TV_Video games-long
monie42001
I'm a newbie to this group. I've been homeschooling for almost 3
years, with an eclectic approach, generally relaxed with sporadic
attempts at a structured schedule, which I despise. I have 4 kids-
11,7,5,3. I have been familar with unschooling since the beginning,
but I have been focused on a semi curriculum( Waldorf, Charlotte
mason, Well trained mind),and what ever else stuck my fancy... I
have a real preference for literature. Any way... I'm breaking
away from all of that and I'm buying into the idea that my kids can
decide what tthey want to learn without my direct, direction. But
I'm in a quandry about the video games( and computer games online)
and Tv(pbs shows). My view is that if one is encouraging your child
to be self led in interests and learning, that It would be
appropriate to allow them to play video games/Tv until the cows come
home and they decide to do something different. I have read that
children will actually decide they would rather do something
else...Has this been anyone's experience? On the other hand,I am
having some serious fears that my boys will become adults adept only
at Nintendo Star Fox, or the like... And I think it might be
appropriate to set limits on the amount of media time daily.
In the past, I have used Media privledges as a successful motivator
to get specific studying completed. But In unschooling this will be
unnecessary. So you experienced people out there, what are your
views? enlighten me, If you will
Monica
years, with an eclectic approach, generally relaxed with sporadic
attempts at a structured schedule, which I despise. I have 4 kids-
11,7,5,3. I have been familar with unschooling since the beginning,
but I have been focused on a semi curriculum( Waldorf, Charlotte
mason, Well trained mind),and what ever else stuck my fancy... I
have a real preference for literature. Any way... I'm breaking
away from all of that and I'm buying into the idea that my kids can
decide what tthey want to learn without my direct, direction. But
I'm in a quandry about the video games( and computer games online)
and Tv(pbs shows). My view is that if one is encouraging your child
to be self led in interests and learning, that It would be
appropriate to allow them to play video games/Tv until the cows come
home and they decide to do something different. I have read that
children will actually decide they would rather do something
else...Has this been anyone's experience? On the other hand,I am
having some serious fears that my boys will become adults adept only
at Nintendo Star Fox, or the like... And I think it might be
appropriate to set limits on the amount of media time daily.
In the past, I have used Media privledges as a successful motivator
to get specific studying completed. But In unschooling this will be
unnecessary. So you experienced people out there, what are your
views? enlighten me, If you will
Monica
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/15/03 2:39:31 PM, mfredlund@... writes:
<< I have read that
children will actually decide they would rather do something
else...Has this been anyone's experience? >>
That is my experience.
<<On the other hand,I am
having some serious fears that my boys will become adults adept only
at Nintendo Star Fox, or the like... >>
My boys have never had limits. They're now 17 and 14, and fully capable of
interacting with adults and children in all kinds of impressive ways.
<<And I think it might be
appropriate to set limits on the amount of media time daily.
In the past, I have used Media privledges as a successful motivator
to get specific studying completed. >>
That sounds really awful to me.
"Successful" had to do with your desire to check something off a list, not
"success" in the future happiness and soul-peace of your children, I think.
<<But In unschooling this will be unnecessary. >>
Detrimental.
It was detrimental before, but I suppose something has caused you to change
your approach.
I have reading to recommend. Most of it is the writings of unschooling
parents. For some reason Mario isn't playing his song (he was last week so maybe
it's a temporary thing).
http://sandradodd.com/games/page
http://sandradodd.com/tv
http://sandradodd.com/typical
The third one is a collection of typical days. The other two are about video
games and TV.
Sandra
<< I have read that
children will actually decide they would rather do something
else...Has this been anyone's experience? >>
That is my experience.
<<On the other hand,I am
having some serious fears that my boys will become adults adept only
at Nintendo Star Fox, or the like... >>
My boys have never had limits. They're now 17 and 14, and fully capable of
interacting with adults and children in all kinds of impressive ways.
<<And I think it might be
appropriate to set limits on the amount of media time daily.
In the past, I have used Media privledges as a successful motivator
to get specific studying completed. >>
That sounds really awful to me.
"Successful" had to do with your desire to check something off a list, not
"success" in the future happiness and soul-peace of your children, I think.
<<But In unschooling this will be unnecessary. >>
Detrimental.
It was detrimental before, but I suppose something has caused you to change
your approach.
