Kelly Lenhart

>(Talk about tantrums, my MOM used to have some!)

Uhm, this is me, sad to say. The only upside being that I'm starting to
recognize it and acknowledge to my family that it's my issue and not theirs.

We are having some landlord issues and needed to crisis clean day before
yesterday. I was giving my seven year old orders and explaining how
important it was.

"This is not one of Mom's crazy bits! I swear, this time it's real." Funny
in retrospect, but ugh.

But I'm getting better!

Kelly

Dawn Adams

>But I'm getting better!
>
>Kelly

I'm with you Kelly! I throw tantrums too. I know the lingo of positive discipline and respect for kids and manage to practice it much of the time but my mom planted that martyr seed deep (And I nurtured it, can't blame her completely). The one that tells me I never have a free moment, my husband never helps, the kids don't respect me. That the world revolves around me and is out to get me. Ugh.
I raged at my daughter last night and you know what the worst thing is, the thing that made me really work at correcting this? I didn't feel bad about it. Honestly it feels good to lash out at the kids. I hear other moms talk about how bad they feel right after they've spanked their kids and I don't relate. It's in moments of reflection, like on this list that I hate what I've down. Actually, I guess I do feel guilt, it's just slow to come. I could see myself becoming an abuser (or staying one, I was not as bad with my rage as some parents I knew but I don't think it takes much to mark a child) though and so I turned to attachment parenting (thank God for breastfeeding, I credit a lot of my good parenting to that experience), positive discipline and now unschooling.
Anyhow...not sure why I made this long confession. I think in part because I'd been talking about non-spanking and such and feeling a bit like a fraud because it's been such a struggle to stop. And all you cool, nifty parents who seem to have your acts together (I know it just seems that way ;) ) and here I am trying to tread water at times. But thanks, because I'm learning alot here.
I love this list.

Dawn (Rambling Nonsensical Confessions-R-Us Inc.)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85

"I know the lingo of positive discipline and respect for kids and
manage to practice it much of the time but my mom planted that martyr
seed deep (And I nurtured it, can't blame her completely). The one
that tells me I never have a free moment, my husband never helps, the
kids don't respect me. That the world revolves around me and is out
to get me. Ugh."

I know that "never have a free moment" feeling. Lately I've been
trying to remember that when I'm with my kids it really is *my*
moment too. It's easy for me to think, "As soon as I'm finished
doing THEIR thing with them, I'll get back to doing MY thing". I'm
trying not to differentiate between my moments and their moments so
much, so I keep reminding myself that when I'm doing something with
them, it is something that I'm doing for them AND for me. I've
always wanted to have kids and I've been blessed with three of them,
so when I'm doing stuff with or for them, I'm really doing what I've
always wanted to do.

I've been saying (to myself) stuff like, "I GET to go play a game
with him now" or "I GET to go make him lunch" or "I GET to organize
their toys now".

Sheila

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/23/03 11:26:52 PM, sheran@... writes:

<< I'm

trying not to differentiate between my moments and their moments so

much, so I keep reminding myself that when I'm doing something with

them, it is something that I'm doing for them AND for me. >>

Sheila, I really like that point.

I remember nudging myself to think that way too, just a few years ago (after
we moved, so within the past six years). Instead of "Not MARTY again,
Marty's hogging all the atmosphere" thoughts, it helped me to think "Marty is SO
cool, and I'm glad he's here instead of at school, and I'm glad he likes me
enough to share his stories with me." (or show me his stuff or ask me for help or
whatever it was)

Nowadays I'm impatient with Holly sometimes, but I remind myself that she's
needy in ways I miss Kirby and Marty being, so I take a deep breath and give
her enough attention for all three of them.

Maybe that's one reason youngest kids get so much more attention. (Plus the
parents are older and slower. <g>)

Sandra

Heidi

The other day on the phone, when I was in a stinky mood, my mom
said "well, get yourself out of your bad mood. You need to be sending
those kids to school so you have more daytime hours to yourself."

Hello? It's hanging with my kids that I LIKE about my daytime hours.
My crankiness that day came from a sink full of dishes AGAIN, and me
just coming home from running errands and faced with all these
FREAKING dirty dishes!!! arghhh...not having my kids around
ferpetesakes.

