near Marty having an instant message window open on my computer.
That's more like writing on a chalkboard in the kitchen.
I have a xerox-box (paper box, but the not-so-generic name for the nice-lids,
holds ten reams of paper boxes) for each of my kids of things they want saved
but they don't want in their rooms, or things I'm saving for them. Birthday
cards from grandma. The outfits they wore in their first birthday portraits.
Samples of art and writing from when they were little.
Kirby's girlfriend broke up with him and he had a stash of letters from her,
folded into their own little origamish envelopes, decorated. I put them in
his box for him. I had no temptation whatsoever to read them.
Twice when he's written notes to girls (one was typed and printed, one was
e-mail) he's asked me for help to say just what he wanted to say. There's
another kind of blurring. I'm not his adversary. The tradition of kids and
parents having lots of secrets from each other isn't the same in our family as in
the families of most of the kids my age I grew up with.
My kids don't have online journals, but I've seen a few of the other kids'.
Another mom and I were discussing a social problem among the homeschoolers,
and it ended up involving discussion of those journals. She had seen them too.
One of the boys was really angry and had put in blustery threats toward Marty
(posturing stuff) and we were hoping not to make things worse in a couple of
upcoming social gatherings. Those kids have known each other since birth,
some of them, and have shared friends and activities.
Sandra
Wife2Vegman
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
kids are growing up with.
I think the difference is between mutual respect and
mutual suspicion.
My daughter Sarah has been writing a book for the last
3 years, on her own. She has asked me not to read it
until she is done. I know she will share it when she
is ready, or maybe not. And I am ok with that.
Respect leads to trust. Sarah frequently shows me her
email and notes from her friends, her poems and songs
that she writes, tells me everything about their
conversations, etc. because I don't put her in a
position where she has to hide anything from me.
A 17yo I know has been doing very risky things,
involving drugs, unprotected sex, stealing, etc. His
parents can't trust him and have another, younger son
at home to protect. So they do read his mail, his
IMs, etc. They have spyware on their computer that
captures all the IMs so that they can read them. I
think their actions are justified to protect the
younger brother and try to help the older boy.
Another family I know does the same thing with their
teenage daughter, reading her e-mails and IMs and
listening in on the phone extension. She is convinced
her parents are the ones who keep putting her tofu and
soymilk (which she buys with her own money) in the
freezer because she decided to be a vegetarian and
they don't want her to.
=====
--Susan in Sterling, VA
"In our every deliberation we must consider the impact
of our decisions on the next seven generations" -- The
Great Law of the Iroquois Confederacy
__________________________________
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>Or even in most of the families of the kids our own
> There's
> another kind of blurring. I'm not his adversary.
> The tradition of kids and
> parents having lots of secrets from each other isn't
> the same in our family as in
> the families of most of the kids my age I grew up
> with.
kids are growing up with.
I think the difference is between mutual respect and
mutual suspicion.
My daughter Sarah has been writing a book for the last
3 years, on her own. She has asked me not to read it
until she is done. I know she will share it when she
is ready, or maybe not. And I am ok with that.
Respect leads to trust. Sarah frequently shows me her
email and notes from her friends, her poems and songs
that she writes, tells me everything about their
conversations, etc. because I don't put her in a
position where she has to hide anything from me.
A 17yo I know has been doing very risky things,
involving drugs, unprotected sex, stealing, etc. His
parents can't trust him and have another, younger son
at home to protect. So they do read his mail, his
IMs, etc. They have spyware on their computer that
captures all the IMs so that they can read them. I
think their actions are justified to protect the
younger brother and try to help the older boy.
Another family I know does the same thing with their
teenage daughter, reading her e-mails and IMs and
listening in on the phone extension. She is convinced
her parents are the ones who keep putting her tofu and
soymilk (which she buys with her own money) in the
freezer because she decided to be a vegetarian and
they don't want her to.
=====
--Susan in Sterling, VA
"In our every deliberation we must consider the impact
of our decisions on the next seven generations" -- The
Great Law of the Iroquois Confederacy
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In a message dated 12/1/2003 5:58:22 PM Mountain Standard Time,
wifetovegman2002@... writes:
-=-Sarah frequently shows me her
email and notes from her friends, her poems and songs
that she writes, tells me everything about their
conversations, etc. because I don't put her in a
position where she has to hide anything from me.-=-
I bet that's the difference.
