X-mas dilemna
Ren
"I would never tell my husband what he could or couldn't do, i.e.
needing my permission. "
Never? Are you sure? Having personal boundaries means you DO tell people "no, that is NOT ok" about certain things. If my dh was going to do something that bothered me, I would tell him so. It's called respect. You aren't doing your children any favors if you know (according to you) that they will be disappointed on X-mas day without any gifts to open. Telling them "do whatever, it's yours" is why they're opening them.
Until a gift is GIVEN, it's not the other persons. And why even wait until Christmas day to have a celebration if you're going to just let them do "whatever"? I don't get it.
Either you care about having gifts on Christmas day or you don't. They do, you said so. So understand enough about child development to realize they don't have the self control of an adult and keep things put away.
Maybe put out a dollar store goody every few days that they can open, to make it easier to wait. I think each family can do have their own unique ways of celebrating, and if opening the gifts all month works for you, great! But you're saying it won't make them happy, and yet you don't seem to want advice to the contrary.
Freedom doesn't equal ignoring other people's needs/desires/ wants. I don't think it helps children figure out the world to not point those things out to them. I think it's hugely ignoring children's capabilities and development to say "do what you want" and KNOW they will be sad on Christmas day and yet lack the ability to control their desire to see the gift.
??
Ren
needing my permission. "
Never? Are you sure? Having personal boundaries means you DO tell people "no, that is NOT ok" about certain things. If my dh was going to do something that bothered me, I would tell him so. It's called respect. You aren't doing your children any favors if you know (according to you) that they will be disappointed on X-mas day without any gifts to open. Telling them "do whatever, it's yours" is why they're opening them.
Until a gift is GIVEN, it's not the other persons. And why even wait until Christmas day to have a celebration if you're going to just let them do "whatever"? I don't get it.
Either you care about having gifts on Christmas day or you don't. They do, you said so. So understand enough about child development to realize they don't have the self control of an adult and keep things put away.
Maybe put out a dollar store goody every few days that they can open, to make it easier to wait. I think each family can do have their own unique ways of celebrating, and if opening the gifts all month works for you, great! But you're saying it won't make them happy, and yet you don't seem to want advice to the contrary.
Freedom doesn't equal ignoring other people's needs/desires/ wants. I don't think it helps children figure out the world to not point those things out to them. I think it's hugely ignoring children's capabilities and development to say "do what you want" and KNOW they will be sad on Christmas day and yet lack the ability to control their desire to see the gift.
??
Ren
Ren
The other thing that bother me about the whole issue of should-the-kids-just-open-everything is what do YOU want? I would personally be very upset if my kids didn't have a bunch of presents and fun stuff to open on Christmas day.
Giving children choices and respecting them does not equal disregarding your own desires/wants/needs. It means EVERYONE'S desires are important and as a family we work together to achieve good for all. My children know it's important to me to have presents on Christmas day and they've never disregarded my feelings about that. I can leave stuff out for a couple of weeks with no one bothering them. SHaking and discussing and pondering, yes. Opening though? Never.
My desires are important too!!! Saying you'd NEVER tell your dh or kids what to do or not do makes me think you have a hard time setting personal boundaries. Is this the case?
YOUR desires are important too.
Never telling another human I love what to do or not do isn't my goal. Respecting their wishes and desires IS. But if someone wants to do something that bothers another person I will ask them to stop, and if they choose to continue a harmful behavior I will TELL them to stop.
There is freedom and there are other equally important values to learn in this life. Freedom isn't the only one.
Ren
Giving children choices and respecting them does not equal disregarding your own desires/wants/needs. It means EVERYONE'S desires are important and as a family we work together to achieve good for all. My children know it's important to me to have presents on Christmas day and they've never disregarded my feelings about that. I can leave stuff out for a couple of weeks with no one bothering them. SHaking and discussing and pondering, yes. Opening though? Never.
My desires are important too!!! Saying you'd NEVER tell your dh or kids what to do or not do makes me think you have a hard time setting personal boundaries. Is this the case?
