J. Stauffer

<<Aren't All Saints part of the church?>>

May I suggest you research St. Brigid

Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 7:45 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Digest Number 4173


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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are 25 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: Amy /taking the plunge
> From: "sonyacurti" <jcurtielectric@...>
> 2. Re: Antiquity and getting facts clearly clear
> From: "Heidi" <bunsofaluminum60@...>
> 3. Re: Explaining Unschooling (also an intro)
> From: "Kelli Traaseth" <tktraas@...>
> 4. Re: Re: on candy and other limits
> From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
> 5. Scott
> From: "Penn Acres" <pennacres@...>
> 6. Re: Limits/showering
> From: SandraDodd@...
> 7. Re: Limits
> From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
> 8. Re: Nearly two years after TV limits removed
> From: Gary & Lisa Williams <glmnw@...>
> 9. Re: Limits
> From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
> 10. Re: HR 2732
> From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
> 11. Re: on candy and other limits
> From: "Heidi" <bunsofaluminum60@...>
> 12. Re: I Am SO Cool!!!
> From: Betsy <ecsamhill@...>
> 13. Re: Limits/showering
> From: tuckervill2@...
> 14. Re: Limits/showering
> From: tuckervill2@...
> 15. Re: Limits/showering
> From: Betsy <ecsamhill@...>
> 16. Re: Re: on candy and other limits
> From: Betsy <ecsamhill@...>
> 17. Re: Re: Limits/showering
> From: "The Scanlons" <scanlon36@...>
> 18. Re: Limits/showering
> From: "Kelli Traaseth" <tktraas@...>
> 19. Re: Limits/showering
> From: "Kelli Traaseth" <tktraas@...>
> 20. Re: Limits/showering
> From: "Mary" <mummy124@...>
> 21. Re: Limits/showering
> From: "Marjorie Kirk" <mkirk@...>
> 22. Re: Re: on candy and other limits
> From: Andrea <andrea@...>
> 23. Re: Question
> From: CelticFrau@...
> 24. Re: Re: Three-in-one: Digest #4163, Trinity, and Driver's
License
> From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
> 25. Re: Antiquity and getting facts clearly clear
> From: "The Scanlons" <scanlon36@...>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 18:42:02 -0000
> From: "sonyacurti" <jcurtielectric@...>
> Subject: Re: Amy /taking the plunge
>
> --- In [email protected], "sonyacurti"
> <jcurtielectric@m...> wrote:
>
> I'm not quite sure why my whole post didn't get posted before but
> I'll try to put it through to Amy once more to see if it works
> Sonya
>
>
>
>
> **********************************************************
> > Hi Amy,
> > I also had doubts in the beginning.If I could do it all over again
> I
> > would just be with my son and NOT concentrate on school so much
> but
> > bonding and connecting instead. We get dissconnected from our kids
> > when they are in school.I think once you get the connection the
> fun
> > begins and the journey happens - natrually. Naturally is the
> > keyword - I was trying to do school things when I first got my son
> > home out of fear. This is my second year and it's more relaxing
> > because we just live and have fun. I would describe it as a way
> of
> > life. I still tell the school oh yeah he is reading and doing
> math
> > just to shut them up - but in our home and in my heart I know
> > everything will happen all natrually :) I let my son guide and
> > direct me I listen to him carefully for what he desires to know
> > about. That is what I'm doing for myself now as an adult and what
> a
> > gift it is to be able to do it as a child with the help of your
> > parents. I have let go of all my fears of the video game thing -
> I
> > never wanted to buy one for fear that he would play all day and
> not
> > learn. Well guess what he plays all day and still learns. I
> thought
> > how will he learn how to read and I find that he is asking "what
> > does this say - and that ??" The wheels are turning for him
> because
> > it is something he wants. He does math in his own way and we play
> > lots of games. You have fun and your together but theres great
> > learning involved in it. That is the beauty of being home you have
> > time to do what you love and why shouldn't you.He does what he
> loves
> > and I do what I love and then we do what we love to do together :)
> > Theres many lessons to be learned in life - everything is a
> learning
> > exsperience. Everything - moving to a new home and remodeling
> which
> > is what we did our first year of home school LOL... Your son might
> > be feeding on your fear ... I don't know but I think my son use to
> > feel mine. Now I see he is more relaxed now that I am. He also
> > sees me explain my philosopy to other people. I also tell him not
> to
> > worry about others and what they think because you have to do
> whats
> > right for yourself. They do not live our life and we don't owe
> them
> > ANY explanations.