I have reading to recommend. Most of it is the writings of unschooling
parents. For some reason Mario isn't playing his song (he was last week so maybe
it's a temporary thing).
http://sandradodd.com/games/page
http://sandradodd.com/tv
http://sandradodd.com/typical
The third one is a collection of typical days. The other two are about video
games and TV.
Sandra
J. Stauffer
<<enlighten me if you will.>>
Decide on your favorit ice cream. I want you to go buy about 5 gallons of
it. Starting first thing in the morning start eating ice cream, eat nothing
but ice cream today, tomorrow, the next day, etc., etc., etc..
How many day do you figure it will take you to want to eat something else?
Julie S.
Decide on your favorit ice cream. I want you to go buy about 5 gallons of
it. Starting first thing in the morning start eating ice cream, eat nothing
but ice cream today, tomorrow, the next day, etc., etc., etc..
How many day do you figure it will take you to want to eat something else?
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "monie42001" <mfredlund@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 1:42 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] TV_Video games-long
> I'm a newbie to this group. I've been homeschooling for almost 3
> years, with an eclectic approach, generally relaxed with sporadic
> attempts at a structured schedule, which I despise. I have 4 kids-
> 11,7,5,3. I have been familar with unschooling since the beginning,
> but I have been focused on a semi curriculum( Waldorf, Charlotte
> mason, Well trained mind),and what ever else stuck my fancy... I
> have a real preference for literature. Any way... I'm breaking
> away from all of that and I'm buying into the idea that my kids can
> decide what tthey want to learn without my direct, direction. But
> I'm in a quandry about the video games( and computer games online)
> and Tv(pbs shows). My view is that if one is encouraging your child
> to be self led in interests and learning, that It would be
> appropriate to allow them to play video games/Tv until the cows come
> home and they decide to do something different. I have read that
> children will actually decide they would rather do something
> else...Has this been anyone's experience? On the other hand,I am
> having some serious fears that my boys will become adults adept only
> at Nintendo Star Fox, or the like... And I think it might be
> appropriate to set limits on the amount of media time daily.
> In the past, I have used Media privledges as a successful motivator
> to get specific studying completed. But In unschooling this will be
> unnecessary. So you experienced people out there, what are your
> views? enlighten me, If you will
>
> Monica
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
Fetteroll
on 11/15/03 2:42 PM, monie42001 at mfredlund@... wrote:
It also helps to play and watch with them enough to be familiar with what
they enjoy and understand their enjoyment enough to appreciate it. (Though
sometimes it's a kid thing and we just have to accept it ;-)
And to make sure there are opportunities that are even better to them than
TV so they aren't choosing TV and games because they're the best of a boring
lot of options.
sometimes. For a year she watched a lot of TV and now watches little. She
said she had writers block and now is back to writing. She plays video games
a lot when they're new. And despite having 5 systems, the amount of time
they've been on in the past two months is maybe an hour or two.
who grew up in supportive, loving, vibrant homes who turned into adult Star
Fox junkies?
And, additionally, have you played it? Do you know what's involved in being
adept at it?
Games are only fun as long as they're challenging. Once something's been
mastered, people want to move on. If they're still playing, then the game is
still challenging. (Or they're getting something out of it like a feeling of
competency at being able to do something.)
If it were chess you probably wouldn't worry! But many games are as
challenging as chess with all the strategies and potential moves that are
possible.
would it affect your relationship with him? How would you feel about those
precious 15 mintues? Wouldn't you make sure you got your 15 mintues every
single day? And wouldn't you often push the time limit, reading beyond 15
mintues until he demanded you stop?
Is that what you want your sons to feel around TV and video games?
something he felt was important but you felt was a waste of time, like
scrubbing the garage floor daily? How would you feel about him and the
garage floor? Do you think it likely that, when he wasn't around to make
you, you'd scrub the garage floor every day?
Making and bribing kids do something we think is important is often a good
way to make sure they avoid it when they are away from us and on their own.
So if you want a good way to make them not want to do math once they're out
of the house, then you should make them do an hour a day. ;-)
I think a life lived without being made and bribed to do what someone else
thinks is important is a much more joyful life and a better way to build
relationships with kids.
Joyce
> My view is that if one is encouraging your childThen you've caught on a lot quicker than most people! ;-)
> to be self led in interests and learning, that It would be
> appropriate to allow them to play video games/Tv until the cows come
> home and they decide to do something different.
