unschooling equals no spanking?
Ren Allen
>For those of you who equate unschooling with no training I think youhave
>deluded yourselves.Of course you'd feel that way...you're not living with children that
have been
raised this way to see the fabulous results. I am.
And it depends on what you mean by "training"- a word I find insidious
btw. My children receive information about their behavior and how it
affects
others, they get a strong reaction if they try to harm anyone, but
not any kind
of physical punishment. I say "stop!" very loudly once in a while, to
prevent harm, but I've never seen how hurting another human being
helps them
not harm another human. Crazy.
I have four children, one of whom is incredibly intense (ask anyone
at the SC
conference about my Jalen). They are all very empathetic, kind,
loving and
gentle individuals overall. When something goes haywire, there is
ALWAYS an
underlying reason or something I could have done to prevent the
problem. I
think using any kind of violence against another human indicates a
willingness
to NOT think, to NOT try and do better than react and to NOT evolve.
Self defense is the only time I think violence is acceptable, and I
highly doubt
you're talking about feeling your life threatened by your child when
you defend
spanking.
Take some time to learn about the families here that DON'T hit their
children...ever. Find out what they use to help their children grow
and learn
and understand the world in which they were brought into. Find out
how
wonderful these children are (I've met many of them) before you go
flinging
your ignorance around for all to witness.
Ren
Robyn Coburn
I enjoyed meeting him immensely.
Robyn L. Coburn
<<I have four children, one of whom is incredibly intense (ask anyone
at the SC
conference about my Jalen).>>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
<<I have four children, one of whom is incredibly intense (ask anyone
at the SC
conference about my Jalen).>>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma2kids
<<I have four children, one of whom is incredibly intense (ask anyone
at the SC conference about my Jalen).>>
I'll never forget being at Kelly's pool, talking with you while Jalen
played in the water. I was nervous that it was a safety issue at
first, but you were so connected and tuned into that little boy. You
and he have an understanding and it's palpable. He stayed safe and
you stayed aware of him. He didn't need to test you by jumping into
deep water or scare you by going out too far. He knew you would take
him further in when he asked and you did. So when you asked him to
play on the steps while we talked, that tiny little non-spanked
beauty of a boy stayed and played and let us talk.
Life is good.
~Mary
at the SC conference about my Jalen).>>
>>> I enjoyed meeting him immensely. >>>Yes, isn't he your little one? What a sweetie. :o)
I'll never forget being at Kelly's pool, talking with you while Jalen
played in the water. I was nervous that it was a safety issue at
first, but you were so connected and tuned into that little boy. You
and he have an understanding and it's palpable. He stayed safe and
you stayed aware of him. He didn't need to test you by jumping into
deep water or scare you by going out too far. He knew you would take
him further in when he asked and you did. So when you asked him to
play on the steps while we talked, that tiny little non-spanked
beauty of a boy stayed and played and let us talk.
Life is good.
~Mary
Ren
>>> I enjoyed meeting him immensely. >>>Yes, isn't he your little one? What a sweetie. :o)
Awww..thanks guys. I think he's the most interesting, fun kid, but he really overwhelms some folks. It was really great being at the conference where all of the upsets got handled calmly and respectfully. Anyone that believes in spanking should really observe a conference with hundreds of non-spankers in action...it's truly heart warming.
I know one Dad that had been riding the fence over the unschooling issue told me personally that after seeing all the kids he was 100% convinced it was the lifestyle for his family!
The kids ARE different. They not only speak their minds openly, but they enjoy being around all ages. They aren't fearful if they make a mistake, and they don't flinch when an adult reaches for them. All signs of non-spanked children.
There was so much more good than I can even list here. I wish anyone out there that still thinks occasional spanks are ok would attend a conference and see what gentle parenting looks like, and the results it produces. Happy children, happy adults, all playing together and handling difficulties (which were rare) with such respectful calmness....it inspires me everytime I think about it.
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/23/03 10:31:49 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:
<< I think he's the most interesting, fun kid, but he really overwhelms some
folks. It was really great being at the conference where all of the upsets got
handled calmly and respectfully. >>
Is he the one that stopped crying just because I offered him a drink?
He's EASY! <g>
<<I know one Dad that had been riding the fence over the unschooling issue
told me personally that after seeing all the kids he was 100% convinced it was
the lifestyle for his family! >>
Several dads talked to me about Marty that weekend.
How could I help people see it if I didn't show them my kids sometimes?
I wish they could always be at every conference. Holly's been to three,
Marty's been to two, but I've been to 20 some, and I'm worth a LOT more when
there's a kid people can see (or even touch and tease and interrogate).