> > Your doing the right thing Amy. Love, Live and learn and be happy.
> > Connect and know that everything works out - natrually :)
> > Sonya
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 19:04:43 -0000
> From: "Heidi" <bunsofaluminum60@...>
> Subject: Re: Antiquity and getting facts clearly clear
>
> --- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 11/7/03 6:54:01 AM, bunsofaluminum60@h... writes:
> >
> > << If there's a discrepancy between documents about Jesus'
> >
> > life, and one of the documents is older...the older document is
> >
> > trusted over the newer one. That's how it is with all ancient
> >
> > writings.
> >
> > >>
> >
> > That's not how historiography works in general. A newer biography
> is often
> > trusted over an older one, and history is written for specific
> purposes and
> > different purposes by different historians, so you get different
> slants.
>
> If you wanted to find out about Grant's life, would you rather read a
> biography written today by a historian who researched Grant's life,
> or would you read Grant's memoirs?
>
> BUT! what if something came to light that claimed to be a portion of
> Grant's memoirs that had never been seen before, but mentions things
> that dispute all other primary sources? Would the historian trust the
> newer stuff that goes against all other sources, including the
> memoirs from the pen of the man, or would he let the newer stuff go
> as not reliable?
>
> What if Grant never wrote anything? Maybe someone close to him, who
> saw what happened, would be a reliable primary source? If a newer
> biography on Grant were published, and the historian cited sources
> that have been deemed unreliable by authoritative Grant scholars?
> What if the new biography mentions many events that are nowhere else
> mentioned? Do you believe the new biography if it doesn't check out
> with sources closer to the actual man?
>
> IMO, the older documents (closer to the source) are going to be
> closer to the true events, and thus more trustworthy.
>
>
> > <<I would say that the main discrepancy about what books are in the
> >
> > canon is between having the apocrypha or not. >>
> >
> > That's a modern view. A historical view needs to see things all
> along the
> > way. There are many Bible-worshipping protestants (Baptist and
> thereabout) who
> > have no idea there are other books in the Catholic Bible, or how
> they got in,
> > or why they got out.
>
> Your point? I'm confident that I don't fall in the category of "have
> no idea"
>
> > <<Any objective scholar will acknowledge that Biblical
> documentation is
> >
> > among the best, if not THE best, in existence.>>
> >
> > A scholar who raises a question will show he's not objective?
>
> absolutely not. There's nothing wrong with raising questions AT ALL.
> Objectivity would be searching all sources, both higher criticism
> (which group disbelieves in supernatural or miraculous)and the
> scholars who do allow for the supernatural or miraculous. (don't know
> if that group has a name or label for their methods.)
>
> If a researcher wants answers to his questions, best ask everyone he
> can find who might know anything about the subject, basing his
> research criteria on quality of scholarship NOT on doubting OR
> believing that the Bible is reliable. Even scholars who are inclined
> to the higher criticism camp, acknowledge the extremely high level of
> quality of Biblical documentation.
>
>
> > <<Okay, but my point was to try and refute the notion which is
> widely
> >
> > taught, that "all holidays celebrated originally by the Catholic
> >
> > church have their origins in pagan traditions." >>
> >
> > What I think people mean when they say that is that the holidays
> celebrated
> > in the United States have pagan origins concerning the traditions
> with which
> > they are celebrated.
>
> You mean, "The things we do traditionally TO celebrate these
> holidays." Right? Like lighting the Yule log or whatever...???
