Marjorie Kirk

Last night the kids and I were having a pre-bedtime snack, and they started
asking me all kinds of questions about school: What were the subjects
taught? How long were classes? How long was recess? What is it like
riding the bus? Then one of them said that he would like to try school for
a week to see what it was like. As we talked more about that possibility
they all decided they would like to check it out. I'm feeling very anxious
about the idea of them going, for a variety of reasons and was hoping to get
some other perspectives on this. I'm sure there's Someone on the list
willing to share their thoughts ;>)

Here are some of the thoughts whirling around in my head:
If they want to go to school, am I failing as an unschooling mom? Are they
not challenged? Are we not doing enough fun and interesting stuff?
I'm in some ways looking forward to a week "off", which makes me feel very
guilty.
They may try it and realize how lucky they are to be home.
They may like it, then do I allow them to stay, even if I think it's not in
their best interest?
They may feel "stupid" since we have not been following the traditional
school schedule and I'm sure there are areas where they would be "behind".
What if some want to stay, and some come back home. How hard would it be to
accomodate such different schedules?
I'm mostly worried about my oldest, because he is very sensitive and has
some problems with both social skills and fine motor control, and I'm
worried that school could be especially hard on him. How long would it take
to "deschool' from one week of school?

We leave on vacation on Saturday, then the next week is Thanksgiving, so if
they are going to go, it won't be until December. I have several weeks to
work this all out in my head. I would appreciate any input.

Marjorie

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/11/03 8:54:49 AM, mkirk@... writes:

<< Last night the kids and I were having a pre-bedtime snack, and they started

asking me all kinds of questions about school: What were the subjects

taught? How long were classes? How long was recess? What is it like

riding the bus? Then one of them said that he would like to try school for

a week to see what it was like. >>

Holly and I just went through that. She said she'd like to go next year, at
least for a while, "just for the experience."

Last week I drove her slowly by two schools while kids were outside. One was
a Catholic mid-school. We actually turned and parked until they all went in
after lunch. We discussed the uniforms and the lining up and the reality that
not all the kids were having fun out there, some were alone or afraid to go
back in or wishing they could be at home. I wasn't pushing anti-school stuff,
just sharing observations with her. Then on the way to the post office, kids
were out at a public elementary. I went the longest way around so we she
could check them out. I said "being on the playground is a very small part of
their day," and she said impatiently, "I know."

She said she might ask her friend (a neighbor two blocks up) to show her her
books and homework sometime and that might help satisfy her urge.

I told Holly I would hate it if the other kids were mean to her because she
couldn't write as fast as they could or something.

Last night my husband and I were out driving kidlessly and I talked to him
about that. He said she probably wouldn't last long, and I said maybe long
enough for them to make her think she wasn't too bright. But we convinced
ourselves that it wouldn't take her long to figure out the few things she wouldn't
understand (like where to put her name on the paper, and looking at other kids'
work could get her in trouble; or math notation). He figured she'd only need
to be reminded that she would have three hours straight of not getting to eat
or walk around, and she'd be hapy to stay home.

His one concern was that she's never been registered, and if she goes to
school they might care. I wasn't worried. I said if she decided to quit I could
just give them a filled-out copy of a state registration form and they'd be
happy. (That doesn't mean I'd have to mail the original to the state.)

We're open to her trying it. I hope she changes her mind, but if she gets to
be 17 and never tried it, she might really wish she had.

<<If they want to go to school, am I failing as an unschooling mom?>>

Probably not.

<<Are they not challenged? >>

? Maybe they wouldn't be challenged at school either, except for the
challenges to their patience and boredom-stamina.

<<Are we not doing enough fun and interesting stuff?>>

They might imagine school is fun and interesting. Maybe go to some
school-field-trip places and follow along near a school group. That might cure them
some too! That group probably will be goofing off, being told to be quiet and
listen, totally missing the zoo/museum/play for the most part out of the joy of
being with the other kids outside the classroom. That's a valuable thing to
see.

<<I'm in some ways looking forward to a week "off", which makes me feel very

guilty.>>

How much "off" time will be spent in school prep and homework help and all
that?