Sandra
<< I think he's the most interesting, fun kid, but he really overwhelms some
folks. It was really great being at the conference where all of the upsets got
handled calmly and respectfully. >>
Is he the one that stopped crying just because I offered him a drink?
He's EASY! <g>
<<I know one Dad that had been riding the fence over the unschooling issue
told me personally that after seeing all the kids he was 100% convinced it was
the lifestyle for his family! >>
Several dads talked to me about Marty that weekend.
How could I help people see it if I didn't show them my kids sometimes?
I wish they could always be at every conference. Holly's been to three,
Marty's been to two, but I've been to 20 some, and I'm worth a LOT more when
there's a kid people can see (or even touch and tease and interrogate).
Sandra
Mary
I belong to two local homeschooling groups. One group is quite active in
getting together often. We all get along well and always show up for stuff.
My kids have developed great friends with this group and so have I. We all
see each other twice a week and some of us 3 or even 4 times. We know each
other and our kids.
So last park day, while the kids were all building forts in the woods, one
mother just point blank asked me how I do it. How do I parent like I do with
never hitting the kids or disciplining them and turn out such great kids? To
which all the other mothers agreed how great and easy my kids are. Wow!! I
didn't see that one coming. There was a discussion weeks before with some
moms talking about hitting their kids. My horror wasn't able to be stifled
and the one mom remembered how I felt and that's why she brought up the
subject. That if I never hit, how do I get the kids to listen and behave?
(her words, not mine)
So we all talked a lot about parenting and what I do and what I did and what
I don't do. And all but one mom was actually seeing what I was talking
about. She was the one that originally asked the question. So when she asked
me specifics, I would give her ideas to which she responded that it would
never work for her girls and that she's tried everything and nothing works.
And although she wasn't seeing help, all the other moms did.
One mom relayed the story just recently where she makes her son clean up all
his toys before he goes to bed. He can chose to not clean them up and she
will, but she bags them all in the trash. When he went to bed crying saying
he didn't think he wanted to live there anymore, she put him outside in the
back yard and told him to go. When he said he would miss his Bionicles, she
bagged them up and handed them to him. He walked away crying and she called
him back.
I talked quite awhile with what I thought about that and other ways she
could have handled it and more than that, how the poor little boy must have
felt. How unsafe she made home for him and not at all unconditional. He's 6.
She emailed me later that night saying how the one mom asked for advice and
wouldn't even think of taking any of it. She also thanked me for what I said
and vowed to never get near that way of thinking and doing again. She felt
awful about what she did.
So I know I helped at least one little boy that day to have things be a
little better. I know this mom will try much harder. She always gets such a
kick out of my kids asking me for all kinds of things at the playground.
Like can I have a drink, some crackers, can I go play, can I play in the
woods, can I go over there? She said she has never heard me say no to them
about anything, yet they keep asking me politely to do things. I guess they
haven't made the switch yet from mom can I go play in the woods to mom I'm
going to go and play in the woods. I'm sure they will eventually. In the
meantime, it seems to some I have completely polite and kind children who
*must* have tons of rules to follow or else they wouldn't act like that.
To my group, they know better. They Joe and I with our kids both out and at
home. They know we don't have rules and consequences for not following them.
They know we have happy kids who are fun to be around. So maybe we're
helping more than just one little kid by just being around. I know a few
moms have eased way up on the "school" part of life. One mom is very excited
about unschooling and getting there. It feels good to make a difference.
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
getting together often. We all get along well and always show up for stuff.
My kids have developed great friends with this group and so have I. We all
see each other twice a week and some of us 3 or even 4 times. We know each
other and our kids.
So last park day, while the kids were all building forts in the woods, one
mother just point blank asked me how I do it. How do I parent like I do with
never hitting the kids or disciplining them and turn out such great kids? To
which all the other mothers agreed how great and easy my kids are. Wow!! I
didn't see that one coming. There was a discussion weeks before with some
moms talking about hitting their kids. My horror wasn't able to be stifled
and the one mom remembered how I felt and that's why she brought up the
subject. That if I never hit, how do I get the kids to listen and behave?
(her words, not mine)
So we all talked a lot about parenting and what I do and what I did and what
I don't do. And all but one mom was actually seeing what I was talking
about. She was the one that originally asked the question. So when she asked
me specifics, I would give her ideas to which she responded that it would
never work for her girls and that she's tried everything and nothing works.
And although she wasn't seeing help, all the other moms did.
One mom relayed the story just recently where she makes her son clean up all
his toys before he goes to bed. He can chose to not clean them up and she
will, but she bags them all in the trash. When he went to bed crying saying
he didn't think he wanted to live there anymore, she put him outside in the
back yard and told him to go. When he said he would miss his Bionicles, she
bagged them up and handed them to him. He walked away crying and she called
him back.