>
> Okay, I think I get that now. :\ I think. But there still is a panic
> in evangelicaldom about following practices that originate in pagan
> tradition. They don't want to do things that are not commanded nor
> recommended in the Bible, but it is a misguided attempt at Christian
> living, IMO.
>
>
>
> And the only generally "celebrated religious holidays"
> > here outside Thanksgiving and 4th of July are Christmas and
> Easter.
>
> Well, T'giving is a religious feast day, in that giving thanks to God
> was part of the intent of The First Thanksgiving, but it is also
> American, not Catholic, in origin. Goes to show, the puritans weren't
> against feasting and celebrating, per se. Just didn't like the
> Catholic versions of things.
>
> and of course 4th of July is a United States thing, not universal.
>
> Valentine's
> > Day was a medieval Saint's Day (most days were, and still are in
> the Catholic
> > church and for purposes of baby-naming and the particulars of the
> daily
> > mass), and Hallowe'en, but the traditions don't have to do with
> church or Jesus,
>
> I disagree. If a day is named after a saint...well, isn't a saint a
> part of the Church? Aren't "All Saints" a part of the church? Then,
> Valentine's and Hallowe'en have to do with the church. And the church
> has to do with Jesus...
>
> blessings, HeidiC
>
>
> > Looking at all the history of religion through a 2003 American
> Protestant
> > lens is too distorting. It's not at all objective.
> >
> > Sandra
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:32:09 -0600
> From: "Kelli Traaseth" <tktraas@...>
> Subject: Re: Explaining Unschooling (also an intro)
>
> And I think I am the only Kelli with an * i *, :)
>
> Although now that I think of it, there was one around last year.
Havn't heard from her in a while tho'.
>
> Kelli~
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tia Leschke
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 11:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Explaining Unschooling (also an
intro)
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >And I'll put "in IL" after mine, no biggie. We have a lot of
variations on
> >Kelly here, too. And two Tia's.
>
> Haven't heard from the other Tia for a while. I think she left.
> Tia
>
>
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> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:43:31 -0800
> From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: on candy and other limits
>
>
> On Nov 5, 2003, at 8:05 PM, Tia Leschke wrote:
>
> >> << I have a feeling that if people try the "full candy bowl" as an
> >> "experiment " and the kids pick up on the idea that this is just a
> >> temporary thing- the
> >> -"eat it now or it will be gone again" process might kick in and no
> >> one will
> >> have any idea if it is possible for their family -not the parents and
> >> certainly not the kids. >>
>
>
> This is one of those times, too, where the experimenters have to
> remember that what is important is what they "do" as much as what they
> don't do.
>
> Just having "no limits" is NOT what we're talking about here and never
> has been (regarding schooling OR the candy bowl). It is far more
> important what you do than that you don't set limits. The point is you
> won't NEED to set limits if you do other things instead. In a way,
> setting limits could be just thought of as laziness and inattentiveness
> on the part of the parents.
>
> So - for Heidi and the other experimenters - you need to remember that
> there is a whole lot more to it.
> You have to be willing to make food for the kids to eat - food that
> they like - food that appeals to them - food that is available and
> ready when they feel the urge to eat. You have to keep your eyes on
> their behavior and their attitude - and learn to recognize when they're
> getting a little low - that their blood sugar might be dropping. You
> have to learn to go in and slice up an apple and sprinkle it with some
> cinnamon and put it and some cheese chunks on a plate and just slide it
> over in front of them when they are involved in an activity. You have
> to learn to make some little finger sandwiches and have them ready in
> baggies so the kids can grab them out of the refrigerator. You have to
> have cereal to use as a quick munchie. Etc.
>
> If candy and cookies and things like that are sitting around and
> available, that's the first thing people will grab if they're a little
> hungry and need a snack or if they sense their blood sugar dropping.
> You have to have appealing-to-kids and quick-to-grab food be as easy to
> get to as the candy bowl.
>
> As kids get older, they will go in and fix their own real food - they
> will be used to having something more substantial than a pile of candy
> when they are hungry and that won't be so appealing.
