[email protected]

In a message dated 11/19/03 1:07:14 AM, mirindia4@... writes:

<< i
will not have them do the testing so that leaves the porfolio. any
suggestions
you could give me would be greatly appreciated. >>

I don't have to do a portfolio, but I have a known suggestion and a made-up
one. <g>

Some people keep scrap books with photos and brochures and such. Either
photos of the kids where they were doing something cool, or photos of the things
they've made or drawn. You could photograph an artsy lay-out of their library
books and put that in there for "December reading" or something.

Another idea might be to tell this list the cool stuff, and save the things
you write in a file you can print out.

No state reviewer (or whatever they are called) will read every word. They
just want to see evidence.

Sandra

kayb85

Here in PA we have to do portfolios to hand in to the district AND be
evaluated by a certified school teacher AND hand in a reading list
AND take standardized tests in certain grades. Plus a whole bunch of
other stuff that districts or some school-at-homers have made a
normal part of the portfolio and in some districts, even though it's
not in the law that you provide it, the district gets away
with "requiring" it because the precedent has been set.

A lot of people recommend against using pictures because it gives the
school too much of a glimpse into your life. Be aware of anything in
the background picture, especially if the picture is taken in your
house. You don't want a messy house or a sink full of dishes in the
background, kids in the picture who look like their hair hasn't been
brushed or clothes that don't look perfectly neat and clean. You
just don't want to take the chance that anyone at the school would
report you to social services for anything. Plus some districts
don't give portfolios back or lose portfolios, so if you give them a
scrapbook there's a chance you won't get your pictures back. And of
course if a lot of homeschoolers get in the habit of handing in
pictures, it sets a precedent and schools will start expecting
pictures, making it hard on those who don't want to or can't afford
to give pictures.

Brochures from trips are good, photocopied worksheets are good, big
long reading lists showing lots and lots of book titles are good.

Sheila


> << i
> will not have them do the testing so that leaves the porfolio. any
> suggestions
> you could give me would be greatly appreciated. >>
>
> I don't have to do a portfolio, but I have a known suggestion and a
made-up
> one. <g>
>
> Some people keep scrap books with photos and brochures and such.
Either
> photos of the kids where they were doing something cool, or photos
of the things
> they've made or drawn. You could photograph an artsy lay-out of
their library
> books and put that in there for "December reading" or something.
>
> Another idea might be to tell this list the cool stuff, and save
the things
> you write in a file you can print out.
>
> No state reviewer (or whatever they are called) will read every
word. They
> just want to see evidence.
>
> Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/19/03 10:43:03 AM, sheran@... writes:

<< A lot of people recommend against using pictures because it gives the

school too much of a glimpse into your life. >>

A lot of people are too paranoid.

Amazing, isn't it?

Maybe glimpses into real lives would help, not hurt, unschoolers.

<<Brochures from trips are good, photocopied worksheets are good, big

long reading lists showing lots and lots of book titles are good. >>

Photocopies worksheets?
Remember when Hansel stuck a chicken bone out so the blind witch could see if
he was gaining weight?

How sad that people have to live in those conditions. I hope that law is
changed before too long.


I would move before I would hide or stick out a chicken bone.

Sandra

zenmomma2kids

>>You could photograph an artsy lay-out of their library books and
put that in there for "December reading" or something.>>

If your library is on a computerized system, you can just keep the
printout when you check the books out. Throw it in a file labelled
for each month.

Throw in brochures from museums, art shows, movie stubs, appropriate
(meaning stuff they would *think* is educational) video rental
receipts, etc.

Take pictures of the kids doing stuff that's not easily documented
automatically. If they're playing a board game, doing stuff on the
computer, building a cool lego creation, building a model, setting
off rockets, etc.

Throw in whatever writing or doodles or pictures they've done.

The progress will be there because your kids *are* learning.