I've tantrumed a couple of times, way back when. My poor oldest kid.
His dad and I divorced when he was six months old, and I had no self-
control. When the stress got too high, BOOM, I'd blow my top. But
haven't freaked out AT THE KIDS in ages. I broke a wooden cutting
board by slamming it down on the counter top, when I couldn't find my
kitchen shears (they'd been borrowed and not returned) but the kids
weren't here to witness that nonsense. Thank God.

I wonder, in this thread about tantruming, either ourselves or our
parents...is alcoholism or drug use part of these lives? My dad was
the "town drunk" as I was growing up and I know my mom's stress had
its roots in that.


--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/23/03 11:26:52 PM, sheran@p... writes:
>
> << I'm
>
> trying not to differentiate between my moments and their moments so
>
> much, so I keep reminding myself that when I'm doing something with
>
> them, it is something that I'm doing for them AND for me. >>
>
> Sheila, I really like that point.
>
> I remember nudging myself to think that way too, just a few years
ago (after
> we moved, so within the past six years). Instead of "Not MARTY
again,
> Marty's hogging all the atmosphere" thoughts, it helped me to
think "Marty is SO
> cool, and I'm glad he's here instead of at school, and I'm glad he
likes me
> enough to share his stories with me." (or show me his stuff or ask
me for help or
> whatever it was)
>
> Nowadays I'm impatient with Holly sometimes, but I remind myself
that she's
> needy in ways I miss Kirby and Marty being, so I take a deep breath
and give
> her enough attention for all three of them.
>
> Maybe that's one reason youngest kids get so much more attention.
(Plus the
> parents are older and slower. <g>)
>
> Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/24/03 6:20:10 AM, bunsofaluminum60@... writes:

<< I wonder, in this thread about tantruming, either ourselves or our

parents...is alcoholism or drug use part of these lives? My dad was

the "town drunk" as I was growing up and I know my mom's stress had

its roots in that. >>

My mom was an alcoholic, and I definitely had the adult-child-of traits,
though I'm not an alcoholic, and I rarely ever drink. Before Kirby was born, two
friends of mine had me where I couldn't get away (the first of my two broken
legs, much worse than the recent one, and I was on a kind of traction frame
and they had come to take care of me against my WAILING objections while Keith
drove 200 miles for a job interview), and they both also being adult children
of alcoholics, brought me literature, and when I could get up and into a car,
one of them took me to meetings.

I went to meetings for four years. When the meeting dissolved, Marty was
about six months old, and I was MUCH much better.

I remember the first time I didn't have a tantrum at all, and calmly dealt
with something that before I would have pulled a Donald Duck about:

I was late to be somewhere, and had given Kirby a bath in a baby bathtub on
the kitchen table. He was clean and dressed and ready to go, and I picked the
bathtub up to turn and pour the water in the kitchen sink, ONE step away, and
it bent and the water went ALL over the floor.

I just looked at it, and thought "Well the floor needed mopping anyway,"
threw my boxful of rags on top of it, sopped up the worst part, put the rags in
the bathtub, and went where I needed to go, without so much as saying "shit" or
whimpering.

And it felt pretty good. Though I was 32 or 33, I felt like a mature
grownup person instead of a miserable victim.

Kirby was saved most of my rage-life. Keith had a few years of it before we
had kids, so he KNOWS I'm better and he seems to appreciate it.

Sandra

[email protected]

<<<<bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
The other day on the phone, when I was in a stinky mood, my mom
said "well, get yourself out of your bad mood. You need to be sending
those kids to school so you have more daytime hours to yourself.">>>
************************************************************************

I herd the same the past couple of weeks. I am 17 weeks pregnant now and have
not been feeling well. It was suggested that I was stressing that I had a
baby on the way and worried that I couldn't handle all four at home. Wrong!
Turns out my ill feelings and easy to get worked up was part of the pregnancy but
also a possible heart condition that up set me the more I got upset.

Hard to explain but when something adds a little stress or physical energy I
have been getting chest pressure, burning, labored breathing, numb arms and
left arm ache. I ended up being admitted in the hospital last week but my
family still says awe its just panic attacks or anxiety and I should send the kids
to school!