>
>
> National Home Education Network
> <www.NHEN.org>
> Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
> through information, networking and public relations.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:06:29 -0700
> From: "Penn Acres" <pennacres@...>
> Subject: Scott
>
> Your unschooling "tract" cards? sounds kewl-have to have a better look at
your site asap.
> prob. deleted your unschooling bio-how old are your kids?
> I am so rabidly anti- proselytizing that I wouldnt buy them to hand out
at "Halloween" but I think something in "comic book style" for kids to
get a kick out of the ideas inherent in unschooling might be a real treat.
the "anti-public school" would be for Me! and the chosen few...
> grace
> In the frigid Canadian Rockies where it was -18 C last night-again!!! and
I am going out to the kennel so the girls can help me flea bathe a cat..
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:04:05 EST
> From: SandraDodd@...
> Subject: Re: Limits/showering
>
>
> In a message dated 11/7/03 12:38:29 PM, jrossedd@... writes:
>
> << Maybe several of us could use some encouraging perspective from
> unschooling moms whose sons USED to be like this and aren't anymore! >>
>
> Kirby and Marty used to be like that and aren't anymore.
>
> They take a shower every day because they want to.
>
> There were times when I would just go in and open the windows in Kirby's
room
> and aim a fan out to vent the boy-smell, but I didn't do it hatefully,
just
> gently.
>
> Sometimes I'd ask one of them to change his shirt if we were going
somewhere,
> and he would. Sometimes I'd say "If you're going with [whoever], maybe
you
> should plan enough time to take a shower." I didn't say "If you don't
take a
> shower you can't go."
>
> The time came when they started smelling their friends. And there were
jokes
> about the smell of the gaming shop (MANY teen boys, no windows), and at
the
> anime convention where Kirby goes, he spoke on a panel this year about how
to
> have the best experience at a con, and one of their points was take a
shower.
> <g>
>
> Maybe it's partly a boy thing, and partly a dweebish thing. In my
(limited,
> as to boys) experience, jockish boys are more likely to take showers than
> sedentary kinds of boys, but for while early in puberty they all seem to
need them
> more.
>
> Another thing worth thinking about is that it might be one of the triggers
> for separation of mothers and sons. We have a lot of other teenaged boys
here,
> and though sometimes I've smelled the scent of one, they never stank, but
my
> own boys did (to me). I've talked to other moms about that too, and
they'd
> not had any complaints about my boys, but thought their own boys needed a
shower
> QUICKLY.
>
>
> Sandra
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 12:19:13 -0800
> From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
> Subject: Re: Limits
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2003, at 5:58 AM, Halo5964@... wrote:
>
> > Putting that one bite of broccoli on their plate and telling them to
> > try it again
> > because one day I'm sure you are going to like it bull sounds like a
> > conflict
> > with not instilling limits. Does that make sense?
>
> I have memories of gagging on string beans once, when my dad insisted
> that I take at least one bite. That almost never happened at my house -
> my mom wouldn't have allowed it and my dad wasn't usually that way
> either. But it did at least that one time and I have very very clear
> memories of how it felt. I think my dad was irritated that I wouldn't
> even try them, because he really thought I'd like them if I'd try them
> - they were fresh (that was in the mid-50s and we mostly ate canned
> veggies then so fresh was a treat).
>
> A gentle urge to encourage them to try something is one thing, but
> putting something on their plate and insisting they put it INTO their
> mouth and chew and swallow is ....something else. ICK!!!
>
> I wouldn't put food on their plates without asking if they want it and
> how much of it they want.
>
> -pam
>
>
> National Home Education Network
> <www.NHEN.org>
> Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
> through information, networking and public relations.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:19:14 -0600
> From: Gary & Lisa Williams <glmnw@...>
> Subject: Re: Nearly two years after TV limits removed
>
> Just another comment or two on the limiting topic...I just never had any
> limits on much of anything and so my children never learned to think that
> something was better than something else. Like cake vs. carrots at dinner
> or games vs. TV for recreation. I never limited anything to make
something
> else look better. "If you don't eat those carrots, you can't have the
cake."