Life is good.
~Mary

Deborah Lewis

<< A lot of people recommend against using pictures because it gives the
school too much of a glimpse into your life. >>

***A lot of people are too paranoid.***

Pictures tell great stories!
This is from an e-mail I got from our friends in Arkansas, who just
received some pictures I sent in their late Birthday, early Christmas
package.

"The picture of Dyl on the piano bench is great. Did you make the hat??
Is that a song he's writing? Did he fold the origami horse? He's
getting good!
I can see the wolf puzzle on the table. Do you remember that stupid fish
puzzle? lol. I see you've been painting. The first one looks like Eli,
is it? lol.."

She knew more about what we'd been doing than I had written, and she knew
because of that picture.

I don't have to submit a portfolio, but it seems pictures would really
cut down on the amount of writing and explaining one would have to do.

Deb L

[email protected]

Last year we took photos of our son on the trampoline, computer, helping his
dad build the shed/barn (turned out larger than planned) and surfing.

I made a list of books that he said he had read throughout the year or that I
read to him.

I pointed out that his new interest in reading was enough accomplishment for
me that year as he hadn't touched a book since he left school. She agreed.

I noted his interests.

I also detailed all the items he had sold on Ebay and that he did the write
ups for the auctions, packaging of the boxes and that he had his own Paypal
card and handled his own account and balances.

It wasn't much. I held up the binder pointing to the photos printed on
regular paper and showed some old school papers with nasty red marks.
Ours are 15 minutes long and done in a group setting so it goes fast.

Laura


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85

> << A lot of people recommend against using pictures because it
gives the
>
> school too much of a glimpse into your life. >>
>
> A lot of people are too paranoid.
>
> Amazing, isn't it?

It sounds paranoid, but if you've been on PA lists and over and over
have seen people saying "Oh my Gosh, my school district is doing
this, this, and this and saying I have to do this, this, and this
(almost always referring to something they're requiring that they
don't have a legal right to require, but the law provides for no
punitive action against a school who doesn't obey the law). Can they
make me send my kids back to school? What if they take me to court?
What if I lose at court?" I've heard it MANY times.

I personally know someone who had children and youth sent to her home
and she found out it had been the school district who called--they
were mad because she hadn't complied with something.

I personally know someone who was a teacher in a PA school and told
me that the superintendent said at a staff meeting, "We can't stop
people from homeschooling but we can make it as hard as possible on
them".

I think maybe people have a good reason to be paranoid.


> How sad that people have to live in those conditions. I hope that
law is
> changed before too long.

I don't think it is very likely. We failed last time around--it
didn't get out of the education committee of the house of reps. Now
we have a governor who would refuse to sign a better homeschool law,
so we would need a 2/3 veto-proof vote in the house and senate. Not
likely. It's really sad actually, because there were people in PA
who sacrificed a LOT of time with their families to try to get that
passed. That's the thing that's rotten about trying to get new
homeschool laws--the people who have to try to fight against paid,
professional education lobbyists are moms whose kids really need them
at home.

> I would move before I would hide or stick out a chicken bone.

That's easy to say, and I've considered it a few times. But my
husband has a good job, he's comfortable here and wouldn't be happy
moving, my kids are comfortable here and wouldn't be happy moving.
We've put a lot into making our house the way we want it. Our house
is VERY unschool friendly and chances are we wouldn't be able to
afford a house this nice in other parts of the country. I mean, we
just built an addition and are making it a video game room. I think
some members of my family would rather I stick out chicken bones than
give that up. Is that weak and compromising? Maybe, or maybe it's
just doing what's best for my family right now.

Besides, I don't have pictures of my superintendent's family. Why
should he get pictures of mine? If he invites me to his home and
introduces me to his family, then maybe I'll be more open to sharing
more personal info with him. But for now, if chicken bones can
satisfy the letter of the law, that's better than personal info imo.

Sheila

Danielle E. Conger

At 07:34 PM 11/19/2003 +0000, you wrote:
> > I would move before I would hide or stick out a chicken bone.
>Sheila writes:
>That's easy to say, and I've considered it a few times. But ...