I told them my cholesterol and trigliserides (sp) are high and I have been
told I may have a minor block in my Subclaven but they just dont listen. Its
just sad... My Mom isn't even talking to me because her husband an Xray tech says
there is nothing wrong with me.
Someday I will accept my Mother for who she is but for now it is hard to see
how she can be so rotten. She wont even tell me our family medical history.
Sorry this is off topic but brought it to mind this am. Laura


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelly Lenhart

I wonder, in this thread about tantruming, either ourselves or our
parents...is alcoholism or drug use part of these lives? My dad was
the "town drunk" as I was growing up and I know my mom's stress had
its roots in that.

(((((((((((((((((((

I don't have that, but I did have divorce at age 10. Er, or my parents
divorced when I was 10. However you are supposed to say that.

Kelly

Heidi

I've been to ACOA meetings a couple different times in my life, and
always came away from them knowing how much worse my life could have
been. My dad was a drunk (he is alive still, but doesn't drink any
more) but a happy drunk, a fall-down-on-the-sidewalk-outside-the-
house drunk, but not violent. Never missed a day's work. He'd come
home plastered, then get up the next morning and go to work. We lived
in a nicer neighborhood, not a dive, etc.

When I would go to ACOA meetings, I'd hear horror stories, like being
locked in the closet or beat with a belt, and say to myself "What am
I DOING here? I need to get OVER it. My life wasn't so bad."

Maybe the worst things had to do with unpredictability, more than
violence. Is dad coming home drunk or sober tonight? Is mom going to
freak out or give him the cold shoulder, this time? Is dad going to
be lovey-dovey and all free with his emotions, or ignore us and turn
on the TV, or get ticked at mom for not being a House Keeper?

Strange how a moderately unpleasant upbringing could produce such
inner angst in me...

well, it's changing. It started changing long before I ever heard of
unschooling, but the list here helps me day to day, and I'm confident
my kids have it better than I had it, and I pray that they improve
upon my methods for their kids.

blessings, HeidiC




> I went to meetings for four years. When the meeting dissolved,
Marty was
> about six months old, and I was MUCH much better.
>

Dawn Adams

Heidi writes;
>I wonder, in this thread about tantruming, either ourselves or our
>parents...is alcoholism or drug use part of these lives? My dad was
>the "town drunk" as I was growing up and I know my mom's stress had
>its roots in that.

Neither in my family. I think my mom was just resentful and angry. She has always told me about the opportunities she's missed in life. She was (and is) very much the classic martyr where the house would be clean if not for us, things would run smoothly if not for us and when things work it's only because she's managed to pull it together. At the same time of course she was wonderful and layed the foundations for unschooling in me (she just told me she was a fan of John Holts from waaay back). She recognizes much of what she did in the past that was wrong but does little to change it now. I think too she doesn't really trust us to make decisions, as she's always told us what to do. I was doing laundry at her house the other day, cleaned the lint trap and left the lint on a shelf. There's no garbage in that room so I'd planned to take it up when I was done all my laundry. 20 mins later she was ranting about the lint and how no one ever puts it in the garbage. I don't think it would occur to her to take a moment and trust that I would clean it up when I was done.
So my battles have been to take that moment when somethings not done and trust that it will be. Also, to make housework a joy in this house (It's been shocking to realize I enjoy much of it) and not a burden to resent. I had to realize that when I create burdens for myself its the family that has to bear the weight of it.
So no drugs or drinking but...I think my mother's addiction was her rage. And I think I caught it, I'm by no means over it but I'm much, much better than I was even a year ago. And it is an addiction, it feels good and lets you selfishly wallow in self pity.

Dawn (in Soviet Canuckistan)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elizabeth Roberts

Well not of alcohol or drugs in my case but just a totally domineering authoritarian nothing you do is right mother. She's still that way.

Elizabeth in MA



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[email protected]

Mom was a clean-aholic. Child of an abusive alcoholic mother and grandmother.
She complained about us helping but when we tried she would go behind us and
clean again. Later as I got older I would watch her go after my little sister
if she was mad at me or my step father in a rage and sling her around the
room. It was scary and she made it like punishment to the person who complained.