If you haven't read this, or read it since they said "school," you might want
to look again:

http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice

One of your considerations would be how much you as a parent would aid and
abet the teachers.

<< How long would it take

to "deschool' from one week of school?>>

About a minute if he really wanted to come home.
A small part of him might harbor feelings for years, if they shame or scare
him. Some kids handle that better than others.

<<We leave on vacation on Saturday, then the next week is Thanksgiving, so if

they are going to go, it won't be until December. >>

NOOO, no no...

I'd tell them to wait until the beginning of next school year for several
reasons. December will be just before midterms. They can't do themselves or
anyone else any good getting there just before review and test time. And the
school can't give them credit for the session without transfer from another
school anyway.

<<I have several weeks to

work this all out in my head. >>

I think you should consider that you have several months.

If they start next fall, they're just a few more among the new kids from
other schools. If they start in December, the other kids will already all know
each other, the routine, the building, etc. At the beginning of school lots of
kids are learning who's who and where's what.

Sandra

Marjorie Kirk

I wrote:

> << How long would it take
>
> to "deschool' from one week of school?>>



And sandra replied:
> About a minute if he really wanted to come home.
> A small part of him might harbor feelings for years, if they shame or
scare
> him. Some kids handle that better than others.
>

This, I think, is my biggest concern. That they may be made to feel "less
than" for their differences, rather than special, like they are.

I also think you are right about not starting school in the middle of
everything. If they don't change their minds, I think January, after the
winter break, would be the soonest we would try it.

Thanks,
marjorie

Tia Leschke

>
>I also think you are right about not starting school in the middle of
>everything. If they don't change their minds, I think January, after the
>winter break, would be the soonest we would try it.

My granddaughter did a week in grade two about that time of year. She got
the perfect teacher for it (in my daughter's and my minds). This woman was
a b*tch. She wouldn't let Skye call her mother when she wasn't happy there,
even though Heather had told her that she could. Even when she came with a
note, the teacher wouldn't let her call.
Her take on school after a week? "School is boring. My teacher is mean. I
liked lunch and recess."

I think a lot of homeschooled kids want to try school just so they'll have
a better idea what their schooled friends are talking about. Letting them
dip their toes into that will usually be enough.
Tia

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/11/03 11:53:18 AM, mkirk@... writes:

<< I also think you are right about not starting school in the middle of

everything. If they don't change their minds, I think January, after the

winter break, would be the soonest we would try it. >>

Depending what grades they would be in, that might not work well either.
They might not be able to "promote" on half a year's work. Schools are crazy.
They like to think every year counts. <bwg>

Yet they have social-promotion requirements.

So even though there's only probably a three-year window in which they can
juggle kids, I'd hate to see a kid "held back a grade" when he'd only wanted to
try school out for his own curiosity.

Also if Holly DOES go to school I absolutely plan to write to the principal
and teachers and say that it is NOT my choice for her to be there, but they
have the opportunity to show her how cool school can be and how much they really
care about her as an individual.

Then when she says "I'm going home now," nobody will be surprised, and it
will be clearly their fault or not keeping her fascinated. <bwg>

Sandra

Aimee

<<Here are some of the thoughts whirling around in my
head:
If they want to go to school, am I failing as an
unschooling mom? Are
they
not challenged? Are we not doing enough fun and
interesting stuff?>>

From what you've said, I don't think so! It seems to
me that they were interested in something, they feel
free to bring that to ya and have a thoughtful,
probing conversation about it, and they feel free to
experiment and learn more about it. The fact that
it's about school might give you the impression that
unschooling is not working? But from what I see it's
proof that it is!

Look at it differently, I say.

Now, about them actually going to school, I don't have
any advice on how to get them in and outta there.

But I would definitely involve them in the whole
process of finding out how to enroll them, how hard it
would be to take them out when they want to leave,
etc.
Are there legal issues to take into account?
Personally, I don't want "the man" to even know that I
have a school age child!

Talking to them about how school doesn't really work a
week at a time and that it might be tough to do that
and why, might give them second thoughts. If that
doesn't turn out to be an issue, than a week of
school might be a great learning experience, just like
anything else in unschooling.