I talked quite awhile with what I thought about that and other ways she
could have handled it and more than that, how the poor little boy must have
felt. How unsafe she made home for him and not at all unconditional. He's 6.
She emailed me later that night saying how the one mom asked for advice and
wouldn't even think of taking any of it. She also thanked me for what I said
and vowed to never get near that way of thinking and doing again. She felt
awful about what she did.
So I know I helped at least one little boy that day to have things be a
little better. I know this mom will try much harder. She always gets such a
kick out of my kids asking me for all kinds of things at the playground.
Like can I have a drink, some crackers, can I go play, can I play in the
woods, can I go over there? She said she has never heard me say no to them
about anything, yet they keep asking me politely to do things. I guess they
haven't made the switch yet from mom can I go play in the woods to mom I'm
going to go and play in the woods. I'm sure they will eventually. In the
meantime, it seems to some I have completely polite and kind children who
*must* have tons of rules to follow or else they wouldn't act like that.
To my group, they know better. They Joe and I with our kids both out and at
home. They know we don't have rules and consequences for not following them.
They know we have happy kids who are fun to be around. So maybe we're
helping more than just one little kid by just being around. I know a few
moms have eased way up on the "school" part of life. One mom is very excited
about unschooling and getting there. It feels good to make a difference.
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/23/2003 12:09:14 PM Mountain Standard Time,
mummy124@... writes:
-=-it seems to some I have completely polite and kind children who
*must* have tons of rules to follow or else they wouldn't act like that.-=-
Some people heard this at the time, but when Marty graduated from the Junior
Police Academy ( a weeklong summer program Albuquerque does) one of his
instructors gushed about Marty and then said something like "You can always tell
when a kid comes from a home with lots of rules and discipline."
-=- I would give her ideas to which she responded that it would
never work for her girls and that she's tried everything and nothing works.
-=-
Swami Beyondananda says "nothing works," and in a case like this, she's tried
everythig except "nothing." Ned Flander's beatnik dad said to the child
psychologist when Ned was little, "I've tried nothing, and I'm all out of ideas"
or something like that. But Swami Beyondananda says "NOTHING will get your
kids to eat vegetables!" and so on.
And you know what? My kids eat vegetables. Kirby doesn't like spinach, but
it's not because we didn't try nothing! We never made him taste it. We
never once put it in front of him against his wishes.
The "nothing" we do really has a lot of elements, or a lot of decoration or
action or something but compared to traditional training methods, it's nothing.
Baffling yet true. <bwg>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mummy124@... writes:
-=-it seems to some I have completely polite and kind children who
*must* have tons of rules to follow or else they wouldn't act like that.-=-
Some people heard this at the time, but when Marty graduated from the Junior
Police Academy ( a weeklong summer program Albuquerque does) one of his
instructors gushed about Marty and then said something like "You can always tell
when a kid comes from a home with lots of rules and discipline."
-=- I would give her ideas to which she responded that it would
never work for her girls and that she's tried everything and nothing works.
-=-
Swami Beyondananda says "nothing works," and in a case like this, she's tried
everythig except "nothing." Ned Flander's beatnik dad said to the child
psychologist when Ned was little, "I've tried nothing, and I'm all out of ideas"
or something like that. But Swami Beyondananda says "NOTHING will get your
kids to eat vegetables!" and so on.
And you know what? My kids eat vegetables. Kirby doesn't like spinach, but
it's not because we didn't try nothing! We never made him taste it. We
never once put it in front of him against his wishes.
The "nothing" we do really has a lot of elements, or a lot of decoration or
action or something but compared to traditional training methods, it's nothing.
Baffling yet true. <bwg>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
C & J Hanson
Mary,
I loved your letter.
I, too, have had conversations like that with mothers.
My four kids (3 boys, ages 15-29) are wonderful. They are kind, loving and polite. I have never had 'rebellious teens". In fact I really enjoy my teens- good thing since I have had one in my house for 15 years!!!!!!!!!
I have never punished any of them in any way. I don't play that game. I treat them as I would treat any one else. I have never understood why people think kids need to be treated like animals (or worse).
If I am being spoken to in a rude way I just say "It hurts my feelings when you say that" or better yet make it a joke. My kids joke with each other about how I turn fighting in to opera by singing "Yes you did" or what ever in a loud operatic voice. Worked every time. Or I might say, "Wow, do I need to salute?" or I might just say "Sir, Yes, Sir" like I am in boot camp and then hug them. Joking works just as well as anything else.
If it is important, I take them aside and speak quietly "You must not go to the river alone. It is my job to keep you safe and I can not do that if I don't know where you are."