YOUR desires are important too.
Never telling another human I love what to do or not do isn't my goal. Respecting their wishes and desires IS. But if someone wants to do something that bothers another person I will ask them to stop, and if they choose to continue a harmful behavior I will TELL them to stop.
There is freedom and there are other equally important values to learn in this life. Freedom isn't the only one.
Ren
liza sabater
On Wednesday, November 26, 2003, at 08:43 PM, Ren wrote:
hang everything from the three and kind of hide it. that really
maintains the excitement but, ironically, takes the focus off what they
get in the sense that, if they do not get the X Y or Z toy they were
expecting, at least they got a lot of loot and treats throughout the
season.
/ l i z a, nyc
============================
http://culturekitchen.com
http://blogundanga.com
http://typepadistas.com
and contributing to
http://radiofreeblogistan.com
> Maybe put out a dollar store goody every few days that they can open,i put candy, cookies little toys like hot wheel cars or mini puzzles. i
> to make it easier to wait. I think each family can do have their own
> unique ways of celebrating, and if opening the gifts all month works
> for you, great! But you're saying it won't make them happy, and yet
> you don't seem to want advice to the contrary.
hang everything from the three and kind of hide it. that really
maintains the excitement but, ironically, takes the focus off what they
get in the sense that, if they do not get the X Y or Z toy they were
expecting, at least they got a lot of loot and treats throughout the
season.
/ l i z a, nyc
============================
http://culturekitchen.com
http://blogundanga.com
http://typepadistas.com
and contributing to
http://radiofreeblogistan.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/26/2003 8:01:14 PM Central Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
SHaking and discussing and pondering, yes.
~~~
Argh. Shaking and touching are OUT. My kids are BRILLIANT. :) They ALWAYS
guess correctly. Spoils it for me.
I have disguised presents in the past, but it's no fun and I'm usually too
busy most years.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
SHaking and discussing and pondering, yes.
~~~
Argh. Shaking and touching are OUT. My kids are BRILLIANT. :) They ALWAYS
guess correctly. Spoils it for me.
I have disguised presents in the past, but it's no fun and I'm usually too
busy most years.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Advent calendars are good for this, religious or not. The children get
a little mini-celebration every day starting December 1. (This year our
8-year-old is actually counting the days to December First on the kitchen calendar,
rather than to Christmas Day! Really!)
We've always had a Nutcracker Calendar, a stand-up board with tiny
illustrated books each telling a few lines of the ballet story. Dad puts on his
velvet Santa hat and we all sit together as the children produce the book of
the evening for reading aloud. Then the youngest child present at the reading
gets to choose a spot on the tree to hang the book (there's a little gold cord
on each one.) The story builds and the tree fills up until Christmas Eve, when
the tall SugarPlum Fairy book is read by firelight. During the day, children
often remove the books from the tree to play with, read and replace (we also
put all their real Christmas books away with the decorations each year, and set
them out under the tree as colorful "atmosphere." They get enjoyed a LOT this
way!)
And the spot under the tree doesn't seem bereft even the very first day we
put it up.
This year, I guess tradition will be flexing a bit. Our son found his
own Advent calendar at a bookstore. That's why he's counting down the days.
It's a big Lego box with 24 little compartments, and inside each one (it seems -
we haven't reached Dec 1 yet to see) are a few Lego parts that can be built
into a tiny Lego Santa or sled or evergreen or other Christmas character or
object. I think as the month goes on, they can be played with and recombined
(that's how I would have designed it <g>) but don't know for sure. Will let you
know next week.
So the plan here is to use both calendars this year. DS has asked for
his at breakfast and the Nutcracker reading each evening, to give him
something to look foward to at both ends of every day. :)
Or, I wonder if anyone has ever tried Advent cookies? Bake a different
kind every day, with the children helping all along and then setting out the
plate each afternoon to be eaten before the next day? You could put peppermint
chips in sugar cookies the first day, then use green food coloring, etc and
lead up to shape cookies and sprinkles as the Big Day nears. Hmm -- JJ
listdiva@... writes:
a little mini-celebration every day starting December 1. (This year our
8-year-old is actually counting the days to December First on the kitchen calendar,
rather than to Christmas Day! Really!)