My Dad was an alcoholic and physically abusive to me and sexually to my Mom.
He cheated on her and they divorced when I was 9. I remember my mom having a
miscarriage right in front of us after my dad walked out that day. I was sad
that he left even though he only beat me and put me in the hospital for
dehydration and bowel blockage due to emotional stress.

If I hadn't joined the Marines I would prob not have done as well as I have.
I am now closer to my Dad as my Mom would rather gossip about me than get to
know me for who I am. Just this weekend I was told that she was complaining
about me and my so-called heart concern. She is online everyday and never says
hello. She calls when she needs something that's all. I am the closest of her
children being 20 min away from her and she hasn't come to my home in a year.

When she was married in September (the weekend of my sons birthday) I sewed
her purse, helped set up the hall and was here at her disposal when she needed
to call. I feel like a doormat.
Maybe am grumpy today I dont know....... I know I need to walk away for a
while for my own health and my families but It is so hard to see such treatment
and not understand it.

Laura
****************************************
Heidi writes;
>I wonder, in this thread about tantruming, either ourselves or our
>parents...is alcoholism or drug use part of these lives? My dad was
>the "town drunk" as I was growing up and I know my mom's stress had
>its roots in that.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

>I think too she doesn't really trust us to make decisions, as she's
>always told us what to do.


My mom does a lot of that, too...and I do it "Why doesn't ANYone EVER
put ANYthing aWAY around here?"

But my mom got in the habit of saying "What's wrong with you?" about
things. Like I'd leave my drinking glass on the (very cluttered
already) counter top and she'd say "What's WRONG with you? You never
put anything away" Hearing that every day, you wonder what really IS
wrong with you...

that, plus giving a person a job to do, then taking it away and doing
it herself...with a little sigh of exasperation...when you weren't
doing it to her satisfaction; these are not violent things, but are
quite damaging. At age 16, I believed that I was incapable of doing
anything right.

Like Sandra, part of what I "got" from her, was what not to do. I
still am "becoming my mother" in many ways, but my brother and sister
don't hesitate to say "Okay, SHEEEEELA" (my mom's name) and I chill.
LOL ANYthing but become my MOTHER!

I've never gotten on any of my kids' about overeating. I look at my
15 year old, with her cute, curvaceous figure, and realize when I was
that size and that weight, my mom said it every day "You need to lose
some weight"

Never said "What is WRONG with you?"

Never taken a job away from any kid, once they started it. Might not
ASK them, if I want it done quickly, mind you...but once they're
rolling along, using whatever means...I bite my tongue.

Never expected them to clean up when I'm not...and so forth.




> So my battles have been to take that moment when somethings
not done and trust that it will be. Also, to make housework a joy in
this house (It's been shocking to realize I enjoy much of it) and not
a burden to resent. I had to realize that when I create burdens for
myself its the family that has to bear the weight of it.

You know, one of the ironic things about my faith (Christian) is that
I am called to be a servant. It is a main precept of Christianity,
and yet, when the opportunity arises in the form of folding laundry
or sweeping the floor...grouse, grumble, martyrdom...I have to keep
it in the front of my mind. I can do it with joy, or with resentment.
Choose joy!

> Dawn (in Soviet Canuckistan)

are you REALLY in Soviet Canuckistan??? how? why? I mean...if you
want to...I'd love to hear about it...

blessings, HeidiC

Deborah Lewis

***My crankiness that day came from a sink full of dishes AGAIN, and me
just coming home from running errands and faced with all these
FREAKING dirty dishes!!! ***


Heidi, can you use paper plates on days you know are going to be hectic.
Plastic disposable bowls for cereal in the morning, paper plates for
lunch and snacks, etc.

