A S (Gus) Griffin

I mean no offense, but if someone, perhaps the lawyer in charge of the case, could less emotively relate, in chronological order, the verifiable facts of this story - it would be easier for some of us to decide to give support.
 
Gus
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 8:35 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Fwd: FW: Homeschooler's nightmare continues(please read and forward)


>Delivered-To: Stuff@...
>X-eGroups-Return: Stuff@...
>Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 12:24:06 -0000
>From: "Susan Monser" <Stuff@...>
>To: Stuff@...
>Subject: Fwd:  FW: Homeschooler's nightmare continues
>User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82
>X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster
>
>--- In [email protected], "Judith Gips" <comadre@m...> wrote:
>my friend Patty is fighting the CPS in Alameda County CA for seizing
>her
>children because a relative of the children's father (their father is
>a
>sometimes violent homeless man who has no chance of gaining custody
>of his
>sons) reported that the 9 year old twin boys were "socially isolated"
>and
>"unable to relate to anyone but their mother." the children have been
>in
>three placements in the past several weeks. I know these children
>from the
>Berkeley YMCA, where they swim, play basketball, join group arts and
>crafts
>projects, and generally are a part of the community. Please read and
>circulate this letter - it is a lesson in the absurd, and it could
>happen to
>anyone. Patty is a down to earth older mother who gave birth to twins
>at age
>45 after long term infertility, and she has been following the
>Independent
>Studies curriculum supervised by the Berkeley Unified School District.
>
>Needless to say this has not increased my respect for the child rescue
>establishment. Homeschooling is not the only item that could generate
>such a
>bizarre set of events - any over-zealous neighbor or social worker who
>doesn't like your religion or lack thereof, your family bed, your
>letting
>children play naked in the backyard, your messy house, diet, longterm
>breastfeeding, style of dress or choice of family acctivities could
>get
>something like this nightmare going. Official documents blame
>Ptaricia for
>using "manipulative charm" with the children because she told
>them, "Smile
>and tell the truth if anyone asks you questions."
>
>Please note that a legal defense fund has been established on Patty's
>behalf
>- if you or anyone or any group you trust could contribute even a
>little, it
>would be wonderful. Thanks, friends, Judith
>
>----------
>From: pattypink@s...
>
>Dear Lori and Friends,                          5/11/00
>  ( This is typed into the computer and sent for Patricia by Anne
>Marie.
>Patricia is in bed with a migraine headache but wanted  to update
>those
>concerned. )
>
>======================
>Patricia has said:
>
>Dear Friends of Nils and Hans,
>
>Thank you for the love and support your email and calls offer. The
>support I
>get  gives me great strength and courage to continue. I welcome
>correspondence
>from anyone who has advice to offer,  or comments about this
>situation.
>
>I began today with "The Lord is my shepherd, ......"  This morning
>one of
>the
>neighbor kids came by to say "Are you going to see the boys today?
>Would you
>say 'Hi' for me?" I assured him I would and recited the the prayer
>for him.
>He
>said he had never heard it! I think back to those many times I
>repeated it
>over and over as a child his age going to Sunday school.  I knew I
>would get
>a
>red  bible bookmark with my name and the Lord's Prayer on it in gold
>letters
>as soon as I could say the whole thing. I was the same age as my boys
>are
>now
>when I memorized it.
>
>MInutes later my 82 year old Buddhist landlady  asked me to come in
>and
>chant
>with her for a few minutes at her alter. She loves my children just
>like her
>own  great grandchildren that Hans and Nils played with daily. She is
>broken
>hearted by this tragedy. She misses the hugs the boys gave her every
>day.
>Both
>Hans and Nils call her Grannie Annie. She is impatient to get into
>court and
>give those people her opinion about all of this.
>
>After a few kind words from Grannie Annie I  left to see my children
>for
>visit
>#3. It was wonderful to hug them.
>
>*****They tell me my sons will be moved to another foster home and
>enrolled
>in
>public school next Monday.*****
>
>They have no glasses. They have not had needed fillings and teeth
>cleaning.
>They said they miss me in the morning when they wake up and need a