> In fact, when they were very small and noticed that I was making something
> yummy and got excited, I'd put it right on their plate with the meat and
> potatoes. Sometimes they would eat the cake first and then the meat. I
> wanted them to see/understand that sometimes you want to eat cake and
> sometimes you want the steak. Sometimes you want to read a book and
> sometimes you want to watch TV. Sometimes you want to ride your bike and
> sometimes you want to stay in and color. Neither choice is neccessarily
> "bad" and your particular behavior doesn't make one thing better than
> another. My husband has stories of falling asleep at the table because he
> didn't finish his dinner and couldn't get down until he had done so. His
> mom tries to withhold dessert from our kids if they don't "clean their
> plate." I always override and "spoil" the kids! Geesh!
> Lisa in IL
>
>
>
> > on Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:42:31 -0800
> > "nellebelle" <nellebelle@... wrote:>
>
> > >>>> This is a child who can watch TV whenever she wishes. When the
> entire family is home, she is much more likely to vote for playing a game
> than watching TV.>>>
> >
> > I didn't mean to suggest that playing a game is always better than
> watching TV. I just wanted to put this out for those who are new to the
> idea of not limiting TV. It is one more example of a kid who does not
have
> TV limits and does choose to do other things besides watch TV.
> >
> > Mary Ellen
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 12:27:31 -0800
> From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
> Subject: Re: Limits
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2003, at 6:28 AM, Genant2@... wrote:
>
> > If I
> > go alone I always ask dh and the boys if they want me to pick up
> > anything for
> > them while I am there.
>
> I usually call from the grocery store and ask, while I'm there, did
> anybody think of something they want? They usually remember something.
>
>
> > I have never made them eat anything. They eat what
> > they want, when they want and how much they want and I am usually
> > there to help
> > them fix something if they need help.
>
> IF we sat down to a mom-cooked full dinner, I wouldn't get up and make
> them something else right in the middle of it. I'd get them something
> quick - a piece of bread or an apple - if they didn't like that night's
> "experiment" (which is what my cooking always is <G>), but I wouldn't
> really "prepare" something else. I also didn't get offended if they
> jumped up and made a cup-of-noodles or a cheese quesadilla or a bowl of
> cereal or something. I'd be glad to see they could just find an
> alternative when the main program didn't work out for them.
>
> -pam
> National Home Education Network
> <www.NHEN.org>
> Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
> through information, networking and public relations.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 12:33:47 -0800
> From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
> Subject: Re: HR 2732
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2003, at 6:48 AM, piper1 wrote:
>
> > Just wondering how folks are responding to the info provided in the
> > last 2 issues of Home Education magazine, (sept-oct and nov-dec 2003,
> > Vol 20, numbers 5 and 6,) regarding Federal Homeschool Legislation,
> > proposed bill HR 2732? Any concerns, worries? Thanks, L.L.
>
> This list is not for discussion of political issues or concerns, but
> for unschooling discussion. However, the NHEN forums are available for
> those who wish to read more and talk about these bills:
> <http://www.nhen.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=454&whichpage=9>.
>
> NHEN is the one place where you can hear from both supporters and
> detractors and then make up your own mind.
>
> -pam sorooshian
> National Home Education Network
> <www.NHEN.org>
> Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
> through information, networking and public relations.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 22:37:00 -0000
> From: "Heidi" <bunsofaluminum60@...>
> Subject: Re: on candy and other limits
>
> Right. We always have had a fruit bowl out and available, and the
> fruit disappears pretty quick, too. I have all kinds of foods
> available all the time, just making the candy available in addition
> to what has pretty much been here all along. I could be more on top
> of keeping carrot and celery sticks cut and ready to eat, but the
> kids have never been bashful about grabbing a carrot and peeling it
> to munch, and I imagine they'll be doing as much of that as they
> always have.
