Instincts and The Bottomless Candy Bowl
Heidi
The threads on limits and showering and chores, along with the recent
post about following one's instincts and not always coming to "the
experts"... have struck a chord with me.
Recently, I put out a bowl with Halloween candy in it, though having
such an item in my house is counter-instinctive to me. My whole adult
life, I've chosen whole foods and scratch cooking and healthy stuff.
Haven't outlawed candy or any other food, but I've always kept a
fruit bowl and had things like cheese and crackers or ants on a log
for snacks. Putting out a bowl full of candy for whomever to have
whenever isn't something I would naturally, normally do.
And the reason was, I wondered how kids who hadn't been limited (i.e.
candy has never been outlawed, I just don't usually buy it) don't
seem able to ignore a candy bowl at my friend's house and gobble
their Halloween candy in a day or two. The advice here was to make it
truly unlimited, all the time. They'd eventually get tired of it, and
the candy would sit. I believe this would happen IF I actually
decided to keep a candy bowl around all the time. I may not.
And here's why. Well, there are lots of reasons.
1) we live out in the country. With the fruit bowl, when the fruit is
gone, we don't get more until the next trip to the grocery
store...twice a month to the big city; once a week to the town, but
we go to the library, not the expensive grocery store there, unless
there's something on sale that I need to restock. If I only replenish
the fruit when I'm grocery shopping, I won't be refilling the candy
bowl more often.
2) we are on a tight budget right now. It was mentioned, once the
kids are satiated, they won't eat the candy all gone and it won't be
expensive. Well...my budget may not allow for the time to pass while
the kids become satiated. Life in this family right now is: we are
cutting back, especially in areas where personal choices make the
most difference (I HAVE to pay the credit cards; I DON'T HAVE to buy
foods that lack nutrition)
3) I kind of like a concept I read in The McDougall Plan (a vegan
lifestyle book)...where it is explained that in most cultures, people
eat very simply on a day to day basis, and have two or three big
community feasts per year. The author was saying that most cultures
eat no meat except on feast days. I don't know about THAT, but the
concept stuck with me. If you keep things simple on a daily basis,
when a "feast day" comes, all the goodies that go with it are all the
better for not having been around every day. Like going without rich
foods for the Lenten Season, and breaking that fast with an Easter
meal...how much better that food will be, because it's been put away
for a season.
It isn't my plan to serve rice and veggies and only break out the
Yummy Stuff at Christmas and Easter, but what is so wrong with how we
were doing candy around here, before? That is, once a week, the kids
get allowance and no limits on what they spend it on. And they have
always spent it on either candy or Pokemon cards. (I'm also not
saying that anyone here thought it was wrong...just thinking out
loud, because I've changed some very fundamental things in the house
and need to think about it)
4) thinking about it, their eating all their Halloween candy in a day
or two doesn't bother me. It goes along with that feast mentality:
they don't get it every day, so when they do, they consume it. It's a
treat to them.
so, back to Instincts. The first thing that came to mind, reading the
post about following one's instincts without always coming to the
experts, was that child rearing method that puts babies on a feeding
schedule and adamantly opposes bringing them to bed with you, etc. So
counter-intuitive. A mother's instinct is to have the baby nearby all
the time, and to feed the baby when he needs feeding. Some bonehead
comes along and says "No! You'll have spoiled kids if you feed on
demand and taking them to bed with you is bad for your marriage" and
people bought into that system so completely, some mothers were even
denying food to their babies who were genuinely hungry,
because "there is no feeding scheduled for another half hour"...erg.
Even so, my instinct about having fruit and veggie sticks and
crackers around for snacking, and let candy come and go as it does
without providing an endless supply, is appropriate. In Heidi's
House, there isn't a candy bowl, any more than there is a level of
clutter that you have to make a path in order to get around. I prefer
to keep the clutter off the floor (though the tables and counters
often...er, always...have stuff on them) and so, I keep the floor
decluttered.
I prefer not to have lots of sugary stuff around all the time, and so
I don't buy candy and put it out in a bowl.
Last year, at Christmas time, I made my usual batches of homemade
Almond Roca and had some out in a dish. The kids tentatively
approached, and I said "Have some. Have as much as you want"...you
should have seen the looks on their faces. Disbelief faded into
happiness. Actually, I felt pretty bad that their first response was
disbelief. I'd been so controlling, that I'd actually put out my
famous homemade toffee in a dish when there was no company coming
over, and say "Don't touch" to my kids! I'll not be going back to
that way of doing things, ever.