Deb L

Dawn Adams

> Dawn (in Soviet Canuckistan)

are you REALLY in Soviet Canuckistan??? how? why? I mean...if you
want to...I'd love to hear about it...

blessings, HeidiC

LOL Heidi, Yup I am...according to Pat Buchanan. That's what he called Canada after we decided to sit out the war on Iraq. I like it so I throw it around occasionally. ;)

But boy, does your mom ever sound like mine. As I said, my mom has her wonderful side to but there's a big blind spot when it comes to some of her parenting...And her continued treatment of us at times. We can be wonderfully close and great friends at times but when shes in a sour mood everyone is the enemy and everyone suffers.
I also know what you mean about taking jobs away. Gosh, why did mom ever expect us to pitch in when what we did was never good enough? And the weight...except she never commented on our weight but I always heard about how heavy SHE was (and how stupid on occasion) and her dialogue to herself became how I thought I should talk to myself at times. there's also the fact that, "Have you lost weight?" is always to be interpretted as, "you look really good." I hate that compliment. Oh well, I have to remember that as I dig these old complaints up I have to file them away under "change this" instead of just stewing over them. :)

Dawn (who thinks Pat Buchanan is a funny old fart)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/24/03 7:02:48 AM, HMSL2@... writes:

<< She wont even tell me our family medical history. >>

Maybe she's just embarrassed because she doesn't know.
My own family history is full of bunk, so I hesitate to share either version
one or version two of granny. She did have diabetes and went blind; autopsy
says not diabetes (says my mom, who isn't a reliable reporter). So I say
"maybe diabetes, heard not."

Sandra

Betsy

**Hard to explain but when something adds a little stress or physical
energy I
have been getting chest pressure, burning, labored breathing, numb arms and
left arm ache. I ended up being admitted in the hospital last week but my
family still says awe its just panic attacks or anxiety and I should
send the kids
to school!

I told them my cholesterol and trigliserides (sp) are high and I have been
told I may have a minor block in my Subclaven but they just dont listen.
Its
just sad... My Mom isn't even talking to me because her husband an Xray
tech says
there is nothing wrong with me.**


Heart attacks and other heart problems are underdiagnosed in women
because the symptoms are different from what the average man has. (Most
of us know that, and I would hope anyone who works in a hospital, even
an X-ray tech would know that.) Being dismissive of the symptoms you
described is dangerous. Speak up for yourself and don't let the
naysayers dominate your thinking, ok?

Grrrrr. Why is this man being so dismissive? Is he afraid "his" wife
is going to miss cooking him a meal if she takes the time to do
something helpful for you?

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/24/2003 10:36:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:

> So my battles have been to take that moment when somethings
> not done and trust that it will be. Also, to make housework a joy in
> this house (It's been shocking to realize I enjoy much of it) and not
> a burden to resent. I had to realize that when I create burdens for
> myself its the family that has to bear the weight of it.
>
At my house, my husband STILL sometimes likes to act like his parents. He's
accepted finally that Cait will never go to high school and that "having fun"
all day or doing "absolutely nothing" is OK (or else he's just stopped asking
about it).

BUT and isn't there always a BUT... he is forever more saying "John take out
the garbage". Which promptly gets ignored or John will answer him and say OK,
I will, but never does. He's asked me many times how the garbage gets
emptied when he's not here. I've told him repeatedly that because it is no one in
particulars job, someone just does it, and most likely it is JOHN. He's
exasperated by that fact and once even accused me of having some magical power over
the children that he does not possess. Once he said I was doing "IT" to make
him seem like he had no control in the house.

Now, I think he is finally seeing that no one, including children like to be
told what to do and when. That pitching in with no expectations gets the most
help if you really need it.

Life is so much more pleasant without the demands and angry voices, for
EVERYONE, especially the children.

It helped to point out to him that if he comes home opens the pantry and sees
a full trash can and it's important to HIM that it go out that very minute,
well maybe HE should be the one to go ahead and do it, he didn't like being
TOLD for HIM to do it, even though he was the one standing over it yelling about
it. It didn't take long for him to come around after I started using that
tactic. Once it's pointed out how silly it seems to call for someone to leave
whatever THEY are doing to come take care of a problem you could handle in maybe
two minutes... then it made sense to him.

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>
> So no drugs or drinking but...I think my mother's addiction was her
> rage. And I think I caught it, I'm by no means over it but I'm much, much
> better than I was even a year ago. And it is an addiction, it feels good
> and lets you selfishly wallow in self pity.