It also helps to play and watch with them enough to be familiar with what
they enjoy and understand their enjoyment enough to appreciate it. (Though
sometimes it's a kid thing and we just have to accept it ;-)
And to make sure there are opportunities that are even better to them than
TV so they aren't choosing TV and games because they're the best of a boring
lot of options.
> I have read thatYes. My daughter has free rein of the TV and video games. She goes on binges
> children will actually decide they would rather do something
> else...Has this been anyone's experience?
sometimes. For a year she watched a lot of TV and now watches little. She
said she had writers block and now is back to writing. She plays video games
a lot when they're new. And despite having 5 systems, the amount of time
they've been on in the past two months is maybe an hour or two.
> On the other hand,I amThink about that and what you're basing that theory on. Do you know of kids
> having some serious fears that my boys will become adults adept only
> at Nintendo Star Fox, or the like
who grew up in supportive, loving, vibrant homes who turned into adult Star
Fox junkies?
And, additionally, have you played it? Do you know what's involved in being
adept at it?
Games are only fun as long as they're challenging. Once something's been
mastered, people want to move on. If they're still playing, then the game is
still challenging. (Or they're getting something out of it like a feeling of
competency at being able to do something.)
If it were chess you probably wouldn't worry! But many games are as
challenging as chess with all the strategies and potential moves that are
possible.
> ... And I think it might beWhat if your husband decided you could only read for 15 mintues a day? How
> appropriate to set limits on the amount of media time daily.
would it affect your relationship with him? How would you feel about those
precious 15 mintues? Wouldn't you make sure you got your 15 mintues every
single day? And wouldn't you often push the time limit, reading beyond 15
mintues until he demanded you stop?
Is that what you want your sons to feel around TV and video games?
> In the past, I have used Media privledges as a successful motivatorWhat if your husband said you could read for a whole hour if you did
> to get specific studying completed.
something he felt was important but you felt was a waste of time, like
scrubbing the garage floor daily? How would you feel about him and the
garage floor? Do you think it likely that, when he wasn't around to make
you, you'd scrub the garage floor every day?
Making and bribing kids do something we think is important is often a good
way to make sure they avoid it when they are away from us and on their own.
So if you want a good way to make them not want to do math once they're out
of the house, then you should make them do an hour a day. ;-)
I think a life lived without being made and bribed to do what someone else
thinks is important is a much more joyful life and a better way to build
relationships with kids.
Joyce
Heidi
Hi Monica
You've gotten some really good advice already. Just thought I'd throw
my .02 in, because I've been where you are.
In fact, you sound like where I've been for the nearly one year since
I dropped curriculum completely. I've been letting the kids play as
much computer as they want, but holding on to this notion that they
could be spending their time better...which, even though I didn't
really voice it out loud (i.e. "Okay, offa there, NOW!")...my
attitude was leaking into my relationship with especially my 10 year
old boy.
One difference in our life right now: we live in the country and have
made a committment not to run as much, until we get moved to an area
where you don't have to run to get to lessons and community events.
This means, there just isn't much variety for my kids to choose from,
thus they are playing computer and watching videos a LOT. I know, if
there was more to offer, they'd be choosing otherwise more often.
As it is, though Sonic the Hedgehog seems to be dominating their
time, I have truly changed my mind about it...very recently, in fact.
When I translated computer games into bicycle riding, I realized my
attitude about it was silly. "Oh no! My boy is riding his bike, all
day LONG!" as if that was a bad thing.
Well, he is WAY into Sonic, but it hasn't ruined his ability to do
all kinds of other things. As a matter of fact, the VCR is on the
fritz right now, so TV is out, and he just hauled out the Legos to
play with. He didn't stand there twitching or whining about nothing
to do (it was somebody else's turn on the computer...MINE! ;) just
got out something else to do and started doing it. (note: He used to
whine about it, when it wasn't his turn...when I was still fretting
about computer and TV time)
He also pitched in with everyone, when we did a Massive Wood
Gathering and Log Splitting Afternoon. In fact, he is the one who
taught me how to place the wedge and whack at it with the mallet. :)
so, after almost a year of playing as much computer as he possibly
CAN, my boy is also capable of lots of things, voluntarily chooses
things not computer, not TV, and yet is very excited about Sonic,
too. When he conquers a level, because I have expressed interest in
it (I can conquer a level in Sonic, my own self )...I am the person
he comes dashing to, all excited and proud, to tell me how he did it.