OTOH, why go against my instincts about candy? I've never provided an
endless supply; I'm a Granola at heart, and think less candy is
better, though I don't say no when they buy candy w/their allowance
money...
Well...that's where my thoughts have been the last couple of days.
Pretty much just thinking out loud and learning to incorporate these
ideas in our life.
blessings, HeidiC
post about following one's instincts and not always coming to "the
experts"... have struck a chord with me.
Recently, I put out a bowl with Halloween candy in it, though having
such an item in my house is counter-instinctive to me. My whole adult
life, I've chosen whole foods and scratch cooking and healthy stuff.
Haven't outlawed candy or any other food, but I've always kept a
fruit bowl and had things like cheese and crackers or ants on a log
for snacks. Putting out a bowl full of candy for whomever to have
whenever isn't something I would naturally, normally do.
And the reason was, I wondered how kids who hadn't been limited (i.e.
candy has never been outlawed, I just don't usually buy it) don't
seem able to ignore a candy bowl at my friend's house and gobble
their Halloween candy in a day or two. The advice here was to make it
truly unlimited, all the time. They'd eventually get tired of it, and
the candy would sit. I believe this would happen IF I actually
decided to keep a candy bowl around all the time. I may not.
And here's why. Well, there are lots of reasons.
1) we live out in the country. With the fruit bowl, when the fruit is
gone, we don't get more until the next trip to the grocery
store...twice a month to the big city; once a week to the town, but
we go to the library, not the expensive grocery store there, unless
there's something on sale that I need to restock. If I only replenish
the fruit when I'm grocery shopping, I won't be refilling the candy
bowl more often.
2) we are on a tight budget right now. It was mentioned, once the
kids are satiated, they won't eat the candy all gone and it won't be
expensive. Well...my budget may not allow for the time to pass while
the kids become satiated. Life in this family right now is: we are
cutting back, especially in areas where personal choices make the
most difference (I HAVE to pay the credit cards; I DON'T HAVE to buy
foods that lack nutrition)
3) I kind of like a concept I read in The McDougall Plan (a vegan
lifestyle book)...where it is explained that in most cultures, people
eat very simply on a day to day basis, and have two or three big
community feasts per year. The author was saying that most cultures
eat no meat except on feast days. I don't know about THAT, but the
concept stuck with me. If you keep things simple on a daily basis,
when a "feast day" comes, all the goodies that go with it are all the
better for not having been around every day. Like going without rich
foods for the Lenten Season, and breaking that fast with an Easter
meal...how much better that food will be, because it's been put away
for a season.
It isn't my plan to serve rice and veggies and only break out the
Yummy Stuff at Christmas and Easter, but what is so wrong with how we
were doing candy around here, before? That is, once a week, the kids
get allowance and no limits on what they spend it on. And they have
always spent it on either candy or Pokemon cards. (I'm also not
saying that anyone here thought it was wrong...just thinking out
loud, because I've changed some very fundamental things in the house
and need to think about it)
4) thinking about it, their eating all their Halloween candy in a day
or two doesn't bother me. It goes along with that feast mentality:
they don't get it every day, so when they do, they consume it. It's a
treat to them.
so, back to Instincts. The first thing that came to mind, reading the
post about following one's instincts without always coming to the
experts, was that child rearing method that puts babies on a feeding
schedule and adamantly opposes bringing them to bed with you, etc. So
counter-intuitive. A mother's instinct is to have the baby nearby all
the time, and to feed the baby when he needs feeding. Some bonehead
comes along and says "No! You'll have spoiled kids if you feed on
demand and taking them to bed with you is bad for your marriage" and
people bought into that system so completely, some mothers were even
denying food to their babies who were genuinely hungry,
because "there is no feeding scheduled for another half hour"...erg.
Even so, my instinct about having fruit and veggie sticks and
crackers around for snacking, and let candy come and go as it does
without providing an endless supply, is appropriate. In Heidi's
House, there isn't a candy bowl, any more than there is a level of
clutter that you have to make a path in order to get around. I prefer
to keep the clutter off the floor (though the tables and counters
often...er, always...have stuff on them) and so, I keep the floor
decluttered.