Interesting thought. I've had trouble with my temper all my life, though
it's settled down *considerably* over the years. But yes, at the moment,
rage can feel very good. So can self-pity. I'm going to think some more on
that one. Thanks.
Tia (on the other edge of Soviet Canuckistan)

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/24/03 8:34:54 AM, HMSL2@... writes:

<< I am the closest of her
children being 20 min away from her and she hasn't come to my home in a year.
>>

My mom was at my house one single time (my new house). She lived with us for
a year at the old house when Kirby was a baby, and then found her a nearby
apartment so she could walk to AA meetings. She went nine years sober, and
started drinking again because she just decided she had more fun drinking, and her
#3 child was grown then.

I wasn't comfortable having her here, and she wasn't comfortable being here.
I didn't really want her around my kids much, and that was fine with her.
She was always nervous around my kids. My uncle told me she was nervous around
me and Irene (three years younger) too, like she didn't have any idea what to
do. Y'know how some cats just aren't good moms to their kittens? I think
it was just that.

It's good to be able to do things better, though, isn't?

I'm sorry, Laura, for the horrible things you experienced and witnessed.
I'm glad you're putting energy into giving your kids a lot of joy.

Sandra

Elizabeth Roberts

Maybe to clarify: my parents did divorce when I was very young. I lived with my mother, and one older and one younger brother. The oldest and I have never gotten along. I was a punching bag to him and someone to blame for all his troubles when he wasn't completely ignoring me. My younger brother and I are closer, but not as close since I left home.

Elizabeth in MA

Elizabeth Roberts <mamabethuscg@...> wrote:



Well not of alcohol or drugs in my case but just a totally domineering authoritarian nothing you do is right mother. She's still that way.

Elizabeth in MA



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[email protected]

In a message dated 11/24/2003 9:34:59 AM Central Standard Time, HMSL2@...
writes:


> Just this weekend I was told that she was complaining
> about me and my so-called heart concern.

~~~

Whoever told you that is not your friend.

What you wrote reminds me of something. My brother made a snide comment
about me to my mother once, and instead of just glossing over it for my sake, my
mother passed the comment on to me like she was enjoying the joke.

That is not good motherly behavior. My mom's an alcoholic, too. Our
relationship is relatively fine, but I try to look at some of her comments and
actions in the broad daylight, instead of cloaked in the dynamics of my childhood.

When I speak to one grown son about the other, it is always with the intent
of fostering understanding and relationship between them, not helping spread
hurt feelings around. (They get along pretty well, considering the rough time
the younger one is having with being 19 right now.) I wish my mother would do
the same.

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

Yeah, if I'd said "use paper plates!" before going errand-running,
it would have been a different story...just have to remember to do
that.

thanks for the idea, Deb


--- In [email protected], Deborah Lewis
<ddzimlew@j...> wrote:
> ***My crankiness that day came from a sink full of dishes AGAIN,
and me
> just coming home from running errands and faced with all these
> FREAKING dirty dishes!!! ***
>
>
> Heidi, can you use paper plates on days you know are going to be
hectic.
> Plastic disposable bowls for cereal in the morning, paper plates
for
> lunch and snacks, etc.
>
> Deb L

Heidi

Oh no! LOL roflol you would NOT believe what was going through my
head when I read "canuckistan??? isn't canuck something from the
eskimos or something? Well, I wonder if it's a throwback to the
Bering Land Bridge, and the language has some things in common
still...and I wonder where it could be, that soviet rule still
exists" L all this analysis, and it was a PLAY ON WORDS! oh, sheesh.
Blonde moment!

ha! gotta laugh at myself once in awhile.

as for remembering the parenting I've experienced, on the childhood
end of things, I'm with you: instead of stewing, learn and move on.

blessings, HeidiC
--- In [email protected], "Dawn Adams"
<Wishbone@s...> wrote:
>
>
> > Dawn (in Soviet Canuckistan)
>
> are you REALLY in Soviet Canuckistan??? how? why? I mean...if
you
> want to...I'd love to hear about it...
>
> blessings, HeidiC
>
> LOL Heidi, Yup I am...according to Pat Buchanan. That's what he
called Canada after we decided to sit out the war on Iraq. I like it
so I throw it around occasionally. ;)
>
> But boy, does your mom ever sound like mine. As I said, my mom
has her wonderful side to but there's a big blind spot when it comes
to some of her parenting...And her continued treatment of us at
times. We can be wonderfully close and great friends at times but
when shes in a sour mood everyone is the enemy and everyone suffers.
> I also know what you mean about taking jobs away. Gosh, why
did mom ever expect us to pitch in when what we did was never good
enough? And the weight...except she never commented on our weight
but I always heard about how heavy SHE was (and how stupid on
occasion) and her dialogue to herself became how I thought I should
talk to myself at times. there's also the fact that, "Have you lost
weight?" is always to be interpretted as, "you look really good." I
hate that compliment. Oh well, I have to remember that as I dig
these old complaints up I have to file them away under "change this"
instead of just stewing over them. :)
>
> Dawn (who thinks Pat Buchanan is a funny old fart)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dawn Adams

Heidi admits;

>Oh no! LOL roflol you would NOT believe what was going through my
>head when I read "canuckistan??? isn't canuck something from the
>eskimos or something? Well, I wonder if it's a throwback to the
>Bering Land Bridge, and the language has some things in common
>still...and I wonder where it could be, that soviet rule still
>exists" L all this analysis, and it was a PLAY ON WORDS! oh, sheesh.
>Blonde moment!
>
?ha! gotta laugh at myself once in awhile.

LOL! OKAY...now that is something I relate too. We're not dim, we just overthink things. ;)

Dawn (still giggling)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/24/03 1:50:25 PM, tuckervill2@... writes:

<< > Just this weekend I was told that she was complaining
> about me and my so-called heart concern.