I don't envy you the process, but I think it's kinda
cool. See what happens when we give our kids freedom,
they do things we'd never do! That's scary, but it's
part of respecting them as individuals.

Good luck! Keep us updated?

~Aimee

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/11/2003 5:36:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
aimeel73@... writes:
Talking to them about how school doesn't really work a
week at a time and that it might be tough to do that
and why, might give them second thoughts. If that
doesn't turn out to be an issue, than a week of
school might be a great learning experience, just like
anything else in unschooling.
**************************************
Have any of you thought of enrolling the kids in a different sort of group
class? Like an art class for kids, or music, or band? I know in the past, when
my kids were pretty little, they got their school "fix" from going to CCD and
sitting at desks with workbooks, having holiday parties there, etc. It gave
them a taste of "school" without being enrolled in an actual school.

Nancy B. in WV


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marjorie Kirk

I said:
> If they want to go to school, am I failing as an
> unschooling mom? Are
> they
> not challenged? Are we not doing enough fun and
> interesting stuff?>>


Aimee wrote:
> From what you've said, I don't think so! It seems to
> me that they were interested in something, they feel
> free to bring that to ya and have a thoughtful,
> probing conversation about it, and they feel free to
> experiment and learn more about it. The fact that
> it's about school might give you the impression that
> unschooling is not working? But from what I see it's
> proof that it is!
>
> Look at it differently, I say.



Back to me again:
I like this. Thanks. I guess if they said they really wanted to try
horseback riding lessons, or fencing classes I wouldn't automatically assume
I was failing them by not supplying them with enough fun and interesting
things to do. I guess since it's about school I tend to take it personally.
I AM glad they feel comfortable discussing it and exploring the idea of
school.

Aimee:
> Now, about them actually going to school, I don't have
> any advice on how to get them in and outta there.
>
> But I would definitely involve them in the whole
> process of finding out how to enroll them, how hard it
> would be to take them out when they want to leave,
> etc.
> Are there legal issues to take into account?
> Personally, I don't want "the man" to even know that I
> have a school age child!


Me again:

In Ohio we notify every year. "The man" knows! I could enroll
them(although I don't know exactly what that involves), then whenever they
are ready to come home again I just re-notify, which in this case would mean
printing out the same letter I've used for the last five years (with a new
date on it of course) and turning it in to the Superintendent's office.

Aimee:
> Talking to them about how school doesn't really work a
> week at a time and that it might be tough to do that
> and why, might give them second thoughts. If that
> doesn't turn out to be an issue, than a week of
> school might be a great learning experience, just like
> anything else in unschooling.

Me:
I am hoping that if they do decide to pursue this learning experience, a
week is enough.


Aimee:
> I don't envy you the process, but I think it's kinda
> cool. See what happens when we give our kids freedom,
> they do things we'd never do! That's scary, but it's
> part of respecting them as individuals.
>
> Good luck! Keep us updated?
>
> ~Aimee
>

Me:Thanks!

Marjorie Kirk

> Have any of you thought of enrolling the kids in a different sort of group
> class? Like an art class for kids, or music, or band? I know in the
past, when
> my kids were pretty little, they got their school "fix" from going to CCD
and
> sitting at desks with workbooks, having holiday parties there, etc. It
gave
> them a taste of "school" without being enrolled in an actual school.
>
> Nancy B. in WV
>
Thanks for the suggestion, but we already do all kinds of classes: chess,
drama, ballet, etc.

I think they are just really curious about school.

Marjorie

Betsy

**Last night my husband and I were out driving kidlessly and I talked to
him
about that. He said she probably wouldn't last long, and I said maybe long
enough for them to make her think she wasn't too bright.**


I always seem to want to prescribe works of fiction to make a point to
people. (I can't be sure if I'm promoting "information" or "propaganda".
Is the difference caused by my intentions?)

So, a couple of books to consider, about homeschooled girls who try school:

_Libby on Wednesday_ is an interesting book about a middle school aged
girl being homeschooled by eccentric aunts and uncles. Her absent mom
presses for her to start attending school. On the way to the
predictible pro-school ending her experiences as a new girl in school
being treated very poorly by the other kids seem quite realistic to me.
I think the author is Zilpha K-something Snyder.