>
>
> Now, our first 36 hours of Bottomless Candy Bowl. Because it was all
> chocolate, I've already had requests for more variety...check...and
> have refilled it three or four times, and people are grabbing a piece
> or two as they pass by. I've also requested that wrappers don't get
> left on surfaces or on the floor. It isn't all gone; people aren't
> just sitting with a pocketful and eating it as fast as they can shove
> it in their mouths. They're having a piece here and there throughout
> the day, much as they do with pieces of fruit, cheese, muffins, and
> other snack stuff.
>
>
> HeidiC
>
> > So - for Heidi and the other experimenters - you need to remember
> that
> > there is a whole lot more to it.
> > You have to be willing to make food for the kids to eat - food that
> > they like - food that appeals to them - food that is available and
> > ready when they feel the urge to eat. You have to keep your eyes on
> > their behavior and their attitude - and learn to recognize when
> they're
> > getting a little low - that their blood sugar might be dropping. >
>
>
> >
> > National Home Education Network
> > <www.NHEN.org>
> > Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
> > through information, networking and public relations.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:39:22 -0700
> From: Betsy <ecsamhill@...>
> Subject: Re: I Am SO Cool!!!
>
>
> **He hustled through the hoops as fast as he could, and got that work
> done...but I had to wonder, what did he learn? **
>
> He learned that the freedom he has at your house is so worthwhile that
> he's willing to put a lot of effort to get the payoff of having more
> time at your house. ;-)
>
> So, okay he was doing his assigned work in a slapdash fashion. I don't
> think doing it very carefully and ponderously would have been a great
> thing either. <g>
>
> If more kids had the opportunity to speed up their "school day" and have
> a life afterwards, that would be a good thing. (But not as good as
> unschooling all day, which I think was your underlying point.)
>
> Betsy
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:45:30 EST
> From: tuckervill2@...
> Subject: Re: Limits/showering
>
> In a message dated 11/7/2003 9:04:52 AM Central Standard Time,
> tktraas@... writes:
> My son is 10, how old is yours?
> ~~~
> Just turned 10 on Wednesday!
>
> He does like to dress nice ("cool"), but could care less about stinking up
> the joint. I know someday he's going to take 2 showers a day like his 19
year
> old brother did. I just sometimes wish it was now. lol.
>
> Tuck
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:55:42 EST
> From: tuckervill2@...
> Subject: Re: Limits/showering
>
> In a message dated 11/7/2003 1:44:46 PM Central Standard Time,
> scanlon36@... writes:
> What about baths for your boys?
> ~~~
> Another developmental thing is fears. He's afraid of being in a room by
> himself if there's not a light or a TV or music on. He wants easy access
to me or
> dad, too. Being in the shower or bathtub is creepy for him right now.
When
> he does shower, he doesn't want me in the bathroom, but he wants me to be
> right outside the door, in my room.
>
> Ten was really hard on my other sons in the fear department. They had
deep
> thoughts about death and dying and a higher power and had to talk about
them
> late at night. I was just consoling a friend whose 10 yo won't spend the
night
> for Will's birthday because he's afraid. He's never had this problem
before.
>
> Tuck
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:03:09 -0700
> From: Betsy <ecsamhill@...>
> Subject: Re: Limits/showering
>
>
>
> ** Maybe several of us could use some encouraging perspective from
> unschooling moms whose sons USED to be like this and aren't anymore! JJ
> **
>
> Hi, JJ
>
> I'm basically in the same boat with you with my 9 year old. I think
> that perhaps one's nose becomes quickly accustomed to one's own odors,
> so that a stink that others can smell is just unnoticeable to the boy
> exuding it.
>
> I'm trying to just be lighthearted and teasing about it, but I don't
> want my son to have to hear from other kids that he smells bad.
>
> I will work on trying to keep the tub nicer. (I bathe without my
> glasses, so I notice a lot less than everyone else, regrettably.)