I prefer not to have lots of sugary stuff around all the time, and so
I don't buy candy and put it out in a bowl.
Last year, at Christmas time, I made my usual batches of homemade
Almond Roca and had some out in a dish. The kids tentatively
approached, and I said "Have some. Have as much as you want"...you
should have seen the looks on their faces. Disbelief faded into
happiness. Actually, I felt pretty bad that their first response was
disbelief. I'd been so controlling, that I'd actually put out my
famous homemade toffee in a dish when there was no company coming
over, and say "Don't touch" to my kids! I'll not be going back to
that way of doing things, ever.
OTOH, why go against my instincts about candy? I've never provided an
endless supply; I'm a Granola at heart, and think less candy is
better, though I don't say no when they buy candy w/their allowance
money...
Well...that's where my thoughts have been the last couple of days.
Pretty much just thinking out loud and learning to incorporate these
ideas in our life.
blessings, HeidiC
catherine aceto
Hmm....my initial responses:
Is your instinct not to put out candy the same instinct that led you to put out homemade toffee and tell you kids they could not eat it? While you describe that as "controlling" and something that you would never go back to -- is the limit on candy in general different? I'm genuinely asking.
As one who took years to unlearn the effects of being limited as to candy (and I think my parents would have described the limits more as being caused by budget than by philosophy -- they were not controlling people in general), I would SOO have preferred to have had a limitless candy bowl (even with dollar store candy) rather than having had it ingrained into my psyche the idea that candy is scarce and wonderful and must be all eaten whenever presented. I am just now managing to have a bite of something sweet and leave the rest - a skill that my daughter, thankfully, has by instinct and has never lost. It took me a long time to realize that it had nothing to do with "will power" -- it had to do with "feast or famine" type instincts.
Obviously, you should find and do what works for you -- but since you put it out there, these are my thoughts.
-Cat
Is your instinct not to put out candy the same instinct that led you to put out homemade toffee and tell you kids they could not eat it? While you describe that as "controlling" and something that you would never go back to -- is the limit on candy in general different? I'm genuinely asking.
As one who took years to unlearn the effects of being limited as to candy (and I think my parents would have described the limits more as being caused by budget than by philosophy -- they were not controlling people in general), I would SOO have preferred to have had a limitless candy bowl (even with dollar store candy) rather than having had it ingrained into my psyche the idea that candy is scarce and wonderful and must be all eaten whenever presented. I am just now managing to have a bite of something sweet and leave the rest - a skill that my daughter, thankfully, has by instinct and has never lost. It took me a long time to realize that it had nothing to do with "will power" -- it had to do with "feast or famine" type instincts.
Obviously, you should find and do what works for you -- but since you put it out there, these are my thoughts.
-Cat
----- Original Message -----
From: Heidi
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 9:11 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Instincts and The Bottomless Candy Bowl
The threads on limits and showering and chores, along with the recent
post about following one's instincts and not always coming to "the
experts"... have struck a chord with me.
Recently, I put out a bowl with Halloween candy in it, though having
such an item in my house is counter-instinctive to me. My whole adult
life, I've chosen whole foods and scratch cooking and healthy stuff.
Haven't outlawed candy or any other food, but I've always kept a
fruit bowl and had things like cheese and crackers or ants on a log
for snacks. Putting out a bowl full of candy for whomever to have
whenever isn't something I would naturally, normally do.
And the reason was, I wondered how kids who hadn't been limited (i.e.
candy has never been outlawed, I just don't usually buy it) don't
seem able to ignore a candy bowl at my friend's house and gobble
their Halloween candy in a day or two. The advice here was to make it
truly unlimited, all the time. They'd eventually get tired of it, and
the candy would sit. I believe this would happen IF I actually
decided to keep a candy bowl around all the time. I may not.
And here's why. Well, there are lots of reasons.
1) we live out in the country. With the fruit bowl, when the fruit is
gone, we don't get more until the next trip to the grocery
store...twice a month to the big city; once a week to the town, but
we go to the library, not the expensive grocery store there, unless
there's something on sale that I need to restock. If I only replenish
the fruit when I'm grocery shopping, I won't be refilling the candy
bowl more often.