We've always had a Nutcracker Calendar, a stand-up board with tiny
illustrated books each telling a few lines of the ballet story. Dad puts on his
velvet Santa hat and we all sit together as the children produce the book of
the evening for reading aloud. Then the youngest child present at the reading
gets to choose a spot on the tree to hang the book (there's a little gold cord
on each one.) The story builds and the tree fills up until Christmas Eve, when
the tall SugarPlum Fairy book is read by firelight. During the day, children
often remove the books from the tree to play with, read and replace (we also
put all their real Christmas books away with the decorations each year, and set
them out under the tree as colorful "atmosphere." They get enjoyed a LOT this
way!)
And the spot under the tree doesn't seem bereft even the very first day we
put it up.
This year, I guess tradition will be flexing a bit. Our son found his
own Advent calendar at a bookstore. That's why he's counting down the days.
It's a big Lego box with 24 little compartments, and inside each one (it seems -
we haven't reached Dec 1 yet to see) are a few Lego parts that can be built
into a tiny Lego Santa or sled or evergreen or other Christmas character or
object. I think as the month goes on, they can be played with and recombined
(that's how I would have designed it <g>) but don't know for sure. Will let you
know next week.
So the plan here is to use both calendars this year. DS has asked for
his at breakfast and the Nutcracker reading each evening, to give him
something to look foward to at both ends of every day. :)
Or, I wonder if anyone has ever tried Advent cookies? Bake a different
kind every day, with the children helping all along and then setting out the
plate each afternoon to be eaten before the next day? You could put peppermint
chips in sugar cookies the first day, then use green food coloring, etc and
lead up to shape cookies and sprinkles as the Big Day nears. Hmm -- JJ
listdiva@... writes:
> On Wednesday, November 26, 2003, at 08:43 PM, Ren wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > Maybe put out a dollar store goody every few days that they can open,
> > to make it easier to wait. I think each family can do have their own
> > unique ways of celebrating, and if opening the gifts all month works
> > for you, great! But you're saying it won't make them happy, and yet
> > you don't seem to want advice to the contrary.
>
> i put candy, cookies little toys like hot wheel cars or mini puzzles. i
> hang everything from the three and kind of hide it. that really
> maintains the excitement but, ironically, takes the focus off what they
> get in the sense that, if they do not get the X Y or Z toy they were
> expecting, at least they got a lot of loot and treats throughout the
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/26/03 8:50:00 PM, starsuncloud@... writes:
<< So understand enough about child development to realize they don't have
the self control of an adult and keep things put away.
Maybe put out a dollar store goody every few days that they can open, to make
it easier to wait. >>
Aha!
"Advent calendars."
There are people who do advent calendars with a clue to where a real gift is.
I can be really small, or a Christmas tree ornament, or a promise of lunch
at McD or a hike to find pine cones, but that way they could have a count-down,
have more gifts, and not screw up Christmas.
I talked to Marty about the original question last night. Marty and I have
been having good little exchanges about what he perceives is going on, since I
didn't talk TO my kids about what my theory was so much as I just lived it.
He heard things at the conference in August he hadn't heard before, and said
he thinks all unschooled kids should go to some conferences before they
homeschool their own kids (that's not exactly what he said, but I don't remember what
he said--it was something about not understanding so much of the reasoning
behind how we lived until he heard me explaining it to other people).
So Marty said this: "I think it's about teaching your kids morals."
That wasn't the answer I expected, and I said "You think it's about morality?
Why?"
He said they need to learn right and wrong.
I talked about people's plans and feelings and he agreed. So what for me was
seeming like courtesy, he upgraded to morality.
Years back my kids used to ask to open a gift early and we'd do that
Christmas eve, but they disappointed themselves a few times and decided against it
pretty easily on their own, as a group.