>
> Betsy
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:03:18 -0700
> From: Betsy <ecsamhill@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: on candy and other limits
>
>
>
> **You have to be willing to make food for the kids to eat - food that
> they like - food that appeals to them - food that is available and
> ready when they feel the urge to eat. You have to keep your eyes on
> their behavior and their attitude - and learn to recognize when they're
> getting a little low - that their blood sugar might be dropping. You
> have to learn to go in and slice up an apple and sprinkle it with some
> cinnamon and put it and some cheese chunks on a plate and just slide it
> over in front of them when they are involved in an activity. You have
> to learn to make some little finger sandwiches and have them ready in
> baggies so the kids can grab them out of the refrigerator. You have to
> have cereal to use as a quick munchie. Etc.**
>
> Hi, Pam -
>
> Thanks for taking the time to spell this out. It really does help.
>
> We've had beaucoup candy around this week, but not much yummy mealtime
> food prepared by me. I've got to fix this.
>
> My son had a small meltdown about food yesterday (after I beat him at a
> board game, which may have been part of the issue), so today at the
> store I concentrated more on what he wanted and less on what I approved
> of. (I usually do buy him what he wants, but on a budget and with some
> effort to avoid transfats.) Today he said "I had fun at the grocery
> store." (Imagine my surprise, chagrin, and resolution to make it more
> fun more often.)
>
> I got lucky and his favorite cereal, which is normally $5 per box, was
> on sale for $2.
>
> Betsy
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 19:24:49 -0000
> From: "The Scanlons" <scanlon36@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Limits/showering
>
> >
> > It's kind of discouraging to hear that the problem only developed
> > with puberty for many of your sons.
>
>
> I remember that my younger brother had the aversion to showers. Then,
after
> a few years of that, he did a 180 and you could never get the kid *out* of
> the shower. Many years later, after I married, I watched my husband's
much
> younger brother go through the same cycle. Seems to be starting a bit
> earlier with my son, but he's not so stinky just yet. It's just something
I
> expect and will get through.
>
> Sandy
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:37:09 -0600
> From: "Kelli Traaseth" <tktraas@...>
> Subject: Re: Limits/showering
>
> **My son is 10, how old is yours?**
> ~~~
> **Just turned 10 on Wednesday!**
>
>
> There ya go. Too funny, <g>
>
>
> **He does like to dress nice ("cool"),**
>
> Yeah, Alec too, he goes through phases. Like when we were in Mexico he
had to buy a necklace to wear and some types of pants he really likes. But
I guess I am glad that he's not too worried about his appearance right now.
Like what others will think and all that. He is definately his own person.
:)
>
>
> Kelli~
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tuckervill2@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 4:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Limits/showering
>
>
> In a message dated 11/7/2003 9:04:52 AM Central Standard Time,
> tktraas@... writes:
> My son is 10, how old is yours?
> ~~~
> Just turned 10 on Wednesday!
>
> He does like to dress nice ("cool"), but could care less about stinking
up
> the joint. I know someday he's going to take 2 showers a day like his
19 year
> old brother did. I just sometimes wish it was now. lol.
>
> Tuck
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:45:51 -0600
> From: "Kelli Traaseth" <tktraas@...>
> Subject: Re: Limits/showering
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tuckervill2@...
>
> **Another developmental thing is fears. He's afraid of being in a room
by
> himself if there's not a light or a TV or music on.**
>
> Wow, this is interesting. Maybe that's why Alec is sleeping in our
room at night. He just does not want to sleep by himself anymore. His
sister, who is 9, just decided she wanted her own room and here we have her
older bro who wants to sleep with Mom and Dad.
>
> I'm OK with it, I know it won't last. Its created a closeness between
us too that's really cool.
>
> Kelli~
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:50:51 -0500
> From: "Mary" <mummy124@...>
> Subject: Re: Limits/showering
>
> From: <AimeeL73@...>
>
> <<But hey, I only had to buy him three pairs of jeans because he wears
them
> over and over! I consider that to be a GOOD thing!>>
>
>
> My oldest daughter refuses to wear anything more than once and then it's
in
> the laundry. Except for shoes!!! You can imagine the laundry I have with a
> family of 6 and her doing school, work and social stuff!!!! It's at least
2
> full outfits a day for her. On days she works, it's 3.