2) we are on a tight budget right now. It was mentioned, once the
kids are satiated, they won't eat the candy all gone and it won't be
expensive. Well...my budget may not allow for the time to pass while
the kids become satiated. Life in this family right now is: we are
cutting back, especially in areas where personal choices make the
most difference (I HAVE to pay the credit cards; I DON'T HAVE to buy
foods that lack nutrition)
3) I kind of like a concept I read in The McDougall Plan (a vegan
lifestyle book)...where it is explained that in most cultures, people
eat very simply on a day to day basis, and have two or three big
community feasts per year. The author was saying that most cultures
eat no meat except on feast days. I don't know about THAT, but the
concept stuck with me. If you keep things simple on a daily basis,
when a "feast day" comes, all the goodies that go with it are all the
better for not having been around every day. Like going without rich
foods for the Lenten Season, and breaking that fast with an Easter
meal...how much better that food will be, because it's been put away
for a season.
It isn't my plan to serve rice and veggies and only break out the
Yummy Stuff at Christmas and Easter, but what is so wrong with how we
were doing candy around here, before? That is, once a week, the kids
get allowance and no limits on what they spend it on. And they have
always spent it on either candy or Pokemon cards. (I'm also not
saying that anyone here thought it was wrong...just thinking out
loud, because I've changed some very fundamental things in the house
and need to think about it)
4) thinking about it, their eating all their Halloween candy in a day
or two doesn't bother me. It goes along with that feast mentality:
they don't get it every day, so when they do, they consume it. It's a
treat to them.
so, back to Instincts. The first thing that came to mind, reading the
post about following one's instincts without always coming to the
experts, was that child rearing method that puts babies on a feeding
schedule and adamantly opposes bringing them to bed with you, etc. So
counter-intuitive. A mother's instinct is to have the baby nearby all
the time, and to feed the baby when he needs feeding. Some bonehead
comes along and says "No! You'll have spoiled kids if you feed on
demand and taking them to bed with you is bad for your marriage" and
people bought into that system so completely, some mothers were even
denying food to their babies who were genuinely hungry,
because "there is no feeding scheduled for another half hour"...erg.
Even so, my instinct about having fruit and veggie sticks and
crackers around for snacking, and let candy come and go as it does
without providing an endless supply, is appropriate. In Heidi's
House, there isn't a candy bowl, any more than there is a level of
clutter that you have to make a path in order to get around. I prefer
to keep the clutter off the floor (though the tables and counters
often...er, always...have stuff on them) and so, I keep the floor
decluttered.
I prefer not to have lots of sugary stuff around all the time, and so
I don't buy candy and put it out in a bowl.
Last year, at Christmas time, I made my usual batches of homemade
Almond Roca and had some out in a dish. The kids tentatively
approached, and I said "Have some. Have as much as you want"...you
should have seen the looks on their faces. Disbelief faded into
happiness. Actually, I felt pretty bad that their first response was
disbelief. I'd been so controlling, that I'd actually put out my
famous homemade toffee in a dish when there was no company coming
over, and say "Don't touch" to my kids! I'll not be going back to
that way of doing things, ever.
OTOH, why go against my instincts about candy? I've never provided an
endless supply; I'm a Granola at heart, and think less candy is
better, though I don't say no when they buy candy w/their allowance
money...
Well...that's where my thoughts have been the last couple of days.
Pretty much just thinking out loud and learning to incorporate these
ideas in our life.
blessings, HeidiC
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Elizabeth Roberts
I have noticed with myself that if I buy three or four of those very large bars of chocolate, and one of two smaller bars, I might eat one or both of the smaller bars right away but the other bars will sit for quite awhile before I think to have any, and I'm more likely to only eat a small portion. My children have proven to be the same way. If they think it's only going to be just that amount available they will go nuts and eat it all at once. If there is plenty that is available, they tend to search our their favorite snacks of apples, cheese or popcorn.
Elizabeth in MA
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pam sorooshian
On Nov 10, 2003, at 6:25 AM, catherine aceto wrote:
The thing I keep thinking about is that the kids WILL have the
equivalent of a bottomless candy bowl when they're old enough to be out
from under parental control and have their own money. Its called "the
world." I can stop in and buy all the candy I want any time I want it
now. That's a reality that those people Heidi talked about who only
"feast" once in a while didn't have to deal with - they didn't have the
opportunity to have candy every time they turned around. Heidi you can
make the world seem like that in her own house, for a few years, but it
won't last long. I'd suggest taking a slightly more realistic view of
the real world we live in now.