Well, I hope you have a bit to chew on between the replies you've
gotten. This was my main "concern" for many months, but no more. I
think it took longer because I hadn't really "given up" but now that
I really and truly do not fret about it, he's quickly showing that he
will turn to other things when presented.
blessings, HeidiC
--- In [email protected], "monie42001"
<mfredlund@a...> wrote:
But
You've gotten some really good advice already. Just thought I'd throw
my .02 in, because I've been where you are.
In fact, you sound like where I've been for the nearly one year since
I dropped curriculum completely. I've been letting the kids play as
much computer as they want, but holding on to this notion that they
could be spending their time better...which, even though I didn't
really voice it out loud (i.e. "Okay, offa there, NOW!")...my
attitude was leaking into my relationship with especially my 10 year
old boy.
One difference in our life right now: we live in the country and have
made a committment not to run as much, until we get moved to an area
where you don't have to run to get to lessons and community events.
This means, there just isn't much variety for my kids to choose from,
thus they are playing computer and watching videos a LOT. I know, if
there was more to offer, they'd be choosing otherwise more often.
As it is, though Sonic the Hedgehog seems to be dominating their
time, I have truly changed my mind about it...very recently, in fact.
When I translated computer games into bicycle riding, I realized my
attitude about it was silly. "Oh no! My boy is riding his bike, all
day LONG!" as if that was a bad thing.
Well, he is WAY into Sonic, but it hasn't ruined his ability to do
all kinds of other things. As a matter of fact, the VCR is on the
fritz right now, so TV is out, and he just hauled out the Legos to
play with. He didn't stand there twitching or whining about nothing
to do (it was somebody else's turn on the computer...MINE! ;) just
got out something else to do and started doing it. (note: He used to
whine about it, when it wasn't his turn...when I was still fretting
about computer and TV time)
He also pitched in with everyone, when we did a Massive Wood
Gathering and Log Splitting Afternoon. In fact, he is the one who
taught me how to place the wedge and whack at it with the mallet. :)
so, after almost a year of playing as much computer as he possibly
CAN, my boy is also capable of lots of things, voluntarily chooses
things not computer, not TV, and yet is very excited about Sonic,
too. When he conquers a level, because I have expressed interest in
it (I can conquer a level in Sonic, my own self )...I am the person
he comes dashing to, all excited and proud, to tell me how he did it.
Well, I hope you have a bit to chew on between the replies you've
gotten. This was my main "concern" for many months, but no more. I
think it took longer because I hadn't really "given up" but now that
I really and truly do not fret about it, he's quickly showing that he
will turn to other things when presented.
blessings, HeidiC
--- In [email protected], "monie42001"
<mfredlund@a...> wrote:
But
> I'm in a quandry about the video games( and computer games online)child
> and Tv(pbs shows). My view is that if one is encouraging your
> to be self led in interests and learning, that It would become
> appropriate to allow them to play video games/Tv until the cows
> home and they decide to do something different. I have read thatonly
> children will actually decide they would rather do something
> else...Has this been anyone's experience? On the other hand,I am
> having some serious fears that my boys will become adults adept
> at Nintendo Star Fox, or the like... And I think it might be
> appropriate to set limits on the amount of media time daily.
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/16/03 2:34:01 AM, fetteroll@... writes:
<< If it were chess you probably wouldn't worry! But many games are as
challenging as chess with all the strategies and potential moves that are
possible. >>
Chess was the most exciting of a boring lot of things at one time in the
world. <g>
Now it's "a classic" and people are drawn to it because it has aesthetic
value (beautiful pieces; a history of its own in art and literature), because
grandparents approve, because there are competitions with rankings and prizes and
titles... There is a chess culture. It's not a harder game than other games
out there, it just has "ancient and honorable" roots.
<<> ... And I think it might be
would it affect your relationship with him? How would you feel about those
precious 15 mintues?>>
Would you like him better if he gave you an hour? <g>
<<So if you want a good way to make them not want to do math once they're out
of the house, then you should make them do an hour a day. ;-)>>
If you want them to do a lot of math someday when they're grown, forbid it
entirely!
Sandra
<< If it were chess you probably wouldn't worry! But many games are as
challenging as chess with all the strategies and potential moves that are
possible. >>
Chess was the most exciting of a boring lot of things at one time in the
world. <g>
Now it's "a classic" and people are drawn to it because it has aesthetic
value (beautiful pieces; a history of its own in art and literature), because
grandparents approve, because there are competitions with rankings and prizes and
titles... There is a chess culture. It's not a harder game than other games
out there, it just has "ancient and honorable" roots.