I've also heard how tough PA can be. Why not just join New Creation
Academy? That's out of Gettysburg isn't it? I've heard they're very
unschool friendly and non-religious, and it's not that much money at
all. $75 per family is definitely worth the peace of mind as well as
eliminating the hassle of reviewing with the school system. That's who I'm
considering for next year.

Just a thought. Doesn't take care of changing the law, but a pretty good
circumvention in my opinion.

--danielle

Norma

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
<>A lot of people are too paranoid. Amazing, isn't it?<>

Sandra:

True. A lot of people are way too paranoid about the whole portfolio
assessment option in Ohio, which is where this topic originated. As
I stated, it is totally up to the teacher. The form we certified OH
teachers sign is very brief, and it requires very little, so
the "unschool friendly" teacher is not going to be looking at much of
anything, at all. But newbies probably panic when they hear members
of certain more fundamentalist groups tell them they have to do this,
that, and the other thing. Just not true. It is so much simpler
than some folks think it is.

And, as I also clearly stated, there is a third option, which is the
one I opted for when I moved here from New Mexico. And that is that
you can do whatever you and your superintendent agree upon. I just
wrote a letter to my super stating that I felt I was the best person
to do this portfolio assessment, and explained why, never stating
that I was an OH certified teacher, by the way, just a home educating
parent. What that means is that I get to sign that simple piece of
paper myself for my child. How easy can it get? People believe
myths about these regs, when all anyone has to do is read them,
carefully, and they will see that they really do not require much at
all. And there is no punishment in this section of the regs, either.

Of course there are a few control-freak superintendents in Ohio, and
they do make it their goal in life to harass home educators, but
these home educators just need to hook up with a good support group
to find out the truth and stop providing more than the regs require,
which just hurts the rest of us, opens the door to support
legislation that would seek more control over us all. What I always
suggest when dealing with these supers is to take a copy of the regs
along, hold it out to them, and ask them to show you just where in
the regs it says whatever they are telling you that you must do.
Gets them every time. Most supers have never read the regs at all.

<>Photocopies worksheets? Remember when Hansel stuck a chicken bone
out so the blind witch could see if he was gaining weight? How sad
that people have to live in those conditions. I hope that law is
changed before too long.<>

The law is not going to be changed anytime soon. And if it were it
would be as a result of federal intervention, which would probably
keep it tied up in court for a good long while. No one needs to see
photocopied worksheets, and no one in Ohio submits anything
whatsoever to the schools directly. The only thing mailed is a
notification letter, telling the school that we are exercising our
right to home educate our own children, spitting back the
requirements listed in the regs, saying that we will do what they
say, and asking for a letter excusing us from compulsory attendance.
But no detail is required whatsoever. In subsequent years, after the
first notification we do have to submit one of the three forms of
assessment that I listed in my last post. Three very good options,
that include arranging it with your superintendent that you can do
any assessing yourself.

The funniest thing is that even though I have been preaching this
third option for six years now, very few people will even try to take
advantage of it. All it requires is that the home educating parent
present a simple, good rationale to the super why he or she should be
the one assessing his or her own child. That's easy! Who else would
be better qualified? If you write a good letter stating your
rationale then I have yet to find any super who has refused to allow
the parent to do this. And all "this" requires is filling in the
blanks on a simple form, a few sentences. So why do folks make it so
complicated? Why do they think this is so difficult? I sure don't
know. But I do know that it doesn't have to be.

And for those who are just too terrified to approach their super,
even in a letter, then the other two options are avaiable that I
listed earlier. This is not the best state for home education, but
it is also not the worst. I suggest everyone in every state read
their regulations carefully, use their own brains, question what they
read, and do not just take the word of someone else, or some other
organization, especially those known to be rather conservative.