On the other hand, we don't have a candy bowl sitting out all the time
- I don't think anybody thought that was some kind of requirement -
just one way of loosening up.
I'm so happy that none of my kids has my urge to want to be eating
sweets all the time.
that I don't have to eat something now just because it is available,
that if I really want it later, I'm a grownup and I can just go BUY it
for myself. In fact, that IS often my frame of mind - like I'm
indulging myself because I can. Feels a little like rebellion. Hmmm.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> As one who took years to unlearn the effects of being limited as toMe too.
> candy (and I think my parents would have described the limits more as
> being caused by budget than by philosophy -- they were not controlling
> people in general), I would SOO have preferred to have had a limitless
> candy bowl (even with dollar store candy) rather than having had it
> ingrained into my psyche the idea that candy is scarce and wonderful
> and must be all eaten whenever presented.
The thing I keep thinking about is that the kids WILL have the
equivalent of a bottomless candy bowl when they're old enough to be out
from under parental control and have their own money. Its called "the
world." I can stop in and buy all the candy I want any time I want it
now. That's a reality that those people Heidi talked about who only
"feast" once in a while didn't have to deal with - they didn't have the
opportunity to have candy every time they turned around. Heidi you can
make the world seem like that in her own house, for a few years, but it
won't last long. I'd suggest taking a slightly more realistic view of
the real world we live in now.
On the other hand, we don't have a candy bowl sitting out all the time
- I don't think anybody thought that was some kind of requirement -
just one way of loosening up.
I'm so happy that none of my kids has my urge to want to be eating
sweets all the time.
> I am just now managing to have a bite of something sweet and leaveI guess it might be that for me too - I find myself reminding myself
> the rest - a skill that my daughter, thankfully, has by instinct and
> has never lost. It took me a long time to realize that it had nothing
> to do with "will power" -- it had to do with "feast or famine" type
> instincts.
that I don't have to eat something now just because it is available,
that if I really want it later, I'm a grownup and I can just go BUY it
for myself. In fact, that IS often my frame of mind - like I'm
indulging myself because I can. Feels a little like rebellion. Hmmm.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Scott Bieser
At 08:58 AM 11/10/2003, pam sorooshian wrote:
don't limit how much they can eat at one time. They limit themselves,
gradually working their way through over a period of weeks. And last August
I found Ian's Halloween bag from the previous year, left forgotten in a
corner, that still had about 1/4 of the candy left in it.
Hey, maybe there's something to this trust-your-kids business after all! ;-)
--Scott Bieser
aka Pope Athos V, Co-Creator of the Longest Hair, Keeper of the Spare House
Keys, Acolyte of the Unthinkable Hunch, Certified Visionary Philosopher,
Signatory to the Covenant of Unanimous Consent, HMSH,
Polytheo-Onometamystichod, Eris Esoteric.
----------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I'm so happy that none of my kids has my urge to want to be eatingAt Halloween my sons come home with a bounty of candy in their bags, and I
>sweets all the time.
don't limit how much they can eat at one time. They limit themselves,
gradually working their way through over a period of weeks. And last August
I found Ian's Halloween bag from the previous year, left forgotten in a
corner, that still had about 1/4 of the candy left in it.
Hey, maybe there's something to this trust-your-kids business after all! ;-)
--Scott Bieser
aka Pope Athos V, Co-Creator of the Longest Hair, Keeper of the Spare House
Keys, Acolyte of the Unthinkable Hunch, Certified Visionary Philosopher,
Signatory to the Covenant of Unanimous Consent, HMSH,
Polytheo-Onometamystichod, Eris Esoteric.
----------
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 11/3/2003
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heidi
--- In [email protected], "catherine aceto"
<aceto3@v...> wrote:
to have it around the house all the time. When the kids have money,
they buy candy, they eat the candy...no comment from me. Go for it.
Same with the Halloween candy this year. It was gone in a day, pretty
much. Not a problem. I don't buy candy and have it around, but as a
rule, I also don't buy processed foods, not even frozen fries, not
even thrift store bread. BUT, it isn't set in stone by any stretch.
If I find frozen fries that are cheaper than buying whole potatoes
and fricasseeing them my own self, and fries sounds good, I'll buy em.