They're not hiding things because they're not sneaky and they're not going to
get in trouble.
-=-A 17yo I know has been doing very risky things,
involving drugs, unprotected sex, stealing, etc. His
parents can't trust him and have another, younger son
at home to protect. So they do read his mail, his
IMs, etc.-=-
Unschoolers?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wifetovegman2002@... writes:
-=-Sarah frequently shows me her
email and notes from her friends, her poems and songs
that she writes, tells me everything about their
conversations, etc. because I don't put her in a
position where she has to hide anything from me.-=-
I bet that's the difference.
They're not hiding things because they're not sneaky and they're not going to
get in trouble.
-=-A 17yo I know has been doing very risky things,
involving drugs, unprotected sex, stealing, etc. His
parents can't trust him and have another, younger son
at home to protect. So they do read his mail, his
IMs, etc.-=-
Unschoolers?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wife2Vegman
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
me think of the Simpsons every time). Very strict
about behavior and conduct. Sent him to school for
high school.
I guess I understand their need to protect the younger
child so it sort of justifies in my mind reading his
mail and such. Not that they didn't create the
problem to begin with, but the little guy shouldn't
have to suffer because of it, I suppose.
wifetovegman
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>Nope. "Relaxed" school-at-homers (I love that...makes
> -=-A 17yo I know has been doing very risky things,
> involving drugs, unprotected sex, stealing, etc.
> His
> parents can't trust him and have another, younger
> son
> at home to protect. So they do read his mail, his
> IMs, etc.-=-
>
> Unschoolers?
>
> Sandra
me think of the Simpsons every time). Very strict
about behavior and conduct. Sent him to school for
high school.
I guess I understand their need to protect the younger
child so it sort of justifies in my mind reading his
mail and such. Not that they didn't create the
problem to begin with, but the little guy shouldn't
have to suffer because of it, I suppose.
wifetovegman
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Fetteroll
From: <tuckervill2@...>
himself. If he were writing secretly then it would be obvious he wanted it
secret. He announced twice that he was going to go write.
You could ask now. And regardless of his answer, apologize for reading it
already. Tell him you realized that it was rude and you should have asked
him for permission first. Not only will you get rid of the secret peek
hanging between you but you'll acknowledge to him that his feelings are
important to you.
Joyce
> HUH??? It's a JOURNAL, not a publication. It's rude to read someone'sI'd ask if I could read it or whether it was something he wanted to keep for
> writing unless you ask.
himself. If he were writing secretly then it would be obvious he wanted it
secret. He announced twice that he was going to go write.
You could ask now. And regardless of his answer, apologize for reading it
already. Tell him you realized that it was rude and you should have asked
him for permission first. Not only will you get rid of the secret peek
hanging between you but you'll acknowledge to him that his feelings are
important to you.
Joyce
Devapriya
> Message: 14Correct. And I certainly have not been meaning to make a case for
> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 06:14:33 -0500
> From: Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
> Subject: Re: reports
>
> From: <tuckervill2@...>
>
>> HUH??? It's a JOURNAL, not a publication. It's rude to read
>> someone's
>> writing unless you ask.
>
> I'd ask if I could read it or whether it was something he wanted to
> keep for
> himself. If he were writing secretly then it would be obvious he
> wanted it
> secret. He announced twice that he was going to go write.
the point
of view that I think its ok. I don't. I agree that it is wrong to
read without asking
first. I think where I was coming from was more of a place of not
wanting to draw attention to
the fact that he was writing for reasons I explained in the first
post. Since being in public school
> he has been rebellious towards learning schoolish stuff, likeit was no big deal because I wasn't sure how to handle it and I am
> writing. So I was purposely acting like
interested in how his "unschooling" is going.
>great suggestion. I just did that.
>
> You could ask now. And regardless of his answer, apologize for reading
> it
> already. Tell him you realized that it was rude and you should have
> asked
> him for permission first. Not only will you get rid of the secret peek
> hanging between you but you'll acknowledge to him that his feelings are
> important to you.
I asked if he minded that I read it. He said, "no, .....its just
boring stuff that I did." He replied very casually.
Then I apologized for reading it without asking and he said very
casually, "doesn't matter".
But I do agree I was wrong.
> Joyce
>>
>>