I agree with the idea that the gifts aren't given until the gift-opening
moment. I also think they're part of the decor, not just at Christmas, but at
weddings (when they're displayed in all their silvery paper) and birthdays (the
cake is in one place, the gifts are in another place).
I agree that the traditional ceremony is primary, too.
Thanksgiving's a good day to give an example. If there's a lot of food being
made, people COULD just eat all day, but then there's no culminating feast to
sit down to. It spoils the tradition. I don't think there's any reason to
starve kids way past their regular mealtime, either. It's a day of naturally
occuring celery sticks, at least! <g>
Sometimes something is made just for the family. A tray of brownies might be
made because someone wanted brownies. But it's worth asking before getting
into them, because they might have been made a a gift or for a potluck. My
kids always ask about trays of food they see being prepared. When they were
younger, they were more likely to pass through and know what the plan was, but
now that they're in and out more they'll ask.
I have another couple of things to say, but I want to read other people's
comments first. I went to bed last night without getting back online. Kirby
and his friends were doing computer stuff and I let them have uninterrupted
whatever-they-were-doing.
Sandra
<< So understand enough about child development to realize they don't have
the self control of an adult and keep things put away.
Maybe put out a dollar store goody every few days that they can open, to make
it easier to wait. >>
Aha!
"Advent calendars."
There are people who do advent calendars with a clue to where a real gift is.
I can be really small, or a Christmas tree ornament, or a promise of lunch
at McD or a hike to find pine cones, but that way they could have a count-down,
have more gifts, and not screw up Christmas.
I talked to Marty about the original question last night. Marty and I have
been having good little exchanges about what he perceives is going on, since I
didn't talk TO my kids about what my theory was so much as I just lived it.
He heard things at the conference in August he hadn't heard before, and said
he thinks all unschooled kids should go to some conferences before they
homeschool their own kids (that's not exactly what he said, but I don't remember what
he said--it was something about not understanding so much of the reasoning
behind how we lived until he heard me explaining it to other people).
So Marty said this: "I think it's about teaching your kids morals."
That wasn't the answer I expected, and I said "You think it's about morality?
Why?"
He said they need to learn right and wrong.
I talked about people's plans and feelings and he agreed. So what for me was
seeming like courtesy, he upgraded to morality.
Years back my kids used to ask to open a gift early and we'd do that
Christmas eve, but they disappointed themselves a few times and decided against it
pretty easily on their own, as a group.
I agree with the idea that the gifts aren't given until the gift-opening
moment. I also think they're part of the decor, not just at Christmas, but at
weddings (when they're displayed in all their silvery paper) and birthdays (the
cake is in one place, the gifts are in another place).
I agree that the traditional ceremony is primary, too.
Thanksgiving's a good day to give an example. If there's a lot of food being
made, people COULD just eat all day, but then there's no culminating feast to
sit down to. It spoils the tradition. I don't think there's any reason to
starve kids way past their regular mealtime, either. It's a day of naturally
occuring celery sticks, at least! <g>
Sometimes something is made just for the family. A tray of brownies might be
made because someone wanted brownies. But it's worth asking before getting
into them, because they might have been made a a gift or for a potluck. My
kids always ask about trays of food they see being prepared. When they were
younger, they were more likely to pass through and know what the plan was, but
now that they're in and out more they'll ask.
I have another couple of things to say, but I want to read other people's
comments first. I went to bed last night without getting back online. Kirby
and his friends were doing computer stuff and I let them have uninterrupted
whatever-they-were-doing.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/27/03 6:13:03 AM, jrossedd@... writes:
<< Bake a different
kind every day, with the children helping all along and then setting out the
plate each afternoon to be eaten before the next day? >>
My kids don't eat that many cookies.
You'd be making a requirement to eat cookies ceremoniously! <g>
Sandra
<< Bake a different
kind every day, with the children helping all along and then setting out the
plate each afternoon to be eaten before the next day? >>
My kids don't eat that many cookies.
You'd be making a requirement to eat cookies ceremoniously! <g>
Sandra