>
>
> Mary B.
> http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:56:16 -0500
> From: "Marjorie Kirk" <mkirk@...>
> Subject: Re: Limits/showering
>
>
> > ~~~
> > Another developmental thing is fears. He's afraid of being in a room by
> > himself if there's not a light or a TV or music on. He wants easy
access
> to me or
> > dad, too. Being in the shower or bathtub is creepy for him right now.
> When
> > he does shower, he doesn't want me in the bathroom, but he wants me to
be
> > right outside the door, in my room.
> >
> >
> > Tuck
> >
>
>
> Have you tried taking a radio or tape player into the bathroom for him, so
> he can listen to music while he bathes? Or maybe pulling the shower
curtain
> closed, but leaving the bathroom door open so he can chat with you while
you
> are going about you business?
>
> marjorie
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 20:43:48 -0400
> From: Andrea <andrea@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: on candy and other limits
>
> At 11:43 AM 11/7/03 -0800, Pam wrote:
> >As kids get older, they will go in and fix their own real food - they
> >will be used to having something more substantial than a pile of candy
> >when they are hungry and that won't be so appealing.
>
> My favourite line from Simon (4), who eats just about everything, without
> restriction or force: He opened the fridge one day and peered in for a
> while, then asked me, "Don't we have any salad?"
>
> For people who are sensitive to sugar, I also used to crave sugar and
still
> do when I don't have enough protein. It took me a long time to figure this
> out even though I ate a high protein diet (100 grams a day) through my
> three pregnancies. I had been on a low fat diet from my early teens
because
> of my father's health concerns. I thought too much protein was bad. I now
> try to eat a gram of protein for every kilo of body weight - a kilo is
> about 2.2 lbs. If I eat less I find I crave sugar and other simple carbs.
>
> My sons knew this from their early days. A couple of days after halloween,
> with so much sugar and chips, both 11 and 8 year olds said they needed
some
> meat!
>
> Donna
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 20:09:42 EST
> From: CelticFrau@...
> Subject: Re: Question
>
> In a message dated 11/7/2003 11:40:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> Genant2@... writes:
> Take the mother aside or say something in the moment. And
> what to say??? Sometimes I have such a hard time finding the right words.
> ***************************************
> Personally, I'd leave it alone since it already happened. But, if it
happens
> again in your presence, you might add something nice to what she says,
sort
> of like set an example. She tells the kids, "Stop running." You could
then
> say, "Mrs. So & So didn't mean to sound mad (hint hint), but if you run,
you
> might knock down one of the smaller children." Maybe she'd get it without
you
> even having to put her on the spot.
>
> Nancy B. in WV
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:39:28 -0800
> From: pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Three-in-one: Digest #4163, Trinity, and Driver's
License
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2003, at 8:12 PM, Penne & Buddies wrote:
>
> > I finally figured out that the Digests were the source of many
> > replies, so decided the search engine was my best bet (thank
> > goodness Yahoo! finally added this feature!)
>
> Its not a very good search engine, though.
>
> IF you're someone who likes to go back and search the archives - you
> might want to save all the posts in your own mail program and use its
> search engine instead. Its a lot - but these days people often have
> huge storage capacity and email doesn't take up much space.
>
> -pam
> National Home Education Network
> <www.NHEN.org>
> Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
> through information, networking and public relations.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 22:42:54 -0000
> From: "The Scanlons" <scanlon36@...>
> Subject: Re: Antiquity and getting facts clearly clear
>
>
> > Well, technically contraception has already been banned by the Catholic
> > Church from the time dependable contraception came into being.
> >
>
> Actually, the Catholic Church has never ever ever accepted contraception,
> even when it was really lousy (still is...all those nasty hormones and
> things!). None of the other Christian religions accepted it, either,
until
> the 1930s. Martin Luther and John Calvin and some other big name
protestant
> reformer were all absolutely against it.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
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>
>
>