Since our group offers free portfolio assessments to all interested
members, all anyone who doesn't want to tackle the super has to do is
plan ahead for that, join our group free of charge, enjoy the company
of other home educators for an afternoon, and that's that. How could
it be easier? Well, yes, we could have no assessment requirements,
which would suit me just fine. But in a way we have that with the
third option. Which is the one I use.

<>I would move before I would hide or stick out a chicken bone.<>

No one in Ohio has to hide of stick out a chicken bone. And if it
every came down to that, I would be the first to move, rest assured.
Either to Michigan, or back to New Mexico.

Norma


>
> Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/19/2003 12:22:45 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< A lot of people recommend against using pictures because it gives the

school too much of a glimpse into your life. >>

A lot of people are too paranoid.
~~~

I dunno. If I lived in Pennsylvania, I'd...well, I'd move! But I might be a
little more careful in state like that until I could hightail it outta there!

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/19/2003 4:23:21 PM Mountain Standard Time,
tessimal@... writes:
Gets them every time. Most supers have never read the regs at all.
Just amazing.
Maybe THEY should have to take a test every year, or show a portfolio about
any issue they're expected to be knowledgeable about.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85

New Creation Academy is based in Pennsylvania but PA doesn't have the
option of an umbrella school in the homeschool law. Maryland
homeschoolers can though, and many Maryland homeschoolers use New
Creation Academy as an alternative to the homeschool law. It is a
good place for PA homeschoolers to go to find an unschooling-friendly
evaluator (I have). But after we're evaluated by them we still have
to hand in our evaluations to the superintendent of the school
district. Kind of like a double evaluation.

Sheila



> I've also heard how tough PA can be. Why not just join New Creation
> Academy? That's out of Gettysburg isn't it? I've heard they're very
> unschool friendly and non-religious, and it's not that much money
at
> all. $75 per family is definitely worth the peace of mind as well
as
> eliminating the hassle of reviewing with the school system. That's
who I'm
> considering for next year.
>
> Just a thought. Doesn't take care of changing the law, but a pretty
good
> circumvention in my opinion.
>
> --danielle

zenmomma2kids

>>The funniest thing is that even though I have been preaching this
third option for six years now, very few people will even try to take
advantage of it. All it requires is that the home educating parent
present a simple, good rationale to the super why he or she should be
the one assessing his or her own child.>>

Maybe you could post a copy of the letter you sent (with names
removed, of course) so that it could be saved and referred to when
the question comes up again. I know people are often recommending
Carol Narigon's Letter of Intent. Maybe your letter to the
Superintendent could go along with that.

Life is good.
~Mary

Norma

--- In [email protected], "zenmomma2kids"
<zenmomma@h...> wrote:
> >>The funniest thing is that even though I have been preaching this
> third option for six years now, very few people will even try to
take
> advantage of it. All it requires is that the home educating parent
> present a simple, good rationale to the super why he or she should
be
> the one assessing his or her own child.>>
>
> Maybe you could post a copy of the letter you sent (with names
> removed, of course) so that it could be saved and referred to when
> the question comes up again. I know people are often recommending
> Carol Narigon's Letter of Intent. Maybe your letter to the
> Superintendent could go along with that.
>
> Life is good.
> ~Mary

Mary:

I have been asked to do that many times. But there is a difference
between a notification letter (letter of intent), which is just a
formality, declaring our right to educate our kids at home, and this
letter, which should be to suggest something personal, and should be
in the words of each particular home educator. I have offered clear
suggestions and also offered that if folks want to email their
letters to me I would be happy to read them and make suggestions.

For this letter, it's the rationale that counts, how well each parent
explains why he or she should be assessing their own, can do it
better than anyone else coming in for a few minutes or hours once a
year. It should explain how we are, by state regulations, granted the
same privileges as any classroom teacher in all other areas and are
certainly the best suited, best prepared to do this job, and why. If
this letter is brief (one page), spelled properly, uses good grammar,
punctuation, and sentence structure, then, as I said, no one has ever