>hug from
>me. 'They told me they love me and want to come home. We read a book
>about
>rocks and minerals and learned about the hardness scale: Diamonds 10,
>Quartz
>7, Talc 1. They decided to start a rock collection. We joked and
>laughed. We
>all three managed somehow not to cry.
>
>All ages, sizes, and shapes of people who worship in many ways are
>sending
>their love to my children at this time. And it will take a lot of
>love to
>overcome this terrible thing. I send my deepest gratitude to everyone
>who
>has
>written, prayed, chanted, called, emailed etc to share their love
>with our
>family.
>
>I will try to send out updates after our weekly visits. Please send
>us your
>love at 10 am Thursdays when we will hug-hug-hug and be a family
>united
>again
>for a few all too short moments.
>
>In Hope,
>Patricia Moodian-Pink
>========================================
>========================================
>Other information for those have have asked:
>The family's attorney has a trust account to hold funds for the
>family's
>legal
>defense.
>
>Any donations to help huge huge legal costs to
>  bring the boys home may be made by check payable to:
>
>Mr. David Beauvais,  Attorney for Patricia/Hans/Nils Moodian-Pink
>
>and mailed to his law office at:
>
>1840 Woolsey,   Berkeley CA 94704  USA
>
>He may be reached at (510) 845-0504   where he will be very busy
>trying to
>prepare this complicated case and do all of the necessary legal
>procedures
>to
>get Nils and Hans released.
>
>If you would like to  talk about the case and have general questions
>Patricia
>can be reached late evening at (510)666-0411. Or you can write to her
>at
>POBox
>2632, Berkeley, CA 94702. If you get her 24 hour voice mail leave a
>number
>where she can call you back collect or even better an email address
>she can
>write to you at. Her phone bill is huge now due to this case and she
>says
>she
>can not afford to call you  unless you would accept a collect call if
>you
>are
>out of her area code. Patricia welcomes all communication. She
>realizes her
>case is not isolated, and can set a precedent for other families.
>
>A little legal defense fund Benefit is hoping to happen here in
>Berkeley.
>Two
>excellent Berkeley bands have already volunteered to play at it.
>Children's
>entertainers are invited  to volunteer. We need a small, free place
>to hold
>it
>where a band could set up and play on a Sunday afternoon, printing,
>advertising etc. If any one is interested in helping or has
>suggestions
>please
>contact Patricia
><pattypink@s...>.
>----------
>"Freedom of Speech is a Precious Right.
>  Don't let anyone take away yours or mine.
>Children are Precious.
>Don't let anyone take away yours or mine."
>                    [from Patricia Moodian-Pink 5/11/2000]
>---------
>For those who may have missed it -
>  from the original paperwork to remove and hold the children:
>
>  Quotes from Screener Narrative before children removed on 4/20/2000:
>
> >"The children are homeschooled and never allowed out of her sight."
>  "Mom has totally isolated the minors and allows them no contact with
>anyone
>but her." "...at risk environment of the minors."
>  (These are totally false allegations about two socially active
>children
>that
>are well integrated into their community.)
>
> >  'Screener Narrative' recommendations:           " 3. The children
> > enter public school next year, or as soon as their mental health and
> > development allows."
>
>Their own records and documents prove what they did to remove the
>children
>These documents exist,  no matter how they try to squirm around after
>the
>fact. No matter what else they do in new petitions after the wrongful
>detention, those words are, in fact, quotes from documents used to
>remove
>the children.
>
>In an effort to keep from antagonizing the court Patricia is asking
>that
>neither the worker nor the court be contacted at this point. That
>could
>change
>in the future depending on many things. For now she is concerned that
>they
>not
>only have her children but could take away the one hour closely
>supervised
>visit per week that she is allowed with them.  She also does not want
>to
>have
>a gag order placed on her so that she is not even allowed to update
>others
>on
>what is happening. In their petitions they tried to get the court to
>order
>her
>not to talk to anyone "in the best interest of the minors." Patricia
>is very
>grateful to all who have shown concern for the children.
>--- End forwarded message ---
>
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Susan and Theodore