_Stargirl_ is a very intriguing book about an open and loving
homeschooled teen who stands out in both good and bad ways when she
attends high school.

Betsy

Aimee

<<Have any of you thought of enrolling the kids in a
different sort of
group
class? Like an art class for kids, or music, or band?
>>

Oh yah, that reminds me! Here we have Saturday morning
classes for kids at the community college. They have
science, computer, and art classes. They might want
to try something like that, just one day a week, for a
few weeks.

~Aimee

Aimee

marjorie wrote:

<<I like this. Thanks. I guess if they said they
really wanted to try
horseback riding lessons, or fencing classes I
wouldn't automatically
assume
I was failing them by not supplying them with enough
fun and
interesting
things to do.>>

Exactly. From what I remember about your post, (sorry,
I delete) is that they want the social and "normal"
parts of school. I'm wondering how old your
child(ren) is/are, and how many unschooling kids
think about school at a certain age range for those
reasons. Hopefully, when they see the trade offs
involved they can see for themselves why you kept them
outta there! lol

<<I guess since it's about school I tend to take it
personally.
I AM glad they feel comfortable discussing it and
exploring the idea of
school.>>

And it seems like you stayed open to hear them even
tho you were uncomfortable, and I'll pat ya on the
back for that, that's tough to do!

Glad to hear the legal stuff isn't complicated.


Again, good luck!

~Aimee

Scott Bieser

Marjorie,

Here's a link you can show your kids so they can see some of the fun
activities they're missing out of by not going to the government school:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/990598.asp




--Scott Bieser
proprietor, LibertyArtworx.com
Professional Graphics and Personal Opinions
http://www.libertyartworx.com
Buy stuff with my art on it!
http://www.cafepress.com/libartworx

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Marjorie Kirk

Thanks for the link. I've seen it, but my kids haven't and won't. That's
truly repulsive, and much too scary for my kids.

marjorie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Bieser" <sbieser@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Help! My kids want to try school!


> Marjorie,
>
> Here's a link you can show your kids so they can see some of the fun
> activities they're missing out of by not going to the government school:
>
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/990598.asp
>
>
>
>
> --Scott Bieser
> proprietor, LibertyArtworx.com
> Professional Graphics and Personal Opinions
> http://www.libertyartworx.com
> Buy stuff with my art on it!
> http://www.cafepress.com/libartworx
>
> ----------
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 11/3/2003
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
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http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Marjorie Kirk

>
> And it seems like you stayed open to hear them even
> tho you were uncomfortable, and I'll pat ya on the
> back for that, that's tough to do!
>
> Glad to hear the legal stuff isn't complicated.
>
>
> Again, good luck!
>
> ~Aimee
>


Thanks for the moral support. I really did feel uncomfortable talking about
sending them to school.. I felt like saying "Wouldn't you guys rather talk
about sex? Politics? Religion maybe?" My oldest(11) said yesterday he's
over it. He doesn't really want to try it after all. Who knows what will
happen with the other two in the next few months?

Marjorie

Aimee

<< I felt like saying "Wouldn't you guys rather
talk
about sex? Politics? Religion maybe?" >>

This cracked me up! Sounds exactly like something I
*would* say...lol


~Aimee

Scott Bieser

At 08:08 PM 11/12/2003, Marjorie Kirk wrote:

>Thanks for the link. I've seen it, but my kids haven't and won't. That's
>truly repulsive, and much too scary for my kids.

Each parent decides what aspects of reality to protect their children from
until they're ready. I showed this one to Zeke (13) and he looked a bit
stunned, then shook his head. We talked a bit about rights and the Drug War
and what it means when we abandon rights in pursuit of protecting ourselves
from our own bad decisions.

Would I show it to Ian (7)? Nah, he's not ready for that.



--Scott Bieser
proprietor, LibertyArtworx.com
Professional Graphics and Personal Opinions
http://www.libertyartworx.com
Buy stuff with my art on it!
http://www.cafepress.com/libartworx

----------


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