Usually, if a kid is along to the grocery store and they ask for
something, I get it. But one thing I am trying to do as their mom is
show them that you don't have to do frozen fries; you CAN cut up a
potato and make them your own self.
being caused by budget than by philosophy -- they were not
controlling people in general), I would SOO have preferred to have
had a limitless candy bowl (even with dollar store candy) rather than
having had it ingrained into my psyche the idea that candy is scarce
and wonderful and must be all eaten whenever presented. I am just
now managing to have a bite of something sweet and leave the rest -
a skill that my daughter, thankfully, has by instinct and has never
lost. It took me a long time to realize that it had nothing to do
with "will power" -- it had to do with "feast or famine" type
instincts.
whatever and whenever started putting on weight, too, and it's been a
issue my whole adult life, my weight. Anyway, just to let you know, I
do understand this feeling of "must all be eaten whenever presented."
Mine has more to do with a controlling mom, though. Budgetary
controls or not, she had something to say about every single thing I
ever tried to do, and not much of it to the tune of Well Done. Eating
what I wanted was my way of controlling my own self. But I also used
to love any and all candy, anything so long as it was sweet. My
tastes have refined a bit by now, so that I prefer certain things
over others. Will my kids start doing that at an earlier age, if it's
all presented equally, all the time? Probably. I'm seeing it with
computer games and my 10year old boy. He knows what he likes in that
arena, and shuns what he doesn't like. Will my kids eventually figure
out that some candy is worth it and some isn't, even if I don't have
a full candy bowl in the house? Probably.
It is a fact of life in our family right now, though: tight budget.
Living in the boonies. Natural/whole foods/Granola for a mom. If the
kids wanted to supply a bottomless candy bowl...go for it. It's their
house, too.
is still here, but getting low and I dunno if I'll replenish or not.
blessigns, HeidiC
<aceto3@v...> wrote:
> Hmm....my initial responses:But I don't see it as a limit, per se, as much as my preferring not
>
> Is your instinct not to put out candy the same instinct that led
>you to put out homemade toffee and tell you kids they could not eat
>it? While you describe that as "controlling" and something that you
>would never go back to -- is the limit on candy in general
>different? I'm genuinely asking.
to have it around the house all the time. When the kids have money,
they buy candy, they eat the candy...no comment from me. Go for it.
Same with the Halloween candy this year. It was gone in a day, pretty
much. Not a problem. I don't buy candy and have it around, but as a
rule, I also don't buy processed foods, not even frozen fries, not
even thrift store bread. BUT, it isn't set in stone by any stretch.
If I find frozen fries that are cheaper than buying whole potatoes
and fricasseeing them my own self, and fries sounds good, I'll buy em.
Usually, if a kid is along to the grocery store and they ask for
something, I get it. But one thing I am trying to do as their mom is
show them that you don't have to do frozen fries; you CAN cut up a
potato and make them your own self.
>candy (and I think my parents would have described the limits more as
> As one who took years to unlearn the effects of being limited as to
being caused by budget than by philosophy -- they were not
controlling people in general), I would SOO have preferred to have
had a limitless candy bowl (even with dollar store candy) rather than
having had it ingrained into my psyche the idea that candy is scarce
and wonderful and must be all eaten whenever presented. I am just
now managing to have a bite of something sweet and leave the rest -
a skill that my daughter, thankfully, has by instinct and has never
lost. It took me a long time to realize that it had nothing to do
with "will power" -- it had to do with "feast or famine" type
instincts.
>As a teenager, when I had more money at my disposal, I started eating
whatever and whenever started putting on weight, too, and it's been a
issue my whole adult life, my weight. Anyway, just to let you know, I
do understand this feeling of "must all be eaten whenever presented."
Mine has more to do with a controlling mom, though. Budgetary
controls or not, she had something to say about every single thing I
ever tried to do, and not much of it to the tune of Well Done. Eating
what I wanted was my way of controlling my own self. But I also used
to love any and all candy, anything so long as it was sweet. My
tastes have refined a bit by now, so that I prefer certain things
over others. Will my kids start doing that at an earlier age, if it's
all presented equally, all the time? Probably. I'm seeing it with
computer games and my 10year old boy. He knows what he likes in that
arena, and shuns what he doesn't like. Will my kids eventually figure
out that some candy is worth it and some isn't, even if I don't have
a full candy bowl in the house? Probably.
It is a fact of life in our family right now, though: tight budget.