had this request turned down, so far.

But then, the regs are written in such a way that theoretically a
superintendent could turn down this request, if he or she did not
agree with your request. The regs do not spell out what is or is not
acceptable for this alternative. So far no super has done this, but
there are a few humdingers out there, so I know it could happen. If
it ever happened to me I would just keep sending in more suggestions,
over and over again, until the super got tired of it and approved one
of them.

My recommendation is to write your own letter for this, keep it
simple. If insecure ask others in e-groups or local support groups
to read your letter, see what they think, and then go for it. Do
this early enough, say early spring, so that if your super should
turn you down you can still do other things, like: make other
suggestions to your superintendent; get the free portfolio assessment
with our group (must join our free group by Jan. 1); or find a
private OH certified teacher to do your portfolio assessment for a
fee; or find a nationally normed achievement test that you are
willing to give your kids, sending in the composite score.

Another suggestion I have put out for those who want something
concrete to send their supers (why, I don't know), would be to do the
detailed outline that some more conservative groups tell their
members they should do each year, to send in with their notification
letter to satisfy the "outline" requested in the state regs. One
could do this as a kind of end-of-year transcript for each year of
homeschooling. If you don't mind doing that there are plenty of
sources that can provide templates for this type of transcript. And
you will then be in the habit of keeping a transcript which will help
for college entrance later, specifically for the high school years.
I personally do not want to give the super this kind of detail, but
others are doing this annually, and unnecessarily, anyway. If you're
going to do it why not do it at the end of the year to satisfy your
assessment, instead of doing it at the beginning of the year. The
state itself puts out detailed standards guide booklets on "What Is
Expected in Grade _____" that could be used for this purpose.

With three relatively simple options, depending on what you prefer, I
hope that others will at least try Option #3. It's been on the books
for more than 13 years now, but I was the first to try it and found
that my superintendent, who is not really homeschool friendly, did
not even blink, approved it right away. And has continued to approve
it ever since, for six years now. As I said before, so far everyone
who has tried it has been approved. Seems to me it's a win/win
situation to at least try this option first.

Norma

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/19/03 1:34:32 PM, sheran@... writes:

<< Besides, I don't have pictures of my superintendent's family. Why

should he get pictures of mine? If he invites me to his home and

introduces me to his family, then maybe I'll be more open to sharing

more personal info with him. But for now, if chicken bones can

satisfy the letter of the law, that's better than personal info imo.

>>

That's all true, but the photos of kids doing cool things don't have to be
pictures of the inside of your house.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/20/03 7:10:04 AM, zenmomma@... writes:

<< Maybe you could post a copy of the letter you sent (with names

removed, of course) so that it could be saved and referred to when

the question comes up again. I know people are often recommending

Carol Narigon's Letter of Intent. Maybe your letter to the

Superintendent could go along with that. >>

I'd be willing to put it on a page linked to Carol's "unschooling curriculum"
if you want. Send me something (here or on the side) with the details you
think people might need and I'd be glad to give it a web home with an easy URL.

(Good idea, Mary. Thanks.)

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/20/03 8:16:20 AM, tessimal@... quoted Mary saying:

<< > Maybe you could post a copy of the letter you sent (with names

> removed, of course) so that it could be saved and referred to when

> the question comes up again. >>

OH! I was thinking Mary was recommending saving the post where you described
what it was and how to do it.

That's the "letter you sent" I was thinking, because I just woke up and
haven't had caffein.

Sandra

zenmomma2kids

>>OH! I was thinking Mary was recommending saving the post where you
described what it was and how to do it.>>

Does that mean it wasn't a great idea?

Aw gee. :-( <shuffle, shuffle, kicking at the ground>

I think either would be helpful. Does that count? lol

Life is good.
~Mary, sniff ;-)

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/20/03 11:30:07 AM, zenmomma@... writes:

<< Does that mean it wasn't a great idea?


Aw gee. :-( >>

What I THOUGHT you meant: that was a great idea. <g>

Sandra