~~~

<<Whoever told you that is not your friend. >>


Yes. I wish nobody had ever told me anything my mom had said behind my back.
The things she said to me, and muttered in my hearing were quite sufficient
to spoil trust and love.

<rant>

Her best friend told me something rude my mom had said about me two days
before she died. I did her a GIGANTIC friggin' favor, and chose NOT to tell her
my mom said she only helped her because she wanted her money (all $1100 a month
or whatever of SS and veteran's survivor, after paying for my mom's rent,
phone, beer, cigarettes, groceries and gambling when she was still
casino-mobile), and my mom complained that Angie (who has done her laundry and driven her
around and done her errands for three or four years) took the pork out of the
beans I had put in the crockpot I bought for my mom, and then put beans in JUST
the way my mom likes them.

Let Angie have the stupid boiled pork fat. Bad enough *I* had to hear about
it without me telling Angie.

</rant>

Sandra

I told Angie nothing. I thanked her

Tia Leschke

>
>
>BUT and isn't there always a BUT... he is forever more saying "John take out
>the garbage". Which promptly gets ignored or John will answer him and say
>OK,
>I will, but never does. He's asked me many times how the garbage gets
>emptied when he's not here. I've told him repeatedly that because it is
>no one in
>particulars job, someone just does it, and most likely it is JOHN. He's
>exasperated by that fact and once even accused me of having some magical
>power over
>the children that he does not possess. Once he said I was doing "IT" to make
>him seem like he had no control in the house.