Living in the boonies. Natural/whole foods/Granola for a mom. If the
kids wanted to supply a bottomless candy bowl...go for it. It's their
house, too.
> Obviously, you should find and do what works for you -- but sinceyou put it out there, these are my thoughts.
>Thanks, Cat. I appreciate the input. At this point, the candy bowl
> -Cat
is still here, but getting low and I dunno if I'll replenish or not.
blessigns, HeidiC
>Candy Bowl
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Heidi
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 9:11 AM
> Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Instincts and The Bottomless
>recent
>
> The threads on limits and showering and chores, along with the
> post about following one's instincts and not always comingto "the
> experts"... have struck a chord with me.
>
Heidi
>out
> Me too.
> The thing I keep thinking about is that the kids WILL have the
> equivalent of a bottomless candy bowl when they're old enough to be
> from under parental control and have their own money. Itscalled "the
> world." I can stop in and buy all the candy I want any time I wantit
> now. That's a reality that those people Heidi talked about who onlythe
> "feast" once in a while didn't have to deal with - they didn't have
> opportunity to have candy every time they turned around. Heidi youcan
> make the world seem like that in her own house, for a few years,but it
> won't last long. I'd suggest taking a slightly more realistic viewof
> the real world we live in now.Hi Pam
I did think of this:if we lived on the Solomon Islands, we'd feast a
few times a year, due as much to paucity as anything else. But, on
the Islands, when a kid exits the hut, he has all the food on the
Island available to him. When my kids "exit the hut," today, THIS
day, right now, whatever comes their way, they can have it. If
someone offers them candy...sure; if they have money to buy
candy...go for it. I don't say "Sorry. No."
The kids' candy is limited only insofar as I am able to afford it or
feel good about keeping the bowl filled. They are limited by the same
factors that limit the whole family: we buy what is in budget, pretty
much. I don't try to limit them outside my own purview. If I buy
Special Dark chocolate, I share it. My hubby shares his Snicker bars
when he gets them (on special, three for a dollar).
>time
> On the other hand, we don't have a candy bowl sitting out all the
> - I don't think anybody thought that was some kind of requirement -Yes! that's what has had to sink in for me, too. Going by my own
> just one way of loosening up.
>
instincts, not running to "the experts" (as fine a bunch of experts
as you all are ;)...for every little thing. A candy bowl sitting out
sounds like a three or four times per year thing for this family.
> -pamThanks pam...blessings, HeidiC
pam sorooshian
On Nov 10, 2003, at 10:42 AM, Heidi wrote:
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> But I don't see it as a limit, per se, as much as my preferring notWhat was your reason for wanting to try the no-limits experiment?
> to have it around the house all the time.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Heidi
Hi Pam!
I have a friend whose way with her kids, and her kids, seem to belie
what I read here. IOW, she is much more in charge of everything they
do, pushing them and giving them assignments and making them do
things. Her kids don't turn into monsters when she isn't around,
either. They are impressive people with kind hearts who love her very
much. She governs them tightly and lets them grow into self-
government in a quite "traditional" way, and it seems to work
extremely well. They are kids whom other kids as well as adults like
to be with, sort of like the kids I hear described on this board, yet
they haven't been unschooled by anyone's definition.
So, she hasn't had a limitless candy policy at her house. They have
some, and she doesn't say no when they get a piece, yet, the candy in
the little dish on her kitchen counter sits all day, every day. The
kids pretty much leave it alone. TV and computer are similar; they
have both, but my kids are drawn to it like a magnet...her kids can
take it or leave it...they've never gone through a phase of computer
games as their main free time activity, nor have they gone through a
consume all the candy in sight phase...
According to what I was reading at the time I decided to try the
candy bowl experiment, it is limits that make kids crave (the candy
and eat it all gone) (Insert any "forbidden" item for candy), but my
friend's home, a "tight ship" for SURE, would not bear that out.