When my teens leave I might say, "So, when the earthquake strikes, where will I find you?" They get the point and tell me where they are going. Their friends think I am weird. No actually they all want me to adopt them. I am the ONLY parent who knows what is really going on. Their kids are all at my house!!!!!!
When I am in doubt of how to handle a situation, I just ask myself "If things were reversed and I were this child, how would I want to be treated?" Works every time.
Janey
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I loved your letter.
I, too, have had conversations like that with mothers.
My four kids (3 boys, ages 15-29) are wonderful. They are kind, loving and polite. I have never had 'rebellious teens". In fact I really enjoy my teens- good thing since I have had one in my house for 15 years!!!!!!!!!
I have never punished any of them in any way. I don't play that game. I treat them as I would treat any one else. I have never understood why people think kids need to be treated like animals (or worse).
If I am being spoken to in a rude way I just say "It hurts my feelings when you say that" or better yet make it a joke. My kids joke with each other about how I turn fighting in to opera by singing "Yes you did" or what ever in a loud operatic voice. Worked every time. Or I might say, "Wow, do I need to salute?" or I might just say "Sir, Yes, Sir" like I am in boot camp and then hug them. Joking works just as well as anything else.
If it is important, I take them aside and speak quietly "You must not go to the river alone. It is my job to keep you safe and I can not do that if I don't know where you are."
When my teens leave I might say, "So, when the earthquake strikes, where will I find you?" They get the point and tell me where they are going. Their friends think I am weird. No actually they all want me to adopt them. I am the ONLY parent who knows what is really going on. Their kids are all at my house!!!!!!
When I am in doubt of how to handle a situation, I just ask myself "If things were reversed and I were this child, how would I want to be treated?" Works every time.
Janey
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"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma2kids
>> And you know what? My kids eat vegetables. Kirby doesn't likespinach, but it's not because we didn't try nothing! >>
I have done "nothing" to make Conor put the seat down and close the
lid each and every time he uses the toilet. I didn't yell, complain
or make a rule. Nothing. And yet he does it everytime. So does his
dad. So soe his sister. So do I. It's a kindness I appreciate.
Life is good.
~Mary
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/23/03 2:21:26 PM, hanson01@... writes:
<< My kids joke with each other about how I turn fighting in to opera by
singing "Yes you did" or what ever in a loud operatic voice. Worked every time.
Or I might say, "Wow, do I need to salute?" or I might just say "Sir, Yes, Sir"
like I am in boot camp and then hug them. Joking works just as well as
anything else. >>
Marty and I are more likely to start an argument than any other kid and
parent combo in the house. We've learned to turn it funny quickly and just let it
pass. If anyone's feelings are really hurt we discuss it later.
Friday we were going to watch a movie (Marty, Keith and I) and I complained
about them leaving me the worst chair (which I've said we should fix or trash,
and they say "No, it's fine"). So Marty traded with me, and as we were
rearranging stuff, he told me something like, "NO mom, put it THERE."
I said, "Don't tell me what to do," and I was close to frustration, and he
looked at me with obvious love and humor and said a little Tommy-Chong-like
"Don't tell ME what to do" (meaning don't tell me not to tell you what to
do---this is hard to explain without the tone of voice; sorry) and then we all just
laughed and watched the movie.
Sandra
<< My kids joke with each other about how I turn fighting in to opera by
singing "Yes you did" or what ever in a loud operatic voice. Worked every time.
Or I might say, "Wow, do I need to salute?" or I might just say "Sir, Yes, Sir"
like I am in boot camp and then hug them. Joking works just as well as
anything else. >>
Marty and I are more likely to start an argument than any other kid and
parent combo in the house. We've learned to turn it funny quickly and just let it
pass. If anyone's feelings are really hurt we discuss it later.
Friday we were going to watch a movie (Marty, Keith and I) and I complained
about them leaving me the worst chair (which I've said we should fix or trash,
and they say "No, it's fine"). So Marty traded with me, and as we were
rearranging stuff, he told me something like, "NO mom, put it THERE."
I said, "Don't tell me what to do," and I was close to frustration, and he
looked at me with obvious love and humor and said a little Tommy-Chong-like
"Don't tell ME what to do" (meaning don't tell me not to tell you what to
do---this is hard to explain without the tone of voice; sorry) and then we all just
laughed and watched the movie.
Sandra
Shannon
<<I have four children, one of whom is incredibly intense (ask anyone
at the SC
conference about my Jalen).>>
Quinn had a fabulous time with Jalen at the conference. They were adorable
together! :o)
Shan
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at the SC
conference about my Jalen).>>
Quinn had a fabulous time with Jalen at the conference. They were adorable
together! :o)
Shan
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