At 09:22 PM 5/12/00 +0800, you wrote:
>I mean no offense, but if someone, perhaps the lawyer in charge of the
>case, could less emotively relate, in chronological order, the verifiable
>facts of this story - it would be easier for some of us to decide to give
>support.
>
>Gus

<CUT>

Oh my I see that you have not had any visits from CPS!
I have
For nothing
In fact I got a copy of the report and it said in there that I:

Breast feed exclusively (a 5 month old) (it did also state that he was
nourished)
Home school
That my kids were dirty (which they were not)
Do not immunize (I realize this is controversial)
That I refused to give my child the medicine prescribed (I did refuse
Ibuprophen...I asked for Tylenol instead and I TOLD the doctor that yes I
came there (to the hospital) for treatment so yes I was going to fill the
prescription)
OH and the best was that I had a home birth
Oh yes and the doctor went on further to say that I have been reported to
CPS several times and I was a repeat offender.....
In fact when I was called the next day (after they came and were satisfied)
the worker asked me why he could not find me in his files...He was really
troubled and I explained HELLO I am not in there (as if all people who are
reported are child abusers)

*They were going to take my baby right then* (at the hospital...I had all
sorts of people in my room)

The doctor was pissed because I would not bow down to her!

They (CPS) actually came to my house that night and I showed them the
medication that I FILLED and they were still not appeased

This whole circus lasted for months (which I lived in terror).
They sent me letters dated weeks earlier which stated they were going to
take my babe if I did not take him to my family doctor (which I later
learned was best friends with CPS) in ten days (the time would be expired
by the time I got the letters)...I had taken him to the doctors (which was
fun in itself as whenever I went *CPS had called them* I had every doctor
in my room examining every inch of my babe and the receptionists curious
stares) (who gave me another prescription which lasts (good guess 10 days))
BUT the prescription made the babe puke and get a red blistery butt (which
started bleeding and was sore for months)......*the doctor told me NO he is
not allergic to the antibiotic*........I found some wonderful homeopathic
remedy that cleared it up in days........(But I do recall I made an
appointment to appease CPS and when I called to cancel it they were rather
upset and kept calling me to reschedule or just to come in when I
could.......(I wonder if CPS was laying in wait)

So I did not take him back.......more letters....My attorney all this time
had been calling them, stating that I did not have to treat my babe with
allopathic remedies ......to no avail........

It ended after I sent them a letter politely asking them to F%$K off

Do I sound paranoid?
You bet!
Can you imagine receiving letters that someone is going to take your baby
because you do not want him to receive any more antibiotics that cause "red
blistery butt" and puking....who no longer has an ear infection?

ALL this for an ear infection and because I had my baby in the loving
environment of my family, teach my children life in the safety and warmth
of our home, with a bare milk filled breast thrown in!

Please go and visit www.CPSWatch.com

Love POD

PS by emotively rate do you mean losing your kids without emotion *wah* (is
this possible)

[email protected]

Wow, Susan-- You have been going through a nightmare, for sure!!! If you
don't mind sharing, where do you live? I have never heard of such terrible
treatment!! (Of course, I have READ about things like this in books, but
have not heard of anyone's personal tragedy.) I am so very sorry that you
have been put through such disrespect, and cruelty. I will definitely
forward the message on and check into the web site you recommended on an
earlier post. Hope things are going better for you. ~Karen from Ind

A S (Gus) Griffin

Hi POD,
 
I see, though not intending to, that I did in fact give offense.  For that I am sorry.  And from what you have given me below I am beginning to get more of the picture.  I will also go to CPSWatch and get fully informed.
 