There I see a house where there are limits, yet the kids don't go
nuts on the candy.
and so I wonder what REALLY causes kids to not crave it. Is it the
fact that she pours herself into them, 100%+? Keeps them very busy
all the time, so they have many interests everywhere in the city and
they get satiated with experiences?...because in her case, it isn't
unlimited supply.
anyway. Something tells me successful homeschooling, whether school-
at-home or relaxed or radical unschooling, has more to do with
parental involvement and enjoyment of their kids, than any other
thing. My friend is able to use more traditional, parent controlled
styles of homeschooling and still enjoy her kids.
blessings, HeidiC
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
I have a friend whose way with her kids, and her kids, seem to belie
what I read here. IOW, she is much more in charge of everything they
do, pushing them and giving them assignments and making them do
things. Her kids don't turn into monsters when she isn't around,
either. They are impressive people with kind hearts who love her very
much. She governs them tightly and lets them grow into self-
government in a quite "traditional" way, and it seems to work
extremely well. They are kids whom other kids as well as adults like
to be with, sort of like the kids I hear described on this board, yet
they haven't been unschooled by anyone's definition.
So, she hasn't had a limitless candy policy at her house. They have
some, and she doesn't say no when they get a piece, yet, the candy in
the little dish on her kitchen counter sits all day, every day. The
kids pretty much leave it alone. TV and computer are similar; they
have both, but my kids are drawn to it like a magnet...her kids can
take it or leave it...they've never gone through a phase of computer
games as their main free time activity, nor have they gone through a
consume all the candy in sight phase...
According to what I was reading at the time I decided to try the
candy bowl experiment, it is limits that make kids crave (the candy
and eat it all gone) (Insert any "forbidden" item for candy), but my
friend's home, a "tight ship" for SURE, would not bear that out.
There I see a house where there are limits, yet the kids don't go
nuts on the candy.
and so I wonder what REALLY causes kids to not crave it. Is it the
fact that she pours herself into them, 100%+? Keeps them very busy
all the time, so they have many interests everywhere in the city and
they get satiated with experiences?...because in her case, it isn't
unlimited supply.
anyway. Something tells me successful homeschooling, whether school-
at-home or relaxed or radical unschooling, has more to do with
parental involvement and enjoyment of their kids, than any other
thing. My friend is able to use more traditional, parent controlled
styles of homeschooling and still enjoy her kids.
blessings, HeidiC
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
>not
> On Nov 10, 2003, at 10:42 AM, Heidi wrote:
>
> > But I don't see it as a limit, per se, as much as my preferring
> > to have it around the house all the time.
>
> What was your reason for wanting to try the no-limits experiment?
>
> -pam
> National Home Education Network
> <www.NHEN.org>
> Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
> through information, networking and public relations.
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/10/03 6:15:51 PM, bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
<< The kids' candy is limited only insofar as I am able to afford it or
feel good about keeping the bowl filled. >>
What makes the mom feel good has been used for lots of child-limiting things
over the years, though. Just in keeping with the idea of experimenting with a
different mode of parenting, if the moms say "I can only do what I feel good
about," then lots of moms can only feel good using a curriculum and making
their kids sit like the moms want them to sit and eat exactly the way the moms
tell them to eat (my mom had lots of ways to sit and eat, and they were
non-negotiable).
Sandra
<< The kids' candy is limited only insofar as I am able to afford it or
feel good about keeping the bowl filled. >>
What makes the mom feel good has been used for lots of child-limiting things
over the years, though. Just in keeping with the idea of experimenting with a
different mode of parenting, if the moms say "I can only do what I feel good
about," then lots of moms can only feel good using a curriculum and making
their kids sit like the moms want them to sit and eat exactly the way the moms
tell them to eat (my mom had lots of ways to sit and eat, and they were
non-negotiable).
Sandra
Heidi
The difference being, letting their brains soak up what they need,
and learn from life, has an instinctual "right" feel to it. Having
candy always available as "another snack to choose from" doesn't.
It goes against my instincts.
blessings, HeidiC
and learn from life, has an instinctual "right" feel to it. Having
candy always available as "another snack to choose from" doesn't.
It goes against my instincts.
blessings, HeidiC
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/10/03 6:15:51 PM, bunsofaluminum60@h...
writes:
>
> << The kids' candy is limited only insofar as I am able to afford
it or
>
> feel good about keeping the bowl filled. >>
>
> What makes the mom feel good has been used for lots of child-
limiting things
> over the years, though. Just in keeping with the idea of
experimenting with a
> different mode of parenting, if the moms say "I can only do what I
feel good
> about," then lots of moms can only feel good using a curriculum and
making
> their kids sit like the moms want them to sit and eat exactly the
way the moms
> tell them to eat (my mom had lots of ways to sit and eat, and they
were
> non-negotiable).
>
> Sandra