<<> ... And I think it might be
> appropriate to set limits on the amount of media time daily.<<What if your husband decided you could only read for 15 mintues a day? How
would it affect your relationship with him? How would you feel about those
precious 15 mintues?>>
Would you like him better if he gave you an hour? <g>
<<So if you want a good way to make them not want to do math once they're out
of the house, then you should make them do an hour a day. ;-)>>
If you want them to do a lot of math someday when they're grown, forbid it
entirely!
Sandra
Penn Acres
Picking up a bit in the middle....
Sandra touched on what learning chess means/has meant..
Have to mention Zoombinis -. Heard Sandra et. all mention it and was intrigued by their endorsements.
My ggd's are 8 years old. They like checkers but we havn't gotten into our Chess for Kids box.
They had Zoombinis given to them this fall. Wow- They poked around with it a bit-I'm not much help-then they were off. It is all strategy- and wrapped up in a pretty neat package. They began personalizing it-like everyone of their friends/family is a particular Zoombini and they try to make sure different combinations get across together .
This has been the most eye-opening-"unschooling" part of computer/games for me-just to see that my old ideas of "Yes, but if they learned checkers and then chess that would really be something"
They asked for the new Zoombinis for Xmas so I ordered it from Amazonca and it is tucked away-Unless of course we hit a real dry spell before then. Some years I haul out half of the Xmas presents before then, just because it seems like a good idea.
And yes they ask when we will get to that Chess box. -I am just not a "games" person but I try. Allan is but he doesnt play chess-maybe I should get him playing it and then he can help the girls-Aha -a plan....
Grace
in the snowy Rockies where the temp is finally above freezing again...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra touched on what learning chess means/has meant..
Have to mention Zoombinis -. Heard Sandra et. all mention it and was intrigued by their endorsements.
My ggd's are 8 years old. They like checkers but we havn't gotten into our Chess for Kids box.
They had Zoombinis given to them this fall. Wow- They poked around with it a bit-I'm not much help-then they were off. It is all strategy- and wrapped up in a pretty neat package. They began personalizing it-like everyone of their friends/family is a particular Zoombini and they try to make sure different combinations get across together .
This has been the most eye-opening-"unschooling" part of computer/games for me-just to see that my old ideas of "Yes, but if they learned checkers and then chess that would really be something"
They asked for the new Zoombinis for Xmas so I ordered it from Amazonca and it is tucked away-Unless of course we hit a real dry spell before then. Some years I haul out half of the Xmas presents before then, just because it seems like a good idea.
And yes they ask when we will get to that Chess box. -I am just not a "games" person but I try. Allan is but he doesnt play chess-maybe I should get him playing it and then he can help the girls-Aha -a plan....
Grace
in the snowy Rockies where the temp is finally above freezing again...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
foxymophandlemama32
They asked for the new Zoombinis for Xmas so I ordered it from
Amazonca and it is tucked away-Unless of course we hit a real dry
spell before then. Some years I haul out half of the Xmas presents
before then, just because it seems like a good idea.
And yes they ask when we will get to that Chess box. -I am just
not a "games" person but I try. Allan is but he doesnt play chess-
maybe I should get him playing it and then he can help the girls-Aha -
a plan....
Grace
in the snowy Rockies where the temp is finally above freezing
again...
I came across a Harry Potter Wizard Chess set when I was putting some
stuff on layby for Christmas. Had to get it. Mark (dh) is a chess
fanatic and the boys really like to play AND we all LOVE Harry
Potter. There couldn't be a better present to buy. I know what we
will be
doing over the holidays!!
Julie
Amazonca and it is tucked away-Unless of course we hit a real dry
spell before then. Some years I haul out half of the Xmas presents
before then, just because it seems like a good idea.
And yes they ask when we will get to that Chess box. -I am just
not a "games" person but I try. Allan is but he doesnt play chess-
maybe I should get him playing it and then he can help the girls-Aha -
a plan....
Grace
in the snowy Rockies where the temp is finally above freezing
again...
I came across a Harry Potter Wizard Chess set when I was putting some
stuff on layby for Christmas. Had to get it. Mark (dh) is a chess
fanatic and the boys really like to play AND we all LOVE Harry
Potter. There couldn't be a better present to buy. I know what we
will be
doing over the holidays!!
Julie