However, I've also had a lot of experience in fighting mindless bureaucracy - so please hear me when I say that you or someone needs to dispassionately lay out, in chronological order, the verifiable facts of this case.  If you do that, many more "sober citizens" will feel comfortable about backing you up, than you will get from emotional appeals.
 
Please don't misunderstand - I'm not being patronizing and saying "calm down" or anything like that.  I'm sure I would be even more freaked out than you - but to drum up support a dispassionate report is invaluable. 
 
If now is not the time to try to give you this advice - well, I apologize again for bad timing.
 
Sincerely, Gus
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] CPS is abuse

At 09:22 PM 5/12/00 +0800, you wrote:
>I mean no offense, but if someone, perhaps the lawyer in charge of the
>case, could less emotively relate, in chronological order, the verifiable
>facts of this story - it would be easier for some of us to decide to give
>support.
>
>Gus

<CUT>

Oh my I see that you have not had any visits from CPS!
I have
For nothing
In fact I got a copy of the report and it said in there that I:

Breast feed exclusively (a 5 month old) (it did also state that he was
nourished)
Home school
That my kids were dirty (which they were not)
Do not immunize (I realize this is controversial)
That I refused to give my child the medicine prescribed (I did refuse
Ibuprophen...I asked for Tylenol instead and I TOLD the doctor that yes I
came there (to the hospital) for treatment so yes I was going to fill the
prescription)
OH and the best was that I had a home birth
Oh yes and the doctor went on further to say that I have been reported to
CPS several times and I was a repeat offender.....
In fact when I was called the next day (after they came and were satisfied)
the worker asked me why he could not find me in his files...He was really
troubled and I explained HELLO I am not in there (as if all people who are
reported are child abusers)

*They were going to take my baby right then* (at the hospital...I had all
sorts of people in my room)

The doctor was pissed because I would not bow down to her!

They (CPS) actually came to my house that night and I showed them the
medication that I FILLED and they were still not appeased

This whole circus lasted for months (which I lived in terror).
They sent me letters dated weeks earlier which stated they were going to
take my babe if I did not take him to my family doctor (which I later
learned was best friends with CPS) in ten days (the time would be expired
by the time I got the letters)...I had taken him to the doctors (which was
fun in itself as whenever I went *CPS had called them* I had every doctor
in  my room examining every inch of my babe and the receptionists curious
stares) (who gave me another prescription which lasts (good guess 10 days))
BUT the prescription made the babe puke and get a red blistery butt (which
started bleeding and was sore for months)......*the doctor told me NO he is
not allergic to the antibiotic*........I found some wonderful homeopathic
remedy that cleared it up in days........(But I do recall I made an
appointment to appease CPS and when I called to cancel it they were rather
upset and kept calling me to reschedule or just to come in when I
could.......(I wonder if CPS was laying in wait)

So I did not take him back.......more letters....My attorney all this time
had been calling them, stating that I did not have to treat my babe with
allopathic remedies ......to no avail........

It ended after I sent them a letter politely asking them to F%$K off

Do I sound paranoid?
You bet!
Can you imagine receiving letters that someone is going to take your baby
because you do not want him to receive any more antibiotics that cause "red
blistery butt" and puking....who no longer has an ear infection?

ALL this for an ear infection and because I had my baby in the loving
environment of my family, teach my children life in the safety and warmth
of our home, with a bare milk filled breast thrown in!