That magic power is spelled R.E.S.P.E.C.T.
<g>
Tia

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/24/2003 7:21:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< > Just this weekend I was told that she was complaining
> about me and my so-called heart concern.

~~~

<<Whoever told you that is not your friend. >>
********************************************************
It was actually my Aunt. She's also the one who told me last winter that she
couldn't openly speak to me as my Mom would take issue and she was trying to
maintain communication with her. This was after I took my younger sister in
after my Mom threw her out at 18. The mess just keeps continuing........
Last time I took my sis in she was 9 and my Mom had just gotten married to
husband number 3 and was drunk. I went and picked her up after I was called. I
was accused of kidnapping her by my Mom. Well, that's what she told everyone
but she never officially told the police (wonder why). Needless to say I had my
sister for the summer so she could get herself together or be free who knows?
Anyone who knows my Mom (not family) wouldn't believe she would be such a way.

My Mom has been telling stories about me since I was little. A friend of the
family who only speaks to me tells me she doesn't know how I am still
alive...... Guess there is more stuff I dont know but at this point I dont want to
know.

Whine over--I do apologize for my complaining today. I think my goal in life
is just to be loved. I work much to hard at that with my Mom sometimes.
Laura


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

<<Maybe she's just embarrassed because she doesn't know.
My own family history is full of bunk, so I hesitate to share either version
one or version two of granny. She did have diabetes and went blind; autopsy
says not diabetes (says my mom, who isn't a reliable reporter). So I say
"maybe diabetes, heard not."

Sandra>>
*************************************************************8
No, she knows. She knows it all. She was a CNA for a while and took care of
them both. She is just being impossible. When I was admitted last week she
didn't care. When my sister miscarried she didn't even call her.
Her new husband called me a hypocrite and a hypochondriac last week. He says
he works in the Xray department and only 10% have actual heart issues the
other 90 % are fakers. Though he has a many medical issues himself (he's maybe
50). Hmmm... I asked him last night if big differences in my right and left arms
was normal and he insisted i did my BP wrong. <sigh>

I see a doc when I have babies that's all. My Mom isn't calling because of
him. Give her a man and its all over. When she met my little sisters dad in the
80's she left us a note and told us to pack our bags that DCYS was coming. All
I did was baby-sit my little sister I was a good kid. Needless to say we ran
away for a week and that's when I was raped by my sisters (now known) sex
offending husband and later beaten by my dad. I was 13 I think. When she fails
she tosses her kids like trash.
I will never be like her that's an agreement my older sister and I made. So
far so good but I am defiantly wanting to understand her and have her
understand me.

As for the Doc's and dismissing women this is so true! If not for the
womansheart.org web site I would not be pushing them. Today I went to a cardiologist
and ended up with the one I insisted that I didn't want and he suggested that
I am panicking because I have a baby on the way. NOT!
He is putting an incident monitor on me but not till Monday? So when i
"feel" palpitations I am to push the button. I can deal with palpitations not left
arm pain and burning! That's ok I have a second opinion set up at the major
medical center they told me not to expect much from the docs here.

Laura


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

Just for the record, the bit here, accredited to me, isn't by me,
(bunsofaluminum60) though I agree with it, and replied elsewhere to
it. :)

blessings, HeidiC


--- In [email protected], rubyprincesstsg@a...
wrote:
> In a message dated 11/24/2003 10:36:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> bunsofaluminum60@h... writes:
>
> > So my battles have been to take that moment when somethings
> > not done and trust that it will be. Also, to make housework a joy
in
> > this house (It's been shocking to realize I enjoy much of it) and
not
> > a burden to resent. I had to realize that when I create burdens
for
> > myself its the family that has to bear the weight of it.
> >
> At my house, my husband STILL sometimes likes to act like his
parents. He's
> accepted finally that Cait will never go to high school and
that "having fun"
> all day or doing "absolutely nothing" is OK (or else he's just
stopped asking
> about it).
>
> BUT and isn't there always a BUT... he is forever more saying "John
take out
> the garbage". Which promptly gets ignored or John will answer him
and say OK,
> I will, but never does. He's asked me many times how the garbage
gets
> emptied when he's not here. I've told him repeatedly that because
it is no one in
> particulars job, someone just does it, and most likely it is JOHN.
He's
> exasperated by that fact and once even accused me of having some
magical power over
> the children that he does not possess. Once he said I was
doing "IT" to make
> him seem like he had no control in the house.
>
> Now, I think he is finally seeing that no one, including children
like to be
> told what to do and when. That pitching in with no expectations
gets the most
> help if you really need it.
>
> Life is so much more pleasant without the demands and angry voices,
for
> EVERYONE, especially the children.
>
> It helped to point out to him that if he comes home opens the
pantry and sees
> a full trash can and it's important to HIM that it go out that very
minute,
> well maybe HE should be the one to go ahead and do it, he didn't
like being
> TOLD for HIM to do it, even though he was the one standing over it
yelling about
> it. It didn't take long for him to come around after I started
using that
> tactic. Once it's pointed out how silly it seems to call for
someone to leave
> whatever THEY are doing to come take care of a problem you could
handle in maybe
> two minutes... then it made sense to him.
>
> glena
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]