Please go and visit www.CPSWatch.com

Love POD

PS by emotively rate do you mean losing your kids without emotion *wah* (is
this possible)
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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Susan and Theodore

OH things are much quieter now!
My story happened about a year ago......but I still live in fear of them
(though I try not to)
All I ask of anyone/everyone is that you become educated and educate others
and try to be supportive......
CPS is doing many unkind things to many people for reasons as simple or
less as mine!
Thanks
POD (Susan) who lives in PA (Carbon county........but it happens everywhere)

>Wow, Susan-- You have been going through a nightmare, for sure!!! If you
>don't mind sharing, where do you live? I have never heard of such terrible
>treatment!! (Of course, I have READ about things like this in books, but
>have not heard of anyone's personal tragedy.) I am so very sorry that you
>have been put through such disrespect, and cruelty. I will definitely
>forward the message on and check into the web site you recommended on an
>earlier post. Hope things are going better for you. ~Karen from Ind

Susan and Theodore

Well I am not sure what I can do for you on the "facts"
Some of them are laid out in the post........but I am not sure what more I
can get as CPS is not one to distribute their info!?
I will respond and see what happens!
thanks (I was not offended I just want people to know the
"facts"..............CPS is abuse) *not to say that it is not life saving
for some*

POD

At 10:31 PM 5/12/00 +0800, you wrote:
>Hi POD,
>
>I see, though not intending to, that I did in fact give offense. For that
>I am sorry. And from what you have given me below I am beginning to get
>more of the picture. I will also go to CPSWatch and get fully informed.
>
>However, I've also had a lot of experience in fighting mindless
>bureaucracy - so please hear me when I say that you or someone needs to
>dispassionately lay out, in chronological order, the verifiable facts of
>this case. If you do that, many more "sober citizens" will feel
>comfortable about backing you up, than you will get from emotional appeals.
>
>Please don't misunderstand - I'm not being patronizing and saying "calm
>down" or anything like that. I'm sure I would be even more freaked out
>than you - but to drum up support a dispassionate report is invaluable.
>
>If now is not the time to try to give you this advice - well, I apologize
>again for bad timing.
>
>Sincerely, Gus
>
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <mailto:Stuff@...>Susan and Theodore
>>To: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
>>Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 10:02 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] CPS is abuse
>>
>>At 09:22 PM 5/12/00 +0800, you wrote:
>> >I mean no offense, but if someone, perhaps the lawyer in charge of the
>> >case, could less emotively relate, in chronological order, the verifiable
>> >facts of this story - it would be easier for some of us to decide to give
>> >support.
>> >
>> >Gus
>>
>><CUT>
>>
>>Oh my I see that you have not had any visits from CPS!
>>I have
>>For nothing
>>In fact I got a copy of the report and it said in there that I:
>>
>>Breast feed exclusively (a 5 month old) (it did also state that he was
>>nourished)
>>Home school
>>That my kids were dirty (which they were not)
>>Do not immunize (I realize this is controversial)
>>That I refused to give my child the medicine prescribed (I did refuse
>>Ibuprophen...I asked for Tylenol instead and I TOLD the doctor that yes I
>>came there (to the hospital) for treatment so yes I was going to fill the
>>prescription)
>>OH and the best was that I had a home birth
>>Oh yes and the doctor went on further to say that I have been reported to
>>CPS several times and I was a repeat offender.....
>>In fact when I was called the next day (after they came and were satisfied)
>>the worker asked me why he could not find me in his files...He was really
>>troubled and I explained HELLO I am not in there (as if all people who are
>>reported are child abusers)
>>
>>*They were going to take my baby right then* (at the hospital...I had all
>>sorts of people in my room)
>>
>>The doctor was pissed because I would not bow down to her!
>>
>>They (CPS) actually came to my house that night and I showed them the
>>medication that I FILLED and they were still not appeased
>>
>>This whole circus lasted for months (which I lived in terror).
>>They sent me letters dated weeks earlier which stated they were going to
>>take my babe if I did not take him to my family doctor (which I later
>>learned was best friends with CPS) in ten days (the time would be expired
>>by the time I got the letters)...I had taken him to the doctors (which was
>>fun in itself as whenever I went *CPS had called them* I had every doctor
>>in my room examining every inch of my babe and the receptionists curious
>>stares) (who gave me another prescription which lasts (good guess 10 days))
>>BUT the prescription made the babe puke and get a red blistery butt (which
>>started bleeding and was sore for months)......*the doctor told me NO he is
>>not allergic to the antibiotic*........I found some wonderful homeopathic
>>remedy that cleared it up in days........(But I do recall I made an
>>appointment to appease CPS and when I called to cancel it they were rather
>>upset and kept calling me to reschedule or just to come in when I
>>could.......(I wonder if CPS was laying in wait)
>>
>>So I did not take him back.......more letters....My attorney all this time
>>had been calling them, stating that I did not have to treat my babe with
>>allopathic remedies ......to no avail........
>>
>>It ended after I sent them a letter politely asking them to F%$K off
>>
>>Do I sound paranoid?
>>You bet!
>>Can you imagine receiving letters that someone is going to take your baby
>>because you do not want him to receive any more antibiotics that cause "red
>>blistery butt" and puking....who no longer has an ear infection?
>>
>>ALL this for an ear infection and because I had my baby in the loving
>>environment of my family, teach my children life in the safety and warmth
>>of our home, with a bare milk filled breast thrown in!
>>
>>Please go and visit www.CPSWatch.com
>>
>>Love POD
>>
>>PS by emotively rate do you mean losing your kids without emotion *wah* (is
>>this possible)

Ron and Stephanie

CPS is a load of.... and we all can figure out what. My dh is head of
security for the local CPS. The things they pull there are horrible. I also
was victimized (7 years ago) by the system on unfounded charges, and now
live every day in the fear that just one little slip will bring CPS back to
my door. This was one of my biggest fears when it came to homeschooling. Now
I have more knowledge on the system, and I have learned when to say STOP.
There are lines that the state should not cross, but if YOU don't know those
lines... It is a terrible situation, and I know what it is like to be on the
firing line...
Stephanie

Susan and Theodore

Well hello Stephanie yes I know one little mistake!
It is such a horrible way to live!
And 7 years and still you are frightened
Mine was unfounded as well
But here I still sit wondering if someone is going to knock
Love POD........know the "lines" it is essential

You wrote..........

I also was victimized (7 years ago) by the system on unfounded charges, and now
>live every day in the fear that just one little slip will bring CPS back to
>my door. This was one of my biggest fears when it came to homeschooling. Now
>I have more knowledge on the system, and I have learned when to say STOP.
>There are lines that the state should not cross, but if YOU don't know those
>lines... It is a terrible situation, and I know what it is like to be on the
>firing line...
>Stephanie
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>

[email protected]

I haven't posted on here in a long time but I do try to read many of the
posts from others. It is so maddening and ironic that in a society that
gives lip service to tolerance and diversity, there is still the mentality
that there is ONE way to do things and that is whatever the majority are
doing at any given time. U.S. history is filled with examples of the
majority going in the wrong direction in various issues, but the tendency is
to always think that is in the past and NOW we have it right.
It is frightening that the state is willing to act so quickly on the
statements of one person without having to verify that that statement is
true. I know there are times that CPS is justified in removing children.
But it seems that many times personal egos get involved and they don't want
to back down from the position they've taken.
Susan, I'm glad it didn't go even further for you and I can definitely
understand why it scared you so much. With the fear, I know there must be
such an anger, the feeling of how dare they intrude into your life and
threaten to take your child? I hope you never have to go through anything
like that again.

Lucy in Calif.

Ron and Stephanie

I was looking for Patricia's email addy, and found something, but do not
think it would work. Do you know it? Stephanie

Susan and Theodore

I think that she was getting too much mail that is why it is not there but
her number and address is!
Love POD

At 12:16 PM 5/12/00 -0400, you wrote:
>I was looking for Patricia's email addy, and found something, but do not
>think it would work. Do you know it? Stephanie

libbygirl

Yes Gus,
I second that request. It does seem to me, uninformed as I am, that the CPS
are being unbelievably cruel and high-handed if it is "only" a HS issue...??
Please inform me further as my instinctive reaction IS to give support but I
too would like some more clarification.


Namaste
Brooke